The Sam Hartman Story: Dream To Draft | An exclusive Interview

Because as I know, the business of the NFL and what I'm getting ready to go into, it's even more cutthroat than it's already is.

You already had become the, what, the leading touchdown thrower in the history of the acc?

Yeah, whatever. Something like that.

Yeah, something like that.

Something like that.

You know.

When things go south, we're like, oh, the fans are like, oh, we brought in this kid and we're paying him a million dollar. I'm like, no, you weren't. I promise you that you weren't. If I was making a million dollars, trust me, you would know.

Hey, we're here in South Carolina with former Demon Deacon, Notre Dame quarterback, all time ACC touchdown passing leader, Sam Hartman.

There we go.

Hey, I am Jeff Duden and we are with Sam Hartman on the home front. Welcome, Sam.

Well, appreciate you having me. It's. It's been a while since we've talked, and especially not in this setting, but excited. Excited to be here.

It's been a minute. It's been a big week for you. We're sitting here one day in 2024 before the NFL draft. Where are you going to watch it?

I'm going to be here.

Yeah.

I don't know if I'll be watching it early, I think. I mean, I know where I'm kind of slotted and what, what everything kind of holds for me in these next couple days. So I would say for me, the draft doesn't probably start until Friday. Saturday. Okay. Which is, you know, nothing. I'm too a shame to say. I think it's an unbelievable place to be, an unbelievable opportunity to just kind of put my name with the NFL draft and. But I'll be here. I'll be at home. I might be on the dock. Hopefully there's service down there. But, you know, just anticipating the call is just an incredible, incredible experience and be with my family, actually. Well, my dad won't be here. He will be golfing in Myrtle Beach. He. He was too nervous to sit around and wait at the phone, so he's decided that he's gonna do a boys trip.

You know what? That's probably not a bad idea.

No, not at all. Not at all.

All right, so you're on the dock. It's Friday afternoon. You hook into the fish of a lifetime and you're getting it near the dock. You see it and now the call comes in. Do you pick up the call or do you land the fish? Cause they'll call back.

That's a great question. I think I Can answer the call and land the fish would be probably my answer. I'd go, okay for both. I think you just, you know, you got to be. You got to try and keep the phone close so they don't hear the water splashing. Yeah. Get the fish in, let it kind of sit there and just say, I'd love to, coach. And then you got to make them.

Make them feel important.

Exactly. But that fish will get all the love it needs.

That's right. That's right. So I, I met you and you probably don't remember this when you were three years old and I was at a YMCA T ball league first practice and I had my five year old son Zach, your older brother Joe. They were on the same team. I pull up some grass next to this guy, Dr. Mark Hartman, and for the next 50 minutes I was interviewed by Dr. Hartman and we had just a great conversation. And I think you were there maybe rolling around in the grass or something like that. But for the people that don't know you, Sam, tell us, who is Sam Hartman?

Yeah, I would say probably the kid rolling in the grass is a pretty accurate description. I mean, it's, you know, from, from that moment and many moments prior to that have been quite the journey. You know, Zach, your son, and your whole entire family has played a pivotal role in, you know, what's gotten me to this point. So it's very cool to kind of, I guess, rekindle before kind of the next chapter opens. And, you know, it's an incredible, you know, really, it kind of goes back to the guy you talked about that interviewed you for 50 minutes and kind of drill sergeant me through this, you know, these past 24 years of my life. And, you know, it's a lot of just, you know, great people around me and great, you know, role models, coaches, teammates, you know, have impacted me and got me to this point. And I mean, it's. I would say the three words I've been saying throughout this entire process is resilient, experienced, and those two. And then on the kind of. The last part would be, you know, the determination factor. And I think, you know, resilience comes just through injuries, tough losses, bad breaks, right? Everybody's experienced them like you probably did when you were in college. And, you know, that resilience of bounce back and just keep fighting, never quitting, determination to just never quit. And it kind of bounces off. Resilience of my determination to keep playing. I was just talking to my dad before he left, and he's like, you remember sophomore Year college, when you lost a job and you were a second string quarterback at Wake Forest and you're like, you're thinking the world's over and you kind of bounce back from it. And then experience is just six years of college football that's been playing since I was five, probably was throwing a football when I was three next to you for the first time. And you know, those kind of things just, you know, really carried me through this whole process and, you know, have kind of gotten me to be sitting in the seat right here.

One thing that I think was an opportunity for you was because you had an older brother and we all did the basketball together, we did the football, we did the baseball together, that you were always, you were always good enough to play up with the older kids. So by virtue of that, you're playing with kids not only that are Joe's age, but you're playing with kids that maybe on the, you know, two or three or four years older than you. And you were a great, you always took the tough job, great catcher, had an accurate thrower since, you know, back in the Jeff days, and just a great athlete. I'm interested based on your experience. There's so many kids today that are growing up and some of them are going to be NFL prospects, NFL draft picks like yourself, but most of them aren't. What advice or what experience would you share with them as to what they can really truly get out of pursuing athletics in their, let's say, in their teens?

Yeah, I mean, I think like you, social media, I would say I'll start there. Has created this construct of life and how it should be and how it shouldn't be. And you know, a lot of you see, I can speak on football because I've played it for so long and you know, you see these different people and different guys getting offers and you know, there's a lot of publicity around it and there's seven on seven tournaments and there's all these different things that have created this culture of football that it's more showy, more flashy than it's ever been and everything's about celebrating and point at me. How many cameras can be on me, how many followers can I get, how many deals? And you can sit here and look at me and say, you're a hypocrite, your hair, all that stuff. But again, this is natural. Like, this is what I do, it's what I've been doing. Nothing changed other than I just haven't got a haircut in a while. But I think that that kind of has taken away the greatness of the game, greatness of sports, the team sport. And I think when NFL teams ask me, hey, why do you play? What's your why? My biggest why is my teammates. My biggest why is just being around a group of people that I have no other common interest in, no socioeconomics, whether it's their race, whether it's what they believe in, whether it's what they like to do with their free time, none of that in common. But for six years and then four years in high school and the many years before that, I had some of the greatest teammates and the greatest teams I've ever been a part of, and the great teams that I was a part of were the closest. And so, like all of that kind of being said, I think that that's something that you can get out of it. I mean, me and Zach, you know, our relationship, what was built over football, like, I don't even know if you know this. The reason I continue to play football was because of Zach.

No, I didn't.

So my freshman year, and this kind of leads into the question, like, adversity and why you play the sport my freshman year, that your son started over me as a, as a, as junior year. And you know, I came in, we were at South Lake Christian Academy, right, For. And you know, you're from kindergarten to ninth grade, you go to the school and you know, I'm expecting to be the guy, right. In middle school, I was good. I could play, I could throw. Going into summer, I'm, you know, playing well. I'm like in the mix. There's like three or four other quarterbacks and, you know, I'm getting reps. And then that first day of summer practice, I'm the fourth string quarterback playing jv. I ended up playing receiver on JV and was like a punch shield on the varsity team. And I'm like, what am I doing out here? And I never forget one of the linebackers hit me so hard one day in practice when I wasn't looking and cracked my visor. And I was like this, I'm done. I'm gonna go play baseball. Baseball. I don't get hit. I can do this. I hated football. I didn't want anything to do with it. This is not what I signed up for. The head coach didn't talk to me. Nobody talked to me other than Zach. And I remember like thinking, I'm just gonna create a. I have mono. I get my dad to sign me a note. I'll just be Done with it. I can quit, because then maybe I want to play next year, but I can't just quit and then come back.

