The Hormone-Boosting Minimalist Exercise Machine That Burns A Staggering Amount Of Calories In Just

On this episode of the Ben Greenfield.

Fitness Podcast, the average increase in anabolic hormones for the vasper group was 42%. And at the same time, their average decrease in stress and inflammation hormones like cortisol and estradol was actually 69%. So it really is sort of the ultimate complement to any existing strength training regime in optimizing your hormones for better performance, better gains and better recovery, health.

Performance, nutrition, longevity, ancestral living, biohacking, and much more. My name is Ben Greenfield. Welcome to the show.

Oh, hello. Yeah, yeah, hello. You guys are constantly asking what kind of gum I chew. I should probably spit out this gum. So rude of me, chewing gum during an intimate conversation in your earbuds. I used to chew a lot of nicotine gum. Actually, I was chewing that Lucy stuff for a long time. I still occasionally will hit a, like a 2 or 4 milligram piece of nicotine gum. But I decided that I want to be in control of my body and not be addicted to anything except maybe coffee, I guess. So I switched, and now I'm using gum that is admittedly kind of expensive, but I used it to wean myself off of nicotine gum because it kind of gives me this little metabolic high. It's marketed as weight loss gum, but you may have heard me talk about. What's it called? Mastic gum before, which is frankincense. Frankincense resin, which I learned about from the guy who ran the 50 marathons in 50 days and then ran the Spartan marathon in Greece. Dean Carnazes. He chewed on this gum to keep his saliva kind of like lubed in his mouth. And. And this gum I'm now chewing is called sleek. S, L, I, Q, U, E. Sleek. And it's basically frankincense resin, but then it's got. It's only colored with turmeric and red cabbage juice. And then it has this slimming fresh mint blended in peppermint spearmint. And it totally satiates my appetite as well. And I like it, too, because it retains flavor for a really long time. This actually isn't even a commercial, not even a sponsor of the show, but what the heck? I'll give you a link. Now, I guess since I told you about the gum I'm now chewing, it's BenGreenfieldFitness.com sleek BenGreenfieldFitness.com Sleek, but it's spelled S L, I, Q U E. Sleek. Sleek gum. Check that out. This interview today is with my friend Sebastian, who helps to invent a crazy exercise device that we're going to talk about this podcast, like all podcasts, is brought to you by Kion. And this is the time of year when everybody's ordering Christmas gifts. Let me tell you, we have a wonderful bundle called the Daily Life Bundle. It's perfect as a gift. We can't gift wrap it for you. I'm sorry. And if you're as shitty a gift wrapper as I am, that's going to be a big issue for you. But. But find an auntie or a cousin or a spouse to lovingly wrap the Kion Daily Life Bundle. It is a whole box of my clean energy Cacao coconut almond honey bars. The wonderful dark antioxidant rich Kion coffee. Our Kion Aminos, one of the most potent muscle building and appetite satiating compounds we have. And then Kion Lean, which basically lets you eat all your Christmas cookies and not have them make you fat. So that's the Kion Daily Life Bundle. You can get it@getkion.com and use this code bgf10@getkeon.com this podcast is also brought to you by Joovv. What is Joovv? Joovv makes these photo bio modulation panels. That's just a fancy term for red light and near infrared light. If you look up the research on photobiomodulation on PubMed, it is ever expanding for everything from faster muscle recovery to reduced pain and inflammation to increased testosterone production. If you shine it on your balls, it's good for the sperm firm. 2 A recent clinical study showed that it boosts hormones not just in dudes, but also in ladies. So it's called the Joovv. And they just introduced special holiday financing on their Joov elite, their Joovv Mini, their teeny tiny Joovv Go. It's all all on their website where you get some killer deals over the holidays. You go to Joovv.com Ben J-O-O-V-V.com Ben if you use code Ben, you're going to get a free month supply of berry aminos. Free month supply of berry Aminos@joovv.com Be Foreign.

Folks. This is officially it. You guys have been wondering what I've been up to in my secret Batman labs out here in Spokane. All the crazy exercise equipment I'm constantly experimenting with. There is one thing I have been on every single day that I have been at home for the past two months. I think I have. I gotta go check my records on the. On the sexy little dashboard on this piece of equipment. But I think I've logged in excess of 40 workouts right now on it, each one exactly 21 minutes long. And I've begun to tell people when they come over and they visit my gym and they see this thing in my gym that even if I get nothing else done that the entire day physically, aside from just my basic standing workstation, low level physical activity throughout the day, this one thing gives me all I need for my metabolic stimulus for the day. It's basically. And my guest on today's show is going to be able to fill you in in far more detail than me. But it essentially combines what you've probably heard of before, blood flow restriction training, which is often kind of thrown around, along with the term Katsu training. They're different. But right now let's just focus on what this thing does. It's basically blood flow restriction training, cold thermogenesis and high intensity interval training all combined together to give you this massive workout in 21 minutes. Now, several years ago, several years ago, man, I think it was like six years ago, somebody asked me about this device. I hadn't worked out on one yet, but I got the inventor on the show to just talk about the technology because I thought it was cool. And the title of that show was how to get two hours of exercise in 20 minutes. So I talked to the guy who invented this thing and we riffed for a while and I'll link to that one in the show notes if you want to go back and listen. But again, I didn't have a lot of personal experience with it. Well, since then, not only have I seen the, this piece of equipment take the, I guess what I would call the biohacking fitness world by storm, but I've also, like I mentioned, added it to my own arsenal at home. And in preparation for today's interview and also in preparation to just basically tell the world what I've been up to, I've been working out a lot on this thing. So my guest on today's show is actually the son of the person who I initially interviewed back in the day, the inventor of this device, which is called the Vasper and his name is Sebastian Waskowski. Hopefully I didn't bastardize that last name too badly. And he knows this thing inside and out. I have a ton of questions for him about it. As you listen in everything we talk about, you'll be able to find at BenGreenfieldFitness.com TheVaspersHow BenGreenfieldFitness.com theVaspersHow V A S P E R the Vasper show, because the name of this minimalist exercise machine is the Vasper. So, Sebastian, welcome to the show, man.

