DEFY the Odds: SURPRISING Cancer Treatment BREAKTHROUGHS with Dr. Thomas Incledon.

I saw a lot of different medical conditions, from neurological conditions to autoimmune conditions to cancer, that people were responding. And so I was hired by a company to investigate, like, how is this working? And so I said, well, you know, one possible mechanism is through the immune system. So I really focused on running a lot of tests over different protocols. And we came up with a couple of findings that I didn't see anywhere on the Internet. I didn't see anywhere in a classic research that everybody talks about stepwise progression therapy from some of the older textbooks on anaerobic threshold training and stuff like that. And basically what I saw is that if we got people breathing oxygen, once they got between 500 and 1,000 calories, the tumor started to shrink with time. The exercise with oxygen therapy increases the magnitude of the response, so more cells going out killing, but also increases the precision. They're not just killing anything, they're killing canc.

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So this place has become sort of like this constantly expanding giant collection of technology from around the world.

Sounds like my basement.

Yeah. So the difference though is, keep in mind is like, we actually could put catheters in people's arms and we could collect data pre and post. So I know more about a lot of gadgets and the people that actually make the gadget. So they'll tell me stuff like, oh, my machine gets more nutrients in a cell. And I'm like, no, it doesn't. Like, how do you know? Well, because I've actually measured over a thousand people doing it. Because the people come here, basically, they're curious. They want to know, is this helping me or not? So we basically focus on measuring molecules that everybody needs to know about, but most people, like, it's not attractive enough to them, or they don't understand how to interpret it, or it's just not something in their normal wheelhouse, like. Like, we're in a world where, you know, instant gratification. I want to use it. I want results yesterday, right?

Yeah.

And so, I mean, I still operate on that myself. But then at a certain point you're like, hey, how do I know this is helping me Giving it time or money or whatever effort you're putting into it, you want to know, like, is it not conflicting with something else you're doing? So basically what we started doing is we started giving people the opportunity to come in here and think of it as they could do their own, like, n of one study. So whether someone wants to just lift weights and I can draw their blood and measure all the stuff around a workout, or whether someone wants to run or it doesn't really matter what you want to do. We could just basically measure anything you want before, immediately after, and then multiple time points later. And then so from that, I've been able to discover things like no one else in the world has been ever to discover. So, for example, I first learned about exercise with oxygen therapy around 2015. Other guys were already talking about it before then, but I looked at every single guy, was like, just reposting the same thing everybody else was posting. I'm like, who did you measure? Well, no one. So you're saying these Things happen. But you never put a catheter in a guy's arm, drew his blood and.

See what happens besides maybe a pulse ox.

Right, right.

So I started doing entire, like lymphocyte panels and started measuring cytotoxicity, lymphocytes, natural killer cells, and then every hormone that could be measured and all these antioxidants and like, you know, thousands of molecules or different cell lines. And then we started seeing some things. I'm like, whoa, you know, how do we reproduce that? So in other words, let's say I measure you and you're at 100. Let's say, well, measure me, I'm at a 10 and I want to get to 100. Now what do I have to do to get my 10 to your 100? Right. And that's when you say, wait a minute, I'm low in K2. And then does K2 have a relationship between immune responses? You know, and the reality is we know every cell in our body needs every single, you know, a molecule like oxygen, water, vitamins, minerals, essential nutrients, vitamins.

Minerals, fatty acids, amino acids.

So if you're low something, there's a penalty somewhere, whether you realize it or not. Right. And so if I just happen to be low in something and not know it, I'm not gonna get the best possible results from all the other stuff. So I always encourage people, make sure you know your basics right? Because you're not gonna get the best result from like creatine or testosterone or, you know, whatever other supplement if you're missing like this foundational stuff. And it's surprising. Every human. I've tested over 200,000 people. The number of people that actually notice basic stuff before they get here is less than I could count on one hand.

I have to ask, since you brought it up, and I do it like two or three times a week, does exercises, oxygen therapy work?

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, without a doubt. So I guess we'll define how you mean work, though. Like, so.

Right.

So first, let me just reframe the question a little bit.

Yeah.

So I primarily see people that have very serious health issues. Right now.

I still work, and that's important because I think a lot of people would look at, you know, if you watch the video version, jerseys on the wall, and the profess, this is not just like a high end performance facility. You're treating people who are diseased.

Yeah. So, okay, so to connect some of these sort of abstract concepts, I worked with, you know, NFL, super bowl winning teams, and World Series winning basketball. I mean, Baseball players and always, like, let's say high level athletes. And then these guys had family members and they got sick. And then you see all of a sudden, they're in this, like, other world. And the quality care sucked. It was just terrible. Like, you know, think of it this way. You're a football player, you go down on the field, they're MRI and you, like, right on the sidelines or going in a tunnel, and they have results instantly. Practically. Now you got cancer and you got to wait three weeks to get a scan. You know what I mean?

So it's a different.

Right, Exactly. So it's a whole. And I'm like, this doesn't make any sense. And then the care team that's supposed to be working together to help this person beat this terrible illness, Daryl, you know, who's on vacation, who's not getting back till next week. And so it was very discombobulated. And I started seeing there's all this stuff that just wasn't done. And so that kind of led to me getting this reputation for helping all these, you know, athletes, family members, a lot of guys, you know, well, think about it.

I was kind of wondering how you went from performance to disease.

