Self-Defense & Protection 101 With Navy SEAL Turned Preparedness Expert Bill Rapier

It's a form of violence insurance. It allows you to be the guy with the answer if you are faced with a problem where the correct answer is violence.

I have no clue if this is even like a rude question or a. No, no question in your field, but are you carrying weapons right now while I'm talking to you? Absolutely. How do you explain that to people? Like, well, first of all, I'm actually curious what you're carrying on your body and why.

Okay, so just to start off, I've got a steel frame compact Walther PDP on me. So I've got 18 rounds on the gun or in the gun, and I've got another 18 in the pocket.

For people who don't know what that. That's basically a handgun.

Yes, I've got a handgun. Yeah, we got a pistol on me, strong side and a, you know, black point holster.

And then I've got it. So. And then I have a full reload as well. So I've got another. So I've got 18 rounds in the gun. I've got another 18 rounds in my pocket. And then I have a.

So the 18 rounds in your pocket, as you call like a mag.

That would be a mag in your pocket. Yep. And then I would have. Or I do have a Northman. Right. So one of the. One of our blades, basically. More like tool, like for. For that one. We live on a farm, so, you know, you need to be able to cut stuff.

Yeah. So I want to. I want to hear about that later on how you made. So when you say one of our.

Blades, you actually make blades? Yes. Yeah, so. So I have that. Right. Don't wait. Because especially, you know, as we. As we start training more first. Go first.

Is that so. So this will confuse some people. And, you know, I would imagine some people under the impression that if you go first, that means you attack somebody.

Yeah. So it's really important. You know, it's a little bit more of a nuanced approach here. So when I say go first, this is after I've already attempted to de. Escalate. Right. So. So p. You're walking to your car. You know, you're parked at a grocery store, it's late at night. Someone starts approaching you from. And you, you pick it up from, you know, 30, 40 yards out. You see the guy, he's walking directly towards you. Maybe he gets 20 yards out and you say, hey, how's it going, man? You know, good evening, how are you? Right. And the guy is just like, you know, has. Has a look about him, right? Maybe he's saying crazy things. He continues coming towards you and then, right, we can escalate things now with words. Oh, hold on, man. Like you're kind of creeping me out a little bit, right? Hold on. Stop right there, right? Then you can stop, right? We can escalate things a little bit with words while we're doing this. We don't have to be static, right? We can move. And you're in a parking lot. Put another vehicle in between you and your potential threat, right? And now talk to the guy. Hey, what are you trying to do, man? You're creeping me out right now. Like, are you trying to rob me? Right? Have this conversation while we're still at distance.

Yeah, right.

And then you get to the point where now he's on the other side of the vehicle from you and he's like running around the car to try and get at you. Well, that's abnormal behavior, right? The guy, you've attempted to de escalate to discern what's going on, to diffuse this whole thing, but now he's right and we've had a conversation and now this guy's like chasing you around the car. Go first, right? And that could be an elbow to his face.

Wave at the mall cop, get him.

Over there, you know, I mean, if the coppers are there, absolutely. Hey, buddy, could use a hand over here, you know, let those guys do their job for sure. But if that guy's not not there then either, right? If there's no tools, I'm not going to use tools, right? So hands get hands, tools get tools, right? That's really important.

You mean you don't escalate the level of violence to a level that's higher than what that person has come at you for? Sure.

Well again, me being, you know, a capable middle aged man now, right? Like, whereas if I was 80 years old and a 20 year old kid is coming up and trying to get in a fistfight with me, I probably would go to.

Or if, let's say you're a woman and some guy comes out with a.

Knife, pull your gun. Well, I mean if anyone comes at me with a knife, I'm immediately pointless, okay, 100%, right. That you will absolutely get yourself killed trying to just so there's not levels of tool.

You're saying just the presence or absence of a tool would dictate he's coming.

At me with a steel pipe matter what it is, my tools are coming out. If he has a knife in hand, my tools are coming out. He's got a gun in hand, my tools are coming. Coming out.

Got it.

But if he's just get tools. Right. That's really important.

You mean you don't escalate the level of violence to a level that's higher than what that person has come at you for?

Sure. Well again, me being, you know, a capable middle aged man now, Right. Like, whereas if I was 80 years old and a 20 year old kid is coming up and trying to get in a fistfight with me, I probably would go to.

Or if let's say you're a woman and some guy comes out with a.

Knife, 100% pull your gun. Well, I mean if, if anyone comes at me with a knife, I'm immediately pointless. Okay, 100. Right. That you will absolutely get yourself killed trying to just.

So there's not levels of tool. You're saying just the presence or absence of a tool would dictate.

He's coming at me with a steel pipe. No matter what it is, my tools are coming out. If he has a knife in hand, my tools are coming out. He's got a gun in hand, my tools are coming out.

Got it.

But if he's just.

So if you're standing there with a gun, he comes at you with a piece of plywood, you don't not pull your gun because you don't have a piece of plywood.

Yes. Right. We don't have to go down to his level and say hold on while I go to Home Depot and get a piece of plywood and we can have a match with plywood. Yeah. No, no. Hands get hands, tools get tools. It's always a higher level win to win with a lower level violence or zero violence.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so how much of this is a hypothetical? The reason I ask that is some people are probably still wondering, well, yeah, that sounds like it'd be a good idea, but does this stuff actually happen? I mean, you gave the example of the stabbings that tragically occurred in Moscow. What about like you, have you ever run into a situation in which you've had to deal with something like this or de escalate a scenario?

Not in conus. Right. I mean overseas, you know, obviously we were, that was our job was to go to violence. And how about one of your students.

Or somebody you've worked with where this stuff.

We have had. We have had some guys, we've had. I've had some cops that have shot guys after training.

So yeah, I mean it is something that happens. Fortunately, it doesn't happen that often. And honestly, the guys that I know that are the most dangerous are actually the least likely to get into a violent situation because they recognize the severity of it.

Right.

If you're carrying tools.

It'S that much more important that you don't get in a fight. So like, overwhelmingly, the guys that I train aren't guys that are going to bars and getting nine eyed and going out and getting in fights because like, you're just.

Like your life is going to go downhill very, very quickly if that's what you're doing right there. So generally the guys that I'm teaching are a little bit more mature, have thought things through a little bit more. They're not in that phase of life where they're, you know, going out bar hopping and getting in fistfights with you.

You're not in scenarios where this would have a high likelihood of happening.

Yeah.

You brought up a church. You know, I've thought about this. Sometimes when I'm sitting in church, we have security guards in our church. I know you go to church also. Has this happened in America, for example, at churches where, where weapons have been pulled or people who are trained.

Need to help?

In the Midwest, just recently a guy started shooting from outside. I believe he's using an AR and just started shooting into the building. Another one of the, I think one of the deacons was driving in and actually ran the guy over as he was shooting at the church. And then one of the church security guys ran out the guy down.

Wow.

Yeah, like went and shot and killed the guy. So, I mean there's, you know, unfortunately church shootings are becoming something that are happening several times a year. I mean, I think of the, I.

Don'T know if it's anything specifically with religious or anti religious zealots in America as much as it might just be, that's another place where, you know, people are going to be publicly gathered and open to being wounded or assaulted.

And a lot of churches still don't have church security teams and so they think it's going to be a soft target.

Yeah, yeah. So I met you through an organization called AMTAC where you actually train people. And I want to hear a little bit more about that. But before that, I really didn't even introduce you yet. You have a last name. Do you say you pronounce your last name Rapier?

I do.

Okay. Doesn't that mean like spear or sword? Spear person.

Sword. Long thrust.

Did you choose this profession based on your last name or is that just coincidence?

It's, it's cool.

Coincidence?

It's the way God made me, right? I mean this is. I've got pictures of me being, I don't know, five or seven years old with a beard painted onto my face and an OD green jacket and a beret on and a non functioning shotgun in my hand. And it's just I've always wanted to do something along those lines.

So do you ever look at your genealogy to see if rapier actually means that there were people who fought with spears or swords?

No, like really I only know maybe two generations and beyond that I don't know like any of our family history.

So tell me about your history, like how you actually got into this.

So born in Oregon, we moved to. My parents were missionaries. We moved to Germany when I was 5 years old. Early on in life, German kindergarten, like didn't speak a lick of German. My parents threw me into a German kindergarten. Did K through 6th grade all in German schools. Then did about a half a year of school stateside. That was first time going to an English speaking school was in Los Gatos, California. And then we moved to Swaziland in Southern Africa. So it's actually, they changed the name.

So it's called Swaziland.

It was called Swaziland, now it's called Eswatini.

Okay.

So I loved it over there. It was a phenomenal time of my life. We were only there for about two years. Basically Swaziland is surrounded by South Africa and Mozambique. So it's a tiny little kingdom in the mountains. It's super cool place. So we're there then for the last couple years of high school we moved to Colorado Springs and my goal had always been to go to West Point. I really wanted to do that. And then come about my junior year I started wrestling, started drinking, getting off of the path.

Right.

Was not very serious about my faith and my grades tanked and I just did not want to do anything college. So I just started looking at what commando organization looked like the hardest thing to get into and the highest likelihood of seeing action. So the day after I graduated high school I joined the Navy and went through boot camp, corpsman A school and then went to buds. And then after a bunch of after BUDS and a bunch of medical stuff, I checked into Seal Team 3 in 96 and did a couple years there and then spent the last 14ish years of my career at DEV group and so had a great run. Was very.

So you're a Navy SEAL in the last 14 years. How did you say that? Dev Group.