Thank you very much. Happy to be here.

Yeah. And I see you all, like every health and fitness conference I go to, you're there taking people through workouts on this thing, showing them how to use it. I know, like I mentioned, you know it inside and out. And so my first question for you is, who the heck came up with the idea for this? There's got to be a story behind it.

Yeah, there is. So this is something that my father invented to address some of his own health concerns. Actually, we moved from the Bay Area, California, to the big island of Hawaii, and he was dealing with post traumatic stress in his ankles, post traumatic arthritis more specifically, and was having a really hard time walking sometimes. And he was also pre diabetic. He was flunking his glucose tolerance test for years, and his grandfather actually passed away from diabetes. So he was doing research on ways that he could avoid taking drugs for the rest of his life. Stumbled upon the research behind blood flow restriction, behind intermittent cold exposure and cooling and interval training, and had the idea to combine all three into a single system. Ended up putting together a prototype in the backyard. And this is when I was still in high school and put together a system, started introducing it to friends, family and neighbors. And in a very short period of time, we had like 15 different people showing up on a regular basis to get their sessions in based on the results that it was generating. So we actually formed the company, founded the company in 2009, and have been all over, working with all sorts of different groups, sports teams, military, NASA and so forth, and getting the technology out there.

I'm just curious what it was like watching your pops out there in the backyard working on a piece of fitness equipment. I mean, were there multiple iterations of this thing?

There were, yeah. Really. Interestingly, you know, the first person that helped him build the prototype was somebody that he met in line at Costco who overheard his phone conversation talking about it. And then he chimed in and says, I work in refrigeration. And they helped put together the first system. So we have some really great photos, you know, from the early prototypes that were in the backyard in the laboratory. My grandma was one of the initial guinea pigs and test subjects for the whole thing. And it had a tremendous impact on her overall strength and mobility and balance.

Then, yeah, we had 15 different people, at least, showing up on a regular basis to get their sessions in. And then in 2009. We had a trial on Oahu with 220 people. And that was the first time that we had taken it from the backyard into the real world. Overwhelmingly positive results. And from there we landed a trial with the San Jose Sharks. And that's actually how we ended up here at the NASA Ames Research park at Moffitt Field in Mountain View, California.

Okay, so the San Jose Sharks. I mean, I didn't plan on getting into this this early in the show, but, I mean, that's a sports team, it's a hockey. And.

This is something that I think happens a lot in the biohacking industry. People kind of like snicker behind the scenes. Like real strength conditioning coaches and real athletic performance specialists would see something like this and say, well, that's just like a glorified elliptical trainer. That in no way is going to move the dial from an athleticism or performance standpoint. So I guess right now, just because I'm sure skeptics are wondering, and we'll come back full circle and talk a little bit more about the technology and how you combine compression and cold thermogenesis and things like that. But talk to me about anything that you know of or that you guys have studied when it comes to the research on what might happen from a performance enhancement standpoint. Because I don't want to give the impression this is just for, you know, say, like rehabbing a bum knee. But I'm also just curious as far as actual studies on performance implications.

Yeah, definitely. I mean, what the system is actually designed to do is, of course, to stimulate your body's production of anabolic hormones. So this is something that naturally takes place when we work out at a very high intensity. It's arguably one of the single most significant benefits of working out. And Vasper is simply a means of initiating that same benefit, but through a much lesser threshold than is normally involved. So through a combination of blood flow restriction and cooling, we're able to mimic the physiology of a much more intensive workout, initiate the same response from the endocrine system, and see a very, very significant increase in anabolic hormone levels without any of the stress response that you might see from a big workout. We had a study where 10 of the pararescue guys did 20 sessions in comparison to a control group. So both groups were training with Mike, and Vasper group had Vasper. The average increase in anabolic hormones for the vasper group was 42%. And at the same time, their average decrease in stress and inflammation hormones like cortisol and estradol was actually 69% and that translated to more significant gains in their pre and post strength assessment. So their runtime to exhaustion, the Vasper group improved actually 17.3%. They their pull ups to failure improved by I think 2.1% and their recovery was 32%.

What about transfer over to things like some of these standard exercise physiology performance metrics like run time to exhaustion, I know is a big one, heart rate recovery is another. Did you guys measure any of those standard physiology measurements?

