The Secrets To Balancing Music, Comedy, Family and Success | On The Homefront With Jeff Dudan #102

Welcome back to the home front, everybody. This is Jeff Duden and I am here today with Stephen Kellogg, singer, songwriter, stand up comedian and author. I'm very excited about the time we're going to get to spend. Welcome, Stephen.

How are you, my friend?

I am so good, man. Thank you so much for jumping on. Big fan of the music, excited about your stand up and everything you got going on. And I have to tell you, in preparing for this, I got a copy of your book, which is Objects in the Mirror. And you know, sometimes when you get books like, you know, you, they, they, you wonder if they sound like the author. And my sense of this book is like, you wrote this is very authentic to you. The stories are very real. And I don't usually do this, but, you know, I skimmed it pretty good. I probably read a quarter to a half of it getting ready for this. I'm going to go back and read it after we do the show.

Great. I view that as high praise.

Yeah, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So why don't you tell us a little bit, if you don't mind, about early life and maybe, you know, when you realized you were first a creative.

Well, you know, certainly it was always in my head, you know, when I with the family would have barbecues and things like that, and my uncles who were these pretty intimidating characters, would always sing at these pig roasts. And it was very, it was pretty archaic. You know, there'd be like, someone would like have pieces of a broomstick for drumsticks and it was like it was down home music. But I remember feeling like, wow, this is a, this is a great feeling. Now, I didn't realize that was something you could do and make a life of until quite a bit later. But I have an aunt and an uncle who are portrait painters and they've worked together and they're now in their 70s and they've done incredible work, had a lot of achievements, but are also not household names. And through them I started to see as I got to be a teenager, oh, there is like something between starving artists and household name. It does exist in artist life and, and thank goodness I found that because I don't think a lot of us know that that exists. So here I am now, you know, it's been 24 years since I've had a proper employment and it's. And I'm grateful for that, you know.

So you've been, you've been able to make a living doing what you want to do. You got a beautiful family, four kids. Why, like you have Four kids. Why?

And this exact day, Jeff, I'm kind of asking myself that very question. It's. It's the end of a summer, and I. I don't. I think it's changed a lot from when we were kids. You know, Like, I don't. Everybody kind of wakes up like, well, what are we doing today? What's. Like, what? Like, how is the world gonna roll itself out for me? And. And I'm. My wife and I are. We're out about our last nerve by the end of the. We're ready for everybody to go back to school.

How old's your youngest now?

She is 11. Okay. She's 11. So I got 11, 13, 16, and 19.

You got all. You got all mean agers. That's. That's what my grandfather used to call me.

I've never heard that. That's a great one, man. It's. Well, you know, my oldest daughter has been kind of helping us steer the younger ones away from the screenshots. And she. Because she says you don't want to be a screen ager. Which I also thought, oh, I like that. I thought that was a good one, too.

Yeah. Stephen, specifically to your music, when did you first start performing professionally? And then you've toured 21 countries and you've been out on the road a lot. You've done a lot for the military. Talk a little bit about that phase of your life and, you know, the travel, the touring, and then maybe how you balance that out with. With family.

Yeah, well, the. You know, as a kid, you see, I'm seeing rock bands, and I'm starting to think, like, okay, I. I was. I could have been any number of things, but music seemed to be the thing that was standing up the most and announcing itself at that, you know, in high school and then college and after college, it was like, you know, I played places and made more money than I was making staining decks. So I thought, all right, let's. Let's go with this, you know, and that's really where music came from. And then the thing is, if you're going to do that, you know, you gotta. You gotta get out on the road, or maybe you don't nowadays. You know, there are other ways. The world has changed since I was coming up, but that just seemed like what we had to do. And I wanted to be. I knew I wasn't going to be the most talented guy in any of the areas, especially singing or guitar. Songwriting, I felt better at, but I still knew that there were people much better than I am. So I just thought I'll outwork everybody. And I'm not sure. I'm not sure if this. Like, I'm not sure if I would advise this of anyone, but it has sort of. It did make up for a lot, but I just. I was always the guy that said, all right, sure, I'll hit the road. And we started to see some progress in a number of cities, you know, where more and more people would come out. And what's interesting is there were a lot of cities where we didn't see progress, and I still haven't. You know, I've played Lawrence, Kansas, 17 times, and there'll still be a hundred people if I go there. It's. They'll probably never be more, hopefully never be less. But, I mean, that's kind of. And I can't exactly tell you why that is or what that has to do with. I just know. I just knew, all right, I've got to go out and see, you know. And then that eventually led us to Europe and it. And we started feeling like, man, we got to try to give back in some areas. And playing for the military was something that we thought none of us would have made, you know, decent soldiers, I don't think. And we just decided, regardless of any political thing, let's just go play overseas where people need to know that they're being thought of and appreciated. And. And so we. I've done a lot of that over the years, and next thing you know, we're. We're next. Next year, we're going to hit our 3,000, my 3,000th show. So we'll do something special for that. And. But that's. That's a lot of shows, you know.

Yeah. So how many. How much are you touring now? And. Versus the standup comedy that you're. It seems like you're moving towards. I've caught a couple of sets online. Pretty good stuff. I'm really. I'm interested in that in particular, how are you balancing those two pursuits?

I mean, when I. So I did stand up for the first time last May, because my friend owns a comedy club, and he kept coming to the concerts, and he's like, dude, you're talking as much as you're playing and you gotta come do this. And I said, no, these people, like. But I did it last May, and it was awesome. I had so much fun. I went to my wife and said, all the guys you could have married. I'm like, for my next trick here, my next get rich quick scheme is I'm going to do some stand up, but it's been really fun. And I don't tour the way that I used to, but I'm still, you know, I'll do 100 shows in a year and that feels like 275 used to fill. It still feels like a lot of time away from home. And I'm always chasing ways of balancing it like everybody else I know. I mean, I don't know. I know very few people who seem to have some kind of work life balance it. It tilts too much this way. And then you get home and you're happy to be home, but you realize the money go dries up quick and you got to get out and do it again. So it's, you know, it is great work and I'm grateful for it, but it is work that we all do as creatives as well, you know.

Yeah. A real through line in your work is storytelling. Your lyrics are kind of sweet, actually. You know, they're, they're thoughtful, they tell stories. Stand up is. I mean, you're telling stories with, you know, funny stories or whatever it is. And so songwriting and storytelling seems to be, you know, real strength for you and, and, and the writing as well. Where, where do you get your material for all of these different things? What's your inspiration?