Dev Group. So Naval Special Warfare Development Group.

Okay, and what do you do in a situation like that?

Well, I mean, we had the.

Muslims flew the airplanes into our buildings, and shortly after that, we started deploying downrange. So, yeah. Yeah, a bunch of deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan and yeah, it was a good. Yeah, it was a good run. Yeah, it was definitely. I mean, I, you know, I was honestly terrified that I wouldn't see action. I remember being a brand new guy until team three and looking at some guys that had been around 18, 19 years, had never done anything for real. And I was terrified that that would be me. And then, you know, fast forward a few years and we were doing stuff. During initial invasion in Iraq, we were doing stuff multiple times a day. We'd just be hanging out the airfield and. All right, we got another target.

Yeah. So I really enjoyed my time. Got to work with some amazing Americans, lost a lot of friends.

But overall, it was just a great, huge privilege to be able to work with men of that caliber and to be able to do cool work for the nation. Yeah, yeah.

Right now, while I'm talking to you, there's I think, seven young human beings responsible for on the patio playing with balls. Did you have a family when you were doing this, or did the family come?

Not when I started. So I think I was 13 or 14 years active duty when I got married. And then we did not waste any time. Like, we started having kiddos right away, but I think we only had four when I. By the time I retired. Yeah, Last three were born in Idaho. Yeah, yeah.

So I went out and did a course with you, you know. Well, in the middle of nowhere, north Idaho, about two and a half hours. You actually drove there, or drove here to my place. From there.

Learned a ton. Just fed through the fire hose. I mean, I've done. Done a couple courses like the Sheep Dog, Tim Kennedy's course, and.

There was one other, just real basic firearms type, of course. But that was a whole new thing. Learning close quarter combat and drawing your gun and shooting at something two feet away and the knife work and wrestling around with dummy guns and dummy blades. It was an incredible experience. But one thing I kind of picked up on was that it seems like you have one of your sons. Billy was there, you know, training with all the guys. It seems like you start your kids off at a pretty early age learning a lot of this stuff.

Absolutely. So as far as firearms training goes, that's one of the first things, like, you know, with. With the little ones once.

Once.

Once they're Old enough to begin. No. No training.

Right.

An unloaded pistol will go on the table. What is that? That is a big no. No. What happens if you touch it? Spanking. Right. They don't need to know anything further than that. Okay. And then as, as they get older and they'll see me in the house dry firing or loading at the beginning of the day or unloading at the end of the day, they might say, dad, can I hold the pistol? And we don't want to make it this crazy thing that like, is always an evil thing to touch. Right. We want to teach them about it. Just like, because you don't want to.

Create a forbidden fruit.

For sure. Yeah. We don't want it to be this thing that, like, because they're, they know where.

Where the fact that some parents who, who award their children with their 16th birthday with their first phone and then, you know, tell them they can only get 60 minutes, they, they almost like make the phone so special a thing that it turns into being something that kids abuse. Like, you know, with our sons. We, we gave him a phone one night when we were heading out on a date and said to call us if anything happened or if they needed that. So it wasn't a big deal because if you make a thing a thing, it becomes a thing. Yeah. But at the same time, you want to create some respect around something like a weapon on the table.

And so I'll just take, you know, so when as they get older and they start going, hey, what, dad, can I hold your pistol? Absolutely. I'll clear it out. I'll show them how to do it. I'll talk through it. We'll go through the four fundamental rules of firearm safety. Right. And then I'll make them attempt to clear it as well so that they're pulling back on the slide and looking in there and showing me there's nothing in the chamber, there's nothing in the magazine. Well, and then I'll let them dry fire.

Yeah.

And I'll, you know, and I think so much for our kids, it's valuable to get it a bunch in short bursts. I mean, just like faith and anything that we really want to stick with our kids. Kids, it's not, hey, I'm going to do this one big course with them one time. It's all the little five or ten minute lessons that they get throughout the week.

And then it just progresses with that. And then I used to do more stuff where we would just go to the range and shoot kind of on our own time. And I'VE kind of gotten a little bit away from that with going out with all the younger boys. And it's turned much more into. As they get older, it's kind of a big deal for them when they get to do their first actual course with me and then they get to wear one of our hats after they do the course.

Yeah.

And then, you know, like, I mean, the two days ago I had to go zero a new pistol and get, get some reps with something. And as I'm heading out, one of my boys, like, dad, can I, can I come and shoot? Yeah, go grab your, grab your rifle and ammo and eyes and ears and meet me out on the range.

Yeah.

You know, because we could shoot on our property. So I just go down there and then he shows up 10, 15 minutes later and, you know, we talk through stuff and I'll coach him a little bit. But that was mostly, that was more of a me day of, hey, I've got some stuff that I need to work on. And he's there and, you know, but it, but that ends up being great because it's just little, little blocks. It's not this big forbidden fruit. It's just something we respect it just like we respect a tractor, just like we respect, you know, driving a snowmobile or the kitchen knife. Right. We don't go tip on with something. We don't walk around randomly with the kitchen knife after cutting up onions. Right. There's just some basic rules that need to go with that.

Yeah. So what's your wife think about all this? Was she on board from day one? Hey, we're gonna show our kids how to handle a weapon at an early age. And, you know, I don't even know if your older children carry as well. But, you know, I'm just curious if you and your wife have always been on the same page.

Well, not on.

Not on macro level stuff. Maybe on micro level stuff. Yeah. There might be times when. Okay, really, is this a good idea to do this, or does he really need to go help you with the class again? So on the macro level, by the.

Way, kind of the reason I asked is women do tend to, not to stereotype too much. They tend to be very defensive sometimes of their children, want to be protective of them. And usually it's the guy who needs to push the kids out to do dangerous things.

And so really to speak to the, you know, the wives. Right. Don't browbeat your wife to try and get her to carry or to like, you know, all of a sudden have this Amazing situational awareness. And have five knives on her and sword. And, you know, like, don't do that.

Right.

You need to. As men, we're supposed to lead in our families. It shouldn't be. It shouldn't be beating, you know, figuratively speaking. Beating your wife up about not caring. You should just be encouraging her. And. And when there are teachable moments that is, something crazy happens someplace or. I mean, we've had stuff where, you know, locally, to us, you know, ended up not being an actual thing, but some lady was, like, pretty sure that some guy was, like, casing them and like, you know, the white panel van was out front and, you know, like a bunch of stuff where they ended up calling the cops and. And they said, yeah, this, like, we think this was an actual, like, setup. And just I remember laying there in bed with the wife and we're talking about this and I go, that. That's happening to our daughter three hours ago. What's your move? She's like, I would wrestle him. I go, you're not a good wrestler.

Wrestling. Yeah.

You know, so it's one of those things where just like, just having a blade on you, which. So the. Normally the blade is an easier sell for the ladies because it doesn't require having a special belt on. They can still wear yoga pants or whatever, whatever they want, and they can tuck a little blade in. And you know what, if you're. If someone is getting into the vehicle holding your child and you have a knife, you can stop them.

Right.

Put it right in the subclavian and pull them back like you just created a handle. And you will. Absolutely.

Right.

You can actually save your child like that. You're not going to do that. I mean, unless they've done a bunch of jets and they're going to take the back and like, choke him out. But even then, like, if the other guy has tools, they lose. Yeah, that.

Yeah.

So these are the types of things that you have little conversations like that and then try to lead them to a point where, okay, maybe they'll. They'll carry a knife at least, or maybe they'll have a pistol in the car or in a purse. Right. And if it's just a public service announcement, if you. If you're off body carrying, which is not as good as carrying on your body, you should never have a round in the chair.

Off body carry would be like, I got this in my backpack.

Purse. Yeah.

Fanny pack.

Whatever, man. Purse, whatever. If it's not physically on your person, there should never be around in the Chamber because it's just too easy to forget about it. And then some kiddo comes and ends up, you know, making the gun.

Yeah. Yeah. And I'm sure a few people are wondering. It's kind of, kind of possibly a dumb question, but you have a round in the chamber when you're carrying. Let's say like you said, appendix. It's kind of like right down the front of the pants area. You ever get worried you're going to like blow a ball off or.

I don't send a round down your bag or something. I always say tongue in cheek when, when we're talking about draw strokes and reholstering. I always tell the guys, I'm like, hey, you guys that are appendix, Karen, you've got a lot more on the line than I do when I put my pistol away. Yeah. So it's straight finger, gently putting it away, making sure there's no obstructions, you know, there's nothing going on as you're, as you're putting it away right there. Super important with modern holsters, it is a safe thing to do. I still don't like doing comfort wise. I don't like appendix carrying. And then also for fighting, it's just not as good for fighting.

Yeah.

Like there's some concealment pros with, with appendix, but it's definitely, it is not as good for fighting.

Yeah. Let's say somebody is listening and they're, they're frequently in scenarios where there's people around, there's innocent people, there's people that might need to be defended. They, they live in a high risk area where they might not have immediate access to a cop or security officer or some other personnel to help them and they have no clue where to get started with any of this stuff. Maybe they own a gun or a knife or something like that. But what are the steps to actually become proficient in this? Because the last thing you want is somebody, you know, hearing us talking on a podcast and say, all right, I'm going to get a gun and you know, shove it in my pocket when I take my wife out on a date tonight.

So horrible.

Yeah. What, what are the steps that one goes through to become proficient?