Yeah.

Zach stopped me before I went into that, to the head coach's office. I had tears in my eyes because I'm like. He's like, what are you doing? I'm like, you know, like, I'm done. I'm quitting. We went to cookout, remember? To cookout. Right down the road. We got a milkshake, and he convinced me to play, continue to play, not to quit. And so from then, I mean, obviously.

And. And as a payback for that, you ended up just taking his job?

Well, somewhat. You know, we. He ended up coming back and win us that game, state championship. We still. I think that rings somewhere around here. Yeah, but, I mean, that's.

Well, he was just keeping it warm for you. I mean, the interesting thing about that season is he came home, like, with tears in his eyes after everything because he says, I don't want to play quarterback. You knew he didn't want to play it. He wasn't. I mean, he was a defensive guy, and. But, I mean, the coach just felt like. I think they had two other quarterbacks. One didn't come back. Somebody else. Something happened, and then they had nobody, and they just. They felt like Zach, with, you know, being a junior, could, like, just manage the game.

Exactly.

And not make mistakes. And that was one of the hardest things for him. But, like, everybody knew, like, you were gonna be the guy and. But it was. But that's an incredible story. Thank you for sharing that.

No, of course. And, I mean, I think that goes along with the teammates. Right. That's a part of it that those people and those guys kind of keep you in it and, you know, going through tough times. And I think, like, the second thing on it for, you know, the young guys out there is it just teaches you how to handle adversity. Like, let's think. I've almost died twice. I've lost a brother. I've lost. I've been the reason why we've lost, you know, games, eight championship games. And the only thing that's gotten me back to normalcy, gotten me back to reality, is football. And that's not for everybody. Right. Football's not a sport that everybody finds peace in and finds gratitude. But there's something out there that. Right for everyone, and I think that that would be my pitch to somebody is, like, whether it's football, whether it's badminton, whether it's painting porches, if you can Find peace and you can find, you know, a place of. This is what I love to do, then that's what you should do. But I always urge people to say, football for me is that. And it's. I can give you a hundred examples of it and like the story with your son. The game after my brother passed away, the. My teammates coming to see me when I'm in the hospital, right? Those things, if I'm just a normal person, like, that doesn't happen, that doesn't happen, this doesn't happen. And I'm on a completely different road, completely different spectrum of everything. And it's, you know, my life's not what it is now.

You had said that teammates was important. So many kids now are indoor kids. Social media, sports are becoming more specialized. So it's really changed from maybe when I was growing up and even probably maybe when you were starting to where it was for the love of the game. And there was a lot of fun to it. And your parents, most parents would say, if you start something, finish it, but if you don't want to do it again next year, you don't have to. But now, and I'm not saying it's good or bad, but people changing high schools, you know, several times. Well, at a quarterback position, you've got to go find an open spot. So if you're serious about the game, then you're going to chase an opportunity and you're going to. You're going to face it. But then it gets down to travel teams and. And, you know, this travel team breaks up and this travel team does that. And at some point it infiltrates into the kids. It's messaging to the kids that this isn't really about fun. This is about, at 11 years old, trying to put you in the best position to be the catcher on this travel team. And it just seems like it's pushing younger and younger and younger into athletics. And it could be good from the perspective that pursuing excellence and learning how to set goals and learning how to really focus on one thing and work and drive and, you know, it delivers people like you to where you are. And it creates tenacity, it creates resilience, it creates all these things in young athletes. But for the people that aren't that serious or talented, they get eaten up in that and they feel bad and they get left aside and they get not picked or, you know, push kicked off the travel team in favor of another kid that might be just a little bit better or maybe a little closer on the carpool for any Number of reasons. Better. Better friends with the coach.

Yeah, exactly.

And now you've got all of that. What, what advice would you give to a young person who finds themselves, you know, not really sure that they want to make a career of this, but yet they're. They want to be a part of it.

Right. No, I mean, I, I understand the want and. And I would say it's definitely worth it. Yeah. I mean, like, I think for me, I. Like you said, like, when I was young. Right. Like, everybody. There's always the kids that just kind of stand out, like, oh, that kid's gonna. He'll be fine. And then you.

Yeah.

When you kind of. When I would play, I'd look and be like, oh, that kid's really good. And then in three to four years, you kind of realize, like, I've caught that kid and passed that kid. And for me, it was always so interesting. And I think you hit it on the head was I played up. And so I always felt like I was good enough to be there, but there was always those kids that were way better than me, more mature, and, yeah, they had that little edge on me. And so it always. I always was chasing that and I always was trying to get better. But, like, I showed up to high school, like, as a freshman, like, 120 pounds, five eight. And I think in that instance, and then now in this instance where I'm showing up to the combine and I'm 6 1, 210 pounds, and you got guys like Drake May, or you got guys, you know, that are just these monsters of human beings and you're like, wait a second. And you start looking. And I think the number one thing throughout this entire process that I've learned and if you could apply. If I could have applied it to myself when I was 5 years old and I can still apply it when I'm 24, is to run your own race. Because I think, like, it's so easy, like you said, to get caught in the social media thing of, oh, like, look, this kid, this kid's in eighth grade and he's got an offer. This kid's in. You know, there's a fifth grader who's, you know, 6:1, 200 pounds. Like, I promise you, that kid who's 6:1 in fifth grade, he's going to be 6:1. And when he's at my age, like, all those things are going to. And there's going to be a kid who's six one and then he becomes seven foot and he's going to Be the best player you've ever seen. But it's all, it's all like right here. Right. It's like the horse running the race. Right. Why do they have blinders on? So they don't get distracted by the other racers. Yeah. And like that whole process, especially at the combine level, is right. You're seeing, you know, these top five quarterbacks. All you do, you turn on ESPN right now. Who are they talking about? Not me. They're talking about everybody else. Yeah. And it's like how easy it can be to just say, oh, shoot, what's he, what's he doing? What's he doing? And there's so many instances throughout my entire life, like even like as a freshman, I'm like, well, Zach's the starting quarterback. What am I, what am I doing wrong? Not why am I Not why, what do I, what can I do to get better? It was always, what's he doing? What's that person? Why is this coach not like me? Why does this not what am I doing right now to make myself the best I can be? So when that opportunity comes, whether it's on, you know, your superstar travel team or it's your local rec team, it's what am I doing with my feet in the ground right now at this point? And that applies to the 7 year old, 15 year old, 21 year old, 24 year old, 50 year old who's working at this job and is worried about what his co worker is getting accomplished and not what he's trying to do at that moment. And it for me is every time a coach like, how's this process been? It's about running your own race, not looking over your shoulder, not right, you know, why am I not getting talked to you? Why am I not taking a 30 visit? Yeah, what am I doing to get better today? And it was something my dad used to say all the time and it's so cliche and I hate it. And I hated it. But it was like, have you gotten bigger, faster, stronger today? And you can apply that to anything. Have you gotten smarter? Have you gotten, you know, thinner? Whatever you want to be, whatever you want to do, it's, are you doing that and everything else you know, you can, you can't control.

And you looked at me when you said thinner. But so that being said, and I will, you mentioned it again to put the bow on it, you and Zach had been good friends before that he's in this role that, you know, he was asked to do. He did it to the best of his ability. He knew he was keeping the chair warm for you. But to finish that story, you both, you went on, I think it was. You were maybe 12 and one that year. You won the state championship, and you both played in the state championship game.