That's interesting. And then it just swells, like, you know, one guy's like, hey, my dad's got this. Hey, my mom's got this. My cousin, my brother, whatever. And then just to be, you know, when I was nine, my babysitter died from a brain tumor. And just, you know, just to kind of put things in perspective, when I was nine. So I'm 57 now, but let's say roughly 50 years ago, no one knew what cancer was. Today I say cancer. No one ever asked me, what is that? Everyone either has had it or knows someone that's had it. It's not like a scary new word. It's a scary word, but it's not new. Everybody's. It's in their vocabular now. So in 50 years, we went from not knowing anything to everybody knows it. And so, you know, just because the relationships, all these people, and then seeing all the results to family members, it really took off. Now, we always work with people with cancer, but it's kind of like this. You see, you know, Ray Lewis, Bill Romanowski, but like the studs of the past walking out. People know who they are because they're on tv. So that name gets out there. You see some guy that's never been on TV with cancer walking out. No one says, oh, look who that is. They don't know who he is. Right. And so some of that's just like, you know, media bias and just, you know, entertainment bias. And so getting back to the ewod, like, does it work? So what I've seen is that if I saw a lot of different medical conditions, from neurological conditions to autoimmune conditions to cancer, that people were responding. And so I was hired by a company to investigate, like, how is this working? And so I said, well, you know, one possible mechanism is through the immune system. So I really focused on running a lot of tests over different protocols, and we came up with a couple of findings that I didn't see anywhere on the Internet. I didn't see anywhere in a classic research that everybody talks about, you know, the stepwise progression therapy from some of the older textbooks on, you know, anaerobic threshold training and stuff like that. And basically what I saw is that if we got people breathing oxygen, once they got between 500 and 1,000 calories, their tumor started to shrink. That's without any treatments, like, any.

Can you say 500 to 1000 calories? 500 to a thousand calories, Meaning that's what they were metabolizing during an exercise session.

So, so on there say, like, to the ellipticals. We have here are Cybex ARC trainers. Some. Yeah, promoting throw it in the brand or anything, but just so that you know what we're doing. So we program it so the resistance to the load is £400. And that's the standardized for everyone. And then we have the incline at 10 degrees, you know, incline. And then we have it start somewhere around 30%, but let's just say 30. Then I just pedal until they hit 500 calories on the screen.

Okay.

You know, and then when they're, you know, when you get more fit to a thousand. And then somewhere in that zone of 500 to a thousand total calories for that session, you just see cancer disappear.

Is that because cancer thrives in an anaerobic environment and you're creating an aerobic environment?

Well, you're doing a lot of things. So first, like, so to kind of focus on the immune system aspects. First, we see an increase in cytotoxic T lymphocytes and natural killer cells in the range of 27 million to 20. 27 billion for one person.

Wow.

So in 15 minutes, their immune. Like, here's their immune system, and it's saying, normal, nothing wrong with it. But now, you know, after 15 minutes, they're, like, way up here. So you have dramatic increase in the Immune cells leaving the spleen, going down to circulation. Right. So they're basically, with time, the exercise with oxygen therapy increases the magnitude of the response. So more cells going out, killing, but also increases the precision. They're not just killing anything, they're killing cancer. Like, they're real precise now. So there's that advantage that you wouldn't get from laying in a bed doing nothing. Plus, now you also have increased circulation. You're getting more oxygen into the tumor. So metal lung tumor or something. You're basically getting reversal of the dysfunction of blood flow. So normally it's kind of like when someone has cancer, you get blood going where you don't want it, so it can grow and not enough blood going where you do want it to fight it. And exercise kind of reverses that. And we're starting to see now evidence from other groups that, hey, exercise volume may be important. I'm like, this has been known for 100 years. Just look around. People that exercise have a lower incidence of cancer in general. So it's not like exercise keeps you from ever getting it because there's too many chemicals in the environment to damage DNA for that right now. But it definitely prevents it from. From kicking in sooner.

And if somebody couldn't exercise due to the joint limitation or maybe they're just sick, could you get a somewhat similar effect from, like, intermittent hypoxic training, like using, like, a cell gym or one of these units where you sit next to it and breathe oxygen? That's alternating back and forth between hypoxia and hyperoxia.

So I would say, in general, not the same response, you know, So I guess. So think of it this way. Let's say I have a guy hit by a car, and this guy, hypothetical guy, he can't move for, let's say, spinal cord injury, and he also has cancer. So way I would approach that is look at some of the classical research that was done, and you'd say, what can he move? Let's say he can move one hand or if he can move a finger. But something I would focus on, I would maybe whether it's a rubber band or a ball, but something that could provide loading or tension for what can be moved while he breathes in oxygen. And I would basically, you know, whether it's a single finger or hand or toe or foot, whatever it is, I would figure out a way to create a movement pattern that is resistance and effort and then train the hell out of him. Yeah, to get that stimulation.

What about hyperbaric?

So the limitation with Hyperbaric is you can't move in hyperbaric. That's where usually you're laying down and then what happens is you don't get many sit ups. Well, you know, so here's what happens is once you get to a certain pressure and the oxygen has started dissolving the plasma movement can induce oxygen toxicosis. And so what happens is if you compare immune responses, hyperbaric is nowhere. It's not even on the same, you know, galaxy, it's way down here versus Ewat. So I'm talking of guys that are far more knowledgeable about hyperbaric than I am. I mean they, they live 100 days or more below, way below underwater. So it's like the true hyperbaric stuff. And talking to those guys and learning from them, like some of the limitations. It's hard to move a lot when there's that much pressure with oxygen, so. Because then you run into other issues. But in theory, my speculation would be if I could take people and move them and then find the right pressure, maybe I don't need four atmospheres or three atmospheres, maybe I'll get away one and a half, you know, but there should be in theory some crossover where the right concentration with the right movement pattern, with the right pressure, we could maybe get oxygen in the tissue faster. Now having said that, hyperbaric oxygen therapy systems, you know, there's a price point, not many people can afford them. And I can get oxygen in the tissue with a gas mixture or would just exercise really fast. So now if you look at back to.

