Book Sales vs. Business Growth: What Actually Matters - With Chandler Bolt

A lot of people think they can become a millionaire with book sales, and that's not the case, right?

But, but the book can make you rich.

Yeah.

From customers. Most people decide to write a book for a specific reason, and it's probably connected to their business.

Yeah.

So why not just get a bunch of customers instead of getting totally distracted chasing some vanity list that doesn't move the needle? We do a lot of business development, so it's partnerships, it's speaking, it's all that stuff. And so we have these podcasts that we're trying to get on, and that'll maybe be a $6 or $7 million arm of the company this year.

I dropped in to see one of my buddies in Austin who is actually big in the publishing industry. He's the CEO of selfpublishing.com. He's a Forbes 30 Under 30 honoree. He's the author of 7 bestselling books, including one called Publish that's really good. Me and my sons have read that as a guide for self-publishing. And actually, a fun fact, his brother Seth plays in the Grammy-nominated band Need to Breathe. big rock band. So, he's an interesting guy. And, we talk about Chandler's productivity tactics, his day-to-day routine. It was a very interesting discussion. He's a super inspirational guy. All the shownotes for this interview with Chandler Bolt are going to be at BenGreenfieldLife.com/Bolt. That's BenGreenfieldLife.com/B-O-L-T. Let's go talk with Chandler. Alright. So, Chandler, I briefly introduced you, but it's kind of weird. We haven't spent a lot of time together. I played pickleball at your house. Yeah. Just randomly grabbed Last year and jumped off your dock into the lake, and we've never actually sat down and had a conversation. But I know you're very successful in what you do in the self-publishing industry, and you also take care of yourself. And I've heard a lot of good things about you, the way that you do that. What would you— how would you describe to people like what it is that you do in the publishing world?

I like to say self-publishing is entrepreneurial publishing. It's betting on yourself. You know that. You've obviously published a bunch of books successfully. We got a book around here we're going to give to you because I know you're working on some fiction.

No way.

So we'll make that happen here in a bit. But predominantly our bread and butter is helping people grow their business using a book or grow their practice.

A calling card type of thing.

Get leverage to what they're trying to do.

Yeah. A lot of people think they can become a millionaire with book sales and that's not—

But the book can make you rich from customers opting out to you. Right, exactly.

Unless you're like James Clear or Mark Manson or—

Yes. Yeah.

Even those guys, I think they probably make more from speaking revenue than they do from books.

Likely.

Yeah. Yeah. How important, just randomly, do you think it is to be a New York Times bestselling author anymore?

It's not important at all. It's just like, I mean, you are, which is pretty impressive.

But I mean, I hear increasingly that like people aren't impressed by it. And you'd probably know if this is true. You can like buy your way in.

Yes, you can definitely buy your way on. I mean, it's a couple hundred grand because you got to buy 10,000 books basically, and you got to filter them through small bookstores, big bookstores, bulk, all the things. But I just think it's really, it's a really dumb pursuit. Most people are, decide to write a book for a specific reason, and it's probably connected to their business.

Yeah.

So why not just get a bunch of customers instead of getting totally distracted chasing some vanity list that doesn't move the needle?

I've always wondered. And then like with the speaking thing, I did hear before that people are like, well, you could, you could get paid more as a speaker if you're able to say New York Times bestselling author. But even now, like, I don't know, like, I get invites to go speak at places and I guarantee like at least 50% of people who are inviting me to speak like have no clue I'm a New York Times author. But I think they're more interested now. I'm like, what do they do on YouTube? And, you know, and, you know, what can they speak to? And do they fit our profile?

I think really, yeah, really what they're asking is, are people paying attention to what this person has to say? And if I bring them to speak at my event, are they either going to add a ton of value or move tickets or both?

Yeah.

I think early on, maybe the New York Times calling card is a little bit important, but to your point, once you've done all the stuff that you've done, most people don't even know. Like, I didn't even realize that until I was doing research for our interviews today. I'm like, oh, cool. You hit the New York Times.

You mean that I was in the New York Times?

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it was like, oh, okay, cool. Yeah, I knew you'd done a bunch of books, but I mean, it was just kind of buried in the research.

Yeah, yeah. Well, thank you for bringing that to light. Digging that up on my record. It's official. Chandler verifies. He found it on Wikipedia. Um, so like your office, obviously you're up to a lot because you're working with all these authors. Uh, I know you work hard. I recently started following you on social leading up to this interview, just kind of like see what kind of stuff you get up to. You just like flew across the world somewhere, didn't you?

Italy. Yeah.

And one of the things that I learned is that you, like me, are a nap fan.

Yes, it's a non-negotiable. People make fun of me. I'm on the train of We've got to make naps cool again. It's every day. And since I started working in this office, it's been harder because I'm napping in the office. So I have kind of like this little contraption where I just had a little pillow where I can kind of do a face-down nap.

You mean like the pillow that they sell for being able to sleep with the airplane tray?

Probably. Yeah, yeah. Something like that. Yeah, yeah. Very similar. But I mean, I haven't missed a nap for, I don't know, years. People make fun of me because it's— my wife says I'm like a toddler. She's like, if Chandler doesn't get a chance, it's not good.

Well, do you know I do the same thing? Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm on the napping bandwagon. And like the way I think about it, and I don't know if this is similar for you, is I do like get up earlier than what would be ideal for me to get like the perfect 8 hours of sleep. So my logic is, well, I can at least get stuff done before the world expects me to have my phone on and before like, Slack and Asana and everything are blowing up so I can get deep work done and do my morning routine. And then so that my immune system doesn't suffer and so I recover at that point, well, I need to actually get a sleep cycle in somewhere. So then for me, it's usually 2:00 PM. My team knows unless it's a totally emergency call, I don't schedule anything on Ben's calendar between 2:00 and 3:00, and I just tuck away.

How long?

I do not set An alarm unless I know, because usually like I don't have important calls and stuff again until 4. So usually it's like 2 to 3, but then there's like a buffer zone for me to catch up on emails and stuff. There's— I guarantee there's no way I'm gonna nap 2 hours. Yeah, right. So the longest I go is like maybe a little over an hour, and that's— oh wow, rare. And usually it's more like 30 to 40 minutes.

Okay, you would know more about this than I do. I always heard that 30 minutes was the threshold where if you go longer than that, you get into deeper REM sleep.

Yeah.

And then it's tough, and then you wake up groggy. So, I always kind of like— I started at 22 minutes maybe, and then I've— now it's the 16-minute nap. But, I don't know, that's—

It depends a lot. So, those studies are done in sleep wards with untrained individuals, meaning people who are in a tightly controlled sleeping environment where they're measuring circadian rhythmicity and you've got all the electrodes attached to your head to measure deep sleep and REM sleep, what stages that you're in. And then, these people are also not During that time, either training hard or running a business hard. You know, might sleep, let's say, 6.5 hours, take a 40-minute nap. I'm still tired at night, and I get really good sleep scores because I'm still like weightlifting for an hour in the morning, and you're pushing my body way harder than I would if I were in like a metabolic ward study in a hospital. And so I think the idea of like napping messing up your sleep is, um, it's, it's new. It's like it's a nuanced discussion.