It's just, I just, I, I feel like Clark Griswold nine days out of ten, Jeff. And I just started writing down just the stuff that drives me crazy, the stuff that I, the, the ways that I embarrass myself, you know, the awful things that I, that I do or say. You know, I, I don't know that I can stop saying things that are not. That are clunky. But what you can do is sort of. You look at your wife or your friend or your manager or whoever. I'm sorry, I didn't. That was uncalled for. I didn't mean it. You can own it. You can take responsibility, you can apologize and mean it, and then you can put it into the material, you know, because we're all doing this. And when you say it out loud, it takes away some of the shame and embarrassment. I mean, you know, I, I called my 11 year old. Can you swear on here or what? I don't want to.

Sure, sure.

Okay. So, I mean, I caught. This is. A lot of people think that you're such a good dad. You love family. It's a. You love kids. People say I love my kids. I don't love all kids. You know, I love my kids. Is who I love and, and I am an okay dad and I'm a pretty good husband, you know, But I call my, my daughter grad. I called her a little in January. That's not the worst thing you could say. But when it comes out of your mouth, you're like, no matter, it doesn't matter that she was being one. It just like it comes out and you're like, that's, that's not good. Like we gotta figure that out, you know, and somehow. And obviously you go upstairs and you say, look hun, dad's frustrated. Shouldn't have said that. I don't think that I was really frustrated, you know, and you just show them how to be a human and then you take the argument out to where she's not there and you get to go share it with a bunch of parents who, if they haven't said it, certainly wanted to. And you get to all have a laugh about it and go, hey, at least we're trying. And that to me is like serves two purposes. 3. It heals you, you know, it, it lets the audience, it's, there's camaraderie and community in it and hopefully it takes some of the stigma off making mistakes and failing. I mean, if it's like, you know, there's, we're living in an age here where we're, everything looks like it's pretty perfect. There's even, even the, even the reels on Tick tock that are supposed to look like, oh, look what happened to me. They look like they were edited by a professional filmmaker. Like everything has this look to it and I like to keep it real, you know?

Yeah. So much of that set up, the best stuff is when you can tell it's authentic. And unfortunately, you know, the pain and pain in our personal conversations turns into a great bit when you tell it to strangers at a conference or from a stage or wherever you're at. And then, you know, somebody riding their bike into a railing, it hurt them, but man, man, it's, that's a good reel.

It's funny though, you know, and if, if you can laugh at it, it's like it just, it allows you to move on and heal from all this. Otherwise you just amass stuff that you feel bad about. And I, I mean, when I was leaving for my first stand up set, my youngest said to me, she's like, all right, as I'm walking out the door, don't tell any jokes about me. And I'm like, they're all about you. They're all about you so much is about you, about marriage, about family, about working really hard. I think a lot of us are surprised by how hard we, like the coasting. I always envisioned that adults were on some kind of coasting situation. Like, I thought forties. I knew you had to, like, work hard at some point. Early on, I didn't realize I would be working this hard. I'm only 47, but I didn't realize I'd be working hard right now. And. And there's no real, like, end to this, except the end. And that is. That, I think, is the. The crux of the midlife crisis is like, whoa, do I. Do I just do this for the rest of my time? And is there any way not to just do this grind, like, all the time? Like, it is? And that's when you start to go, like, okay, maybe I shouldn't hang out with, like, that friend who's not really a good friend. Like, maybe I need to get rid of them in my life because they're just taking up. I only have this much time, you know?

Yeah.

And that's what I'm like. Like most folks my age, that's kind of where. What. I'm sorting out a lot of it on stage, either through the music, which is you. You. I forget the word you use. I mean, it is thoughtful. I. Hopefully it's not too sentimental. You know, it is. I am. I am a mush. But I. I try to put enough weight and teeth into things, you know, so.

Yeah. Well, the song lyrics, they're very compelling. You know, I watched your ted, and then. And then, you know, then I come across this TED Talk where you do a TED Talk about job satisfaction.

Yeah.

Which, you know, and I'm like, man, like, what? Like, who is? Like, there's so. There's. There's such a. You know, you're finding all of these outlets for your creativity and. And, you know, it's. By the way, it's not easy to get on a TED Talk. Like, you got to be good, and it was really, really good. And then you wrapped it up with a song, which was really, really good. I mean, it was one of the better TED talks, and it was. It was about job satisfaction. Talk about it's better to be at the bottom of a ladder that you want to climb than at the top of one that you don't. Is that. Is that right? Did I get that right?

Yeah, it's better to be at the bottom of a ladder you want to climb than the top of one that you don't.

What does that mean?

So, I mean, and I say this in the TED Talk. I did get that from the Office. The TV show the Office, the English version of the Office had that. And I thought, that's brilliant, you know, and I've seen that in my own life when I was working, selling advertising, every day was so much work. Right after college, I felt like a caged animal. Was very hard to be good at it. And the minute I started doing music and communicating and kind of just getting to say, hey, here, here's what I think, you know, at that moment I was playing in a three, four hour sets in a steakhouse and I was getting paid maybe 150 bucks, you know, to do that work. But I felt really good. Even though that was not a glamorous gig or what I was aspiring to. I just thought, man, I would rather work like a dog at this one thing. You know, it's better to be at the bottom of something going, well, I've got one life here and I'm going to try to spend it playing music and sharing my point of view. Then the middle or the top of something that you're not compelled to do. That said, sometimes we have to do things we don't want to do, you know?

Right.

I'm trying to teach that to my kids right now. I think they're growing up with a real ability to get A's, but not always the common sense and resourcefulness that I think the next generation is going to need. You know, not to throw them under the bus, but I came home one night and everybody said, thank goodness you're home, we're starving. And I was like, what do you. There's food here. And what did you eat, like? And they're like, well, we didn't know what to do. I'm like, you guys are. You're gonna starve if you don't have the ability to let go. I'm hungry. There's cabinets full of food. There's a kitchen like, like, you've got to be able to make food and be resourceful. And so sometimes we have to do things we don't want to do. Me included. You know, you just do what you have to do. And that's why the know why you're working was such an important part of that. You know, if you know that you're working to take care of someone you love, you can find a lot of energy and resourcefulness in that. But whenever you have the chance to climb a ladder worth climbing, something that actually compels you Somewhere you want to get. I think you gotta do that. You know, it doesn't matter if you do. You don't have to do it when you're 20. You could be, you can change careers in the middle of your life. That's being proven so much right now every day. You know, you just gotta do it. You just start and you know, things have a way of working out when you're passionate about them. In my experience.

