What’s Blocking Your Energy and Success? Energy Expert Erin King Explains #214

Welcome everybody back to the unemployable podcast. I'm Jeff Duden. If you are a three time award winning startup entrepreneur, two of which before the age of 30 and then put your life on hold to conduct the world's largest research study on human energy, created the Energy exam, which will inform you definitively which of the five energy types you have. And today host a top 1% podcast on iTunes and on your terms with Aaron King and is one of the top 10 rated must see motivational speakers in the world. Your name can only be Aaron King. Welcome.

Thank you, Jeff. What an intro. I appreciate you doing your homework there, buddy.

Is it true? Is it true?

We'll find out. I guess.

I guess we will. Opening question, which makes sense. What lights you up?

Oh, family. I know it's not a very glamorous answer, but I really believe, you know, family's everything. That's the whole point. Even though we're, we're workaholics and we're serial entrepreneurs, work is never going to love us back. So at the end of the day, it is all about the ones that love us and know us outside of our achievements. So we always prioritize families over everything else. I'm one of 36 first cousins. Wow. Irish Catholics making more Irish Catholics. My grandparents are all from Ireland, so we have a very close knit, very large, loud family that I'm very proud to be a part of.

Oh, that's amazing. And I know through my research that you're close with your dad since you went to family. He was a college athlete at Georgetown, record holding quarterback. So obviously high performers, setting example for high performance which you've certainly lived in your life. What kind of role did he play in your life as a young person and what impact did he have on you?

Well, thanks for asking about my dad. Yeah, he's my hero. In case you can't tell. I talk about him a lot in my keynotes and my content. He just turned 70 this year, so we had a big celebration. My brother and he were actually just in Nova Scotia yesterday for a big golf trip. Boys golf trip. I'm a golfer as well, but I like warm California golf. This was like the blustery cold, windy, like hardcore. So I said, you guys go have fun. But growing up, you know, he used to always tell us his anchor phrase was when the going gets tough, the tough get going. And that phrase just always stuck with me my entire life. You know, we were always raised in our family to be extremely aware that we were only sort of the second generation here in the States and where we came from, things like food security and safety and opportunity was not just a given and a standard. And so we were taught to be super grateful and that any opportunity that comes our way, it's up to you to make the most of it and to control the controllables. Right. Attitudes, everything. So I was telling you before we hit record that we had a lot of football analogies growing up in our childhood. So, you know, there was a lot of, like, huddle up, team. You know, a lot of, like, pep time, you know, halftime. Pep talks throughout. Throughout our time. But, yeah, I feel super grateful. I mean, I think, you know, I feel like every generation, we get a little bit more warm with our parenting. We get a little more empathetic. I mean, my dad's parents didn't talk about any feelings. My dad's a boomer, so he talks about, like, a tiny bit of feelings, right? They're kind of allergic to weakness and emotion. And then I think our generation, we're starting to sort of slowly chip away at that healthy communication that really builds. Not just peak performers, but. But kind humans. So feel very lucky.

Simplicity and specificity. I just. I'm constantly seeking those things in my businesses and in my life. And I think parents have the opportunity to just give you some principles. I mean, at the end of the day, you can tell kids a million things, but if you just set guidelines and principles like you said, that they can go back to, like, you. You go back, he told you things, and then he lived that value. And then those are things that you build upon. You don't need a bunch of things, right? You just kind of need the corners of the pen that kind of create that big yard in which we run around. You know, what are our values? What do we care about? What don't we tolerate? And then when things get hard, that they always do in life, like, what do you grab onto? And then, you know, how do you react to it? And it's honestly just that simple. Don't teach people what to think, but teach them how to think. Don't teach them, you know, you know, how. How to react. What's expected. I mean, it's. It's really. It's really simple. And we guide ourselves that way. And. And one of the things that. That I used to. I did a lot of coaching of. Of kids, and I would have little things, right? We had a handful of things. And one of them, I would say leaders bring, and they would say energy, right? Because the number one role of a leader. If you listen to my training or you go to one of my keynotes that's building high performing teams, I have a slide and it says these are the roles of a leader. And it's like to bring energy is the number one. To live the values, to speak a bold and powerful future into existence, to create clarity in all things. I have this five, six things that are on a list, but bringing energy is the top one. And authentic energy. How did you get clued in to energy as being something that you could not only use in your own business and personal life, but to create a business around helping other people understand energy as well. What was the trigger for you?

Yeah, well, thank you, Jeff. And by the way, so well put. I love that you surface that and preach that. Our research study actually found, we interviewed 10,000 people and we said, hey, what is the number one trait of a leader that you admire? Someone that you follow, Someone that you're energized by? And we gave them 20 options. We said, is it their expertise, their fancy education, their skill set? Is it their moral compass? The number of hours they work? And the number one answer that we came up with was the vibe or the way of being. So we've scientifically proven exactly what you already know inherently, which is that our energy is our ultimate edge. So to answer your question, yeah, I mean, backing it up, I had a little bit of a personal energy crisis of my own. I'm a serial entrepreneur, just like you. I had two ventures before I turned 30, both of which were expensive, exhausting dumpster fire disasters. I got forged through the flame, had to go back to corporate America, dig out of a lot of debt. And then third time was finally the charm. We ran the one of the largest social media agencies for live events. So back in 2013, we were on the red carpet of the Oscars doing all the social media, and there was this very famous selfie that was the first celebrity selfie to break the Internet. There was Ellen and Bradley Cooper and Julia Roberts, and it was this very famous selfie that was the first one to go viral. So it happened on our watch. So. So we blew up. We did the social media for the Olympics and the Grammys and all this stuff. So we're killing it. We're making tons of money. I'm managing this great big team in Laguna Beach, California, and I'll never forget, I was watching Netflix and there was a documentary that came on, and it was called the Social Dilemma. You may have seen it.

I have seen it.

Okay, so Maybe you recall there's a scene where there's a marionette puppet and they're pulling the strings. The algorithm is basically dictating us with every scroll, what we think, how we feel, what we value, our mental health. And I'll never forget, it was this moment stopped me in my tracks. And I remember thinking, you know, I know social media is not inherently good or evil. It's how we use it. But in that moment, I realized I don't know if I want this to be my professional legacy. Like, I don't know if this is the mark I want to leave on the world. And so I began the process of selling my social media company, which we sold in 2021. And from there, people started asking me to speak on different topics. So I was getting asked to speak on leadership and sales and social media and AI and all these different topics. And so I just kept saying yes to everything, which, as we know, you being a strategist and entrepreneur, without focus, without clarity, without a game plan, you're going to burn out. So I was spending energy on all these different directions. And there was one week where I gave five different keynotes in eight days in five different cities. And I came home to my team and we're on the Brady Bunch Zoom call, and they're asking me just basic questions, just like you, you know, what are we doing with this and that? And all of a sudden, Jack, I couldn't see them, I couldn't hear them. Everything went dark. And I woke up in the emergency room, and I thought, my husband's gonna say I had a heart attack. But turns out it was just a good old fashioned panic attack. But it scared me enough to realize, like, hey, I need to take a pause here. And so for me, being an entrepreneur since I was 24, having four ventures, only one, which was really successful, by the way, I realized, like, hey, you know, every, like, five or six years, I kind of have this breakdown. And so how do I be a high performer but also a high enjoyer? Or is it always this energy, yo, yo management cycle that I'm stuck in? So the question I want to answer is, how can we manage our energy more than we manage our time or our money? It's our most precious asset. And yet so many high performers and high achievers are terrible at managing their most precious resource. And so I put my entire company on pause. I said no to a lot of money, said no to a lot of keynotes. I took my husband's boat budget, which, because he wanted horsepower, but I needed brain power. And I hired some of the smartest PhDs from Boston. And we spent 18 months conducting the largest study on and personal human energy management that's ever been done. We've been featured in Psychology Today, the Harvard Business Review, and ultimately the question we answered was when it comes to people who have both high energy but also a high life satisfaction score, they feel joyful, present, excited for the future, what do they know and do and embrace the rest of us don't. And so taking those learnings which are going to be in my new book next year, I've been teaching for the last almost two years some of the world's biggest brands, I mean, Google, Visa, even the US Navy, how to manage their energy from a leadership standpoint in particular, in a way that really allows them to tap into what you were talking about earlier. You know, that, that powerful coach in the huddle at halftime, how do they show up and do that even, especially when their tank's on empty and they don't feel like it. So that was sort of how the whole thing was born. And it's been a really interesting journey for me to finally be really walking my talk and believing in this expertise that I've, that I've gained over the last few years.