Mm-hmm.

I think the other piece is timing, right? I think it's a bigger mistake to nap too late in the day.

Yeah, totally.

Generally, the rule is you should be done at least 5 hours before bedtime. So, if you're napping, you better be up from your nap by 5, at the latest, if you're gonna go to bed at 10.

Yeah, I kind of subscribe to that where I'm more in the 12 to 2 kind of range. But basically, I eat and then it's almost like, for better or worse, sometimes I wish I wasn't this way on the weekends because the same thing happens and it's like, well, I just ate and then now I have to take a nap.

Or else, like, I'm like, on a Saturday, sometimes you're out for the afternoon with friends and like, it's like your brain starts to go 100%.

And I'm like, well, you guys go in, I'm gonna stay in the car and just like take a 15-minute nap or something.

And it's trainable for people listening. Yes. Well, I can't sleep. Like, I didn't used to be able to sleep in an airplane or a car, under a desk. And then once you start and— yeah, certain things, like I have over-the-ear headphones, yeah, app called NuCalm. I got like an eye mask. Like, if you have like a napping kit.

Yes. Yes. For me, it's just eye mask and earplugs, but I mean, and then the pillow. But when I was at home, I would go, I would actually go in my, when I work from home, I would go to bed obviously and just get in the bed.

Do you do a lot of, um, like, uh, you know, in the health world, the whole idea of like self-quantification, self-experimentation, like trying different whatever supplements or napping methods or whatever. That's something a lot of people are into now, right? Just like, yes, track, quantify.

Are you much of like a self-experimenter or you just have like your I think the big difference between self-experimenting and then tracking, I definitely self-experiment with a ton of stuff and I feel like I've kind of dialed in. Like, I'll do challenges like the Whole30 where I'll do that for a month or I'll do— we do a health challenge as a company in February where everyone chooses their own adventure. And, like, this year I did 4,000 pull-ups and 4,000 push-ups and sit-ups and all this stuff in a month. Yeah. And so, I'll do stuff like that.

Not a morning.

What's that?

Not a morning.

No, no, no, no, no. It wasn't a morning.

Jocko Willink.

Basically like 200 pull-ups, push-ups, sit-ups, no alcohol, no— like, so I'll do like challenges. I love challenges. I love— I mean, I've got my morning routine kind of that I do, a nap, eating. I mean, intermittent fasting. So that's kind of for me what works. And then a light lunch and then bigger dinner. But, but then the tracking, I think, which is so funny because in every aspect of my life and in every aspect of my business, I track everything.

Yeah.

But I've just never gotten on that side for health. I kind of ignorant— you're probably going to hate this, but I kind of think ignorance is bliss with some of that stuff where I don't want the confirmation bias of, oh, my sleep source sucks, therefore I'm tired. I'm like, no.

I felt great after that perfect night of sleep until I looked at my—

100%. And so I just feel like, okay, it's not going to be all that helpful for me unless I do it for a short period of time just to figure out what works and what doesn't. But I think for a lot of people doing ongoing all the time tracking. It's like marginal utility and it's just more stimuli. Yeah, I don't know, what's your take?

Yeah, I think— and then there's actually a whole book about this called Unplugged— and the, the idea of being so married to a wearable or sleep data or self-quantified data or step count or whatever to the point where it's stressing you out or becoming such a distraction that, for example, I know people who will like work out for 45 minutes and then spend 10 minutes just like pouring through their data and logging. And I'm like, you probably could have just like worked 55 minutes or 70 minutes a week instead of just collecting all this stuff. Yeah. So, I pay attention to certain metrics, especially if I don't feel or I don't have much energy, I'll check my blood glucose monitor. Or, because it's very common if you wake up at 2:00 a.m., you're not waking up because it's too loud or the room's too hot or the bed isn't firm enough or whatever. A lot of times between about midnight and 2:00, if you wake up, it's because of low blood glucose. And then, I just know, I'm like, oh, I probably didn't eat enough for dinner and I should go downstairs and just have a banana and go back to bed. So, it's useful for that. And then, heart rate variability, which is basically your measurement of stress or readiness. If that dips, I kind of like— because I take a glance at that score every day and if it dips, I'm not concerned. But then, if it goes for 3 days and it's lower than usual, That is highly predictive of injury or illness. Like, it's super accurate. Um, and so if you, if you know that, you can nip it in the bud. You're like, I'm gonna take it easy today. Yeah, I'm gonna take some astragalus or vitamin C or go get an IV or whatever. So it is kind of cool that, that you can have a little bit of a crystal ball into, you know, am I gonna pull my back at the gym if I—

Yeah.

Hit it today, or am I gonna get sick? But then I used to do a lot of endurance sports like triathlon, and we would just have all this stuff like the cadence meter on the bike, the power meter, and the heart rate monitor, and the accelerometer, and the GPS. And, I got to the point where I felt like I was a running computer.

Yeah.

Then, the last 2 years of racing, I just got a cheap-ass Timex and heart rate monitor, and that was it. And, it was just the best because You're, you're less distracted and you feel like you're less tied to all the technology that's like running your life.

It's kind of like with morning routines where people— the running joke of early on in your career you have the 3-hour morning routine, and then as you progress it gets to like 20 minutes or something because you realize, I don't need to be doing all of these things. Like, I kind of just need to wake up.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you have like a Like a morning routine?

Yeah. I mean, I kind of— I'm a Miracle Morning guy. Hal Elrod is one of— he sent us probably more authors than anybody ever.

And I don't even know if Hal's ever been on the podcast. He might have been. I'm second-guessing now. He might have been like years ago. But for people who don't know, what's the Miracle Morning?

Cool. Well, you gotta— we gotta make— we gotta make that happen. Hal's one of the most inspiring guys I've ever met. The Miracle Morning, basically he has this SAVERS framework, right? Which is Silence, so meditation. A is for affirmation. V is for visualization. E is for exercise. R is for reading. S is for scribing, so journaling. And so he had multiple— he died in a car wreck, or he got pronounced dead multiple times in his life.

Right.

Car wreck, cancer. And he found this SAVERS kind of mantra of a Miracle Morning. And so I think early on I subscribed to all of that. Now I kind of have an abbreviated version of that. But either way, it's live or die by my morning routine. If I don't have my morning— if I don't do my morning routine, my day is kind of off the rails. If I do it, it's— which is 99.9% of the time I do it. And so it's just, it's pretty basic. It's just waking up, it's taking vitamins and stuff, it's basic workout, like body workouts. Yeah, like push-ups, pull-ups, sit-ups, all that stuff. It's, um, reading. So I got an audiobook in.

