Can a Necklace or Pendant REALLY Provide EMF Protection?! What Makes A Good EMF Device?

There's a simple experiment a lot of people can do at home where they can just take a little LED bulb, you just put them in the back of your phone, have someone call you, and there's enough energy and electricity to light up the LED just sitting in the air on your phone. Oh, wow. So it doesn't have to be connected anything. And so I usually start there because the average person doesn't understand that we're talking about this amount of energy that has the power to do things just by being in the air.

Your phone is kicking out digital square waves.

Digital square waves. That would be like a pattern like that. Okay.

Doesn't create those. Those are bad for you. The more you get exposed to them, the more you're gonna have problems.

What we do is we defract the emf, the wireless technology that's being transmitted. It defracts it, which means it diffuses it, and then we reproduce it in a new waveform.

Guys, what's up? Welcome to the Greenfield. Compounds have been here. How was the trip?

It was good.

Yeah? Yeah. It's nice to be in the trees.

Yeah. You rolled into Cordelane early, right, Josh?

Yeah.

Have you been over there before?

Yeah, I grew up in the Pacific Northwest.

Well, Eugene.

Eugene, Oregon is where I grew up. I lived in Ellensburg, Washington, though, as well.

Oh, super close. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. But spent some time in Cordelane as well. Just, you know, the lake and whatnot. So the trees are home to me, though.

Yeah, yeah. Sound like an ant. Are you. Are you living in Austin now, though?

Yeah, I live in Austin.

Okay. All right, cool, cool. How about you, Nick? You. You said Santa Barbara?

Santa Barbara, Yeah. I live in the Eastern Sierra, California by Mammoth Lakes. For around 20 years.

Yeah.

But now Santa Barbara, California.

Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Well, I've been stoked about having you guys up because I get so many questions about this whole like, EMF protection, mitigation, harmonization, modulation thing. So I figured we'd put on our tinfoil hats here and geek out for people listening. All the shownotes are going to be@BenGreenfieldLife.com EMFPod that's BenGreenfieldLife.com EMFPOD if you're watching the video version.

Josh and Nick, I don't know how clutch you were in the development of these things. We can talk about that later on if you want. But I've got these airstech devices. I got a necklace, I got pad. I got this thing that I put in my phone and these guys introduced me to These and I get so many questions from you guys listening in, especially about this necklace, that I thought I would just take a deep dive finally and have have you guys explain all this to me now. Josh is actually the CEO of Ares Tech and has done a ton of growth, marketing and e commerce branding for a lot of different companies. I have in front of me here Paxon, NordicTrack7For All Mankind and Ancestry.com, big background in entrepreneurship. And then Nick, Josh was bragging on you, but I'll let you brag a little bit more. You're unique in the EEG space, like both hardware and software. Tell me about that.

Correct. Yeah. I'm the CEO of Neurofield Incorporated. We build EEG devices, EMF devices, cranial electric devices, photobiomodulation devices, and we write all the software for that for clinical use and for peak performance and stuff like that.

And so for people who aren't familiar with an eeg, give me the overview.

Electroencephalogram. So basically what we're doing is we're measuring the tiny little electrical fields or signals that are coming out of your brain. And so we put a cap on your head and we can measure anywhere from 19 to 37 channels of data in real time. And then we can take that data, we can quantify it, use machine learning, create like a three dimensional image of your brain and figure out where those electrical sources are in the brain, how they're firing, where they're not firing. And then we can like physical therapy, basically rehabilitate the brain.

Yeah. Do you know Andrew Hill at Peak Brain? I do. I went down, I took my kids down there too. We did like a week of neurofeedback training down there. And it was incredible. Like I had areas of my brain that on my pre EEG were lit up for distractibility, adhd, like tendencies. You know, walk into a cocktail party and hear like 10 conversations at once and being able to focus on one conversation, that was me. And after just a week of training and a remapping of the brain showed this. Everything was dialed in like the alpha beta brainwave ratios. I don't remember all the different things that they measured.

Right.

But it was actually pretty incredible. You can kind of like weight train the brain into a different electrical state, correct?

Yeah. We have a clinic in Santa Barbara called Neurofeed Neurotherapy and my wife, who's Dr. Thompson, she's a neuroscientist as well. And we provide the same kind of services for peak performance, but also with people with clinical Issues like depression, anxiety, traumatic brain injury, stuff like that.

Yeah, yeah. One thing, I think I even asked Dr. Hill this when I had him on the show, but this was like four years ago. It's clunky. Like all the gel and the cap and the hardware and all the things that go into an eeg. How come there's not just like just a way to put on a baseball cap and measure it with a signal sent to your phone yet?

Right, right. It's because you're measuring tiny, tiny electrical signals, I mean down to the microvolt level, which is like a millionth of a volt. And so you have to have an amplifier that is very pristine that can do that. And in order to attach an electrode to the skin and not have a lot of resistance, a lot of noise. That's the trick. So people have made what are called dry leads, but they have like 100 kilo ohm resistance and they can be really noisy.

Yeah. Is that like the Sensei device? That one I showed you in my office? I mean, I like it. I just don't know how it compares to like a clinical grade.

They're interesting and they do have clinical utility. But when you're looking at it from a research perspective and you want to look at some of the really tiniest electrical signals in the brain, like gamma activity. Yeah, that's really important for peak performance. You want to see how a brain is producing gamma and how the hub systems in the brain are actually communicating with each other. And gamma's the messenger. And with some of these dry electrode systems, they're so noisy. Listening to the gamma is kind of like listening to somebody whisper in front of a loudspeaker at a Metallica concert. And so it's not going to be easy.

That's why you need the more complex placement of the electrodes, the gas gel. You're trying to pick up very, very small signals.

Yeah. But the technology has improved. Like our amplifier is really small. It's an FDA cleared amplifier as a medical eeg. And so now the components and everything have really shrunk down considerably over the last 20 years.

Yeah, that one's called the neurofilled Neurofeed one you developed. One other question about the neurofeedback piece is to actually see results. Like I did a week at the Peak Brain in LA and I felt pretty good after that. Do people do it as like a one and done. You know, other people go to the. What's the one that Dave Asprey has made popular? The 40 years is 40 years. Is that if you do it once, are you kind of good? Or is it like marathon training or something like that, where if you stop running, you're eventually going to lose it?

Well, neurofeedback is one flavor of brain performance. Another is neurostimulation, which I favor. Okay. And my company makes three different kinds of neurostimulation devices. The reason why we like them better than neurofeedback is that as soon as you turn them on, your brain starts to entrain and learn what you want it to learn. Basically, with neurofeedback, you have to wait for the brain to do what you want it to do, then you reward it with some kind of stimulus, like video or auditory or something like that. And so it takes time to get the result. Neurostimulation is exponentially faster. At the end of the day, though, it's all like going to the gym. You have to do a series of them in order to get strong, and then you have to do maintenance to maintain it.

Yeah. Okay. So you technically would be going back for repeat visits in an ideal scenario?

Well, for peak performance, yeah. I mean, when I get pro athletes that come in that want to do this, we can really tune them to a very, very high degree. Keep them there right before they're going to perform, they do their thing, and then they might take, like, a month off and come back and start again. Yeah, but that's different than, you know, if you take somebody that has depression or has a head injury, you can help rehabilitate them to where they reach a nominal level of performance, where they're good to go and they stay right there.

Yeah.

Barring any other insulin.

And then if they want to plug in a no kung fu like the Matrix, they proceed. You've done it before, Josh, you done neurofeedback?

