Transforming Customer Interactions: Insights from Nick Glimsdahl

But if you're not leading from the front end and you're not leading by example, then don't start like, go work for somebody else and go through the motions. No entrepreneur should ever go through those motions. They should always stay in the discomfort. They should always try new things, they should always consistently try to find ways to fail. Because that's how you're going to improve, that's how you're going to learn, and that's how you're going to grow.

I am Jeff Duden and we are on the home front, currently number 42 in entrepreneurship on Apple. Thank you listeners and as always, this podcast is brought to you by Home Front Brands, Simply Buildings, the world's most responsible franchise platform, encouraging entrepreneurs to take action, transform their lives, impact communities and enhance the lives of those they care most about. All the while delivering enterprise level solutions to local business owners out there on the home front. If this sounds like you, check us out@homefrontbrands.com today and start your next chapter of greatness, building your dynasty on the home front. I will be looking for for you. Very excited today to have an incredible entrepreneur and a sophisticated Contact center executive and ultra super podcaster, Nick Glimsdahl. Welcome, Nick.

I'm just going to have you introduce me. From now on, anytime I meet anybody, it's just going to be this recording of you introducing me. What a. What a pleasure to be here, Nick.

Here's the good news. It's not over. Nick is the host of Press 1 for Nick podcast. He's not just a podcast guy. He also works as the director of Contact Center Solutions Solutions at vds, writes books and talks about things like customer experience, employee experience, and digital transformation. Nick's main mission is to make sure that when you interact with a company, it's easy and awesome. He wants to mix technology, what customers expect and what companies want to achieve to make things super smooth for all of us. But here's the fun part. Nick isn't just a business guy. He's done some pretty wild stuff. He's won five national team cross country championships. Is that true? That is true. Awesome. That's incredible. He's also flown in a really old plane with an open cockpit like in the old movies, and tried out for the Amazing Race television show, which being a runner I assume would help you, and even did a triathlon where he had a tricky bike situation but still finished strong. So we'll have to ask him about that. So Nick is not your average guy and we're excited to learn from him. About making life and business better. Welcome, Nick.

Thanks so much, man. It's, it's such a pleasure. I, I've enjoyed the episodes and, and looking forward to this one.

Oh, great, great. Well, Nick, as always on the home front, we would love to hear a little bit about you, your background and where you came from. Would you mind sharing a bit?

Yeah, of course. So, Nick Limsdahl. I grew up in a small town called Grand Forks, North Dakota. There are at least three of us there. Spent most of my life there, the first 18 years of my life. Decided to go to school, and I picked up running throughout that whole journey of, you know, at the end of the day, I started at age 4. I actually played hockey, you know, and hockey in North Dakota is like football in Texas. And I know that you know all about football. So I started at, at 4 years old. I was, at one time I was playing on two travel teams and I was playing on two public teams. And I have no idea how I, how I kept that up. But, you know, that was really important to me. And the one thing that I feel like I was always the runt of the litter, I was always running through. And I didn't really realize how small I was until I started looking back at pictures. And I was, at one time, I was this little tiny tyke, probably just under a year old. And I was in the same high chair, is a buddy of mine who was at the same daycare. And we were sitting in the seat together and the kid was ginormous about it. Felt like three feet above me. And I've always used that, I feel like, as a strength. And I've always tried to figure out how do I go through life and not see myself as is less than, is smaller than, but actually, you know, focus on what actually the things that I can control. And so I, I played hockey like I said, up until I was probably 14, 15. And at that 15 mark, I was probably freshman in high school. I was probably barely pushing a hundred pounds, maybe five foot two. Right now I'm standing at about six foot one, 175. So still, still a slight guy. But, you know, I was frail, I was gaunt to be generous, and I, I leaned into my aerodynamic frame as a strength and not a weakness. And I feel like there's a lot of things that we can learn from those as well, which we can get into. But from there, I was horrible right at the beginning, and I hated running and I kept, I kept at it. And eventually I was, I think my junior year, I was in the 5K. It was like 18, 13 or something like that, like really slow for all the runners out there. And I think my senior year I was right around that 15, 16 mark for the 10k or for the 5k. Ended up finishing third at cross country state. So not too shabby in North Dakota.

That's amazing. I'd like to share with you that I just did my personal best in a 5k.

Nice. Well, you got to tell us the number now.

It was 3K.

No. Yeah, it's good. I think it's all about staying in that discomfort. Right. Focusing on the things that you can control. And right now fast forwarding all the way forward to what I'm doing now. I call it the shuffle that I get out there and do every morning and it's the, the one to two miles. But you know, for me, I slowly started to get better and better every year. And I went to school in Minot State, North Dakota, and I ran. I actually redshirted my first year. One nationals the first year. I think I was the fifth man the second year. And I think it was a sick. We ended up transferring. I. I moved schools because my coach was like, I'm not dealing with this cold anymore. And he's originally from, I think North North Carolina. Eleven of us went with them and moved to this small tiny school in Virginia called Virginia Intermont. So I spent some time there and we actually won another three year or three times, all back to. Back to back in Virginia as well. So it was a heck of a journey. And so I've kind of jumped around. I've spent some time in Virginia, I've spent some time in St. Louis. I spent a handful of years in Illinois and I am in Ohio now. Been here for about, I don't know, probably about eight years.