So audio counts?

I say I count it personally.

I, I count it. Like, I mean, if I listen to 2 audiobooks in a month and read Oh yeah. Like, I tell people like I did 10 books this year.

Yes, 100%. I'm very much in that camp. So, I'll tear through an audiobook and then I'm getting back on the meditation train. Like, I used to do the whole thing. It was like I would listen to my affirmations.

Yeah.

I would do my visualizations. I would, you know, I would— I had affirmations that my brother recorded me and I would listen to those and then I would do a meditation on that. And, I just kind of like pared it back a lot, but I've noticed as of late, I haven't meditated in years and I need to bring that back because it was just too much.

Does breathwork count for you as meditation?

I think so. I don't really do it unless I'm in a setting where someone's leading it.

I don't have an app or anything. I was at a workout this morning and we finished with breathwork and I did breathwork religiously for probably 8 years. And, I like it because you are meditating but you're also doing a lot of gas exchange pulmonary stuff. So, I almost feel like meditation with extra Benefits. And, I feel the same relaxation and peace and I'm still able to visualize, for example, on the exhale hold. But, it's almost like instead of just sitting there and maybe meditators would just absolutely hate this description, but it feels like more productive meditation.

Totally.

Yeah, that is the intent of meditation. Yeah. I don't know, it's like walking prayer. It's like, yes, I'm praying, but I'm also on Yeah. My body and getting sunshine and nature. And so—

I like that. And honestly, I feel like breathwork is almost better than meditation because it's what you're doing anyway.

Yeah.

And again, like, probably the meditation experts would hate that as well, but I think it feels like it's what you're doing anyway, which is getting yourself to focus on your breath.

Yeah.

But more productive.

Are you like a water guy? Cold plunge, float tank, like any of that stuff?

Yeah. It's so funny. I feel like, I don't know if you've experienced this, Maybe less so because it's more of your job, but I felt like I was dialed in on all of these things. I've floated away from those things and now I'm introducing a bunch of them back. So, I got a cold plunge and sauna at the house. We're in kind of baby-making mode, so the sauna's off the table for now.

Oh, man. Even if you get the icier balls everywhere?

Yeah.

I'm not icing my balls. You know what hot tub's worse though? Hot tub's worse because the scrotal tissue is just closer to the water. But, yeah, sauna is impactful on fertility in a negative way. So, you're not doing sauna but you're cold?

Yeah, doing cold plunge. I need to get back at it, but I used to do a lot of cryotherapy and a lot of float tanks. And, I still do float tanks sometimes, but it's more, okay, there's a big thing happening in my life or big decisions that I need to be making or an offsite coming up where we're going to have a lot of strategic stuff. Let me float tank ahead of So, I can both relax but then also clear my mind on some decisions I need to make. So, kind of strategically positioning that where it needs to be.

Yeah. Do you like have a float tank or you go?

No, I just go. Yeah.

I love them. I go— I did.

Do you have one?

No, I had one and it's just a whole lot of upkeep, right? The basement gets all salty and there's water everywhere. It's a cool concept though. The last time I did one was here in Austin, this place called Kuya. Well, thanks. And my wife and I did a couple's session.

Cool.

And I, as soon as I get in there, within like 15 minutes, I'm dead to the world.

Yeah.

Just like snoring and thrashing.

Yeah.

And she hates it. She literally just like listening to me snore and thrash.

Do you always fall asleep?

Yeah. It like, anything sensory deprivation for me, because I don't know if you're this way, like, like if I am not in a sensory deprived scenario, I'm just pushing and thinking and analyzing and planning the whole time. But as soon as you like put me in Somewhere where I'm just not allowed to do that, like a hyperbaric chamber or sometimes an airplane counts if you decide to keep the Wi-Fi off or a float tank.

Massage.

Yeah. Although, for massages, I do have a voice recorder under the table. So, that's the worst. If you're in a massage and they do make float tanks now with recorders in the ceiling. But yeah, if you're in that scenario, And, you do want to relax but you have a brilliant thought and then you get the thought loop and it's just like this worm in your brain. You can't lose it. Yeah. So, I've learned that having a recorder handy for sessions like that is good and I have it running the whole time. But yeah, if I get sensory deprived, yeah, I'll be out like a light. A lot of times, I'll combine that with a nap like a hyperbaric.

That's smart. I love the voice recorder idea because you're totally right. You get an idea and then you're like, well, I can't forget it.

Right. And, there are voice-activated voice recorders too.

Cool.

So, you go to Amazon, voice-activated voice recorder. And then like rather than running it the whole time and then you say something and you don't remember, was that like the 35-minute mark or whatever, like you just like got your audio.

Nice, that's cool. I like that. I always fall asleep in the float tank. I got a funny story on, uh, uh, one time I was living in San Diego and I started this entrepreneur house and it was kind of a way for me to optimize my health and the business and all this is just move a bunch of people into a house. And so I was, I was taking a buddy to, uh, to try out the float tank for the first time.

Yeah.

And we got stuck in, in, in traffic because It rained, and then when it rains in Southern California, people just lose their mind and forget how to drive. And so we finally get to the float tank place like an hour late, and they said, hey, the only thing we got— you're past your appointment, we can't let you go in, but the only thing we got is a couple's tank.

Yeah, do you need a buddy? I'm like, I'm down.

It's the only time I've ever been in a couple's float tank. Yeah, yeah, that's like, that's like the heart-shaped hot tub in Dumb and Dumber.

Yeah. Speaking of trying to have babies, so you guys are on a fertility quest?

Yeah.

Are you actually taking a bunch of herbs? Yeah.

Oh, really?

Okay. Maybe we should stay with that then. How long have you been married?

2 years married.

Okay.

We've been maybe trying for 6 or 7 months so far.

Yeah. And, is your wife into fitness, health, biohacking, that kind of stuff also? Yeah.

She— let's say biohacking, but basic fitness, health. Like, yeah, athlete.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cool. You, you mentioned like all these different steps that you're going through and how Elrod's Miracle Morning— did you say that visualization is, is actually one of the steps?

It is. Yeah.

Is that what it's called?

Yeah, visualization.

What was the, uh, acronym that you used?

SAVERS. Oh yeah, yeah, the V in SAVERS.

What's that look like?

Yeah, you know, it's so funny, it's been a long time since I've done that specific step. Um, but it is, it's, it's literally, I mean, he would probably say it differently than this, but it's just sitting there visualizing your ideal life.

Your— So it's not just like your day, it's like your life.

Yeah.

Every single day.