Comparative physiology, what am I getting for what I'm spending? You wind up coming back to exercise with oxygen therapy. Keep in mind, I don't sell these systems.

I'm not a salesman here, I gotcha. And we're gonna get a chance to show people some of this stuff shortly. Tom's gonna take me on a little tour of Concetta and show you guys some of the cool stuff here. But you've got a team here. Because when I walked in, first person agreement, the front desk was a naturopathic physician. There's you. Obviously you can.

I'm the dumbest guy in the building.

Medical staff.

Yeah, we got a lot more people than just. It's not a one man show. And you know, so like even our. Every patient here is a strength coach. Strength coach has two degrees including a master of science degree. So it's not your typical.

You say every patient's a strength coach?

Yeah, yeah.

So you can't get stronger if you don't have a guy that knows how to get strong. Right. Just think about that. So you go to. Go to MD Anderson, go to Mayo Clinic, Sloan Kettering, go to any cancer treatment center, and they'll say stupid stuff like, oh, we're going to get you stronger. And you go, well, show me your strength coach. They look at you like you're a crazy person. Yeah, but imagine.

You mean every employee is a strength coach?

Not.

No, no, no. Every patient that we have here has a.

Has a strength coach.

Okay, I got you.

I got you.

Yeah. So maybe I misspoke by the. Basically, the point is, you can't help people if you don't have someone that knows what they're doing in that area.

Right.

And so one of the things.

Exercise is medicine, right?

Yeah, it absolutely is. Well, especially we have people coming in in a wheelchair, and then they're walking in three hours, and then they're throwing out the wheelchair. You would think when they go back to the center that they came from that other professionals go, well, it's a miracle. We should do this. And you see, it's not done because juror doesn't cover it, and they can't monetize it. And that's when you see right away there's a lot of stuff in healthcare that's upside down.

Yeah. Can't monetize movement.

Yeah. Yeah.

Well, you want to take me on a tour and show folks what this is all about?

Yeah, let's do it.

All right. And again, if you're watching and you want to access the research, the resources, et cetera, go to BenGreenfieldLife.com causento there'll be plenty more about Tom and what he does there. All right, we are officially here. This is where the magic happens. This is Tom's facility at Causanta, as you can see, chock full of all of the geekiest equipment. And Tom's gonna show you some of the cool stuff here.

All right, thanks, man. So this kind of section over here, this is what we call our exercise with oxygen therapy equipment. So basically, took a bunch of the bags, and it hooked up in series. So that way, if I have, like, a beast that's breathing in a lot of oxygen, they're going to draw from.

Like, you're not going to empty all the bags. Yeah, that's why I got to go out to my gym and turn on the bag early before I go out. I don't have big bags like you.

But yeah, so basically, we have. Is we have a bunch of concentrators that take room, air, concentrate the oxygen, fill up the bags. These bags are roughly 900 to 1,000 liters. So to bet, you know, collectively we're putting out anywhere from 30 to 90 liters of oxygen a minute. So we fill up a bag and essentially we have a lot of different cardio pieces of equipment. But when I was testing people, I tested people on a stationary bike, I tested people on a recumbent bike, I tested people on a treadmill. And I found the best immune responses from an elliptical device. Kind of makes sense, more muscle group, arm, leg movement. And then when I tested different ellipticals, what I found is that a lot of people with joint issues and more people could do the Cybex arc trainer. And, and keep in mind my data, I'm talking about, this is stuff I collected like five years ago. So could there be better exercise equipment now? Probably, but just at that point, this is the best we could find. And what I liked is I get some patients that can't stand, so they're gonna be at zero and have some guys that are like, well, borns on the planet. They're at £400. Right.

So they're gonna be really high football players. Yeah.

Right. So I need like in one footprint of space, I need something that can accommodate a wide range of response resistance. Now basically we start everyone at. We use £400 of resistance for everyone. And then we just lower the percentages that we're using for each person, but we max them out, see where their fitness is. Most people starting in a 25 to 30% of the 400 pound range, and then basically they're breathing in oxygen while they exercise. And then depending on where they are, their first workout, it might be 75 calories, 150 calories, 500 calories, whatever. And then while they're doing that, we then will introduce. This is. These are some. There's a company called Collagen Techs and they make, they call this RX3, they call this RX1. Basically it's very, very powerful light.

Oh, wow.

This is like red light therapy that you're using.

Yeah. While they're exercising. Yeah. Now keep in mind this is 10 wavelengths. So it's not just red light. So it's basically it's polychromatic light. So think of it, super high energy, much more than you could find normally. And it goes to a quartz crystal that functions like a prism. So, you know, like the prism makes like a rainbow and you can see all different wavelengths or colors. So this will break it down to 10 so kind of think of it this way. Company A says, you know, my wavelength is better. Company B says, no, my wavelength is better. We're doing 10, so it won't matter. And what you could see is like, you could literally see people sweating like crazy.

So if someone wanted to replicate this at home, if they had a red light panel, it's not going to do as much of this as far as wavelengths are concerned, but they could like set up a red light panel next to a bicycle or elliptical trainer. And if they have exercises, oxygen therapy, they could do that at the same time.