So seek out first off, get quality equipment. Right. So that's a huge thing that I see. Guys that show up with their granddaddy's pistol and an ancient leather holster. Takes them way longer to learn. And honestly, they're more dangerous to themselves and the other people around them versus someone that shows up with a modern striker fired pistol with an Al kydex holster. Right? So that. That's huge right there. We've got better technology than we did 100 years ago. Use a pistol that's better and then put it in a real holster and then go.

And one thing, by the way I learned from you at that AMTAC course was just the way it feels in your hands and how big your hand. Like, I showed up to your course with a Little Sig Sauer P365 manual safety with iron sights on it. Since then, I've actually, I've upgraded to a kit that you recommended that is much, much better and much more fun to work with. Awesome. But, you know, I just figured, yeah, I got a gun. This is all I need. But even that is dependent on size of your hands, how it feels.

So it's a huge thing that people do. They go. And they'll look at a pistol and they'll go, well, this is nice and light and small. So, like, I'm more likely to carry this. And so they. They end up buying a. I literally got that. You're.

You're in a lab. I got that gun because it fit in my fanny pack.

Yes. Which it.

Which I've realized now would take me about a bad two minutes to get out.

If you have to fanny pack carry, that could be a legitimate consideration. Yeah.

Well, I thought when I got it that if I didn't carry it in a fanny pack and I put it in a. In a holster under my belt, that.

I'd just shoot myself again. This is why.

This is why we train.

Yeah. So this is why we train. So I would. I would tell guys, start. Just go initially with a local range, find someone reputable locally and just go through. Have them talk you through the four fundamental rules of gun safety. Right.

Safely holstering and unholstering your pistols. Safely going through a loading procedure and a unloading procedure.

Right.

Not pointing your weapon at people.

Right.

I mean, four fundamentals of gun safety and then holstering, unholstering, and then start working on accuracy after that and speed of draw, stroke, all those things. But honestly, like, the most important thing is still going to be awareness.

Right?

Awareness. And then 100% safety with tools. And the next would be clean draw stroke from concealment.

Right.

As we're looking at, like, actual things that we can practice.

Okay. And someone living in an urban area, like a city, they could get access to a gun range every once in a while to go out and practice these things. But then you can also dry fire, and that would just be Something. Well, how often do you dry fire?

Multiple times every day.

Multiple times every day.

Well, I mean it is my job to be able to shoot. So like. But honestly, a lot of the guys that I know that are into.

Into training or will fall into that same category. So like at a minimum. Right.

So my, by the way, after I heard about that, so when I get up in the morning, I take the mag out of my gun, I bring it down here into my office. It's sitting on top of the printer. And I do at least it's not a lot. But I dry fire about 10 times a day now. Just I have a little target, it sits on that, that table right there just to, you know, get the acquisition of the green light on the target and get a feel for what the trigger feels like. So I've been 100% trained with you like a month and a half ago and I'm already starting to weave that in. It just feels more natural.

Yeah. And kind of the.

Why behind that is if today, later today, you have to shoot someone to save a loved one's life. Wouldn't you rather be warmed up?

Yeah.

Right. And I mean, we all shoot better, you know, a couple mags into it.

Yeah.

So why not get those out of the way, get some of those dry fires out of the way by just dry firing every morning.

Right?

Yeah. Over like everyone that ends up being good. They all the common denominator. They dry fire like crazy.

Yeah.

Right. So like I build in dry fires in between my workout sets. Right. I work out at home.

Sure. Like do it when your heart rate is up just, just to simulate like.

Scenario doing, doing a bunch of kettlebell swings or coming off the pull up bar or doing Dad, I do that with my bow.

I don't do that with the gun, man.

It's been. That's a really, that's a good one right there. Because you can do it with high heart rate and when you're, when your forms are really pumped and especially with that dot gun, you just, you stare at what you want to dry fire at and then you squeeze that trigger and you'll see, you'll see any, any imperfection in your trigger squeeze.

Yeah.

So yeah, the more we can do that in different, different circumstances like that it's really, really valuable. I'll also practice with my, with blades.

Right.

Obviously with train with training blades. So just what's a training blade? So training blade is just going to be an aluminum shape that's painted blue or actually we anodized them blue and Blue is universally within the military anyways. It's known as an inert color. Right. So a blue bomb or a blue hand grenade or anything like that. It's going to be something that's not actually going to go off. They're round. They're not. The tips aren't pointy. Right. They're rounded off. They're about a half inch shorter and they're not sharp at all. So we can actually practice drawing it. And if you screw up, right. Or you're practicing with your friends. We're not killing each other, but they're tough.

They don't break.

They're not gonna break.

When we did that course, you had like a timer and a piece of wood on the wall and we were having to draw and shove that thing into the wood. And I thought if it was a training blade, it was flimsy and would just snap. But it was.

So that's why don't run like plastic ones or like rubber knives. You see that more with people that are like kind of practicing dueling where they're both squaring up with knives, which is not what we do. Like we don't live in a culture where we, we get into ritualistic knife duels.

Right, right. Just like the chivalrous plywood battle in the parking lot.

If you're pulling a blade out, it's probably because people are already punching you or you're stopping someone from drawing and then you're deploying your blade.

Yeah, yeah. Okay. So someone can get a gun, join a range, get trained, learn the four fundamentals like you're talking about with a blade. Get a training blade. Seems like it would be harder to hunt down places to learn how to use a blade properly.

The knife stuff is definitely. There's. And there's so much baloney that's out there. There's so much make believe stuff within, I mean within all of martial arts.

Right.

I mean we, it's sometimes it's embarrassing to even say martial arts, but when we actually look at, what's the root word, martial, that means warlike. So martial art or warlike skills, when you start thinking of it that way, every. You're stopping someone from drawing and then you're deploying your blade.

Yeah, yeah, okay.

Thing that we do in a class is actually martial art. Right. We're training to shoot. That's. That is a warlike skill that you're practicing. When you're working arm drags into blade deployment or you know, swimming under hooks into blade deployment. Right. Pummeling drill like all those things are Marshall skills. And yeah, on the blade side, it's much harder. Places to look would be either Sayak Kali or Atenza Kali. Those are the two top ones that, that I would recommend say Kali Kali. Right. So Kali would be. It's, it comes from the Philippines. It's just they're like, you say that stuff coming from Japan is karate and.

There'S a bunch of different types of. There's like a whole Filipino knife fighting culture. Like shoot. Like that's, that's where you would.

The Philippines and Indonesians, they still have driving, they still have living blade culture there. Where, where they actually do have stuff where it's like, oh, like our families have a beef, like we're going to duel with knives. Seriously, they have stuff like that.

Have you been there to the Philippines?

No.

Have you trained with. With Philippines?

My church fighters, that is their lineage with my teachers is from, from. Sayak is actually the name, last name of a family.

Chris Sayak is, was the, the founder of that system and he's just, he kept it very marshal, which is why I really like it. And the same thing with the, the atienzas. It's a very Marshall, very results based system.

Okay, got it. And then I'm assuming probably the easiest one to hunt down in your area would be Jiu Jitsu. Would that be the form of, of physical training that you'd recommend as far.

As jets is a great one. Learning a martial art, I always tell guys it depends, right? If so if, if, if time is of no factor and you're. And you're healthy, absolutely. Join Jiu Jitsu school. You're going to get great stuff out of it. The downside of Jiu Jitsu is it takes a while, right? I mean like when I started doing Jiu Jitsu, I had already wrestled for a few years. I was 23, 24, like, great shape. And it was multiple months before I actually ever caught someone in an arm bar that didn't want to get caught. Yeah, right. So a lot of men, especially professionals like, you know, they don't have two months or three months of every single night to do that. Now if you do, it's great, but even if you do, I would still recommend start with the gun stuff because if, if the goal is to make you as capable as possible as quickly as possible, we start with the one that has the highest roi. That's going to be gun stuff.

Yeah, right.

Being able to pull your pistol out.

Right.

Being safe with our tools, being able to pull a pistol out. That's going to be the number one thing. And the number two thing is going to be being safe, being able to pull blade out.

Yeah.

Because that really complements when you're going for this pistol instead of just wrestling over this. I just anchor my pistol and draw blade.

Yeah.

And it's super hard. I mean, you do jitsu, Right. It's hard to control both hands at the same time. And if I am, what am I doing offensively?

Right.

Like throwing headbutts and then trying to, you know.

Yeah.

Get you on the ground and isolate some sort of a, you know, side control. Isolate one of your arms with my knee. Just long enough to draw a tool.

Yeah. I think I remember that during one of the demo nights at your course, your gun, some of your gun just like slid onto the floor and I didn't even blink my eye. And you had a knife. I had no clue where it even came.

Huge thing. You've got to work your transitions.

Right.

Because it will. Especially when, when, when you're pummeling, when you're grappling with people, like stuff is going to happen.

Yeah.

With your tools, you might get disarmed, you might do a clumsy draw stroke, or the other guy might have got his hand on the pistol first and the pistol goes flying.

Yeah.

Right. So when that happens, we can't pause at all. We just need to go right into a strike and. Or a, you know, another weapons deployment.

Yeah. Little. Little bit of. Possibly a slightly esoteric question, but when you're thinking about this, knowing what, you know, are there mistakes or myths or miscalculations that people commonly make when it comes to this whole idea of self defense or preparedness or something that's permeated the industry that you just think is wrong. Yeah.

A lot of stuff. The biggest ones, probably the things that bother me the most are when guys treat it like, like, okay, I've checked the box. Especially when you say preparedness. Right. We start thinking the more that the prepper side of. Of things. And then you mean like I bought.

A gun and it's under my bed now.