I have not. I always think that because the video that we did with him two years ago, people think that we have this, like, this relationship. And this is why I thought it was good to have him on the show with us, is this is only the third time I've met him in person. Now, we've had some conversations like that, but it was a wild course of events that led us to the first meeting, which was we were working with another neurotherapy neuroscientist out of Canada, and we wanted to capture, recreate what we'd already done in the lab. So we've sent you a pile of research. You've looked at it, but we've done. We've been working with EEG and our product and understanding the brain and its response for a really long time. And so I, as a marketer, was thinking, okay, how can we tell this story? Well, let's just show it. If we can really show it in real time, that's a powerful story because then you can show how the phone actually has. Creates a response in your brain. You can interpret how you want, but it typically looks like it's a bad response. And then we can then show that go away using the technology. So we had kind of planned this out with another scientist out in Canada who then couldn't show up to la. It was during COVID I think it.

Was during COVID Yeah.

He couldn't come into the US and so he referred us to Dr. Dogras and Dr. Dogris. Rolled up to the studio where we were doing this recording. Never met him. Rolls out, looks like a rock star.

And I'm like, you were ready for a polite, groomed Canadian.

Yeah, exactly. I had no idea what to expect. And so we had, like, one conversation before that. And just kind of. I told him the setup. Here's what we're looking to do. Here's what we're looking to create. And that video now has been seen probably close to 100 million people across the globe. And he's become like this. People recognize him from that video that we did because it has just blown up. But I always like to tell people, like, look, I didn't know what to expect. He knew he was gonna come and do this thing, and he was hopefully create these results that I was hoping for. And then obviously we did. And so that became really popular for us.

Yeah, I was blind. I had no idea what was happening there. Which actually made it better because.

Yeah. Tell me about the video.

So the video we did was.

We work with VaynerMedia, and most people know Gary Van. Gary Vanichuk. Yeah. And so this is his media company. And so we did this kind of highly produced demonstration in real time of, like, again, what does the phone do to your brain? And then also looking at the neutralizing effect of the Ares product. And we used four different test subjects. Two women, two young men. And there was some cool footage in there because they showed us in real time how much phone time they had every day. And some of them had some crazy numbers.

You mean you pulled up screen time?

Yeah, you pulled up screen time. And the gentleman had, like, 19 hours or something. He was a student. They were kind of surprised. They were kind of surprised.

I always wonder how accurate that is. Cause does it count? Like, when apps are running in the background, is there some kind of facial recognition technology? Because I have apps all the time right in the background. And does it count as screen time if I'm listening to an audiobook?

Truth is, I don't even know. Cause I'm the same way. Like, my maps will run all the time. Like, is that counting me? You know, So I don't know. But it was still staggering to think that your phone was really, let's say, sending and receiving signals the whole time. So whether or not, whatever it is, your phone is still active. And.

Yeah. Even if it's an airplane mode.

Even if you guys know that, like.

A lot of people go airplane mode and now there's programs like one tap, zap, there's another one. It's just like a shortcut. I have it on my phone that you press sleep. And it not only disable, it only puts it in airplane mode, but disables wi fi and Bluetooth, which sometimes putting it in airplane mode doesn't do. Disables location services, which is another huge one that people don't realize even if the phone's in airplane mode is still sending a signal and then sucks all the blue light out and turns the screen red. So, yeah, you gotta do more than just put it in airplane mode.

You really do. You really do. So the point is, regardless, anyway, so we got some great reactions from them. And then we just did a couple different variations of this test where we could get a baseline from everybody.

Baseline, eeg.

Baseline, eeg. And then we would have them talk on the phone for 2 minutes, 5 minutes, 7. It was just a variation of. I can't even remember how it was. They received.

So they received. We did the baseline with no nothing on no phone.

Nothing.

And then. And then we had them hold the phone.

You mean baseline eeg In a room that was just like, sucked free of emf?

No, no, not necessarily.

No, no, no.

To keep the condition stable.

Like an everyday condition. Yeah.

Okay.

So we did the same. So we're in the studio filming this. Right, Right. And so.

But they did. They weren't using their phone. They weren't using their phone during the baseline.

During the baseline. So it was the same. That would keep the level consistent. Right. And so. And so they're getting. Whatever they're getting hit with. They're getting hit with. But no phone in the hand.

Right.

And then we put the phone in the hand and we called it. So now the phone's live and we just had Them hold it close to.

Their head for, you know, and no talking. Nothing was coming through the microphone.

No earbuds, no wired headphones. They're just holding up to their head.

Just holding up to their head and. And then took away the phone and then record EEG again.

Yeah.

Okay. You can't record it and have it live at the same time. It would, it would contaminate the record.

But they were wearing the cap and everything when you're talking on the phone. So you can just start the EEG right away as soon as you put the phone down.

Yeah, yeah. Well, we waited, I think we waited like 2 minutes, 3 minutes.

We did a whole variation. This was probably a 15 hour day.

Yeah.

So it was a lot of variations and it was two years ago. But the point, the point of it was, is we tried to recreate, create normal. We had a VR headset on one guy who.

And so that was funky.

Yeah, we did all kinds of things just to kind of test and keep in mind, like we knew we weren't constructing like a peer reviewed study that we're going to send out. We weren't doing that. We were just simply creating a demonstration of studies that we had already done in controlled environments and things like that. Because what had become apparent working with his other scientist was he kept telling me, I can recreate these results pretty much all the time with anybody anywhere with your, with your product. And he's like. And that intrigued me. And that's what kind of led us down this path and then connected with Dr. Dover. So I bring that up because since that, that video and the amount of people that have seen it, we do get a lot of questions. And I think you've got people have contacted you and said, hey, what's going. And so he hasn't been in around the product other than what I've introduced him to. And in his reaction in real time in the studio was what I was remember, which was like. He's like. I remember. He's like, wow, there's this cooling effect. And that word has always haunted us.

That that was a cooling effect.

Well, so it was the wrong word.

It was the wrong word.

So what happened was, is that. So we had the condition where the phone was on.

Right.

We recorded that and then waited and then, you know, compared the two conditions. What, you know, where you didn't have anything on. And anyway, so the absolute power in the brain is what we measure. Okay. So it's kind of like measuring voltage out of a wall. And we're looking at the Brain in different frequency bands from delta, theta, alpha, beta, high beta. And then we're looking at norm referencing. All right, so basically what I was looking at was, was there an absolute power change, and in what frequency band did it happen in? And what happened was, is that when they had the phone up by their head without any Aries on it, any. Any Aries protection on the phone, the amount of beta and high beta went up to, like, three standard.

Okay. So when. When they didn't have. So, like, this is the one that I. So I have a. I have a defender shield case, but then I keep this in the little credit card pocket.

Yeah.

Of the Defender showcase. I have in my office downstairs. This big one in front of my laptop. And then I wear this one.

Yeah.

And so you guys were using this one.

We actually used a variety of. We put one on the phone, on the VR. We put one on her purse. And really the differences between them is just the sensitivity and then the reproduction of a biotropic field. So we can talk more about kind of how it works.

Yeah, we'll get into that.

The larger the silicon resonator, the semiconductor in the center, the more sensitive it is. And so the further away from the source it can be. And then so the smaller it is, which is like the one you stick to the phone because it's right on the phone. And all the antennas, it can be closer, so it can be smaller. Okay, Right. So that's really the only difference.

There's one other piece. So one condition where the phone was live and no protection. Right. Then we had another condition where the phone was live and it had ARES protection. Okay. So the first condition was, no, you know, there's nothing there. And what surprised me was, like, when we looked at the eeg, the beta and high beta had gone up to the three standard deviations above the norm.

Without the arrows protection.

Without the arrows on. With the phone on. So now you're thinking, okay, so the brain's responding to this. And then we put the airways protection on the phone, and then we called the phone again, and we exposed the person and then took another recording after the fact there. And what we found was that the beta actually went back down. So when I said cooling, in effect, that was the wrong word. What it meant was the absolute power in beta and high beta went down into normal levels where there was protection on the phone.