I have three things I want to touch on from what you just said. And one, we probably don't need to go too deep into, but social media being inherently good or evil, I would lean towards. It's a necessary evil in today's society, but at the end of the day, it is as addicting as any drug it is taking. It is, it is not. It is grabbing attention of impressionable people and then stuffing them full of whatever the algorithm says. He thinks they want to get more attention. But yet, man, I was just in Phoenix at something called the Genius Network with one of the most intelligent young people that I had heard speak. And we was talking about how our authority is going to be more important than our websites in terms of the way large language models are going to search. And they're looking for, they're looking for the humans that are the authority. And so like, when I look at everything we've done and everything you've done with your career, your podcast and all of that, all of that authority building content is going to be worth more in the future than it was in the past. And all of that's going to be online and on social media, and it's just the way that. And it's where we need to compete. But, you know, I'm Interested that, you know, you. You actually made a value based decision not to participate in that. Is. Was it all values? Was it economics? Or when you decided that you just didn't want to be a part of it anymore, you just. You just saw that. I mean, I'm really interested. Because that's an inflection point, right? An inflection. We look back and we realize, like, there's probably three to five decisions we've made in our life that had we made a different decision, we would have had a completely different life. And that was one of them. Like, how did you. What went into that decision? How many people did you need to disappoint to make that decision? And like, I can, you know, you killed a perfectly good business.

Why?

Well, you didn't sold it. You sold it. So, you know, hey, I sold it.

I sold it. I mean, I'm not. I'm not Sarah Blakely. I'm not retired on an island with, you know, Sir Richard Branson that I had the honor of interviewing a couple weeks ago. But, you know, we did. Okay. And I think, to answer your question, Jeff, even you talking about it, I can feel my physicality. Like, I just started to get a little bit sweaty when you were talking about, you know, killing a perfectly good business. Because it was a moment that I wish I could unsee it. I wish I could have unseen that moment in the documentary because I realized, you know, you know, I know how sausage is made. I was one of the first evangelists in the social media scene way back when it was first starting, and we were killing it. I mean, we were the agency of record for Freeman xp, some of the largest companies, we were crushing it. I was. I was, you know, 29 years old, making seven figures like it was.

We were.

We were killing it. And coming from immigrant grandparents and coming from, you know, a mom who grew up in Pittsburgh in a steel town, and my dad who was selling hot dogs for Oscar Mayer out of his truck. You know, in college, you know, I was. I had sort of broken the generational curse. I was the first woman in my family to create real wealth. I mean, every woman in my entire family has had to ask a man for money back and back and back since the beginning of time. So, yes, I was killing it, but the problem was, it was also killing me because there was a moment where one of our clients was beach bunny swimwear for Fashion Week, and it was Kate Upton and all these beautiful women. And I employed all women at my agency. So we had 15 women working in Laguna beach on social media. We're throwing all these big parties. All these dealer celebrities were. You were rolling big in L. A. And we're like kids. We're in our 20s, right? We're wild.

And that doesn't sound horrible, by the way.

Yeah, it was fun. But we're burning the candle at both ends. We're making money. We're in media. The Orange County Business Journal named us, like top five startups. We're crushing, right? And I noticed something working on this swimwear campaign that I had this room full of very confident, athletic. We're all surfers and mountain bikers and athletes. And all of a sudden I noticed that the talk of looking at all these women in these beautiful bathing suits with these perfect bodies. We were shooting down in Belize and all of a sudden I noticed all this negative self image, negative body talk. We used to have pizza Fridays. Well, all of a sudden no one wants to eat pizza on Friday. And people are starting to pinch their stuff and tuck their face. And all of a sudden I realized like, hey, we have a client that's actually damaging my formerly confident team of women and making them talk bad about themselves and have negative self talk. And I'm seeing their shoulders go down, I'm seeing them sigh, I'm seeing them lose their sparkle. And all of a sudden I realized this is bigger than business. Like, like this is something that has the power to shift someone's identity and their sense of self and their sense of worthiness and enoughness. And I don't care how much money we're making, that's something that's very serious. And so I couldn't unsee that. I couldn't unhear what I heard in the documentary. And so for me, I remember having that twingy feeling of like. Like I am a cigarette company that doesn't want to smoke. You know, like I am. Like I don't want to get high on my own supply, right? And knowing how it's all made, I mean, we were doing an interview at Apple a couple years ago. I'll never forget, I was interviewing the guy who invented the pull down refresh technology. So you know when you're checking your email, you pull it down. It does that little sort of swirling wheel of death to make you wait while it loads, while people don't know it's not actually loading it, actually your email. And like when you do the same thing on a social media feed, you pull it down, you wait for a second for it to load, you're actually not waiting for it to Load. They created that technology mimicking the same dopamine response of a slot machine. So when you pull the slot machine down, it's the anticipatory energy, like Pavlo's dog, right? Salivating for the steak. And so when you pull it down, you wait for the steak.

Give it to me right now. I gotta have it.

Correct. And so that is the key cornerstone of social media's addictive nature, is it is literally modeled after the gambling technology to activate that center of our brain of addiction. Just like cocaine or alcohol, it's the same part of our brain that lights up, which is why it's so hard to have a healthy relationship. But anyway, so the guy that I interviewed, he was talking about how he has deep regrets, he has deep moral issues, doesn't let his kids use social media. None of the Apple executives let their kids have phones. They know what most people don't, which is that it is inherently harmful if you don't know how to manage it correctly. And I still fight. So, long story short, do I regret selling the business? No. Was it very hard and very expensive? Yes. I had to cut back on my lifestyle dramatically. There was a lot of moments, even to this day, I see a lot of my friends who are running social media empires, and I'm like, Like, it could have been so easy. It could have been so easy. But the truth is, is that once I discovered this new area of expertise through my research and my writing and my speaking, the thing is, energy doesn't lie. And what I know is that when I had my calendar booked full of podcasts and keynotes and consulting, and it was all about social media, I had that, like, all right, I got to get through this week. I got to get through this keynote. I got to get through, get through my energy. Now that I'm walking in alignment with what I believe is my true mission and purpose is I'm like, I get to. Like. Even this morning, I was so excited to hop on this podcast because I love talking about this topic. And I think if you have the audacity to make those tough alignment decisions, ultimately, is it a little hairy in the in between? Sure. But if you have the guts and the courage to stick it out, on the other side is this beautiful sense of impact, of joy, of loving what you do. And by the way, you make more money than you ever could because people are so attracted to that genuine passion when you're in the pocket, when you're in flow like that. So was it hard? Yes. Was it expensive? Yes. Was it terrifying? Yes. Would I do it all over again? Absolutely.

