The Deer on the Wall Isn't a Trophy | Adam Wenguer

It's not easy to take a life, but if you do it properly, I guess it's God's will in a sense.

Yeah.

What I don't like is the trophy hunting where you're like, "Fuck." If you are actually harvesting the animal and eating it as close as nose to tail as possible, keeping the mount or the hide or the head or something like that and even displaying it in a prominent location is just a memory of the hunt.

There's something about seeing the animal. It's a spiritual, like, deep experience when you do it and you're sitting with it after the hunt and you've harvested the animal. It's a deep reminder to your soul. It is a really special experience. When I see you guys doing it, father and son, this is like something I can't wait to do.

Welcome to the Grand Hunting Lodge podcast. This is a big hunting lodge. We are surrounded by— what do we got, guys? Lion, uh, many, many whitetail deer. Maybe a bongo, uh, some kind of alligator, uh, several alligators, uh, a big bear back there. So in case you are wondering if we got caught by the local county zoo, uh, we are actually hunting in Florida. We're on a hunting and spearfishing trip in Florida. And, uh, in case you're wondering who all is sitting here on this plush leather couch with me, so we make shifts the wrong way. It's not because we have gas, it's the leather, it's leather. I'm sinking into this thing. Uh, say hello, left to right, introduce yourselves. Here we go.

My name is Taren Greenfield. I am this guy's son. And, uh, should I say what I shot as well?

We'll get into the hunting in a little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll get there.

There you go.

There you go. His original son. Original son. All right, and then me. Hello, Ben Greenfield. You guys know me. And to my right, Adam Winger. Adam Winger, who actually is a, what, 3-time podcast guest if you count this one? Yeah, yeah. So, uh, Adam is is actually from Florida. I'll link to his other episodes. He's kind of like the resident expert on all things cannabis, Cannabidiols, and we've done episodes on fertility, on—

Everything. Jiu-Jitsu, ayahuasca. Jiu-Jitsu. Hunting.

Yeah, hunting. Black belt in jiu-jitsu too, right?

Thank you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Cool.

So, we are here in Florida for a couple of reasons. I thought it'd be super fun to go on a father-son trip and I actually kind of Got this trip for my sons for their 18th birthday, and then I reached out to Adam and I'm like, dude, like, we kind of like to just go hunt somewhere other than Idaho. Not that we don't have great hunting in our backyard. So you've got, you've got a, you had some ideas about Florida hunting.

That's actually something we spoke about, hunting gators, hunting wild boar. A little bit different than what you would expect.

Yeah.

And I think our first podcast we talked about it light bulb went off. Yeah, yeah, I could see the interest in your eyes, you know. Yeah.

Um, so Adam was kind of boots on the ground down here in Florida, found this cool ranch. We're actually at this place called Lightsey Family Ranch, and we have been hunting for the past couple of days, axis deer, black buck, gator, and hog primarily, and it's been a blast. Um, so the, the thing that inspired this trip was, uh, this book River and Terran, you guys remember that book we went through by Sahil Bloom?

Yes.

"Five Types of Wealth." Yeah, "Five Types of Wealth." Good memory. You get an A on the quiz. And, in that book, there's a viral infographic that basically suggests that— I forget, I'm going to make up the statistic. It's like 90% or 95% or something like that of the time that you will spend with your children is done with by the time that they're 18 years old. So, River and Terran and I have been working on this idea for a project of— because they're 18 now as of what, guys?

March 19th.

March 19th, like guarantees. And so, they're 18 now as of the time of this recording. And we weren't a big fan of the idea that we weren't going to see each other much after they turned 18 and that over 90% of the time that you're going to spend with your kids is done with by the time they're 18.

Every moment's got to be boarding with the kids.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's stages, chapters. And we wanted to defy the status quo and create this project in which River and Taren and I go on a series of adventures including this one that we're on right now as a way of needing to work together, face challenges together, go on adventures together, do creative projects together. And coming out of 2 years of doing that, Write a guide for fathers and sons to bond through life. So, what all do we have lined up, guys?

Skydiving.

Skydiving.

Gonna make some traditional bows.

Long recurve bows.

We're gonna race race cars in Seattle, I think. Yeah. Well, she's— what have you done that before?

Off-road race car driving. Yeah, I went to race car driving school a long time ago. Made me a better driver, I think. Mom would disagree, but—

We'll see on those gravel back roads. Yeah. Okay.

We're doing open mic comedy night. We're writing a children's book. We're doing— we're taking cooking classes in Vietnam. There's a couple more in there that are part of the project. But anyways, over the series of each of these adventures, we're going to write, not with AI per se, but we want to write actual real human stories from the trenches about how each of these adventures went. So we're on our first one now and we promise more episodes in the future as we go through this, hopefully to inspire you parents to spend more time with your kids, whether they're kids, whether they're teens, whether they're adults, and give you some cool ideas. So as we talk, all the show notes are going to be at bengreenfieldlife.com/floridahunt, and I'll link to, uh, your previous podcast episodes, Adam, as well. Yeah, you guys had a podcast. You had your own podcast for how long?

We did. Oh man, uh, I don't know, 4 years.

Tell people about that one.

Go Greenfields. What do you mean you haven't heard about Go Greenfields? It was a little cooking podcast that we had. I think it started out we were reviewing restaurants and it kind of evolved from there and we went into cooking all sorts of things. We made, I think we made python at one point. Yeah.

Insects, crickets.

We never made gator though. Yeah, we never. Oh yeah, that's true. Yeah.

Coach Jader, only God makes gators. And well, Elon Musk might try someday. And yeah, they did this cooking podcast for a while, interviewed chefs, did restaurant reviews. For a little while, we thought it might just be a good way for us to get discounts at restaurants and coming in and doing a recording.

I don't know if that never happened, actually.

Never happened, not once. But the chefs came out a few times to talk with us, which was cool.

We interviewed the chefs a couple of Spokane-based chefs.

Yeah, yeah, back in Spokane, uh, Spokompton. All due respect to Spokane, we love you still, but Idaho is better. Anyways though, um, that, that podcast is done. And tell people what you guys are up to now.

Uh, we, we turned off the podcast after we started making card games, which is our gig now, along with a few other things. This guy's into— well, what are you into? I'm doing real estate right now. Yeah, he's doing real estate. He's a real estate agent.