At least that's how I remember it. Um, I was more on the affirmations. Like, that was more my thing. Now, I would do some visualization, but it was like, you know, like I would have a 60-second track that I listened to. Hey, I'm Chandler Bourne, I'm this, I'm this, I'm this, I'm this, and I'm listening to that. And then I would pair that with— I had my brother recorded it for me of like him kind of speaking life into me. It's just like, okay, I'm hearing that first thing in the morning. Yeah, that was, yeah, that was really fun.

Uh, so with affirmations, are you like repeating those? I, I actually don't do a lot of these myself, but are you like looking at yourself in the mirror or like in a book and you're reading them? You said your brother recorded them for you, so obviously you're listening to some of them. How's it work?

Early on, it was I had a note and I would say it out loud. And so I would read the note and I would say it out loud, and it would be things that I'm speaking to life or the things that I'm wanting to embody in my life. And then later on, it became just listening to them. I've recorded it. And so then it's almost kind of just like hearing that.

So typical workday, For you, um, are you into anything related to like biomechanics, ergonomics of the workplace? Like, are you doing, uh, stand-up desks or anything like that as far as like—

Yeah.

Like things physically that affect your mental game?

You name it as it relates to work productivity, and I've probably tested it, tried it, or do it.

Yeah.

I don't know. I feel like we're very alike in this where I think Early on in my life, I was a blue-collar worker. So, I mean, my parents met working night shift at a factory. I'm from the middle of nowhere, South Carolina. All of my jobs growing up were manual labor.

Yeah.

And it was slinging mulch, it was running landscaping businesses, it was painting houses and running house painting companies. And then when I moved over into white-collar work, I said, holy cow, I think it's— people are going to think this is crazy— I think it's harder. Because for me, I'm like, cool, you drink the night before, you do whatever.

Yeah.

Blue-collar work, you, you like roll out of You go to bed at 6:00 AM and you're like, I painted all through college. And then, you know, you're like, okay, I'm out there and I could go work a 13-hour day, no problem. And, it did not matter how I slept, what I put in my body, I was not thinking about any of those things. But then, as soon as you switch over to white-collar work, it's all between the ears. And then, I realized, oh, if I have a beer at the end of the day, I am groggy the next day. Oh, if I am sitting all day like this. And so then, I started down this journey of just testing basically everything. And so, It started when my work-from-home setup— obviously now we launched the office a couple years ago and have been building that up, but stand-up desk, little wobble thing under my feet.

Yeah, like a balance board.

Balance board, elevated stuff, like elevated computer, the napping, just like a bajillion things like that.

Yeah. You mess around much with lighting, circadian?

I haven't, no.

That's a huge one for me now.

It's big in the documentary. I love that.

Yeah, we talk about red light in the documentary, which is good for mitochondrial stimulus or pain, inflammation, recovery, stuff like that. But, if you look at modern overhead LED fluorescent lighting, it's this flicker that it creates and a little bit of extra electromagnetic field. That it produces.

So interesting.

Like a Wi-Fi router, for example.

Yeah.

So, if the entire office is equipped with those kind of lights, you're just basically creating low-level irritation to the retina that I think towards especially the end of the day, like mid-afternoon, starts to impact things like brain fog, alertness, and just cognitive performance in general. So, in my office, I have only what's called full-spectrum lighting. I mean, instead of just like concentrated blue LED fluorescent light, all the bulbs, um, we went with a company called Block Blue Light. All the bulbs can switch from like red for nighttime to orange for twilight, bright for day, but more like full spectrum bright. And then there is like another lamp like right by my like writing table that's just like as close to the sunlight spectrum as possible.

Nice.

It's— I think it's underrated, the idea of like switching out the lighting scenario in the home or the office to be basically like as close as possible what you find in nature, and then have the ability to have like when you're working in the morning, if it's dark, like have it just be red light. Or if you're working in the evening when it's dark, have it just be red light. So you kind of got like sunrise, sunset sandwiched in between like bright full-spectrum light. It's a game changer for me as far as like alertness and productivity during the day.

I'd be curious, how would you think about that for an office Like this, would you just— have you, have you done it?

So you've got like, obviously you have like the big— people watching or viewing can't see this, but like the big panel-based lights that probably— those probably have like tube-based LEDs running through them. Those are a little bit more difficult to replace, but in a scenario like that, you can take like a typical lamp stand, like there's a lamp stand behind you, and just like put a few of those in each room. And then, uh, Block Blue Light is one company, Bon Charge is another company, and then a company called Raw Optics just came out with a really good one. But you put those bulbs in the standalone lamps, so in any given room where someone's working, they have the option not to flip on the bright overhead LED fluorescent lights and can just use those. Yeah, spectrum lighting.

It's something where this is a temporary space, but it's something that— it's so interesting working from home for so long and just kind of perfecting and dialing in that setup, and then Switching to the office, it's disrupted a lot of that obviously. But then, now it's got me thinking, okay, well, we've got a whole team here. How can we optimize this space, not just my space?

Yeah. And, it's tricky when it's a whole team. I mean, so our offices for Aeon, my supplements company, are in Boulder. And, we just replicated as much as possible in terms of just the movement part of things, less on how geeked out I've been in my office with air, light, water, Mm-hmm. And hardwiring the electricity or hardwiring the ethernet to avoid Wi-Fi. But there, it's more like movement, in my opinion, trumps a lot when it comes to staying fit through the day or keeping metabolism elevated or whatever. So, we've got the stand-up desk, we've got pull-up bar, kettlebells, inversion table, jungle gym type of thing. So basically, in the same way that you don't want a bunch of clear glass jars of M&M's everywhere in the office. It's like insight in mind. People more likely, you know, like if people are like gripping over exercise equipment in your office or like having to walk under yoga trapeze or pull-up bar or whatever, like you're just creating an environment where people move and also sending the message that like it's acceptable to move at work. Like, I like that. We're not gonna like frown on you for lack of productivity if we find you cranking out a few pull-ups, you know.

Yeah.

On a Zoom call or whatever.

I like that a lot. And I saw this in the documentary, and, and so I know you do this sometimes. I'm assuming you're a treadmill desk guy too. Do you like that or not so much?

There's levels though. So I used to have just like a normal treadmill, like the treadmill you find in the gym, like the motorized belt and everything. And then there's kind of 2 things, um, actually 3. One is the motor makes noise, so if you're on calls I'm like, I'll even record sometimes while I'm walking.

Yeah.

That gets in the way. And, the treadmills are actually really, really high source, speaking of EMF, of EMF. So, it's having just an extra Wi-Fi router in your office. And then, the ones that move, they kind of keep your feet moving but you don't have to really activate your glutes to push off. So, biomechanically, you're just using less of the muscles that kind of help support the body and strengthen the low back. So then I did a manual treadmill. Now I got this one, um, from this company called Walkolution. It says illusion like Walkolution, and it's like this foam surface that's super whisper quiet that you can walk on just like barefoot or with your shoes on. And then there's no motor. And then have you seen those treadmills that they use?