Your research disclosed that vibe was the thing that people most related to in a leader. We say here that it's the vibe that builds the tribe. And there's so many things. It's every connection, every touch point from the. Our franchisee facing people. What makes up Vibe? What are the elements of vibe? Is it verbal? Is it. Is it non verbal? Is it the. Is it the tonation, tonality of people's voices? Is it their eye contact, facial? What. What are all the things that go into somebody's vibe that basically, oh, I like that person. I like their energy. I like their vibe. I want to see what they're. I want to be a part of whatever it is they're doing.

Yeah, well, I'm glad you asked that question, because when you talk about energy, some people think sustainability, right? They think power plants and solar. People think caloric energy. You know, getting your enough calories and balancing so energy. There's, you know, you have thermal energy, you have. There's so many different kinds, potential energy, kinetic. So when we're talking about energy for our purposes, I'm talking about. I'm gonna get a little nerdy here. For your, for your listeners. We're gonna get a little bit like physicists for a second.

Hey, get nerdy with me.

We're getting nerdy. I'm getting my glasses on. Here we go. So you can ask your favorite physicist, but the first law of thermodynamics is the law that talks about that energy cannot be created or destroyed. So the problem with people talking about, how can I get more energy, how can I have more energy? Is you actually can't. You can't get or have any more energy because energy is not an entity that you possess. It's an experience that you process. It's a transfer. So when you think about energy, energy is eternal. Okay? So when you say, like, Jeff has good energy, you don't have good energy. You and I are experiencing a transfer of energy. You're active, listening, you're nodding your head, you're warm, you're engaging, your eyes are crinkling up, you're leaning in, you're allowing me the experience of what warm energy feels just like sunlight or a breeze or feeling water on your body. It's an experience. It's a process. So when you talk about getting more energy, what you're really trying to do is unblock more, access to the experience of energy, which is not something you have to generate. It's something you have to liberate, you have to tap into it, invite it more into your world. So that's sort of the first question. That's the reason why add to cart to get and create more energy isn't working. We've never had more things on Instagram we can buy to have more energy. You know, cold plunges and red light therapy and saunas and supplements and dry brushing and cupping and goat yoga. Right. So all this is great, it's all working for you. Amazing. But the truth is, is that it's not an add to cart situation. It's really a look in mirror and figure out where the biggest blocks are to you accessing the energy that already exists in your life. So that's where we kind of try to talk through, okay, well how do we do that? Right. So what are our biggest blocks? And what we found in our study was actually there are, there's two groups of people in the study. So one group had the higher energy levels as well as the higher life satisfaction score. Shocker. That was a very small percent of the participants in the study. Most people had lower general. We call them their energetic battery score where it's like, hey, over the last 90 days, on a scale from 1 to 10, where's your battery? Highs, lows, good night's sleep, bad night's sleep, Talk to me, Goose. Right. And the crazy thing was is that most people who had lower energy levels and more importantly that lower life satisfaction score, they don't feel excited about the future. They don't self identify as successful, they don't feel like someone who's joyful and excited for what's happening next. They really had three big mistakes they made. The first thing was they talked a lot about trying to do it all, about trying to do more and more and add this and buy this and scroll through Instagram and try to keep up. The second thing they tried to do was they talked a lot about ditching it. All right? They're the ones that are like, well, I'm in this job or this situation with a coworker or a customer and it's not good for my energy. So I'm just going to like set it free. I'm just going to walk away. They kind of had quick culture energy, right? And the third thing that people who had low energy and low life satisfaction score is that they were avoiders. They dodged things a bit. They weren't seekers of clarity, they didn't close those loops, they weren't decisive in terms of their actions and their game plans. And so what we found is that those three areas were the biggest. Think of it as, think of your energy as a water, like a stream.

Yeah.

And it's the experience of water. There's tides, there's motion. It's constantly going to picture three big boulders blocking your access to that experience of energy. These were the three biggest boulders. Now, on the flip side, people in our study that had high energy and high life satisfaction score, they were the antithesis. They didn't have those boulders blocking access to their energy. So for the first one, they didn't try to do it all. They understand that effort is expensive. Right. Effort and energy have an inverse relationship. So what? What? So what's free? What's free is your instinct, what comes naturally to you, your strengths when you're in the pocket, like for you being a former college athlete, when you're working in flow with all of your boards and your companies, like there's, I'm sure, meetings that were three hours for like two minutes because you were in flow, you were in the zone. Where did time go? Right. So that's the athlete's peak performance zone. That's you tapping into your energy instinct. We can dial into those a little deeper in a second. The second thing that they did, the high energy participants, was in terms of quitting. If they were in a situation with a business, with a friend, with a colleague, with an investor, with a co worker, they didn't just say, walk away and say, I quit. It's not for me. They were more likely to make decisions around shifting. Okay, how can I shift this? How can I make a decision that is more aligned with my role or my values or the season that I'm in? So I always give the example of like Oprah Winfrey. Right. So I come from Baltimore, Maryland originally. And my first event at college was I sold TV advertising. We used to cold call out of the yellow pages to print out MapQuest directions, to drive in person to show a printed out PowerPoint, to get a paper check, to advertise on broadcast television. So I'm 109. None of that is relevant in 2025. But I had to make 100 cold calls a day. And I was rejected like 8,000 times in two years. So now I'm bulletproof. And it was the best training ever. Invite in the rejection. Right? But anyway, so the most famous alumni from our TV station in Baltimore is actually Oprah Winfrey. And people don't realize in the 70s, Oprah was actually the primetime anchor. She had the pay and the prestige and the Power. But people don't realize when she was reading off the teleprompter, the video that shows you kind of what to say next, it's very scripted. She was too expressive. She was too emotional. She was too much. The producers asked her to tone it down. The ratings were going down. The harder she was trying to be in this box where they wanted her, the more frustrated she was. And so she did the unthinkable. Oprah actually asked to be demoted to daytime television. Way less pay, way less power, way less prestige. And everyone thought she was crazy. But when she shifted to that format, having real conversations with real people with real insights, she lit up. They lit up. She was energized. They were energized. Oprah's energy instinct was not to be reporting. It was to be relating. It wasn't about. It wasn't about her reading a teleprompter. Her energy instinct was reading people. And when she shifted, when she changed the channel, she didn't quit television. What if Oprah had quit television? She shifted where she was showing up, and in doing so, reached 40 million people a week for a quarter of a century. That's impact. That's not just changing your job. That's changing lives. But she could have been like, oh, I'm not good at television. Just throw it. Throw in the towel. And a lot of people do that, right? We throw out the baby with the bathwater, but we're missing all the good stuff, too. So the people in our study that had really high energy, they were the shifters. They were the, how can I make alignment my assignment and not just be so quick to quit? And then the third area where the big energy beings really shine. And I saw an Insta LinkedIn post of yours the other day. It's funny, I was kind of giving you a search before we hopped on, and one of your posts, you talked about clarity and the importance of decision making and clarity. And you hit the nail on the head, Jeff, because that is what the big. We call them, the big energy beings, the babes, the big energy beings. In our study, they were all about closing the loops, clarity. They didn't allow this opacity, this. This unresolved. What do they mean by this text or this email or what are we doing? They didn't live in that analysis. Paralysis, gray zone, space. They were decisive. They closed loops. They asked for clarity. They made moves. They left old neighborhoods of comfort for new highways of opportunity. And that was the biggest difference. And so when you look at your own business and your own life. It's like, are you trying to do it all when you should be tapping into what you're really good at, your instinct? Are you trying to ditch it all when maybe it's just a shift, not a quit? And finally, are you trying to dodge things a little bit, where instead of that chaos and that confusion, which is like having a bunch of apps open on your phone and it's draining your battery silently in the background, close that loop, get that answer. Keep that battery charged. That clarity will free up so much energy for that water to flow so you can access that energy that is already there in your life. It's just blocked.