Yeah. Did you guys ever try, like, could the person see whether it was on or off the phone when they were doing the test?

The different. Again, the different. The conditions Were all different. The length of time they were on the phone, the length of time between. We had trend a lot of different variations. And in some of the cases they knew, some cases they didn't.

Yeah.

And the one reason why we like eeg, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but it's difficult to, as an average person to manipulate. And you would see it like if I was to, hey, control. Well, maybe not you, I don't know, Control, alpha wave or like most people don't have a clue of like what's going on. What's the connection? It's subconscious. Yeah.

Unless they're trained meditators.

That's exactly right. Like there's very few people that actually even understand how to do that. So again, I was comfortable doing this demonstration the way that we did it because we have on the website, I know we'll probably talk about the science at some point on this conversation. We had done this in labs and control settings many times. This is a lot of the work that's been peer reviewed that you'll see on our site has been these. Eeg, ekg, looking at the heart, the brain, all of those connected in the same study. So you can see the full connection, you can see the effect the product has. So I was comfortable recreating in this way and had this other scientist who had done dozens of these by the way, and then contacted us later saying he had done dozens of these demonstrations with our product. So that's where I was like, okay, I was comfortable doing this. I knew that this kind of idea of placebo with EEG was probably not something we had to really worry too much about. Again, he can speak to that. But having done this now many times since we, the results haven't changed. Whether somebody knows it's on their phone, not on their phone, it hasn't changed at all.

Okay. So whether they know or don't know, it seems to have an effect. Because that's some of the pushback I get is like, well, you're wearing this super pretty thing, you know, it's supposed to help you. What if it's just full on placebo? And if you were to like wear something, like if we were to take like a square piece of cardboard and paint a pretty holograph on it and not tell me, would it still have the same effect? But you guys are saying that you found in some of your studies, whether it was this video or the studies you did leading up to that, that if somebody doesn't, if somebody's being tested but does not know what they're being tested for, what the condition is, or what this device that they're wearing is supposed to do. You still see some benefit, even if. Even if the person is kind of blinded.

Yeah. And they said in our actual controlled studies, we are controlling for that. In the dozens of demos we've done since. I have not observed in working with Dr. Dogris and others that we've done this with other neuroscientists we've done this with. There hasn't been a difference, but I can't say for sure that that's not possible. You know, that maybe someone's more relaxed because maybe they feel. I don't actually know, but I haven't seen it. But they can't say that doesn't happen. But I know for our studies that we've done, it is controlled, obviously.

I mean, I see an increase in hrv, particularly when I'm working around technology, wearing it or using my phone. And even though I'm. I'm a dummy and I haven't figured out how to do this, I've thought about, well, what if I just, like, try to get something that looks similar and then have my kids, like, mix them up and put one on me and see if I actually notice the difference. To use it as an n equals 1. Like, that's the thing. I constantly wonder.

You could slide it into. Like, this is what I. I put this one in here and I can. It's attaches to my phone.

Right.

That's how I do it. I mean, you could just simply. You would know.

You could just like somebody to, like, tell my kids for a week, like, either. Take it out.

Yeah, take it out.

And don't tell me.

And don't tell me.

Yeah, that's a good point. I should do my own internal test of that because that's one question I get is the placebo. And the other question I get from a lot of people is, well, particularly with the necklace is what is this? And I have a hard time explaining it to them sometimes. Besides, it's a personal protection device for emf, which people get. So let's go through that. Like, what is the actual technology?

Yeah. And you know what's. I would start with the fact that I think sometimes, because we're in this category of EMF protection.

That'S where the product is positioned today. And I think sometimes people want to pull us back into this kind of muddy, murky category of all these products that exist for a long time, whether they're stickers or they're crystals or they're minerals of some sort of.

Right.

And the truth is, is I don't believe that we fit in that category. And the reason why I say that is this is a, this is actually a technology and it's based on proven scientific principles. There's no, there's no, there's nothing about this that science doesn't fully understand. And so what I mean by that is the team that developed this basically took well accepted understood scientific theory, physics principles, stack them together to create a specific outcome. And so what I mean by that is everything about this, how it's built, how it's made, the math of the grooves that are etched into the semiconductor, it's all available on the website. There's a hundred percent transparency on the product.

You mean the blueprint?

The blueprint is all on there. Yeah, the ma. I mean this is a very. Truthfully, it's math is what we're talking about here because we're talking about waves, which is all. We're also math. And so the idea that.

These waves that we're talking about this narrow band of intense frequency.

When you say these waves that we're talking of intense frequencies, you're saying what we would be exposed to say a phone or a WI fi router or something.

Yeah, let's call that the EMF that we're concerned about. Is it really a narrow band that is understood how it's transmitting data and things like that? We understand that. We understand the math. At understands the shape of the wave, how it works. That's all very well known and understood to us average people. We don't know anything about that. Right. Because we all ignored our math classes in school. But we're talking about waves and their shapes and the amplitude, the frequency, the phase, all of that is just well understood math. And so then the way that this product works is the gold lattice that's around it is really acts as an antenna. It's a highly conductive.

The gold lattice around this shiny mirror thing in the middle.

Yes.

Okay.

The lattice there is kind of the start of it, which is a way to. Well, I'll even back up because there's a simple experiment a lot of people can do at home where they can just take a little LED bulb, spread the two little, you know, wires like.

An LED light bulb, a little LED light bulb.

Buy a thousand on Amazon for a dollar. Right. They're super inexpensive. So little electronic components component. Yeah, like a 1 watt or 2 watt.

You can't find any of those around here. We avoid those flicker LED bulbs.

Yeah, exactly.

But I could probably find them.

But you just pull the little leads out, Right. And you can either attach two LEDs together to create a circuit, and they are directional that go in and out of the led. So you'd have to just put it. So that it creates a circuit, and you can just put it on your phone and. Or you can use another little diode that. That controls the loop of the. Of the electricity. You put them in the back of your phone, have someone call you, and there's enough energy and electricity to light up the LED just sitting in the air on your phone.

Oh, wow.

So it doesn't have to be connected anything. And so I usually start there because the average person doesn't understand that we're talking about this amount of energy that has the power to do things just by being in the air.

Right.

And so I start there because then.

It'S kind of a super computer.

You start there because. Because then you say, okay, I understand that that's an LED is a little electrical component that I can put on my phone. And it lights up just from the air. Right. Just from the transmission of data to your phone. And then you realize that what I'm talking about is another electronical component, which is what this is. And so this antenna captures that same energy that's lighting up that bulb, and it controls the. It controls the energy, which is what this. This gold is doing. And it's. The shape is specific. This is a fractal matrix, as it's called. The science word would be fractal matrix.

Okay.

And that controls the energy. Then.

The center is a semiconductor. And if you hold it to the light, you can actually kind of see there's a pattern etched in it. Yeah. That's also a fractal matrix. And so what's a fractal matrix? Fractals are. And you probably know this better than I do, because every time I start talking, keep in mind, I'm. I learn a lot of this stuff on the fly. I'm not a scientist of any sort. I'm a business person. But fractals are basically repeating geometry that have a specific shape. And really, fractals have an infinite statistical ability to.

Recreate.

If you take too much magic mushrooms and close your eyes and listen to music.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Almost like a sacred geometry kind of shape.