You've gone through school. What did you do when you get out of school?

Yeah, so I was getting my master's degree at a school called Linden Wooden University in St. Louis, Missouri. The guy showed up to be a guest speaker and the guy name was Roland Williams. He was the tight end for the St. Louis Rams. That back when St. Louis or the Rams were still in St. Louis, his claim to fame was he cut. He caught Kurt Warner's first touchdown pass and he was a Super bowl champion. He guest spoke at my class and I'm trying to figure out what I wanted to be and where do I want to go. And I just had a quick chat with him and he's like. I was like, tell me about what you're doing right now? And he's like, well, I got this nonprofit and we teach life skills to underprivileged youth. And I was like, well, that's cool. Like, how do you go about that? And he's like, well, I go around and I put on football camps, and then I bring in professionals and I put on life skills camps and we put them on together. And then I bring in like American Gladiators, I'm bringing in actors, I bring in cheerleaders and football players. When it comes to that nonprofit, what he was trying to do is he's trying to get all these people fired up about football, and they just happenstance that he's teaching them about life. How do you get your credit score? And what does this mean? And what does this mean? And what does this mean? It was all things about getting them through and giving them hope. Because if you give somebody hope, you're going to change their life. You know, in St. Louis, in downtown, it was a 33% graduation rate.

Wow.

And by the time they finished a football camp for two days, it was like a 78% graduation rate just because somebody had hope. And you were like, here's what, what you can be. And there's a 1% chance you're going to be a football player maybe, but there's a 99% chance that you're going to work in the business or on a business, or you're going to own a business. And so what are you going to do about it? And let's learn from the people that are actually in it today and let them be your mentors. Let them be the leaders that you're focusing on and following. And don't let it be that just these football players, the football players are great, but they're also going to need to work in business too in the next three to five years. So that was kind of my first step in, in my professional career.

And how long did you do that?

So I only did it for about nine months because I realized at a nonprofit I could have got paid more at McDonald's and they would actually paid me benefits.

Right.

But it was definitely a great journey. And then from there I actually sold cookies and pastries to nonprofits. And it was in St. Louis and they paid me a little bit better and they gave me more pro or more, more benefits. And I had unlimited pizza and unlimited pastries and unlimited cookies. And I said, that's, that's good enough for me. So I, I did that for about three years and I, I Kind of own that, that the market up in, in Illinois, they, they said, hey, there's, there's a market here in, in illinois. You're in St. Louis. Would you be open to, to living there in the middle of nowhere by yourself in Bloomington, Illinois? So you think of St. Louis, you think of Chicago, or opposite is right smack in the middle, in the middle of the farm country. And I said, sure, why not? And so they gave me a location, they gave me a 30 foot by 30 foot freezer and a truck to bring around and deliver pastries and give samples. And I was a cooking, cooking pastry machine.

Nice. Nice. And yet still maintain that £175 around all those.

Oh, man. I couldn't gain weight to save my life. At one time I was trying to bulk on and put on weight. A buddy of mine, his name is Vito Barbagallo and he's this little, this little Italian guy who, who looks like the Hulk. And he kept challenging, challenged me to put on weight. And I was in the gym five days a week. I was eating ice cream to save my life and I couldn't gain a pound. And then slowly it started getting better and better and you know, I, I put on a little bit more weight.

So at some point you moved into the contact center business. How did that happen?

So a couple jobs in between that. So I worked for an IT support company and then I ended up moving, met my wife in Illinois and her, her family lives closer to, in, in Ohio as well. So we just moved closer to fam. And I was working for this IT company and I was kind of, I was satisfied, but I wasn't, you know, feeling IT contact centers. To me, if you, you said, if they start off by saying you want to sell customer service solutions, like, nah, I'm good. But if you can find a way to differentiate on the experience, then a mindset shift. And so I learned more and I learned more and I realized that it's not just about when it comes to the contact center, it's not just a phone call. It's no longer the call center. It's no longer that dirty word that you're sitting in the basement taking phone calls. You're actually delivering on the experience and finding ways to differentiate in the experience and meeting them where they're at and reducing that friction for the customer. But you're also finding ways to drive efficiencies for the organization and for that employee. Because on average it was like what, 12 to 15 applications that, that agent, when they're interacting with that Human being on the other end, that consumer interacting with 12 to 15 interactions at the same time. So when they say, hey, Jeff, how's the weather in North Carolina? They're really just trying to distract you to talk a little bit more so that they can open up all these other applications. And so if we can do more with less and we can find ways to drive efficiencies and standardize and collapse and consolidate, you can, you can kind of differentiate. And I really got excited into that and I leaned in and jumped in with both feet on the customer service side. And it's been a journey. I've been doing this for about six years now, and it's been a blast.