Yeah, 100%. You know, if you just. There's a lot of different ways to make money. If money's all you want, right. And you can work really, really hard doing, there's lots of jobs where you can make tons and tons of sales jobs and all this kind of stuff. But question is, is money really the outcome? Is it going to give you a great life or do you want to live a great life regardless of the money? And you know, do. I mean I gave up a lot like I, you know, I coached, I gave away tens of millions of dollars a year business in favor of franchising a business because I wanted to be home. And I ended up coaching like 30 seasons of my kids sports and if you're, if you're going to coach and then you know, so that I'm building this franchise company which is basically groups of like five to 10 people. So they're like little sports teams. So I'm coaching the owners how to coach their teams. I'm coaching these little sports teams. It's lighting me up on both ends of it. I probably left some money on the table because what I didn't do, like what you said when you tour around, like if you really want to get movement, you got to go out into the world and get it done. So if you, you know, you're not going to grow your music, if you're not out there in front of people where people are connecting with you city after city and whatever. And it's the same thing in business. Like if you don't go out and, and meet the people you need to meet and be where you need to be, then you're just the opportunities pass or are given to the people that are there.

Yeah.

So it's definitely a balance and everybody's got to decide, you know, what are the real priorities in your life. What do you really care about? You know, at the end of the day if you look back and you, you know, you die with X dollars or x, you know, 2x dollars, you know, you're still dead and your body of work speaks for itself. And nobody's really going to care about how much, how much stuff you had. They're going to remember, like, you know, the impact that you made to the people closest to you.

I agree. I mean, what's the legacy? You know, that's a, that's a big theme. And a lot of what I do is what's, what's the legacy going to be? And, and I've told my kids a few times, I don't know, I was like, I don't, don't bank on money. I'm giving you guys songs, I'm giving you guys good information, you know, like, you might have, you might get some money. This, this may work out yet. But I, I mean, it is working out, but I say that sort of tongue in cheek, but it's like I.

Experiences.

Yeah. You know, just like something, here's something you can use, you know? So let me ask you, Jeff, when you were coaching.

Yes.

You coach, you say you coached 30, like, 30 seasons altogether.

Yeah. So a little bit of soccer with my daughter and then basketball for her. Lots and lots of baseball with my two boys. Lots and lots of football with my two boys, a little bit of basketball. I coached them up basically. You know, they went to a little private school, so parents were allowed to coach in middle school.

Okay.

So, yeah, so I coached them. I usually, you know, I coached them kind of up to or up through middle school, at least. The boys. I, I was, I didn't know soccer very well. My daughter, she outgrew me. She still outgrows me. But what were your.

So what. So, because I, I coached just a little during the pandemic, when I was finally home and they needed coaches, I got the call and I, I, I, I'm like, looking up the positions of soccer 10 minutes before the first thing it was. And, and I found, you know, I got, I live in the suburbs, and everybody thinks their kid's gonna, like, get a scholarship. So it's, there's obnoxious parents behind you yelling things. It's very stressful. I found it to be one of the most stressful things, also incredibly rewarding. And I always wanted to turn around and be like, why don't you volunteer? Or why don't you shut up? Like, I definitely didn't have a lot of patience for the parents yelling things on the sidelines and stuff. But what I'm curious about is what was your, what were some of your, like, what was your philosophy as a coach? What did you, what did you do with the, with the kids?

Well, I can't Believe you asked me that. So while we're here on the podcast, I wrote a book. When I was done coaching my last season, I wrote a book to put my philosophy in it.

Come on. That's great.

Yeah. It's called hey, Coach. So, you know, I had. So my thing was I would. I would. You know, I basically learned over time to make it. You know, the goal is, is by the end of the season, you want to turn the team over to the kids. You want to give them autonomy, you want to give them ownership of it and so that they can play fast, loose, happy, and for each other. So we would break the season down into thirds and the first third. Well, even before that, I would invite every parent to participate. So. So if we're doing a little football team and there's 18 or 20 kids on it, we would have one parent doing the timeouts, the clocks. One parent would do the special teams, one parent would do this. We'd have a little meeting before, and I'd invite the parents to talk to them because everything.

That's some private school level involvement you got right there. I'm impressed.

No, that was like in Jeff. A league or that was like in peewee Peewee football.

Awesome. And everybody came out and. Okay, sorry.

Yeah, yeah. So it's like. But like, because what. All the stuff you try and do to get the kids to. To believe that they're in the right position, doing the right thing for the team gets undone in the car on the way home. So if you say, hey, parents, you stay over there. I've got your kids. Don't talk to them. No coaching from the sidelines. Well, then as soon as they get in the car, they're just going to get their ears chewed off with all the things that the coach is doing wrong. And why is Susie playing, you know, this or, you know, why don't. You know, there's only one football, right? So whatever it was, baseball, basketball, whatever, we would. I would drill the fundamentals for, like, the first third of the season and really focus on, like, getting them to do one thing really, really well. Whenever we got them in the right spots, you know, we'd sometimes lose a game early or stuff like that, but they would. They would be very, very capable. And then in the. In the middle portion of the season, we'd make sure that we got them all in the right spots. And then we'd start to put in the concepts of, you know, really a little bit more offensive philosophy, defensive philosophy, things like that. And the last third of the season we would try to turn it over to them. So if you came and I had a bunch of 12 year old football players and you saw us warming up, you would, it would look like a little college warmup because they're all warming themselves up where, you know, the linebackers are taking little drops and the DBs are warming up and the quarterbacks and receivers are throwing just like you'd see like before a college game. If you look at the other little team of 12 year olds, you know, they're standing in a line, they're doing push ups to a whistle and you know, they're, they're, they're in a very, very regimented discipline type push ups to a whistle.

Good lord. This is what you do in peewee in your town.

Oh yeah. And, but, but the point is, is like intense is like you would, you know, like, I think that people underestimate the like, kids are just as smart as we are, they're just less experienced. And if you give them permission to think and you give them the accountability, like they really want to learn, right? And then there's, and then, you know, then they've got to like, it always has to, you always got to do special little things to make sure that, you know that you, you break any of the clicks and you, you manage that. So it was really, it was very much a system that me and some of these other parents developed over this, over these, you know, five or six years. And I'm telling you, say whatever you want. We were always in the championship at the end of the year.

Oh, I'm sure you were. Man, you sound like you coach in a college team there. That's, that's, that's a lot.

I mean, yeah, but they, they. And the thing is, is like, it's like, you know, and then, you know, in the off season, the parents, you know, if they could request to be on a team, they'd always request to like be on our team because, because it was such a, it was such a good experience for the kids. And you got to remember it's not about, it wasn't about like our goal was that we would all be the best we could be on the last day of the season. Whenever that was. It wasn't we're going to win these games or we're going to do that. And then I had like seven, I had three little like tablets of principles, right? I had player rules, parent expectations and coaching commitments. So if you want to be a coach, you just don't coach your kid. You have to coach Them all. So I had five or seven little phrases and it was just, you know, so it was like this little playbook of maybe 10 pages. And that was the whole system that we had. And, and it really worked. And you were very prepared, man.

