The Myth About "Grounding", Acupuncture Without Needles, 400% Increase In Stem Cell Production &...

Hey, have you ever gotten acupuncture? You hate needles. Well, then today's podcast is for you because you learn about a way to get acupuncture without needles and also how to get a 400% increase in stem cell production. Crazy. I've been messing around with the stuff I talk about with my guest, Dr. William Pollock in today's show, and it's pretty cool. You're gonna dig this episode and the show notes that go along with it, which I will tell you where to get later. But right now I want to tell you about the stuff I put on my salad. Yes, on my salad, it comes in three flavors. Herbs de Provence. Just makes me sound very sophisticated. French onion and ginger, my favorite. And it's MCT oil. It's emulsified MCT oil made from 100% coconut oil. And what emulsification means is that combines air and water, makes fats disperse evenly through liquids. Aren't I a smart cookie? And then you get absorbed. You don't get absorbed. The fats get absorbed. The MCT medium chain triglycerides get absorbed so you can rely upon them as a quick and healthy source of readily available energy. And this company on it now makes these emulsified MCT oils and the flavors that I was mentioning, like ginger and herb. It's savory MCT oil. It's really cool. So you can do everything from like put it in bone broth to over salads. There's a great recipe on their website for a cheesy herbed mashed cauliflower you can do with this stuff anyways, and you save 10% on it. Go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com onnit BenGreenfieldFitness.com o n n I t you get 10% off of your own emulsified MCT oil when no cheesy herb mashed cauliflower will ever, ever be the same. This podcast is also brought to you by something I walked in on my wife yesterday using. Yes, I walked in on her using this very rare for me to find her using one of my supplements. In this case, she was taking this blend of cordyceps and beetroot and pomegranate and all these amazing, particularly superfoods for building your blood. And she was dipping truffles in them, chocolate truffles that she made. She was making an organifi red juice chocolate truffle. Amazing. The uses of these red juice and green juice and gold juice powders that my friend Drew Canole over at Organifi Makes it's astounding. It is mind blowing and they taste really good. And they don't require you to go shopping for all this stuff. They make a green juice, they make a red juice. They make honestly my favorite right now. They're gold juice. It's amazing. And you get any of it. For 20% off, go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com Organifi that's Organifi with an I. BenGreenfieldFitness.com organifi discount code. Ben gets you 20% off of the green juice. And red Ben? Yes, as in red Ben gets you 20% off of their red juice. There you go. And of course, each and every episode of the Ben Gripital Fitness show is brought to you by my company, Kion. Kion makes amazing, amazing supplements that are hatched by the evil nefarious mind of yours truly. I come up with formulations, we design them at Kion. We've got everything from colostrum to an amazing anti aging skin serum, one of the best joint support compounds known to man. It's like a shotgun of bioavailable nutrients for your joints. We're having fun over there making amazing, amazing products. And there's also coaching. You can get coached by a Kion coach who's trained by yours truly as well as books. We've got our gratitude journal over there that I designed my book beyond training. It's all over at Kion. K I O N Ki like prana chakra, Life force energy. That's what key stands for and that's how you pronounce it. Go to getkeon.com getkeon.com G-E-T K I-O-N.com Instant Coupon is over there. Check it out.

In this episode of the Ben Greenfield Fitness show.

If my mind is going a mile a minute, I have a hard time either falling asleep or staying asleep. So I'll just put it right under my neck and that usually helps to make make me not care. So you could actually put a magnet under your pillow under theta and have a microphone under your pillow listening to the Encyclopedia Britannica. In other words, the frequency that we're presented with, the magnetic field goes right through the brain and it's causing the brain to listen to the signal which is stronger than the energy produced by the brain itself.