Well, you don't have like your license yet, right? You're working on it.

I'm working on it. He's an unlicensed real estate agent.

Yeah. And, uh, Fried Pickle Games is the—

that's right, Fried Pickle Games.

Is it friedpicklegames.com?

Friedpicklegames.com is correct.

Go live ASAP because my kids are gonna love this. Yeah, love it.

First game, Fart of War. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Yeah, every bedtime story I tell my son now, there has to be a mention of like 3 or 4 farts so he can laugh enough to go to sleep. Yeah, perfect.

Yeah, laugh enough to go to sleep.

Storybook.

Your, your son's ideal.

New business prospect. Yeah, is this opportunity?

So I wanted to, uh, to talk a little bit about hunting because I know it's super controversial. I mean, like Adam, you used to get reamed for putting some of your photos up on Instagram.

Yeah, I did.

Did you?

It was a weird thing, you know. I took so much pride in it because I grew up in a city and hunting was so different and it was such a special experience for me. And I would post about it and then the comments were just brutal, brutal. I can't even say half the things on the podcast that people would write me. And I didn't really understand it. I had to kind of get in other people's shoes about the whole thing. But it is a really special experience. When I see you guys doing it, father and son, this is like something I can't wait to do.

Yeah.

Did you ever realize that when you post a fish, it's like crickets?

Yeah.

Nobody says anything.

Fish and insects are okay. Yeah. As well as all of the small animals that die during the harvesting of the massive amounts of plants and grains necessary to follow a strict plant-based diet. I don't want to get super deep into the politics of that. But life is taken for us to have calories and cuisine and food on a constant basis, whether you're a carnivore or a plant-based eater. It's just a fact of life. I don't know, maybe it won't be that way in heaven. We'll see.

Yeah.

I like to think that there'll be ribeye steaks in heaven.

I know.

We have sharp teeth right now. I mean—

Let's see. Yeah.

Um, results of the fall. But I think, you know, I would love to hear, hear from you guys. Like, you know, if you're sitting next to somebody on an airplane who doesn't hunt, or you're talking with somebody who, who hasn't hunted before, like, why it is that, that, that's a part of your life, or why it is that you do it, or why it is that you think it's, it's okay to do.

Let me think. That's a tough question, actually. If I was sitting next to somebody on a plane and they asked why I hunted, I'd probably say that, well, number one, it is good to know where your meat came from. And it's good to know that it was sourced ethically. And if you do it in an ethical manner, I think your conscience is pretty free. But also it tastes very good. It's another thing, like especially gamey venison. It's a taste you don't get. It's a flavor you don't get in most restaurants, most societies. I don't know though, that is a tough question because for me, I can't get behind somebody saying it's unconscious or unconscionable. That's it.

Um, it's a big word, unconscionable.

Unconscionable.

In the grocery store.

Yeah, that's what you're supposed to do.

I mean, yeah, it's just, it's kind of cutting out a middleman in some sense, but it's not that different from what— how much society eats meat, like 80%, 90%?

Uh, yeah, we'll make up a stat.

I don't know how much it's to say, but it's probably a lot.

Um, yeah, I think what you're getting at, Taren, is, is there is a sort of disconnect for many people when you're eating a burger, let's say a fast food restaurant, how that meat was harvested and where it came from. And I know that when we're talking about like CAFO food lots or cattle ranches, that's a different scenario than hunting, but just the idea of understanding from the, from the field or wherever the animal is to your plate, some of the processes that go on behind that, I think, give you a greater appreciation for what you're eating. I mean, even when I sit down to have a burger at a restaurant versus, let's say, a roast from an axis deer or something like that that we shot, it's a different experience. You appreciate—

Bring us back memories.

What it took to get it there. You appreciate the life of the animal more, in my opinion. And you have a deeper relationship with the food that you're consuming as far as its sourcing and what it took to get it to your plate. You're not hunting steaks and sausages and ribeyes. You're literally hunting a whole animal that then has a great deal of forethought and processing put into it before it actually makes it to your plate.

Yeah.

So, I don't know. What would you say, River?

I enjoy hunting. I think it's a super fun adventure. For anyone who hasn't done it, it's unique and it's different from a lot of other hobbies that people can do. The thrill of the hunting, the difficulty, at least with archery, that I found I really enjoy. And then kind of like what you said, just the appreciation that you get from eating the meal. I get a greater appreciation cooking a meal, and I get an even greater appreciation when I actually hunt the meat that I can then cook, that I can then eat. So it's, um, I don't know, it's like a, it's a whole experience that's just unique and fun and different, and I love it. Yeah.

And the preparation that you put into it. Like, when we're hunting elk this September in Idaho, we will literally be like wearing rucksacks going up and down the steep hill behind our house. We'll be shooting with our heart rate high. You know, there, there's a lot that goes into it. You just don't basically put on camouflage and go walk out there. I mean, you've been shooting your bow in many cases, if that's your weapon of choice, or you've been sighting in your rifle. You've been, you know, learning everything about scent to tracking, to if you're using a lot of the digital hunting apps now, where you're going to go, what the wind is like, what the topography is like. I mean, there's a great deal of studying that goes into it. And when we're in a place like this where we show up and we don't know the territory, you know, at a place like this, you have guides who are helping you know where to go and where the animals are, et cetera. But there's still preparation involved, you know, just, just in terms of getting ready to take an ethical shot, for example.

Deepan, you said something really interesting about the appreciation for the animal, the appreciation for the life of having to take it so it can give you sustenance. But I always found also— this is why I got into hunting— it made me appreciate my own life, knowing that my ancestors had to do this, their ancestors, so far down the line for me to sit here and do that. And it makes you so grateful. And, uh, it's funny because hunting, like, I always thought, why am I doing this? I was always drawn And is it the challenge? Is it wanting to eat sustainable food or do it the way our ancestors did it? Healthy food. And I always found, I guess, growing up in a city that it was about like regulation and like adaptability because in a city you're like hit with stress all day and it's not like a natural stress. The people like my great-great-grandparents, what was their stress like? And you know, and this brings me closer to that.

Smallpox, polio.

Yeah.

I mean, like. We're hunting hogs. It's not like we're sitting from 50 yards away. The hog could get you. I mean, we experienced that last night.