So what makes a good handle in terms of customer experience? And I'll give you an example. So in our business, we run a sales and contact center, and in a previous business we did the same. And we're in the disaster restoration business, environmental services. So it was never anytime anybody was calling us, it was a grudge buy. It was either, my home's flooded with sewage or I've just discovered a mold problem. I'm trying to sell my house. It's going to cost me $20,000 that I didn't anticipate. So nobody, nobody's ever happy. The question, the first question we asked is, is everybody okay? That was such a different handle. And it was just in the first five seconds of the call to show that kind of compassion. Especially they got a water damage job or a fire damage job. You know, most companies are like, you know, who's your insurance company? You know, do you have a. Do you know what your deductible is? They're going straight to the transaction. And for all they know, their dogs and their cats ran under the bed and, you know, died of smoke inhalation or something like that. So these people are just, they're suffering through this day. At a minimum, they're going to have to move out of their house and have strangers going through their closets and packing up all their stuff. It was a huge inconvenience. It was very intrusive for people. So answering is, you know, is everybody okay? You know, as the first call was something that we found to be incredibly effective, and I haven't found it done anywhere else. What kinds of things did you learn in that first 10 seconds of a customer experience really worked for you.

So I love the way that you guys approach that because you're not just treating them like another interaction, you're treating them like a human being. Because at the End of the day, the person on both ends of the, of the, of the interaction are human beings. And so I think that's where it needs to start. I, I would say that when organizations fail to deliver on the experience, they don't see them as a human being, as a consumer, regardless of if it's a really good. I'm calling because I'm trying to change a policy or I, you know, I have a claim on my roof and it got approved. So I'm super excited, but I need to figure out what's next. It doesn't matter if it's good or bad or There's a flood in my whole basement in 1997 in North Dakota. I left our whole city of 45. 50,000 people left the city because the whole city was flooded. And so we had to leave for two weeks. And so I understand what it feels like to have that complete demolishment of our. Luckily, our basement only flooded, but right across the street, their whole house from the top down was gone. I think back to customer service. It's about meeting them where they're at. And sometimes what you had Chris Voss on. Chris Voss says the last thing I want to hear in any interaction is I'm sorry. He's like 33% of the world love. I'm sorry, 33% of the world could. Could care less, but they just want their Problem solved. And 33% of the world despises the word I'm sorry. When you're trying to interact with another human being in there and it's just this, this empty promise, this empty. I'm sorry. You want to meet them where they're at? You don't want to say. Just, just. It sounds like. Sounds like you're going through a lot, right? He talks about the. Sounds like. It seems like it feels like you're labeling what's going on and where they're at and just being present, half the battle is just shutting up and asking you additional questions or clarifying questions. The more that they think that you care, the more that they're going to be willing to be patient. Your customer service doesn't have to be perfect, but it does have to be human. And I would say that the world right now tries to find ways to drive efficiencies and create better experiences through AI or the checklist or I'm going to throw a chatbot on there. But if you're not thinking about the actual human being on the other end of that interaction and what that chatbot interaction is like, the worst I've had. I had a screen door that, at the last house, and the door handle fell off and I had no idea what. Where they bought it or what we get it from. And I looked at the inside of the door and I found out where it was from. So I started texting them and they're like, oh, yeah, great. Send me a picture of it. Oh, it looks like this is the model and here's what's going on and doesn't look like it's under warranty. I was like, can I just get a replacement? And they're like, yeah, sure, sure. So. So here's how you go about that. And I was like, cool. Like, how can I pay for it now? And like, actually, you got to get back in line and call this number, even though I'm still interacting with you. And yeah, it's frustrating for me too, but it created so much friction. I just got frustrated and there's. There's a hundred stories that I can tell you about what happened and why I no longer do businesses with business with other companies because of the friction that they put in front of me. A feedback is good, right? Good feedback is good. Bad feedback is good because it actually means that they still care. The worst feedback is the ones that they never tell you about and they actually just leave. I call those the silent killers.