Yeah. Incredible together. Incredible. I think I threw one completion and one pick. I was really excited. Well, you know, the pretty girl came up to me after the game, wanted a picture. I felt like I was walking on water. So it was good. It was good.

Yeah. Awesome. What's interesting about what you just shared was that there's 10 million young athletes and 30 million young ladies looking at you and saying, man, I would give anything to be in that position.

Right.

I'd be anything to be all over the media, great social media following, people almost making fun of you during the combine for how good looking you are and what a good athlete you look like and all of this stuff. But they would think that you have it all, but yet you still have to check yourself from being envious of other people. And envy, I have found, is the enemy of enlightenment. When you can literally do run your own race and you stop being envious because you can look at it in business. There's always somebody that's, you know, I used to look at it and say, oh, man, they're doing really well. How old are they? And how, like, how do they get there faster? You know, how much. How much do they have? How big is their business? And then it just. It is. It's kryptonite. It's poison to do that. You got to just be comfortable, you know, live in the moment. And, you know, Deion Sanders was our speaker at our IFA conference this year, and one of the things he said that people really resonated with was be where your feet are. Be in the moment, be present. You mentioned adversity. You've had quite a few things, surgeries before. Was it your senior season at Wake Forest with your rib?

Yeah. Yeah.

And so you're in camp and you had. Had surgery on your neck before.

Yeah, I have the nice, nice scar right here from a thyroid procedure when I was like, 17, just born with it. Rare defect. Won the lottery with that one. So I'm a case study still. I still get texts for both events, like, hey, can we. Can we use your evidence to show it at a medical conference?

Really?

Oh, yeah.

Fascinating. And then you get a blood clot and they end up having to remove your upper rib. And this is all right before your senior season, which is you're set up for incredible Success. What did you tell yourself during that time? To keep your head in the right place?

Yeah, I mean, honestly, it wasn't anything too special. Like I, you know, you'd love to have this like moment where I, you know, looked in the mirror and said, you know, had I lost all this weight and, you know, looking at the scar and I can't raise my left arm above, you know, whatever.

And it's probably good it was your left side.

Exactly. Probably wouldn't be here if that was the other way around. Knock on wood there. But I think again, it was the teammates. Like, I think I never forget the first practice I went to after I got hurt, or it was really after I. I had gotten the blood clot removed and so I was kind of in line to get the rib removed and they wanted to kind of clean out the blood clot. And I get to go to, I get to go to practice. I'm feeling fine. Like, it was just a weird. I had this huge wrap on my arm and whatever and I show up and I'm like, I'm like, okay. Like it kind of. You remember it, right? That feeling like you hear the horn.

Yeah.

Right. Everyone's smell. The smell is the grass.

Smell of the grass, the smell of the turf.

Right. And you're like the pads, you're like, okay. And like it was the first day of full pads too.

Yeah.

And it's camp, right. There's a lot of pimped up anger. Things are popping ball, things are going. And I'm like, wait a second, why am I not doing this? And then that. Never forget that first team when they go ones, ones and ones, like team. And I'm just like tears because I'm.

Like, that's my job.

That's mine. That's. It's. That's my Ferrari. Right? That's the car. That's my, you know, fast and furious. That's my, you know, build up. And you're running, you're racing that quarter mile in my car. And I'll never forget, like I hated the feeling of not being out there so much. That that was what drove me to push the rehab and fight the top. I got in a yelling match with this like six year old, seven year old lady, Dr. Julie Freischlag, who's, you know, vernacular surgeon known around the world. I'm in a screaming match with her about how I can, I can come back faster than what you're telling me because I'm like this. There is, there is no right. You tear your rotator Cuff. There's a six to seven. Those weeks or months that you're out, right. For this. This is like. We don't know. Like, we've never done it before. No one ever come. People are coming back to go live nine to fives, not go play one of the most physical sports and. And known to man. And I'm like, well, yeah, but I feel fine. And I'm like, little. They know I can't move my. I have no. I still don't have feeling on the back of my arm from the nerve damage. And it was all these things, and I'm like. But the number one thing was getting back on the field not to go throw the touchdown. It was just to be around the camaraderie. Right. Like, the huddle that is kind of in a. Probably a, you know, grand scheme of life is the huddle is kind of dismembering in a sense, if we want to go in a real deep dive of football at this point, especially college football. But that huddle aspect, I was like, that's my spot. Right. If I'm on a chess, like, I'm. I'm on that chessboard, and now I'm off. I'm off the sideline. And so that was some. That was the number one motivator for me.

Got it. As a society, we've never been more connected than we are right now. And at the same time, people have never felt more alone. There's more depression, there's more anxiety, there's more mental illness. There's more suicide. There's all of these things that are on the rise, and people are trying to get a handle on why. If you were to give some advice to parents about what their kids need to hear from them in their teenage years, what would that be?

Yeah, I mean, I think, obviously, that's a pivotal point for a lot of kids. And, like, I can speak to male athletes in a sense. Sure. And I can. You know, you can speak to all, but I would specifically say male athletes that are, you know, trying to reach that next level. Whether it's.

Yep.

Whether it's the next level is, you know, starting on your high school team or playing in college or whatever it is. Like, that's a stressful time. I think there's such a misconstruction of how to look at success.

Okay.

And I, like, I talked to it. I literally talked to my therapist yesterday. I got this new performance coach who's incredible, and we're just. I was in it with another lady, and I loved. She Was great. And I kind of stopped doing her with her and then started moving on to another performance coach and just breaking down the constructs of what reality is. And at 24 years old, I feel like I'm so behind the eight ball, but I obviously, hopefully have a lot more time to really dive into. But just the years of.

What was you behind?

Oh, I mean, I just think, like, if I could do this, if there was a class in middle school teaching me how to construct failure, success, and everything in between, I'd be. The society as a whole would be light years ahead, I think, especially men. And I think you, you wouldn't be able to do it in eighth grade. I think maybe as a junior in high school, instead of a sex ed class, there should be, or there probably should be a sex ed class, but a mental health and performance aspect, because it's not even mental health, it's just performance. And it's not performance as a football player, it's performance as a human, as a husband, as a father, at all those different things. I think you can. It's like a muscle. You can grow and strengthen.

Okay.

And I think to not go way off track, but for a kid, right, he's gonna. As a teenager, you think success is money, you think it's girls, you think it's throwing touchdowns, you think it's starting? I would say success is living in the present moment, being at where your feet are at winning the moment. Right? We call all those different things that's going to be what makes the rest of your life successful. Because, right, I can sit here and remember the times when all I was thinking about was the senior bowl while I was training. How is that helping me when I'm not thinking about, okay, I got to get my feet underneath me, right? Pun intended, in this moment and make this throw while I'm still thinking, oh, what if, like, I miss a call at the senior bowl, right? And then you can I now, let's put it into the high school terms or the middle school terms. It's like, I'm an eighth grade quarterback. I want to be the starter. As a freshman, I'm out training this off season, getting ready to go to my freshman year, and all I'm thinking about is, oh, man, like, what if you know, the coach, you know, it's too hard. I don't understand it. When you're not focused on the moment you're in right now. And for the parent, right? It's like, okay, well, that sounds great. That'd be great. I'd Love to just manipulate my kid. I think it's the belief in them, and it's the belief. Not that I love you. And you're my favorite because you're the starting quarterback as a freshman. It's because you're working your butt off for me. You're not for. You're working your butt off to get to that goal, and I'm proud of you for doing that, whether you're the starter, whether you're the four string, whether you're the waterboy. I love you for your intensity and all of your intentionality of what you're trying to accomplish, what you're trying to do. And anything after that is. That's not success or that's not defined of my relationship with you.