We have one rush out. We were hunting with dogs and knives in the dark last night after big hogs, and there was at one point where there's a massive hog, you know, I was shining my flashlight right in this deep hole in the bushes and it just came rushing out at us, uh, big and awesome. The dogs like several feet into the air over and over.

Yeah.

Yeah, the dog wearing it. Look, the dog was literally wearing a Kevlar vest and he was happy. He kept going.

Oh yeah, going.

He still got nicked though in the butt a little bit.

Yeah, yeah. But you know, the— I think one of the things that you can't get away from even as a hunter, and I think this is like a misconception for a lot of people, if you do want the cleanest meat possible, right? Because a lot of people get worried about like toxins and, you know, has the animal been eating corn and grain? Has it been exposed to herbicides or pesticides, etc.? If you really truly want the cleanest meat possible, whether it's fish, which we'll talk about later on, or animals, you're looking at hunting or harvesting or catching something that has been in a very tightly controlled environment from a feed standpoint. Even when we're hunting whitetail out in Idaho, it's great meat, but yet you still at the back of your mind know that that deer probably at some point wandered onto a farmer's field and possibly was feeding on whatever pesticide-infused alfalfa or something like that. It's, I think, a legitimate concern. I think it depends on the area that you hunt. But I mean, we do, like for fishing, most of the fish that we eat is actually farmed fish. We get it from this company called Seatopia, and it's just clean fish that they've controlled the feed on. So, you know you're not getting a lot of metals and microplastics. I don't think there's a good way around the idea that when you're hunting, you still don't have complete control, I guess, unless you're hunting in the Himalayan mountains or something.

Letting go of control, right? Yeah. Yeah.

And for me, the pros outweigh the cons. I think you are, no matter where you're eating your food, going to get exposed to a certain amount of chemicals. And that's where you get into the health concept of do you have a regular sauna practice? Do you have regular bowel movements? Do you detox your body? Do you Do you move on a regular basis to move lymph through the body? A lot of people now are into the concepts. I don't say you have to do this, but plasma filtration and blood filtration at the higher echelon. But yeah, it's a legitimate concern and I don't have the perfect answer for it because you are hunting animals that are in the wild and you don't have complete control over it. But I think if you're pretty smart about where you hunt and you have certain parameters that you follow, I don't think it's a huge issue. But it is one that a lot of people ask me about, and I don't have a perfect answer for it, really.

No, if you have the choice, that's okay, you go for it, right? You go for the healthier areas, the animals that aren't as high in heavy metals and whatnot. Yeah, I learned to just not stress it that much. That's been like the biggest thing for me. I'm not like trying to change the topic, but like even with CBD, people go, what made you get into CBD? What made you get into CBD? And I'm like, I wasn't into CBD, I was into how can I regulate my nervous system. Yeah, how can I come back to, I guess, a controlled state from a high stress level being in a city. And I'm realizing it's jiu-jitsu, like we were talking about, hunting, fatherhood to young kids. Stress hits us so many ways. Like, how can we tone that down?

Yeah, yeah. And then the other thing, I think, like the elephant in the room here, literally and figuratively, uh, surrounded by mounts on the wall, is the idea of, of trophy hunting, right? It's like people like, well, if you're out there and you're doing this to have a deeper relationship with your food and to get meat and do so in a primal way, then why are you saving the mounts, the hides, the horns, et cetera? My take on this is that if you are actually harvesting the animal and eating it as close as nose to tail as possible and truly using it and not doing as some hunters actually do, so-called safari hunters or grip and grin photo hunters, just getting a photo and not even doing any harvesting, which sadly happens sometimes, that keeping the mounts or the hide or the head or something like that and even displaying it in a prominent location is just a memory of the hunt. I think, in my opinion, if you really are using the animal, that it's more honorable to the animal. I mean, it technically lives on in perpetuity on your wall. I know some people don't like to look at the, you know, the sad eyes, but I don't really have a problem with it if you're using the actual animal. I, I— what I don't like is the trophy hunting where you're like discarding the meat, you know?

That's brutal.

Oh yeah, there's a lot in African hunting. Yeah, it's hard to bring meat back.

Yeah, yeah.

There's something about seeing the animal. It's a spiritual, like, deep experience when you do it and you're sitting with it after the hunt and you've harvested the animal. Being able to see it later, it's a deep reminder to your soul. You know, it's not easily forgotten when it sees you every day.

Yeah, yeah. And then, uh, you know, the, the, the issue that I think people also wonder about as well— why are you going outside of your backyard to hunt? You know, because we've hunted in Florida and Hawaii and Texas, and I've hunted in Colorado and New Mexico. Yeah, technically, from like a pure environmental sustainability standpoint, you are burning jet fuel and it costs a little bit to ship the meat back in coolers to your house. But I think it's part of adventuring on this just massive planet Earth that we have with so many different species and so many different pockets of nature that going outside of your immediate zone to hunt, I don't really have an issue with that either. I mean, yeah, there's a bigger carbon footprint, but But I think in the same way that many people will travel to different locations to hike instead of just hiking up mountains in their own backyard or travel to different places to go to restaurants instead of just eating at the restaurants in their own city, that traveling to hunt is, to me, it's not really an issue again, especially if you're actually doing it to still at the end of the day be reaching into your own freezer or refrigerator back home and using the meat that you've shipped or brought back.

You know, I was really big into metabolic typing years ago, like 20 years ago.

Yeah, you remember that?

And it would talk about like trace your genetics to see what's best for you. And at this point, I mean, your parents, where were they from? So many different places across the globe, I'm assuming.

Yeah, I'm a mutt.

Yeah, exactly.

We're all much— you guys are mutts. River and time.

True.

So dietary variability is very important too. We can't just eat— we're in the U.S. now, right? What are we gonna eat that's in our backyard? We can't eat that all the time. So I think this fuels our genetics and our— the variability that's required of us.

Yeah. And what I don't think any of you are saying, like, you have to hunt, but I'm saying if you want to hunt, and even if you want to, like, travel to hunt, and even if you want to have, have a mount or a trophy after you've hunted, I, I think that it's something that can be very character building. It's a great adventure. And again, just like the relationship with your food and the ability to experience the planet Earth in a different way put it, I think, pretty high up for me on the list of activities I'll likely do my entire life. What do you guys tell you?

Eaten by an alligator.

That's true. Or a lion. It's also a red lion, right?