Right? Right. The best consultancies in the world use the concept of human centered design. First question you ever ask when you're building a business is, who is the customer? And you define that customer by every way possible. Then you take that customer and you put them at the center of your processes, because at the end of the day, it's going to be that customer's experience that turns them into a repeat customer or aspirationally, a raving fan. So you do human centered design. You put the customer at the center of it. Then you. You create the experience around that customer in every potential way that they're going to touch somebody. So I like the way that you. You approach that. The other thing I find interesting in what you just shared was you quoted some very specific things from Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss. You know, Chris is a hostage negotiator, probably the most famous one in the world. Incredible book he charges shared on our podcast. You know, he's $5,000 an hour for you to call him. So I haven't got the bill for the podcast yet. I'm waiting. You know, we ran over, so I. We'll see if he charges in in partials as well. But I have a friend called Michael Reddington, and he wrote a book called the Discipline Listening Method. And he was a kind of a. A loss prevention guy. And so they would do. They would go into companies and they would interview people where there was theft and they didn't know who did it. And all they had to know is that these VCRs were gone off the loading dock. They had a 76% confession rate, even though not knowing who it was. Just starting talking to people there, and they were so skilled at doing it. I said, wow, this is amazing. We're negotiating with our franchisees all the time in terms of. Are you doing the sales activities? Well, yes, I am. Well, let's talk about that. Are you really doing the sales activities or, you know, whatever it is, was the best of class to operate that business. We were constantly coaching and negotiating with franchisees to do what was in their best interest and to give them the supporting data and to give them the encouragement to make sure that they had the tools and make sure that they had clarity, because clarity equals velocity. So, you know, we're constantly. I'm like, wow, if we could learn how to communicate in that way. So what it sounds like is you took Chris's work and never split the difference, and you applied that to negotiating with an inbound client, a customer on the end of it, and helping using that intelligence and those methods in the way that you engage with your clients. Is that true?

Yeah, absolutely. I think I didn't realize on how much it aligned with. With hostage negotiation, as it does with. With a human, that that is interacting with customer service or contact center, because typically before I got into contact centers, and maybe I have a little bit more empathy than I have prior, but I would get ready to call that 1-800-number and I'd. I'd roll up the Rocky soundtrack, I'd do as many pushes up push ups as I could, and I'd get ready to tear them a new one because it was their problem. Now it's no longer my problem. It becomes your problem because you've now messed with me or you've messed with the. The situation or when you screwed up my vacation or whatever, whatever that issue is. But if you just let the person talk, I feel like Chris has this, but he's like, until that they feel understood, they could care less what you say. That's right. And the same is true with customer service until you actually hear them out and you address what's going on. And you're like, here's what I'm going to do about it. I did hear you. And here's the three things that I did here. Is that right?

And that's right.

Hopefully they say that's right.

That's right.

And then you go on and you do it the next phase, but you do it in a calm, calm voice, and he does it in a calm, and he does it with a radio announcer voice. But the calmer that you are and the less you mirror that actual person when it comes to their. Their craziness, the more they're going to feel like you hear them and the more they're going to trust you on that journey and that you are their now trusted advisor and you're no longer just this other person on the other end of that interaction.

Well, and I'll also draw a connection between your first job out of college, where you were working for the nonprofit, and you said all we have to do is give these kids hope and we can give it to them in two days. And we change the graduation rate from 33 to 78%.

That's right.

If you're in a contact center, especially if you're doing managing exceptions or the departments that have to do with cancellations or anything like that, which is part of a special little department, part of it is making sure that they're understood, making sure that you're empathizing with them, but also creating some sort of a future that they can see and that they can understand. So here's the three options that we have for you. I think you should consider this, or maybe this is the best option. At what point do you transition? Or in your centers, you engage the call, you build a little bit of trust and rapport, you diagnose the call, and then you move to a solution set.

So for us, we're consultants in organizations that are small business, medium business, and enterprise businesses. And we come in and consult to identify where their pain points are. And sometimes it's technology, sometimes it's pretty process, sometimes they just want to be heard. And we can give them best practices on thought leadership of what's working next. So we're making recommendations, but we're not. We can only go so far.

Got it. So while we're on the com center and before we move on, who's a typical customer for you?

Yeah, for us, it's anywhere from somebody has 50, 50 seats or 50 agents to, you know, probably the sweet spot is all the way up to about a thousand. We could probably go a little bit higher.

Okay.

But anywhere from about 50 to 1,000 it's a pretty, pretty big market.

How do you see machine learning and artificial intelligence impacting the way that you help clients?

So I think that if it's a way, if you find a way to keep that experience at that level that it already should be and you can make it at the same level or better, then you should use it. I think you can find ways to automate the routine and use some of that on the back end for workflows, the if then statements. You can do AI summaries where it's. Instead of having a 2 minute or 4 minute wrap up conversation where they're typing the notes, I think you can use a lot of that generative AI to do some of those wrap up codes. And it takes five seconds and they review it real quick, hit submit and go to the next one. I think there's a lot there. I feel like inside chat they can have a conversation you can build in the knowledge bases and work through that. And one of the keys with chat is that what I always get frustrated with. If I'm interacting with an organization, I'm on chat and they say, did you solve, did I solve your problem? And I'm like, no representative, right Manager. If I'm on the call, you know, I'm hitting zero as many times as I can, right? There's all, all sorts of things you can do. But if you get to finally a human being and they say, hey, what's, what's the, what's the street crew about? Grew up on you. What's your mom's maiden name? You know, what's, what's the last four year social? And they're like great, how can I help you? And I'm like, listen dude, I just talked to your bot for five minutes and here's all of the context. And I know that technology is available because I can sell it. You know, now you're asking me to repeat myself and you're wasting my time. So now I just get frustrated and I'm not solved on the channel of my choice. And now I'm going to another human being that doesn't understand the conversation. I think technology and AI would be a great way to transition that conversation to that next channel. I don't think that it should be, it's not ready yet. Unless it's self service. I want to reset my password, I want to check my balance. You can do a lot of that with AI. I think there's always going to be a human element and especially with high, high issues. If somebody's responding you know, wanting to pay off their balance or there's a death in the family and they're trying to file a claim. You don't want to have AI in that, right? You want to have that empathy in the moment and have the human being involved.

