Best Breathing App Anyone Can Use To Auto-Regulate Emotions & Nervous System With Robbie Bent

My name is Ben Greenfield, and on this episode of the Ben Greenfield Life.

Podcast, I've seen thousands of people that come for one of these breathwork concerts. And we start off blindfolded with movement and person's first time, they're kind of moving a bit in their mind. It's, I look silly. Even though they're blindfolded, what are people gonna think? And then, you know, comes time to scream and it's like.

You know, five weeks later, after five sessions, it's like, yeah, of course I'm gonna. When do in my life do I scream? You know, like we're meant to let it out. And it's like, when was the last time you just walked in your backyard and ripped a scream? And so I think guiding people to feel okay expressing themselves is so powerful.

Faith, family, fitness, health, performance, nutrition, longevity, ancestral living, biohacking, and a whole lot more. Welcome to the show.

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And you're going to get an exclusive discount on your first order when you use my code Ben on your qualifying order. Well, well, well, folks. No surprises here. It seems everybody's talking about breathwork a lot. You probably know you should be doing it to, for example, stay alive. But there's a lot of other benefits to the inspiratory and expiratory process. That again, I'm sure that you've heard a lot of people talking about all these new breathwork apps and breathwork systems and ways you're supposed to breathe before you get into, I don't know, like cold water or go to sleep or meditate. And it can be kind of dizzying, I guess in this case literally and figuratively to know how it is that you're actually supposed to piece together all this advice out there on breath work. And especially when it comes to apps, there's a dizzying variety of breathwork apps out there. I've experimented with dozens and dozens of them just because I'm kind of obsessed with ways to enhance my own physiology via in my breath. And you may have heard me talking before in the past about this one. That's probably my creme de la creme, my top app that I use along with my sons and friends when they come visit my house for breathwork. As a matter of fact, a whole bunch of members of the Ben Greenfield Life team use this and we even did a Morning session every day during our recent team retreat. So this is an app, it's called Othership and It's got basically 500 plus different breathwork sessions in it. Anywhere from two minutes to over an hour in length, like the super short pick me up stuff to like 50 to 70 ish minute Holotropic style trippy breathwork sessions. But they've got instructors that walk you through everything. They've got really good music, they've got some special beats in there that kind of help shift your brainwave state if you wear headphones. And the thing just fricking works. So I've been using it long enough to where I actually wanted to kind of get an insider glimpse of not just Breathwork in general, but also this app, how it works and some of the other very, very interesting things when it comes to like breathwork concerts and breathwork saunas and how to pair sauna and ice bath with breathwork, and then a lot of the things that you should know about when it comes to hacks for breathwork, supplements for breathwork, et cetera. So my friend Robbie Bent reached out to me. It was last year sometime when he was in the process of actually creating Othership along with some kind of brick and mortar facilities that you consider to be almost like Breathwork gy. And we've been going back and forth for a while, especially once I started using the app. He even published an article on my website about ways to incorporate Breathwork into your life. But today I've got Robby on the show and Robbie actually has a history that goes far beyond Breathwork. He has been a GP at Vine Ventures, which is a psychedelic medicine venture fund committed to giving a whole bunch of money to research and charitable causes. He did a lot of work in crypto. He was an early employee at the Ethereum Foundation. Just a super interesting gu, Robby. I've laid down the foundation. Now you just got to live up to it.

That's great, man. I'm super excited to be here. It's really a dream. I was mentioning earlier, about three years ago, I was doing this practice where I would record a voice note in my own voice of stuff I want to happen. And then I would listen to it after every meditation. And in that meditation, in that note, it was, hey, I want to become friends with Ben Greenfield and get him to use my product and, you know, be a fan of what we're doing and like be inspired by it. And, you know, I'll talk a bit about why we built this, but to do that every day and then come on your show. You know, your show was where I actually learned about ice bath saunas at Life. My wife at the time shared it with me and it actually became our first date was an ice bath and sauna. And she said, hey, like, you want to go try this thing? And so listening to you in those early days kind of led to my interest in a lot of this stuff. And since it's really like, you know, I just want to start off and say, hey, this is kind of a dream for me and really exciting to be on with you. Having listened to that voice note every day. For people listening, it's like, oh, maybe this manifestation stuff actually works.

Yeah, well, kudos for making your first date ice bath and a sauna. Apparently worked out because you guys don't you guys have a kid now?

We do. We just had a baby last month, so we're about five weeks in. Yeah. That's a whole.

Other story about nervous system regulation.

Yes, it is. And then of course, that begs the question whether or not you're going to have a baby breathwork session, or I suppose a baby breath work session, or as I learned when my wife and I did our home birth attempt when my sons were born 14 years ago, the whole breathwork routine for leading up to giving birth or during the process of birth. Do you remember what they call this? It's like a Lamaze breathing or something like that.

Lamaze breathing. Very, very similar to what you're trained to do in the ice bath. Long, slow exhales moving into the parasympathetic state.

Yeah. Cool. I'm just curious, before we kind of dive into other ship and everything you guys are doing over there, do you have a long history of having used breathwork with your own career in crypto or anywhere else?

Yeah, I think for me it's personal. I really suffered with nervous system dysregulation. And so the reality is, in today's society, you know, 90 plus percent of people, their nervous systems are fucked. We have chronic fatigue, overstimulation, fight, or flight all the time. You know, I could ask people a series of questions like, when was the last time you were bored? How are you feeling today, really? And was there space to even know? And like, do you always feel tired and overwhelmed? And for many people, the answer to all of those is, yeah, I'm always. I get up, I start my task list, I drink my coffee, I'm on my computer, my phone all day. I'm on social media, I'm sedentary. And so as a result, like, you talk about this all the time, but we're not meant to live like that. And if we're in overstimulated fight or flight states all the time, we're not in the rest and digest nervous system state, which is where we find meaning. Emotion, love, all these amazing feelings.

And I don't mean to play devil's advocate, of course you want to have some amount of cell danger syndrome turned on because if not, you'd be the person who'd get whatever, bitten by a snake or eaten by a lion whenever danger popped up because you would just basically be bending down and smelling the roses and everything would be unicorns and butterflies. But yeah, we tap into that sympathetic state so much now to the extent to where I mean literally when I say, like cell danger syndrome, there's entire books written about how the cells are just spinning in this stress state that limits everything from like metabolism to removal of metabolic waste to cellular turnover. So, yeah, it's kind of like that mild hormetic edge that stress gives you is now all of a sudden, you know, blown out of control with the dial turned up all the time.