No, it was mainly the hormones and then their pre and post strength assessment stuff. But anytime you have higher levels of embolic hormones, you're going to see an increase in performance, you're going to see more significant gains from the work that's being put in and then a greatly expedited and enhanced recovery. Sort of in the same way that steroids might help you in all three categories, this is tapping into your body's endogenous production of those same agents. And of course when it's your own brain producing its own hormone, you're not running into any of the potential pitfalls that you have with introducing these things exogenously.

So you saw across the board with the use of this thing an increase in growth hormone. So I'm assuming you were just measuring IGF1, testosterone, decrease in cortisol and decrease in estradiol. And in terms of what you were comparing that to, was that another group that was not exercising, Was it a group that was doing a different exercise protocol or what exactly did the study look like?

No. So both groups were the pararescue guys and they were both training, they had the same existing strength training regime. The only difference was the Vasper group had Vasper in addition to that. So there was hormonal baselines done on both groups and then the average increase for The Vasper group versus the control group was 42%. And then their average decrease in cortisol levels was actually 69%. And that also correlated to very significant improvements in sleep quality, which is interestingly the most common that people report across all demographics. Actually.

What did you guys look at when it comes to sleep quality?

Yeah, I mean that was self reported sleep scores on the PSQI and the Vaster group was reporting significant improvements in sleep quality. And interestingly enough, sleep quality and hormone production are very closely related to, and I think it's about 50% of our available growth hormone is only released between the first and second stage of deep sleep. And that's why sleep quality is absolutely paramount for your endocrine system. And for general health and wellness.

Yeah. Okay. So the psqi, for those who don't know what that is, it's a Pittsburgh sleep quality index. And prior to the OURA ring and the WHOOP and all these other methods of at home sleep quantification, that was kind of one of the gold standard self report questionnaires used to assess sleep. I think it typically lasts over a one month time interval or so, but it's 19 different sleep metrics that are scored by a participant on a daily basis to analyze sleep. And actually it does hold up when it comes to actual correlation to sleep laboratory measurements. And that's really interesting, the increase in sleep quality, because.

I have actually noticed on the evenings after I use the Vasper in the mornings, an increase specifically in deep sleep percentages, it tends to go up on average by about 2 to 4%. And obviously I'm doing a lot of different things throughout the day that affect my sleep. And I will admit I'm constantly experimenting with a wide variety of everything from nutrients to macronutrient modifications to red light therapy to a host of other parameters. But there's definitely something going on here and it's actually pretty impressive what you guys found in the para rescue trial when it came to the actual change in hormones. I mean that is unique, deniable what you guys saw from a hormone standpoint. Now backing up a second, I do want to ask you because I know you've also studied some of the very interesting results on some markers like VEGF and stem cell production. Some of the things you'd expect from say like hyperbaric oxygen therapy. And you've also looked at TBI and concussions. But before we get into the effects of this on some of those parameters, let's back up and break this thing down. So first of all, one of the first things that I do when I get on it to work out, I can get myself set up in about two minutes flat. Now to start my workout on this thing is I put on these compression wraps. Now tell me about that first part, the compression.

Yeah. So the compression cuffs, this is really how we're delivering our method with regards to blood flow restriction. So it's almost like a blood pressure cuff. And instead of filling up with air, this pressure is actually created through cold water. So these cuffs fill up with water that's about 40 to 45 degrees in temperature. And they are persistently squeezing the limbs throughout a 21 minute interval based workout. The pressure is then reducing the superficial blood flow from the muscle, which results in a rapid concentration of lactic acid and other metabolites. And that's actually how we're able to mimic the physiology of a much more intensive workout. When we're exercising conventionally without blood flow restriction, the lactic acid that's produced is constantly swept away by the venous system. So it takes a considerable amount of both time and effort to actually produce a concentration strong enough that's going to initiate the downstream anabolic effect. And for anybody who's physically compromised dealing with an injury older has a condition, in many cases they are unable to work out an exercise in a meaningful way. That's actually going to create the physiology that's going to initiate, you know, the most significant benefits of exercise. And then that's definitely a very powerful sweet spot for the technology. And then, of course, it's also used on the performance side almost as a means of active recovery, as well as just optimizing the endocrine profile for better performance, better gains.

Yeah. And that, that refers to, of course, you know, what is abbreviated BFR training now in fitness literature and like I mentioned, is linked to the initial Japanese research on these Katsu training devices that cut off blood flow to a limb during exercise. And it's very interesting because you see a response from a strength and a muscle gain or muscle maintenance standpoint, very similar to what you get if you were lifting heavy weights. But by cutting off blood flow to the muscle and concentrating lactic acid within the muscle, you fool the muscle into thinking it's getting damaged. So there's this very interesting satellite cell response and mitochondrial proliferation response that you see with blood flow restriction training, whether it's done on something like a Vasper or whether it's done with these, these tourniquets that you can get on Amazon or, you know, one of the more expensive Japanese Katsu training devices. The very interesting thing is that you don't need a lot of weight to actually build muscle, which is why.