Firearms check.

Yeah.

Right. Like that. That just bothers me. Like, so that's a huge one, guys not being in shape. Right. Like it's, it's, you know, the, the old, I don't need to know how to fight. I carry a.45.

Yeah.

Like, no, if you carry tools, you need to know how to fight better.

Right.

And so guys that are. I mean, that's when I talk through mindset talk and talk about Preparedness, Right. The physical things that we're doing, the number one thing there is be in shape.

Right?

Be healthy, be strong, have endurance, be able to fight.

Right.

Those are super, super important things.

So that idea that, hey, just because I carry a gun, I don't need to know how to fight, another one would be, well, you know, don't. Don't bring a knife to a gunfight. Like, you know, actually, I want to take both.

Yeah, right. I want to.

Because there are things where the, you know, having a blade answers a question that the gun doesn't answer as well.

Right.

And they can be sneakier.

Right.

There's some good things that we can do with blades. So that would be one that is underemphasized. Transitions hugely under emphasized going from striking, right, from a fist fight, from shielding to pulling pistol out, pulling a blade out.

We did a lot of that at your course.

Huge. I mean, well, that's kind of like the main thing that. That I'm known for. The main. That's probably the biggest thing that we try and get across to people is what we call integrated combatives. Right? It's not just, okay, now I'm here.

That's what that means, is working with a lot of tools at the same time and transitioning between them would be.

One that is underemphasized. Transitions hugely under emphasized going from striking, right. From a fist fight, from shielding to pulling pistol, pull out, pulling a blade out.

We did a lot of that at your course.

Huge. I mean, well, that's kind of like the main thing that. That I'm known for. The main. That's probably the biggest thing that we try and get across people is what we call integrated combatives. Right? It's not just, okay, now I'm here.

That's what that means is, is working with a lot of tools at the same time and transitioning between them.

So not thinking of yourself as, oh, I'm a jits guy, right. I'm just gonna. Right. I'm gonna go in and grapple with the guy. Or I'm a blade guy. I'm gonna stab her. I'm a gun guy. I'm gonna shoot. Like, no, I'm. I do whatever it takes to win.

Yeah.

And that might be all three of those things, or it might just be, you know what? I see things are escalating, and I see that hand go down and I check your gun hand, and I elbow you in the face two or three times and you fall down. I'm like, cool, we're done. Let's let's leave right again, that'd be higher level. When you didn't have to deploy lethal tools, you did, you know, just. Just hands. So not thinking of yourself as, I'm a Jets guy, right. I'm just going to write. I'm going to go in and grapple with the guy. Or I'm a blade guy, I'm going to stab her. I'm a gun guy. I'm going to shoot. Like, no, I'm. I do whatever it takes to win.

Yeah.

And that might be all three of those things, or it might just be. You know what? I see things are escalating and I see that hand go down and I check your gun hand and I elbow you in the face two or three times and you fall down. I'm like, cool, we're done.

Let's.

Let's leave. Right again, that'd be higher level. When you didn't have to deploy lethal tools. Tools you did, you know, just. Just hands.

Yeah.

Or elbows, in that case.

And then. Yeah. Not. Not maintaining a proficiency with tools. That's another huge one. I see all the time guys going, oh, I grew up around guns. That really means nothing, right? That could mean guys that have trained at a super high level their whole life with guns.

Skeet with the beer. Yeah.

You know, and that's what. That's how.

Yeah.

Or elbows, in that case.

And then. Yeah. Not. Not maintaining a dad showed him and like, he's totally cool with. With drinking and. And sweeping people and proficiency with tools. That's another huge one. I see all the time guys going, oh, I grew up around guns. That really means nothing, right? That could mean guys that have trained at a super high level their whole.

Life with guns or guys. Or shot skeet with the beer. Yeah.

You know, and that's what. That's how dad showed him. And like, he's totally cool with. With drinking and sweeping people and.

Yeah.

Right. So. So that. That statement, I've grown up around guns really means nothing, right? You need. I mean, it's just like anything else, right? Like, if you want to be good at something, go and actually train.

Right.

Go do a training class. Go learn or watch YouTube videos. Like, you learn a bunch from. From a lot of that stuff.

Yeah.

Right. Get better, but be serious about it because it's not just going to happen.

Yeah.

Right. So. So that. That statement, I've grown up around guns really means nothing, right? You need to. I mean, it's just like. Yeah, right.

Careful with the YouTube video statement, though. There's. There's a lot of people who watch the UFC and think they can roll anything else. Right.

Like, if you want to be good at something, go and actually train.

Right.

Go do a training class, go learn or watch YouTube videos. Like you learn a bunch from, from, from a lot of that stuff. Yeah, right. Get better, but be serious about it because it's not just going to happen.

Yeah, right. Careful with the YouTube video statement, though. There's. There's a lot of people who watch the UFC and think they can roll. Yes, that's. That's also permeated a lot of culture.

Yeah.

Too much time watching, not enough time doing. Yes. It kind of seems like you're a little bit of an anomaly. Yes, that's. That's also permeated a lot of culture.

Yeah.

Too much time watching, not enough time doing. Yes, it kind of seems like you're a little bit of an anomaly because you've got seven kids. From what I understand, you're pretty active in your church, like an elder.

Elder worship.

You lead worship. And you're also like this badass guy who can, you know, theoretically kill someone if you needed to, and you carry a blade and a gun.

Was that kind of like an evolving process for you to be a man of faith and involved in your church? Obviously you started a family pretty early, going from being a Navy SEAL to starting a family, but where did the whole church picture come in?

So I. And the more I understand about salvation, the more it's maybe a little bit harder to phrase, but I remember saying the sinner's prayer as a five year old. Right. I remember sitting next to a kid in the, in the backseat of my parents car and going, are you going to heaven? And then quickly saying the sinner's prayer and saying, I am now. Yeah.

Yeah.

All right. Fire insurance. That box.

Yes.

So there's really. So I remember, you know, I grew up in the faith. You know, parents are believers in man. That's, that's another one that the, the older I get, the more I'm just so grateful that, you know, God put godly parents in my life.

Mine too. It wasn't perfect, but I mean, just, just growing up with an appreciation for say like absolute morality and the Ten Commandments, I think is, is very stabilizing, very, very important.

But honestly, I, I wasn't super serious about my faith. Right. I. I was very. Peaks and valleys and, you know, kind of started partying a little bit. Went when I was in high school, first few years in the team, same thing. Like, I honestly, I Making it through buds, making it into the SEAL teams was an absolute idol in my life. Like that was the most important thing. I was still going to church sometimes when it was convenient, but I'd sure prayed a lot going through hell week and when things were hard. So there was never an absolute rejection of faith. It was just more of like, you know what? I'm kind of doing stuff that I know is sinful and, and I like doing it and I'm, you know, basically like in rebellion and then who's driving back from Colorado when to win with a lower level violence or zero violence.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so how much of this is a hypothetical? The reason I ask that is some people are probably still wondering, well, yeah, that, that sounds like it'd be a good idea, but does this like you, have you ever run into a situation in which you've had to deal with something like this or de escalate a scenario?

Not in conus. Right. I mean, overseas, you know, obviously we were, that was our job was to go do violence and. Yeah.

How about one of your students or somebody you've worked with where this stuff.

We have had. We have had some guys, we've had. I've had some cops that have shot guys after training.

So yeah, I mean it is something that happens. Fortunately, it doesn't happen that often. And honestly, the guys that I know that are the most dangerous are actually the least likely to get into a violent situation because they recognize the severity of it.

Right.

If you're carrying tools.

It'S that much more important that you don't get in a fight. So like overwhelmingly, the guys that I train aren't guys that are going to bars and, and getting nine eyed and going out and getting in fights because like you're just.

Like your life is going to go downhill very, very quickly if that's what you're doing right there. So generally the guys I'm teaching are a little bit more mature, have thought things through a little bit more. They're not in that phase of life where they're going out bar hopping and getting in fistfights with you.

You're not in scenarios where this would have a high likelihood of happening. Happening.

Yeah.

You brought up a church. You know, I've thought about this. Sometimes when I'm sitting in church, we have security guards at our church. I know you go to church also. Has this happened in America, for example, at churches where, where weapons have been pulled or people who are trained like they're trained to need to help in.

The Midwest just recently A guy started shooting from outside. I believe he's using an AR and just started shooting into the building. Another one of the, I think one of the deacons was driving in and actually ran the guy over as he was shooting at the church. And then one of the church security guys ran out the guy down.

Wow.

Yeah, like went and shot and killed the guy. So I mean there's, you know, unfortunately church shootings are becoming something that, that are happening several times a year now. I mean, I think of the.

Probably, I don't know if it's anything specifically with, with religious or anti religious zealots in America as much as it might just be. That's another place where, you know, people are going to be publicly gathered and open to being wounded or assaulted.

And a lot of churches still don't have church security teams and so they think it's going to be a soft target.

Yeah, yeah. So I met you through an organization called AMTAC where you actually train people and I want to hear a little bit more about that. But before that, I really didn't even introduce you yet. You have a last name. Do you pronounce your last name Rapier? I do. Okay. Doesn't that mean like spear or sword?

Spear person, long thrust.

Did you choose this profession based on your last name or is that just coincidence? It's cool. Coincidence.

It's the way God made me, right? I mean this is, I've got pictures of me being, I don't know, five or seven years old with a beard painted onto my face and an OD green jacket and a beret on and a non functioning shotgun in my hand.

And it's just, it's.

I've always wanted to do something along those lines.