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Hey, folks, it's Ben Greenfield. And last week, I actually, I got a little bit of an upper hamstring strain doing a single leg deadlift out in the garage, actually, of a previous podcast guest, Paul Cech. And when I got home, what I did was. And I actually have this slapped literally on my butt right now. There's a good visual for you starting today's podcast. I hope you're not sitting drinking your morning cup of coffee with that visual. But I've got strapped around my butt right now this thing called a pulsed electromagnetic field therapy device. That's a mouthful. PEMF device. In this case, something called a flex pulse. And I've experimented with a whole bunch of different forms of PEMF therapy, but in this case, it's basically sending a signal of, I believe, although my guest expert today will be able to clarify with me a signal of about 100 hertz or so into that area of my body, literally to tune up the cells, which I know is.

A very plain Jane explanation of what PEMF is. But don't worry, we're going to delve deep into magnetic science today. And I'm doing this because of the host of research that shows that PEMF can be used for soft tissue injuries. It can be used to heal up bones and fractures more quickly. I probably have to be careful about anything else I say so that the FDA doesn't come knocking on my door. But regardless, PEMF is pretty powerful stuff and a lot of people use it for. And this is actually why I first started using PEMF was for sleep, because it produces almost like a grounding or an earthing type of frequency similar to what you'd get generated by the planet Earth, and can also kind of lull you into, like, different brainwave frequencies, you know, kind of kind of sending you a signal that tunes your brain to a certain extent. Now, I should probably shut up because the doctor I have on today's show knows way more about people PEMF than I do and may in fact be snickering at my layman's explanation of it. But he actually has held previous academic positions at Johns Hopkins University and University of Maryland. He practices medicine near Baltimore, Maryland, now, and he does Some very holistic things like acupuncture and homeopathy and hypnosis and bodywork. But he's also considered to be one of the world's foremost authorities on the use of this PEMF therapy. He's even written a book on healing the body with magnetic fields called Power Tools for Health. And in that book, he goes over a whole bunch of different health conditions with literally hundreds of scientific references on pemf. So he's one of the most authoritative guys out there when it comes to this stuff. His name is Dr. William Pollock. You may have heard of him before. Dr. William Pollack. P A W L U K. And to access the show notes for today's show, you can also go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com Pawlik that's P A W L U K where I'll put links and resources to everything that Dr. Pollack and I talk about. So, Dr. Pollock, that all being said, how are you doing this morning? And do you also have PEMF attached to your butt like I do?

Good morning, Ben. Thank you for inviting me to talk with you and your. And your tribe, if you will. Do I use PEMFs every day?

Well, I was. I was actually specifically. Yeah, I was specifically asking you if you. If you. If you had it on. On your butt.

However, I do sometimes.

Okay.

I do sometimes.

Just. Just checking. So. So you use PMF every day. Give. Give me some examples of ways that you would use PMF every day.

Well, in fact, actually, I use the Flex Pulse device for sleep. I put it under my pillow. It's right under my pillow. Sometimes I actually have to put it under my neck. Not under the pillow, but directly on my body. So if my mind is going a mile a minute, I have a hard time either falling asleep or staying asleep. So I'll just put it right under my neck. And that usually helps to make me not care.

Okay. So I have one of these FlexPulse devices. You sent it to me, and it basically, it's like this tiny little thing that I can put in my bag, and it has, I believe, six different settings on it. Like, that range for everything from, like, extremely high frequencies to extremely low frequencies. Maybe to help people wrap their head around this. Could you walk through, you know, using the FlexPulse as an example, not only what the FlexPulse is and, you know, how you designed it, but also perhaps walk us through what each of those different programs does? Because I think that'd be a perfect way to explain, like, what the different hertz frequencies of PEMF can actually accomplish from a cellular standpoint.

All right, so frequency is how quickly and rapidly something repeats itself in a specific time frame. So hertz is the typical term used to describe a frequency. So hertz H, E, R, T, Z, like the car company, is cycles per second, the number of repetitions or cycles per second. Another way to image a frequency is the wave pattern in waves in a pond after you throw the rock in a pond. So that's what we're doing with PEMFs is we're emitting a magnetic field that is pulsed at specific frequencies.