I mean, I got into hunting a little bit later, but you guys from a young age have been hunting, and it's, it's impressive to me as an adult.

Yeah.

What goes into it, you know? It's not easy to take a life, but if you do it properly, I guess it's God's will in a sense.

Yeah. There's also like the physical— we talked a little bit about the physical preparation. I don't know about you guys, but at least the times that I've done it, hunting in the East seems different than hunting in the West.

Oh yeah, it's— from what I've experienced here, I mean, I've never hunted in any of the ways we hunted here ever in my life.

Like, yeah, River, tell them about some of the vehicles we've been in.

Yeah, yeah, swamp buggies. Yeah, we've been in— we've been in swamp buggies. We've been in, um, swamp buggies, basically like— it's almost like a tractor, but so it's—

I mean, it looks like what you use to storm Normandy.

High up. Yeah, no, you'd storm Normandy with it.

We did that. Like, this is what I've done forever, and hearing how exciting it is, it's just like, yeah, moon rover.

It's like—

it is like a moon rover.

Yeah, all sorts of like buggies and these rovers with huge tires, and you're, you're like chasing out through the fields. And then, um, yeah, it's, it's, it's a lot of vehicles tree stands, which tree stands are not uncommon in the West. And when we're hunting out in, say, Idaho, if you're hunting in Colorado, you're trekking up and down mountains, you're covering sometimes 10 to 12 miles a day. That's the biggest difference. Bushwhacking your way through jungle, doing so-called spot and stock hunting. I don't know if it's just the hunts I've been on in the East, but the East style hunting seems a little bit more like vehicles, motors, uh, which I guess is hunting smarter, not harder. Um, it depends where you are, right?

Yeah, yeah.

And the species you're hunting.

Yeah.

I won't lie, I, I like to be physically gassed by the end of the day.

Yeah.

If I'm hunting. That's why I think you like the hogs a bit because it's a lot of running. Because we were like chasing— it's like, yeah, full sprint, you know? Yeah, yeah. What do you guys think? Do you like the west versus the east or What are your thoughts on the physical demands of one versus the other?

I like the West, but it's, it's way harder than the East. Yeah, at least like it's, it's a lot more hiking. You can't take a vehicle up the mountains and stuff like that. Oh yeah, you can out in Florida.

Yeah, it's, it's—

yeah, I like it.

Actually, this is the first time in my life I've ever hunted out of like what would be considered kind of like a fancy hunting lodge.

Yeah.

And I won't lie, like we're eating like hush puppies and banana pie. And shout out to Antonio, who's actually back there behind us.

Yeah.

But yeah, it's, it's just, it's way different than literally just like being gassed at the end of the day, eating a bar out in the field because you're out there for 10 hours, then having like campfire spaghetti when you get back to camp.

Yeah, maybe, maybe it's just me, but I feel like I appreciate it more though when I get an animal on the list.

Uh, you're definitely working harder for it.

Yeah, because you're working harder for it. It means more to you, especially if you get it mounted. Like, yeah, you got even cooler stories.

Yeah, no doubt.

I appreciate way more like stalking, hiking. I did a lot of that in Tennessee, Texas. This is just more like traditional Florida hunting, and we do spot and stalk for deer. Yeah, when it comes to gators and hogs, it's, it's, yeah, a different thing, you know?

Yeah, yeah, it is. And, uh, you know, it's, it's interesting because I think you're just like, your legs are heavy, your body's just destroyed, you've had heavy straps on your back. A lot of times if you're doing a packout, your packout's like 3, 4, you know, sometimes 6 hours. It's a lot more physical and sleeping outdoors too. And hunting like this is more expensive too. You're paying for a guide, you're paying for a lodge, and there's nothing wrong. We have so, so many thousands and thousands, hundreds of thousands of acres of public land in the US that's accessible to the public for hunting. So I don't want to give people the impression that you have to just write a check and get a guide and go to a fancy lodge. But it's an interesting experience. It's definitely more comfortable experience.

And it works if you want multiple species too, right? We also have such an abundance of gators and hogs that it's like you could hunt like this every day.

Yeah.

Versus like finding the elk or the deer that you specifically want.

Yeah, yeah. And on this trip, we've used— we've used bows, we've used rifles, we've used handguns, we've used knives. Um, what are you guys' thoughts on, on weapons and hunting?

Uh, I like the bow. I actually shot an animal with a gun for the first time while I was here. Which— oh my goodness, it's so much easier. Like, yeah, yeah, it's just way easier.

That was like a, like a high-speed buggy chase. Yeah, like safari style.

We're gonna talk more about that later. But, uh, bow, I love it. Tons of fun. Um, you get to sneak up, which is probably the best part, or sit there depending on where you are.

You got to be a lot closer. You got closer.

Yeah, yeah. The knife was tons of fun also. Um, I've only ever butchered chickens with knives. I've never killed an actual big animal like a hog with a knife.

Knife.

So for the first time, that was pretty cool. It'd be more interesting to do it by myself. I know we had dogs and we had people, which is normal, I guess.

But yeah, I actually thought it was very— I thought it was more difficult to kill an animal up close with a knife versus shooting an animal with a bow from 50 yards. I think there's levels, like shooting with a rifle from 150 yards.

Yeah.

But like being that close to the animal, again, back to the understanding of like like the life that is taken for you to have meat on the table is that much more kind of like impactful when you were literally like right there. Um, not to gross people out, but like literally like taking its life with a weapon in your hand. You definitely feel a lot more.

Yeah, the hogs are pretty visceral too.

You feel their pain. Yeah, and I think that's necessary. It's very different shooting from far away and then seeing it once you've tracked it versus being in it, sharing the experience with the animal. Like, we have to suffer to an extent, you know.

I don't know, what do you think, River? What's your, what's your favorite weapon? Or your thoughts on like bow versus firearms?

I like the knife. That was, that was cool.

Why?

It was up close, like what Adam said. It's just, it's, it's totally different from a bow.

Yeah, right.

Yeah, I don't know. Can you hunt any other animals with knives? Like I feel like a hog would be different stuff.

I've used it on alligator.

Have you?