And they were lucky to have, they are lucky to have you. And that's so cool that you, that you did it, that you made a thing of it. You know, I think that's, I think that's great, man. I think it's great. I think, I think the stuff I was coaching was definitely. It's just small town. We had, we had second grade co. It was co ed second grade girls through fourth grade and boys as well. So we had fourth grade boys playing with second grade girls in the middle of the pandemic. And I was, That's a young, that's.

A younger age group. That's a little bit more, I mean, dude, give them, give them popsicles.

I just wanted to give them like air and like I, and I, and we were one in nine. I mean, but, but, but we. How be anything. All I cared about. I'm like, all right, I'm Seabiscuit out there. Like, believe in yourself, guys. I never said I was. I just, they just couldn't get anybody. And they're like, will you do it? I'm like, I'll show up. I'll show up and try. But they were lucky to have you, man. That's very cool.

Well, you know, when you're in the younger, you know, that was kind of the, the, you know, the, the, the getting ready for middle school, you know, 12 year old type kid type thing. And, but, you know, at the younger ages, it was, you know, popsicles and stories and all of that, whatever was age appropriate, right? And, but the most important thing was that they, the kids had fun. They, they learned something valuable and they wanted to come back. Like at the end of the day, like, if, if you coach in such a way where half the kids are upset or they're sh. Or they don't like the way, you know, they don't want to come back or they didn't get anything out of it, then, like, what's the point? Like, there's no, you know, nobody's winning a gold medal in fifth grade. I mean, it's, you know, you have such an opportunity to, to pour into these young people and to do something meaningful and, and, and you know, you know, give them a great experience and, and you know, I still see these kids. I mean, I coached, you know, hundreds and hundreds of Kids over that time. So as I'm walking around town or I'm somewhere, I'll hear, hey, you know, it's the best thing. Well, hey, coach. Dude. And now they're 6 foot 2 and I have no idea who they are.

Yeah, right. There's some kid.

And that's just the girls.

That's awesome, man. That's. That's good for you. What a. What a. That's part. That's a huge part of your legacy. That's great. I don't. I don't. I will have no such legacy as that. But I enjoyed it and I showed up and I endured the. What's he doing in midfield? I'm like, damned if I know, man. But you're welcome to come take this job from me if you want it. Otherwise, shut up. But if they had been around you, you would have been like, come on in, be part of the team. And I think that's a better way to do it. And that's why you coach 30 seasons and I coach three. So there we go.

Well, you know, showing up is half the battle. And bless you for doing it. Another thing from the TED talk, and it kind of plays into children. You said, understand the positive effects of your work, and you talked about going to St. Jude Children's Research Hospital and playing for these kids. And just as backdrop of that, with my previous business that we sold in 2019, we were one of 65 national strategic partners with St. Jude Children's Research Hospital. We did environmental services like duct cleaning and mold remediation. So anytime we had 240 locations, anytime that a child either survived a protocol at St. Jude in Memphis or any of the pediatric oncology hospitals that use the St. Jude protocols, and they would have a child that would need to go home because they had survived their treatment and they had a mold problem or an indoor air quality problem, our franchise owners would go out and do those jobs for either free or at a reduced cost. It was a real big part of, like, who we were and what we did. And I really. You said that when you played at St. Jude and the people were smiling back at you, it meant it changed something in you.

It did. Well, I think that when I mentioned the military stuff before, you know, that this thing starts to awaken in you. For me, it was in my late 20s of like, oh, I'm not the center of the universe, you know? And so you're like, well, what? You know, there's often a tendency to want to wait until things are set to kind of give back or do something. Unless you've truly just grown up with service as a part of your, you know, daily diet, which is great if you can, then I think. So this. So this kind of dawned on us and, and I. And. And the people, the band that I was working with in the team, I was like, you know, we may never be you two. And, and so what can we do now? Like today? What. What can we. I think people want to do more. More in the world, but don't always. You don't always know how. Like, how do I help other humans other than just money? If you have money, that's. That's a great one and that's awesome. But. But other than that, what can you do? You know, like. And sometimes it's hard to connect to that. And so I had had this conversation with my then manager, and he said, well, you're going to be in Memphis. Why don't I reach out to the hospital and see if they want to have some music? And I didn't realize it, but at the time, I think we were like the first group to ever go. We did it like a prom for the kids. It didn't really matter what age you were. And we did that prom and they got dressed up and they had. And we played songs and, you know, and, and talked to the. To them and then to their. Their families were kind of around to having it. And then we went back a few more times and just. You just start realizing, I mean, the amount of people we impacted that day might have been 40, 50, but it's a. It's you. It just. You go, wow, I have to do that again because I feel like I definitely hadn't played a gig that month. That felt more important, you know, that felt like make it made more of a difference or a memory. Like these people will remember this experience that I got to be part of. So then you start craving it. And as a result, that's when we started really upping it and going to a lot more children's hospitals. And I tried to make it more a part of our fundraising that we do at the end of the year. And, you know, I mean, what we raise is tiny, you know, but financially. But the thing I can do is go into these and be with the families and be with the kids. And I try to do that every year. And. And we would do a little bit of that and a little bit of the military, and it really helps us. It helped. It helped me more than I think I helped any anybody else out there, but it really just thought, I just thought like, okay, I'm doing something that makes me feel like I'm make doing something of value with my life, you know?

Yeah. We would attend partner summit in Memphis and tour the hospital, spend three days there. Tour the hospital. And it's just, you know, it's, it's inspiring and it's, it changes you and it sets your perspective back probably to where it needs to be.

Yeah.

So we're running, you know, we get all self involved, running through our lives. I got to do this, I got to do. You can't. You know, you're doing all this stuff and then that just like stops you in your tracks and it's like this is a whole city here in Memphis that's been built to save these people's lives. You know, when they started St. Jude, you know, 80% of the people didn't survive leukemia. And now, you know, I think they have over 90%.

Yeah.

Survival rate. And it's just they've, they've flipped this, they flipped the scale on, you know, childhood leukemia and so many other important things.

And, and, and the, the, the thing they do where they share all their research, you know, which, which hospitals weren't doing because they wanted to be the one that found things and it, they just made it. Here's everything we know, here's everything we got. Like this is a. And, and you're not going to have to pay, you're not gonna have to worry about your bills while you're here. This is going to be funded. Obviously not all hospitals can do that, but it's. When you're dealing with that kind of catastrophe, what a huge relief to not have that part of the thing breaking your heart as well, you know. And those things I found to be extremely inspiring too, of like you can, you can have a huge organization and you can create win wins for people. Like we're going to cure cancer and we're going to help these parents and this business. This is going to go. You know, I think I'd like to see more giant businesses thinking that way of how can we, how can we do as much possible good for the world while we're out here doing our thing, you know.