Yeah. The main concern you have so like is distance. Right. So you know, the energy is inversely proportional, the distance or the radius square. So if it's too far back, then you run a question like, is it meaningful?

You need a pretty powerful device or have as close as possible.

Yeah.

So like, if you're doing this at home, I would say like, you know, skimpy shorts, right?

Yeah.

No shirt, working out, ideally, even like.

Actually, I should ask you this. Like a lot of companies now, like Lumaflex or Kineon, they're making like wraparound red light devices that you can theoretically like, you know, wear on your, your legs or on your arms or strap around your back and get like a baby effect of what you're doing here.

Yeah. So I think that's the right direction. I mean, ultimately we think of it as, okay, so we'll jump ahead a little bit, but kind of along the lines, you're just saying. So this is a company called Neuro20. These are basically electrodes and basically think of it like whole body normal.

This is like a pull on EMS suit.

Exactly, yeah. So now the difference is that when you see like EMs in the market, what you want to know is, okay, what are the patterns that they're using? Like, what's the basis for those patterns? What these guys did, very clever. They recorded the electrical firing patterns from top athletes. So the best sprinters, best jumpers, best lifters, and then they got that in here. So basically what's it called again? It's a Neuro 20.

Neuro 20.

Wow. And so basically you put on the suit. Now I could stimulate any combination of major muscle groups I want. I can do that.

Is this wireless or wired?

No, wireless. You wear the suit and I got like a controller pad.

Okay.

And so you wear this. I could have you on that. And let's just say we want to just rehab the right leg. I can turn everything off and just stimulate the right leg. Or if you Say, you know what, I want to do more lower body. Like I work with a lot of people with spinal cord injury or hip issues. I'd have trouble standing up. So I could literally just do the lower body only. Or if I have a beast like you, I'm going to stimulate every muscle group in your body and you can make it just want.

I've worn that. Have you heard of the catalyst suit before? I've worn that. It's hard. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're using all these little muscles that you wouldn't normally recruit afterwards.

So side by side, most of the guys would say they found this was way more intense. But also here's the cool part we got, they have, the company has a patent on all the firing frequency patterns. So we could use it for rehab. And it's like already approved. Like they could show that they could demonstrate like guys come back from rehab faster. They could use it for just strength training. So think of it. Now I have frail patients that were told, don't lift weights, you're going to get hurt. Now they come in here, what am I doing? I'm doing cardio, electrically stimulating them. We're discharging. These are men with terminal conditions and now have no evidence of disease. And they're leaving with 100 pound diet dumbbell rows. That's how it should be. That's the model of health.

But you're getting them to that point by using electrical muscle stimulation.

So basically we're helping the brain connect to the body using electricity. But now imagine you're wearing this while you're doing that stuff. So like think of it in 15 minutes we could stimulate multiple physiological systems at a very high level. So for the guys, like, so you see some clients, like, they're very successful, they're always to trying, traveling and they don't have a lot of time. Well, it's nice to have all the gadgets, but now you still have to use them, right? And where do you find that time? And so what I figured out is how to stack all these therapies so I could do stuff in 15 to 30 minutes that very few guys have ever seen done before. Then I could show people like within days getting physically stronger or physically faster. And then we do a lot of fun stuff. So like talk about at least athletes, talk about some of my patients. I've literally had an NHL hockey player here training with a woman with pancreatic cancer, terminal pancreatic cancer. And they're working out together and everybody's like, what the hell? And because what people forget is success sets the stage for success. And now what happens is the athlete has an injured ankle, he's rehabbing. The woman's trying to beat pancreatic cancer. They're both training at appropriate fitness levels, getting stronger, and next thing you know, the hockey player staying on a sled telling the older woman with pancreatic cancer, come on, old woman, push. So now she gets stronger, and she's laughing, having fun, and she gets to tell all her friends, I just push. NHL hockey player, you know, so we're leveraging our community.

Are you coming in here at the same time and also drawing bloods, getting biomarkers, some of those things you were talking about when you were in your office?

So we can. So it depends on where they are in their face. So right at the beginning, we're measuring a lot of stuff, because I basically think of it biochemically speaking. I have no idea what's going on inside of them. So measuring all this stuff objectively, and then as we start seeing, okay, they're improving, they're responding, there may not be as much of a need. So typically, you're more concerned when someone's not responding or you have unknowns. Then there's gonna be a lot more effort, if you will, to measuring stuff. But once people are doing fantastic, then typically they're like, hey, let's just ride this wave as far as we can until we need to do something else.

Yeah.

You know, a lot of clinics will use, specifically for patients who are on chemotherapy, something that would increase the cytotoxicity of chemo, like ozone for increased oxygenation or hyperthermia. Have you ever had somebody come in who's on chemo and combine, like, an oxygen treatment with that?

Yeah, we would. So what I would say, so first we do very specific tests to look at the genetics of the cancer. We compare that to their germline genetics, or genes they were born with. And we look at the protein pathways that are driving the cancer to spread. And then we're simultaneously looking at the micronutrient status and the environmental chemicals and the pathogens. And so then the tools we would use to enhance the effectiveness of chemo, we depend upon a number of those variables. But I would say, in principle, if someone comes to the door and they never did chemo, whether they're stage zero or stage four, my goal is to get rid of the cancer so they never need chemo or surgery. So that way, because nobody says, hey, let me go on to something I don't need, so what I usually try to do is get them to know evidence of disease in two or three weeks if they've never been treated. Now, if they've already been treated by other centers, then sometimes it's going to take closer to eight weeks because I haven't met any patients yet that have ever been exposed to this level of testing or precision. You know, most of the time when I see what's been done, there may have been something missed. And then you're not leveraging things the best. So for example, like some people have a NRF2 mutation and if it's not taken into account, you may push cancer one way or another. Or like a lot of times people come in and go, well, I'm going to go ketogenic, because carbohydrates feed cancer. And you might say in theory there's a lot of evidence to support that. But now when we test the cancer in their body, we find that they have a crash mutation and protein and fat drives that cancer. Interesting, right? So now it's kind of like, it'd be kind of like if I said, hey, look man, I want you to put this oil in your car and you go, dude, I have an E car.