Yeah, yeah. There's the hatchet. I, I had a buddy who was hunting axis deer and it was so swampy. This was in Molokai and the deer was like in a bog and he chased it down and like waded through the bog and took it down with a knife in the bog, which is pretty uncommon. I think, uh, for me the idea of just like the eye training, the practice, the certain amount of physical strength required depending on how many pounds you're pulling, the kind of like gearhead nature of it, and the idea that you do have to be better with camo and with wind and with tracking for something like a bow hunt would put bow probably top of the totem pole for me. Like, I hunted firearm for a couple of years, and then once I started hunting with bow, it's just— it's a way better experience. It's harder. Like, if I was starving and I had to put meat on the table, I'd do firearm 10 times out of 10. But the bow is a little bit more of a physical and a physically challenging sport Yeah, I got to get into bow.

Yeah, I mean, the technical aspect is just incredible. Yeah, I've always used rifle and yeah, it gets the job done, but bow is so much more complex. Yeah.

What do you guys think about, uh, I know River and Terran, you guys have done some cooking, not a ton of wild game cooking, but you've dabbled in it here and there. What are your thoughts on, on the actual cooking process as far as the way that you view wild game versus, say, like, I don't know, like a ribeye from U.S. Wellness Meats or like that whole cow that we have in the, in the freezer?

I think the gamier it is, the more you should heavily consider slow cooking it or braising it or something like that, because the gamey flavor is nice, but I mean, it's nicer when it's in a broth or when it's been cooked down a bit. For stuff like the backstrap or the tenderloin or like some of those softer tender cuts, just like salt, pepper, and roast that thing. It's perfect.

Yeah, yeah. You do much wild game prep yet, River? Yeah, yeah, you guys are gonna get to practice on a lot of this meat that we're, that we're bringing home.

I want to make sauce.

Uh, yeah, I think some of the key tools that you got to have at home, man, like shameless plug, I've got a lot of wild game recipes in Boundless Kitchen and Boundless Cookbook. Need a good sous vide setup so you can do long slow cooks, which is good, A, for tenderizing wild game, and B, for animals like, say, bear, for killing off the, the trichinosis, because you can sous vide something, which is hot water cooking in a bag at 145 degrees for 10 or 12 hours and kill off those type of pathogens. And then, people worry about the plastics in the sous vide bags and there's companies like Stasher. You guys know those thick polypropylene bags we have at the house?

Yeah.

So, those don't leach plastics at the lower sous vide temperatures down in the hundreds. And then, slow cooker like a Crock-Pot, roasting pan, and a Dutch oven, and a smoker.— like if you have those sous vide, slow cooker, Dutch oven, smoker, and Crock-Pot, then you've got a pretty good lineup for being able to take just about any cut and make it taste good. Like whether it's like a whatever, like a 3-hour smoke for a deer hind roast followed by like grilling it at a higher temperature, or whether it's like a—

like a—

I did like an 8-hour sous vide at 145 degrees on beef heart when you guys were out of town last week and then just cut that thin into slices and, uh, grilled it with olive oil on the grill top, or fried it in olive oil on the, uh, on the stovetop. If you were to just— longer cook times though, definitely need longer cook times.

I'd say if you were super strict, I'd say all you really need is like an oven and a Dutch oven. Yeah, because you could, you could, you could reverse sear, you could braise, you could slow cook. Yeah, you might be able to pull off a sous vide. I don't know if that would work.

Yeah, as a matter of fact, uh, so you guys, when you Young, you remember when I brought you through Tim Ferriss' 4-Hour Chef?

Yes.

Yeah. Well, do you remember, River, the scrambled eggs page? Yeah, there's like 30 different ways to cook scrambled eggs.

He still doesn't like mine.

Yeah. Well, Tim Ferriss' idea was like, if you can learn all these different spice combinations to cook eggs like whatever, Thai style, Vietnamese style, French style, Italian style, Mexican style, you know, American Southern style, then you can use those different spice combinations for a lot more advanced meals. Eggs are a pretty forgiving protein. And if you kind of learn how to cook a protein like that properly, then it just is a good way to learn how to cook. And River and Terran, when they were young, you know, one of the reasons they got into cooking at such an early age and why they're, in my opinion, good cooks now is Mom used to take them around the kitchen. They just put a pinch of sugar into this, a little bit of salt into that, and help her spice stuff. And then I busted out that scrambled eggs page for you guys when you were super young, and you guys basically went to town on that for several years. Yeah, eggs.

Tim Ferriss and Martha Stewart were my idols.

I don't know if I've ever seen you make scrambled eggs. Uh, I don't like eggs that much. Yeah, yeah, I used to make them all the time, and now I'm just a smoothie guy. But then, uh, the other book, and this was recommended to me, I forget who recommended this to me, but it's basically the one book that you could get to learn as many different cooking techniques and styles as possible using just one general method, but the idea behind this method is you're learning a little bit about grilling, about browning, about braising, about sauces, about spicing, about deglazing is a book by, I think her name is Molly Stevens. It's called All About Braising. I got that book and I kept it by my bedside and I would just read it at night and then get up in the morning and try one of those recipes once a week or so. And super simple book. But, uh, you ever tried braising, Adam?

No, no, never.

Yeah, very similar. Like, the idea is you're taking— yeah, you're gonna take like your meat and your vegetables, you kind of brown the meat in something like a Dutch oven, and then you remove the meat, put it to the side, take your vegetables, brown those, put the meat back in, cover that with a broth, maybe some wine or some vinegar or, you know, some bourbon or whatever the recipe calls for, your spices, a couple of bay leaves, and then cover that, and you're either letting it go in the oven at a low temp for a while or stovetop at a low simmer, and everything just kind of stews in that pot, or I should say braises in that pot. And you can do it with vegetable dishes, you can do it with fish dishes, you can do it with meat dishes, you can do it with wild game dishes. But that book, all about braising. I think if you had that and something like 4-Hour Chef, Those are probably the top 2 general cookbooks I've ever read.

I'm saving those then. Yeah, I've been like about speed cooking lately with kids, you know.

Yeah, let's, let's talk about what's going on in this next adventure though, uh, spearfishing. How many times you guys been spearfishing, River and Terran?

Twice, but one time I didn't have a spear.

Yeah, you got a camera fishing. He was, he was shooting the fish with his camera. Uh, you ever been?

I haven't. I'm stoked. Yeah, I'm very excited for this.