Yeah. As a result, what are you missing out on? Right. And it's. If you're not careful or pragmatic or planning, you're missing out on laughter and eye gazing and these amazing emotions and feelings of love that come from. It's hard to be in both states at once. And so if you're kind of a workaholic and you're listening, for me, I had a company that ended up failing. So total fight or flight every day, worried about survival, money, occupation, felt I was a failure. When the company failed, I lost ton, like, you know, pretty much everything I had. I had to move back in with my parents and to deal with that stress. I didn't know about any of these tools. And so I went to drugs and alcohol. And so it would be, you know, Thursday, Friday night after work, like, try to forget, try to escape, try to numb out from the stress and not feel it. And so I really hit rock bottom. A point of, you know, I feel like a total failure. I don't know what I'm going to do in life. And it was in that point I started to find new techniques to learn to master my nervous system state. And breathwork was the number one most impactful. Yeah.

And so when it comes to the idea of breathwork for you, were you just using apps? Were you watching Wim Hof and his underwear videos or what was it that you were relying on as your main kind of source of education with breathwork at that point.

Yeah, so I started. There wasn't much and I started actually with ice bath and saunas. And so I had mentioned we went on my first date with my wife and I was in the ice bath. And as somebody who loves stimulation and struggled with drugs, it's incredible boost, a healthy boost of norepinephrine and dopamine, so you feel instantly alive. So I was doing that every week. Like, what is happening? This is crazy. I'm driving 40 minutes to, you know, a Russian style bathhouse outside of the city, you know, twice a week and doing this socially and why am I feeling so good? And so I started listening to podcasts with Wim Hof. I did his training and when I was at the training, he, you know, prepped with the breathwork and then I looked up some more and he had a few podcasts on, you know, on YouTube where he would guide these 30 minute breathworks. And I listened to the same episode, you know, almost 300 days in a row every morning as a coffee enhancer. As part of my morning routine, I would start with this 10, 15, 20 minute Wim Hof style breathing with coffee to boost my state. And so it was like every time I did that, I would really turn on and I felt the first time these just feelings of inspiration, creativity, energy. And that's that, like we said, pushing the gas pedal on the nervous system in the morning.

Yeah. And so the length of time that you were doing something like that, were you kind of like a short to five minute guy was like 15, 20 minutes or for somebody who was just getting started like that, what works for you?

Yeah, I'd say the ideal. And if you're really interested in this as a beginner, in the app, there's a section just titled up. And all we mean by app is think of it as the rocket launch, the gas pedal, the energy booster, the focus enhancer. And so for me in the morning it was about 10 minutes. And in that 10 minutes it would be around three rounds of tummo Wim Hof cyclical breathing. And in the holds we'd have some gratitude practice. And so it was combining kind of making. I was always doing these long morning routines. And so it was like, well, how do we make the morning routine as fast and effective as possible? 10 minutes. And so the idea is you can pop in headphones, play this, do this every morning, and then have a coffee and you're, you're sort of good to go.

Yeah, it's kind of shocking. Like, I think a lot of people feel like you gotta take a big chunk of time and have that available for breath work. But you, you can wake up and at some point during your morning stretch routine, even do like two minutes. And that alone, you feel that physiological shift, that acid alkaline balancing, that slight breath hunger, that slight air hunger. And it really does not take long. And then the problem is that it becomes addictive and you're like, man, two minutes felt good. I got to go four. And then eventually four becomes eight. And before long you're spending 20 minutes every morning, but yet it really doesn't take that long. And that's, I think, what surprises a lot of people who feel like it's yet another thing they have to add in is it doesn't take that long. And sometimes I chuckle when I look at your app, for example, and I see that there's two minute sessions on there. But at the same time, you actually can, during a pomodoro break from work or right in the morning as the coffee is boiling, squeeze it in. And so you're right, it doesn't have to be super long. And I wanted to actually ask you some questions about othership, particularly though, because there's some stuff that's going on when I'm using that app that just seems to be a little bit different than others that I've used. And so my first question is, when it comes to headphones versus no headphones, is there anything going on with the actual science in the audio that would require headphones? And if so, what would that be?

There are a couple tracks in the down section that utilize binaural beats. Okay, so those binaural beats when using headphones can help. I mean, the science is questionable around binaural beats in general, but the idea is that these certain frequencies can help entrain your brain into a parasympathetic state. So when using headphones with those particular sessions, there's one called intercom, and there's beats played at slightly different frequencies into each ear. And as a result, it's helping to entrain your brainwaves into theta or delta or alpha or beta state. So for relaxation, the idea is you're combining slow breathing, right? So when you're slowing your breath, you're reducing your heart rate. So generally, the slower, longer exhales and slow breath retentions in a period of two to three minutes can shift you into that rest and digest.

Break nervous system state. And then the binaural beats on Top help to as well move you into that state of gentle relaxation and focus.

But the lion's share of the sessions, I don't need headphones for.

Right? Yeah, exactly. It's more a matter of like, hey, where does this sound better for you? And if you have an amazing sound system. You know, when we do group sessions, you mentioned breathwork concerts. They're on massive speakers, and that's sort of my favorite. If I'm alone at home, I'll use headphones for down sessions. But there's not. If you're not using headphones, it's not a big deal. I think I would just optimize for where it sounds best.

Okay, got it. Yeah, I actually like to play on the surround sound in the sauna. That's where my sons and I do most of our breath work. Like when we first started using your app, we were doing. We went through a gong where we did like 30 days in a row. And then we shifted to three times a week. We were doing like a 12 to 15 minute session. And then twice a month, we did the big hour long ones. And I mean, my sons were troopers. We would literally jack up the sauna to full intensity and then start those big long hour sessions where you're pretty much like tripping by the end. I mean, your body's just on a totally different planet. You're covered in sweat. And then. And mom would always chuckle because we'd come upstairs to dinner after we hit the cold tub, and halfway through dinner, we'd all be basically ready to crawl into bed, just totally exhausted from this really intensive breathwork session. But the audio does work really well when you play it surround sound like that, which is cool. Now the next thing is that you have all of these voices, these different personalities, these people that guide you through the session. Sometimes more than one voice. Who are these people? Like all these folks who are actually submitting breathwork to the app?

The majority, kind of 40 to 50%, are my co founders, Harry and Amanda. Harry and Amanda are two of my best friends. And othership actually started as a physical space. So it started as an ice bath in the backyard from that place we were doing. It was just open. It was an open backyard in the middle of Toronto where anyone could come and use the this ice bath. It was a WhatsApp group where people would join. And every night, people from the neighborhood would come in. Some strangers, some new people, some return people, and there would be an ice bath class with a fire pit. And then as that became super successful, winter hit and so we built a garage space with a sauna, ice bath and tea room. And in that space, we started to teach people breathwork as part of the programming. And so Harry and Amanda are world leading a thing called Asana Master, which we actually don't have in North America. There's a technique in Europe called Aufgus, and it involves towel waving essential oils.