It is. And I. I mean, I think there is a lot of. I think there's a lot of similarities to, like, sacred geometry and kind of what we're talking about. I Don't know any of that. I just. Not. I would. I don't. They're separate to me because I only think of. In terms of this. I don't know about that, but I have a lot of people say that because they see the patterns. Yeah, but the reality is we're just talking about fractals. And fractals show up in nature everywhere. They show up in the. In the cells of, like, a leaf or like trees. And they're. They're everywhere around us. And the idea is it allows. The fractals allow for this reproduction of a broader band of frequencies. And so we'll put that over the shelf for right now. But the idea is the shape and the grooves that are etched in the semiconductor. First of all, semiconductor is silicon. And that in itself is an electrical component that has the ability to manipulate energy, which is why it's used in microprocessors and everywhere else. Because it's highly tunable to do. To create a specific outcome. You can change the polarity of waves. You can change, like, there's a lot of things you can do with the silicon. So what we do is we defract this. The emf, the wireless technology that's being transmitted, it diffracts it, which means it diffuses it. And then we reproduce it in a new.

Waveform. And so that's the broader band that we're talking about.

Okay. So this waveform, it's like traveling through the air from my WI fi router, from my phone. And that waveform has a specific amplitude and frequency or a specific shape. And when it hits this, this is somehow changing the nature of that wave.

Yes. And it does so not. Not in a like. Say, a direct way. Meaning, like, the wave, this. This wave exists, hits this, and it comes out the other side different. What is actually happening is the. There's another. There's a field that's being created off the surface of the resonator. And so the resonator is. Is creating a new field. So a third field, you. Your body would be field one, which is made up of multiple fields, really. And then the field that's the data is being transmitted on would be field two. And this would be. Be field three. And so in this third field is where now we talk about superposition, we talk about interference, which is really the basis of how this works, which is the ability to cancel out the waves that we. That we don't want and then amplify waves that we do want. And so what we see in, like, the EEG and other tests that the biofeedback tests that we do is we do see a stimulating effect because we are amplifying the beneficial frequency. And especially, like I would say, in healthy, like, elite athletes, a lot of what I believe we're seeing, and you can, again, jump in any time, but we do see this stimulating effect where we see.

Let'S say, parts of the brain or where they're actually either coming up or they're lowering and there's a normalization occurring. And that often happens just over their baseline numbers. Forget about the phone or what the phone's doing. We see this improve our baseline.

You mean when you're doing a qeeg? Yeah.

And so we see this improvement of baseline. And a lot of that is because the stimulating therapeutic effect of the beneficial frequencies that are being amplified.

What would be an example of, like, a wave that you don't want and a wave that you do want. How does that work?

It's the frequencies. And again, you would note that type.

Of waveforms too important because your phone is kicking out digital square waves.

Digital square waves. That would be like a pattern like that. Okay.

And the body doesn't create those. Those are bad for you. The more you get exposed to them, the more you're gonna have problems.

Why are they bad for you?

Because the body doesn't know what to do with them. It's very disruptive. And so if you introduce a square wave to the body, it can control a biological.

So this is when people are talking about, like, DNA damage, tissue heating, calcium influx into cells. That's all response to square waveform.

Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, a lot of technologies use square wave in order to move, manipulate the body, like ultrasound or repetitive transcranial magnetic stimulation, because it's a reliable.

Way to send packets of information.

Right.

Square wave.

And to be able to measure a response from the body instantaneously. And so it's used in medicine all the time in controlled ways. But a brief exposure is not going to be bad for you. Prolonged exposure is going to be deleterious over time for sure, because the body. The body's going to be in phase. Okay. The brain's going to be in phase. And when the brain is in phase and it's flowing, it's synchronous, then you're healthy, you're running well, and you have access to your capabilities. But when it's out of phase, you're not performing it anywhere near what you're capable of.

Right. And it kind of flies in the face of what you'd Logically expect. Right, because you'd expect some type of predictability order, regular square waveform to be good for the body and the. And then like a more chaotic non square waveform to kind of be chaotic or introduce additional entropy, but it's. It's the opposite.

Yeah, it can. It can be bad for you. Anything at that level of exposure is probably going to be bad for you.

And what would be an example of a good waveform? What's that one look like?

Yeah, sinusoidal waveforms.

Sinusoidal. So that's more of like a parabolic curve.

Yeah, exactly.

Okay.

Yeah, we use that in neurostimulation all the time because the body does create sine waves. The braid is a sine wave generator, basically.

What do you mean you use it in neurostimulation?

So we use cranial electric stimulation to help correct different problems with the brain. For instance, like memory issues. All right, so, right, if I. If I have.

I have a circadian. Fisher Wallace, by the way, like a stimulator for relaxation.

That's a biphasic square wave. Oh, okay. Yeah. No, it's a fish. 15 kilohertz biphasic square wave. That's not what you want to necessarily try. However, it's up to you.

So put it this way. So, like, when you're a kid, right? If we measure theta in your temporal lobe and we measure it in your frontal lobe, and we take those two waveforms and we superimpose them on top of each other, they should have zero difference in phase. They should look like one waveform. As you get older and you expose yourself to different things, then you start to go out of phase. The more out of phase you get, the more you're going to have problems in those regions of the brain talking to each other. Once they achieve, like, 180 degrees antiphase, now you're going to have significant problems like frontotemporal dementia, Alzheimer's, that kind of issue. And so when we do neurostimulation, we bring those areas back into phase. All right, so this is a practice we've been working on for over 20 years now.

Okay.

So when I came across this technology, what's interesting is, is that if you have something that actually can help correct phase in a room, right? It's not going to be disruptive to you. It's going to help your body to do what it knows how to do. Yeah, it's the best doctor in the room.

So what if. Let's say the wave is. Let's say the wave is attacking me from the back. Or like this is like my setup downstairs. Even though I don't have WI fi here, If I were to turn the router on, it would look like this. Like I've got this in front of my computer, but the router's back there. So it's kind of hitting me from the back, isn't it hitting like my body before it gets to this device that I have next to my computer in front of me?

The answer is no. What's happening is.

If there's enough energy being emitted from behind you, there's enough to create this third field that I described, which is actually a three dimensional field field. And that's the way again, that's. This is where, like I said, if you look at the studies on the site, the recent one we did, which was peer reviewed, it was also published research. This one is specifically was on. It's what our patent, our recent patent was based on. It was presented at the International Information Technologies Congress in London just two years ago. The team that did the peer review did the, did this presentation. And the reason why I bring that one up is because there are all these different simulations that you can do around this three dimensional hologram that's then created and that the, the more energy that the ironic part is, the more energy that's being created through these, let's say the negative EMF that we don't want, the bigger and more powerful this field then becomes.

And so because it's almost like a energy vampire, it's like sucking up the actual energy that's in the room.

Yes.

And converting that into the more beneficial waveforms you guys are talking about.

Think of like a hose. Like the more water, the more pressure that's going through it. And I have a nozzle that then changes.

Spreads it out.

Spreads it out.

That makes sense. Is there. Because you know, you hear about, you hear things like you talked about photobiomodulation earlier, like the human beings produce light. I think my dad originally showed this to me how you can take like a GDV camera, gas discharge visually visualization camera, and somehow photograph that light. Do you guys have a way of like showing this field that you're talking about? Like, can you visualize it or measure it?

Somehow this comes up, this comes up pretty regularly. And we have had.

Different ways to visualize it. A lot of people go to like, okay, the EMF reader, they go to the oscilloscope. All these different things that we're. That are, I would say, more common and More accessible. Yeah, those don't tend. EMF readers don't work because you need the external field present that's more powerful. It's going to show up on the EMF reader.

And if I use one of those EMF readers, will it differentiate between the two different waves?

They're not sensitive enough. They're not refined enough. They're looking at specific.

That's my impression. You can't measure a square waveform versus a sinusoidal waveform with an EMF meter.