Beautifully said. That's. That's amazing. And it makes sense if you're unplugged and you're avoiding. You're. You have. You have no power. It's gone. I'm interested in your take on relationships. You've had to apply this to partner spouse relationships. You've got a battery. One has a negative post, the other one has a positive post. You've got opposites, and one has high energy and the other one has low energy. What. What is the interpersonal relationship and your most important relationships? And how can. How does that energy field play? Have you done any research around that or any thought around that?

Yes. So it's interesting that you brought this up. So I love that you said high energy or low energy, because that's a very subjective way to talk about energy. So what's high vibe to you might not be high vibe to somebody else. You know, if you think about. If you think about from a leadership standpoint. Right. So a lot of leaders are extroverts. We're super connectors. But what fires you and I up, Jeff, as former athletes, might not fire up someone on our team, but as leaders and managers, we tend to lead and manage the way that we like to be led and managed. So for us as college athletes, I love someone getting in my face and yelling at me. I love someone being like, we have. We have three minutes to score a touchdown. I'm like, let's go. Like, that fires me up. Yeah, but. So my husband has a totally different energy style. He's an academic, he's an inventor, he's an AI guy. He's a programmer. When I'm like, when I try to put the pressure on, he crumbles, he falls apart. He can't. It does the opposite. He needs space to process and think and organize. And so when we're talking about peak performance moments. So, for example, we just raised Around a funding for his new company. So he can't. Sales and people is like his nightmare. We're total opposites. Right. So he got. He was sweating, he couldn't talk. Meanwhile, for me, I felt like I was in the zone. This is where I thrive. Right. And so I think for each of us, it's about understanding how your energy works best and knowing that high and low energy is different for each person. So in our study, we actually found that there are five different kind of energetic experiences that will energize or drain you, depending on how you're wired. So how you're. How you're energetically wired is as distinct as your DNA. So there's five key ways that we are all powering up or draining on a daily basis. Now if we had time to do all the things. So picture a grid, right? Picture the top of this grid is like physical, creative, spiritual, mental, social, all those things, you know, those are all the spaces we find energy. Most people know those. Right, right. But picture along the other side of the grid, the three key sources of energy. These are the ones people don't really think about as much. And the three biggest sources of actual energy, you know? Yes. Okay. Kale, sleeping, water. We know. Right. But on the side, the three sources are a sense of connection to others or something bigger than ourselves. Number two, a sense of competence. So doing challenging but doable activities with immediate feedback. And finally, a sense of control, a sense of autonomy or agency over our desk. This is why the franchise model. By the way, whenever I train franchise companies, I've worked with Great Clips and Fit Body, Bootcamp and Smoothie King. When you look at the franchise model, that's why franchise owners are so energized about the opportunity. Because they can connect to others in a bigger mission than themselves. They can see immediate results as they're working the process. And finally they have that sense of control. And so these are the three key sources of energy. So of course, if we feel in control, competent and connected in a physical, mental, spiritual, emotional, social way, we have perfect energy. But in what world are you ever going to have all those? No. So it's really important to understand your fastest path to power. Where is that intersection for you? And knowing that looks like all the different five energy sort of types have different energy levels. So for example, one of the energy types is called responsive. Responsive energy are people that need a lot of space to process is the deep impacts energetically. So if you try to force them into a decision trying to sell a responsive energy, it's a hard no, you're not getting the deal done because the more you push, the more they shrink. But they are programmed to have their high energy is actually much lower than a kinetics high energy. Kinetics, high energy. They're the ones, they're the athletes, their fastest pack. The power is to compete. They love a challenge. So their high energy is actually not as high as a responsive. So everyone has different baseline levels where that's them bringing their best. And from a leadership perspective, it's important to understand that your high energy is not going to always feel like someone else's. What's more important than the level is what powers them up. So if you have someone that's a generative, generative energy needs to create. So if you have someone in a franchise model that you're managing that has generative energy and you are putting them in the rinse and repeat and the process and the rhythm and this, and you're giving them zero room to create, a tweak on something, a whiteboard, a new idea. If you give them zero room to create, it doesn't matter how perfectly you're working the process, they are going to have that lower vibe. Passive aggressive, per my last email. Email vibe. Right. Because you're not tapping into what makes them shine. On the other hand, if you have a synergistic energy, their fastest path to power is to connect. Is that you?

That's the connector. That's what your energy test told me.

Okay, so you're the connector. So for you, Jeff, the pandemic when we were all quarantined, sure it was hard for everybody. But for people with your energy type, not being able to connect to other people and that higher purpose, feeling like, what is the purpose and where are my people? Quarantine was 8,000 times harder for you at an energetic level than the average bear because you're someone that to this day, people that are still work from home or siloed, if they have your energy type, they are not going to be able to bring their best vibe to work because it's not tapping into the way that they're wired.

Right. That makes sense. That makes sense. I have a can't miss book here and it's a big pink book and it says you're kind of a big deal by Aaron King. And I was reviewing the book. I'm not going to say that I read the whole thing. I read a couple of chapters and then I ran short of time and I was reviewing it. But there's a couple of things I want to ask you about, and one chapter is become a bad listener. What does that mean?

Okay, so it's obviously intentionally to stir the pot and make someone go, what?

Pot is stirred?

Pot is stirred. So obviously, as salespeople, as podcasters, as communicators, we know that being an active, great listener is so key. It's key with our spouses, it's key with our prospects. The world's greatest salespeople are the world's greatest listeners. You're listening for that pain, what they need, how you can feel, how you can close that loop, right? So being an incredible listener is super important. And, and, and, and when you're thinking about making a big life move, if you are dodging a big unclosed loop in your life, who you're with, where you're living, what you're doing for work, big, juicy, high stakes crossroads moments, you have to be very careful who you're listening to to make that decision. The challenge is, is that in 2025, a lot of us will consult Instagram before we consult our intuition. We will scroll and look for the answers externally from family, friends, influencers, what the world is telling us versus flipping it around, looking inside and knowing that, yeah, it does take guts to go with your gut. Now here's, here's the line, okay? Because here's the thing. If you listen to everyone around you and not yourself, terrible idea. If you're a delusionally confident, you know, bragasaurus, and you just think that you have all the answers, also not good, right? So how do you walk that line between I don't listen to anyone and I'm taking in the world's opinion and I have no idea what my actual point of view is, what my moral compass is, what my true north looks like. The solution that I found a few years ago was I created my own personal board of directors. Okay? So my personal board of directors has six people on it. It's two people who are senior to me, two people that are peers and two people that are junior. And they are the hardest ones to listen to because they don't want to talk ever. They just want to text. They never want to talk to you. But the perspective above, beside, and below me of people that have no vested interest, they're not making money off me, I'm not making money off them. They're just trusted advisors in my life that want to see me shine, and I want to see them shine. When I'm at those big crossroads moments, I look inward, I listen to myself, and then I run it by my personal board of directors. So I'm being very intentional about the voices that get a vote. And so that sort of, that's the advice of becoming a bad listener. It's more are you being really strategic and intentional about the inputs that are ultimately going to decide your outputs?