Okay?

Life is full of frequency. There is nothing that happens in life that is not a frequency. And in fact, there is nothing that happens in life at all, whether you're a rock or a human. That is not a magnetic field, that's not influenced or a magnetic field is not involved with. So virtually everything has magnetic fields involved with it down to the level of the atom.

Right? Not just cell phones, your own cells produce an electrical field that would be considered to be a native emf, whereas some of the things that are out there would be considered non native EMFs. Right? Like cell towers or microwave signals, etc.

Microwaves are not in fact totally manufactured because we actually have microwaves coming through the polar regions to the planet. Sunlight is at extremely high frequencies. They're not really quite microwave frequencies. Microwaves are even higher than that in terms of the number of cycles per second. But we are exposed to microwave type frequencies regularly, but they're very, very low intensity. So that's why they don't tend to bother us the same way that a cell phone would, or sticking your head in a microwave oven.

Right. The way that I understand it is the difference between like a native EMF or a therapeutic emf, such as one that would be generated by a PEMF device, or such as would be generated by a rock or a tree or the earth would be the exposure time and the wavelength and the frequency. Correct.

So all frequencies can essentially be useful for humans. There are radio frequency waves which are essentially microwaves that are used to burn a nerve. So, for example, if something's pinching a nerve or the nerve is inflamed, you can burn the nerve. We use electrical stimulation at high frequency to actually cauterize blood vessels when people are having surgeries. So they're used across an entire range. What we're talking about here, when we talk about PEMFs in the way we're talking about are describing a flex pulse, is we're talking about low magnetic fields, low frequency being less than, let's say, 100,000 hertz.

Okay. And to put that into perspective, what would be. What would a cell phone generate if a PEMF device would generate a hundred.

Thousand hertz gigahertz, megahertz.

Okay.

So millions and billions of hertz.

Okay.

Now the body, when you go back to the way the Flex Pulse was designed, it was designed primarily to be able to provide frequencies to the body that are essentially resonant with the frequencies of the. Of the brain itself or the body itself primarily.

What's that mean for something to be resonant with the. With the signals from the brain or the body?

That it is basically like you. If you have people singing in harmony, that is resonant. If I'm singing at a bass frequency or a bass level, that is resonant. If I have two people singing at that same bass level, if they're in phase, then they sound right. If they're out of phase, they sound wrong. So when you're resonant, then you're basically in tune with each other. A good example actually is a radial, an old analog radio, not a digital, not the new radio systems, but where you had to actually turn a dial. The radio waves from the radio stations are out in the atmosphere. They're all out there all the time. When we tune the dial, we're taking the dial and putting it into a certain setting, let's say 110 on the FM dial. When you put it on 110, then the radio waves in the atmosphere that resonate with 110 all of a sudden sort of lock in to 110 and you hear the station. On that kind of dialing system, if you're off by just even a small amount, there's a lot of fuzz. You don't hear it clearly. And you jiggle the dial just a little bit one way or the other, and all of a sudden you lock in the signal. That's resonance.

Okay. Okay, got it. So when we're using something like a pmf, what that's doing, as opposed to like a harmful emf, is it's actually generating a signal that. That vibrates or that is at a frequency that's very similar to whatever cellular function that we're trying to target with that signal, whether it be a brainwave frequency for sleep or whether it be frequency associated with cellular healing, et cetera.

Perfect. Exactly. So when we're sleeping, depending on the phase of sleep that we're in, like when we go into a very, very deep sleep. About an hour to two hours into sleep, we go into something called delta or slow wave sleep. Slow wave sleep is somewhere between one to four hertz, okay, one to four cycles per second. So if you're having trouble sleeping, then that means that the brain is actually out of that range. And most of the night we actually spend in theta, which is between 5 and 8 hertz. So when we're not able to sleep or we're even aware of our dreams or aware of sounds around us, even our own breathing, then we have escaped that level of sleep, that level of frequency. So we may be up at 9 or 10 hertz instead. So when you present the body with a frequency at, say, 3 Hz or even 7 Hz, you're bringing the brain wave. You're tuning the brain to tune down to that frequency. In other words, the frequency that we're presented with, the magnetic field goes right through the brain, and it's causing the brain to listen to the signal, which is stronger than the energy produced by the brain itself or the frequencies produced by the brain. So that means the brain will quiet down.