What'd you call it?

Yeah. A U F G U S S Auf Gus.

Okay.

And there's actually championships in Europe where it's mastering the art of sauna performance. And so imagine sort of like figure skating where you're in the sauna, the sauna fits 300 people, the sauna master is dancing, waving the towel, putting different essential oils on the stove, commanding the space. And so Harry and Amanda lived in Europe and were trained sauna masters. And as part of that route, they also learned about breathwork. And so our idea, our goal was really to bring these techniques that help help you master your nervous system in a way that's accessible and fun and community driven. So it's breathwork, yes, but it's also these other techniques. And so, you know, what's different about our breath work is the amount of emotion that's included. So as you know, there's, you know, couple sessions, there's anger releases, there's guilt releases, there's self love. And so woven into the breathwork sessions are NLP and hypnosis and different visualizations. And so we actually work with five to 10 therapists to script, write each session and then a number. Most of the people who do the voice work are just people who are interested in Toronto, in our community, and then have reached out and say, like, hey, I want to help you guys. I would love to come in the studio and help out and do some research. And so we'll just go to, you know, our customers and say, hey, what do you guys want? Someone will say, oh, I'm struggling with anger. Can you make one on anger? And we'll, we'll work with a therapist to write a script on releasing anger, and then we'll put it to breathwork. And Harry and a sound engineer will actually work through the studio and try to make every single one like a piece of art. You know, it'll produce the breath in the back and the heartbeats and the sound to make it exactly at that point of, you know, vocalizing or on the whole. So it's like synced perfectly.

That's what really I think is one of the game changers is the music pairs to the rhythm of the breath and the long exhales and the long inhales in this really unique way. And again, even when you're doing the long exhale, sometimes it'll just, the drum beat will disappear and it'll just kind of feel like you're shifted in this interstellar space. And then the breathwork picks back up and the beats start again.

Yeah, I think that's what's really cool, is we're not a team of business people that had this idea. We're all hardcore breathwork users and we make the content ourselves. And so it's not like we had an idea to make an app and went out and hired some people. Like we make it ourselves because that's what we do. And so for me, when I was struggling in this low point, I didn't want to be around alcohol. So Harry, Amanda, my other partner, my wife, who's a co founder, my other best friend Miles. There's five of us, it's just like a family kind of company. And, and we would have these breathwork parties where 10 people would come over and instead of drinking alcohol, we would do a 60 minute, 90 minute roller coaster. Electronic music breathwork where it felt like you're at a concert, you have a total stage shift and then you would share. And I was like, well, that's amazing. Friday night.

It's actually a cool way to start. I have dinner parties at my house, especially during the winter. We kick them off like we'll have dinner at 7 and I'll tell folks, well, you show up at 6 and any of you who want to join for the sauna, and usually it's just like a bunch of the guys will go down to the sauna and the girls seem to want to sit upstairs and drink some wine and chat. Not to stereotype, but that just seems to be the way things tend to progress. And we'll do one of these breathwork sessions literally as like some people sit around the living room and whatever, smoke a cigar, have a beer or whatever. We'll go down in the sauna and just do like a 20 to 30 minute breath work session and burn some incense and some essential oil and then traipse out to the cold pool and come in for dinner and oh my gosh, those are the best dinner parties ever.

Yeah, just like you need if you're sober. Like everybody wants to connect, right? So you're going out to this dinner and you want to share and you want to connect, but it's, there's like a barrier sometimes of anxiety Discomfort, social anxiety. It just takes a little bit to get going. So people use one glass of wine, two glasses of wine. So what if there was another way to make you feel comfortable and alive, you know, but it was healthy. Yeah. And so that's, that's the ice bath, the sauna, breathwork. These things are like the make you a superpower in connecting socially, getting over social anxiety. But then, you know, you have an amazing sleep score the next day and you feel incredible. So it's like they're. This is the future of socializing, in my opinion, is healthy ways to connect.

Yeah, yeah. And I know you have all sorts of different breathing styles that you guys kind of like, like mix and match as you go through. Like there's elements of box breathing and diaphragmatic breathing and Wim Hof and alternate nostril and 4, 7, 8 and Kundalini. And a lot of times you'll be going through a session and realize by the time it's finished you've done six different forms of breath work. But they're categorized. If you open up the app, they're categorized. There's up, which you mentioned earlier, which is kind of the big energizing ones. Then there's down, which are really great for sleep or lulling yourself off to sleep or getting to sleep when you've woken up in the night and need to get back to sleep. And then there's these all around ones that are just kind of all over the place. And then there's another one called Body, and that one's kind of interesting because the first couple times I did it, I wasn't really ready. But you're kind of like massaging different parts of your body and sometimes moving and dancing and doing self inflicted somatic therapy. Tell me a little bit more about the body section because I think that one's kind of interesting.

Yeah, there's two sections that are sort of really different from any other app. And so one is all around what you mentioned. And that's meant to be therapy, like sessions at an affordable price point. And they're all around emotions. And so it might be anger release or guilt release or self love. And so it's combining breathwork with like NLP and different therapy techniques. So when you're in that state, you know, and why people use that is if you're struggling. So, you know, anytime, even like you mentioned, we do a deep dive like once a month or twice a month, you're kind of getting rid of the emotional buildup that's related to life. So you're switching jobs, moving houses, struggling with overwhelm, having a fight with your partner, all of those things. Angry with a coworker, you can just process those emotions and let them go instantly. So that's really different. And then the other is body, which is this. There's tons of new research around somatic work. And that's just simply the idea that we store emotions in our body. And so an interesting example that people talk about, there's this Dr. Peter Levine, and he references animals. And so if you see a gazelle attacked in the wild, it'll escape and it'll lay on the ground and shake because their nervous system is turned on. Animals will shake out and process the emotions and the energy from that nervous system explosion. It's the same thing happens to us. We turn on our nervous system, we're angry at work. How did that person say that to us? You know, angry with our partner, boom. You feel that fight or flight turns on, but we don't have a good mechanism to process it. So what is believed to happen in the science is that we store those emotions in our body. And so there's this forms of somatic therapy, shaking, gentle movement and stretching, cold plunges, sauna, all these different things that turn off exercise is actually a form of this as well. And so you're turning off yoga is another one. You're turning off the thinking mind. The part that's just like, I've got these 10 tasks, this and that, I'm not a good person, I'm an imposter. All these crazy thoughts you have and you're getting into your body and so teaching people to just gently stretch and shake out emotions, it's really powerful. So in that section there's like wild shaking, there's yelling, so vocalizations which are great because we are told, you know, you're in high school and kids are like, oh, don't speak up, don't be different, we're going to make fun of you. And you're kind of told not to be loud and not to share your emotions. In our society, right, we develop almost.