Yeah. I've come to appreciate the concept of unique ability. And everybody, regardless of what they do, if they're a teacher or if they're an artist, if they're a videographer, you know, the people we've got working here with us today, everybody has unique abilities that need to be appreciated. And I think parents can do well to identify really, what makes those kids light up and then unconditionally support them in those things. And then there's also getting them tools, paying enough attention, being situationally aware enough to say, you know what? This might not be what they're good at, but I see that they've got these tendencies. Let me put them in this and let me give them exposure to several different things and just see where it clicks for him. It's kind of the same way with Jack, you know, my youngest. And look, you know, he. We played football for seven years. You know, it's good, but, you know, never, you know, never asked me to, you know, put him in a camp or anything like that. But then when he found lacrosse, it was something that he really liked. It was, you know, a lot of the contact of football and a lot of good skills, a lot of speed and stuff. Size didn't matter. Matter quite as much. And then you get to hit people with sticks.

Exactly.

Which, you know, Jack, that's fun. So finding people's unique ability and supporting inside of that. And I know you've had incredibly supportive parents, Mark and Lisa. We've been friends really, since that day. I mean, I think we started doing travel, baseball together at seven. And, you know, it just went right on through. Which leads me to a story. And I don't know if you remember this, but there was a. It was during basketball season, and I don't know if we were in stewards of the game, I think something like this. And you know, we. There was. It was somebody's birthday maybe.

I know exactly the story. It's a good one.

We had a sleepover at my house, right. And yeah, you know, I'm. I'm big about autonomy. Right. Let the big dogs hunt, you know, Let them do what they want to do. So I went to bed and we had what, an 8am game or something like that?

Yeah, because we already. We already lost every game the day before.

So we had like an 8am game and you guys, I think, stayed up till 5am for sure or something like that. So I rouse you guys out and I, you know, put your. Put your jerseys on you and I take you in and your father's there and you kid showed up, you had bags under your eyes and we're all swollen, all pale. You could barely talk. You're warming up. One of the kids, Mark had his hair straight up and then he had fell asleep first. Of course. He had markers all over his face. And of course I'm just walking in like, here they are. And your dad, I don't think he talked to me for. I forgot Monsth. But the comment was, do you want to be sleepover kids or do you want to be athletes? And there's a lot of truth to that. I know that you guys did. One of the things you guys did was, which I really, really applaud, was you and Joe did 60 minutes of activity every day. And it didn't matter what it was. You could go down in the batting cage, you could throw, you could catch, you could do whatever it is.

60 Minutes is a. Is a. Yeah, that was. Let's bump that number up.

So 60 minutes.

But like it's like it's a. You have a 60 minute practice on a Thursday, you know, before your big practice. It goes two and a half hours.

That's right. Okay, well.

And you're late to your 10:00am yeah, that goes.

So. So I don't know. I think. I think you've done pretty good for a sleepover kit.

Yeah. Holy cow. I just. I just imagine like just the fly on the wall because like, I'm sure the other team looked like that too.

Dude, you guys were throwing the basketball at the bottom of the rim like you couldn't even. I mean.

Oh my goodness. I can remember. Like, I remember Calcagno's face with the marker on it, all swollen. Yeah. Oh, man.

Yeah. That's awesome. Oh, wow. You know, but I'll tell you what, there's A book. There's a book out there called the 2am Principle, and it says all great stories start after 2am I don't endorse that. I don't think that's true. I don't think anything good happens after that. But, you know, it was some good.

That's some comp. I mean, the Mark Calcagno, like, sleepover. I have so many groups create, like, memories of him. Like, the chapstick story at my house in Lake Norman is just infamous with Mark Mike Cagno. I feel like he should be the next guest. Like, I just. What is he doing? I don't.

I think he's living in New York and doing something in finance.

Yeah. There you go. That's awesome.

Yeah, it makes sense. So moving on to college and now, especially for high profile positions, it's a business.

Oh, yeah.

How are you dealing with that? Or how did you do. It's different now. So how did you deal? Because Nils happened right. When you were in school.

Yeah.

So how did you deal with that?

Yeah, I mean, I think it was cool because I got both worlds. I think I got the pureness, you know, in 2018 and 2019. And then kind of, as everybody's world did, it got flipped on its head during COVID in 2020. But, I mean, I. I think the. The great thing for me was I saw the game for what it was at the beginning. 2018, 2019 of. It's a team game. It's selflessness. We're at Wake Forest where when the nil stuff did start coming, we're like, yeah, but that's not us. Like, that's everybody else. Right.

This is Ohio State.

Yeah, we're not touching that. And as it progressed, right, you could see that, you know, there were guys on the team where the wheels were turning and, you know, the money's kind of coming and going. And it was kind of, you know, a miniature NFL idea of like, yeah, hey, like, what if I could get this deal? Hey, what if, you know, this guy just made a million dollars? Like, I can make a million dollars. Right. It's like, no, no, you can't. And I think that's the misconception of this whole reality is like, there is a 5 to 10% of college football. And that's a. That's probably an overestimation that are generous.

That's right.

Making that money. And then there's the rest that are making a $500 deal, a $300 deal. Hey, you get free food for a week or like all of that stuff one in the grand schemes, if you are serious about the game and serious about going to play at the next, like the NFL, like that money's chump change in comparison to what you could. But there's also the great side of it where kids are able to pay, you know, to fly home instead of, hey, you get a $2,000 stipend. Like, yeah, you got to save that for food. Hey, maybe you're making 10 grand now and you can fly your family out for, you know, a game or the. You can fly home for the weekend. Like, those things are incredible. Like, that was something that. Being able to be around guys and seeing that was so nice. We had kids that. With Notre Dame, you had such a wide outreach of, you know, kids were from Hawaii, so it's like their family were able to fly their whole family out.

Right.

All those things are. That's. That's what I think Nil's meant to be for. Right. To help compensate the guys for not being able to go, you know, work, get a job, all those things and the money they bring in.

Look, when we were in school, people, we had a field house that had an equipment room. And people lived in there.

Oh, yeah.

Over the summer. Because they wanted to stay there and work out. And there was a month before they couldn't afford to fly. I mean, we had kids from all over the country. They couldn't afford to fly home. They didn't have money for an apartment. The scholarship was going to pick up. When they were going to get to move back in the dorm, they had a gap for two weeks and they'd stink and live in the equipment room in the field house.

Yeah, no, it's.

It's so unnecessary. And then they go out and, you know, sell 50,000 tickets on the weekend.

Exactly. And that's. They're making a million dollars and like, you know, a million dollars in concessions and that's. Without ticket sales, it's out. So there is obviously there was a need for it. There's a great. The great things, there's the bad things. And then it becomes the business side of it.

Yeah.