Right. Internal versus external locus of control. Chris Collins wrote a two book set called I Am Leader and it really landed with me. And once you see it, you can't unsee it. 90% of people have an external locus of control, meaning they, they let things that are outside of their control impact their decisions as opposed to saying I'm responsible, you know, it's, you know, what happened, things are going to happen to me, things are going to happen that are outside of my control and but I can't let that determine who I am or what I do. I just have to react and adopt to it. So people that are looking for things to blame or, you know, oh, I found something on Instagram, per your example. So I'm not going to do this business idea because you know of something I saw on Instagram which is absolutely ridiculous, but people do it because they're looking for validation. We're bias creating animals. We want to create bias. We want, you know, we're looking for anybody to tell us that it's a good idea or a bad idea when actually it's, it's a little harder but to actually just sit down with yourself and do the work and correct. So for your board of directors, do you, are these personal issues or just business issues?

Both.

Okay.

Both. Both. Well, the problem is as an entrepreneur I have a hard time blurring the lines between work is life and life is work. So I'm not the average bear, I'm sure for more of like my brother works for Google. He's very corporate. So for him it's two total, totally different worlds. But I think for us as entrepreneurs, it's tough sometimes. Work and life, sort of all that is an area that I'm not great at drawing boundaries to distinguish it. But I think to your point earlier, I think what's interesting there is we're also seeking acceptance and as tribal, as community, as villagers, you know, at an ancestral level, we want to be part of the pack. We want to be protected and safe. We don't want to go out into the wilderness by ourselves. That's where the saber tooth, tiger and enemy tribes are. We crave a sense of you want everyone's buy in so you feel part of that community. Back to our Conversation earlier. A big source of energy is connection, connection to others. And when you are listening to that inner compass and you're starting your fourth company, even though two of them almost bankrupted you, no one's like, great idea. You're waiting for a validation that will never come. And the truth is, is that, you know, I'm from Maryland and there's, we eat a lot of crabs there in Maryland. And if you put a bunch of crabs in a pot and you start boiling them, if you ever watch it and one crab starts to almost get out, they'll claw the side and they're starting to climb out of the top of the pot, all the other crabs will be like, oh, no you don't. And they will reach up and drag the crab back down with the them. And a lot of times when you are trying to climb out of that boiling water and ascend to the next level, people want you to be successful until you are successful. And then they want you to come back down to where they are. Because when they see you defying their excuses, when they see you challenging their limiting beliefs, it forces them to look in the mirror in a way that they don't want to. They don't want to see that the stories they're telling themselves maybe aren't gospel truth the way they've convinced themselves that it is. And so I think that, you know, it's funny, I do a lot of sales training and one of my clients is Barbara Corcoran's real estate team. And I'll never forget, we were at a meeting and I was doing, I'm doing sales training for one of the greatest salespeople of all time. Not intimidating at all. But I'll never forget I was chatting with her backstage at an event in Florida and she said, you know, I said, well, how do you know who's gonna make you your money back? Like, I love Shark Tank. I love watching those episodes. Like, what is your biggest indicator? And she said, erin, when I am advising a brand new entrepreneur who I've invested in and I give them all my advice and they ignore everything that I say and do whatever they want anyway, that's when I know I'm making my money back. Because they have their eyes on the prize, they have a strong compass, they are trusting their gut. She goes, as soon as they ignore everything I say, I know I'm going to get a 10x return. Now does that work every time? No. Laws of investing is you're going to have, you're going to have your one big Whale and you're going to get screwed 99% of the time. My husband and I are huge investors. We've invested in more apps and platforms and businesses. Two, two have hit in like 15 years. But that's how it goes. Right? But so there's an element to it of sort of that, that entrepreneurial audacity and listening to that inner voice and that tug and that pull. And the problem is, once you get bit by that entrepreneurial bug or, you know, there's a book called Big Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert, that's a wonderful book for an entrepreneur, if you ever read it. And she talks about this idea that ideas have souls and that an idea will float into you and if you're not going to birth it into the world, it'll find someone else to birth it into the world. Right. And so there's this idea of like, if you have this tug, if you have this whisper and you don't listen to it, someone else is going to do it. And so getting attuned to that tug and knowing that the longer you ignore it, the louder it's going to get. It's like, it's like ideation debt. The longer you ignore it, the bigger it gets, the juicier it gets, until you have to either pull the trigger, trust your gut and say, life is short, let's do this, or someone else will. So I think for even your franchisee owners, everyone knows that tug, they've all had that tug, that feeling that they're made for more. And why not me?

Yeah. So many of the greatest principles are counterintuitive to, to say to invest in a company and then love that the founder ignores everything that you say because they understand the business better than you do and they're like, I'm not going to let you screw it up. Like, that's a sense of ownership and pride and knowledge and probably, you know, if it's like, like 10 investments, two are going to be home runs, you know, one's going to tank and hopefully the rest of them are pushes. Right? But hopefully you put enough chips on the table. I have said many times that envy is the enemy of enlightenment. And when I found myself being jealous, and that was some real self work that I'd done when I found myself being jealous of people or saying, hey, that person's got a bigger businessman than me and they're 10 years younger than me. And, you know, you start looking at your age and your background and you know, your, what you haves and you know where you've been And I help them. And now they're this and that. And the whole thing is so is such an energy drain. It's counterproductive. It's not good for your soul. It's petty, it's small. What's your take on jealousy?