Like these closed off throat chakras. My wife had to struggle a lot with that just due to some educational and learning difficulties. And she still does have to work on throat chakra and chanting and singing and oming is something I've really focused on with my sons. And we do some of those sessions and it's been interesting to see them progress over the past couple of years to be able to really, if those long inhales Just do a full on from the heart, like an om or anything else that the app is calling for. So yeah, I think a lot of people neglect that component, like the vocal toning component.

There's tons of science around it also for moving into the parasympathetic, for releasing and just even think about it. Like we're just taught to fit in. And so I see I've seen thousands of people that come for one of these breathwork concerts and we start off blindfolded with movement and person's first time, they're kind of moving a bit in their mind. It's I look silly. Even though they're blindfolded, what are people gonna think? And then, you know, comes time to scream and it's like, like.

Five weeks later, after five sessions, it's like, yeah, of course I'm gonna. When do in my life do I scream? You know, like we're meant to let it out. And it's like, when was the last time you just walked in your backyard and ripped a scream? And so I think guiding people to feel okay, expressing themselves is so powerful. So that's sort of what the body section is about.

Yeah, yeah. And then the other one that's super interesting is the couples. And this is a discussion that if you're listening at, you might have to turn it down a little bit if you're driving with the kids in the minivan. But with the couple sessions, my wife and I have used those for lovemaking and for foreplay and they're not short. I think what's the shortest couple session I think is a half hour long. Right?

Yeah, there's two. There's a couple's energy and there's a love bond that are quite strong. But even I'm so glad you brought this up. And you're actually the one who suggested this and we finally got on it. So this February we're going to be releasing an intimacy challenge 14 days. And it will be from beginner to advanced, with beginner being, you know, breathwork and eye gazing. Then it might be breathwork and loving kindness meditation all the way to, you know, naked breathwork and self pleasure, breathwork and massage. And so we're kind of going to push the envelope here and again, be a lot different than other apps and have guided sexual intimacy exercises together. I think that's something like, wow, okay, well, if I, you know, instead of going on a date, if I can play this and just follow along to the instructions with awesome music and have this amazing connection that's really different. Too. And somewhere where I'm glad you kind of pushed us to look at because we're working with three or four of the best sex and relationship counselors in the U.S. so super, super excited to launch that in a couple months.

Hey, let's talk electrolytes. We've established the fact that I am super into salts. I salt a ton. And one of the reasons for that is when I used to race Ironman triathlon, we had an exercise physiologist from Gatorade come up and test our whole team. I raced for Team Timex and it turns out that I had an enormous amount of sweat sodium, three times the average amount. I began to use a lot of salt, around 6 grams a day, along with a host of other electrolytes like full spectrum electrolytes. And immediately performance got better, recovery got better. I would go to sleep at night and not feel my blood pounding in my ears, which I'd grown so accustomed to and that I thought was normal. And I am still super into electrolytes, but I want them to taste good. I want to be free of sugar and artificial ingredients and coloring. I don't want to. Well, let's cut straight to the chase. Gatorade or any of these other multicolored basically sugar bottles that you can buy that are just chock full of all sorts of crap. So I think one of the best electrolytes formulas out there is one that is low carb. Paleo keto fits into whole food diets. Good for fasting, good for athletes, good for a wide variety of health conditions. Designed by a trusted friend of mine whose name is Rob Wolf. Designed with a host of science on the actual ratios behind things like the sodium, the magnesium, the potassium, the calcium, et cetera, and used by a wide variety of special forces, tech leaders, professional athletes, you name it, it's called Element. Whether your mom or an exercise enthusiast or a big sweater or a sauna lover, or you want a dynamite no sugar margarita with their citrus salt flavor. Yes, it's good. Then you need Element. You'll get a free gift from Element if you go and order some with my link. And your body is going to thank you big time because this stuff tastes good and is good for you and solves the electrolyte equation, stops it in its tracks when it comes to anything related to an electrolyte deficiency or imbalance. Let's go to drinklmnt.com BenGreenfield DrinkLmnt.com BenGreenfield get you a free gift with your purchase drinklmnt.com BenGenfield I'm pretty stoked because this is now something I can do when I'm on the go. And it's based on this idea that the human body being mostly water, but what you probably don't know is everything else in your body is 50% amino acids. That means basically water and amino acids are two of the most important things that you can have in your body. And some amino acids are essential. You have to get them from food, from breaking down steak and chicken and eggs and everything else. But this stuff called kion aminos is a a plant based full essential amino acids profile backed by over 20 years of clinical research with the highest quality ingredients, no fillers, no junk, rigorous quality testing, tastes amazing with all natural flavors. I got on the amino acids bandwagon way back when I was racing Ironman triathlon. Started with branched chain amino acids, realized those were a waste of time, switched over to essential amino acids and it has been been a game changer ever since. Now what did I mean when I said travel? Well these kion aminos which are the essential amino acids that I take, they have for the watermelon flavor, the lemon lime flavor, the berry flavor and the mango flavor. They got stick packs now so you can take them on the go anywhere. I honestly have like a couple packs in my fanny pack now.

I can dump them in water when.

I'm at a restaurant, have that instead of like a bread, a basket that comes out or a cocktail. They satiate the appetite, they accelerate recovery, they're amazing pre workout or during a workout. The list goes on and on. Fact is, if you haven't tried essential amino acids, you're missing out. And you can save 20% now on any monthly deliveries and 10% on any one time purchases. If you go to getkion.com Ben that's getk I-O-N.com Ben to get my fundamental supplement for fitness, Kion Aminos. GetK-I-O-N.com.