I was searching for a medical product. I had a brand in mind and I searched for that and obviously this other well known company was bidding on their keyword. So they came up first and I'm like, and I literally, it was, I'm drinking a cup of coffee, I've got five minutes before I've got to get out the door. So I was just going to do some research. Usually you'll get into an online mobile app at some point. It asks you something that forces you to kick, kick out, right? You're like, okay, what about this, what about that? And you're going through and you're answering these. It's running a predictive script and it's an either or and you're running down. And usually you get to a point where I'm not going to give you that, or I don't want to do that right now, or that's too much or whatever. I bought that product in three minutes. There was no barriers there, there was nothing that offended me. And there's another product called Noom. I don't know if you've seen it. It's kind of a weight loss thing. The stickiness of that app. I mean, it's a weight loss app but it does nothing. But it's just on your phone. So like, how does this possibly work? Well, it's education and it's accountability and it's reminders and it's these and it just puts this stuff top mind. But there are companies out there that are really avoid, you know, they're, they're ringing up tickets, like real tickets online without a human engagement. And I don't know if those were early adopters to artificial intelligence or they're just really, really well done. But to your point, the customer experience, you have to focus on that. And if you don't know who your customer is and who's likely to, you know, what, what are, what are they likely to do? Then you really don't have a chance of creating a process that's going to attract, retain and close those people efficiently. So really appreciate what you do. You know, we've talked about customer experience. Is customer service the same thing?

So customer service is not the same thing as customer experience. I would say that customer service was what happens when customer experience breaks oh, you think of Amazon? Amazon, hopefully. I never have to interact with customer service and I don't know even when I'm interacting with customer service as a chat, is it really just a bot that is really well done? I have no idea. If they could just name a bot Susie and I'd believe them. But I feel like what's also really missing and most people don't talk about is the employee experience. As a married guy, I always use the analogy of mommy happy and nobody happy. And the same is true with your employees because your employees are a direct reflection of how you treat them and how they treat their customers. So I would, I would lean into that. But I think customer service can also be proactive. I think you can set workflows and there's different stages of a claim. Let's say back to insurance. If it's in this stage and it goes down this process, can you notify the customer? Because as a consumer the last thing I want to be is in the dark, that whole gray area. Nobody thinks Jeff has what's best in mind for me. And even though he hasn't responded to me in 21 days, I believe that he's got what's best for me. No, that what we do is we go to the worst case scenario and they hate me and I'm probably not going to get approved for this policy and they're probably pushing me to some, some telemarketer that I out of it from a different country and I don't like that. And so then I call again and I call again and I call again until I actually get a healing human being. So you can be more proactive and create a different experience. So you're not necessarily defending against that experience, you're adding to it.

Yeah, I had a great experience with Air Canada recently where I bought three business class tickets round trip and it was my first time flying them. So I'm not a customer. I did get a frequent flyer number, but these were the first three flights I had ever paid for the suitcase. When it came out of the thing, it just had a huge hole in the side of it. Like it was just, it was kind of a hard sided thing and it looks like somebody hit it with a sledgehammer. So I showed it to a gate agent and they're just like, oh, just file a claim. I'm like, okay, so. But I was on the way to a trip and, and then I get back and then I don't get to it for a couple of weeks. So it's three weeks down the road. And then I, so I'm going to file that claim and I go into the app and I very easily find where to file the claim. And it says any claims filed after seven days will not be considered. And I'm like, oh, okay, well, this was the wife's suitcase. So now I'm fighting, I'm fighting a two front war, right?

Which one's worse?

Well, you, you're married, you know, but I just, I, I go through the app and I don't have the receipt. My wife had purchased it and I was doing, again, I'm doing it in the moment, but I did go online. I said, oh, this is a $315 suitcase. So I went online in the comments section. I said, hello, first time flyer. I bought these three tickets. We had a great trip, we had a great experience. This happened to the suitcase. I mentioned it to the gate agent. They told me to file the claim. And by the time I got back it was out of a seven day window. You know, here's a picture of it. You could upload a picture along with the receipt, which I didn't have the receipt. And maybe within 12 hours I got an email. It said, thank you, we appreciate your business. We're mailing you a check for $315.

So.

And I was really surprised, to be honest with you. Now I don't know if it was in the value in relation to the, to the tickets and you know, they had that in there or what, but you know, they could have denied the claim based on their policy. If they made me jump through any more hoops, I would have never gotten back to it.

Right.

But man, am I a raving fan now of that airline.

Yeah. How'd that make you feel?