Yeah. It's kind of interesting, you see these situations where some situation of need goes viral and then, you know, there's a million dollars raised through apps or whatever it is like that. But on the other hand, I also feel that we're really a lot less connected and we're, I think people, you know, we're, we're inside of these phones and we're inside of these apps and we're, we're living in a fast world with our attention. There's never been more competition for our attention and you know, getting people to physically do things anymore it seems, I don't know, I don't know if it's easier or harder right now. It's, it's a, it's a, it's a double edged sword but feels hard.

It feels, I have nothing to compare it to but it certainly seems that the sense of disconnection and that people are having in the world is. And we're all kind of talking about it like ah, that you know, why all this anxiety and this depression up and all this stuff like that. And it's like obviously it's this, it's that we're not with people in the same way anymore. We're in the phone like you said four hours a day. That doesn't even make my eye. I don't even think about that. When it says your screen average was four and a half hours last week. It's just a week. I mean four and a half hours just spent just doing whatever. I mean how can you, how could you possibly feel connected to people with that?

Yeah, it's. I tell you, I feel bad when I, you know, I saw these memes going around of course online and I was desk scrolling that said 18 minutes a day is 100 hours a year and you could learn to play an instrument in 100 hours. You could write a book in a hundred hours. You could, you know, all. Here's all the things that you could do in a hundred hours and it's only 18 minutes a day. And then it's like what did you waste 18 minutes a day? Do you know? Did you waste. Oh man, I waste.

Wow.

I waste, you know, half. I probably, you know, I don't know that I don't. Wait, I don't waste half my day.

Yeah. You know, getting some powerful metric. So I mean, you know, I'm trying to teach the kids, I'm trying to model it but it's, it's, it's not really happening. I mean I'm still, I, and I, I think about that too because one of the talks that I get so in between the stand up and the rock and roll shows and stuff, I do do a bit of speaking and I kind of. One of the talks that I tend to give if I'm talking to a company is like, what does it mean to be successful? What is it really how do we get a definition of success that really holds up, that moves beyond the obvious metrics of, you know, of the, of money or accolades, you know, what else you know? And, you know, I think so much of it is I find myself living a life I would not trade places with anyone, living or dead. I am. And yet I, I struggle to, to feel successful. Why is that? That's the question I go back to. And you kind of look at it and go, all right, what, what could success be if it's not that, you know, and trying to get a definition that, that you can use as your true north to keep you, to keep you there. When you've spent too much time death scrolling and filled your head with toxic.

Crap, you know, I think it shows you all the things that you're probably missing. It used to be people would go to work, kids would go to school, you'd come home, there'd be chores to do, everybody eats together, extended family gets together on Sunday, has a meal. People get together on Sunday, they have a meal. And life was within a set of boundaries. There was, you know, you could watch the television and listen to the radio, but other than that, like, if you had an idea and you, you said, you know, there was there, you couldn't put it in some little instrument and realize that a million other people have already had that idea, like, you could pursue that idea or, you know, I want to do this. There was nobody to tell you that you shouldn't do it in terms of, you know, that it's already been done. So, I mean, it's, it's, it's a blessing and it's a curse. But I think to your point, mental health, the depression, depression, anxiety, I mean, add, ocd, all of these things are so much more prevalent. I think a lot of it has to do with our diet, actually.

You look healthy as hell, man. I'm looking at you like, I'm like, whoa, you're you. This guy can coach and he's healthy looking.

No, it's. We got a filter. We put it over the camera so.

It looks good, man. I need some of that. I'm looking.

It's a cut we reflected off a carnival mirror. So it just kind of, kind of does that. You should. I'm five to 480. I'm sure, I'm sure, but. Well, awesome. So do any of your kids have musical talent? Are they. Well, now I. Wait, let me rephrase that. You, you know, if they're talented or not. Do any of your kids pursue music.

They do a little bit. You know, I, I, I'm not, I don't push it on them. I, I, but they grew up around it, especially the, the, really, all four of them do. And they've all been on stage with me. You know, I, I told them at a young age, like, people pay for the tickets so you can't just come out there because you're cute. But if you want to sing, dance, play an instrument, if you can add to the show in any way, you're always welcome. I love to perform with you.

Oh, that is so cool.

And, and so two summ opening for Counting Crows for the summer and the oldest two joined me on the road and were singing part of the set with me. And then Counting Crows love their singing so much. They invited them to sing with them too. And then we all put out a single last summer together of all of us singing, which was. That's a dream come true for me. I'm singing with a band I grew up idolizing and, and then my, my two girls and we get to share, share that and we'll do some more of that. Recently my oldest has been playing a bit of piano in the band for a few songs too. So they do it. I think it's there, I hear it. There does seem to be some reluctance on their part to pursue it. I don't know if it's because they don't want to or if it's because they think that they need to be perfect at it before they've even started. And like every parent, I sort of go in there and try to figure that out with them, but I tread a little bit lightly because I don't want to, I don't want them to, I don't want to over pressure them and I don't want to also ignore the fact that they're quite good at, at singing and playing. Yeah, they're better than the average Bear. And I'm like, you guys could kind of, you know, it's like your kids probably could coach. They watched you coach for all these years. They're going to learn something, you know, about, about how that goes, you know.

Yeah, yeah, they, it was, it was time with them that you couldn't, you couldn't manufacture being in situations, being under stress with them, you know, strategizing with them, you know, them being hurt or, and driving them home in the car, stopping by the, you know, I mean, things happen. So like all of that time was just, it was just going through battle with them and I don't, I can't think of another way.

Yeah.

You know, we had Sean Merriman on this week. He was a linebacker for the San Diego, San Diego Chargers and just a beast of a guy. And he, you know, talking about players and he says, you know, yeah, even if we knew how bad this was going to be for our bodies and how many surgeries I've had and the risk of it all, he goes, 95% of us would do it again anyway. And it just. Because what you learn from performing in any capacity, whether it's on stage with you, I mean, there's stress in that, right? I mean, sure. Get, get traveling there. What's it going to be like? Just getting into the hotel, you know, getting the band set up, going out, doing like the whole process is like, it's, it's on the job, training for life.

Yeah, it is.

You can't. Yeah.