This is it. This is a big announcement. I'm thinking you're going to really dig this. It's something I've been working on for the past three years. Probably one of the biggest and most exhausting projects I've ever done in my life. I've been asked for a long time to write a book on family and parenting and legacy and raising. Healthy and resilient and free thinking and impactful children. I've never felt very qualified to be able to write that kind of book because my sons are are just 14 and who's to say they're not going to wind up in prison. But I know a lot of parents with incredibly impactful children. Entrepreneurs, billionaires, single moms and dads, divorced parents, pastors, my parents, education experts, legacy builders, wealth management experts. Just people who have really decoded life. Legacy, discipline, education, everything that goes into kind of like the blueprint for raising a tiny little superhuman. So what I did was kind of in the style of like Tools of Titans or Tribe of Mentors by Tim Ferriss, if you're familiar with that. I basically interviewed over 30 sets of amazing, amazing parents and I gathered all their knowledge, all their wisdom, all their little tips and tricks and insider strategies and tools and resources, and I put them all together in a book. I don't know if you read my book Boundless, but this is like what Boundless was for biohacking. This is that for parenting. It's actually called Boundless Parenting. It is well over 650 pages long. It is a tome. It is everything a new parent or existing parent or teacher or grandparent or anyone else who interacts with children would ever need to know. With interviews and tips from the best of the best parents on the face of the planet. It's called Boundless Tools, Tactics and Habits of Great Parents. Boundless Tools, Tactics and Habits of Great Parents. It's available now for pre orders. It's all@boundlessparentingbook.com I guess there's not a whole lot for me to say other than that. If you go to BoundlessParentingBook.com you can sign up there, you can get on the pre order list. We're giving away a bunch of bonuses to the first handful of people who get on that preorder list. So pre orders are open. Yeah. Now, if you're hearing this BoundlessParentingBook.com I am so blessed and I'm so grateful and I'm so freaking excited about this project. You have no idea. I'm just like beaming from ear to ear right now. So if you can help me share the word about this book, gosh, I would be super grateful if you want to pick one up for yourself or copies for friends, again, I'd be super grateful. I think that we can change a lot of people's lives, a lot of children's lives, develop legacies that will last for generations to come after we've left this planet. It with a book like this. So BoundlessParentingBook.com check it out and thank you so much for being a part of this. It's really Interesting because at first I thought when I put it on and suggested to my wife that we try one of the new couple sessions that it might kind of feel like weird with other voices in the bedroom and people you don't know talking to you on the app. And then once we started it, I mean, you get into this state of flow that not only by the time you actually do start making love, makes it an entirely different experience, but you almost get into this like this tantric state where I mean, we can literally just make love forever after doing those breath work sessions, but you keep on doing that same breath work, which I think for a lot of people, like men who have maybe read the multi orgasmic mail book and not actually implemented some of those power draws or known how to tie their breasts breath to their physical movement or the emotional connection during sex, or for people who just haven't really figured out a way to make breath kind of like unconsciously competent during sex, this makes that transition so much easier. I had never really realized how much of a difference it would make in the lovemaking process to do a big dose of breath work beforehand as a couple. And a lot of times we'll start our clothes and then as the breath work progresses, you know, we'll remove items of clothing as we go. But it's for any couples out there who have not tried like couples breath work, it's like you mentioned, you know, instead of going on a date or whatever. Yeah. I mean, spend like the half hour hour you'd normally spend just like eating food and drinking wine and do the breath work together instead. And man, that's a total game changer.

But just it's so strange in our society because one, there's huge stigma to like, okay, I'm going to go to a couples therapist. Right. Like most people will just, just not do that. And it's expensive and you have to share. And so it's like, well, when do I really work on my relationship? You know, and there's not a lot of ways, like if I even wanted to, how do I do it? And so most people listening are probably thinking, yeah, you know, I have a good relationship. But, you know, the same way probably all your listeners, like, yeah, go to the gym, I do some meditation. I have these weekly routines that make me healthy. But what about making relationship healthy? And there's not like, cool, easy, accessible ways to do that. So for, you know, small price, like 1% of what a therapy session is, not to say it replaces therapy, but like, you can do this at home. You don't have to admit to anybody or that you're talking to a doctor or say there's a problem. It can be something like super fun that you look forward to. And that's just, you know, we've had people say we actually do couples classes in the space also. And so the couples class is a date night in the space where in the sauna, you actually do a guided massage of each other. You then go on the ice bath, you do an eye gaze and you repeat these lines, this hanopono to each other. You hug each other to warm up. And then you go back in the sauna and you share a time. You felt supported. And so it's all guided, but it's done in a way where you feel like, yeah, this is like a wicked Friday night. The music's awesome, the space is amazing. And so think ways to make therapy, like techniques fun and accessible and cool is what's going to make it mainstream that like, yeah, I should work on my emotions and feel good about it.

Yeah, it's really interesting when you talk about the physical spaces that you have up there.

I think last time we talked you were expanding them into other places. But tell me more about these brick and mortar facilities because I actually haven't been to one. I really want to go, but in my mind it sounds like some kind of like a breathwork gym sort of.

But then. So there's definitely classes, but. But really, you know, as I mentioned, first date, hot and cold, I was a drug and alcohol addict. And when I was sober I was like, I want to do something at night that's fun, you know, and I would go out and I didn't really want to be around alcohol. So all of a sudden, like sporting events, bars, nightclubs, restaurants, very challenging environments for me. So I'd go to these bathhouses and, you know, bath house is a giant sauna, cold plunge, steam room. And I always had a really good time, but they weren't really geared towards like a nightlife spot. And so we decided, you know, we started with the ice bath, as I mentioned, we had the garage space. And then during COVID we got a really good deal on Elise and opened the this first space in Toronto. There's a couple reasons people go. So one, if you're thinking about why you even go out and socialize, usually it's for community and connection, maybe to find a romantic partner and then also to change your state, which is usually done with music and alcohol. So what if I could offer you all of those things? But In a healthy way where you go home and your whoop or aura score, your HRV is great, you've fallen asleep, you had real connections. And so as we said, the ice bath and the sauna are the things that like get you ready, prime you, make you feel great, so you're ready to connect with others. So yeah, the space there is some breath work, but it's mostly about connection. And so every Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday night from 8pm till sort of 2 in the morning, it's a party, the music's turned up, there's guides, people are mingling, it's super fun. And then also in the spaces, there's classes each day and the classes are like on the app there's up classes. So think of like Wim Hof breathing, dunking your head in the ice bath, vocalizations loud like hip hop, electronic music. There's down classes, so candlelit sound bath, internal journeying, stuff like that. And then there's all around classes. And the all arounds are sort of like the couples one I mentioned. There's an anger release where you bring up moments of anger and the sonic goes pitch black and everyone screams and they release. And so it's very similar to what's on the app, but modified for the physical space with a guide. And so the space is open morning to night for either classes or socials. I just think it's kind of like a new community space for, you know, I mentioned our nervous systems. Loneliness at all time highs, stress at all time highs. Like there's not healthy places to go and congregate at night. You know, there's gyms, great, there's fitness classes. But what do you do at night? And that's when unhealthy stuff happens. You go to a party, it's like oh, I destroyed my body. But there's just not alternatives. The whole goal is just helping you fix your nervous system in community.