Which mutation is that?

Crass.

Crass mutation. So that would indicate that something like a ketogenic approach would not be, may.

Not be the best approach. Yeah, you gotta look at it like, keep in mind there's like a lot of genes, right?

Yeah.

And so you can't just cherry pick one and say, what? If you kinda look at it in the context, it's no different than in your car. You check the air pressure on all the tires before you decide what you're fixing or filling up with air. So think of it that way. I'm measuring all the jeans and then decide what am I doing. I'm not just going to measure like 2 or 3. So just on that science alone, it's like women with breast cancer, er, positive, PR positive, HER2. Well, why are you measuring three when it's like 22,000? That doesn't sound very thorough. And so what we try to do is be a little bit more thorough and precise.

And you must have to use software though to dig through 22,000 genes.

Well, so it's collaborations, every one of the groups. So think of it as I'm kind of like the nerd that knows a lot of these things, but I'm not data mining every single gene. Right.

They got.

So each lab has their own AI platform and then where the gap is connecting the platforms. Right. So like one guy does germline genetics, the other guy does oncogenetics, but there ain't one guy doing both. So I gotta, sometimes I have to take this data, take that data, talk to a few more PhDs or a few more MDs, reconcile like what makes the most sense, and then we're taking some action.

Okay. Speaking of error, you know, I've seen some people use this type of training conjunction with hypoxic training, which supposedly flushes the cells with oxygen when you induce a state of hypoxia and then hit hyperoxia. Are you doing that also like flipping.

Back and forth between hypoxia and hyperoxia? That's so the reason. So keep in mind, I'm dealing with people that already have poor oxygen delivery. And you also have to keep in mind that more than 70% of the clients have comorbidities. So they may be high risk for stroke, high risk for heart disease, some other pre existing genes.

So you don't want like that vasoconstrictive hypoxic effect in someone like that.

Not initially. Okay, so that's. So the initial goal was let's get him to a thousand, right? If I get him to a thousand calories then, and the cancer's gone, you know, now I'm dealing with a different person than they started. So if, let's say, if I had, let's say, let's say a non athlete, I'm sorry, rather an athlete with no evidence of cancer. We're assessing them and then we're looking at what's the best way to bring them up. And so they might be like hypoxic training combined with hyperoxic training might just be simple breath holding. Hold as long as you can and then start breathing while you got this oxygen flooding in. Right now we're looking at some interesting things like so we have blood flow restriction training, weight training. And so think of it. So essentially here's the catch that you won't hear a lot of guys tell you. What makes muscle grow faster? Low oxygen. What makes the immune system respond better? High oxygen. So now basically what do you want everybody to do? You want anybody to do both. But now given that, how do I do it safely for each person, you know, and then keep in mind like your background, you have a lot more fitness stuff, whereas more like strongman stuff, whereas just like more 1 RMs, you know, so there might be stuff you could get away with, given your history. But I try that, I'm breaking down, right? So I got to figure out where people are and then kind of get them where they are to where it could be safer for them. And then we could go crazy and do whatever.

Would you ever use blood flow restriction combined with this stuff?

Oh, yeah, all the time. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, that's similar to like that. Have you seen the Vasper machine before? It's like cold blood flow restriction grounding, and then a lot of people will use oxygen with something like that.

Yeah. So we're sort of the way that we would sort of integrate stuff here.

We would definitely. So the poor man's approach would just buy Velcro cinch straps from Amazon. Just buy them 6 bucks, 12 bucks, put them on top of thighs, top of arms, just pull that puppy as hard as you could take it and then cinch it. You can't control tension, but it's like you could feel the blood building up in your legs. You know it's working.

And then you just don't get great venous return compared to like those fancy calculations, tattoo bands.

No, definitely don't. But here's the thing is they're so inexpensive. You break, no one cries.

You know, that's. That was my workout this morning. Cheap BFR bands from Amazon. I go for a walk and I do push ups. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, they're great tools and they're easy to travel with. You don't have to worry about, you know, oh, shit, I forgot something or I don't have a battery or power adapter or something. And then if I get people like, if I have like a pro athlete and I need something a little bit more like, remember, if I got guys that could barely stand, I don't need a lot. Right. To get some mileage. If I have a guy that's like a John Wellborn or some other beast, then I need something that's maybe a little bit more high tech, that could be more precise for those guys.

Yeah, yeah. Anything else interesting that you're doing in here? I mean, obviously this is the main full meal deal. You got the weights over here. I see PEMF back here.

Yeah. So different things. So essentially think of it. Well, basically what we did is we put the thing of the hospital as indigenous. Think of it like that. And so now whether I need like loading with a dumbbell or loading with a cable, we'll play with different ways of transmitting load or force through the body. Because remember, I'm dealing with a lot of people with different issues. So we'll do a lot of things like, okay, so One strategy might be lifting with a carbon polymer bar like the tsunami bars and things like that.