Because the cool thing, one being at Wake and then going to Notre Dame is you. You kind of see both sides of the spectrum. Where you see a Wake Forest team that struggled this year, and partially it was retention. And Coach Klausten has said it right. There's the retention of players that you normally, on a normal. No Nil, you keep. Or they go to the NFL and now they're out on other teams and they're transferring. In my case, I have to play them. And so that part of it you see. And then you go to Notre Dame and you see the benefits of it where you get to bring people in. You get to create kind of these teams that have, you know, talent from all over, and they're older and developed and. But then you also see it where it's like, these kids are bouncing from school to school to school to chase this offer, to chase this deal, and it's like, hey, you can do all this. But then, like, what happens when you stop performing? Like, is it going to become something where, hey, you stop performing, I'm going to take that money back and you're cut. Like the NFL, right? Because then you're cut from the team, you're out of the organization. You don't have a college degree because you've transferred three times.

Right.

And you're. You. Your money. Yeah. Maybe you made a hundred thousand dollars. That's gonna last you how long. And, like, all those different things are what you have to start realizing as this thing progress more and more is, like you said, it's a business, right. Are you gonna become an employee? You're gonna get health benefits? Are you gonna get, like.

Yeah.

Can you get cut? Like a coach can get fired? Yeah, like, all those things. Right. And that's great because you learn early. Right. Like that. Okay. Now that when I go into the real world, like, these things are implications, like taxes. Like, I'm getting hammered on taxes right now because I don't have any assets. I need to buy stuff.

Yeah.

Not like shoes and stuff like this, but like real estate. But all those things was like, something like you asked, was just like, that's the part of the business. And it was. Okay. The reason for transferring to Notre Dame wasn't, for me, I think, becomes this misconception of, oh, all this money that he got. Oh, you know, the nil. You know, he wanted the deals. I'm like, I wish. I won't say the number. But the number was nowhere close to anything that everyone has estimated. Like, the number that they put up there. It was nowhere close. I had no guarantee of money. Like, they would say, hey, we're gonna get you to this number. But there was no signed papers. There was no nothing.

Okay.

There was no.

So it's a handshake deal.

It was a handshake deal.

And the money comes from boosters.

So the money is like, there's collective that they create. And then we do, like, at Notre Dame. It's really cool. You get to. You go do, like, charity work. And I got hooked up with the Ronald McDonald House.

Oh, great.

In Mishawaka. And there's obviously Ronald McDonald Houses all over the world or the country. And so I still do stuff with them. Like I did when I went. I went to the super bowl and did a stuff with TurboTax, and they donated portions. Beats by Dre donated headphones to the kids. And during my pro day, I had to go back and, you know, give out to the kids in the hospital.

And.

Yeah, so, like, there's that side of it, too, where I can donate money to the charities and do all this stuff. But that's how Notre Dame ran it. But it was all this, like, talk of that, and then, like, when things go south, we're like, oh, the fans are like, oh, we brought in this kid and we're paying them a million dollars. I'm like, no, you weren't. I promise you that you weren't. If I was making a million dollars, trust me, you would know. I'd be driving around in a Mercedes. I'd be driving around a Lamborghini. I'm not smart with that stuff. I would have bought something sick. You would have known. I'd have been private jetting in and out of there. I promise you. My mom knows. She sees my bank statements there, spend money, but it was for the game aspect of it. And I think that. That, as you say, it's a business to me. I still see football as the game I play and love since when I was 5 years old and I'm playing now. But it was just another opportunity because, as I know, the business of the NFL and what I'm getting ready to go into, it's even more cutthroat than it's already is.

That's right.

In the college level. And so I said, hey, I go to Notre Dame. There's a. There's an opening and a spot to play at a school like Notre Dame and play right. With the golden helmet on, under the golden dome, under Touchdown Jesus in front of 80,000 people. Sign me up. Yeah. And then they're like, yeah, but you can make money this way. And I'm like, oh, cool. Like, yeah. And that was.

That was just gravy on top of the fact that it was the next adventure. You already had become the what, the leading touchdown thrower in the history of the acc?

Yeah, whatever. Something like that.

Yeah, something like that. You know, if you check. Look that up. But. So you've. But you had accomplished that. You really Elevated that program. Been a big part of it. Great coach. Great coach. And you still have a year of eligibility to go and have another incredible experience. And that was the driving factor.

Yeah. No, I mean, it was football and it was the huddle. It was. They huddle there at Notre Dame, right. This year, this going into this year, they don't huddle anymore. That's a new thing. But we huddled, right. And you get to go and on your. It'd be on my left was Joe Alt, you know, and you have Audrey Estimate on my right. And you got a bunch of other guys around you. Wow. Yeah, it's both those guys. And so that whole. The camaraderie there, and you do mass in the basilica and you do the walk and I. I mean, at the thinnest parts, there's five deep, people. And at the biggest parts, closer to Stadium, there's 30 to 40 deep. As you're walking down, you know, through this campus that feels like you're in a movie. And you get to go in there and you got Joe Montana standing outside the locker room and, you know, you're. That's Joe Montanus.

That's right.

Like, holy cow. And, you know, Joe Theisman called me last night, just, you know, checking in, making sure everything's good. Brady Quinn's another passive. It's good.

That's tough.

But again, those. Those moments and those things and it again, it's all the. Kind of revolves around the beginning of this whole sit down was the team and the teammates and the people around the game that have, you know, impacted me and impact the game and impact the legacy of it for years to come. It's not how much money this guy made, what deal did he get, what, you know, what's like this going on. It's what we did on the field together, in the locker room, right off the field. All those things that you understand and know.

Yeah.

Right at your time at App is like those are the moments you remember. You don't remember like 100%. I don't remember, like you said, the touchdown. I don't like. I remember celebrating with those guys like after we won, but I don't remember what touchdown was, which. And when is this ball and all like it was.

It's funny, my first college game that I played in, I played my real college game was App State at Wake Forest.

There you go.