I think that your jealousy can be your ultimate genius. My husband and I are big boaters. And a couple years ago we were fortunate enough to go over to the Monaco Yacht Show. And I'll never forget it. We were in Monaco and we. We have a. We're in Newport Beach, California. So it's a pretty special place. We thought we had seen it all. Oh, no. So you see the one boat, right? And this boat has a helipad and it has a pool and a movie theater. And you're like, oh my God, that's the biggest boat I've ever seen. Then you walk two, two feet down. Oh, no, that's the little boat for the bigger. It's the chase boat for the bigger, bigger boat that has three helipads. Oh, wait, this one can fit a jet. Oh, wait. It was like kewpie doll, mega yacht. Bigger and bigger and bigger. And my mind was just. I couldn't get my head around the 1% of the 1% of the 1% and the billionaires trying to outperform the millionaires. And it was just this moment of clarity that maybe people have had or haven't had, but it's like this idea of this comparison is this endless unwinnable game. And so the way that I've reframed it for my business and my life, and I teach this to a lot of my students in my courses, is that there's a difference between healthy competition and unhealthy comparison. There's a difference. So healthy competition is what I like to call what you're calling envy, what I was calling jealousy. Healthy competition says you see someone doing something and you think to yourself, well, if they can do it, why not me, right? Or if you're at Orangetheory, finish on the treadmill, and you have a gal 10 years older than you and she's pumping up the speed a little bit, and you're looking over and you're kinda dragon butt that day. You look over and you're like, this woman is 55, she's running a fast. Oh, heck no. But, but, but, you know, so that, that's healthy. Like, you know, this idea of everyone gets a trophy. I don't subscribe to that. I think it's not like whoever played the hardest wins. Like, it's It's a healthy thing. It's one of the fastest ways for you to unlock peak performance. Know what you're really made of. See how far you can stretch yourself. Stretching and straining are two different things. Healthy stretching is good. It's powerful. It creates confidence, it creates energy. It creates. Let's go. Good job me. Right? So when you see someone shining, it's good job them. Now let's go me. That's the healthy side. The unhealthy side is unhealthy comparison. That's when you look at someone else and you say, oh, why not me? I could never. They must have gotten lucky. It's a completely negative, energetic framing of observing what someone else is doing or having or being with. And so I think being really super clear, when you feel the little tug, immediately we think, okay, we're jealous. It's envy. But then next question. Okay, is this a little healthy competition? Is this a little fuel for the tank? Is this a little let's get a little get up and go because, okay, let's go. Oh, they have five franchises. Well, that's weird because I beat them on the golf course last week. I wonder what else I could. Maybe we need to get another franchise. Okay, Right. But it's. But it's good job. Then let's go meet abundance mindset. Plenty for everyone. Let's go. It's a little gas in the tank, but versus this idea of unhealthy comparison which will drain your battery, which will make you feel not enough. You will get stuck down that black scroll hole of insta doom scrolling comparison forever and ever. And that is the biggest. One of the. Back to our original conversation. That is one of the biggest evils of social media. This idea of all of a sudden, you know, everyone else's highlight reel, which by the way is carefully curated and filtered and fake news, but you're still looking and saying, oh, I thought I had a pretty great weekend. My husband and I did a little mountain bike, met some friends, and you're like, oh, they're in San Tropez. Okay, I guess our weekend wasn't that great. But you have to figure out for yourself. And this is something that's really important for me. Figuring out your enoughness point is the key to being a high achiever who's also high enjoying. So one of my girlfriends, her name is Alison Levine, and she was the first captain of the all Women's Everest team. And she climbed Everest twice. The first time she was 100ft away from Everest and a storm Came through, she could see the top. And they had to turn back around and climb all the way back down. And keep in mind, when you're climbing Everest, by the way, every single base camp, you have to climb up to the next level of base camp. Wait, acclimate. People don't realize this. The next day you have to climb all the way back down again. And then you climb up a little further. The next day you sleep, you acclimate, and then the next day you have to climb all the way back. So you're going backwards to ascend. Right. Which is a really beautiful way of thinking about entrepreneurship because so many times we feel like we're pausing to recalibrate. It's like a slingshot. You feel like you're going backwards, but you're getting the momentum to propel forward. Right. But so she said, erin, you know, when I climbed Everest the second time, knowing what your summit looks like is really important because guess what? People who climb Everest, they look around just to make sure there's no higher peak that's left to be climbed. And so thinking about the hedonic treadmill, thinking about this idea of the never enoughness of moving our set point every single time we achieve. If you've ever run, I run half marathons. If you ever run like a half marathon or a race or something, as soon as you do it, you're happy for two seconds. And then you're like, well, next time we're gonna do it faster, better, stronger. You know, we're constantly trying to like, be more and go and go. And it's wonderful. But you have to know what success looks like for you. And I'm not even just talking about to do's numbers, metrics. I'm talking also about to feels. Because I will tell you, some of the people that I know in this world that make more money than anyone are some of the most miserable humans you've ever met. And some of the people that have nothing are some of the most joyful people you've ever met. So this correlation between money and success, prosperity and happiness, joy and satisfaction, truly is a bridge that only you can create. You have to decide that success looks like this. It's this much money, it's this lifestyle, it's this feeling, it's this freedom over my time. It's this impact in the world. Write it out, sketch it out. And when you get there, recognize that you got there. It's a place. And if you want to move the point again, that's up to you. But knowing that You've arrived is very important to complete again, clarity, closing that loop. That's the energizer. Yeah.

So if I'm at a conference and I'm at a table with somebody who's a competitor and you know, if I feel that twinge of jealousy and you know, I, I sat down at the table last month or something and There was a 500 million dollar guy sitting there, right? And, yeah, and, and I didn't know it at the time, but then afterwards I'm like, oh, I met him and I should have known. But like, I kind of did my standard and where are you from? You know, whatever. And yes, I could just see that it was not well received in the moment or whatever. So then there was this little, this little comparison thing that, you know, whatever. And my tool in the moment is to, if I ever feel myself getting into a competition like that, an unhealthy competition, is to say, what can I learn? But I unlock it by giving a compliment. And I would say, okay, you know, hey, you know, I've seen you, I've seen you, I haven't met you, but I'm really impressed with the team that you've built and I know what you put together or I really like your branding or, you know, whatever it is, you know, just some compliment. And that has a way of disarming people. It's a way to connect and it's a way to put yourself, you know, and there's this thing of control in all conversations, right? Like who's really in, who's 55 and who's 45. Like great salespeople. Great salespeople understand the power of who's leading the dance and who's following the dance. And, you know, very carefully and very subtly putting yourself, you know, kind of leaning back a little bit, exposing your belly a little bit by giving them a compliment and taking a less aggressive posture. And then they'll lean in and they'll say, well, you know, thank you, man. I, you know, I appreciate that. And now, now you're, now that whole competition thing goes away and then it's like, what can I learn from this person? And. But to learn something from this person, because they probably have. If I'm feeling jealous, that means they actually have done something well and they are winning at something. Or maybe we sell against other people and maybe. I'm aware that we had three deals in the last two months where we were competing and they won. They got the franchisee and we didn't get the franchisee. I'll Say it. I'll say you've taken three. We would have loved to have those owners and they went with you. And you know, so you must be doing something really right over there. Congratulations, you know, and whatever, like, whatever it is. And now, now that whole, that now the dance is, now we're engaged together and if for nothing else, they're going to leave that conversation saying, that guy really wasn't a dick. You know, he was like, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, like that was, that was a pretty, that was a decent human right there. And I had, I had a good interaction. So then the other side of it is you can't, you can't charge your battery all in one sitting, right? So that's just the beginning of the relationships. That's just the beginning of the conversation. And when you see that person the next time you might have a 30 minute conversation and it's disarmed. So now you're in front of it. You can't, you know, you got to, you've got to be playing the long game sometimes. So with that, I ask you, you've got your, your tools and your toolkit. You've got the Energy Exam. It's on Aaron king dot com. I took it very similar to maybe a culture index where you're asked different shades of, you know, kind of opposing different things on it. But I highly recommend that people go to aaron king.com and aaronking.com and take the energy exam and you have an opportunity to learn a lot about yourself and get some good tools. What are some tools that you recommend to people? Some of the most basic tools that people could use to help them either assess or, or to channel their energy.

Yes. So the biggest thing with the Energy exam to understand is that there are a million personality tests out there. You got strengths finders, you got Myers Briggs, you know, your enneagram, you're a seven, you're a red, you're a bear. It's like, okay, we got it right. And I think what's really different about what we've developed here with these PhDs that helped me to create the assessment is that it's not just how your energy feels to you, which is what charges you, what trains you, who you're compatible with, who you're not compatible with and why and what to do about it, which is probably one of the biggest elements of the tool, but our assessment also tells you how the world perceives your energy. Because how you think you come across energetically isn't always necessarily how the people around you watch yourself back on camera. Watch yourself on a podcast interview, and you'll be like, wow, didn't know I was coming across that way. Right? So, yeah, whatever you watch. I mean, if you're like me, Jeff, I mean, it's brutal watching yourself on video. You're like, really? People pay me to do things like that is crazy. You were so hard on ourselves. We're so critical, because how we think we're coming across isn't always how we're perceived. And so if you want to get that really juicy accountability, authentic 360 view of your vibe, this is the tool to help you do that. And what's interesting is going back to your conversation earlier about, like, giving people compliments that are really successful. I think it's compliments and it's curiosity. Right? But it's that it's compliments and that genuine curiosity. Because the more successful someone is, the sharper their BS meter, the smarter they are.

Yes.

The more they know a empty compliment when they see one. Like, you know, one of the things I teach in my sales training is if you're gonna give someone a compliment, make sure it is specific and genuine. Because if it's not specific and not genuine, it will backfire. Not only will you not create rapport and trust, it will, in fact, do the opposite. So, for example, this is kind of mean, but sometimes people will be like, on podcasts earlier, you were. You were honest. You're like, hey, I didn't read the whole thing. Right? But I've been on so many podcasts where I can tell they didn't read the book. And so I'll be like. They'll be like, oh, I loved your book. And I'll be like, oh, which part? And then they're like, oh, they just crumble. Right? So. So be careful. If you're going to be giving a compliment, make sure it's genuine. Do your homework. Right? Research is when you're listening.