You know, I feel as though when I'm using this thing in the morning and I take off the compression wraps post workout, it feels as though I've lifted heavy weights, even though essentially I've been on a piece of cardio equipment or what looks like cardio equipment for the past 21 minutes. And then I know that that's linked to the growth hormone response, too, because anytime you just trap lactic acid and muscle tissue, an IGF one response is one one of the results of doing something like that. But the best way I could describe, like, a poor man's version of this would Be you buy, you know, and I've told people about this trick before, you buy like Amazon blood flow restriction bands and put them on your arms and your legs and then you get on like an Airdyne bike or one of the elliptical trainers that has both the arm and the leg attachments and you do a high intensity interval training workout with those attached. If you want a kind of a little bit of a flavor of what this Vasper feels like, you, if you've never been on one, that's kind of sorta what you experience as far as everything being trapped in the muscle. Although you guys, Sebastian have this, it's like a dashboard that's attached to the Vasper. It's a tablet that you can adjust the pressure in terms of millimeter of mercury up and down. And correct me if I'm wrong, but you guys are using actual water infused into these wraps to adjust the actual pressure that someone has on their arms and legs, correct?

Yeah, that's exactly correct. And because we're doing this over a much wider surface area with liquid chilled cuffs, it's a very different experience than traditional bfr, which is usually over a much more narrow surface area and a much higher compression gradient.

Yeah. Talk to me about the chill effect, about the icy cold water that circulates through this thing during the workout.

Yeah. So not only are we cooling the body at the side of the cuffs, but the entirety of the seat that you're on is also cooled as well as the foot pads. And it's for a number of reasons. One, it definitely helps mitigate some of that discomfort of rapidly concentrating lactic acid. The burn that you would normally feel towards the tail end of a workout, you start to experience that in the first 3, 4 minutes, but in many cases without being out of breath, without breaking a sweat. But more importantly than that, the cooling enables the user to be more powerful throughout the protocol. So we're just sort of mitigating heat stress. When we exercise, we generate heat and the process of sweating involves blood actually being shunted from the muscle to help facilitate perspiration. And then you're losing oxygen at the muscle level and your performance begins to decline. So we're just trying to streamline the user's efficiency, make them as powerful as possible for the 21 minutes. Being able to generate as much, you know, strong a response from the endocrine system as possible.

Now, have you looked at all into whether or not the that it's not just the cold circulating through these cuffs that allows you to achieve a higher Rating of perceived exertion because it's keeping the body cool and it's kind of alleviating some of that burn, that very intense burn you'd normally get during blood flow restriction training. But if you looked into whether or not there is a metabolic effect of the cold, meaning do you burn more calories if you are exercising in the cold or if you're using cryotherapy during the actual workout session?

Yeah, you know, that hasn't been studied specifically, but that is absolutely the case. There's definitely a response from the metabolism in cooling the body with exercise. And we're sort of banking on some of the same existing benefits from cold exposure, but just interestingly enough, combining it with a dynamic 21 minute interval based workout.

Now, what about the mat that. And I will readily admit I haven't been using the cooling mat because I have a giant cold pool next to my gym that I usually jump into after my workouts and I get a pretty quick cool down from that versus lying on this mat. But I know gold standard is every Vasper comes with this cooling mat and I have it, I just haven't been using it. What's the idea behind the. The cooling mat that you get on afterwards?

Yeah, so after the workout, you lay down on a cooling pad for about five to 10 minutes. And we want to allow your heart rate and your respiratory rate to drop back to baseline and for it to essentially act as a little transition between the workout and the rest of your day, sending that hard stop signal to the body and the brain. Recognizing that the intensity is over, the workout is over, you sort of shifted into a new phase of the day and that can sort of help coax along that downstream anabolic effect. So the way that I often describe it to people is at the end of a yoga session, you're laying there in Savasana, and this is essentially our version of the exact same thing. Following your Vasper protocol.

Well, I've certainly done a podcast in the past about certain nutrients and compounds that can actually enhance white fat to brown fat, adipose tissue conversion and the effects of cold thermogenesis, the metabolic effects of cold thermogenesis, some of those being things like green tea extract, bitter melon extract, or any of these calorie restriction mimetics like berberine, for example, caffeine to a certain extent, cayenne is another one. And even some of these vasodilatory substances like niacin or group, for example, they can all enhance the effects of this cold thermo. And that's actually something I've been doing prior to my Vasper sessions, is using typically like a blood flow agent, in my case niacin, along with one of these agents that accelerates white fat to brown fat conversion. In my case, typically bitter melon and, or caffeine or coffee. And again, I haven't seen an actual study on the vascular for itself or on exercising in the cold in conjunction with the use of these supplements. But to me, from a, from a physiological standpoint, it just makes sense. So that's what I've been doing. But long story short is that when you combine the cold with the blood flow, there's definitely something different going on. I mean, you can achieve intensities. And because I hit, you know, when I'm doing one of the intervals on this thing, I'll hit 700 to 800 watts during one of the 10 to 15 second intervals. And that's something I normally wouldn't be able to do if it wasn't for the cold. I would literally overheat doing something like that. So it's an interesting feature. And again, this one's tough to replicate for those of you listening in. I mean, I suppose you could get your garage super duper cold, go out there, put blood flow restriction bands on and try to ride an Airdyne and that type of setting and maybe you get a little bit of a, a taste of it. But it's a very unique combination. I also wanted to ask you, Sebastian.