Well, interesting. So Homefront Brands were a pride brand. We want our franchise owners to be proud about the decision that they made to join the Homefront Brands family as our business partners and franchisees with our customers. We want them to be proud so that when somebody makes a decision to go with Top Rail fence and it's somebody in the home and then we come out and we do a great job. We want the person that decided to go with us to be proud and for them to not have a problem with the other person living in the house with their spouse or partner. So that's how I felt. I was like, yep, I got the check coming and I gave it, you know, I took, I took full credit for, you know, I said, ah, I got the suitcase paid for. You know, she's like, really? And I'm like, yep, yep, I handled it, but I didn't do it. You know, they just, they handled it. So. But to your point, you know, that's. It ended up being a really good experience. I have to think that the data would support their decision. Inside of that, who knows what their claims process was, but I can't believe that they just send checks like that out all the time. So however, however I pitched it to them, you know, it met their criteria, but it also asked, is this your first luggage claim? So I think if I get another one, it'd probably be denied.

So one more silly question just to stay on customer experience. Real quick. If you were to, to do Air Canada and somebody who was very similar to Air Canada and they were $10 more, would you go with Air Canada? Because you know the experience you're going to get versus somebody you might not.

If they were hundreds of dollars more, I would go with Air Canada.

Isn't that fascinating? People will spend more now over the last, I think five years is when it finally switched. People will now spend more for a better experience than they will over product or price.

Well, that's a strong testament to get our, get our house in order and, and be a great service provider. Nick, let's move over to the podcast. You've got a very popular podcast. Pressed one for Nick. It's loosely affiliated with vds, I would say, because I, it's definitely, it's definitely affiliated, but it, it has its own brand and it has its own success. Can you talk a little bit about how and why you started the podcast originally? Yeah.

So in 2020, there was something called the Pandemic. I'm not sure if you've heard of it.

I'm familiar with it. I saw it on the Internet, which I also believe is going to be very popular one day.

Yeah, I've heard somebody is going about and being pretty viral on that. So I started the podcast for a couple reasons. When the Pandemic hit, everybody kind of locked down and I was like, as a sales guy, how do I find ways and build relationships and, and get people to trust me with out me without me going and grabbing lunch with people or getting face to face. And nobody can do phone calls with clients, but I try to do a phone call with a customer or a prospect. It just, it just feels slimy if they don't already know who I am or what I do. And everybody and their mom was doing a webinar. I'll give you 10 bucks if you show up for my webinar. And you're probably not going to pay attention, you're probably not going to be in video and you'll show up half the time. And I didn't feel like there was a good way to do that. And so one of the best ways that I thought, which I've never done before, is I'm gonna start a podcast. And so I leaned into that and you know, press one for Nick is its own identity, an old own company. But I kind of leaned into it and I started reaching out to all my buddies and I just said, hey, I'm thinking about starting a podcast. He's like, you're an idiot. Like why don't you start a podcast? And then I kind of explained the situation. Like, you know, I think at the end of the day I want to find ways to add value to others and get people, I feel like they're going to trust me the more I ask hopefully credible questions and, and I don't fumble over my words and I don't say ums and odds and you knows, like everybody else. And I don't know if that's gonna be better, but it's definitely not gonna be worse. And so I started bringing in my buddies in the first three, four, five, six episodes. It was just people that I knew. And then I started reaching out from there. The craziest thing happened, right As a sales guy, I can talk to anybody. I can talk to a hole in the wall as long as they don't listen. And, and I can speak as fast as I want. Hopefully my brain will keep, or my, my brain will keep up or my mouth keep up with my brain. But I was self conscious of what was coming out of my mouth because I hit the record button. And maybe it was just that mindset where I cared what other people thought and what happens if they don't like it? What happens if somebody re shares this and sends us their buddy and they're all laughing at me like I don't know, maybe there's. That brings it back to that, that, that 5 foot to 100 pound kid in freshman high school. It's just that the, the worth right there. But you know, at the end of the day I just realized the more reps that I kept getting into it, the more I didn't care. I was like, you know what my mission in life is to have fun serving others. Like let's continue to lean into that. And I just passed 300 episodes. I think I'm at 301 episodes now. And it's been a heck of a journey and I'm having a lot of fun.

Well, congratulations on your success. You've interviewed people, executives from Chick Fil A, Ritz Carlton, Zappos, Google, Disney companies. Which podcasts were the best and most relevant. What have you learned about guests that make them interesting? And then do you see, does that translate for you into downloads or whatever it is you measure around the podcast?