Yeah, we, uh, we went down to Wilmington, North Carolina with a friend of ours who's also on this trip, Andres. Uh, shout out to Andres Prescho from Know Your Physio, who's also been a podcast guest. And, River and Tara and I took a freediving course, learning the proper breath hold and safety tactics, and then went spearfishing for a few days surrounded by sharks, which Mom loved, off the coast of Wilmington. But, before that, I had interviewed a long time ago this guy named James Nestor. He wrote a book called "Breathe." And, in "Breathe," he was talking about all of the health benefits of freediving. Like compression of the spleen that occurs at a certain depth that causes you to create new red blood cells, the benefits of the inspiratory and expiratory muscle training and diaphragmatic control when you're actually doing breathwork or diving itself, the idea of like the cold thermogenesis from the water exposure, the increase in nitric oxide and carbon dioxide tolerance that happens when you're doing breathwork. And after I interviewed him and read that book, I got a hold of the guy he talks about in the book, Ted Hardy at Immersion Freediving in Fort Lauderdale, went down there with 4 of my buddies. We stayed in the house for 5 days, took his entire course, and then I went out spearfishing after that. And as an inland Idaho boy who rarely gets to spearfish and rarely gets to freedive, not an expert by any means, but I put it right up there with bow hunting as far as like intimate experience with the fish, physically challenging, physical benefits. Breath control benefits. I mean, you know, we're going out 6 hours in a couple days, just up and down and up and down after fish. That's another one that I think for people looking for like a bucket list adventure item is pretty fun. What are you guys looking forward to as far as spearfishing goes?

Oh man, last time— it's gonna be hard to beat last time. And last time we did like a shipwreck. Yeah, we went past an oil rig. Yeah, there was like a hammerhead shark. Yeah, but I think all in all, like, it's so cool to go down there see a fish you want, swim around, explore, finally spear one. Like, you can just take your time. They don't run away. Like, they'll stick around. They're kind of stupid. They're like turkeys, kind of.

Yeah, you come down, you grab a rock, kind of scratch a rock, they come in around you.

They'll just come say hi.

You can take your fish up on the boat, lemon, lime, salt, ceviche right there on the boat, depending on the, uh, the parasitic nature of the fish that you've chosen. Like, be careful which fish you do that with. And then you can also just be like prepping fish, like, in your condo or your Airbnb that night after a hard day of spearfishing, which we'll do on Saturday night. It's just super fun, again, intimate relationship with your food. What do you think about the breathwork process of freediving, River?

I'm a big fan of spleen compression, which is a huge proponent of.

He presses his spleen all the time.

You're not a real biohacker until your spleen is compressed. It's a big part. I think the breathwork part is— oh, my bad— is super important, at least for me, in a lot of aspects of life. With like running or working out, just being able to control your breath. For me, one of the biggest, yeah, biohacking tips, I guess, that you taught us.

How old were you guys when you started doing breathwork with me?

We were like 8.

You're younger than that. You're younger than that. No, no, no, you were, you were like 5 or 6.

I started breathing.

Yeah, I remember when we were doing— again, like, proceed with responsibility if you're a parent listening in or a child, convincing your parent to do this, but we used to do hour-long breathwork sessions in the sauna when you guys were as young as 9 years old, like full-on holotropic breathwork sessions even before we were thinking about freediving or spearfishing just because I identified breathwork early on as a free natural tool built into every human being that allows you to control your physiology and your emotive state at the drop of a hat. And the problem is that a lot of people just don't teach their children to have this intimate relationship with their breath, whether it's how to nasal breathe instead of mouth breathing, which affects your jaw and your teeth, or breathing when you're stressed out or anxious, like long breath in, longer breath out, to even being able to breathe yourself into a deeply meditative state. I mean, you guys remember some of those long exhale breath holds that we Or you would just be on a totally different planet getting high on your own supply as Wim Hof does.

Yeah.

It's like drugs but healthy.

Yeah, drugs without drugs. I mean, it's your body producing its own drugs, right? Nitric oxide, carbon dioxide, DMT. Have you done much breathwork, Adam?

I do a ton of breathwork.

Yeah.

I'm actually getting my son into it because I meditate every morning. We were talking like 4:00, 4:30 a.m. But when he wakes up, he comes in and he wants to meditate with me. So, he actually sits on my lap. He's been doing that since he was 2. And we lasted about 10 seconds the first time, and then we build up 30 seconds, but he'll go like 5 minutes now, which is remarkable for a 4-year-old boy. Yeah, yeah, 4-year-old boy, you're having an intimate conversation, he goes, "Dad, look at my finger." Yeah, you know, I'm telling him how much I love him. So like, their attention is all over the place, but breathwork, like, I see a noticeable difference. Uh, there's actually this guy, Jules Horne, who does this somatic work, this breathwork, and he showed me this technique of like skull compression that mimics coming out of the womb at birth. So, I'll do that with him, do that to him or he'll do it himself now while he's doing breathwork. And noticeably, I see him calm. His breathing settles, his heart rate settles down because kids naturally have kind of a higher heart rate. And seeing him focus, it's mind-blowing.

Can you pair skull compression with spleen compression?

Some people think it's like bougie, Air One, hippie Burning Man stuff to be teaching your kids breathwork when they're young. But I think I think for me, it's right up there with getting your child, again, with responsibility and knowing their limits, comfortable with heat, comfortable with cold, comfortable bearing heavy loads, comfortable breathing hard. I mean, River and Terran did a ton of triathlons and Spartan races when they were young. They followed me all over the globe just learning how to push their bodies. And, yeah, I would throw cold plunges, cold baths, cold soaks in there. But, beyond just putting your kids in sports, if you can get them involved in thermal stress, breathwork, work, weight training, and high-intensity interval training. I think those are tools, especially if you get them started young. It's a lot easier to learn that stuff, kind of like, you know, in some ways a language maybe when you're young versus kind of getting into it when you're already set in your ways of comfort when you're older. I don't know, you guys glad you did it?

Yeah, I think this trip to Florida is kind of thermal training.

It's— it was like a sauna, an all-day sauna yesterday. So the, uh, The, the thing I also wanted to touch on, just since we've got him as a captive audience, and I would love to hear some of your questions also, River and Terran, uh, is with, with Adam about the idea behind cannabis and some of these cannabidiols, uh, you know, which I know some people still just associate with weed, but it goes way beyond that. Um, but real quick before we shift to that, again, I'll put the show notes at bengreenfieldlife.com/floridahunt because I would love to hear, uh, everybody comment and questions and feedback. I guess we're in Florida hunting, I should say y'all's questions and comments and feedback. But River and Terran, how much do you guys know about cannabidiol, CBD, CBN, CBG?