So. Yeah. Do you ever look at your genealogy to see if rapier actually means that there were people who fought with spears?

No. Like really I only know maybe two generations and beyond that I, I don't know like any of our family history.

So tell me about your history. Like, like how you actually got into this.

So born in Oregon, we moved to. My parents were missionaries. We moved to Germany when I was 5 years old.

Early on in life, German kindergarten, like didn't speak a lick of German. My parents threw me into a German kindergarten. Did K through 6th grade all in German schools. Then did about a half a year of school stateside. That was first time going to an English speaking school was in Los Gatos, California and then we moved to Swaziland in Southern Africa. So it's actually, they changed the name so it's called Swaziland. It was called Swaziland. Now it's called Eswatini.

Okay.

So I loved it over there. It was a phenomenal time of my life. We were only there for about two years. Basically Swaziland is surrounded by South Africa and Mozambique. So it's a tiny little kingdom in the mountains. It's super cool place. So we're there then for the last couple years of high school, we moved to Colorado Springs. And my goal had always been to go to West Point. I really wanted to do that. And then come about my junior year, I started wrestling, started drinking. Getting off of the path was not very serious about my faith and my grades tanked and I just did not want to do anything college. So I just started looking at what commando organization looked like, the hardest thing to get into and the highest likelihood of seeing action. So the day after I graduated high school, I joined the Navy and went through boot camp, corpsman A school and then went to buds. And then after a bunch of, after BUDS and a bunch of medical stuff, I checked into SEAL Team 3 in 96.

Okay.

And did a couple years there and then, and then spent the last 14ish years of my career at Dev Group and so had a great run. It was very.

So you're a Navy SEAL in the last 14 years. How did you say that? Dev Group.

Dev Group. So naval Special Warfare Development Group. Okay.

And what do you do in a situation like that?

Well, I mean, we had the.

Muslims flew the airplanes into our buildings and shortly after that we started deploying downrange. So yeah, a bunch of deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan. And yeah, it was a good, it was a good run. It was definitely, I mean, I, you know, I was honestly terrified that I wouldn't see action. I remember being a brand new guy at Seal Team 3 and looking at some guys that had been around 18, 19 years, had never done anything for real. And I was terrified that that would be me. And then fast forward a few years and we were doing stuff during initial invasion in Iraq, we were doing stuff multiple times a day. We'd just be hanging out at the airfield and all right, we got another target.

Yeah. So I really enjoyed my time. Got to work with some amazing Americans, you know, lost a lot of friends.

But overall it was just a great, you know, huge privilege to be able to, to work with, with men of that caliber and to be able to do cool work for, for the nation. Yeah, yeah.

Right now while I'm talking to you, there's I think seven Young human beings responsible for on the patio playing with balls. Did you have a family would you were doing this or did the family come?

Not. Not when I started. So I think I was 13 or 14 years active duty when I got married. And then we did not waste any time. Like, we started having kiddos right away, but I think we only had four when I. By the time I retired.

Yeah.

So last three were born in Idaho.

Yeah, yeah. So I went out and did a course with you, you know, well, in the middle of nowhere, north Idaho, about two and a half hours. You actually drove there or drove here to my place from there.

Learned a ton. Just fed through the fire hose. I mean, I've done a couple courses like the Sheepdog, Tim Kennedy's course, and.

There was one other just real basic firearms type of course. But that was a whole new thing. Learning close quarter combat and drawing your gun and shooting at something two feet away and the knife work and, you know, wrestling around with, you know, dummy guns and dummy blades. It was an incredible experience. But one thing I kind of picked up on was that it seems like, like you have one of your sons. Billy was there, you know, training with all the guys. It seems like you start your kids off at a pretty early age learning a lot of this stuff.

Absolutely. So as far as firearms training goes, that's one of the first things, like with the little ones, once they're old enough to begin. No, no training. Right. An unloaded pistol will go on the table. What is that? That is a big no, no. What happens if you touch it? Spanking.

Right.

They don't need to know anything further than that.

Okay.

And then as they get older and they'll see me in the house dry firing or loading at the beginning of the day or unloading at the end of the day, they might say, dad, can I hold the pistol? And we don't want to make it this crazy thing that like, is always an evil thing to touch.

Right.

We want to teach them about it just like.

Because you don't want to create a forbidden fruit. For sure.

Yeah. We don't want it to be this thing that like. Because they're. They know where.

Where the questions are that some parents who award their children with their 16th birthday with their first phone and then, you know, tell them they can only get 60 minutes. They almost like make the phone so special a thing that it turns into being something that kids abuse, like with our sons. We gave him a phone one night when we were heading out on a date and said to call us if anything happened or if they needed that. So it wasn't a big deal because if you make a thing a thing, it becomes a thing.

Yeah.

But at the same time, you want to create some respect around something, a weapon on the table.

And so I'll just take, you know, so when as they get older and they start going, hey, what dad, can I, can I hold your pistol? Absolutely. I'll clear it out, I'll show them how to do it. I'll talk through it. We'll go, go through the four fundamental rules of firearm safety. Right. And then I'll make them attempt to clear it as well so that they're pulling back on the slide and looking in there and showing me there's nothing in the chamber, there's nothing in the magazine. Well, and then I'll let them dry fire.

Yeah.

And I'll, you know, and I think so much for our kids, it's valuable to get it a bunch in short bursts. I mean, just like faith and anything that we really want to stick with our kids. It's not, hey, I'm going to do this one big course with them one time. It's, it's all the little five or ten minute lessons that they get throughout the week. Yeah. And so, and then it just progresses with that. And then I used to do more stuff where we would just go to the range and shoot kind of on our own time. And I've kind of gotten a little bit away from that with, with going out with, with all the younger boys and it's turned much more into, as they get older, it's kind of a big deal for them when they get to do their first actual course with me and then they get to wear one of our hats after they do the course.

Yeah.

And then, you know, like, I mean the two days ago I had to go 0 a new pistol and get, get some reps with something. And as I'm heading out, one of my boys, like dad, can I, can I come shoot? Yeah, I'm like, go grab your, grab your rifle and, and ammo and eyes and ears and meet me out on the range.

Yeah.

You know, because we can shoot on our property. So I just go down there and then he shot, shows up 10, 15 minutes later and you know, we talk through stuff and I'll coach him a little bit. But that was mostly, that was more of a me day of, hey, like, I've got some stuff that I need to work on and he's there and you know, but it, but that ends up being great. Because it's just little blocks. It's not this big forbidden fruit. It's just something we respect it. Just like we respect a tractor. Just like we respect, you know, driving a snowmobile or the kitchen knife.

Right.

We don't go tip on with something. We don't walk around randomly with the kitchen knife after cutting up onions. Right. There's just some basic rules that need to go with that.

Yeah. So what's your wife think about all this? Was she on board from day one? Hey, we're going to show our kids how to handle a weapon at an early age. And, you know, I don't even know if your older children carry as well, but, you know, I'm just curious if you and your wife have always been on the same page.

Well, not on.

Not on macro level stuff. Maybe on micro level stuff. Yeah. There might be times when. Okay, really, is this a good idea to do this or does he really need to go help you with the class again? So on the macro level, by the.

Way, kind of the reason I ask is women do tend to. Not to stereotype too much. They tend to be very defensive sometimes of their children, want to be protective of them. And usually it's the guy who needs to push the kids out to do dangerous things.

And so really to speak to the, you know, the wives.

Right.

Don't browbeat your wife to try and get her to carry or to like, you know, all of a sudden have this amazing situational awareness and have five knives on her sword and, you know, like, don't do that.

Right.

You need to. As men, we're supposed to lead in our families. It shouldn't be. Shouldn't be beating, you know, figuratively speaking, beating your wife up about not caring. You should just be encouraging her. And, and when there are teachable moments, I. E. Something crazy happens someplace or. I mean, we've had stuff where, you know, locally, to us, you know, ended up not being a. An actual thing, but some lady was like, pretty sure that some guy was like, casing them and like, you know, the white panel van was out front and you know, like a bunch of stuff where they ended up going, calling the cops and, and they said, yeah, this, like, we think this was an actual, like, setup. And, and just I remember laying there in bed with the wife and we're talking about this, and I go, that, that's happening to our daughter three hours ago. What's your move? She's like, I would wrestle him. I go, you're not a good wrestler wrestling.

Yeah.

You know, it's so it's one of those things where just like just having a blade on you, which, so that normally the blade is an easier sell for the ladies because it doesn't require having a special belt on. They can still wear yoga pants or whatever, whatever they want and they can tuck a little blade in. And you know what, if you're, if someone is getting into the vehicle holding your child and you have a knife, you can stop them. Right. Put it right in the subclavian and pull them back like you just created a handle. And you will. Absolutely. Right. You can actually save your child. Like that. You're not going to do that. I mean, unless they've done a bunch of jets and they're going to take the back and like choke them out. But even then, like if the other guy has tools, they lose. Yeah, that.

Yeah.

So these are the types of things that you have little conversations like that and then try to lead them to a point where, okay, maybe they'll, they'll carry a knife at least, or maybe they'll have a pistol in the car or in a purse. Right. And if it's. If just a public service announcement. If you're off body carrying, which is not as good as carrying on your body, you should never have a round in the chain.

Off body carry. Be like, I got this in my backpack, purse, fanny pack, whatever, man purse, whatever.

If it's not physically on your person, there should never be a round in the chamber because it's just too easy to forget about it. And then some kiddo comes and ends up making the gun go back.