Okay, so, so which program would that be? If I were using the Flex pulse, Is that program one?

All right, so let's go through the programs. Program one is 10 hertz.

Okay.

Program two is.

10 hertz plus 100 hertz.

Well, backing up just a second, like the program won 10 Hz. What does 10 Hz do? What would be the main things that one would use 10 Hz for?

10 Hz is used first of all, in terms of the brain, 10 hertz is alpha rhythm. It's a relaxation, meditation, daydreaming, watching the soaps not interacting. That's 10 hertz. But also, it's been found in NASA research to stimulate stem cells, but it also stimulates all kinds of processes in the body.

What do you mean to stimulate stem cells?

Well, they did a study at NASA where they took a stem cell culture of nerve stem cells, and they grow these cultures and they have what they call control conditions. So they have a culture that is growing on its own naturally. And then you have a culture that's getting various kinds of stimulation. So if you stimulate a stem cell culture with a 10 Hz square wave signal, that all of a sudden you get a 400% increase in the production of stem cells in that culture.

That's amazing. I had no clue that research existed. Do you think if you shot that over to me that I could embed that in the show? Notes for Today's show?

I sure can.

Okay, cool. I love to put little studies in that people discuss that are interesting like that. So basically, these alpha brainwaves, this program, 10 hertz, it can stimulate stem cells. I believe you mentioned that it is the same frequency that is stimulated when one is watching the soaps. Is that what you said?

Yes. Well, you're really not engaged. You're not excited. You're just watching.

Okay, good. We can tuck this one away from when we're watching the soaps. I know a lot of our fans watch, watch, watch, what's it called? Soap operas on tv. Fantastic. Good. We've got that base covered. Okay, so it's alpha brainwave frequency is what this would promote. We know it could help with stem cell production. When else would someone use something like a 10 Hz freque?

Well, if you want to relax, but you don't want to go to sleep.

Okay, so you wouldn't use this for sleep. You would use it more for, like, stress at work, that type of thing.

Exactly, exactly. And there's another program, program four, that you can use for relaxation as well. But 10 hertz is what we call alpha rhythm. And if kids with ADD or ADHD, they love 10 hertz, their brains love 10 hertz. So 10 hertz is a stabilizing frequency to the brain. It's kind of neutral. Kind of neutral frequency for the brain.

Okay, got it. What about circadian rhythmicity and jet lag? From what I understand, 10 Hertz may be helpful with that, but I'm not sure if there's any actual research out there.

Oh, there's actually some excellent research that was originally done in Germany in bunkers where they took people and eliminated the environment from them completely. Temperature pressures.

Circadian rhythm, light rhythms, and so on. So they lived in these bunkers for months at a time. And inside the bunkers, they measured their circadian rhythms and discovered that when you blank out the surrounding influences of the environment, they became dysrhythmic. That was their circadian rhythms went out of rhythm and they started having all kinds of health issues. When they reintroduced all kinds of frequencies back into that environment, they discovered 10 Hz stabilized and restored circadian rhythm.

Oh, wow. Interesting. So this is something that you would use. For example, you could. Would you want it touching your head if you were. Let's say I were to fly. What's my next flight? I'm going to Costa Rica. When I arrive in Costa Rica, would I then wear it touching the body? Would I use it on the plane or what would be the best time to use that frequency, do you think flying is good?