Yeah, it won't work. And so that's not a great, great test. This oscilloscope's similar in the fact that it doesn't have a broad enough spectrum. And the way that this works, where waves are mixing and the way that interference works, both waves are present and mixing together that you can't isolate each one individually. So there are. There are ways to do it. And we've talked about a few. And some. A lot of our sciences come from Europe and Eastern Europe and around. And it's also.

Some of.

It's a little bit older, so we have better technology than we did when we first. This is actually. This newest generation of this semiconductor is far more powerful than most of what was in our studies, our original version of it. And so this one's actually more powerful. The recent study that we have on there. Yeah, yeah, that's. That's the same one.

And so I want the best.

Yeah, you want the best. We have a new one coming out, though. That's. That's actually twice the sensitivity and power as this one, which I'm super excited about, because I actually wish everyone would have the larger ones. The one on the phone is great because it's so close. That one works.

You mean you wish everyone would have this one? This big one?

Yeah, but. Exactly. Because now I can take that one and. What's on your neck. The future iteration of this will now have the same level of power over that larger one, but you can always have it on you. So to have that always on. Stimulating effect will be so beneficial for so many people.

Yeah, because I'm not going to wear this thing. It looks stupid.

Yeah, exactly. It's too big. Yeah.

Okay, so the idea here is that if the field is in the room, it's adjusting the strength of that field, and then it's producing a biological impact on me. But the field strength isn't necessarily diminished. It's transformed. Am I using the right word? Is it transforms that, what you guys call it? So this is. This is probably the biggest Thing. I mean, this evening, you guys, I think you heard this. This came up in the past couple of months. Somebody was like, well, I don't think the ARIS Tech device works because it's not shown to reduce the field strength. It's only been shown to have a biological impact, and therefore it could just be a placebo effect. But what I'm hearing from you guys is that the premise is incorrect because the goal is not to reduce the field strength.

Exactly. One of the things that the original. One of the original, like, ideas and instructions behind the product was actually for military application. And the Dimitri, who's the founder, his father is actually inventor. And who's Dimitri? Dimitri is the founder of Ares.

Okay.

And so Dimitri and I work together. Dimitri focuses mostly on product, and I do most of the business building and stuff, like the marketing and things like that. Dimitri lives in Canada, lives in Toronto. And his father's the engineer, the scientist behind this, the original kind of creator of it. But the original charge back in the 90s was to create a solution that didn't disrupt satellite communications. And what they were doing in the military, there was these remote missile operator trailers that they were working in, and the teams were. Were having issues with health and staying healthy and staying cognitively sharp.

Yeah.

And they identified that this was from the EMF that they're exposed to. And keep in mind, they're in metal boxes filled with commuter coating satellites.

MREs. Yeah, there's a lot of coffee. Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. And so the charge was make a solution that does not disrupt the communications, but mitigates the effect. And so that was the initial kind of platform that we built from that was in the 90s. And so over time, it's been refined and gotten smaller. Really what has improved has been, I think it's a lithography. The ability to etch on the semiconductor has just gotten better. So the. The finer, the deeper the grooves go in there. And the ability to diffract all that has gotten so much better over the years that we're able to make this small.

I didn't even realize it was a groove, honestly, like, until we were having this, I thought it was just like a pattern. But you're telling me, like, if I think of a microscope, this. There's actually little grooves in here.

Yeah. And again, you. On the website, you can actually. There's the math of the grooves. You can see, see it. There's. The schematics are on there. Yeah. I'll tell you this. We are a publicly traded company, and I Think that's we have a different level of scrutiny and rigor that we had to go through than virtually, I would say most other wellness companies, but also people specifically in this space it was three.

Is that on the US Exchange?

It's actually dual listed right now in the US Actually US Europe and Canada. Before we listed, the primary is in Canada the ticker symbol is WI fi and in the US it's aairf Americanairies is the name of the company on the stock exchange. But before we were able to list the investment bank that takes you public that raises the money to do all of that.

They were required due to the securities commissions of all the different countries that I just mentioned. They had to do their own third party testing. And I don't typically like, we don't do a lot of third party stuff that we talk about. We mostly only talk about peer reviewed and published studies that we've done. But they did their own third party research what they did in the US and they had to really demonstrate the effect that we, that the product does. And in the back of the claims that we said that it did and I would say we aren't talking about a lot of the physiological stuff that we're talking. We're saying that the product creates this field that we've talked about. It modulates emf. That's what their work had to do because nobody was going to touch whether or not that's beneficial for humans or not. Right. That was not what they did. They just that what they verified was that the waves that we had the ability to modulate the frequencies, that was a three year process to do that. So then we're listed and we're just held to a different standard. Like I can't make the claims, I can't do the things a lot of, of people in this space do. I can't, I can't put your face without your permission next to my product, which is a lot of people do in the space. I'll throw a clip of Joe Rogan up, they'll throw Huberman up and all these people and, and mingle the two together as if those guys are endorsing their product. We just can't do that.

People still do that with me. It pisses me.

I was gonna say I see your face on Instagram.

Some random like supplements company from China I think last time. And they just got my name.

You know, we see it all the time. We get tagged it, we get tagged in a specific.

I used to think it was cool.

I was like wow, really made it.

Now, now just pissing me off.

Free publicity.

I did not approve of that.

Yeah, yeah, we see it all the time though. We see people take, you know, our ads and there's another company that makes a microchip a similar story to ours that does, doesn't tell you how their product works, but they use a lot.

Yeah, that's what I was going to ask you. Like, like a lot of people are under the impression because I get this too, like I, I, I don't have to dot my phone anymore. I actually your guys dot my travel computer downstairs stairs and people like, oh, that's one of those things. Yeah, there's like a billion of them on Amazon. What do you tell people when, when they say, gosh, I've seen like you know, 18 versions of this at the Healthcare Expo where people want to come.

Muscle test me, you know? Yeah.

This is why I started the conversation. Like people try to pull us back into that conversation. And one thing I would say is like, we spent a lot of time of just building bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. And I don't spend a lot of time in, in those conversations. I truly don't. And cause you know how it is on the Internet, that is the conversation on the Internet and we just try to avoid it and we try to point people back. I'm never gonna try to convince anybody. What I would steer them towards is like, let me help you educate to become a better advocate for yourself and then you can go determine. I'm not gonna try to convince you. Cause that's a losing battle in most cases. And so but let me help you understand good science, bad science, at the end of the day you're still gonna have to make a decision decision for yourself. And I'm not going to try to change your mind on that, but let me help you. And we spent a lot of time on educating people on how to understand, interpret science, direct people to other resources on that. And like you had the gentleman on the podcast a few weeks ago talking about his product and hey, the waveguard guy. Yeah. And I didn't really know who he is. I spent a lot of time on other products and I just, I struggled with that a little bit because he spent an hour talking about how great his science was and everyone's bad. And so I was like, man, he must have some crazy papers on there. And so I took a peek and I was blown away. Like the logos of FCC on there, which you buy and you pay for those, they don't mean Anything. And then he has some studies on there that showed no results. And I'm like, these are public. And he's saying he has the best science and then trashing everyone else's science. I just don't like that. Like, that's not. I don't care what he does. He can go do that or other companies for that matter. It's just a weird world. That's why I'm like, people try to pull us into that.

Yeah.

And we are. The stuff that we're working on, like with Dr. Dogris and some of the stuff we have coming up with athletes and sports teams and leagues, we're just talking about.

Your science is not just like four people doing pre and post EEGs. Like the story that you started with, like you've got, you got more studies than that.

Yeah, yeah. There's over 40 studies on our website. And I'm not talking like, you know, bought and paid for third party, independent reviewed stuff. I'm like, this is peer reviewed research that spans decades.