Yeah. And I'm sure a few people are wondering. It's kind of possibly a dumb question, but you have a round in the chamber when you're carrying. Let's say like you said, the appendix is kind of like right down the, the front of the pants area. You ever get worried you're gonna like blow a ball off or I don't.

Send a round down your bag or something? I always say tongue in cheek when, when, when we're talking about draw strokes and reholstering. I always tell the guys, I'm like, hey, you guys that are appendix carrying, you've got a lot more on the line than I do. When I put my pistol away. Yeah. So it's straight finger gently putting it away, making sure there's no obstruction, you know, there's nothing going on as you're, as you're putting it away right there. Super important with modern holsters. It is a safe thing to do. I Still don't like comfort wise. I don't like appendix carrying. And then also for fighting, it's just not as good for fighting. Yeah, like there's some concealment pros with, with appendix, but it's definitely, it is not as good for fighting.

Yeah, let's say somebody is listening and they're, they're frequently in scenarios where there's people around, there's innocent people, there's people that might need to be decent defended. They, they live in a high risk area where they might not have immediate access to a cop or a security officer or some other personnel to help them and they have no clue where to get started with any of this stuff. Maybe they own a gun or a knife or something like that. But what are the steps to actually become proficient in this? Because the last thing you want is somebody, you know, hearing us talking on a podcast and say, all right, I'm going to get a gun and you know, shove it in my pocket when I take my wife out on a date tonight. So yeah, what, what are the steps that one goes through to become proficient?

So seek out first off, get quality equipment. Right. So that's a huge thing that I see. Guys that show up with their granddaddy's pistol and an ancient leather holster takes them way longer to learn. And honestly, they're more dangerous to themselves and the other people around them versus someone that shows up up with a modern striker fired pistol with an all Kydex holster. Right. So that, that's huge right there. We've got better technology than we did 100 years ago. Use a pistol that's better and then put it in a real holster and then go.

And one thing by the way I learned from you at that AMTAC course was just the way it feels in your hands and how big your hand. Like I showed up to your course with a Little Sig Sauer P365, you know, manual safety with iron sights on it. Since then I've actually, I've upgraded to a kit that you recommended that is much, much better and much more fun to work with. Awesome. But you know, I just figured, yeah, I gotta, I got a gun, this is all I need. But, but even that is dependent on size of your hands, how it feels.

So it's a huge thing that people do. They go, and they'll look at a pistol and they'll go, well, this is nice and light and small. So like I'm more likely to carry this. And so they end up buying a razor.

I literally got that. You're you're gonna laugh. I got that gun because it fit in my fanny pack.

Yes. Which it.

Which I've realized now would take me about two minutes to get out.

If you have to fanny pack carry, that could be a legitimate consideration. Yeah.

Well, I thought when I got it that if I didn't carry it in a fanny pack and I put it in a. In a holster under my belt, that.

I'd just shoot myself again. This is why.

This is why we train.

Yeah. So this is why we train. So I. I would tell guys, so start. Just go initially with a local range, find someone reputable locally and just go through. Have them talk you through the four fundamental rules of gun safety.

Right.

Safely holstering and unholstering your pistols. Safely going through a loading procedure and a unloading procedure.

Right.

Not pointing your weapon at people.

Right.

I mean, four fundamentals of gun safety. And then holstering on holstering. And then start working on accurate accuracy after that and speed of draw stroke. All those things. But honestly, like, the most important thing is still going to be awareness. Right? Awareness. And then 100% safety with tools. And the next would be clean draw stroke from concealment. Right. As we're looking at, like, actual things that we can practice.

Okay. And someone living in an urban area, like a city, they could get access to a gun range every once in a while to go out and practice these things. But then you can also dry fire.

Absolutely.

And that would just be something. Well, how often do you dry fire?

Multiple times every day.

Multiple times every day.

Well, I mean, it is my job to be able to shoot. So, like. But honestly, a lot of the guys that I know that are into.

Into training or will fall into that same category. So, like, at a minimum.

Right.

So my.

By the way, I did after I heard about that, so when I get up in the morning, I take the mag out of my gun, I bring it down here into my office. It's sitting on top of the printer. And I do at least. It's not a lot, but I dry fire about 10 times a day now. Just, you know, I have a little target. It sits on that. That table right there just to, you know, get the acquisition of the green light on the target and get a feel for what the trigger feels like. So I've been 100%, like a month and a half ago, and I'm already, you know, starting to weave that in. It just feels more natural.

Yeah. And. And kind of the, the, the why behind that is if today, later today, you have to shoot Someone to save a loved one's life. Wouldn't you rather be warmed up?

Yeah. Right.

And I mean, we all shoot better, you know, a couple mags into it.

Yeah.

So why not get those out of the way, get some of those dry fires out of the way by, by just dry firing every morning, right? Yeah. Over like everyone that ends up being good. They all the, the common denominator. They dry fire like crazy.

Yeah.

Right. So like I build in dry fires in between my workout sets. Right. I work out at home.

Sure. Like do it when your heart rate is up just, just to simulate like.

Doing, doing a bunch of kettlebell swings or coming off the pull up bar or doing dead or something.

I do that with my bow. I don't do that with the gun.

But man, it's been. That's a really, that's a good one right there. Because, because you can do it with high heart rate and when you're, when your forms are really pumped and especially with that dot gun, you just, you stare at what you want to dry fire at and then you squeeze that trigger and you'll see, you'll see any, any imperfection in your trigger squeeze. Yeah. So yeah, the more we can do that in different, different circumstances like that it's really, really valuable. I'll also practice with my, with blades.

Right.

Obviously with training, with training blades. So just what's a training blade? So training blade is just going to be an aluminum shape that's painted blue or actually we anodized them blue. And blue is universally within the military anyways. It's known as an inert color. Right. So a blue bomb or a blue hand grenade or anything like that. It's going to be something that's not actually going to go off. They're round. They're not. The tips aren't pointy. Right. They're rounded off. They're about a half inch shorter and they're not sharp at all.

So.

So we can actually practice drawing it. And if you screw up, right. Or you're practicing with your friends. We're not killing each other.

But they're tough. They don't break.

They're not gonna break.

Cause when we did that course you had like a timer and a piece of wood on the wall and we were having to draw and shove that thing into the wood. And I thought if it was a training blade, it was flimsy and would just snap. But it was super.

So that's why we don't run like plastic ones or rubber knives. You see that more with people that are like kind of practicing dueling where they're both squaring up with knives, which is not what we do. Like, we don't live in a culture where we. We get into ritualistic knife duels.

Right, Right. Like the chivalrous plywood battle in the park.

Knives, either if you're pulling a blade out, it's probably because people are already punching you, or you're stopping someone from drawing and then you're deploying your blade.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So someone can get a gun, join a range, get trained, learn the four fundamentals like you're talking about with a blade. Get a training blade. Seems like it would be harder to hunt down places to learn how to use a blade properly.

The knife stuff is definitely. And there's so much baloney that's out there. There's so much make believe stuff within. I mean, within all of martial arts.

Right.

I mean, sometimes it's embarrassing to even say martial arts, but when we actually look at. What's the root word? Martial, that means warlike. So martial art or warlike skills, when you start thinking of it that way, everything that we do in a class is actually martial art.

Right.

We're training to shoot that. That is a warlike skill that you're practicing when you're working arm drags into blade deployment or, you know, swimming under hooks into blade deployment. Right. Pummeling drill. Like all those things are martial skills. And yeah, on the blade side, it's much harder. Places to look would be either Sciat Kali or Atenza Kali. Those are the two top ones that I would recommend.

They're Kali.

Kali. Right. So Kali would be. It comes from the Philippines. It's just there. Like, you know, we say that stuff coming from Japan is karate, and there's.

A bunch of different types. I've heard there's like a whole Filipino knife fighting culture. Like, huge. That's. That's where you would.

Still have living. They still have living blade culture there. Where. Where they actually do have stuff where it's like, oh, like our families have a beef. Like, we're gonna duel with knives.

Seriously.

They have stuff like that.

Have you been there? To the Philippines?

No.

Have you trained with. With Philippines?

My teachers, fighters. That is their lineage with. With my teachers is from. From Sayoc is actually the name. Last name of a family.

Chris Sayak is. Was the. The founder of that system. And he's just. He kept it very martial, which is why I really like it. And the same thing with the atienzas. It's a very Martial very. Results based system. Okay, got it.

And then I'm assuming probably the easiest one to hunt down in your area would be Jiu jitsu. Would that be the form of physical training that you'd recommend?

As far as jets is a great one. Learning a martial art, I always tell guys it depends. So if time is of no factor and you're healthy, absolutely. Join jitsu school. You're going to get great stuff out of it. The downside of Jiu Jitsu is it takes a while. Right. I mean, like when I started doing Jiu jitsu, I had already wrestled for a few years. I was 23, 24, like, great shape. And it was multiple months before I actually ever caught someone in an arm bar that didn't want to get caught. Yeah, right. So a lot of men, especially professionals, like, they're, you know, they don't have two months or three months of every single night to do that. Now if you do, it's great, but even if you do, I would still recommend start with the gun stuff because if the goal is to make you as capable as possible as quickly as possible, we start with the one that has the highest roi. That's going to be gun stuff. Being able to pull your pistol out.

Being safe with our tools, being able to pull a pistol out, that's going to be the number one thing. And the number two thing is going to be being safe, being able to pull blade out.

Yeah.

Because that really complements when you're going for this pistol. Instead of just wrestling over this. I just anchor my pistol and draw blade.