Probably most from end of the trip because your rhythms are changing continuously through that trip. Okay, so you kind of want to end up at the end of your trip because then that's where the major adjustment of the body has to happen is at the end of the trip. You could use it during the trip. No problem with that either.

Yeah, I actually have one device. I interviewed these folks from a company called Nest Health, and they have a device that's kind of. It's kind of a mix of like PEMF and transcutaneous nerve stimulation. And that one actually has a setting on it called airplane mode that generates a frequency that helps to mitigate some of the more harmful EMFs generated when one is on a plane. And you actually have that on while you're on the plane. I'd never thought about using a 10 Hz frequency during the actual flight itself, but I'd be curious if that would make any difference. But what you're saying is that in a lot of these studies, they're using it after the body's been exposed to the circadian disruption.

Disruption, yeah. But you can use it throughout. So either way, in fact, I know many people who use it on a flight because they get back pain or they can't. If you trans fly transatlantic, I call it flying Delta, I actually use my battery operated flex pulse and put it at the back of my neck and I run it through the whole time that I'm flying.

You mean Delta brainwaves, not Delta, the airline?

That's right.

I see what you did there. Okay, got it. Okay, so. So 10 hertz. We know that that would be good for. For stem cell production, for neural stem cells. We know it would be good for focus, especially if you are in a stressed out state. We know it would be good for jet lag after you've gotten to where you're traveling. Not necessarily for sleeping on the plane, because for that you'd want to use the Delta brainwave frequency, but for specifically helping out with circadian disruption. And then we move on to program two on this thing. And before we move on to program two, what I'm curious about is when I'm looking at this flexpulse, you know, it's basically like this little handheld device with the white square coming off it. What. What is it that's happening when. When I'm using this little white square that I place somewhere on. On my body or near my body. What, what's. What's happening with this white square thing. And I'll put a picture in the show notes for those of you guys who want to see it.

The white square is what we call a coil.

Okay.

So how does a magnetic field. How is it produced? It's produced by running current through a wireless. When you run current through a wire when it's going in one direction, a current will produce an electric current, will produce a magnetic field around it. All wires running current have a magnetic field around it. So that wire goes out to that coil, and that coil spreads out the amount of copper wiring that's moving in a specific direction, and that produces an even more concentrated magnetic field. So the coil itself is what emits the magnetic field. That's used for therapy.

Okay. Does it matter which. Because there's two sides of this square, does it matter which side that you use or which side is touching your body?

There's some debate about that, and there are many people who make claims about north versus south. But when it comes to pulse magnetic fields, it really doesn't matter. There's some theoretical physics that suggests there may be some difference, but practically speaking, to the body, it doesn't make any difference which direction you put it.

Okay. Did you design this thing, this flexpulse?

I didn't design it, but I had input into the design, and.

It'S being manufactured by a German manufacturer.

Okay. And from what I understand, the main unique thing about it is the ability to choose different programs, different hertz frequencies. And in addition to the portability, well.

There'S several important aspects to the flex pulse. One is what you just said. The second is that it's portable. In other words, battery operated, and you can recharge the battery very quickly. Also, these are nickel metal hydride batteries, so they don't have the risks that you have with these ion batteries. Lithium ion.

What do you mean? What risks?

Well, you know, the lithium ion batteries can explode.

Oh, okay, gotcha.

So there's a lot of the unpleasant.

On an airplane, it will be very.

What not onto your body because they get extraordinarily hot, so they could burn you.

That could throw off that good night of sleep you're looking for totally.

For a long time. So it's got the portability, it's got multiple programs built into it. It's got a high enough magnetic field intensity to do the job. Very low intensity magnetic fields don't do as good a job. Based on a law of physics called Faraday's law, the higher the intensity of the magnetic field interacting with the ions in the body, the larger the amount of charge production in the body. You need charge to change.

You need charge to be able to change the cells of the body to be able to rebalance themselves and to heal. So it's got all of those attributes that you want in a device. And probably the most important thing, really is that it's portable. You could wear it, you could walk around with it. You don't have to sit there plugged into the wall to do your treatment.