Yeah, it's interesting. You know, I think the podcast in general has evolved. It was just a audio only and I slowly got into to video. When I slowly got into a newsletter from the, from the video, I slowly started getting into YouTube shorts and kind of evolved it as it kind of goes. And I'm paying attention to what other people are doing. Obviously you guys are doing an awesome job. You know, love, I love the background. I'm semi jealous of what I, what I can do and how I can do what you're doing. So, so keep, keep up what you're doing too. You know, you're, you're, you're crushing it as well. You know, for, for me, some of the guests that I've had on, you're putting me on the spot of, of picking my, my favorite kiddos and you know, hopefully I'm not calling any of them ugly, but there's a couple that stood out. One of them is Horst Charles. He was the co founder of the Red Scarlet and he's got this, he's this big German dude who still has a crazy accent even though he's been in the States for, you know, probably 30 plus years. And it's because he came from, he came from nothing. And I feel like there's, there's a lot of perseverance in his voice still at, at his age, even though he's bought and sold multiple companies and he no longer, he kind of advises organizations and does keynotes and whatnot. One of the things that really was, was memorable to me is this maitre d which was in this. Who took, who took a chance on him and he's like, you know, always serve the customer and I always put the customer first. Don't, don't ever just focus on yourself and never go to work. And he's like, never go to work. He's like, yeah, never go to work. He's like always, you know, this isn't a job. This is something that you should focus on and strive to excel at. And he's like, you know, there was a one time where I realized that I was just going through the motions. He's Like I was going to work. And he goes, I didn't get a promotion. He goes, we're all sitting at this, in this room and they were getting ready to give this big promotion up to, to be the main person at this hotel. And he was, he's so confident in this, in this opportunity that as they were getting ready to pick the person's name and call him up to stage, he was getting ready and he stood up, he called the other name, we sat down and he's like, I was so, I was so deflated. And he goes, but then at the end of the day, I was cussing into my room and. And he goes, I, I let, I let him down. I, I went to work and I've been going to work and I'd show up at 9, 902 every day instead of 9 o' clock, and I'd leave early and I wouldn't do the extra things. And I think there's a lot, a lot to be said there. You know, one other guy that had a really big impact in my life was a guy named John o'. Leary. If you don't know, he's actually based out of St. Louis. And at the age of, I think 8 or 9 years old, he was playing like, with fire like everybody else did as, as a boy. And he was playing with gasoline in his garage and blew himself up and the whole garage caught on fire and he was burnt. 99 of his body, third degree burns. He had like a 1% chance of living. And the thing that's powerful to me is not only did he survive, but the person that showed up in the hospital, he was all bandaged up, he looked like a mummy. And a guy named Jack Buck showed up and he's the voice of the St. Louis Cardinals. And it's because he heard from his daughter who his daughter heard somebody on the radio or on the tv, like, this guy just blew himself up. He's this little boy. In Jack Buck's memo, our mission was, what more can I do? He's like, well, I'm just going out of this fundraiser, I can go see the boy. That's something more I can do. So he shows up and he's like, hey, my name's Jack Buck. You may not know who I am, but I want to let you know that you're going to get out of here. When you do, we're going to have a gentle ear day at the ballpark. And he's like, I idolized Jack Buck. I listened to him every single game for as Long as I, you know, for when he was a kid, and he's like, he could have just showed up the one time. He's like, he. He came back the next day, came back the next day, came back the next day. He's like, he was part of my life for forever, and he was one that focused on perseverance. For him, he's. He's still scarred up. He's lost, you know, most of his fingers, you know, still has. He's. He's married, he's got kiddos, and his mission in life is love the one in front of you. He's like, I have that, and that's something that I can control. Nobody else can take that from me. And one of his missions is how to stay on fire. I don't know. Just. Just his mindset fires me up.

I love that. I would love to talk to that man.

I will make sure to make an introduction for you.

Well, I appreciate that. You know, in the short time that we've known each other, I found you to be very generous. You follow up, you follow through, and you've helped us in so many ways with our podcast. So I really appreciate that. You, obviously, you practice givers gain. You're very generous with and humble with everything that you've learned and what you do. Along those lines, if you were going to give advice to entrepreneurs, you've gone out and you were uncomfortable doing this podcast. You've gone out. Now you're in over 300 episodes. We have people listening that are thinking about becoming entrepreneurs, and you've taken one adventure after another. I sense that you've made decisions based on purpose and adventure. You've moved around. You forgave income and earnings to do things that you were passionate about, especially as a young person. You followed a coach from one college all the way to the other side of the country. What have you learned in terms of fundamental truths or absolutes that you would share with somebody who's looking to take an adventure, take a chance, do something for the first time.