It was our first game of the season, 1989. Ricky Prole was the punt returner and we had some locker room material because the year before App had tied Them and kept them out of some bowl game or something. So the next year we come back and he said something. The effect of we beat them by. If we beat them by 100, it won't make up for last year. And that was the locker room material. It was my first real college game, so I was pissing in my pants, you know, I was on the kickoff return team in the middle, and then started at tight ends and we beat them 15 to 10. And what. But what I remember, I don't remember the plays. I remember I graded out well and we had like average like 8 yards on toss around our side. So, like me and attack, we had a tackle that went to the league for like 10 years. Yeah, Derek Graham and. But what I remember is that after the game they had fireworks go off, but we had one. And then we're running around the sidelines and all of our fans crushed down. Like, it's just that. Yeah, that's. Honestly, I don't remember much else. I mean, I would have to really think about it. But that's the one moment that pops in. And I remember with all the teammates getting on the bus and how just everybody's just going absolutely bananas. So amazing. So now you're heading into the draft, you're going to be an NFL quarterback, and you've got all of these business opportunities now. Your profile's been raised quite a bit, and yet you need to be focused on making a team, winning a job, and, you know, moving into this next phase of your career. The adversity is going to be there. I can't imagine the pressure. Hardest, probably the highest level, skilled job in the world, if you think about it, right? You look at NFL quarterbacks, I mean, there's 10 that stand out, and there's another 10 or 15 that are serviceable. And then everybody else is rotating through and winning jobs. And it's just the skill level, it's so fast and it's so high. So you're going to be focused on that. Yet you have all these other opportunities because you're Sam Hartman and people like you and you've shown the ability to come back from adversity to win massive football games and then to have the composure after a game, to give a great interview, to give the credit where the credit's due. Other people, the coaches, the team, the fans, and even in the case of Duke, go over and check on Riley, who was hurt and things like that. So you've been able to really be in the moment, to be who you needed to be. When you needed to be. And I think that's a skill that's going to serve you exceptionally well in the NFL because of the ability to focus on. That being said, how are you dealing with the distractions of endorsements and all of that stuff? Because unlike a lot of draft picks, you have a lot of opportunities.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think it's perspective. I mean, I think when I was a, you know, young guy, right, like, if you told my freshman year self, crying, getting a cookout milkshake with your son, like, hey, this is where you're going to be. This is what you're gonna do. I'm probably gonna tell you you're crazy, man. And probably scream stranger danger, but also not believe you. And I think the perspective of that is also saying, okay, let me sit back and truly analyze everything that's going on, right. In a moment, in a situation like you were kind of talking about. Sometimes it's just the nature of it. It's how I was raised. It's the people that have been put around me to, you know, my mom always talks about just do the right thing, right? It's pretty simple, right? What's like, it's not, you know, sticks. And so we can go back to the advice to your, you know, you want to give your kids. If you're, you have teenagers, just tell them to do the right thing. Like, kids are smart, right? Like, if it doesn't seem right, probably don't do it. And. And I think that goes along right in line with the endorsement deals. Like, there's some deals that you get presented and you're like, it's just not me. And I think that's the authentic part. And kind of, you know, the words and I really kind of butchered it at the beginning was, you know, I said resilience, I said experience. And the other one really is self awareness. And I think self awareness, it is such a huge thing that not to say that I'm perfect like my mom, my girlfriend, they'll tell me and my brother, and probably these people will tell you I'm the least self aware person in the world. But I've over six seasons of college football, being a captain for four of those years, two different schools. That's the number one quality of a leader that I find so important and find so, like, readily missing. And people need awareness, self awareness, self awareness. Because it's so easy to get caught up in the. I gotta give my employees the best speech in the world. I gotta make sure everyone's happy. I Gotta make sure. But it's. Sometimes it's. How am I as a leader presenting the information? It's not about the information you're presenting because if you come in and you're so above the top and so, oh, my goodness, we got to get this done. And we got it. How is that affecting this? You know, your, Your one co worker here and then how is it hitting the co worker over there? And that's not a. That's not something that you. The way, you know, oh, the PowerPoint, the colors were off or how we just, you know, we didn't spend enough time on it. Sometimes it's like, okay, well, I know that she doesn't like, you know, this kind of coaching technique or this. And I can. I can't really relate it to a workspace. I know that this receiver does not like to get talked to in front of people he likes. He's a private. He. He, like, they're pulling aside. Pull him aside. Not even pull him aside. Like, don't even. It's like the subtle, like, sandwich, like, hey, man, dude, you've been crushing it. This. Coach Claassen taught me this, right? You've been crushing it, right? That's the bread, dude, you're. That's. You're the best. You're my favorite receiver throw, too. Oh, really? You know, it's like, okay, thanks. I'm talking. You're my type of. Jeff, you're my favorite tight end to throw, too. You're always open. When we're going fast tempo, like, we just. You need to get set a little faster. But when you're. When you're set and you're driving off the ball, you're the best tight end we got.

There you go.

So what did I.

Feedback delivered, gave it a sandwich, right?

And it's like, those things are simple, but it's like that self awareness to not just go, Jeff, you gotta get, you know, sorry. You gotta get freaking lined up, dude.

Yeah.

Like, yeah. And then you're like, dude, screw you. All you do is sit back there and drop back and. And then like those moments of like, okay, all right. The team had a bad practice, right? The organization had a bad week, right? It's been, you know, we're sluggish. We're, you know, we're dragging our feet. All right, we got to get everybody up. Maybe it's. Instead it's like, what am I, Am I doing? Am I. Is my energy right? Different? Is my. Is what I'm doing different than. Than what it should be? Am I holding the standard. And it's like you say they call it like the servant leadership. I don't really. I think if you're not a servant leader, you're not a leader. Right, right. Like, if you're not. If you're not upholding the standard, if you're not doing the right things that you're preaching, like, you're gonna get fired, you're gonna get replaced, your company's gonna fail, your team's gonna stink. Those are. That's a check. Like you're just checking boxes at that point. I think the self awareness aspect comes from these people see me as somebody, especially as a quarterback, like we talked about, as you're kind of on a different scale, you're on a different level. You have the endorsements, you have all these things. But sometimes I don't take a deal because I don't want these guys to get jealous of the deal that I'm taking, or I keep it undercover or I take the deal and say, hey, like I do with my alignment. It's every deal I did at Notre Dame and Wake had something with them in it.

Nice.

Like, Joe Walt was in my Google Ad or the Dove stuff. I give all my Dove products away to those guys. Like that. That's the self awareness aspect. And that's something that, like, you don't think it's a big deal. And then like, when you go back and they're like, like, oh, like, dude, we miss, like the. Because I got them Carhartt jackets. Like, dude, these car jackets are great. But it's not. I'm not, you know, like, some of it's, you know, selfish, because I want them to block for me and I want them to do their job. But it's also, like, because I have the platform, because I have the thing that I have. My self awareness tells me to do those things because it's the right thing to do.

Well, they're not. It shows you haven't forgotten about them. You're recognizing and rewarding them. Another thing I've learned in leadership, that's important and it's more difficult to do as an organization, Scales is really being aware of tempo and cadence. People can't. Nobody can sprint forever. So if you want to peak and you're an athlete, you're an athletic team, you want to make sure that you're bringing maximum effort over the biggest opportunities. So sometimes you got to take a little bit of a break, and sometimes you got to let people rest, and then you got to build towards it. And I Think great coaches. I don't know how Clausen did it, but, you know, our coaches at App State, I think they could sense when we needed a break and then they sensed when we needed to go. And it's the same thing in any organization here. It's like we're pushing, we're pushing. We're working late. We gotta work overnight to get this done. We want to get something out for Friday, you know, for the draft out of this. So somebody in this room is going to have to put in some extra effort to make that happen. But then, you know, then you know when people take a break and things like that, so. Interesting. Okay, so we're going into the draft now and you're going to be watching it here. Any thoughts or anything you care to share about how you're thinking about what's going to happen over the next few days?

I think. I mean, it always revolves around perspective. I think that's something that you. I've harped on and I harp on. I probably said it already, but just take me back to sophomore year in college. Take me back to freshman year in high school. Take me back to when I was five, right. When I, you know, saw the NFL. I have a great story and this is. This kind of revolves around it, but I wanted to share it. Do you remember taking me. And I think it was just Zach to an App State football game when they had. What's his name, the receiver? Sweat. Was it Sweat or Swift?

Yeah, big, big, tall guy.

And then. What's his name? Edwards.

Armani. Edwards.

Armani. Edwards.

Brian. Swift.

It might have been. Yeah, I know the last name that was like.

Yeah.

And we went to. And we got in the locker room.

Yeah.