Nothing.

THC?

I mean, really, yeah, not much. I know CBD is relaxing, right? And I think I've taken it maybe a few times when we're trying to go to sleep on an airplane or something. But other than that, I know nothing. I know very little. Uh, yeah, I don't know that much.

All right, all right, so we're gonna do a little, uh, a little deep dive into CBD for those of you listening in. Adam, Terrence said that CBD was good for sleep and anxiety, but then yesterday you offered me these gummies that were designed for energy and they had CBD in them.

Uh, low-dose CBD Okay. CBG also, which is a little bit more of a stimulating cannabinoid. And we put a little bit of cordyceps in it. I formulate all these different products specific for my needs, which I find— I listen to my customers and I listen to all my clients of the last 20 years, seeing what they need. And it, like you said, people associate with cannabis. And this is like the biggest mistake people make. The real thing we're working with is the endocannabinoid system. And that's something that's in everyone's body.— it's one of these master regulating systems that interacts with every other bodily system, or nearly everyone. And we're talking hormones, neurotransmitters, bone, digestion, everything you can think of. So what I personally like to do is I work with the hemp plant because that's one of the main tools that we can use that helps, I guess you could say, optimize— I don't like using that word— this endocannabinoid system that really helps us have an interface with the outside world. That's what it's really about. It's not like, oh, I feel stressed out, I need to take something. It's not really about taking something, it's about allowing our system to work more efficiently. And it's from getting into these high-stress states, whether it's more in the country hunting and we have a wild boar— and we did that at night. And I have a very specific sleep schedule. I go to bed around 9, maybe 9:30. I'm up at a certain time, and that's what I like.

I can see you look at the clock when you're on the buggies last night.

And yeah, and you know, I like to wear my blue light blocking glasses and all this stuff, but I recognize that there's stress that I can't control. Fatherhood has taught me that more than anything. And I need to know that I can trust my body to down, you know, like to regulate and get calm again as quick as possible. Because maybe I'm not accustomed to 10 PM chasing after a boar that might be chasing after me, bright headlights in my face, and then trying to get to sleep so we can wake up really early again. So I want to know that this system is being fed. And, uh, omega-3 fatty acids is a great way to do it. There's just having lower stress, but we don't always have that, you know. In this day and age with— we're in this like technological revolution where like we have so much sensory input all the time. This is why I like hunting, because we don't have so much of that. But on a regular basis, I mean, how often do you have to look at your phone?

Yeah.

How often are you getting messages and emails? What's required of us as a parent as a CEO, as a business owner, as everything, as an athlete. And I think it's so important to have this powerful response to stress that we can enjoy it, we can thrive from it, and then come back to baseline. And that was something we talked about in one of our previous podcasts.

Yeah, I actually think nature immersion involves more sensory infusion than cell phones and devices and social media, but I think it is— it's deeper, it's richer, and it's the difference between ultra-processed fast food and just like the fanciest French restaurant you're ever going to find. I think that the latter involves you're sitting at the table for a long time and you're patient and you're savoring every bite and you're attentive and you're mindful. And with social media, you can be scrolling on it while you're watching a YouTube video with a podcast in your earbuds. And so, I think a lot of people could benefit quite a bit from the sensory immersion that you get in nature. So, CBG would be more energetic then.

It has more stimulating properties. I think you mentioned. So, it's a great daytime one. My wife loves this because we co-sleep with our kids and she's carrying our kids a lot. She is just with them all the time ensuring they're loved, they're taken care of, they're experiencing challenges all the time. She's giving them the right amount of freedom, but you know what? It gets you tension in your neck sometimes. It's a different type of stress and she likes those a lot. I actually do as well, but it's a very different type of cannabinoid that's not spoken about. It was kind of in the spotlight a few years ago, but I think it definitely has its place.

What's the G stand for? Do you remember?

Cabergoline?

I can't.

Cannabigu. Cannabigu something. What about CBN? Because I think you and I were talking about this a few weeks ago, a tweet that I sent out on a research study showing that it's comparative to an anxiolytic sedative like Valium or diazepam when it comes to sleep but without deleteriously affecting sleep architecture. Have you messed around with CBN much?

Oh yeah. Uh, uh, cannabinol.

Cannabinol. Yeah, CBN.

There we go. Yeah, it's a very interesting compound actually. I like— I don't always look at them as separate cannabinoids. I think together is the most important thing. But it has— I think the study used 20 milligrams of CBN They tried it with CBD, they tried it without, and they found that it allowed people to sleep without more wake-ups, like less wake-ups. Sorry about that. They— it didn't help with sleep latency, like they didn't fall asleep faster, but it prevented that 1, 2, 3 AM wake where people had trouble getting back to sleep.

Yeah, it was, uh, I remember this because I actually talked about a little bit on podcast. I think it was 30, but then they cited other studies that go up to 300, right? Yeah. And you have— don't you have a gummy that has CBN in it?

So actually, almost all of our products have a certain amount of CBN, whether it's, uh, our full spectrum oils, because that's part of the hemp plant. I try not to pull out isolated compounds.

Is that what full spectrum means? You're just like taking as much out of the hemp plant as possible, right?

So we do a whole plant extract. It's, it's kind of revolutionary. It's a mid-critical extraction, so we're maintaining all the plant's cannabinoids. Most companies are not doing that. They're claiming full spectrum. I don't want to talk badly about other companies, but— and they have their following, but we, I wanna make sure it's exactly as nature intended. And I think that's one of our mottos really is they're giving it to us. Nature has given us something and we need to use it as a whole. That doesn't mean that CBN doesn't have a place because I have cannabis-rich strains, I should say hemp-rich strains so people don't get confused. This isn't meant to get you high that we've combined with our traditional full-spectrum oils. So we have higher levels of CBN specifically geared for sleep. When people have that extra stress before sleep.

Is that the THC CBN gummies?

Slightly elevated THC, just enough so it's not negatively impacting REM.

Right.

I think you took them the other night.