I was talking to Jordan Peterson, Okay. I was talking to Jordan Peterson at an event, and I said, I really appreciate what you've done because you've changed the way that I think. Right. And he turned and he looked at me and he said, how you know that's right? Called me out on it.

Wolf of Wall street wolfing at you?

Yeah. I mean, he called me right out on it. And I, you know, for that moment in this world, I had Jordan Peterson's attention. He turned to me. He was eyeballed. He leaned in. He was six inches from my face, and he wanted to Know, and I had the answer, you know, and the answer that I had was, you have taught me how to hold two opposing views and debate two opposing views at the same time. So that when I'm on stage, if I want a question to be asked that I wish somebody would ask, but I want to make it more engaging that I will go into a dialogue with myself and I can say, well, you might ask. Or you know, he go, he has this, he has this way of articulating both sides of the argument. Well then you might say it might be this. Well, then I would answer this. And it's just a very powerful way of being able to hold an audience and be able to actually get, you know, more definition and more clarity around and think, you know, and I, I, in the moment, I almost choked, you know, and, but like at the end of the day.

But you recovered, you recovered.

I delivered it and he said he accepted the answer and, you know, took the picture with the next person. But.

Yeah, no, that's so good. Well, you know, it's funny that you brought that up. You know, it was F. Scott Fitzgerald who said that the sign of the truest, greatest intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing views in your mind at the same time and still function.

Yes.

I mean, it's Socratic arguments, it's both sides of the table. Because what you're doing is you're bringing everyone in and allowing themselves to see themselves in your journey, in your story, in your argument, no matter where they are. So it's genius. I mean, brilliant answer. But anyway, yeah, so that's one thing I just wanted to say, caveat. Make sure if you're doing the compliment, that it's genuine, that you've done your homework, because you will get caught flat footed and it will backfire. But yeah, so the energy exam, super helpful. You check it out. If you're a leader, I would say the biggest tool to answer your question five minutes later is to know the power word for each person on your team. So if you're managing two people, you don't have time to pull out your seven step leadership framework. If someone is melting down, there's friction, there's an unhappy customer, there's coworkers that aren't collaborating, whatever the fire is for that day. Most modern leaders do not have time to sit down and pull out all these manuals, the eight steps, the five framework, this and this and this. So for me, managing a team of 35 people, I needed a shortcut. I needed to know very quickly, quick and dirty. What do I need to do to reframe the situation? To lead them in a way that is going to increase positivity, productivity and profitability. And so that's what I created with this energy exam. You're going to see that if you understand the energy type of people on your team, there is one word that is our fastest word to power. So Jeff, your word is connect. So if I'm managing you, I'm trying to lead you, you're not the shiny person you once were. There's friction, you're low vibe. Okay, let's reframe this. How can I help Jeff either connect to someone else or how do I reconnect him back to the higher mission? The higher why? You're the kind of employee that if I remind you our why, our give back our impact, that is going to power you up in two seconds more than any seven step training whatever, right? If you're generative, I'm allowing them to create. If kinetic, how can I add competition? If they're responsive, how can I help create some space for them? And most importantly, if they're rigorous, they need order. If there's too much, let's create and be fun. They're like, no, no, no, no, no. How can I create the list, the spreadsheet, the process. So just being able to know everyone's fastest word, their fastest path to energy, you can click the lens of any situation in two seconds and know how to dial in that scientific shortcut to their personal power source.

Have you ever been involved in a coaching or consulting situation where you said, look, I need to install a step down transformer for this person. They need to dial it back a bit. Their energy is, is just, it's over. It's blowing people's circuits.

Well, says who? I don't know who, who's saying their energy is too much?

Well, I don't know. Have you, have you ever felt that somebody's energy was too much, too high High or they needed to, they needed to manage their energy in such a way that they could connect and be more effective.

Well, okay, so again, that's like subjective, right? Because so my energy is too much for lots of people. My grandmother used to always say, she would tell me, love, it's better to be someone shot of whiskey than everyone's cup of tea, right? And so if you're everything to everyone, you're a cup of tea, you're vanilla, you're everything to everyone, nothing to no one, right? And so energy, that's not too much, it's Too much for that person. So that's not the person that you want to be doing business with anyway. So that's why. That's why these little pivots are so helpful. So, for example, let's say that you're someone on your team. You can't just, you know. Or let's say it's your boss. You can't fire your boss, okay? But it's like this. There's friction, okay? Like, there's. It's not working. So it's important to understand how they're wired. Like what. What. What they really care about. That's why this energy exam is so helpful. Helpful because you can understand. Like, okay, the reason that we're not getting along is because my boss is someone who thrives on order. I thrive on creativity. That there's our rub right there, right? Because we are not like that. We don't like to roll the same way. And so that's where you can. You make tweaks. You can acquiesce how you're showing up to say, okay, knowing that my boss thrives on order, and I'm more of a wild card, wing it salesperson. What if I just brought a. I mean, what if I just emailed him literally. Or her, like, three bullets before every meeting, Just give him a little mini agenda just because I know that's the way her or his brain works. Something so simple like that. You're setting up that conversation. You have to change who you are. Oh, my God. I'm not being myself, not being creative. No. You know that your boss thrives on order. Send a mini agenda with three bullets. It's. There's these simple micro tweaks to how you're showing up to not be a chameleon, but be respectful of the way that they like to show up and shine. Right? But as far as being too much or not enough, that's where the energetic compatibility comes into play. And that's where I believe that, you know, when you're talking about, like, the 500 million guy at the conference or whatever, or the franchisee you didn't get, there's an element to this, too, where the most attractive, persuasive, influential energy is one of calm, secure abundance. The least attractive energy is pick me energy.

Yes.

The least attractive energy is I'm going to win this at all costs, no matter what. No, you won't. Because even if you can, even if you can Trojan horse them into that deal, energy never lies. And the real you, the real vibe, the real way will surface whether it's now or later. That's why. That's why thorough vendor vetting is so critical. Because once you get in bed with someone, you have to make sure you really know who they are. Because if they reveal their true colors halfway through, well, now you're half pregnant. You're $3 million into the project. You're screwed. Right. So that's why we have to do energetic due diligence and understanding that not everyone's energy is for you. Client wise, customer wise. I mean, there's an element of, like, tweak a little bit to make it a little more harmonious. But ultimately know that whatever is for you, whoever is for you, will not pass you by.

You've got a new book coming out, the Energy Instinct. Are you in a position to talk about that yet? And when is it due?

It's due.

Speaking of being half pregnant.

Yeah, half pregnant. It's due. The baby's due next September, spring 2026. April. And we're really excited about it. You know, I feel like it's interesting. Are you. Do you read full books still, Jeff, or are you more of like, dump it into AI and give me the 10 key points? Or are you. Are you a voracious reader? Tell me more about your.

Yeah, but I find myself, once I get the gist of it, it's hard to sit down. And although last Sunday I sat down and read Tuesdays with Maury, for some reason, three hours straight. It's a great book, you know, and just great book. But I do, I do enjoy getting into a full book, you know, if. If it is a business book and it's going to take me six hours to get through, I'll probably have. I'll put two hours into it, two and a half, and I'll go through and I'll, I'll, I'll read the first whatever. But I do the best I can. But I do like the book. Yes.