I don't know what that is. Carbon polymer bar.

I'll show you over here. So basically, think like bamboo training. So let's see, where did I put it? So a lot of kabuki gadgets, I like those guys and their stuff looks like a kabuki strength.

They make good stuff. Yep.

So, okay, so the bar is made from a carbon polymer. So under load. So like right now it doesn't bend much, right?

Yeah.

But under load it flexes and bow and bows more. Right, interesting. So now what happens is, think about it. So like say if you're benching.

Right, Right.

And you come down, so you would do like, maybe like this would be better for like pressing movements. So you come down and when the load hits you with a standard bar, it's like a chrome or steel alloy type of property. The loading is born by the joints at end range, either extreme. But now with something like this, you come down, the bar bends away from you so you don't feel that hard impact in your joint. So guys with arthritis, they love this stuff because they could train hard and your joints don't ache afterwards. So whether you're fully extending or fully coming at the end range of motion of a bench press, the bar bends away with you, so absorbs a lot of that energy. So as you then come back, the return is working with you.

Yeah.

What's this one called?

Tsunami.

Tsunami, huh?

Yeah. So this one, I think it tells you don't lift more than 170 pounds per side.

Yeah.

So now is that because of my damaged bar? So now. Yeah, I'll just throw it back in here.

Yeah.

Then we got a lot of different.

So think of like, so whether it's Spain, Czech Republic, Russia, Japan, we have gadgets from all over the world that we could put on people. So as an example, you heard of Emsculpt, right?

Yeah, Emsculpt, like the electrical muscle stimulation for incontinence.

No, no, that's not so Emsella.

Yeah, that's the one he said.

Yeah. So we got Emsculpt. Same company, BTL makes one. Basically, the Emsculpt got attention for like you put on your abs glutes, right?

Yeah, I've tried it.

So when we got that, I saw immediately I could help athletes jump higher. And so we had guys using to increase their bench press and jump higher. And then company comes in and goes, it's not supposed to be used that way. I'm like, who said I own it now? I can do whatever the hell I want because it's in my building. Right. And you just basically, if you're curious, you could play around with a lot of these gadgets and develop new applications for them that, you know, just most guys aren't thinking when they're selling it because they don't have time. They gotta get the next sale done and stuff like that. And so just.

You were telling me to do something interesting with red light combined with pemf.

Is that right?

Yeah. So let me see. All right, so basically.

So this is a device. It's called Hercules laser, and this part's called a multi lumen. So basically, each pad is 80 watts of power. So I could run, you know, 80 to 160 watts of power around a joint. So think of it as the light comes out, goes so far, then I take the pulse. And, you know, they have a lot of different attachments, but let's say the red light is going on my hand.

Right.

So light's coming down into it.

Yeah.

I can tend to pulse, put it over it, and I use a magnetic energy to drive it.

So now people using the magnetic energy from the PEMF to drive the red light with the PEMF stacked on top of the red light.

Yeah. Yeah.

Interesting.

Yeah. And if I try it. So I'll have guys try. Try one or try the other. And like, I don't know, maybe it helped, maybe didn't. Yeah. I combine the two to, like. Holy, that stuff works.

That's interesting because I. I actually have one of these soft, flexible red light beds that have been laying on top of my PEMF mat that's just like this. And you feel incredible when you get up from it.

Yes. So what I've done here. So we have a light bed there. And then what I can do is take one of the attachments. The light's coming this way and the magnetic energy's coming that way. So it's not quite the same. You really want them in the same direction. Coming through. Problem is, I love the pulse, but it's a very powerful tool, and it could blow other gadgets easily. Like, sometimes if it's too close, the energy here will blow a circuit board.

I've done that before.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's an expensive learning process.

I run my sauna and my hyperbaric and my PMF at the same time without somebody not being able to cook a meal upstairs.

So this guy here, whatever the hell Gene is, owner of that company, whatever he did I could blow this soul through it and doesn't damage it. Well, he. So he. Jean's an older guy. He's pretty rough. He's like, that's because you're buying cheap shit. I was like, gene, it's not cheap. This is expensive stuff. It works real well. But everybody else is not thinking about. No one builds something. Worried about another device interfering with it. Right. It's just not part of the process. However he designed it, it's like impervious, you know?

Wow.

So basically all I'm doing right now is getting you a little warmed up. Skill sweat going. The sweat's going to act as a conduction.

Okay.

For the electrodes that are inside this.

Gotcha.

And then once you're a little sweaty.

It'S like a toaster in a bathtub.

That's going to do. They're going to have some fun today. I think old cowboy movies where they're shooting the guy's feet saying dance, you know, that's what I'm kind of thinking.

Geez. It's all right. All I got to do is go sit on plane after this, Tom.

That's right. That's right. Well, you're going to love me or hate me after this, right? There's no way between.

I usually hate people after ams. Gotta admit.

I want to do next, I'm going to turn on some light just so you get a visual of how the light would work.

Okay.

So give me one moment.

Now. Light that would penetrate clothing.

Yeah. You could have a fur coat and jeans. And it'll go through it.

Wow. Is that based on the power of the red light?

The power to different wavelengths. So maybe you got 10 and some go pretty deep. And what I've also done, I've tested this. We have a chair version and I've tested the chair version and I can verify it raises hormone levels in men. So, like, there's a lot of ways we could leverage this stuff.

So I'm going to do now.

I'm just going to go like lower back area. And you'll feel like it's getting hotter around that area pretty soon.

Now I know what it wasn't getting harder. I was choosing the incline instead of the resistance.