With the cooling effect, the actual pads that the feet go on as you're doing this workout on this full body exercise machine, I think you guys use something called a new step. I'll ask you about that as the platform for the device and why you chose it here in a little bit. But you're barefoot, you're barefoot and your feet are touching these metal pads that actually get pretty cool. Is that intentional that those pads are cool as well? Is there a cooling effect going on through the feet?

It is, yeah. So the same, the same 40 degree water that's flowing through the cuffs as well as the seat is also flowing through the copper foot pads. And the idea there is just to help lower the overall body temperature. And our hands and our feet can sort of both act like thermostats. If you're ever hot under a blanket and you just, just stick your feet out, there's some immediate relief. So eventually we're looking to actually add hand cooling to the system as well. But it is very intentional that we're cooling the bottom of the feet and that you're barefoot throughout your protocol.

Now, being barefoot throughout the protocol, this kind of relates to something I've talked about a lot before on the podcast before. That's the idea of earthing or grounding. I know the device is plugged into the wall and I did note that this a three prong plug, so it is connected to the grounding outlet. But I'm curious if there actually is any type of grounding or earthing effect. Since you're barefoot on metal with a grounding cable going into the wall, Are you technically getting some of that negative ion exposure too while you're on this, like that, that anti inflammatory grounding or earthing effect?

Yeah, that's precisely correct. And there's some of that same 10 Hz discharge that occurs when you're barefoot on the surface of the earth where you're able to download static electricity from the body and then of course upload those negative ions and electrons that, you know, have a play a significant role in free radicals and cellular health and so forth.

Hmm, that's interesting. I think you guys underplay that on your website. It'd be, it'd be very. Because I couldn't find a lot of information about it. But you know, every time I'm using it, I keep swearing, you know, technically, I mean, look at the technology. I'm barefoot, I'm on copper metal, conductive surface. It's. The device is plugged into the grounding outlet, so I am grounded the whole time I'm using it. And I mean, man, if you guys also add cooling to the handles so both the hands and the feet are grounded, that would be pretty next level. So it's, it's very interesting. And you know, I hadn't really thought too much about the earthing or the grounding effect until I really got a few workouts in and then just, you know, realized I'm definitely grounded the whole time I'm using this thing. Now the device itself, like I mentioned, is a device you could find at some gyms. Like my YMCA has a new step and it appears that you guys basically took a new step like this full body exercise device and just outfitted it with the, with the compression, with the icing, with everything like that. Is there a reason that you chose the new step versus like a, like a stand up elliptical trainer or more like an Airdyne bike type of setting?

Yeah, so we have a number of platforms now that the Vasper system is paired with, but the new step is really an ideal initial one to go to market with based on the fact that it's recumbent stepper, you're actually sitting in a chair and it's very, very low impact and it's very versatile with the amount of people that we can serve on it. Vasper is being utilized in cardiac rehab, physical therapy, geriatrics, every type of rehabilitation and medical fitness you can think of. And on the other end of the spectrum, we're with special forces, professional sports teams, and then the whole general health and wellness spectrum in between. So the new stuff itself is extremely low impact, which is by design and without bearing your weight, you're still able to mimic the physiology of a intensive workout ranging something closer to two hours.

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Like you just alluded to, you're getting a very, very the equivalent of a very long cardiovascular workout. Like, you know, the equivalent of two to three hours of training when it comes to the actual mitochondrial response in about 21 minutes. And the two programs I use the most are the burn baby burn, which is I think alternating 30 and 60 second sprints. If I remember correctly, that's the burn baby burn one and then the other one I use quite a bit just based on this idea of me wanting to just go high intensity, hit the creatine phosphogenic system, not accumulate a ton of lactic acid, but actually tap a little, little bit more into power and use almost like a burst form of training is the. I alternate the 15 second and 30 second sprint. So the longest I'm working is for a 30 second sprint. And really like those are the 90% of the time those are the two workouts I'm doing. However, there I think there's several dozen different workouts programmed into this thing. So talk to me about the type of exercise sessions that are programmed into the vasper and why you guys kind of chose the ones that you did.

Yeah, so we probably have about 30 different protocols that are within the software, varying in sprint duration, frequency, intensity, and so forth. And every one of those protocols is able to be customized for any demographic and match their level of fitness as well as their goals. So each one of those almost acts like a blueprint and people make additions to those, are able to save them in different settings, medical settings and so forth.

So when you're actually programming these workouts, let's say you guys launch a new workout and somebody has a vasper, is there a way that the technology somehow downloads from your guys central unit or how does this actually work from almost like a firmware update standpoint, I mean.

We'Re working on further developing the software and as long as the user is connected to the Internet, we're able to update their software remotely. So that's something that's in process. But right now we're not actually capturing any of the session data from the individual units that are out there.

How do you actually upload? Like let's say somebody buys this and you guys come out with five new workouts. How would they get those workouts onto their Vasper?

With just, just by updating their software.

Oh, okay.

So with updating the software they'll have all the new protocols automatically uploaded there.

Okay, got it. Cool. Now every single session, at least every single one I've done, is exactly 21 minutes long. Why 21 minutes?