Mm-hmm.

CrossFit Games where they're curved like with weight goodmills? It's like that. And so the The curve makes it so you actually have to use your glutes, like push off in order to move the belt. And I probably get, dude, I probably get like 10,000 steps plus a day.

Oh wow.

Just working.

Yeah.

Or just Zoom calls, or, uh, I've gotten to the point where I can read a book just walking on the treadmill, which is super nice because I, I don't know about you, but like for my job, for the podcast, I read a lot of books.

Yeah. Do you, do Do you stand up, sit down? Do you ever sit down during the day?

I'm sitting down right now, dude. I, I, uh, I don't sit that much. No, no, I don't. Like, usually for me it's alternating standing and walking. And then I am building out a new studio right now, but we're putting in a chair that's kind of like a saddle chair, uh, that's difficult to describe. People could probably Google it and look it up or whatever, but it kind Splits your pelvis and it feels like you're sitting on a horse saddle and you don't really have back support. So, it's kind of like the old-school method of sitting on a stability ball to keep your core strong, but it's like that. It's like a chair without a back. So, you're still kind of forced to use the muscles to keep your posture upright.

I got a funny story about you that I learned recently that's about not sitting. I ran into Josh Fazzoni at your documentary premiere.

Yeah. And so, people listening, Josh is like, oh, he's like OG in like the supplements industry. Yeah, super successful.

BioTrust back in the day. Yeah, him and Joe Marion and some— I'm just like, hey, what, you know, uh, talking about that, you and, and, and, uh, how did you meet him? How do you know him? And he said, for the first time I'm on this plane. Do you remember this story? Oh, he said, the first time I ever met this guy, I didn't know him, and I was on a plane And this guy keeps pacing the plane. And he's like, and then at some point, the stewardess is like, hey, you've got to sit down. He said, he said, so I'm like, okay, I know this guy. And then I go to this conference and then there's this guy next to me squatting in the seat. And he said, they're like, and welcome to this. He jumps out of his seat and runs up there. And I'm like, oh, that's that guy from the plane.

Yeah.

So yeah, your reputation precedes you. You never sit down.

Um, there's— so, so that I put this on Instagram, and for some reason people either thought it was hilarious or, uh, rude or inconvenient or odd. But if you get up as soon as— so let's say you're going to be on a long flight and you want to stretch or whatever, do air squats, and as soon as the seatbelt light turns, um, off, which is at whatever, how many thousand feet, you get up and you go to the back, even if you're in first, just like go go to the rear lav and you like go in the rear lav, whether you have to go or not, like whatever, just like dick around on your phone, whatever. And, and then shortly after that seatbelt sign turns off, they bring all the carts out from the rear of the airplane and the stewardesses for like the next 20 minutes are just serving people. And you have an entire like rear of the airplane to yourself when you come out of the bathroom, just like do squats, do leg swings, stretch out. So it's like your own little yoga room back there. And then nobody cares because the stewardesses, you're not in their Yeah. Like sticking your ass in their face doing air squats or whatever because they're like off serving. Uh, and that's— and it's, it's the best airplane movement hack ever.

So people, you got hate for that?

A little bit. Yeah, that's so weird. You use the bag and you go in the bathroom and— yeah, but it works. Works every time. Uh, never backfired.

I like it.

Um, so are you traveling a lot for your job also?

Decent amount. Yeah, yeah, I try not to, but I'll end up speaking at 10 or 15 events a year. I mean, we've got a speaking team, so we'll speak at 50 to 70 events a year, but most of the time it's the team. And then, I'll go to the big ones.

Yeah. How much of that routine like the napping and the Miracle Morning stuff and cold plunging or anything else do you try to maintain some semblance of on the road?

I would say, I don't know, maybe 60% of it. The nap for sure. I mean, no matter where I'm at, The nap is the non-negotiable. Now, when I'm speaking, the big thing for me is peak energy. And so I try to always speak in the morning. I will almost never eat before I speak because that brings my energy down.

When you say morning, are you like 8, 9, 10? Do you know how early you want to be on stage? Preferably.

I mean, yeah, definitely before 11 if I can. Now, it gets a little weird if I have to do it in the afternoon because then I try not to eat before. So then there might be some VIP lunch or something. You're kind of steering that back.

100%.

So then maybe I'll try to push some things because I just, as much as, unless, sure, I'll have an, if I'm speaking at like 2 or 3, sure, I'll do a normal morning and then I will have, I will eat and I will have a nap. And then, yeah.

All right.

And then you go speak.

That's funny. We're so similar. Yeah. Like if I'm asked to speak somewhere, I usually tell people prime time for me, put me on stage somewhere between 10 and 1. So you're done before lunch. 10 allows me to like get up, get the sleep I need. A lot of times these events have like evening parties or whatever. And so I'm not gonna get up at 5:00 AM. And then get a workout in, you know, be fresh, get down, give the talk. And like the food thing, I'll do like a light meal or I'll do like some ketones or amino acids.

Sure.

Yeah. But very, very similar for me. It's like empty stomach, get some movement in, get a good night of sleep. And obviously sometimes they can't accommodate that where you're speaking, but yeah. Yeah, perfect, perfect scenario.

That's the perfect setup. Um, otherwise you got a coffee nap or something.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Gary Brecka talks about too. He's big in like the human physiology and, and, you know, biomechanics and health space. And, you know, when he's traveling— and this is relevant to anybody even if they're not like a speaker or whatever— like, he, he tries to set up the schedule so that no matter what kind of meeting is happening during the day, he is able to get his morning routine and his workout in prior to that meeting.

Mm-hmm.

So like, my team knows, like, anytime I'm traveling Like podcasts, um, you know, meetups, meetings, Zoom calls, whatever. It's fine to schedule any of that stuff, uh, even without, you know, running time by me, as long as it's after 10. 10 AM is like— before then, it's all protected. And it makes life so much better, especially when you're traveling. Like, when you get up and you don't have to be rushed, and you know you can get your training in.

Do you do the same at home? At home, typically it's about 9:30 8 to 10 is your kind of— yeah, we are very similar because for me it's, it's 8 to 10, no meetings before 10 PM is kind of— or 10 AM is kind of my thing because that's prime time. Yeah, I mean, unless it, unless it is on my number one thing. So I've got, hey, okay, this is— maybe I'm on a podcast tour or I'm doing something, it's like, okay, we'll get it, and then sure. But other than that, no, you got to protect that sacred time. And then—

Yeah, yeah, a lot of people like, well, if you don't start work till 10 and you're doing a nap, like Are you actually working during the day? But if you think about it, so let's say you're starting work at like 9:45 or whatever. I don't know about you, but like once it starts, like I am not like water cooler chatting.