It's like another two minutes. Then you should be pretty good.

Yep.

Yeah. I can feel the heat from that light. That's powerful.

Yeah. And it's not even a minute, right? It's like 30 seconds.

Yeah. You can feel almost instantly, honestly.

And I could even get it close.

Like sunlight.

Yeah. Like music. Guys like dude, it's like staring into the sun. Yeah, well, then don't stare at it.

Yeah.

Just gonna walk through here.

While you're doing that, I was going to try to get this going. Maybe slow down just a smidgen because I got to plug this in.

Okay.

There we go.

Cool. You're able to control this suit?

Yeah. So basically that's providing power to the suit and it's the receiver. So then I have an app on an iPad and I connect to that guy. So I'm going to start, you know, basically. Let's see here.

Cool.

All right, so we're going to. Basically we'll just say strength.

Okay. You got.

You got like hundreds of options. Just pick something simple. I just say 10 minutes just because you got to travel.

Yep. Gives me time to get to the airport.

Yep.

Without throwing a blood clot in the plane.

All right, so I'm going to start.

So first thing I'm going to do is going to turn on all the muscles. I'm going to go up slow. If it feels like pins and needles, then you're basically not sweaty enough.

Sweat.

Yeah.

I can tell. I don't have too much sweat yet.

Okay. Let me know if you start feeling any tingling.

I can feel a little bit.

So is it a pins and needle? Does it feel a little bit more like.

It's so light. I can't even feel that much.

Okay.

Yeah, it's a little pin needly slightly. All right.

I'm gonna wait another minute or two to get a little sweatier, and then I'll just keep increasing it.

Okay.

So I'm at like three right now.

So it's pretty low. Yeah.

But the idea is. So once they're sweat, then the electrode makes more contact surgery.

Spray down the water.

You could.

So would I.

Like, that's what I've done with the catalyst suit before.

Yeah. So what I'll do is a couple of options. One, I just jump in the shower.

Wet the whole suit.

Right. And that saves me time.

Yeah.

But.

Or if. If I don't want to get that wet for whatever reason, I just like five minutes, maybe ten, you know?

Yeah.

Then it's sweaty enough.

You probably sweat faster than I do.

All right. And so now.

I tried a little bit more.

Let me know.

How's it feeling?

Feel a little more. Yeah.

Still not a ton of sweat, but I can. I can feel some of the muscles contracting a little bit.

All right, I'm going to start now. Increasing a little bit. Let me know if it gets too strong in any Muscle.

I will.

Now your some of like the abs in the back if it's not pushed up.

Yeah. It's not super snug, so I probably won't feel that much.

Yeah.

If it's not, it's enough to at least give folks a little demo of what it looks like.

Yep. So what we would do is so sometimes some of the athletes have a big chest waist differential.

Yeah.

So we put a band around like a velcro band around the waist.

Gotcha.

So it touches.

That makes sense.

Yep.

Yeah, I got a very wide shoulder to waist ratio.

Yeah. So then what we'll do is I'm just going to turn it up a little bit. Get a let me know when your quads are feeling it.

It's pretty cool. You can adjust arms and legs separately.

Yeah. So I can go left, right and left or, you know, independently.

Yeah, I like that.

Well, what's kind of interesting, so a lot of people have had like a head injury or brain injury or something, or fall even.

Yeah.

They'll say my right side is great. My left side not feeling it. So I can bias it and put more stimulation on the side. Not getting it. And then you'll see workout after workout that all of a sudden it starts catching up. So I'm going to now make it a little bit stronger in the legs.

Yeah, now I'm starting to feel the legs. Yep.

So we're about four and a half minutes in.

Huh.

And then now. So I didn't have you breathe in the oxygen because we're talking.

Right.

And obviously it would interfere, but yeah, like if you were like training for real, I'd have you breathing in oxygen. Yeah, yeah. And then giving your background, there's a lot of like latitude. So we could explore like sprint intervals. Yeah, we can explore different things.

Yeah.

And then, you know, to joke, like. So we teach a lot of the patients here, you know, how do you make anything feel easier or lighter? Just do something harder.

Yeah.

It's all relative.

Yeah, it is. So do a hard spray now try 30%. And it feels like nothing's there, you know?

Yep.

All right, so coming down. You got four minutes to go. You want to write it out.

Strength kind of goes back and forth. Huh.

So terms of like, what do you mean back?

Like it'll like contract and then relax, Right, Exactly.

So what I did for you, I just put a 60 second contraction and a one second relaxation.

I was gonna say the relaxation period seemed to go by pretty quickly.

That's right. Like, you sure it's even Working cackling.

Like a torture chambermaster.

Well, I was. I did watch. You'd be like, you know, I saw Tom's place. I didn't get any results.

You know, you turned the legs a little bit then.

Okay.

Okay.

I want you to go back home and see. I'm not sure if that guy's all there, but I definitely got results.

Fond remembrance of Tom in Glidar.

That's right. I'm never going back, but at least my quads are bigger.

You tell me when.

Let's say we're right there.

Okay. It's pretty good. A little bit more. We're at Neanderthal levels. You're almost there.

Oh, there's that one second relaxation kick in.

Yeah, like, I blinked. Relaxation's over.

Yeah.

So. So when I do this, I put basically no relaxation, right?

Yeah.

So it's like contract. Just consistent reset. Yeah.

Well, it does give you a lot of results in a short period of time. Yes, exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

So, like, this part of me, like, if I was competing, I would do what it takes, like, terms of training. But where I am right now, I have a lot of responsibility for other people's lives.

Yeah.

