This YouTube conversation between Luke Storey and Ben Greenfield examines the limits of purely physical optimization (fitness, supplements, gadgets) and argues many people pursue these to fill a deeper "God-shaped hole." They reference C.S. Lewis, Augustine, Pascal and David Hawkins to frame a universal yearning for connection to God or a higher Self. The speakers share personal stories (Storey on early-life trauma and substance use; Greenfield on substance/pleasure examples) and discuss how addictive patterns or unhealthy attachments to pleasures (drugs, cars, supplements, even retreats) can be attempts to fill that spiritual void. They recommend cultivating spiritual disciplines and detachment (ability to abstain 3–5 days) as part of true spiritual fitness.
Chapters
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Well, you know, you kind of alluded to it in that you're writing a book about spirituality. And I think for people like you and, and me, to some degree, people get caught up in kind of the low hanging fruit of, of if I just get healthy enough, fit enough, have good enough sleep, lose that weight, find the newest biohack, the newest supplement, the newest gadget, then I'll feel this sense of completion and wholeness. And it's like I go to these health conferences sometimes and I look at the crowd and I think, what's the why? Here is the why. So you're fit, then what? So you optimize your brain function, then what? There's then what, then what? What's the end goal? And ultimately the goal is, I think for most people a feeling of purpose and a feeling of or.
So you're 160 now?
Yeah.
Then what? Yeah, so you're 160, you made it and you're still miserable than other people. You hacked that. Then what? And.
The way that C.S. lewis described this was a God shaped hole, an abyss deep down inside each of us that no matter how many fancy cars and how many bank accounts and how many houses and how many attractive partners and how many noble and laudable things like children or good relationships that we pour into that hole, it will never be full and it will never feel fulfilling because it's a God shaped hole. And deep down inside of every one of us there is a yearning for something bigger that goes beyond us. And I think that that is a relationship with Creator God. Augustine wrote about this. He also described it as something like a hole, something like an abyss. He actually called it a never ending yearning that would not go away until the day that you die. And if you recognize that. And Blaise Pascal, a long time ago in the 1600s, he wrote a book called called Penses. It's actually a collection of writings that are largely, they're kind of a defense of the Christian doctrines. But he has a lot of wise sayings in there and I don't have the quote memorized, but you could find it if you were to Google Blaise Pascal. Penses P E N S E E S.
God shaped hole. You'd probably find something like that. And he noted the same thing. People are searching, people are striving. People get to the end of their lives and still feel as though they, they never reached that peak of fulfillment, never filled that hole. And the people who actually do, the people who actually find that vibratory frequency that David Hawkins would refer to as peace or even enlightenment are the people who have discovered that that hole can be filled by a deep spiritual connectedness to God and a practice of the spiritual disciplines just as much as the physical disciplines or the mental disciplines. Caring for one's soul just as much as one would care for one's bank account or fitness. And really, I think that that is the key, that it is a God shaped hole that will never be filled until you figure out a path to God to fill it.
Yeah, well said. I know in my own experience it's been.
You know, early in life due to.
Childhood experiences that were traumatic and painful that.
Caused a further separation from that relationship with God, even though I wasn't conscious of it. I think that all babies are born connected, right. And then we have experiences, I mean, even circumcision and traumas that happen at birth. I was put in an incubator.
Seriously, birth is fun. You get slapped in the face, part of your penis cut off, and then the, your, your lifeblood cord tied off and tied a knot.
Yeah.
And you know, and then a tit shoved in your face.
Yeah.
One of the, one of those things.
Is okay, if you're lucky.
Yeah.
I was thrown in an incubator for the first week of my life and cut off from all human contact. You know, it seems like, oh, poor me. But looking back at different patterns that have manifested in my life, there was a real disconnection there. And then things that happened that shouldn't happen to kids happened. And my refuge from that was seeking some kind of connection. And I was able to find a facsimile of a connection to myself through drug abuse. And started that when I was really young. And people like me in recovery that have made it out the other side of that know, or at least at some point we'll learn that we were trying to fill that God shaped hole with that feeling of being satiated or.
Soothed, self soothed by changing our chemistry. And then you, at least I, I won't project on any other former addicts and alcoholics listening, but.
If you're so lucky, you don't end up in prison or a cemetery.
You realize, oh shit. What was missing was this relationship with God. And then there's a lot of missteps. Typically in trying to fulfill that with the partner, the supplement, the job, the money, when in fact losing the weight, gaining the weight, all of the things that are, you're still like, you might not be doing something so self destructive in that escapist way. But you're still looking for something that seems to be elusive. And it's that connection to one's true or higher self, which is at one consciousness speaking with God. It's like the God within you kind of gets lost in the chase after that feeling of.
Existential loneliness or separation.
Right. And I don't mean to vilify nice cars, a great wonderful family, a lot of money in your bank account.
Drugs, supplements, gyms, gold spandex, leotards and bench pressing, whatever it is that you derive joy from. Different people are wired up in different ways. But like we were discussing in the kitchen before we came in here and I was telling you, I recently had this Dr. John Laurence on my show and he sent me up some of his Zen spray, this nicotine based hoppe extract from the Amazon. I just took a couple sprays up my nose. It kind of clears the head after you do your blow out all the snot it induces.
It can be addictive. As we were discussing. Nicotine can be addictive. Ayahuasca retreats can become an escape rather than a connection to yourself or to God.
Cars can become something that you define yourself as being attached to rather than a passing pleasure in life. And even when we were in the kitchen, I mentioned this. As Anthony d' Mello says in his book Awareness, we should be able to look at all of these things, all of these things that surround us in creation, whether things that humans made in God's image have created, or whether God has created, whether a plant extract of psilocybin or LSD produced in a laboratory, whether a fancy Ferrari or a big oak tree providing shade in the backyard. We should be able to look at each of these things and recognize them as pleasures, things that cause this dopaminergic response. It's built into us. It's a fantastic response. Right. And you and I were talking briefly about this. We call it addiction in many cases when we like to do something repeatedly over and over again. But honestly, human beings, from a biochemical standpoint, were created to take a great deal of pleasure in many things that we come back to over and over again for another hit of pleasure, right? Coffee, exercise, nicotine, sex, you name it. And that doesn't mean that the thing that produces dopamine is bad. That doesn't mean coming back to it repeatedly is an addiction, or at least should not be vilified if it is an addiction. But you should be able to take anything in your life that you're throwing into that God shaped hole and say you are again, as Anthony d' Mello would say, you are something I derive pleasure from, but I am not attached to you. I do not depend upon you for my happiness. If you can't say that to all of these fancy tools and toys and gadgets and supplements and drugs and medicines that surround you, or any of them, or there's a certain one that you can't say that to without cringing or feeling a little pit in your stomach, then that is a sign that you do have an unhealthy attachment, that you do have potential for an addiction to something. And, you know, I just like to paint it in the I'm going camping now with my backpack scenario. You know, you should be able to just go off and camp for three to five days without any of these things in sight, extract yourself from them and not feel as though you're supremely unhappy because they no longer exist in your life temporarily. And you would be surprised. We were talking about this with nicotine, how sometimes it's not the fact that you're severely addicted to a substance as much as the fact that because it's constantly around you, it's a cue to partake in it. And I've found that if I simply remove myself from an environment where I might have access to something like food or a kettlebell or caffeine or whatnot, and it's no longer around, it's not that hard to become detached.