The idea of kind of having the sauna and the ice baths combined with the breathwork is of course something I think a lot of people are already familiar with and many people are experimenting with. But have you found other modalities to fit in well with that type of experience? Whether it's certain hacks or supplements or anything else out of biohacking or beyond that you've thrown into the mix and found resonated with a lot of people.

So one thing we found is thinking you're exactly the test case. So you have this sauna, you're probably in there at least two 15 minute sessions, two 20 minute sessions, maybe longer. So in one day, you're in there 40 minutes. It's like, okay, I have 40 minutes here. I'm not on my phone. I'm not doing work. What am I doing? And so you could be listening to podcasts, but sometimes you can make that time more exciting. So it's one of the only places where someone goes and you have a captive audience. So it's incredible. For what we've seen is some of the things that we like to draw from the modalities is essential oils and scents. And so I also heard a podcast with Essential Oil Wizardry and Nick.

Yeah, Dr. Nick from Essential Oil Wizardry.

Yeah. And his stuff is awesome. And so each round there'll be a snowball filled with a different concoction. It could be rosemary, eucalyptus, it could be Chinese cedarwood and cinnamon. And so depending on if the class is up or down, you can use up or down smells. And that has seemed to be people. We don't use our sense of smell too much. It's like one of the most disregarded scents, even though it's so powerful, bypasses the prefrontal cortex, goes right to the emotional brain, triggers those memories. And so every, every class will have like a palette of scents for different reactions. They'll have breath work. And so usually in 20 minutes, there's about five songs, five rounds. So there'll be some breath work down or up. There'll be some visualizations, there'll be some vocalization. So like screams and different stuff to like, let go of the body. And then there'll be some movement. A couple that we've seen. Really interesting to kind of stack in there is stretching. Because your body's hot. You can get some into some deep movements, long yin yoga style stretching, nerve flossing. So combination of those five things around, usually an emotion seems to be the holy grail that people enjoy.

What about things like niacin for increased blood flow? Or other things that come to mind would be like cordyceps mushroom extract for kind of like the adaptogenic effect that has on the lungs. Or even things like, obviously a lot of people will pair ketamine with breathwork as another example. What about nutrients or supplements or even drugs like that?

So I would put this out. I'm not an expert here, and I would put this out to anyone on the show, any listeners. We are in the process of creating a pre and post cold plunge drink that'll be served in this space. And we're thinking something post plunge to heat you up. So potentially Some jalapeno different items that are going to help with that extreme cold, your body body's ability to burn more sugar as thermogenesis turns on. And then in the sauna, right now we're using element packages, which are a fantastic product for hydration, but we want to make an entire drink. So what kind of nutrients, vitamins could we make that increase these feelings? And so, yeah, I'm not an expert and actually probably you would know much better than me, but we're very interested in as part of that class, when you're coming in, what is the optimal pre plunge and post plunge drink and post sauna rehydration drink? Because I think that would be an awesome product.

Yeah, I think a couple of things to think about would be first of all, things that would help to support for the ice component, the conversion of brown adipose tissue or the conversion of white tissue to brown adipose. So some of the things that come to mind for that would be like green tea extract is one one caffeine is another just basic. Any caffeine derivative, vitamin B5 and then also niacin. Those seem to also help with that effect. I had a podcast a while back where I talked about all these things that could help to boost fat burning in cold conditions. Vitamin A is another big one. And so considering the white fat to brown fat conversion would be one, another one would be what increases body heat for the actual sauna component. So there's things like a lot of things that are used now as, as metabolic enhancers, like things that increase metabolism. L Baba is 1 b a I b a Their green tea extract can also help with this black pepper extract or more specifically Grains of paradise, which I actually use in my pepper grinder on our counter. You think you're grinding pepper onto your salad, but all of our pepper grinders, it's grains of paradise extract, which has the same flavor profile as black pepper, but it actually increases metabolism and can also cause that shift of white fat to metabolically active brown fat fat. Bitter melon, like the stuff we have in Kion Lean, that's another one that can help with that conversion. And then there's also a herb called astragalus in there as well. So those would be a few examples of things to think about.

For the increase in the heat component or increasing the white fat to brown fat conversion component. And then of course back to the actual breath itself. Yeah, anything. Probably cordyceps would be one of my favorites for that, that. But any of the vasodilatory Substances as well, like a watermelon extract, beetroot extract, anything along those lines that you'd find a typical pre workout, those so called natural forms of Viagra, even like L arginine, citrulline, yohimbi, a lot of those could also be thrown into the mix. And there's no reason you couldn't develop a supplement that hits all three. That'd be kind of unique. Right. It's totally built for breathwork, sauna cold, where you've got your, your lung openers like a cordyceps, you've got your fat burners like an egcg, the green tea extract, et cetera. And then you have your body heat increasers like Grains of Paradise or the El Baba. And so what would be cool is you could actually develop a powder that has, honestly for most of those, the volume wouldn't have to be enormous for the powder. But yeah, like a stick pack that someone could pour into their water to just sip during the entire session or before, that has a lot of those things in it. That would be kind of a cool concept. I don't think there's anything like that right now I could think of in the industry for specifically that. Breath, heat, cold components. Yeah, it could be pretty cool actually.

I think it's a great idea. If anybody wants to work on that. We have an audience and we're happy to start testing and just handing out packs. And I think exactly what you said, the nitric oxide boosters will really improve the breathwork experience. That's a fantastic idea.

Yeah, that'd be super interesting. And do you guys have plans to go beyond Toronto for these locations? Selfishly enough, I'd love to be able to drop into something like this in.

The U.S. yeah, so we've actually submitted two offers in new York, one in Brooklyn and another in Manhattan. And so by the end of next year, I'm 95% confidence we'll have four studios in New York and Toronto and then we're looking at the west coast also.

Cool. So back to the app itself. When you guys are working with the app, uploading routines, et cetera, how often do you actually add new tracks to the app? Like I see them pop up now and again, but I'm really not sure what the frequency is because it's obviously like a paid app. So I'm sure people expect updates here and there as they go through it.