So I'm kind of like, okay, in 15 minutes or less.

Yep.

How can I get some. Some results and then.

Right.

I'll try to do it maybe like a free. I get better results from frequency than I do from volume right now, particularly because I have a lot of neural issues and arthritis. Arthritis issues. So.

Yeah.

Shorter times.

I'm not.

I don't beat myself up too much, you know, so you get about three and a half minutes to go.

Okay.

Maybe like every 30 seconds, turn up a slight notch. Let's see if I can.

Yeah.

Power it out.

Okay.

Can do anything for three minutes.

Sure.

So you got nine seconds, and then I'll crank it up.

Okay.

All right. Ready? Here we go.

How's that?

A little more.

Yep.

I just went up, like, two units.

Yep. Just maybe keep doing that, like, every 30 seconds.

Sure.

I'll just keep doing it till I see you cry. All right.

Yeah. Once you see me squirming.

Like, what.

Kind of dance move is that? I haven't seen it before.

Yeah.

The, like, all the electric dance exercise.

Yeah, yeah.

Electric boogie.

Yeah.

Yeah. You can tell this would be probably, like, slightly easier with oxygen, huh?

Well, definitely for the muscles, you know, definitely from, like, the brain. Like, you're not gonna. Definitely not get as fatigued. But the idea behind the oxygen is to create a temporary environment. We could train maybe way harder Than normal. I could take people in 12 days, get them results they haven't had in years.

Wow.

Yeah.

And the reason is we keep pushing and pushing, but safely, Right?

Yeah. Honestly, I think it's just as impressive, the results you're getting with Disney disease.

Well, it's.

I mean, everybody, wherever they are, whatever they're dealing with, like, no matter what you're dealing with, when you come in, you want to be better. Right. Regardless of the diagnosis.

You'Re pretty good, man. You're almost at 60. That's. That's probably the highest I've ever done.

Oh, really?

Yeah. So we're. Right now there's no data on this point, right?

Oh, yeah.

Venturing to Mars, you're like, what happens there? We just don't know. Right.

Then loses his tacos that he had for lunch.

Wait, everything feels good except that left leg.

Yeah.

Which is honestly where I've had some knee issues in the past. That left leg, you can feel it's a little bit weaker.

So is the signal weaker or the contraction weaker?

The strength of that left leg, like, I'm getting way more drive with my right leg.

So then.

So what I would do is I would.

A minute and 20.

So.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So right now, push through. So right now 62.

Yeah.

Do I just leave it there to the end.

Oh, you want to go up? How much time do I have?

You got just about just over a minute.

Just over a minute. Let's go 65 for this last minute. Let's see how that goes.

Here we go. I'm starting to like you more and more, man.

Not quite a walk in the park.

So.

All right.

If you feel really good tomorrow. It was my idea. If you really saw it, it was your idea.

Yeah, I can tell. I probably feel a little bit.

Between that and my BFR training this morning.

Yeah, that's right. This is like a double header for me.

The BFR doesn't. Doesn't beat you up too.

A great setup, though.

Yeah.

You're giving people plenty of ideas here.

Sure.

It's gonna be a bunch of gyms that want to add something like this to their facility.

Oh, yeah, yeah. Especially well the Neuro 22. What's so cool is Guy.

Yeah.

Like, you don't have, like, the. The level of dysfunction a lot of people I have work with. But imagine if you have trouble walking, they actually have a program to help.

You walk like a normal person.

Wow. Yeah. I'm using that right now.

Like a gate retraining type of program.

Exactly, exactly.

There's Just a bunch of different settings on that thing.

Yep.

Wow.

All right. Make sure I check the time here.

All right, man. You did it.

All right. Yeah, done.

I just turned it off. Hopefully you don't feel anything now. Now.

Still going. Won't shut off.

It's stuck. That's the permanent. So you go over 60, it stays on permanently.

Yeah.

Wow.

It's a penalty.

Wow. Well, for folks watching, I mean, obviously it's a pretty incredible setup. And, you know, there's a lot of information on Tom's website at Causenta, along with other interviews that he's done. But I really wanted to get you guys thinking about ways that we can go beyond just, you know, pumping iron, going on a walk, riding a bicycle, all that's great. But when you introduce a little bit of better science like this, you know, oxygen, light, electromagnetism into your fitness protocol or your disease management protocol, your performance protocol, you know, I've known about what Tom's doing for quite some time. It's very cool to see what he's put together here at the facility, so definitely recommend you check him out. I'm gonna put all the show notes@bengreenfieldlife.com if you like Tom, let me know. We'll do. We'll do another interview at some point, come to Scottsdale and Phoenix quite a bit. So if you guys want to take a deeper dive in the meantime, visit his website. Tom, thanks so much, man. I think.

Thank you.

I think.

But I'll tell you for sure if I thank you in the morning. Thanks for watching, you guys.

Do you want want free access to comprehensive show notes? My weekly roundup newsletter, cutting edge research and articles, top recommendations from me for everything that you need to hack your life and a whole lot more. Check out BenGreenfieldLife.com it's all there. BenGreenfieldLife.com See you over there. Most of you who listen don't subscribe, like or rate this show. If you're one of those people who do, then huge thank you. But here's why it's important to subscribe like and or rate this show. If you do that, that means we get more eyeballs, we get higher rankings, and the bigger the Ben Greenfield Life show gets, the bigger and better the guests get and the better the content I'm able to deliver to you. So hit subscribe, leave a ranking, leave a review. If you got a little extra time, it means way more than you might think. Thank you so much.