There's a whole, whole day seminar that I think you and I could have a conversation on regarding this. But I would say that if you're gonna actually step into it, don't just step in, dive in with both feet and go all out and surround yourself with the right people. You know, regardless if it's teammates and who's on the left side of the right side of you. As a tight end, you want to make sure that you're. You're aligned with your teammate. And in the steps and when you're going to go and when they're going to throw. And I think the same is true with. As an entrepreneur, you have to surround yourself with the right people because sometimes people only have one chance. Right? And what are you going to do with the chance that you're given in life? We're only given one chance in a race. We're only given that one race, one race at a time. And so how are you going to persevere in that race? In every race that I ran, there was an opportunity for me to either sit back and stay comfortable, or as for. For me, it was to go out and around that person in front of me to hit my personal goal, to hit that, that 3k record of that personal record that you hit. I. I'm either going to get really uncomfortable, but I probably won't die. There's a high probability that I will not die. There. There is a probability, but there's a high probability that I'm going to get absolutely tunnel vision. I'm going to get dizzy, I might pass out, but that's going to be the worst that's going to happen. You know, if you're going to focus on, on staying in that comfort, don't be an entrepreneur. If you're going to focus on the ultimate goals, you're going to have a team around you. You're going to have somebody who, or. Or an organization or even a partner who is going to guide you through that journey and maybe somebody who's gone through it before. You know, any biography that we read, you can do a lot of things. You can read a biography and just say, huh, that was interesting. Or you can say, what the heck did I learn from that? What are the things that they did really well that I should adopt? Or what are the things that. That they actually absolutely crashed on or their attitude or how they handle a situation. How can I improve and how can I not do that? There's so many opportunities that we can learn and improve our personal first and then our professional and then our. And then our organization within our people. But if you're not leading from the front end and you're not leading by example, then don't start like, go work for somebody else and go through the. Go through the motions. No entrepreneur should ever go through those motions. They should always stay in the discomfort. They should always try new things. They should always consistently try to find ways to fail, because that's how you're going to prove. That's how improve. That's how you're going to learn and that's how you're going to grow. If you're going to have that growth mindset in that giver's mindset, you're going to succeed. It might just take a little bit longer than you expect.

Whether you're speaking in public, being asked to coach a team, take a leadership role. Doing a podcast, three words. It's not fatal if you die. If we die on this podcast, it's not because we're doing the podcast, it's because of unhealthy life choices or something else. Yeah, I think those are great words. And your comment about commitment and getting in, stepping in with both feet. You know, greatness happens out on the edge in the rarefied air where the air is thin. That's where everything happens. If you're not living on the edge, you're just taking up space. And really we create constructs around our thinking and self limiting beliefs and we put ourselves in a box and we say I can't do this. And then you play the relative game, right? Relative to this person, I'm 10 years younger. Relative to that person, they've got more money. Relative to that person, they're better, whatever it is. And you play this game and you argue for your self limiting beliefs, all the reasons why you can't do it. And this is not mine. And neither is the joke about 3K that was nor McDonald but you know, this is not mine. But somebody said if you argue for your limitations, you get to keep them. And we negotiate with ourselves out of, out of discomfort, into an area of comfort. And I think those are great words. They resonate and I appreciate that sharing them. As you look forward Nick, into this trend line that is your career and your life, what's next for you?

I'm going to continue to find ways to serve and have fun. I don't have this, you know, 20 year plan of, of where, where Nick wants to go or where Nick's going to go because everybody's going to have that one and three year and five year plan. You know, the same is true with people in customer service. Everybody's got this goal but technology is always going to change. Customers expectations are always going to change and then you know, processes are some somewhat going to be stagnant but you're going to be able to flex as needed. I want to be flexible. I want to be willing to, to step in and try new things and fail a boatload because that means I'm going to learn. I don't, I don't have This I want to be CEO of, of this company. But I'm going to continue to try new things and see what sticks.

You're living a life on purpose and I appreciate that. If you had one sentence, a go to sentence to make an impact in someone's life, what would that be?

Listen more than you talk. I would say that as a sales rep in sales. I've been in sales for a long time and I used to believe that the more I talk, the more information I can get out, the more valuable that I would sound. And that's not the case. Half the job is just asking really good questions and shutting up and waiting for them to talk, hearing what they're saying, having those active, listening what what Chris Voss says and then addressing what they're saying. Don't just have this script and getting ready to regurgitate what you always been, what you always know. Half the battle is just not talk and asking clarifying questions. And maybe it is just that mirroring. Maybe it is the last three to five words that people are saying to get them to keep talking. But it's not because you're trying to sell them something. It's because you actually care. And I think you care because you're taking time for them to talk and then for you to listen.

Well said. If people are interested in your consulting services around contact centers, what is the best place to reach out to you?

Yeah, you can either go togovds or govds.com. the best place to reach me is LinkedIn. I am consistently there and you can see my name in the title of this podcast episode or you can just follow me. If you just type in Nick glumsdell or even press 1 for Nick on LinkedIn or YouTube or wherever podcast applied, you should be able to find me.

301 reasons to go to press 1 for Nick and listen to more of what you heard here today. Nick, thank you for being on.

It's my pleasure man. And keep doing what you're doing. I would double down and this. You guys are crushing it.

I appreciate that as always. I am Jeff Duden and we have been on the Homefront with Nick and this podcast has been brought to you by Homefront Brands. Simply building the world's most responsible franchise platform delivering enterprise level solutions to local business owners out there on the homefront where it counts. If this sounds like you, check us out@homefrontbranch.com today and start your next chapter of greatness. Building your dynasty on the home front. I will be here looking for you. Thank you for listening.