If I was sitting next to you on an airplane and asked you what would be one of your favorite studies in terms of one, that's the most powerful story for you? What do you think?

I really like.

Well, there's maybe two that come to mind. If I was to start this company over again, I probably would not have went to EMF protection for humans.

Really?

No. I would have went to bees and bees. Bees. Yeah, because I like honey. Yeah. I think bees number one. If you look at like you can Google EMF and let's say sharks or crustaceans. And no one's mad about the fact that there's published papers and research that's come out in the last weeks, months around the Internet pipeline that goes through the Atlantic and the crustaceans that are being deformed and all that. No one's mad about that. We all accept that. It's an easier conversation than me telling you your phone's.

Unless you love crustaceans and sharks and more people love bees.

Yeah. But my point is if I was to talk about animals and I was to talk about insects, those are easier conversation to have. It's easier to test. It's easier to get funding for. It's just easier. And the impact and the scale that I could grow is significantly different. And I'm not being pulled back into these conversations with, I would say, products that are just unsavory. And so I really like some of the stuff that we've done with bees. We're in the middle of A two year study with a large beekeeping organization out of Quebec. And it's an observational one that's going to lead to a bigger, more controlled study. But the feedback that we're getting is just mind blowing. The survival rate of their colonies through winter really is unbelievable.

And so they're doing like with one of these devices.

Yeah, we use the bigger ones inside the hive, huh? Yeah. And there's some other crazy things that are reported.

Like I wonder if the honey, like the antioxidant content or anything like that changes. I'd be curious.

Yeah. But what we're finding is their ability to communicate, to stay organized, to defend themselves. And if anyone has paid attention to like the bee colonies, you got like the guards at the door, you got the people that take care of the queen, you've got all the people building like there is like an order to that. And the EMF is extremely distinct, disruptive and disorienting.

And it's one of many environmental stressors for bees. And so it's just a different conversation to have. If I say, hey, this is a tool or this is a technology that's passive, that can be put in there and actively protect. No one's going to argue with me. Right. And we can easily test that. So for me, those are some areas that I would have probably pushed into. And we have studies on that and we're in the middle of another one. So that's one. And then the next one I would say is I really am fascinated by. And the more that I've talked to Dr. Dogris and he's heard me say this now in the last few hours today, as we've been hanging out.

The ones related to math I really like, because math is math, like where we're quantifying things, we measure things, because those are like, it's black and white. Math is black and white. It's either right or it's wrong. Right. It's very, it's not great, otherwise the math doesn't work. And so the other study I'd point to is the most recent published study, peer reviewed, published, that we did, which was I think 2022. It's on the website, it's probably. And the reason why is because our recent patent is based upon that research. And so it's a global patent that's on the function of this and the ability to protect biological organisms. And so I like that one because it's been scrutinized by a lot of different groups around the globe. And then the success of that it was, they were invited to then present the findings and then that was then published. So I really like that because all the questions that everyone has, because we're all not scientists. And so when I talk about frequencies and we talk about wave theory, which is fascinating, it's math and it's well understood and that is outlined in the, that research. So I really like that because it's black and white, it's map, it's provable, you can recreate it, you can reproduce the results and it's been hammered on by smart.

What kind of math are we talking about? Like, like, like you're measuring the waveform change.

Yes. Let's say again you're talking about, you know, phase, frequency, amplitude are all shapes that we're talking about. Right. And so the ability to then what is it? What happens when it then interacts with. Again thinking of wave theory, if you, you've seen like the slit test where a wave hits one slit, two slits three, what happens to that wave and how is it vine, how does it come back to get like all those things? That's all math based. Right. And so your ability to recreate that through computer modeling and simulations is what I'm talking about. And so that's where, okay, we can say the depth of the groove, the shapes of these grooves that are in the semiconductor, the ability to diffract and create that non linear output. Which, which means what I mean by that is.

A linear output would mean that EMF wave that's coming in, this new one would have to have some correlation to that initial input. Right. So these nonlinear outputs that are being created are mathematical equations. And you can find all those on the website. Right. Like that's what has been tested and peer reviewed many, many times.

How do you measure the nonlinear output? So you're not using like an assignment oscillator or one of those EMF meters or something like that.

Again, that's where I go back to. Like that's all great because you and I think that we think visually, right. When you're talking to people that are in the space of frequencies and waves and things like that, it's very ma. It's, it's very much. They can create models and simulations based upon the math equations. And that's what I'm trying to say is like everybody wants to use these meters, they want to visualize, they want to know themselves. But the sophistication of a consumer based tool isn't there.

There's way more in the room than just a.

So what tool are they using in the studies though?

They're using. It's mathematically equate. They're using. They're going to use an equation and they're going to use a simulation of. Okay, what happens with this particular input of let's say 28 gigahertz. What happens when this interferes?

Okay, I got it. So it's an indirect sign simulation based on an algorithm that is predicting what would theoretically happen to that waveform if you were exposed to the WI fi.

Or the phone or something. That's a good way to say it. And I want to say this in a way that's like, okay, these are theories, but it is mathematical equations that are like provable. Do you see what I'm saying? It's not like if we threw pain at this window 100 different times, how many times would we go get the same result?

Right.

And we would try to then come up with equation and prove that. No, it's the inverse of that. It's like we all, we know with certainty of the outcome based upon math because there's no variable that we don't know. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

That makes sense. People ask me if it affects my ability to be able to take messages or make phone calls or the actual power of the phone. I haven't experienced that. The only time I've experienced that, I sleep in a. I should show you guys. I sleep in a Faraday cage up in the bedroom. It's a little like push button remote control, shielded healing media. And your ability to make calls and send messages almost disappears. But it doesn't actually affect the function of the device, does it?

No, the transmission of the data is not interfered with. And again, that was the original inception of the product. That's what the goal was. How do we modulate the EMF in a way without disrupting the communication? Communication. And so I see a day like where this is built, we become, I would say the catalytic converter.

I don't.

That's what you like muffler, but like the catalytic converter of, of, of technology. Because we can mitigate that emission in a way that's, that's especially if it was built into everything, then it's a completely different world that we did.

You mean you can take this and, and build it into a router or build it into a phone case? Rather than being a standalone device, you.

You'D want it close to the electronics because, because it's generating the field based on what's coming out of those yeah. And so yeah, it's going to be even bigger.

You guys have to license the technology to do that though. Like you would want to make WI FI routers. No, not at all.

I do not want to be in the business.

Yeah, I was going to say like you're gonna make a bunch of SKUs and shoot yourself in the foot.

We have a lot of discussions pretty regularly on with different partners, a little OEM partners and things like that. And I think we, we did a test with a SLEEP technique technology company. I don't think they're in market yet, but that they've, they've integrated into theirs. And SLEEP is a really interesting one because that's probably one of the first areas that people experience some level of disruption from EMF and the most important.

Area of your life to protect yourself.

And athletes talk a lot about it. I think Tom Brady wrote about in his book. And like, anyways, a lot of people talk about it. So it becomes very approachable and for some reason we all accept it as like, okay, that area of my life.

Life.

I get the EMF might be harmful, but everything else. Nah, we're good. Yeah, but so sleep technology is an interesting one, but I did that one mostly to like test my supply chain to build something that was out of my current lineup. But I expect we'll have some more stuff rolling out here that's similar where we take our smallest one. It would be tiny and it would just be able to build it inside of the phone.

The way I think about the sleep piece is like I'm not going to be a total Luddite or go move in with the Amish or whatever. So I'm to going and use technology during the day. But because I'm obviously not checking emails and doing work while I'm asleep.

Yeah.

There's no need to have the phone on. That's the place where I can really heavily focus on EMF protection, you know.

Yeah.