So with the research around blood flow restriction, what we found, 21 minutes is sort of the optimal time to initiate the maximum response from the endocrine system to generate as strong a downstream anabolic effect as possible without stimulating cortisol, without initiating any type of a stress response. So you know, it can be of course customized to any level. We have 96 year olds in cardiac rehab settings that are doing this for 21 minutes, of course @ a very intense, different intensity than you are. But we found that 21 minutes is sort of that sweet spot to get the maximum response from the endocrine system without initiating any bit of a stress.

Response. What would happen if you used it for longer than have you had people stay on for 30 minutes or done a full 45 minute routine or anything like that on.

It? No, that's not something we've actually looked at. I know at some of the initial sites we have heard of people doing multiple sessions in a single day, which isn't really something we'd.

Recommend. Well, that's hard to do. I mean, if you truly. It's kind of like a Tabata set, right? Like if you do a true Tabata set and you're really doing the 20 seconds as hard as you're supposed to, you don't want to do another session later on in the day like I find. So this is a little bit difficult to describe, but when you're doing the Vasper workout, there's basically a line on the top of the screen and a line on the bottom of the screen and you simply keep this little yellow dot in the middle of those lines so that when it says go hard, getting that yellow dot where it's supposed to go is incredibly hard. And when it says go easy, you really are supposed to let that thing down so that you're able to go as hard as you're supposed to when it's time to go hard. If I really truly do the entire routine and go as hard as you're supposed to go during the hard sessions, I'm done for 24 hours. Like I, I can't effectively because I've tried doing a two a day before. You can't hit the intensity if you really are, are truly using it the way you're supposed to and not doing junk training, you know, because I thought maybe, oh dude, I'll get super fit and do this as a two a day. But you can't, in my opinion, if you use it.

Properly. No, I completely agree with that. It's really not designed to be done more than once a day. Most people are probably on there three to four times per week. And then of course, people that own them in their homes tend to do it more frequently just based on the access that they.

Have. Yeah. And in terms of working out before or after. After the use of the Vasper, my own personal experience is I typically find in the morning 30 minutes is a sweet spot for me for exercise. So I've been using the Vasper and then I'll finish up with just a few hex bar deadlifts or I'll finish up with a round of. I have a vibration platform next to it, so I'll do like a round of push ups and squats on the vibration platform. Again, none of this is really like my, I'm just, I'm training for the RKC certification right now, the kettlebell cert. And so I've got my kettlebell workout that I'll typically do in the afternoon or the evening, but I still will kind of after the Vasper session, just finish up with a few little moves. And I feel as soon as I take those cuffs off and I get that huge blood flow to my extremities, this big boost in energy, and I feel as though I could go for a much longer period of time, the nine or 10 minutes I'm doing after I finish the Vasper. But I'm curious if you guys have looked into the utilization of this, especially for the pro sports teams you're working with as a pre workout, as a post workout. Like is there other exercise sessions that this is typically being done in conjunction with or can it be done in conjunction with things like.

That? It definitely can be done in conjunction with Regular strength training and in all of the professional athletic settings, you know, that's, that's obviously how it's done. Different athletes will have a different approach. Some people will approach it more of like an active recovery on like a regen day or in concluding their training as a means of initiating the recovery hormones that's going to help get them fresh for the, the next outing. But most athletes just, just like you mentioned, actually prefer to use it as a warmup and find that starting their training with the Vasper session and then going into their regular training, they're seeing more significant gains from the work that they're putting in. And there's just sort of an enhanced synergy by having that, you know, increased anabolic hormone levels going into the.

Workout. Yeah, it's absolutely amazing for active recovery, like for me after I've flown or when I don't feel like working out, it's one of those things where even if I'm doing one of the recovery sessions, once I get hooked up to it, I think it might be the cold just kind of wakes you up and gets you moving or the fact that you don't have to produce a lot of wattage since your limbs are blood flow compressed. Like doing this, even if I'm already beat up from another workout the day prior, it just, it absolutely accelerates my recovery because I'm getting that increase in blood flow and it's probably partially the growth hormone and testosterone response as well. Now how about morning versus evening? Have you found any difference in terms of benefits on sleep or hormone profile or anything like that for a morning versus an evening.

Session? You know, in general, the data around sleep and its impact or exercise and its impact on sleep quality shows that the earlier in the morning that you're exercising, the greater the impact on sleep quality. With Vasper, we have people coming into our facility at all times a day. We close around 8p every evening. And there's always a big rush there at the end of people coming to use it at 7pm in the evening. And they're saying that they're doing it for their sleep primarily. But we have had a few people that report a pretty significant increase in energy following their workout. So they actually won't do it past a certain time in the day just because they get a little hyped up afterwards and they actually have a harder time falling asleep. But in general it's almost any time that you can, can fit it into the day. And then if, of course, if you can be consistent with it, you know, around Three times per week. That's what's going to give you the most meaningful lasting.

Results. Okay, got it. Now how about the. You mentioned that the San Jose Sharks were one of the initial teams that use this thing. Not that I necessarily want you to try and try and sell a Vasper by just listing all the cool people that are using it. But I do know, you know, for example I was over in Dubai recently and I think somebody remarked to me that the Prince of Dubai has something like 12 of these in his garage or something like that that he rotates through. I know Tony Robbins uses it. What are some other teams or other people who seem to be using this thing with pretty good.