No, like not at all.

I am like horse with blinders. If you come up and talk to me during that time, I'm likely going to totally ignore you.

Yeah.

I'm not an asshole to my family members because I have a home office, but yes, I'm pretty guarded with that time.

Right.

Lunch, Same thing. Like, I will have lunch, but I'm, I'm doing stuff. Yeah, 100%. And then there's a nap, and then as soon as the nap is done, it's like just more work, work, work all the way until dinner time. I think a lot of people just like, like when they're at work, they don't actually work.

No.

If you actually do, you can afford like a morning routine.

Yes.

And even like an afternoon siesta. Uh, I feel like we're having like a kids these days discussion. Like, yeah, it's like people just don't work. Hard during the time that they do have.

I'm of the same opinion. I mean, it's been very eye-opening to actually start working with people in an office. Yeah, it's like this is you almost realize some of your weird tendencies because I when you're describing we are very very similar and it was you kind of feel like you're being a dick all the time because I remember when I worked from home, I just tell my wife or whoever or you got a mailman or contractors coming to the door. It's like hey, I know it looks like I'm at home. I'm actually not home right now. Yeah, I'm at work.

Yeah, so I'm not here.

Yeah, that that's.

That has happened to me with contractors literally looking in the window and seeing that I'm home, and they text me and they're like, so is this a good time for us to, you know, meet up on projects? I'm like, no, I'm working.

Yeah, I'm actually not home.

And they can literally like see me inside, like whatever, in my boxers on a Zoom call or whatever. I'm like, you don't understand, like this is a highly protected time for me.

Yes.

And it sounds like it's very rigid and unforgiving, but I think being protective of that It's very similar to the gym, right? Like, there are so many people that hit the gym and they're just like dicking around on their phone for 3 minutes in between sets. I'm like, you can get double the amount of work done or be done in half the time. Like, if instead of like scrolling through Instagram after a set of bench press, like, go do your planks, go do your crunches, whatever, do some core work, come back, bench press, bench press. Like, compress it all together. Yeah. But yeah, time wasting in general, I don't know about you, but like, it's, it's, it's one of the most annoying things for me.

We're very And I think we probably share a similar methodology or kind of mantra, which is just, I'm all in and I'm all out. Like, if I'm at work, I am at work and I am not doing anything else. But then also, if I'm not at work, I am not at work. So I don't have Slack, Asana on my phone. I'm not tethered to email. I don't even have email on my phone. I don't even really check it.

You don't even have email on your phone at all?

I mean, I technically do, but I—

You could if you had to.

It's probably been 3 months since I've checked my email. Maybe longer. Uh, I just don't—

How do you know the, the content of email that people are sending to you? Do you have like an assistant who—

Assistant, yeah.

Debriefs you?

She kind of just handles it.

Yeah.

I don't— yeah, I don't really— I don't know. I, I'm probably missing opportunities, but in just my mind, like—

Well, I mean, like, what if I sent you an email and it was like, hey Chandler, you know, whatever, this is super important. I got us a reservation at the best place in town. 7 PM tonight, you're in. I just need a quick reply from you. Like, if you're assisting, gonna like text you or whatever and be like, hey.

Oh, she'll just Slack me or put it on my calendar.

Okay.

Or like, hey, you got this from Ben, like, are you in? Cool, I'll put it on your calendar. Like, she'll just coordinate that kind of stuff.

And usually that's like a text?

Um, Slack. Yeah. So, because similar to you actually, or maybe, maybe we have different workflows, but for me, when I show up at this office, within a 500-foot radius, It just turns my phone into work mode.

Yeah.

So then I don't get any notifications unless it's from my wife, and then I just put my phone over here. And so I'm not— and I don't have texts on my computer either. So I'm just like, when I am at work, Slack, because the people who have access to me are the people who need access to me when I'm at work, which is Slack. So in that instance, my assistant would just Slack me because I'm there. So if people are texting me during work, like, I'll batch look at it. Yeah, every couple hours or something. But I mean, it's not like I'm tethered to it and it's on my computer or whatever else. And so I'm just kind of locked into that zone. But then for everything else, for her, for email, she'll just get it to the right person. So if someone's like, hey, let's do some partnership stuff, it's like, oh hey, this is Chandler's assistant. I got to it before he could. Let me loop you in with Pedro and we'll talk about that. Or just kind of—

Yeah, the part about the 500 square feet, so you can like— do you do like a Like a location-specific disabling of apps? Uh, or notifications?

Yes, of notifications. Yes. Yeah, it's kind of crazy. I mean, it's like, I had no clue. So you, you know, like when you swipe down and you look at the Do Not Disturb or whatever, there's a, there's a work mode.

Yeah.

And so that you can just say until I leave this location, and then you can just program it in your settings.

Oh, that's sick. And so then for me, it's just, and then you can choose the people who, you know, so Yeah, for me it's like, yeah, I do that occasionally for sleep because my phone's in airplane mode typically, or at least, you know, from the time I go to bed to at least an hour after I get up. But there is like, if I know something's happening, or like let's say my sons are on a trip away from home and I know like if shit hits the fan, like I might need to help them with like a flight change or something like that.

Yeah.

Like sleep mode, you can literally put it in sleep mode, notifications disabled, And then like only allow a phone call from said River Greenfield or Aaron Greenfield, which is pretty cool. Yeah, I love that. And I think a lot of people don't realize like how versatile the Do Not Disturb function is.

Technology is more advanced than most people's thinking of how to use it. It's like, just like you're saying, just change a couple settings and then you don't have to be a default yes to the stimulus, which I think I know you're a big proponent of. I am too. I think so many people just default yes everything. They default yes every notification. They default yes to all of this stimuli. And then, you wonder why at the end of every day you're just so fried. Well, it's because of decision fatigue. You've got a limited willpower.

And, you train everyone who is pinging you with notifications that response time is X. And, if it's quick, they begin to rely on that and begin to think something's wrong if you don't. The communication medium that I tend to use a lot to avoid phone calls is an app called Boxer. You hear this one?

Yeah.

Asynchronous communications, like a walkie-talkie, and it saves me probably like at least 5 or 6 phone calls a day because rather than getting on a call, people just leave me a quick audio.

Yeah.

What's, what's your, your time management method when it comes to—

Communication?

The inevitable email or text that says like, yeah, can we That's really tough.

I, because I'm a people pleaser, but I also care a lot about wasting time and I don't want to waste time. And so for me, I'm kind of a default no. I'm a default no to coffees, to lunches, to quick calls, to whatever else. So I've had to try to learn how to tactfully redirect through, oh, hey, let me connect you with with my right-hand guy and they'll chat about that or whatever else. So I just kind of try to offload that. Or I've got a thing, this is more for internal employees, but it's basically a communication guidelines document.