Yeah.

And it's super hard. I mean, you do jitsu, right. It's hard to control both hands at the same time. And if I am, what am I doing offensively?

Right.

Like throwing headbutts and then trying to, you know.

Yeah.

Get you on the ground and isolate some sort of a, you know, side control. Isolate one of your arms with my knee. Just long enough to draw a tool.

Yeah. I think I remember that during one of the demo nights at your course, your gun, some of your gun just like slid onto the floor and I didn't even blink my eye. And you had a knife. I had no clue where it even came.

Huge thing. You got to work your transitions.

Right.

Because it will. Especially when you're pummeling, when you're grappling with people, like stuff is going to happen.

Yeah.

With your tools, you might get disarmed, you might do a clumsy draw stroke, or the other guy might have got his hand on the pistol first. And the pistol goes flying.

Yeah.

Right. So when that happens, we can't pause at all. We just need to go right into a strike and. Or a, you know, another weapons deployment.

Yeah. Little. Little bit of. Possibly a slightly esoteric question, but when you're thinking about this, knowing what, you know, are there mistakes or myths or miscalculations that people commonly make when it comes to this whole idea of self defense or preparedness or something that's permeated the industry that you just think is wrong?

Yeah, a lot of stuff. The biggest ones, probably the things that bother me the most, are when guys treat it like, okay, I've checked the box. Especially when you say preparedness, right. We start thinking the more the prepper side of things. And then, you mean like, I bought.

A gun and it's under my bed now?

Firearms check.

Yeah.

Right. Like that. That just bothers me. Like, so that's a huge one, guys not being in shape, right? Like, it's, it's, you know, the, the old, I don't need to know how to fight. I carry a.45.

Yeah.

Like, no, if you carry tools, you need to know how to fight better.

Right.

And so guys that are. I mean, that's when I talk through mindset talk and talk about preparedness, right? The physical things that we're doing, the number one thing there is be in shape.

Right?

Be healthy, be strong, have endurance, be able to fight.

Right.

Those are super, super important things.

So that idea that, hey, just because I carry a gun, I don't need to know how to fight, another one would be, well, don't bring a knife to a gunfight.

Actually, I want to take both.

Yeah, right.

I wanted that because there are things where that, you know, having a blade answers a question that the gun doesn't answer as well. Right. And they can be sneakier. Right. There's some good things that we can do with blades. So that would be one that is underemphasized transitions. Hugely underemphasized. Going from striking.

Right.

From a fistfight, from shielding to point pistol.

Yeah.

Pulling a blade out.

We did a lot of that at your course.

Huge. I mean, well, that's kind of like the main thing that, that I'm known for. The main. That's probably the biggest thing that we try and get across to people is what we call integrated combatives. Right. It's not just, okay, now I'm here.

That's what that means, is working with a lot of tools at the same time and transitioning between them.

So not thinking of yourself. As, oh, I'm a jits guy. Right. I'm just gonna. Right. I'm gonna go in and grapple with the guy. Or I'm a blade guy. I'm a stab. Or I'm a gun guy. I'm gonna shoot. Like, no, I'm. I do whatever it takes to win.

Yeah.

And that might be all three of those things, or it might just be. You know what? I see things are escalating, and I see that hand go down and I check your gun hand and I elbow you in the face two or three times and you fall down. I'm like, cool, we're done.

Let's.

Let's leave. Right. Again, that'd be higher level. When you didn't have to deploy lethal tools, you did, you know, just. Just hands.

Yeah.

Or elbows, in that case.

And then. Yeah. Not. Not maintaining a proficiency with tools. That's another huge one. I see all the time guys going, oh, I grew up around guns. That really means nothing.

Right?

That could mean guys that have trained at a super high level their whole.

Life with guns, shot skeet with the beer. Yeah.

You know, and that's what. That's how dad showed him. And, like, he's totally cool with. With drinking and. And sweeping people and.

Yeah. Right.

So. So that. That statement I've grown up around guns really means nothing. Right. You need to. I mean, it's just like anything else.

Right.

Like, if you want to be good at something, go and actually train.

Right.

Go do a training class. Go learn or watch YouTube videos. Like, you learn a bunch from. From a lot of that stuff.

Yeah.

Right. Get better, but be serious about it, because it's not just going to happen.

Yeah. Right. Careful with the YouTube video statement, though. There's. There's a lot of people who watch the UFC and think they can roll.

Yes.

That's. That's also permeated a lot of culture.

Yeah.

Too much time watching, not enough time doing. Yes. It kind of seems like you're a little bit of an anomaly because you've got seven kids. From what I understand, you're pretty active in your church. Like an elder.

Elder worship.

You lead worship. And you're also like this badass guy who can, you know, theoretically kill someone if you needed to, and you carry a blade and a gun.

Was that kind of like an evolving process for you to be a man of faith and involved in your church? Obviously you started a family pretty early, going from being a Navy SEAL to starting a family. But where did the whole church picture come in?

So I. And the more I understand about, you know, salvation, the more it's maybe a little bit harder to phrase but I remember saying the sinner's prayer as a five year old. Right. I remember sitting next to a kid in the back seat of my parents car and going, are you going to heaven? And then quickly saying the sinner's prayer and saying, I am now. Yeah, yeah.

All right. Shared to that box.

Yes.

So there's really. So I remember, you know, I grew up in the faith, you know, parents are believers and man, that's, that's another one that the older I get, the more I'm just so grateful that, you know, God put godly parents in my life.

Mine too. It wasn't perfect, but I mean just, just growing up with an appreciation for say like absolute morality and the ten Commandments I think is, it's been very stabilizing, very, very important.

But honestly I wasn't super serious about my faith. Right. I was very peaks and valleys and you know, kind of started partying a little bit when I was in high school. First few years in the team, same thing. Like I honestly I making it through buds, making it into the seal teams was an absolute idol in my life. Like that was the most important thing. I was still going to church sometimes when it was convenient, but I'd sure prayed a lot going through hell week and when things were hard. So there was never an absolute rejection of faith. It was just more of like, you know what? I'm kind of doing stuff that I know is sinful and I like doing it and I'm you know, basically like in rebellion. And then I was driving back from Colorado, you know, middle of the night, driving through Arizona or New Mexico, somewhere in the desert. I just remember thinking to myself, man, like theology wise, I don't believe that you can lose your salvation. Which I'm very firm in that belief.

Now meaning like for, for people who may not know exactly what you mean. Like if you persevere, let's say a Christian and you, you were saved and you believe in Jesus Christ and you had your sins forgiven, that you can't go off in sin and lose that.

Salvation if you truly are. Right. So that would fall.

With the kicker being a lot of times it's much more difficult to go out and fall off the deep end if you truly are saved.

Yes. So we call that perseverance of the saints.

Right.

That if you truly are a believer, you're not going to fall away from Christ.

But then we'll see. Sometimes people that are Professing Christians that do. And so the way I view that is they were never really of us.

Right.

Which the Bible talks to that, otherwise they wouldn't have departed. Departed from us. Right?

Yeah. Right.

Yeah. Just looking at it as, you know, John six, you know, if it's. If it's all God to begin with, right. Then. Then I'm not opting out of this.

Right.

God has, you know, made me a new creation in Christ and I. Right. And I truly am a new creation and I'm not going to go off the deep end and renounce my faith if that truly is the case. Now, there's a lot of people that pretend and then do. But anyways, a little bit of a rabbit hole there on soteriology. So I just remember praying and going, God, please give me a desire to want to change because I was having fun doing the stuff that I was doing and I really didn't want to, but I just remember thinking, man, no one, like, I believe I'm a Christian, but no one would look at my lifestyle and go, yeah, he's a believer. He's a Christ follower. And so started praying and God gave me a desire and he did.

Right.

And I remember reading the Bible like it was the first time and just going, oh, wow, this is how I'm supposed to live.

Even though you'd already read it a bunch.

I mean, I grew up in the. I grew up in the faith, right. And you know, I sat there every Sunday, right. In Sunday school and all that stuff. And. But it was like, it was brand new to me. And so, yeah, it's just been on a path of sanctification since then. Right. So not. Right. Obviously. Not perfect. Still screw up quite a bit.

But, yeah, definitely have gotten much more serious about my faith. And then, you know, when I came out here to Idaho, you know, initially was asked to be a deacon and then that. Man, that led to crazy growth just because, you know, when you're in leadership, right. You're under the gun a lot. And now I'm an elder and get to preach a couple times a year and, you know, teach our Father son ministry. And it's just been a great.

Yeah, I've grown immensely in my faith. And, you know, a huge part of that is it was just a very practical thing. I went from listening to music on runs or workouts or random podcasts or audiobooks to listening to preaching. And it's like, man, it's been so, you know, I mean.

And it's like, man, it's been so, you Know, I mean, Doc MacArthur just passed away recently. That man, such a huge impact on my life.

Yeah.

Doug Wilson, one of your guys here. You know, like, I just like, I'll be on the pull up bar listening to his blog and mayblog stuff. And it's like the way I describe.

It, so encouraging is it's our prerogative to be able to defend the hope that is within us. And every hour is spent with a podcast, you know, on whatever investing or business or fitness or music. There's, you're, there's some lost opportunity.

Yeah. And so just, you know, I'm not saying there are some parts of the.

Workout where it gets hard to listen to a certain. For sure.

Yeah, for sure. No, there's, there's times when I'm still like, man, I just need some angry music right now. But I like. Yeah, so that, that's just, that's been a huge thing that's really helped my, my walk and just my like, you know, working out. Some of the harder stuff about the faith is just listening to godly men preach and just, you know, go through God's word.