Efficacy? Yeah. So we're with The San Francisco 49ers, the Miami Dolphins. I was just in Germany installing a system for TSG Hoffenheim. So we're in the Bundesliga in professional soccer in Europe. Now there's a team in professional baseball that I'm actually not at liberty to mention. But before purchasing a system, we landed a trial with them during their spring training and they wanted to quantify the impact on five of their athletes. So they did a hormonal baseline on five athletes and then two weeks later they did eight sessions. During those two weeks measured them again. Actually the average increase in testosterone after eight sessions was 132% increase formerly athletes performance. It's an incredible company that primarily trains professional athletes in the off season as well as has huge inroads in corporate fitness as well as the military. Yeah, those are some of the top athletic organizations using it at this.

Time. I know that a lot of folks like you alluded to they will go to a facility to use something like this rather than. Because I mean let's face it, these things are expensive. I think the price point on a full Vasper unit, soup to nuts is north of 30K. Am I.

Correct? That is correct, yeah. Your fully loaded cost of a system in the US which includes your shipping, delivery, installation on site, training, the warranty, all of it included is.

45K. Okay. Now somebody could also though go to use this thing in their, in their local community. Like is that generally what happens is there's facilities that actually have these and if so how could somebody find a facility if they wanted to go try one.

Out? Definitely. I mean there's a growing number of health and wellness businesses, gyms, medical professionals, medical institutions that have successfully incorporated Vasper. Are you using it with their clients and with their patients? So from the homepage of our website in the upper right Corner, there's a locations tab. And from there you're able to find if there's a Vasper provider in your area. And that's a list that's growing every single.

Day. Okay, got it. Now, in terms of the actual way that this would get set up if somebody did want to actually put one into their own home, because I'm talking a lot of people have come to visit at my house, they actually do want to put one in their home.

Are there anything? Because again, that price point is a lot for a lot of people. Do you guys have payment plans, pricing plans, things like.

That? There's leasing and financing options available, but only for commercial installations, only for people that are looking to incorporate VASPER in a commercial operation and make it publicly available. So we have yet to find somebody that that's going to do the lending on the home.

Side. Right. But if you have like a personal training studio or you were a physical therapist, chiropractor, etc. You could do some kind of a lease.

Program. Absolutely, yeah. And there's a growing number of people doing exactly that. The average price per session in a commercial setting is right around $50. So with any steady degree of traffic, the earning potential of even a single system is actually really expensive, exciting. And in many cases people are able to realize a full return on investment in three to six months. And then it's all gravy at that.

Point. Yeah, I know it's pretty popular down at the upgraded labs down in Santa Monica and I believe Beverly Hills also has one. So there's a lot of people down there using it. And every time I'm around those facilities, somebody's on the vasper. And usually in many cases, and this is the case at my house too, kind of doing things in conjunction with it. Like I have one of those live O2 units, which is essentially like pressurized oxygen that you breathe while you're exercising, which has an effect on stem cell mobilization and inflammatory markers and mitochondrial production, et cetera. That one's called a live O2. That's sitting right next to my Vasper. So it's a mask I wear while I'm on the Vasper. I'm curious if you've seen people successfully utilizing technologies like that in conjunction with the Vasper. For all those people who are just far out biohackers or anything else people have used in conjunction with this thing to get even better.

Results. The main One is definitely Livo 2. We have a growing number of customers who have added Livo 2 to their system. And it's something that pairs very, very well with Vasper. Of course, to use Livo 2 you need an exercise platform and then just to do it with Vasper is just a total upgrade of both.

Cases. Right. Because the Livo 2 has to be next to a bike or a treadmill or something like that. Anyways, anything else that you find people are using along with the Vasper, whether it's like supplements or pre workouts, post workouts, anything like that, you know.

I haven't heard much with regards to supplements that people are pairing specifically with Vasper. It's really just, just general exercise and strength training that people are doing with Vasper and finding that in conjunction with using the system, they're seeing a lot more synergy in the work that they're putting in. So it really is sort of the ultimate complement to any existing strength training regime in optimizing your hormones for better performance, better gains and better.

Recovery. Now, how about stem cells? I believe it was you that mentioned to me that you guys had looked at, at the potential for increasing mobilization of stem cells. Like I mentioned, you know, probably one of the best at home ways to do that that I know of from a, from a biohacking standpoint is hyperbaric oxygen therapy, which is incredibly effective for stem cell mobilization. But what have you guys found as far as the Vasper and mobilization of stem cells or growth of stem.

Cells? Yeah, there's actually a study that took place at the Andrews Institute in Gulf Breeze, Florida, the Dr. Adam Anns, and he found that after a single Vasper session.

HSC stem cells increased in the blood really significantly. And that's something that's listed on the research page of our website. And I believe that's something that's in the process of actually being.

Published. Yeah, the HSCs are hematopoietic stem cells. Those are the ones that could become mostly any type of blood cell, like a red blood cell or a platelet or a white blood cell cell. So you're seeing a significant increase in those HSCs in response to a.

Vasper workout, Even a single session? Yeah. As well as white blood count also increased after a single Vasper.

Session. Interesting. What about TBI and concussion? I think that's another one that you guys have done some research.