And it's, it's this adrenaline. You get, you know, this adrenaline thing and you go through it and it's like, oh, people like, you're having so much fun. It's like, it's really fun to have done it. And I. And it's not, it's not unfun, but it is. But when you're doing it, it's focus, you know, I'm sure it's the same for athlete. You're just, you're just trying to hit your marks and you're trying to do the thing that you know you're capable of doing at the best possible, highest possible level. Same when I'm giving a talk or doing a stand up set, you're just trying to land it. The fun part is kind of like when it's over and you're like, I did it. You know, that's like where the fun of it is. And I, I think if nothing else, my hope for the girls is having done this will be that they know they can get up. Like, you know what I say is, I say it's like having butterflies. There's benevolent butterflies. They're coming to land on all over you and wake you up. You got this gift you got to go give and you're a little, you're like, what are these things doing on me? Okay, I'm awake. You feel a little. Oh, I feel this nerves. But you're gonna just, they're just making sure you're awake and alert and at your top game. Then you go out, you do the thing and you go, all right, we're good. And then you have the satisfaction and confidence of having done that, that you Know. And that's, that's the reward.

Yeah, man. When I'm giving a talk and I know it's going well and now I'm down maybe to the last five or 10 minutes.

Yeah.

It's like, that's the best, right?

Yeah.

Is it that way? Because you're like, this went well. They loved it. I've got my, you know, I've got my last two songs to go and I'm just gonna cruise on through. This is for me now, right?

Yeah.

Because you, because you've delivered, you've delivered on.

That's true. Yeah, totally. That's the absolute, the encore. You walk out.

Yeah.

There are people who are on their feet and you're like, I'm relaxed for the first time all evening right now. I'm, I'm, you know, and, and then you. And, and once in a blue moon, you just get there quicker. You get there right at the top. You just know, you're like, I got this thing's in my hands. Like, I've had a few over the years where you just, you know, I've had a few in the different mediums, but you just know you got it. And that's an incredible feeling. You do feel like you're, you're soaring, but that's. But, but that's not every day, you know, that's unique when that happens. It's, it's, you know, that that last five minutes you talked about is very common. Thank God. Still doesn't mean that you're not a little bit amped up right before you're going to go do the thing again, you know?

Yeah, you know? No. Well, and that's, that's the, the, the pleasure and the joy that you get from making the choice that you made to do what you do. And, you know, and it's, it's meaningful on the standup. Do you have different kinds of nerves before you go out for stand up than you do for performing musically?

Yeah, I mean, I was so nervous before that first stand up set. I just, it was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I was, I just thought, why do I do that? Why am I doing this to myself? And I was, I was doing it set at a cigar bar comedy club. It was like not some high stakes situation, but I was, it felt unreal. Then I went out, I did it, it went well. I just did 15 minutes that first time to Strangers Nobody I knew went well. And I was like, okay. I think the nerves. There's two kinds of nerves. You get nerves that are sort of just amped up nerves. And those are good. Those wake you up, like I was talking about. You do get nerves if you're not prepared. You know that because. And those. Those are. That's information. That's like you're anxious for a reason. You're not prepared enough, you know? Right. And the trick with standup is I don't have 20 plus years of. I mean, music. If I had to, I could just walk out into any situation. I can figure it out, you know, I mean it. I. So you get those nerves. You're like, all right, I'm gonna. There's so much sense memory comedy. It's new to me. I mean, you're into this thing, so it's not like. It's not like I live and breathe these beats on these bits and stuff, so I have to really kind of propel myself into it. And sometimes the nerves I have are just because I'm like, damn, I know what great looks like. And I don't have the facility yet. And that's scary.

Have you bombed yet? Have you bombed yet?

I haven't bombed. I have had jokes bomb.

Okay?

And if it's just. And having a joke bomb, maybe this is just 47 at work, but it's kind of awesome. You're kind of like, oh, this isn't gonna kill me. Yeah. You know, that's what I say.

It's not fatal.

Yeah. It's not. I mean, litter. It's. It's really, really not. Because I've tangled it up in my music career a bit now. There is a little bit of fear that I'm playing fast and loose with our livelihood. But I have to say, I've also, you know, that it hasn't. I started with. It's not like I started from nothing because of so many years of storytelling in between. You know, going for an hour, that's a little. That's. That has the potential to be a bit scary. And I'm not.

How much do you have right now?

I mean, I could easily. I could do an hour. I just. It's not all organized to, like, where I wouldn't. I would need some notes at this point, and I'm. By the time we shoot this thing, you know, I've got to. I've got to have it. Have it much more in the blood. But where are you.

Where you play? Okay, so we're doing. We've got two comedy specials coming up. Fairfield, Connecticut, on October 23rd. Where is that?

That is. So that's southern Connecticut about an hour outside the city. And it's at a beautiful old theater that I used to go to growing up, like to see movies in middle school and stuff. So I'm. It feels like that one's sort of a homecoming. Reason I chose that one.

Okay.

I don't live there anymore, but I, but I, but I chose that one. And then we do two nights later, the park west in Chicago, which is a cool kind of. It's got red booths and it's got a kind of Vegasy feel.

Yeah.

Both. I could have, I. I could have and probably should have chose small comedy clubs to work in as a new comic. But this is like the, the crazy part of me that just said, well, I think I might like it to. I might like to do it in theaters. So now we're in these bigger things. I mean, I'm not saying I'm making all the right decisions, Jeff. I'm just making decisions, you know, like.

So what are you gonna, what are you gonna shoot for? Are you gonna shoot for like 50 minutes?

Yeah, I'll do, I'll do an hour. You know, a lot of times what I, where I have been doing most of my stand up. I walk out and I kind of set people up at the beginning of the night and say, here's the game plan. I think a game plan goes a long way. Here's a game plan. I'm going to sing you a few songs, then I'm going to do a stand up set, then I'll play a few more songs so people kind of know what's coming. And it kills some of the restless vibes. Now for these nights because we have a film crew and we're taping it and there's, you know, that's. We're pretty invested in that, capturing that piece. We'll probably have the director go out and say, all right, here's what's happened. Instead of me, here's what's happening. Kellogg's going to come out here, do an hour of comedy, and then I've told everybody that's bought a ticket. Then I will stand on stage for however long until they kick us out and play music and we'll, you know, raise a glass of champagne and have. And celebrate, you know that. But I have about an. I have an hour of material that I'm focused on. I've done all of it, but I've done it in usually in like a half hour chunk or a 40 minute chunk, you know, and so my hope is in telling people, hey, we're shooting an hour, they'll just relax into it and enjoy the experience of, you know, the different topics we're going to cover. And it's, it's an outline, it's like a play, you know, in that sense.