Stupid Faraday cages and all this. Like that's the area I tell people, if you're gonna focus on one region of your house, your living environment, focus on the sleeping chamber because that is where you can get all nerded out.

Yeah.

And then still be like a normal person using the conventional convenience of technology during the day and then just kind of like, you know, when you work out and you recover same thing. It's like you're working out during the day electrically and then recovering non electrically at night.

Yeah.

With non native emf.

Yeah.

The, the devices obviously vary. You got this little Square one. This is the one I keep in my phone, I think you said.

Yeah.

And then I wear the necklace. And then I have this one, this bigger one in front of my workstation downstairs where I have a lot more technology. And then I have the little dot I used to have on my phone, but I have it on my travel computer now, next to the keyboard. Are those the four main devices you guys have?

Yeah, we have another small one that's similar to the one on your neck that was originally developed for pets.

Okay.

And I found that it worked really well for children because, number one, I don't think we're thinking enough about the children. Babies all the way.

Just you guys send me a couple for my pets and I give them to my boys. More concerned about my kids than my dogs.

But that's. So that's what I learned too. So from the feedback I learned from consumers was I saw this trend develop where it was like, it was really easy to clip it to the backpack on their keychain, whatever it was, and they weren't mad about it. You put something on a kid's phone and all of a sudden they get made fun of or whatever, and that became a thing. So that's the only other one that's in that lineup. We're working on some additional kind of form factors. And I always think of this as. It looks like an. Anyone that remembers Radio Shack? This looks like something I could walk in a Radio Shack and buy, like as a component. That's what it looks like and it truly is what it is.

Yeah.

And so we haven't spent the money or the time to really come up with this industrial design. That's Apple esque, right?

Yeah. How many do you need? Like, the way I've always thought about it is like one per device or near each device. But like, if I have, let's say, like have this big one in my office, does this cover the whole average office or do you. Have you guys ever looked in like, how many you need per area?

Again, that's on the website too. There's again, through kind of sophisticated modeling that's all on there to say, okay, what's the effective range? But it does. There's kind of two facts. Proximity, as you know, with EMF is really the name of the game. So the closer to the source, the smaller this could be. But the smaller it is, the smaller the this field that's being created. That in the. This new field that's created is really what we need because that's where the interference Occurs.

Yeah.

And so we do want that. But look, if. If. And I know that's not the cheapest product on the planet for. For EMF protection, but it is like true technology. We are fighting.

I forget how much does something like this necklace cost?

And I forget, too, because we sell ballpark. We ship product in 70 countries every month. And all. I see different currency.

More than $100.

There's more than $100. The one that goes on your phone is probably around $100. We pretty much are always running a deal, and if they. If they go through your site, they always get a deal. And so. Or through using your code, they always get a deal. And so we do try to make it affordable and approachable for most people, but we are talking about a microprocessor. We are talking about silicon, which is gold in today's world. And we are running it on the same machines that every other computer manufacturer is running it on. So it isn't a cheap thing to make this gold immersion technology, which is one of the most conductive materials. And then it's a printed circuit board. I mean, this is. A circuit board is really what we're talking about. That's what this is. So this, everything here is an electrical component that's made in all the facilities that your computer's made in.

Yeah.

And so it's not a cheap thing to make.

What if you made a really big one? Like, what if you made, like, a bed? Like one of those. You know how they have, like, those treatment therapy beds? Would there be any benefit to having, like, a piece of furniture that I could just lounge in at home that was embedded with this technology?

I have my response to that, but I would also be curious in his response to that because he does understand what's happening. We have models of that. We actually have.

Large struct pieces of this that can be placed in building.

There's at least like, 6F enriched biohackers listening in right now who are perking up as you're talking, like.

Yeah. Let's just say there are structures that have been built with this. This. This geometry that. That we've built.

Really?

Yeah. In Scandinavia.

And so when you say structures, you mean like.

Like your room? Yeah, yeah. And they're really one of them. What's that?

Have you been in one of them?

I have not. I'm hoping to this summer, but I'm really curious about it. Yeah.

Yeah.

But look, there's a lot of building.

A house right now. You guys can sponsor a room.

I'd be into that. So I say that because I have a lot of questions. Right. Like you would. But the ability to create that field that he's described and I've described, what is the outcome? So this is the other thing. I'm curious what he wants to say that there's one thing I wanted to say is where we are spending a lot of time as a brand in the company right now is to really understand what's happening at the physiological level. Like, we already know this is doing what it's doing. We aren't really trying to prove that anymore.

Okay.

Where a lot of companies, I would say, in this space are really focusing on proving that their product is doing that. We haven't been doing that in a long time. And because, I don't know, we don't need to. The only reason I would need to is for to try to convert people that don't believe. I didn't spend a lot of time with those people. And so now what we're trying to understand is what's actually happening at the physiologic level, what's happening in the brain, what's happening in the heart, what's happening at the cellular level, what's happening with the proteins. So we're doing some research right now. We're about six months into another one that I'm really excited about. Something happened when we did an EEG scan with Macy Barber, the UFC fighter. And she's been an awesome partner. I love her to death. She had.

Brain hit right before we did this EEG scan with her. And she didn't tell us that she had had that. And so the gentleman. It wasn't Dr. Duger, it was somebody else was doing the scan. And it took him like an hour because he kept getting this noise as he described this noise in these results. And he kept thinking it was the cap. He kept straightening it.

This is why I don't fight.

And then she says, she's like, oh, I probably should have told you that I have a percussion about 48 hours ago, or whatever it was. And so we had seen in the result. And again, we haven't published, we haven't talked about it because I don't think it was the best. It's a topic that I would say, hey, I would rather do more research on in a controlled environment than go out publicly talk about it. But we did go do that research. So we're again months into this now, where what we saw was. We saw the brain activity. You could see the region that was lit up. It was inflamed. You saw that in the EEG scanning, you would be able to tell exactly what we were seeing. I just saw a lot of like red hyperactive waves and a bunch of like slow moving waves. And then we saw within just like five minutes of with the product, you know, the technology near and on the phone, we actually saw this, this effect, this, this blob, this, this inflamed blob was really actually shrinking. And what that means is that hyperactivity was coming down and that slow wave was coming up. And so there was a normalizing effect. And so I took that information. We didn't publish that because I didn't want.

What did she do, wear the necklace?

She had the necklace I think we had on her phone too that she just had on her phone. And we then I took that information and went to my R and D team which is in Europe and told them, hey, here's what I saw. So we've been recreating that now in a controlled environment and like, so we're several months in to doing a longer term study on this with about I think 24 different subjects. So I'm really fascinated by the results that we're seeing. But we want to get that peer reviewed. We're going to send out to a bunch of other people that do that. But that's a really interesting area. Like again we're talking about different things now. Like what is actually happening in the body, where can we apply the technology to humans. But also like I said, animals, insects, I get really fascinated about that kind of stuff.

So that's where we're going as a company. Like, well, how do we apply this? How do we do that? So a lot of our research and science is that direction. I'm not really trying to worry about proving stuff that's working anymore.

Yeah, I mean, look, the way I think about this is like I was saying earlier, we're not going to stop using these devices for the most part.

And I'm very cognizant of my use of technology. Even like freaking like Bluetooth on my laptop, I have that off. And then phones are always in airplane mode unless I need to have them on. There's not a freaking like smart appliance anywhere in this home that at least doesn't have the ability to be able to have to disable WI fi or adjust the frequency output or something like that. Like I'm kind of a fan of the stupid home concept. If you guys try to connect the WI fi here, there is none. You have to hardwire using an ethernet cable. So I think mitigating exposure as much as you can is smart. But then I'm sure you guys agree with me on this. You pair it with tools like this that when you are using the device, actually protect you. Like I tell my audience, don't be an idiot. Like, just have your phone in airplane mode if you don't need it on. That's the thing that annoys me the most when I'm stuck next to somebody on an airplane.