Right. Which is what I really like about it. I'm on the go so much, I don't have time for these giant devices that you got to sit in a chair and wrap around your whole body. So this flex pulse, we know that program one produces this 10 Hz frequency, and then program two, correct me if I'm wrong, it's 100 Hz.

No, actually it is 100 Hz, but actually it's alternating. Every minute it changes frequency. So for one minute it does 10 hertz, then it flips over to 100 hertz for a minute, then it flips back to 10 and so on. Keeps alternating throughout the whole time that you're using it. The reason for the 100Hz is that a lot of physical musculoskeletal research on culture cells, muscle cells, muscle muscle preparations, where they stimulate muscles in a bath, an ionic bath, frog muscles, et cetera. They've discovered that the ions flowing in and out of cells work better at 100 hertz. So there's more repair work happening at 100 hertz than just 10 hertz. So when you combine the two, you tend to get much better stimulation of musculoskeletal issues.

Okay, so right now, I'm actually running program two with the square thing on my butt. I won't put a picture of that in the show notes, by the way, you guys. And what that's doing is that's actually assisting with the hamstring repair and recovery, specifically by allowing flow of nutrients and blood in and out of that area.

It's doing multiple things. So, number one, it's improving circulation, as you said, which brings in more nutrients, it brings in more oxygen, but it's also reducing inflammation, it's reducing swelling. So any muscle that's strained, any tissue that's strained or even broken, torn, has a lot of swelling around it. And that's one of the reasons athletes use ice. Ice is actually a useless, pretty useless therapy, but it does get swelling down. Unfortunately, it could also damage cells. So you're kind of trying to Accomplish one thing, but unfortunately causing other side effects.

Are you talking about the lymph fluid backflow that can occur with ice. That would damage the cells.

That too, but it also suppresses nerve cell function. So that's one of the reasons you feel less pain with ice, because the nerves, in a sense, become deadened temporarily.

Now, I've actually used that to my advantage before, not to bring us down too deep of a rabbit hole. I've used electrical muscle stimulation, which is different than pemf, and also tens, which is more nerve stimulation. And I've actually taken those electrodes and I learned this from a Tour de France physician. He would put something like topical magnesium on an area. So the signal from the electrodes drove the magnesium deeper into the tissue and then the electrodes. But then he would cover it up with ice to allow for the nerves to be deadened so that a higher frequency could be delivered. Being kind of using that deadening of nerves.

To his advantage. What's your take on a strategy like that?

Magnetic fields trump that.

Okay, so you just say use magnetic fields instead of using the ice plus the ems.

Right, because magnetic fields automatically decrease the irritability of nerves.

Oh, really?

Right away? Yes. So you have all of these other multiple actions happening simultaneously with the magnetic field. So you really don't need any other therapy. I'll give you a story. My wife broke her little toe. The toe was angled up from her foot. I knew as a doctor, I knew it was broken. I've seen it many times. And she refused to have an X ray. So we said, okay, fine, let's treat it as a broken toe. So we buddy taped it, put her in what we call a platform shoe, a flat shoe, so she couldn't bend her toes. She started the magnetic therapy, the Flex Pulse 24 7. So this happened around noon the next morning. She woke up, no swelling, no bruising, and no pain.

Holy cow.

She continued it for another 24 hours. And the following morning, of course there was no swelling, no bruising, etc. She walked a mile in tennis shoes, did it for another 24 hours and walked three miles in tennis shoes. And that was basically the end of the story.

Now, I know that some people are going to kind of like have an eyebrow raised because you operate a website that sells PEMF devices. And so I'm just going to jump in there and play devil's advocate. Is there some kind of like third party independent website? I mean, I know there's PubMed, obviously, and I'm going to link to some Research in the show notes. But that kind of keeps track of a lot of this research that's been done on PMFs in addition to case studies like you've just outlined, which are helpful. Is there like good peer reviewed independent research on this stuff?