With. And somebody else was there with us. Because I have a funny story to tell after that. I can't say on here, though, about that, but we went in the locker room after the game and they did the Lord's Prayer. And I remember sitting there. This is one of it was this. And then going, sorry, we went to a Michigan game. I know. After they beat them. But we went. That was the other reason why I played. But we went there and I remember they did the Lord's Prayer. And I'm. You know, you're a little kid in this locker room. These dudes like, you're like, oh, my. Like, what's going on? Like. And then like, everyone takes a knee and you're kind of like, let's go. Like. And I remember sitting there and then I'm like, I take a knee and I'm kind of, like, looking around. There's this, you know, giant football player in front of me, and I just. Two hands. There's two football player hands. And they're just, like, reaching out to me. Like, I'm a part of the team. And I'll never forget, like, that. Like, those moments of, like. Okay. Me being there at that point.

Yeah.

And the trajectory it put me on of saying, like, that's the coolest thing in the world. Like, these two football players, they had their glove. Like, the tape. I can remember the tape kind of like, you know, that classic after a game.

Oh, yeah. Tapes kind of coming off and. Yeah.

And these gloves. I mean, it was just like. And I put my hands. And they didn't, like, look at me, like, what the heck's this little kid? They just put their hands out and I said the Lord's Prayer, and I don't think I said the Lord's Prayer right at all. Sorry. But it was just like, one of those things. I'm like, oh, my gosh. Got up and, like, it was nothing. I think one of the guys patted me on the back. I'm like, I didn't do anything.

Like, I don't know how that happened, because I know we went in the locker room, we followed the team in the locker room. And Coach Moore from App State, he. He counted how many players that he had coached. And when you talk to him, he'd say, we'd have. We'd have. We have. We've had 979 football players through this program since I got here. Like, he cared about the alumni. He always included the alumni inside of that. So for whatever reason, we were always like, alumni players are always welcome to go in. We followed him in the locker room, and I didn't. And everybody got down, and we kind of got in there with the team. It was like three young kids and me. And we got in there, and you had to kneel because everybody was kneeling.

Right.

But what I remember is. Is like, do you remember when they first started praying, like, how loud and deep it was? It was almost like a shock. It was like, you know, and then we just got into that huddle.

Yeah.

That was awesome. I had forgotten about that.

I remember that, like. And that's like another one of, like, the whole just camaraderie of, like, going back to Notre Dame is when they do in the basilica, we do the. We read, like, those endearments, like, queen of Victory, pray for us. Joe Walt did it. And it was always like, can you get them all right in a row. It's like 20 different things. It's like Our Lady Queen of Victory pray for. And that echo, like, when the first time you're in there and, like, the entire team's in there, there's people in the background, like, in the back in this giant, just cathedral, and you're just like. Like chills. But that those moments and those different instances give you a perspective of just the journey and everything that has got me to this position. And the percentages also, right? You think about the percentage that have done what you've done in your life right through Advantaclean and all the different things that I don't know, but I know are important and impressive and put you on this pedestal that where you're at and the percentage of all the different things that I've done and gone through and went through and put me at the pedestal that I'm on, that obviously can always get better. And you're always like, you and I are very similar. Right. You're always chasing, right. You're always wanting to be the best. And, like, when I get the call, I'll be like, holy cow. But then I'm thinking, okay, I need the playbook. I need this. So it is, like, one of those things where it's like, yeah, like, this is really cool. And people are like, are you nervous? Like, you want it? You feel where you want to go. And I'm like, I just want my playbook.

Yeah.

Because I know that there's. This isn't the end. This isn't. You know, this isn't something that, like, just because this happened, just because I'm drafted, just because I'm not drafted doesn't mean I make or miss the team or.

Right.

It's all just an opportunity. And then that perspective of saying, like, that there's not a lot of people that get this opportunity. I'm gonna make the most of it and give it everything I have, like I've been doing for the past shoot. Is it 19 years now? Yeah, 19 years of playing football, and it's like, hopefully there's a few more in there. And, you know, then from there, once the dust settles, the dust settles, and life keeps moving on, whether you want it to or not.

Right now, we're in Charleston, South Carolina. Your bags are packed. 30 days from now, you have no idea where you're living.

Shoot. Like, 10 days from now, 10 days.

From now, you will be some. Like, how quickly do you need to leave?

It'll be. So if I was Like a first round pick, which I won't be. You can if you're betting. If I have any prop bets, I won't be a first round pick. I got you insider information there. No, it is like a week basically, right? Some teams are a week, some teams are two. If you're like a first round pick, you go like right away because you got to do media tours, but most teams are like a week after, like that weekend after.

And then what OTAs.

So you start OTA. So you do like a mini camp that's three days. Then you integrate with the entire team. You're just on the team and it's a bigger, like, you know, this is like 80 something guys, bigger roster. And then it, as you go through, then you do mini camp and then that, like in the minicamp you start, you get OTAs and I think you get a month off and then you start minicamp, right? And then it's integrate. Cuts. Cuts.

So OTAs are just to get you acclimated to their system. Get, get you into.

See what you, what you got.

See what you got. Let them lay their eyes on every. All the new draft picks in person. Because not all the, because again, it's not the coaching staff that drafts, it's the front office, right?

And they want to see how you mix what you, you know what, who are you really? Because again, like, that's the crazy thing is like you do all these interviews, you do the combine and you do this. And like you said, it's like, especially the quarterback position, some guys just show up and it's just not right or it's perfect or, hey, we got this. You know, we got a first round guy and we got an undrafted guy and the undrafted guy's, hey, we. He fits us better than the first round guy or the four. Like, there's so many variables and especially at the quarterback position to like sit here and think, oh, God, man, I hope I go here. It's going to be perfect. It's like you don't know that. Like you think Brock Purdy sat there and said, ah, sweet. Like I'm, I know I'm going to the 49ers as the last pick of the draft and I'm going to be in a. Playing a Super bowl in two years. No, no, he was probably devastated and he was prob. Like, shoot, man. But then obviously it was the best fit and the best situation and you know, you almost, you hope, you hope, hey, that opportunity. Exactly.

And he maximized it. Whether it be in high school, college, or what will be the NFL. You've always been a great locker room guy. That's one of the most consistent things people have said about Sam Hartman is he's the perfect team guy. He's a great leader. That comes through in all of your interviews. It comes through from all of your teammates and all the coaches. They've had nothing but great things to say about you. How big of an asset is that going to be for you? Going in to an NFL locker room with a bunch of grown ass men?

Yeah, for sure we can say no, I'm just kidding.

We did, we did. But these are grown men, they're business people, they've been at it. It's serious. Any idea how you're going to approach that? Business as usual for Sam Harbin?

Yeah, I mean I think to hit on it. I haven't always been, you know, I haven't. I was good and then I got to college and I think I tried to do too much. Okay. And I learned Coach Claassen has probably had the most impact on that leadership style and just he's so unique in the way that he does everything. It's just so. It's just routine.

Yeah.

It's like you wake up and you brush your teeth. Coach Clausen wakes up and does everything in a, you know, meticulous and well thought out and well planned order that it's, he's the master puppeteer. I think he's one of the best college football coaches in the world and it's all behind the scenes. Like you don't see him getting up on ESPN and talking the talk and doing all the different things that all these new coaches are doing. It's. He just handles his business and whether you like it or you hate it, you like him, you hate him. Like he's an unbelievable coach and I learned so much just about how well thought out his movements and the way he does things and it's almost so unselfish. It seems selfish where you seem like, oh, like he's all he cares. No, he had. There's a reason. There's a master plan behind everything he's doing. And so I learned so much about just the impact that like what I do, what I say and it kind of goes back to that self awareness and that's where I learned a lot of it. So when I did the mini transition to this Notre Dame place that is a, I mean completely different entity and just this massive basically organization or enterprise that is global. Right. We were in Ireland and week one we had almost 60,000 or. I think it was 40,000Americans traveled abroad to watch that game.