I took 2 the past 2 nights and I generally don't use THC just because I think long-term high doses of it can— I mean, I don't think, I know it can affect the brain in terms of just free radical leakage and affect of memory pathway ways, even more so in a young developing brain, which is why I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the two gentlemen to my left are not smoking weed.

I'm 18.

I'm an adult now.

Yeah, yeah.

Legally, my brain is fully—

So is that a yes or a no on the weed? I'm pretty sure neither.

I don't do weed, Mom. I don't.

Yeah, Mom, they don't smoke weed. So somebody's doing weed. But for, for, uh, instances in which a fully grown or fully formed brain is in a potentially anxiety-induced states, traveling, circadian rhythm disruption, et cetera. I have used THC before. I've used it on airplanes as well to help with sleep. I'm a bigger fan of pure, like that full-spectrum CBD you have, or if I can use like pure CBN. Nudge, nudge, wink, wink. I want you to come out with a pure CBN just without THC.

I think I'm going to have to do that.

Yeah, you should. I think it would crush. But, the idea behind THC is I think you definitely need to modulate usage. I know some people who like just will take like a mega, like 10 to 12 milligrams to get to sleep. And I think like 2 of yours is what, 6?

2, 2 of mine would be 6, yes. But we have to understand that what we see like in dispensaries when we're seeing these pothead— I hate saying potheads, I was a pothead— people that smoke cannabis, it, uh, they're using these exceptionally high THC strains with almost no other cannabinoids. They've been genetically modified, hybridized, to have such high THC.

Is that what people mean when they say this isn't the weed your grandparents smoked?

Exactly.

When the weed our grandparents smoked, and my dad, it was very balanced with cannabinoids and it was a lower THC content, so it felt like a calm buzz. The stuff nowadays, it just gets you blasted into outer space. And if you go to a dispensary and you're getting edibles, because edibles last a little bit longer, it's more discreet, it's still THC isolate. They're just taking the THC molecule and feeding it to you. Your body doesn't know what to do it. It's hyperstimulating the endocannabinoid system, the receptors, the cannabinoid receptors, and it's really unhealthy. And that's a funny thing because I was a madman with cannabis for many years in college, high school, even afterwards. But I want to do it the right way, so I'm getting the health benefits and I'm also enjoying myself. So CBD actually, like, when we're getting higher CBD in a full spectrum formula, it's negating so many of the negative effects effects of pure THC. It's an antioxidant in its own right, and you have a wide range of cannabinoids, so you're getting effects on different receptors without stimulating them. You're allowing them to be— they call it an allopathic modulator, so it allows your body to do the work better.

Yeah, it's an antagonist to one of the CB— I think the CB1 receptor, which, which is why even some people who take— I don't know if everybody knows this, but if you, let's say, did use THC or smoked weed and got too high. If you take CBD, it takes some of the edge off because it antagonizes that same receptor that THC is agonizing. So CBD can actually balance it out.

Yeah, they're actually using— when people come in, they've taken too much THC, instead of giving someone Valium or something like that, that's the first line of defense. And it's incredible what it's doing because it's allowing you to do better work. Yeah. And our body produces anandamide, which is a cannabinoid. It. And CBD just allows your body to produce it more effectively on its own.

Yeah.

Uh, Reverend Taren, does that answer all your questions and so much more about CBD? Do you have other questions about cannabis?

What is the, the, the, the cabana— the cabana— what is that?

Cannabidiol is the long name for CBD.

Okay.

Yeah, yeah. Okay. And, and so as far as the plants go, like, if you see a plant, like a— you, you use the term hemp plant growing anything in nature that has all of the compounds, THC, CBD, CBN, CBG. There's literally dozens of them, right?

Yeah, dozens. There's like hundreds. There's many that haven't been, you know, discovered yet. And we're talking about cannabis, which is sort of like the umbrella term. And then you get your traditional, what you think of smoking and getting high. And then there's a subspecies called hemp. So it really is all under the cannabis umbrella. I guess most people would say marijuana is what you smoke and get high on, high THC. But it really should have a balanced profile.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I also was a pothead for probably like 4 years, mostly when vape pens first came out, and I didn't even realize like how powerful they were. And I used to always have one in my fanny pack, and I just take— I wouldn't say a full-on, like, like I wasn't a, uh, like a daytime user, but I would often just like take a hit at night before dinner, after dinner. At one point, somebody sent me, because I did a few podcasts on THC, something called a Magical Butter Machine, and I would like make my own nighttime nighttime edibles and chocolate.

I remember that actually.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'd make other stuff in there too.

And then I wasn't allowed to use it to make money.

Once I learned about the deleterious effects long-term of THC on the brain, I pretty much quit that cold turkey. Like, I probably have— like I mentioned, like, I'll have a few of your THC gummies every now and again, and then like I might, uh, hit THC like once a month maximum. And that's just usually like date night with my wife when we want to do that, instead of have a glass of wine or whatever. Yeah, it's very sensual. Yeah, so there you go, guys. Now, now you know that Mom and I are potheads. Yeah, all those tie-dye shirts and bandanas in the closet and the colored glasses. No, we are not. We are not. What's that, Taren? Huh?

Do you take them?

Well, this has been a pretty cool adventure so far. Uh, we're gonna be releasing like photos, videos, and eventually actually a book on father-son adventures. And then, uh, Adam, we didn't even say what your company is, but it's Element Health, right?

Element Health.

Yeah, Element Health. I've been using you guys' products since— I mean, what's been like 7 years? Yeah, it was just training.

Yeah, I gave you a bottle.

Yeah.

And you're like, when I travel normally, like, sleep's a little bit off. And you wrote me and you're like, dude, what is this?

You know? Yeah.

And it was right when I created the company, actually. And, uh, yeah, elementhealthsupply.com is the website.

All right, cool.

Yeah, I'll put, I'll put links in the show notes for you guys, which is gonna be at bengridfeldlife.com/floridahunt. Uh, leave your questions, your comments, and your feedback there. Uh, fellas, any, any last words for, for the viewers and listeners around the world?

No.

Konnichiwa.

What's that quote? Last words are for fools who haven't said enough.

Last words are for fools who haven't said enough. There you go. Adam, any last words?

Just live outside of technology, you know. It's so easy to get just consumed and be indoors more. Just be outside, whatever it is.

Amen.

Find your adventure.

Yeah, turn off this podcast and go outside if you're not there already.

You want to bug you with a shotgun?

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