Yeah. You might also be the first person to say soteriology and Filipino knife fighting on my podcast in the same episode.

Dr. Garthur just passed away recently. That man such a huge impact on my life.

Yeah. So with the, with the courses that you do, I mean if you go to your website AMTAC, I'll link to all this@BenGreenfieldLife.com AMTAC AM T A K. If you go to your website or MTAC.

Thank you. What's it stand for?

American Tactical Shooting Instruction. Which is quite the mouthful. So within the first year guys started just calling us AMTAC.

Yeah. So BenGreenForLife.com AMTAC.

When you go there and you click on like your events, your courses, some of it looks pretty gnarly. I mean like carbines and vehicles and you know, stuff that looks like you'd have to be super advanced to get into. I think probably most of the people listening to this show want to start off with something they can, they can really handle. Maybe, maybe they do know the basic fundamentals of shooting. But what would be a good kind of like starting course for someone if they're looking through your, through your courses?

Almost any of our pistol classes would be the way to go, minus like a low light class. Right. Better to not start off shooting at nighttime. But pretty much all of our pistol classes and we have shoot probably seven or eight different flavors which which they're all going to have some things that are going to be, you know, consistencies.

Right.

On almost all of our classes we're going to do some level of pistol fundamentals and then there's just different, different flavors. I like we've got a class where the focus is on shooting a smaller pistol than you would normally carry or shooting at nighttime or doing force on force drills, like stuff where someone's actually trying to stop you from drawing and then learning how, how do I fight through this?

That's what force on force.

Force on force would just be. Yeah, like we, we, we get tooled up with all training gear on and then we'll go through specific things. And, and I'm very cautious to, to. Right. I, I don't want people to get hurt. Right. The whole idea is you come to a class and you leave more capable. If you end up being injured, you're less capable.

Yeah.

Right. So I'm take that very, very seriously not to get guys injured during training. So we might set up. Okay. We're going to do a little bit of an opposed draw stroke. So I'm just, we're going to stand here either inside a reactionary gap or just outside a reactionary gap. And when you see me go, when you see me try to draw, you're just going to try and stop me. Don't punch me in the face or anything, but you're just going to try and grab my pistol and not let me pull my pistol out. We'll just rep that and it's a great. And you'll see like, you know, you'll get it clean a bunch of times and then you'll fumble a little bit and like, and then it's a little bit of wrestling match and you got to figure out, well, how do I actually clear this right. And deal with drawing under pressure. So that's really where I try to always get guys start with something pistol and pistol combatives related because that's the most applicable to your life.

Right.

I mean it's good to know how to use a carbine, it's good to know how to shoot distance, but you're way less likely to do that.

Yeah, you're right.

I mean your pistol is something that, hey, you can go to a class, you can have your tools. You feel confident with this. And now, man, that's, that's a huge capability leap that you've just made. That's applicable right now.

Yeah, right.

No, I'm going to carry now. From now on I'm carrying my Pistol.

Right.

And now I'm aware and I'm. I'm tracking on stuff that's going on.

Right.

And now that's, that's an actual. You are more of an asset to your family.

Right.

If you are safe with your tools and you carry tools and.

Do people have to come all the way to north Idaho or you.

No, we go all over the country and then we actually just started an online program called amtactraining.com so it's a much lower barrier to entry. We do a 30 to 40 minute video every month. And so we have curriculum that we're focused on each month. And so that's been a cool thing. We just started that back in June. We've got guys all over the country that are participating with that. I do live Q&As on that as well. And it's just. Honestly, it's been a great like. Like, it's encouraged me because every day, I mean, we're driving down here and I'm posting for the guys. I'm like, this is what I did for fitness today.

Yeah.

And there's been multiple days where I would have done less fitness, but I'm like, they will know.

Yeah, right.

Like the. And so guys, that's.

That's like the 4am in the ice tub post. Yeah, people know.

Exactly. People know that like, oh, I slept in that day. So. So that's been a. I'm actually very.

Careful about that in social media. Not. Not to post myself into a corner that I. That I don't want to stay in. Yeah.

Yeah. And this is just like, this is really small form social media.

It is.

You know, it is our own app now. But yeah, it's. It's a group of guys that are all into training and shoot. They're watching the videos that we put out and then they'll video themselves doing. And so it's been a.

Cool.

I didn't know you were doing that.

Pretty cool.

Yeah.

We just started AMTAC training.

Amtactraining.com our app is available on both.

I have an app too.

Yeah, both Apple and, and the Google one.

Make sure I note this. I want to include that in the show notes. So when you walk into a room, are you like looking for specific threats? Like, I've kind of wondered this, let's say like you're taking your wife out to a restaurant on a date night. Like, are. Are you one of those guys walking into the room and looking at like, where's the exit? Is my seat facing the wall? Or the people. Like, are there certain things that you think people should think about?

Yeah, I think you should. When you walk into a room, it should just be. And again, this is not some crazy thing.

I mean, by the way, right now you've probably heard the sandbags in the window.

Yes. And all my boys are out there.

Yeah. There are some things, right? Like I walk into a room, the first thing you should look and you go, okay, are there any overt threats? And this would be the same thing. Just like, you do this without thinking about it. When you cross the road, right before you step out into the street, you're looking, hey, are there any. Am I going to get run over? Right? So this is just the same thing. It's just a little bit different scale. Where you walk into the restaurant now and you're like, okay, a guy. Is there, you know, a group of outlaw motorcycle gang guys drinking? Yeah, over here. If that's the case, you know what, maybe let's go someplace else. Yeah, right. Or is there just the, the lone drunk that's at the bar that's like drinking too much and talking too loud? Okay, we just, like, it's probably not going to be an issue. We just note that stuff. Right. And then. Yeah. I would not sit with my back to the, you know, to, to a door. Like, I'm definitely gonna try and sit in a spot where I can see what's going on. And my wife knows this now too, so, you know, like. And she lets you pick the chair first, guys. I mean, you can lead. You can be gentlemanly with this as well. You look at the table, you know where you want to sit, and then you get the chair for your wife.

I'm a little similar, but I think in my case it's because I like to. People watch, I observe people. So it's less of a security move as much as an entertainment move, but I get it. So one more kind of like esoteric big picture question. You live in Idaho. It seems like Idaho is a pretty safe state to live in. But do you think that America as a whole, when it comes to having a lot of the skills that you have or making a priority to learn the type of skills you. That you have, do you think America is becoming a safer place? Is it less safe? Has it changed at all? Do you think this is something that's increasing as far as importance and need? Has it gotten better with, say, Trump, for example, or what are your thoughts on the whole political landscape when it comes to safety, particularly?

I mean, I'm Happy with the direction that the overall leadership of the country has taken. And so that's good. But that doesn't change the hearts of men.

Right.

Overall, like, we still have so many people that are just turning away from. From Christianity, turning away from God's law, and that doesn't change just because, you know, a different guy got voted in. Yeah, right. And, yeah, so I. I would definitely encourage guys go out and train. You know, whether you train with me or any of the other guys that are reputable guys and industry. Go and train. I mean, it's just. It's one of those. There's not a whole lot of downsides to it. Yeah, right. I mean, most of the guys that I know that do this, they really enjoy it. They go out. Right. It ends up being. I mean, that's honestly one of the things that I enjoy most about it as well, is just I get to see fronts, right. I meet cool people, and now it's like little mini reunions. I go, you know, go see the guys in Atlanta, and, you know, we're barbecuing, and, you know, it's just cool. You, like, you get to see some of these guys once a year, and. And then those guys become friends with each other. So it ends up being something that's like. It's kind of a cool thing to just go and do.

And I would imagine it's also kind of rewarding to, like, go to a place and leave and knowing that you're leaving people, like, more prepared or more capable.

Sure, yeah.

Like a new pocket of people who can protect others in their area, their community, their city.

It's not just. Right. It's not just violence.

It's also.

Medical stuff. I mean, I had a student and he called. I was hanging out with other students. He's a guy from Pennsylvania. He calls and, like, I was with students, so I didn't take the call. And then. And then I see the voicemail pop up and. And he goes, hey, I put an ax into my leg earlier today, and I wanted to call and say thank you. And I immediately, like, I get through that and I, you know. Yeah, you know, call back. And he was splitting wood and put an ax into his leg, and he said by the time he looked down, his boot was filling up with blood. And he reached into his pocket and pulled a tourniquet out and applied the tourniquet.

I forgot that that's one thing you taught us. Just, like, always have a tourniquet on.

And, man, you know, so. And he. And he called me Just to say thanks. And so it's like, that's a huge, you know, that's actually happened within my family now where one of my boys applied a tourniquet to one of my other boys.

Yeah.

So just stuff like that is, is hugely rewarding. Right. It will. This is why I say, like, I don't see a whole lot of downside to doing training. Right. If you, if you end up never needing it, awesome. But if that one time comes that you needed it, man, you, like, you can't train then.

Right.

You can't train in the moment.

Right.

You won't rise to the occasion. Right. We fall to the level of training that we have.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, you're doing a good job. I learned so much out of your AMTAC course. And I'll link to that for people who are, who are listening or watching. BenGreenfieldLife.com AMTAC A M T A C. I'll link to Bill's online training as well. It's fun to watch what he's doing and if you get a chance to take a course, definitely check it out. Bill, ready to go play some cornhole and eat some food or whatever they're doing out sound.

That's good. Awesome.

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