Yes. Okay. Okay. So I'm a bibliophile as well. English major. I read about two books a week. I love a good physical book. And I also have a toxic trait that I cannot stop reading a book until I finish it. Even if I hate it, I force myself to finish it, which is such a waste of energy. I don't know why I do that to myself. But one thing that I'm doing with this book is I do always skip the introduction. And I tend to tune out with books that do that slow build of like the sequential in the beginning there. What? Right. Like, I like books that Dive right in media res into the heart of the action. Like, drop me into the explosion. Drop me into the fire. Drop me into the moment. And so I'm trying to write the book in a way that is the kind of book that I like to read. And I'm also keeping it short because I think, sadly, our attention spans have been scrolled away to little nubs. So. Yeah, but I'm looking forward to it.

I agree 100%. And if you look at. Think about the intro that I did here with you today, and I used to wait and I'm like, well, I hope. I hope this comes out. I hope that comes out. So I developed this. If you and I just put the biggest, most heavy hitting, most interesting things, I give it to everybody in the first 30 seconds, and then we just dive right into it. Energy. What lights you up, right? Because, like, don't. Don't let.

Don't bury the lead.

Don't bury the lead. Let's get right into it. And, you know, I'm not going to make them wait for 20 minutes to figure out all these great things about Aaron King. I'm going to put all the best things right up front that I can discern and then dive right into it. And then. And then, you know, then we wander around to these other areas and we get to where we want to go. And, And. And yeah, I think it has helped us. Our retention is. Is been up since I started doing the intro that way. So, you know, people are trying to make sense of it, right? They're trying to make sense of what? Why am I here? What am I going to get? What am I going to listen to?

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I will say, Jeff, So I have personally recorded on my podcast over 500 episodes. I've interviewed so many people, and being on the other side of the camera for this conversation, I have to say, your style of interviewing, obviously you're prepared. You did your homework, you had your questions, you had your points. But I love that you were very. Yes. And so whatever I would say you would kind of. Yes. And you'd move organically and then kind of naturally bring it back. I mean, you have a really beautiful style. You can tell, you put in the reps. And I think this is a great podcast, a great platform, and really just honored to be here today and share whatever I know with your community, and I just think you're crushing it. So, really stoked you invited me here today.

Well, thank you. That's incredibly kind. And. And tell our audience what the name of your Podcast is.

It's called on your terms with Aaron King.

And you've had incredible guests on there. And I highly recommend everybody check it out on iTunes. Apple, YouTube, everywhere, everywhere, everywhere. Podcasts can be found. All right, well, let's. Let's tug on the reins of this horse here and nudge us. We're going to turn us towards the barn and start heading in. I've got a curve ball, and then I've got a fastball straight down the middle for you. But before we do, tell everybody all the places that you would like them to go to learn more about you and your work.

I only play on one social media platform. I'm on the gram.

Okay.

I don't do the TikTok. I don't do the Facebook. I don't do the YouTube. I don't just do the Instagram. So come play with me there. We have a lot of fun. We have a lot of really cool guests, a lot of really interesting books that we feature on there. Experts, relationships, and it's really all about managing your energy more like you manage your time or your money, right? So if you're feeling like you're challenged with your energy, your peak performance, feeling a little stuck, hop over and hopefully we can help get you unstuck.

Okay, here's the curveball. Gun to your head, something you care deeply about. At risk. Your boat sinking in the harbor off California. There. You have to start a business in the next 30 days. Is that bad?

Words have power, Jeff. I'm an energy person. Words have power, man.

Sorry.

Let's not put that out in the universe.

Hey, look, we've already done a lot to further disparage the reputation of crabs on this show. Who knew, right? I mean, crabs, they get. They have the worst rap out there. You know, you're crabby, you're a crab. Stop being a crab. And now they're. Now they're killing you.

Now they're murderers as well. So.

Yeah, okay, you're forced to start a new business in the next 30 days that you are not currently in. And this is a question that speaks to your view of the marketplace from where you sit. You have to start a business. You've got to do it. Next 30 days. It's not something you're currently doing. What business would you start?

Passion project or profit project?

It doesn't matter.

Profit project, hands down, would be a blue collar business. I would be doing plumbing, electrician. Electricians, Any kind of blue collar legacy company. That will be the last industry that AI can figure out. Only because of the complexity around decision making, adaptability, intuitive decisions, you can't program for infinite outcomes in these situations with electricity, plumbing, H vac, all. Anything in that realm would be my profitable decision. Passion project would be mental health for kids. Navigating the, the world of digital as a child and understanding. I mean, you and I were fortunate to grow up half our lives not online, and we still struggle with the scroll and the comparison, but we at least had a baseline of just getting to live our lives and be kids and be free and not have that constant FOMO and that constant drain. And I just think, you know, if I had a passion project, I would love to make it a law that kids cannot have phones until they're 18. If they can't vote, if they can't go to war, they shouldn't be able to have. So I would say wait till they're 18 to have phones. Let them have a childhood, let them breathe, let them learn, let them create, let them be bored. Let them build those neural pathways to creativity and invention and curiosity and just give them space to be like we were allowed. That would be my biggest passion project.

It would be safer, healthier and happier. And if you asked me the same question, my answers would almost be the same as yours. That's interesting.

Oh, yeah, I was going to ask you what we said.

Well, I'm in the home service business.

Oh, yeah, right, of course. Duh. Oh, my gosh, I didn't even think about that.

Yeah, we're building fences, putting cabinets in, we're doing all that kind of stuff every single day. And then I also have a heart for children. We build reading rooms with Carson Scholars Fund across the country, so. Oh, that's fantastic. Yeah, it's really. If you go to my Instagram and there's a little four minute video there of a reading room that we built in Charlotte just this spring. So I'm sitting, I'm doing crowd work with a bunch of five year olds.

Hey, that's the toughest audience.

Yeah, they didn't get it.

If you can hold their attention, you can hold any, anyone's attention.

Oh, it wasn't great, but anyway. Great. All right, here we go. Fastball straight down the middle. You have one sentence to make an impact in somebody's life. What is it?

Have an attitude of gratitude.

Fair enough. Anything to add?

Have an attitude of gratitude. If you, if you're feeling. If you're feeling lost, if you're feeling stuck, if you're feeling low, if you're feeling depressed. Depressed. The fastest path to power is to, is to stop and find something. And don't just say I'm grateful for you have to have that radical gratitude emotion. It's the, the flutter in your heart, it's the chill bumps on your arms, it's the little shiver. It's that moment where you feel truly thankful for whatever you can find around you. It can be something as simple as you woke up this morning, you know, like that you're on this side of the earth, right? Or you know, just anything. I mean, the antidote to all this heaviness is to be grateful. And then the secondarily, you know, when you are feeling like the world's not okay and it's heavy and we can't. You can't deal. The fastest path to re energizing your battery is what you're doing to serve. Go help someone. Help one person. Ask how someone else is doing. Flip that script. It's the fastest way to recharge your battery is to pour into somebody else. So be grateful. Help others. Try to be a good human. And yeah, I would say the next thing would be to invest in one of these franchises that you have, which I think I need to do because I'm on your Instagram now and I'm like, maybe we need to buy one of these franchises from you guys.

There you go. We have a wonderful group of high net worth sophisticated business builders and homefront brands. We're so blessed and fortunate with our franchise owners that we get to work with every day. Aaron King, you're amazing. This has been great. This is probably the first podcast I'm going to go back and listen to because I want to hear again what you said. Said.

Well, thanks for having me, Jeff. Appreciate you. Appreciate your heart. And next time we're on the east side Charlotte area, we'll give you a shout, maybe get a cup of coffee or some steps or something, get to know you even better.

That would be great. We'd love to do that. I'm Jeff Duden. We've been here with Aaron King on the unemployable podcast. Thanks for listening.