So I'll do like keynotes. I do different trainings. I mean I've done a hundred minute keynote for a room of 400 people that I didn't know who they were. You know, they didn't know.

That's a pretty good length for a keynote. That's a long one.

Yeah. And, and I got, you know, and it's stuff that I've been doing for years and so it's all kind of built on its stuff and it's businessy stuff. But I work in a good half a dozen jokes in. Yeah. And like, I think it's just for me, but it does break it up a little bit and they're not bad. But I don't know about you, but like, so, you know, I, I aspire to do stand because I, I'm in front of people a lot, but I never get to just do a set and, But I have a, I have like 297 bits in my phone of just the observational things that I need to develop.

Yeah.

And I think I could get an. I know I could get an hour. But here's the thing. A lot of the stuff that I got doesn't, doesn't go well with the CEO role. You know what I mean? Sure. It's like, I don't know, like I don't think I can really do it. You know, I mean, I don't think I could do some of it for sure. And I don't know that I'm so, so I don't know when it's going to happen.

You should, man, you should just go down to. If you got a, do an open mic, you should just go find somebody to give you 10 minutes and think about 10 of the things, you know, three or four of the things you'd like to talk about. Because that was the thing that made me go, oh, what's so fun and cathartic about this was also, you know, like you, you have your CEO, the CEOs you're talking to. Okay. I have this role that people where I'm kind of this like Harry Chapin, Dan Fogelber. I'm like, they know me as this like nice songwriter guy. Some of the jokes I want to tell are a little, they're not, they're not dirty jokes, but they're like, they're not you know, it's making fun of my kids and my marriage and my wife, and some of that stuff doesn't play as well when you're singing a sweet song. So getting to just go be in an environment where you don't have that expectation on you is. Is incredibly fun. And for me, those bits you said, you know exactly how many. Yeah. You put them on note cards. You look at the ones that you think would be the funnest to talk about, and you talk about. I mean, sometimes what I realize is I'll try a bit and I'll realize, okay, I'm not articulating what I think is funny about this as well, you know, because people aren't just. And that's when a joke actually pops. You're like, either either this isn't as funny as I think, or I just haven't cracked it yet, you know?

Yeah.

And there's a lot of humor in that. Nine times out of 10, what happens, though, is if it's. If you don't quite have it yet, you get a laugh. You know, you can just tell it's not as big as the laugh of the thing that you really conveyed really clearly. So I try to tape all the shows, too, and you listen back and that. It's painful, but it's so productive and useful, you know?

Yeah. Yeah, that's. You got to invest that time. It's. I. The feedback from Stand up is. Is pure and immediate. Like, there's no. There's no lack of clarity. Totally around, like, whether you got it or not. And especially, you know, so if they, like, if I'm doing a keynote and it's in the franchising industry, and I'll go to a room and there's a couple hundred people in there, I have some positional power. I have some reputation like you, really. It's not an independent audience. Like, they're there because they want to hear what you've got to say about how you did what you did and how they can use that in doing what they do. So it's very much a. It's almost like a. Like a lecture, you know? And then what I try to do is try to make it fun with some clean, you know, some good, clean humor along the way that they don't see coming. And then it kind of breaks it up, and it makes sure that everybody's, you know, reset and paying attention, and then you just. You go on with your next thing and. Yeah, and. And I've developed this thing. I could almost do it in my Sleep. Because I've probably done it 200 times, whether it be in a training for our own franchisees or whatever. But, you know, I really want to go and walk into somewhere and you know, where you're just, they're just going to judge you based on the quality of your content and your delivery, what's.

In front of them. Yeah, I, I envy what you're describing that you have with your business rap and, and, and I appreciated before when you said you're doing, you're doing this and you're doing that and, and, and that's been a great joy for me as an artist, but it's also been a little bit of a curse because I am. Nothing's ever fully in there. You know, I'm talking to CEOs and then I'm talking to a school and it's creative, it's just, you're always, there's always something a little. And then you're writing a book and then you're doing a little stand up and then it's a rock show with the band and it's a rock show solo. And so there is a sense inside me that I never quite get any, anything down entirely because I'm always jumping around and a little part of me loves that, but because, but I also crave that just having something that you just know what's going to happen with it. It's been, the last five years have been exciting and also just like I have craved that, you know, a little more of just knowing what I'm going to be walking into and who the audience is going to be, what it's going to be, you know.

Yeah. So, Stephen, is there, is there something that you know, that you will do in the future that you haven't done yet?

That's a great question. I always have so many things on my plate, you know, that I want to be getting into. Like, I've got, I'm three quarters of the way through a novel right now and I think I never wanted to.

Okay, so fiction, your fiction book.

But I think a fiction book might be, might be the, you know, the next crazy thing to do that I haven't totally finished yet. And right now, honestly, this special, it ain't. I haven't done it yet, you know, but, but I believe that is gonna happen. I mean, it's on sale and we're going. But it, you haven't done it till you've done it. And, and that feels like a, a huge thing to have to. A bit off.

So now is that going to be recorded and played somewhere.

Yeah, we're. We're talking to a few partners about it, most of whom are eager to see what we get first before they, you know. And then we'll see what the distribution channels will be and how. How big a fish we can catch with all that. You know, if nothing else, we're in a world where you go, all right, YouTube, here we go, and it's out.

Yeah. Right. Yeah.

So we know that. We know it's not going to go unseen unless I really tank, which isn't gonna happen.

No.

So. And if it does, we'll just take this part of this interview and then juxtapose it with me tanking. And that will be funny.

I'll just. We'll cut. Jen, cut those in.

Exactly. Cut. Yeah.

This is Stephen Kellogg's worst jokes.

What could go wrong? And then it's bang, bang, boom, boom, monkeys on the screen, you know.

Hey, I. I do have a question. I'm really interested in your. Your answer to this. This. The future of music, performance artists as it relates to things like AI and some of these technologies where it's so easy now to replicate things. Voice enhancers. You can sing into your computer now, and it can clean you up and. And you sound good. Are you seeing. Are you feeling anything with all of this technology? So making it easier or harder for you to do what you do.