Almost came to that. We wanted to go. That looked awesome.

Yeah, it was incredible. Guinness was just flowing. You could smell it on the field. I promise you.

They put it in food, they put it in pancakes, in everything.

It's just better over there. I'll just tell you that. I'm just saying it's better over there. But it was just, like, the ability for me to just kind of walk in there and be like, okay, how can I meticulously go around this where it's not a game, but it is a game? Because you can always. You can go in and say, like, okay, who are my guys that I need to connect with? Who are the guys that I can kind of just go out and play, and they're gonna just kind of come with me, and who are the guys I gotta spend every second, every time I see them, I gotta basically just give them, like, the biggest hug, metaphorically, and you just work through that. And it's like, I knew walking into that locker room, like. And I know walking into an NFL locker room to kind of go back to your question was like, I can't kick the door down, right? I did that down here in Oceanside because you. There's no other reason. There's no way, right? I transferred in here. Like, we were 0, 7, or 0 and 8 the year before. Like, yeah, like, I'm gonna kick the door down. I'm gonna remodel the whole kitchen. I'm gonna do the bathrooms. We gotta just completely clean the house. But, like, at Notre Dame, right? And then, obviously an NFL organization, you just got to, like, kind of peek your head in and say, okay, boom, we got six guys. You know, like. Like an operative. Like, you got to just kind of check, say, where do I fit into this puzzle? Where do I fit into this. This organization? And how can I be the best teammate I can be. Be the best, really asset to this organization, whether that's being the franchise quarterback, whether that's being a second string, whether that's being a practice squad guy, whether that's cleaning the showers after everybody's finished, like, how can I do that effectively? And that was the. What I learned at Notre Dame. And as I went there, it was like, as much as I could. You want to press, you want to implement your ideas. You want to. You know, you want to kick that door down, but you got to do it so meticulously, because you kick the door down and it hits three people behind you, and then Those three people are the. You know, the starting linebacker, the left tackle, and the running back. And they can't stand you.

You got lost. Yeah. You got a problem. What's the trash talk? Escalation and expectation in the NFL?

It depends. You play. Like, I know in college, it was like, when I was younger, it was a lot more. And as I got older, kind of guys realized, like, I'm very nice.

They're not going to shake you.

No. Like, it's usually young.

You were always helping people up, tapping people.

I'm like, there was.

I was always so proud because we watched every game, and I was always so proud that you were constantly showing good sportsmanship. Oh, yeah. Even in tough times, Even maybe when people didn't deserve it. And I thought that people. I saw people giving you a lot of respect back on the field for that.

True. Oh, I had so many moments where I'm like, this guy is gonna kill me. And he pulled up and I'm like, hey, dude, why don't you kill me? He's like, why would I. You're too nice.

I'm like, yes.

It paid off. So there's, like, that. There is a gamesmanship to it. I have a. There was a little bit. I mean, I've had probably. I don't know if Notre Dame. I ever really talked to anybody, but, I mean, at Wake, probably when I was younger, I probably did a little. But it's.

I don't think anybody's hit Tom Brady in, like, seven years.

Exactly.

I mean, they just stopped.

Tip of the cap.

Nobody wants to be that guy. Nobody wants to be on that highlight clip.

Exactly. Exactly. For sure.

Yeah. So if you Google Sam Hartman, the first question that comes up is, is Sam Hartman single?

I am not. Okay. I have.

Well, so you. You. I wouldn't have asked, but you had mentioned a girlfriend before, so the answer is no.

No, I have a girlfriend. She plays soccer at Wake Forest, and she. She's awesome. And. Yeah, she's great. She'll be down here for the draft and everything.

Oh, fantastic. And what year she.

Is this her last year? She's got one more season left because just the. She had a red shirt.

All right, well, good luck with that. Sam, thank you so much for investing this time with us. Usually I'd ask people, where can people get in touch with you? But I don't think you want that.

No, not at all.

What's it like going to a restaurant here in Charleston for you today?

It's unique. I mean, it's. I mean, I'd say that everything is kind of. We hit on this before we kind of started recording of just the, you know, Wake Forest me or shoot, high school me thinking, you know, oh, I'm, you know, I got all this. I had a TV show, people recognize me or whatever. Yeah, QB1, QB1, all that. You get to Wake Forest and it's kind of like, okay. And then toward the latter half of my career, you know, the. The fame or whatever you want. Social media status started picking up. And it was kind of the age difference probably of like the younger generation at Wake to me. Like, I kind of. I wasn't really in school, so I was kind of just. I was only. If I ever kind of appeared on campus, it was a deal. And then you get to Notre Dame and then it kind of just blows up.

That's global.

And then that. Yeah, that becomes this thing. And then you go to the combine and then it blows up even more. So, I mean, it depends sometimes on the thing. I have a. People make fun of my disguise, but I have a little bit of a like, you know, Undercover Boss esque. Do you feel going and.

Okay.

So I try and, you know, mix it up and kind of works. Kind of works. It doesn't, but it's. It's again, I would say perspective. Right?

Yeah.

When I was sitting eating my cookout milkshake. Bring it. I would love to be recognized when I was a freshman and I had a broken leg after a subpar season and I was a backup my sophomore year. Please, I'd love to get recognized. Somebody tell me I'm good at what I'm doing or whatever. And so it's all perspective. And I try and, you know, as much as I can, make those interactions as positive and as, you know, profound in a sense of just being authentic in general. Because you never know, right. That impact or that I always see it with the Ronald McDonald House that I work with, the charity event stuff where you can just really be able to try and impact somebody's life. Right. Because you never know what's going on. And that kind of hits on the mental. The mental health of everything. Of like, I always am such a big advocate for the mental health for therapy for especially men, teenage and art, you know, my age, your age, right. To just talk one time because you'll be so profound and so like, wait, what? Like, you're not supposed to think like that. Like, oh, like I'm. That's why I'm always tired at this point. Or this is why whenever I get this, I feel like this when this is going on or.

Sure.

And something that, like a coach or somebody, just to kind of let you know, I call them demons in my head in a sense of just the demons that have gotten me to this point, got me in this chair, that have pushed me to be the, you know, a really good quarterback and, you know, make it through wake, make it to Notre Dame, get through the combine, get through all this draft prep. That pushed me. That probably pushed you in the same way. Whatever you call them, the voices in your head that, you know, that constant drive or also can be very negative in a sense. And all those different things.

Yeah. Self doubt, self limiting belief.

Exactly.

It all rolls in there. And I'll never know what it's like to be a well known person where you go into any town or any city in the country. But there's a lot of good that can come from that. And just a kind word to. You have the opportunity to impact so many and you're doing an amazing job with it. You take the responsibility, clearly, you take the obligation and you take the opportunity to do well. So thank you, Sam, for what you do. Last question. If you had one sentence to speak into someone's life to make an impact, what would that be?

Ooh, that's a good one. I'm proud of you.

Oh, man.

There you go.

That's awesome.

There you go.

Great words. This has been Sam Hartman with Jeff Duden. We have been on the home front. Thank you, Sam.

Awesome. Appreciate you having me on. There we go.

All right.

Yes, sir. Appreciate you.

Yep.