On an airplane, I look over them.

And not only is their phone not in airplane mode, so it's just blasting me, searching for a signal the whole time. That's the worst. Like when you don't.

Yeah.

Most radio, everybody, at least half the people on the plane, plus the WI fi is on, plus their Bluetooth, and they're not even using their phone. It's just sitting on little cup holder beside me.

Yeah, Right.

And so that's the message I like to get out is like, mitigate your use of the technology and don't have it on if it doesn't need to be on. But then when it is on, I think stuff like this, I mean, like, again, like mine is, is a fully subjective experience. It's all anecdotal, I'll admit, but I've been using your devices for what, like a year or so?

About a year.

Yeah. And I like them. I actually was really excited about having this conversation just because I get so many questions about the placebo thing and the study thing and how does it work if it's not reducing the field strength, you know, all these things that have come up. But this has been really helpful for me to learn a little bit more.

Yeah. And I would say, like, you know, Dr. Dogras, the work, I'm excited because, you know, I'm hoping to engage him, his teams and the stuff, the work that they're doing, to do really, like, where can we apply it? Because he gets to see, he's exposed to so many things. The work that his company does, I get more and more excited about as I learn more about what they're doing with EMF and eeg and like, he mentioned, like, the ability to the cranial stimulation, all the things that they're doing. Like, I'm very fascinated by that. Right. And the fact that the body is electric, like, what is that? The average person doesn't even think about that. And so when we think about it interacting with these other electrical circuits.

Right. What they don't think about until they get afib and.

Opens their eyes up to it. But I. You. One of your questions we had talked about before, before we started recording was like, how did I get into it? And I read the Body's Electric.

Yeah.

Robert Becker from, like, when I was, like, really young.

That's right up there with Jerry Tennant's book Healing is Voltage. Two great books.

So.

But I was a kid when I read that, and I don't remember. It was just. It was a. Something that I. I didn't understand just from the title. And so I'm like, I'm curious about this. And so it's always stuck with me. And I've continued to be interested in anything related to the idea that the body's electric.

Yeah.

And so that was my first thing. And then my wife, who is always the smart one in the relationship, was always trying to reduce our exposure to emf. And no matter what, the Internet's where I've made my living. And so for me, I'm like, Internet was everything. So there's always a of lot, a little bit of the friction in the house of, like, WI fi, and I want the latest and greatest. And so she was always really good about that. So I was like, okay, I'll support as much as I possibly can. And so then when Aries came up on my radar, it was the Drew Green, who's the CEO of Indochino, the menswear company. He's the chairman of the board of Aries, and he contacted me about another role of one of his investment companies. And it just wasn't interesting. It was a CPG company with a celebrity. I just wasn't interested.

Interested.

I'd been doing a lot of work already with other uninteresting things. And then he called me back saying, hey, I don't know if you know anything about emf, but take a look at this company. Let me know what you think. So I looked at it, and I spent a long time with my average human brain to try to understand all the science. And I contacted as many people as I possibly could to help me understand it. And it got to that point where I was like, I just want to understand the math. That's what I go back to. For me, math is kind of a safe place for me because I understand it. I. I'm comfortable with it. And I recognize the reason why I was always good at math is I understood that was black and white. I could prove my own answers when I'm taking my SATs, whatever. I could check my work. It was really easy. So I really got to the point where I was like, I just want to check the math, help me understand the math. So I sought out people that would help me understand the math. And that was a long process. And then I got really comfortable with it. And the more that I've been around it, the more work we've done, the more fascinated I am. But I think the biggest thing thing that jumps out to me is young people. I think young people, we talk a lot about the emotional and psychological effects of the phone and social media and things like that, but we don't spend any time talking about this emf. And I'd love to hear what Doggris has to say about that and maybe what you have to say about that. But the idea of this developing organism that isn't fully developed, that is not defending itself, rapidly dividing cells, rapidly dividing cells, they're extremely vulnerable. And I don't think we do enough as parents. We do the best we can. We know how hard it is right now to be parents. But that is one area that's like we should be better at because there are so many environmental stressors that we've introduced into our world in the cell phone being one that, starting with the.

Present monitor just to tag into that is, you know, the body has an inherent wisdom to it. It is the best doctor in the room. And if you do things to get in the way of that, you're going to put prevent yourself from being healthy in a way that you should be and can be. And so, you know, when you have something like this to help mitigate some of these hostile forces around you, allow the body to do what it can do. I think you're in the best shape possible.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, well, guys, this has been an incredible conversation. I've actually learned a ton. I get to ask all my stupid questions. Anything else you want to share? Just, well, like I said I would.

Say, the only thing I would just say is like, look, we're always willing to have discussions with people. We try to keep it as productive as possible. I do recommend people check out the website. From the study standpoint, I have been a huge proponent and he's seen me do this now a bunch where I'm like, with all the AI tools we have, you can take all of our studies, dump them into OpenAI to ChatGPT, ask it to summarize it, pressure test it, and chat GPT will tell you that the science is sound. It'll tell you that the science works. It's not going to say that EMFs are harmful. But it will tell you like. Yes, superposition interference. The silicon resonator does. It will tell you it. You can take all 40 plus 48 studies that are on the website right now and we have a lot more that we'll translate and put them on there, but a lot more on there. You can dump it all in there, have it aggregate it all for you and spit out a summary. And there's no other company in this space that can say that. Yeah, you can't take. Because everyone else is black box. We are, we are 100% open.

Yeah, I didn't know that.

Yeah. So you can take our patent, that tells you how it's made, our. Our design patents.

Yeah.

You can take these EEG studies, the ekg. You can take all of that and dump it in there. You can take our method in and dump it all in there and it'll spit out a result that says it's coherence, it's superposition, it's constructive interference. I'll tell you all of it, tell you how it all works.

You've got prompting skills. Yeah.

That'S the best skill nowadays with AI is if you don't want to be replaceable. Learn how to prompt show notes and I will link for those of you listening in to all of these studies, I'll link to. To the Aerostech website and the products and your guys channels. If people want to learn more about you Nick, or you Josh, or check out some of the. What's it called? Neurofilled. Neurofilled products because I think those look pretty sexy too. BenGreenfieldLife.com EMFPod BenReadfieldLife.com EMFPod like podcast questions, comments, feedback. I know that many of you listening in, you have additional questions, questions. Maybe something I forgot to ask your own thing to. To pipe in on skepticism. I hear that sometimes but honestly this is an open discussion so go to BenGreenfieldLife.com EMFPod try one of these devices out for yourself. I think you guys have some kind of like a guarantee or something along those lines. People get it.

Yeah. And I'm sure in the show notes we'll put some sort of promotion or discount in there for them too.

Yeah, I've always got something like that floating around. Just try Ben 10 that you're works. So go to BenGreenfieldLife.com EMFPod check it out. Aristech, Josh, Nick, thank you guys so much.

Thank you.

It's been incredible. Do you want free access to comprehensive show notes, my weekly roundup newsletter, cutting edge research and articles, top recommendations from me for everything that you need to hack your life and a whole lot more. Check out Ben Greenfield Life. It's all there. BenGreenfieldLife.com See you over there. Most of you who listen don't subscribe, like or rate this show. If you're one of those people who do, then huge thank you. But here's why it's important to subscribe, like and or rate this show. If you do that, that means we get more eyeballs, we get higher rankings. And the bigger the Ben Greenfield Life show gets, the bigger and better the guests get and the better the content I'm able to deliver to you. So hit subscribe, leave a ranking, leave a review. If you got a little extra time, it means way more than you might think. Thank you so much.