That's a great question and something I'm fascinated by right now. I think it. I think to answer to moving backwards, the part of your question, does it make it easier or harder? I think it very much depends on the type of artist you are. I think for a lot of younger artists right now who are more comfortable, who just grew up recording their own music, I mean, GarageBand was like the beginning for them, and then it kind of turned into, like, you know, getting comfortable with all this software and stuff. I think probably for them, it will be less of a journey. For me, I don't ever totally see myself embracing a lot of aspects of that, you know, and that. A friend of mine about two months ago played me a song, and it was his lyrics, and he just plugged in, you know, Americana voice like Brandy Carlisle pedal steel. And he put his lyrics in and he. It spit out a song that was so terrific, that was played so well, and it was being sung. And so when I played it for one of my friends, other friends, he said, who's the singer? And I said, the singer is no one. This isn't somebody that exists. This is the machine. And we both sat there for a minute, like, trying to ponder the implications. Not just in, oh, the kids are changing everything, but, like, what does that mean if you can find something so pleasing out of the computer? And then I was in the studio last week making music and I did have the. I remembered that, oh, part of the thrill of this is you make the music because this experience is your experience. You do it. Oh, I had to slog it out. And that guitar is not perfect, but it is like, I had to go through something to get that on there. And then the singing I had to go through and it's not perfect. And then leaning into that, leaning into the humanity of the music. Will there. Will there still be a market for people that can. That want to feel something more authentic? I. I love authenticity wherever I find it, you know, and the perfectness of that other song, probably I won't like as much as something that I can hear the. But eventually, will. Will that desire die off? It might like. It might. Enough people grow up never hearing an out of tune note sung. Is it just gonna be like, why would I listen to it out of? Like, why would I ever want that? You know?

Right.

And I'm told Spotify is like a lot of their jazz playlists and stuff now is just like, AI. You know, it's not.

Why, why would. Why would they pay for it if they can just create it?

Right?

So that's like, that's kind of what it comes down to, right? It's like, is the. The consumer is going to determine what you can get away with. And, you know, hey, maybe Milli Vanilli was just ahead of their time.

It's true. I mean, you know, I mean, the things that people got in trouble for were a lot less than what people are doing. Right? I mean, you go to. You go to like a huge con. I'll take my kids to a huge festival. And the amount of times that there's some band or kid or somebody out on stage with just a mic and they hit the tracks and I'm like, this is karaoke. They're just karaoke to their tracks. And they're charismatic and they've got good moves, but it's not. It looks so incredibly easy to do. And I, and I. And yet I look around and I'm like, well, everybody's okay with this. Everybody's having fun. Nobody has a problem with this. And this is selling, and it's selling a lot more than I'm selling right now with my guitar. So I'm like, I Can't deny that the marketplace is. It's driving it. It's cause for concern. You know, it's one of the reasons I'm exploring author and speaker. And I mean, it's led me to a lot of other things. I'm not. I'm not curling up in the fetal position going, oh, what was me? They took music away from me. I'm a little sad about it. I miss my kids. May never know what it was, what it's like to form a band and slog it out to get to, you know, but there's not a demand for it.

Yeah, play that like 10, 000 hours to get, you know, to the Beatles, to play together for the. All of these stories about bands. Hey, I watched the Nickelback documentary last night. I don't know where you stand on that. I think you know, but. Well, I like Nickelback. I'll say it. I'm saying it right now. I don't care. Haters jump into the comments. I'm a Nickelback fan.

I am 100 with you, and I can't let you say that and not. Not share this. So in 2018, my manager called and said, we got a call from Nickelback's management, and they want you to come do this event. And I said, well, what is it? And she's like, well, I didn't know. I didn't call him. I'm like, who the are we? Like, call him back. What is this? So she called and I had written a song called such a Way early in my career that they really liked, and they had this event and they had a cancellation, and they wanted me to fly up to Vancouver and play it with them. And I was like, great. So I went up, they played acoustic, and they couldn't have been nicer people. Which I haven't seen the documentary yet, but I am told it displays their. They're incredibly generous, they're kind, they're friendly. There's nothing wrong there. I mean, they're everybody you'd want to hang out with, and they're giving music to a lot of people that love it. And it's like, you know, so. And to the point where they said, oh, hey, Stephen, we don't want you to feel like you're opening for us, so we're going to play first. We'll do our three songs and we'll introduce you and bring you out. I mean, so I went on, and I'm like, I like to thank Nickelback for opening for me tonight. Like, I'm like, I'm like, this is unbelievable. You know, Like, I. I can't. So they really. And then when I. During COVID When I was doing these virtual shows, you know, they. Trina and Ryan Peak came on my thing, and they. I mean, they just couldn't be more generous. And so I, at that point was like, we got to stop with the Nickelback jokes. This is a. This is. This is sort of unfair. It's just like, we picked the nicest people in the world, the pick on.

You know, and anyway, it's completely unfair. I. I don't know. Like, I really don't know how it happened, but, you know, it just. It's just people ganging on and, you know, and they didn't. They didn't deserve it. Now they did fine, you know, 50 million albums.

Listen, where we held that event was on a nice little island that I think they owned. So I'm. I. I mean, they. You know, they're. They're laughing all the way to the bank, but they are, But. But nobody really deserves that. At the end of the day, I'm glad there's a doc out there that kind of addresses it. I will definitely watch it.

And I. Yeah, yeah, check that out. Well, very cool. Well, hey, this has been great. I really enjoyed this. It is as good or better than I expected. And just. It's such a pleasure to you. Such a. Such a man, such a good, authentic father, artist, entertainer. So I'm just. It's an honor to get to spend this time with you. I've really enjoyed it.

Thank you, Jeff. Me too. Thank you for having me on the show. I feel I definitely did not dress. I'm gonna do better next time we talk, I promise. I'm gonna. I'm gonna get better lighting and that filter. But no, I. I enjoyed your thoughts, and I really appreciate you having me on the show.

Awesome. Last. Last question for you. If you had one sentence to make an impact in somebody's life, what would that be?

Oh, my God. Okay. One sentence. Man, that's. That's a big, spontaneous question to have. Was this in the notes that I should have thought about?

No, no, just. It's just our question. You know, something maybe you say to your kids when, you know. You know, any. Anything. Anything you got.

No, I mean.

Or nothing.

No, honestly, I mean, I. This. This is going to keep me up at night thinking about it, and I'm going to need to follow it up. But I think I would say to somebody, something to the effect of, you are enough man or woman, you know, you are. You are. I know that we're, I know that life is hard even, even, even when it's good, it's challenging. But let's never forget that, that we're enough just being who we are and, and you can build every day on that. You know, I'm going to think more about this.

I think it's perfect.

But, but so much of what I want people to take away is like you don't have to be exceptional. You just have to take the best of what's inside you and do what you can with it, you know?

Perfectly said. Do not miss Stephen Kellogg in Fairfield, Connecticut on October 23rd and at the Park west in Chicago on October 25th singing, guitar playing and some awesome stand up Stephen Kellogg. Thanks for being on.

Thank you for having me, Jeff. Very nice.

Yeah, 100% Stephen Kellogg. I am Jeff duden and we have been on the home front. Thanks for listening.