Yeah.

It's like, hey, this is how to communicate with me. Communicate with me in writing. Don't hop on a quick call. If you need a decision, send something in writing ahead of time. If we even need a call, you know, it's just like stuff like that to try and teach people the preference. Because I think in the absence of communicating your preference, People will just throw their preference on you.

And so that's where even with Voxer and stuff like that, that works for them.

Yeah. And so that's why this kind of seemed— I don't know, this is, uh, people probably won't like this, but I'm a big fan of Voxer, or not necessarily Voxer, I just use voice, um, like voice memos, but one way.

Yeah.

Because I know if I send you a voice memo, it's gonna be a minute or 2 and it's gonna be punchy.

Yeah.

And nothing pisses me off more than someone sending me a 5-minute That's why Voxer's good, you can 4x it. Oh, that's nice. That's nice.

Like, if you're in meetings, you can transcribe it too. So if somebody leaves you like a 5-minute Voxer and I'm in a meeting and I just want to read it and not listen to it, literally.

That's nice.

And then with calls, I'm very similar. And I find myself a lot more these days when people ask for a quick call, I literally say, I don't do calls anymore. Just fill me in via email. Because it's where, like, I can read through, process, and think about and respond to an email. Yeah, way faster than, like, again, not to be an asshole, I'm sure you feel like this sometimes too.

100%.

Yeah. Like, there's a, hey, how are you? How's life? Blah, blah, blah. We've only gone like 2 minutes into the call, there's nothing that's happened, and it takes 2 minutes to get off the call.

Yeah.

And you actually have to schedule it, and it's just this giant whiplash effect. Like, I It's not that I don't do calls because I actually do sometimes, but my gut reply is typically like, I just don't.

I'm the same way.

It's like, it's like in health, right? Like if you just say, I don't do dessert.

Yes.

Sometimes you do. So identify with being that person. Yeah.

I would never identify with that person. I love dessert. But I, yeah, I mean, I'm kind of a similar way with communication stuff. Just default no, default send it to me in text because, and I think this is the important thing for people to hear. If you choose to do that. Again, you don't have to be a default yes to everyone's request. You don't even have to reply, which that was a weird one for me. I've got probably, I don't know, 500 unread text messages. And early on when the business started taking off, I realized that there's this book I love, a guy here in Austin, actually, Jay Papasan, The One Thing. And he talks about fear of—

Gary Keller was The One Thing.

It's the two of them. So basically Gary Keller, Jay He wrote the book.

Okay.

Um, and, and they work together with, um, uh, at, uh, Keller Williams. But he, he talks about the Four Horsemen or like the four sabotagers of success.

Yeah.

And one of them is the fear of chaos. And I realized that was totally me. And, and because what would happen is things would start getting busy, there would be chaos, and then I would slow down how fast I was moving things forward because I felt like I had to calm the chaos, AKA I have to have zero unread text messages.

Right.

That was the story that I was telling myself. I have to respond to everybody. And then eventually I just said, hey, this is not serving me. People do not— it's like I was a default yes to I have to respond to people. And I realized that you can just be a default no. You can just— yeah.

Have you ever looked into this? And I don't know if this is possible. I haven't found a solution for this yet, but it's pretty easy to outsource to an executive assistant. Most notification-based apps like Slack, Asana, um, Boxer, maybe not a little bit, email definitely. With text messages, have you figured out a way to actually like give someone access to your text messages? Maybe not a few people who you don't want them— yeah, I mean like let's say your wife— and literally have someone fielding texts for you without them actually having your phone?

Yeah, I mean there's definitely a way. It's on your computer through iMessage. You can just have them log into your iMessage. Yeah, but that's true. That's a weird one for me because I've been on the other end of that and it pissed me off. Like, I was texting someone and then they're like, hey, it was like clearly an assistant. And then I'm like, but what are they pretending to be the person and they're clearly an assistant?

Or it was just murky?

It was a little murky. And then it was this person who I'm like, well, hey, I don't have any other way to communicate with you. And now the last way that I can communicate with you is even not you. I was like, what's going on here, dude? I'm like, how do I reach this guy?

You have like a VIP list that you can't actually get through. But that's the one that, because for me, like, if I, like, I like to hunt and sometimes, like, if I go hunting, I'm just like gone for a week and I put somebody on the email inbox and I can, yeah, you know, I was supposed to be taking care of Slack, but it's like the text messages are still the thing that no matter what, when you come out of the wilderness, it's like, yeah, all right, there's 500 and I don't know which ones are important. So now I have to just like go check them all out.

I'm not, I'm not saying it's like a blanket no. I think if you're tactful with it, 100%. And you can, but what I have found, which is kind of interesting, is, uh, with Claude, you can connect your texts. And so for me, a big use case, I don't know I don't know if this is the same for you. We do a lot of business development.

Right.

So it's partnerships, it's speaking, it's all that stuff. And so we have these podcasts that we're trying to get on or stages that we're trying to book. And I've got my whole team that's doing that. And that'll maybe be a $6 or $7 million arm of the company this year. Then over here, I am texting with people who could easily open doors over here, but then I just will either forget or it's just, you know, so we, I'm not connecting the dots.

Right.

down is I just have Claude review my text and then send a weekly report. Or you could do this on any cadence. Like, you could even do this to your assistant of, hey, there's a daily cadence. Like, say you're in the woods, like, hey, here's all the texts that Ben got. Yeah, can you reach out to them? Being— anyways, there's like— for me, the use case is review this and then connect the dots over here.

It's a good idea because a lot of times those same texts would have an email associated with them if they had access to Like I use Contacts Plus, for example, for contacts management software with the Claude. And is it, is it like a Claude iMessage? Yeah. And so you would just like go into connectors in Claude.

Exactly.

That appears as an option.

It is an option.

And then you connect it and that could send you like a daily digest.

It could. Yeah.

And someone—

The use case that is for me is there's a weekly roundup of like partnership stuff that we're doing. Yeah. And then it'll, and it sends this in Slack to my business development team. And then it'll say, oh, hey Chandler, you were texting Ben Greenfield. Well, Ben Greenfield has been on Chris Williamson's podcast. You're trying to get on Chris Williamson's podcast. Here's the text that you could send to whatever. And so it just like, it'll go a level deeper of like, hey, who are all the contacts? And then it'll tie that to these partnerships that we're doing. And then it'll say, oh, Oh, by the way, Dean Graziosi was on Lewis Howell's podcast 4 times. You should probably reach out to him this week and ask him whatever. And you were just texting with him.

Yeah, he's kind of like a 6 degrees of separation type of decoder. There's, do you know Dan Martell?