On. Yeah, that's one of the most exciting and recent studies that's in the process of being published right now. It's from a Dr. Robert Contu and the Contu Concussion center, which is part of Emerson Hospital just outside of Boston. He's a World renowned expert on this. In many cases, if they're doing a story on the news or HBO Real Sports about brain trauma in the NFL, he's one of the doctors that they're going to be interviewing. There's a study that's in the process of being published right now where there is a control group and a Vasper group, both dealing with post concussive syndrome. And the control group was going the interval protocol on the new step, but of course without the cooling and without the compression. And then the experimental group was doing the Vasper protocol in conjunction with the regular rehab and they found that the Vasper group improved much more significantly with less symptom variability and symptom severity even in, I think it was like a six week follow up after concluding their Vasper.

Program. Okay, so in terms of TBI and concussion, do you think that that's due to the growth hormone response due to the production of the vascular endothelial growth factor, or have you guys hypothesized at all as to mechanism of action as to how this thing's working for TBI or blood flow to the.

Brain? I think it's exactly both of those things. It's the increase in anabolic hormones which is going to help things heal and then just being able to increase perfusion to the brain, but of course through a really low impact in platform. In many cases, in the case of tbi, it's difficult to do any meaningful exercise without aggravating the injury itself. Finding something that's low impact enough that's actually going to initiate this hormone response is what we're finding with.

Vasper. Yeah, it is interesting too. I know there's been some investigation on lactate levels and protection of neurons against excitotoxicity. So some of it could be just concentrated in the lactic acid and keeping it in there for 21 minutes is having some kind of positive neuronal effect as well. So it's really interesting. I mean, regardless, something is happening and you have a lot of moving parts on this thing, both literally and figuratively. So might be tough to kind of figure out exactly what it is. But regardless, it's a, it's a fascinating, fascinating machine. And I understand there's, there's probably a lot of people listening right now who have a little bit of sticker shock on the price of something like this. But again, even if you just hunt one down in your local community, try it out and you get a chance to pop in there, you know, even just two or three times a week to Use this. It is amazingly incredible when it comes to compressing an enormous amount of exercise benefits into a very short, short period of time. Probably one of the favorite exercise and I'm remiss to use this term too much but I'm going to do it anyways. Favorite exercise biohacks that I have ever used. So if anyone is listening and you get a chance to try this then you should. If you're listening in and you like to own nice things or money is not an issue for you this would be a no brainer to add to your gym or to add to your fitness facility or anywhere else where you want to use this thing. I think it with the, with Liveo2 next to it. I mean that's, that's an amazing one two combo. I mean I, I can literally rock this until I'm like 98 years old and be able to do it with, with zero pain at all which is really nice because it's all, you know, it's all impact free training on this new step and then once you add the cold wraps and the compression you literally do not feel thing in your joints which I really appreciate as well I can, I've had low back injuries, knee injuries. I've done a few things since I've gotten the Vasperin every time I can continue to use it. So yeah, I dig it. Sebastian. It's a pretty cool.

Device. Awesome. I'm really happy to hear.

That. Yeah. And is it just vasper.com, v a s p e r.com where people can go and, and look into it more or fill out a form to get in touch with.

You? Exactly. Yeah. So vasper.com is the website we're Vasper systems everywhere else on social media and through the contact form there you're able to get more information and we can start a.

Conversation. Cool. And I think you guys put some information about how I'm using it and some videos of me using it. I think that's vasper.com.

So you go to vasper.com Ben I think there's, there's some kind of an offer there too. It's like a thousand dollars off or a thousand dollar towards the unit or something like that. So if you want even better deal you go to vasper.com ben and there's a, there's a cool offer there. And then the other thing that I'll do if you go to BenGreenFitness.com TheVaspersHow that's BenGreenFulfitness.com the VanSpersHow I'll link to the other episode I did way back in the day on the Vasper, as well as everything else that we talked about Today, like the Livo 2 unit, some of the research that Sebastian and I discussed, etc. Along with some links to photos and videos of me using this thing. So Sebastian, anything else you wanted to share about the Vasper with us before I let.

You? God, I feel like we covered a lot of it. Just encourage people to actually get on and experience it themselves. It's one of those things that once you get on and have a session for yourself, it's something that is readily apparent that there's a visceral change taking place in your physiology, and it's something that people want to continue with. So there's a growing number of providers and hopefully there'll be one in your area that you're able to engage.

With. Yeah, cool. Well, I dig it. So anyways, again, the shownotes are at BenGreenfulFitness.com TheVaspersHow you can check out more about the Vasper at Vasper.

And until next time, I'm Ben Greenfield along with Sebastian Wasowski from Vasper Systems, signing out from BenGreenfieldFitness.com have an amazing week.

Well, thanks for listening to today's show. You can grab all the show notes, the resources, pretty much everything that I mentioned over@BenGreenfieldFitness.com along with plenty of other goodies from me, including the highly helpful Ben Recommends page, which is a list of pretty much everything that I've ever recommended for hormones, sleep digestion, fat loss, performance, and plenty more. Please also know that all the links, all the promo codes that I mentioned during this and every episode help to make this podcast happen and to generate income that enables me to keep bringing you this content every single week. So when you listen in, be sure to use the links in the show notes. Use the promo codes that I generate because that helps to float this thing and keep it coming to you each and every week.