Yeah, we had a few a week. And so it just depends on the week. Like sometimes we'll add, we'll record, I would say around 15 to 20amonth and then we'll drop in kind of three here and there a week on average. And it just depends on what users are asking for and if we come up with new ideas. So the way the app works is every day you're going to get a new up and down. And so an app is like minimally guided. You know, let's say on average three rounds or so of Wim Hof style, tummo style breathing. That's like I know in six to seven minutes I'm going to blast off. And every day I know that I'm going to have a down session, that if I'm working super hard and I want to relax for a minute or if I'm struggling to sleep, it's there. And I think there's a couple hundred of each of those that rotate. So there's always going to be a new up and down them and then the all around content, the body content, those are harder to create, they take longer, they're longer sessions. The ideas need more refining and research, they're more maximally guided. And so those every month we'll pick a focus. So in January we're actually launching and we're actually going to gift this out for free for anyone who asks. But a 30 day cold plunge challenge. And so each day will be sort of a three to five minute meditation for the cold plunge plunge. Some will include like breathwork pre plunge, some will include breathwork in plunge, some will include like vocal toning and different visualizations in the ice. And so the idea is if I get through this challenge, I can make cold bathing a habit. And so that was a big focus last month, was getting that content ready. And then as I mentioned, February is an intimacy month. So there's always up and down content that we think is best in class and then all around content coming out a bit less frequently.

Okay, so in terms of the actual sessions themselves, there's obviously a ton in there. A couple of my favorites are the ones the feel fantastic now and feel good now. I think Those are like 15 to 17 minute sessions that it's nearly impossible to do and not just feel on top of the world when you finish, but do you have what you would consider to be like some of the favorites, some of the must dos within the app that you think people should try if they get their hands on it.

So I think there's three ways to test, right? There's the up, down and all around. And I think the all around sessions are the ones where you're like, whoa, I didn't even know you could do that. You know, especially if you've never tried breathwork before. It's like, that's the ones where you know you're conquering your fears, you're crying, you're feeling love for the first time, you're seeing visions of your inner child and nothing we really stay away from like woo woo language. It's all based on science and emotion so it's accessible for everybody. So if you're in the app, you know, the first thing to do is search by duration, find a long session and do it with a friend. You know, anything that's like 30 minutes to 60 minutes in the all around section. Then we call them other trips. So they're very, you know, psychedelic, inspired, trippy. Yeah. And so those are like the bangers, the bazooka where if you're like, hey, I'm feeling stressed or I'm not feeling like myself or there's some feelings here I need to work through. That's it, you know, one hour on a Sunday morning, in the evening, maybe with some friends, maybe by yourself. That's like exactly what I would definitely try because that's most unique. Like you can't get that on calm or headspace anywhere else. It's very, very unique. And then in the up section, I love the morning energy flow, morning hip hop. Ones that feel fantastic now feel good now. There's an actual morning journey. It's like a 30 day morning routine challenge in the journey section. And so if you're just like, hey, I want to get started. Can you commit to what we found to build a habit is Monday to Friday, take the weekends off, but say, hey, I'm going to do this for 30 days, Monday to Friday. So it's six weeks and just in that challenge, you can do a different one each day. And they're all kind of 5 minutes to 10, 12 minutes of ups. I think that's the best way to really build the habit that like, hey, this is as good as coffee for me in the morning. I'm not as much the down person. I'm like, I get the sense you're also more of a, you know, I want to push it versus the envelope and stimulate.

And for me too, it's like in the evening by the time I get, you know, get the family up to the bedroom and, and do our bedtime routine and everything is like a breathwork session in the evening sometimes just isn't as doable as one earlier in the day or for that morning workout. Type of session.

Yeah, there's one even just to get started. There's like a perfect breath, I think it's called. It's like a minute long or two minutes long. And it's one breath. So it's a 30 second inhale, a 30 second hold, 30 second exhale. And so it's like, oh, I've never done this before. What happens if I'm struggling? Like you said, like, oh, two minutes and you can just show yourself. You can again, search by duration and show yourself, hey, two minutes. This is going to make a difference because you're changing your physiology. So I think for a lot of people, meditation is very hard, you know, calm headspace. I downloaded it five times, I meditated for 60 days. Nothing's happening. I'm sitting down, I don't know, I've deleted it. The nice thing about breathwork is in a single session, you're not working on awareness, you're working on state change. And so you can feel the change in your body in two minutes. And so that's another good place to start is the short ones. And I'm just, I'm struggling at work. I know there's this sos single deep breath, you know, so. So those are ones I really like. Personal favorite is also intercom. On the downside, it's like binaural beats mixed with slow breathing. That one for me will knock me out every single time. So that's kind of. If you're up, down, all around, there's, there's. Try one of each.

Yeah. So in terms of what you guys might be doing in the future, you're obviously going to expand these brick and mortar facilities, which I really want to drop into and visit. And I'd encourage people to, to try it out. If you're already in Toronto, you probably could. But as far as within the app itself or elsewhere, as far as the direction of other ship, are you guys planning on adding anything else that's new or interesting to the app or to the brick and mortar experience?

Yeah. So I think the vision is really based on personal experience. And so what I found was it was very hard to be ready to change. And so addiction and losing my company, I was almost four into change. So it's really hard to take that first step. So even if I said, I know you talk about, you know, meditation retreats and psychedelics and all these things like, you know, therapy, people just aren't ready for those like massive experiences to start. And then even if they do those massive experiences, and I know a lot of people probably have had plant medicine experiences or again, meditation retreats. When you come back, the first thought is, oh, my life has changed. And it's really not. What happens is for three weeks you feel changed and then you sort of, you know, same friends, same habits, same thought patterns. And so it's very hard to get into the mindset that I want to change. And then even when you try these big transformations, it's hard to maintain it. So we call that like prep and integration. And so what I see others solving over the next 10 years is it's a really easy onboarding. So there's no spirituality component. It's very much, at least discussed. It's very much, hey, whatever you believe, you can bring that here. It's totally open. It's just science backed experiences that are fun and done in community. Okay, great, I can go there for a birthday, I can have some fun, I can go to a concert. And so it kind of gets you into the mode of wow, this is important. And then when you have those big experiences, whether it be religious or meditation or whatever, when you come back to your city, there's like a group of people that are also trying to change for the better, being a positive community. And so what I see othership as is this hub of physical spaces, this app that you can use daily to shift your estate when you need. And then we're going to launch a product called Groups eventually. And the idea of a group is maybe you're lonely and you've come 25 times and you get the offer to join a group. And the group is once a week, virtual meetup on the app where you share and you learn and so you might share how you're feeling really. And then there's a challenge around like service to others because I think that's really important also for happiness. So it's once a week, once bi weekly on the recorded session together or a virtual session. Then once a week you go meet in the space and then you do that for two, three months and then it ends in a retreat. And the retreat can be psychedelic medicines. It could be a landmark leadership forum or Tony Robbins. It could be just a nature retreat. The whole thing is bringing a group together to meet and share their feelings virtually to meet in physical space and then to do a deep transform experience together and then continue it when they come back. So I think with that methodology in all cities, you're starting to build this platform where people can make real sustainable behavioral change. Because what I've seen in my psychedelic use is that just the psychedelics alone or just the meditation alone. When you don't have the community and the integration, it's harder to change. And so just I feel if you have this entire system together with people and there's like a component of service to others that'll be what makes people happy.