Very well.

Yeah, he does some good stuff, especially in the AI world now, and has incubated a lot of companies in that space. And one of them is, I'm gonna blank, it's either Social Sweep or Social Swell.

It's Social Sweep.

Yeah. That can actually pull in and I have it. I don't use it. My team uses it, but it will pull in all of your connections, like your contact list, your Rolodex, everybody who follows you on Instagram, Facebook, X. And they're like, you can technically import, you have to export your LinkedIn connections and import them as an Excel file. So it's a little wonky, but then once you get all of that imported, you can then query it and be like, hey, like, I'm traveling to Dallas. Who—

yeah, totally—

are the top 10 people in Dallas who specialize in— or let's see, who have a health and fitness podcast who might be likely to want to interview me? Or, um, you know, or who owns a biohacking recovery facility I could reach out to? Yeah, so I can get a good nap in a hyperbaric chamber or whatever. And it will go through and just like scrape everything.

That is super smart.

Who are following you on Instagram, who are notable.

We gotta do that.

Connected to or could be connected to because there's like one degree of separation. And I think, I don't think it's inexpensive. I think the software is like close to $10K, but as far as like being able to—

Your value.

All of that for you, like that relationship mechanism.

I remember I was up in Kelowna in his office, I think when they were in early development on this and he was showing me it. And I'm like, this is crazy. But so is this how you— is this how you remember to invite me to your documentary?

Probably, because—

Because I was saying, I'm thinking, I'm like, wow, how did he remember that I live in Austin?

So Contacts Plus is what I used for the longest time until we got Social Sweep. Is it Social Sweep or is it Social Swell?

I think it's Social Sweep.

Okay, yeah. So until I started using Social Sweep, or until we got access to Social sweep like maybe 5 months ago, I would use Contacts Plus because that pulls in my whole Rolodex and then I can search by tagged city. What Contacts Plus is missing though is anybody on Instagram or X or Facebook who you might not even have a connection to, but there's a couple degrees of separation away or whatever, or they already follow you but you wouldn't know that. Although you have the ability to reach out to them, they're, they're technically a warm lead if they follow you, probably.

Yes.

Like, yes, would be an example. Like, like Tony Robbins, for example. Like, I, I reached out to him and actually got through to his team and, and invited him out to one of the shows. I didn't even know that he follows me on Instagram. Yeah. And so, but Social Swatch like pulled him up as one of the people. I'm like, oh, like, that's a good one.

Yeah.

For you, what probably happened with Social Sweep is I know we did like a by-city tag search, so you probably came up on the, on the If you and I have ever been connected via phone or via Instagram or whatever.

And how does it do that?

Uh, well, once you—

like, are you manually tagging or it's auto-tagging?

It's got a game database. Um, all of my contacts are typically tagged when I put them into my phone. I don't know if Social Sweep is smart enough to also do it by area code if they're not tagged, right? And then I'm not sure what kind of mechanism, whatever AI back engine that they're using, is doing as far as Instagram goes. It feels very basic because Instagram, obviously you're able to share location, but—

Especially LinkedIn. LinkedIn is the place I look if I want to find out where someone lives because it's right there. And so it feels pretty basic to just connection map and say, all right, I've got Chandler's phone number. Let me go look through his LinkedIn. Okay, now Let me tag his phone number according to the city that it says that he lives in.

And yeah, before that, I mean, like, the way that I would manage, um, relationship capital and whatever influencers, Rolodex or whatever, is I had a giant spreadsheet and it was categorized by— yes, medical clinics, doctors, health, fitness. Uh, you know, when I did a parenting book, we did a parenting list and like a spiritual faith list. But you just basically have all your influencers on a spreadsheet that's managed. And now Like, I don't need that because AI can pull that and also constantly update it and then import all the contacts from my phone. So that's what we use now.

Cool.

Yeah. Yeah. Which is, I mean, it's—

We're nerding out on stuff that I feel like—

Yeah. Like, I think relationship capital though is so—

Really is. Agreed.

So underplayed. Like, like my, my contacts list on my phone is probably as valuable as any bank account. But as far as being able to look up anybody in the city and call and ask for a connection to somebody or get on a podcast or whatever, it's seamless.

It's really difficult and time-consuming. I'm realizing this as we've got our Dream 100. We're doing our kind of starting to really— I'm starting to— we'll talk about this on my show, but I'm starting to get GoPro in the media world. And so as we're doing media tours and going to cities, I'm like, Man, this is a lot of work just to find the people in the podcast in that specific city and connect the dots to them. So I'm starting to realize, okay, I need to find tools like this.

Some people book like 3 months ahead.

100%.

I'm not gonna like dox him, but there's one guy in town here that I'm doing a podcast with, and he will literally be texting me like 5 hours before the podcast starts and be like, okay, so let's do it at this time. And then this is just the way this guy It's just very Type B. And like, I know I'll do a show, I know I'll do it that day, but I don't know if it'll be 5 or 6 or 7 or— decides to do it.

So, um, no, I'm not trying to guess.

Yeah, it's still— yeah. Uh, in the, in the, uh, comedy world.

Okay.

That would be, that would be his niche, which is common with that whole— yeah, like, yeah, with the business marketing crew, like, they're booking 6 months ahead. BenGreenfieldLife.com/Bolt is where I'm going to link to all the stuff you're doing, your socials. Anything else new that you're working on that you want people to know about?

We're building up media. So, if they want to learn book stuff, selfpublishing.com, Instagram, YouTube, that content there, building out the personal brand. I have an Instagram for the first time as of 9 months ago or so, selfpublishing— or that's Chandler Bull, and then YouTube. And then they can go to selfpublishing.com/Ben if they want to check out book stuff. If they're thinking about— We made one for you. So if they're working on a book and want our help, then that's kind of what— that's the place to go. Cool.

I think a lot of people are working on a book who could want some help. All right, so that's going to be at bengreenforlife.com/BullChandler. Dude, thanks for doing this.

Appreciate it, man.

This was fun. Free access to comprehensive shownotes, my weekly roundup newsletter, cutting-edge research and articles, top recommendations from me for everything that you need to hack your life, and a whole lot more, check out BenGreenfieldLife.com. It's all there, BenGreenfieldLife.com. See you over there. Most of you who listen don't subscribe, like, or rate this show. If you're one of those people who do, then Again, huge thank you. But, here's why it's important to subscribe, like, and/or rate this show. If you do that, that means we get more eyeballs, we get higher rankings, and the bigger the Ben Greenfield Life show gets, the bigger and better the guests get and the better the content I'm able to deliver to you. So, hit subscribe, leave a ranking, leave a review if you got a little extra time. It means way more than you might think. Thank you so much. Thank you, Ben. Thank you so much. Thank you.