Yeah, that's really cool. And that's obviously way more dynamic than anything that's going on right now. As far as I know, in the Breathwork and the Breathwork app, it's almost like an integration component worked in. It's like when I do the Breathwork sessions with my sons, which is typically in the sauna, we finish and I actually walk them through a vagal nerve reawakening process where we open our eyes and I have them shift their gaze to the left, then the right, then up and down with minimal movement of the head. And then shift their gaze at something far in the room, shift their gaze at something close in the room, shift their gaze to something around, shift their gaze to something square. So that's like about two minutes for us when we finish. And then I tell them, okay, we're all going to very quietly go through the yard out into the cold tub. It's about a 50 yard walk. And our only goal is to remain in that same state of mindfulness and intentionality that we developed during the actual breathwork session. And then we slip into the cold pool just very quietly and slowly and do a few head dips in the cold pool. And then the understanding between all of us is none of us have to talk to each other. We can all be in our own space. And we're usually doing these sessions at sometime between 6 and 6:30 we'll start. Usually we meet up for family dinner at 7 so they know all they need to do is just, just be in the kitchen at family dinner at 7. But I give them this whole time, usually it's a good half hour to 45 minutes to just soak up everything that they've experienced during the breathwork session, do the cold afterwards. But there's not a lot of chatter, there's not a lot of laughing, joking, anything. We're just all inside our own space. After we do that vagal nerve reawakening, we go out, we do the cold, and then eventually everybody's showered up and dressed. And a lot of times they're in their bathrobes at the dinner table table. But that's what we did all last winter. And we're recording this right now in November. So we're starting up our breathwork gong again. This is kind of like perfect timing. In a few days in December and all through this winter we'll be doing the same thing. Father, son, about three times a week, the 15 minute sessions. And then one or two times a month we do the full on 60 minute session in the sauna. And it's actually really amazing to see how it improves things like, like focus, mindfulness awareness and just overall calmness in a couple of. Well, last year when we did they were 13, now they're 14. But I think it's just one of the best things for kids especially to develop this intimate connection with their own breath work, to be able to turn the dial up and down on their own physiology and then also to be given that space to integrate afterwards.

Yeah, I mean there's nothing like that that in the world, you know. And then imagine on top of that all the parents in your neighborhood were doing that and the kids met in a group and shared, you know, when. What kind of training is there for kids to master their emotions? Almost none. So. And you know, it's because that kind of training in a room with a therapist is it's harder to focus especially as you're younger. And so now what you're creating is like these physical sensations through breathing hot cold that put them into a state that like wow, okay, you know, now they're ready to integrate. Right. And so it's just brilliant. It's like priming your state to make real sustainable change. And then because they enjoy the hot cold and the breathing, like you know, you mentioned you're doing it every day that deep dives monthly. Like you need all of these things are not one and done. Right. Like they're, they're life habits you need to implement to make real change. So it's so cool to hear you're doing that.

Yeah, it's been a huge, huge boost for just our, our connection as fathers and sons or as father and sons. And also I think just systematically using Othership, one of the better ways to actually have access to a whole bunch of sessions that we can choose from. With Othership, it's obviously a paid app just to come right out and be transparent with people. I don't think it's like the least expensive breathwork app out there. I think if you subscribe, what's the approximate cost?

So it's $128 a year and I think around $18 a month. And we do have a scholarship program which people can email us about if affordability is an issue.

Okay, what's a scholarship program?

Just generally if you email us and say like, hey, I can't afford this and you know, I'd like to get access, we'll gift the membership completely.

Okay, cool. And then for all of our listeners, we're doing, I think a 14 day free trial. People just want to kick the tires and try it out, right?

Yep.

Okay, cool. I'll link to that. I think you just go to BenGreenfieldLife.com othership but what I'll do is I made show notes for this show. If you go to BenGreenfieldLife.com BentBreath Robbie's last name is Bent. So BenGreenfieldLife.com Bentbreath and I'll link to everything that Robby and I talked about and link to the app. And also Robby sent me over some cool videos, like an 1800 person ice bath in Toronto. And then also there were another thousand people in that other Breathwork session that you sent over to me, I think. Was that through you guys or was that just like a city event?

Yeah, we did it with another group in the city. And so the idea is to create these massive events for awareness that like, hey, you can connect without alcohol. And the videos are incredible. Like one is 1800 person. I think we didn't hire Guinness because it's expensive, but I think it's a world record. And the breathwork was Also, you know, 850 or 900 people candle lit on like a Tuesday night in Toronto. And so the goal is like show people that there is demand for this stuff and people want to feel their emotions and do it in a way that's sober and healthy. And you know, I'm going to put it out there now, but I want to do one 10,000 people in New York around the launch. So that's sort of the, like, it just, it's a groundswell of people looking to feel good.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's pretty much impossible to not feel good after you use this thing. So for anybody listening, I highly recommend you try it out again. I try a ton of Breathwork apps and this is my favorite, bar none. I've done courses like I did that course with Niraj Naik, the renegade pharmacist guy. Josh Trent has a great course to do the more didactic sessions, even though Othership also has a bunch of learnings as well within their app itself. But if you just want in your pocket, boom, click. I want to feel up, I want to go down. I want to trip out anything. You just pick a session and you go. And again, you're learning how to elegantly use that free built in physiological adjuster that's inside each of us. So BenGreenfieldLife.com BentBreath is where I'll put the show notes and the app is called Othership. You can check it out. BenGreenfieldLife.com othership Robbie, thanks so much for not only creating this, but also coming on the show and sharing some of the background behind it.

Thanks man. What a big moment and fun moment for me. I don't usually get nervous doing these, but the heart was pounding when we started, so yeah, it was a pretty meaningful moment for me, so I appreciate it.

Well, fortunately, you know what to do about a pounding heart. Just go grab one of those down sessions. You'll be good to go. Cool. All right folks, well, I'm Ben Greenfield, along with my friend Robbie Bent signing out from BenGreenfieldLife.com try the other Ship app and until next time, have an amazing week.

More than ever these days, people like you and me need a fresh, entertaining, well informed and often outside the box approach to discovering the health and happiness and hope that we all crave. So I hope I've been able to do that for you on this episode today. And if you liked it or if you love what I'm up to, then please leave me a review on your preferred podcast listening channel, wherever that might be, and just find the Ben Greenfield life episode. Say something nice. Thanks so much. Means a lot.