Oh, well, there's actually tons. Most of it unfortunately is in textbooks, which are very difficult to access and very expensive. There is a website that is in Germany. I'd have to find it for you. I think it's called Aachen A C.

H E N. Okay, I'll find it. I'm a good detective. I can sleuth it down and put it. I just like to give people independent research as well. But that's fascinating about your wife. That makes me want to keep this thing on my butt all day long for at least 24 hours. And so.

That'S pulsing between 10 hertz and 100 hertz. And that's primarily for muscle repair and for tissue healing. That's like for the athletes listening. And that's kind of like the money.

Program to use for musculoskeletal. Yes. Now virtually any program that you use is going to help regardless.

Yeah, but if you were falling asleep, you wouldn't want to use like a thousand hertz frequency, would you?

1000 hertz probably is not bad. But what wouldn't be probably a good idea would be to use program five, which is the alerting program.

Okay, we'll get, we'll get to that one in a second. But let's, let's not jump over 3 and 4. What would 3 be used for?

So program 3 is my go to sleep program. It's delta.

So delta what hertz frequency is that?

Three hertz.

Okay.

Now we decided not to put ranges of frequencies into this system. And the reason for that is my own experience with sound light machines over the years and other kinds of devices where the machine is actually trying to cause your body to do what body might normally do. The problem is that the timing of what your body would do and what the machine is doing may not actually coincide. So to me, trying to do this for the body is basically a bit like training wheels. You know, you start off with training wheels, but you don't want to keep using them. But when do you give up on training wheels? Instead, if you supply the body with one frequency, it will do what it wants to around that frequency. It will ramp down as fast as it wants to or as slow as it wants to. It'll ramp back up again as the light comes in the room. The light coming in the room may defeat the.

Suppressing stimulation of the brain by the magnetic fields. So given one hertz makes it simple for the body.

Okay, so this is just the 3 hertz. Now, in addition to sleep, would there be anything else that one would use 3 hertz for or that you've seen research that would show to be beneficial for.

Primarily for sleep, but again, anything that slows any process down. So if you have a lot of really significant irritability from muscle pain or nerve pain and it's making you very irritable, it's a sharp, aching pain, you might want to use 3 hertz because that really, again, slows everything down from a frequency perspective in the body.

Okay.

You don't have to, but you might find that 3 Hz may actually, for a while, for some period of time, may work better than, say, 7 hertz or 10 hertz.

Got it. And you put this under your pillow, or else you ensure that that square piece is actually touching your head.

Usually I put it under my pillow, but if I'm really struggling even with that to sleep, I will just put it under my head.

Okay, Got it. Perfect. Okay, cool. This is really helpful to walk through this because I've always kind of been curious about which frequencies do what. So number four. What would number four be?

So program four is what we call the Schumann resonance.

Okay. That relates to the earthing and the grounding that I talked about earlier. Right. Isn't that the frequency emitted by the planet Earth?

Well, and that's a misconception as well. So, yes, that's considered the average resonance of the planet, but it isn't even the planet. So there's a distinction between the planet and the environment of the planet, if you will. There is a magnetic field produced by the planet itself, which is a stationary magnetic field, and that's about a half a gauss on average. So that means a static field. It doesn't move. It doesn't change a whole lot. But there are other frequencies that are in the ionosphere that are generated by lightning storms around the planet. The ionosphere is basically a cavity.

And so, in a sense, you could image or imagine that the frequencies produced by lightning anywhere on the planet ends up reverberating in that chamber in that ionospheric cavity. And because the frequencies are so low, 3 Hz frequency is thousands of miles long.

Oh, wow.

So a lightning storm in Sri Lanka is actually going to be felt in North America within seconds.

That's amazing. And that's all based off of the hertz frequency. That's produced by the lightning storm.

Exactly.

And that hertz frequency is one single hertz, like the 7.8 hertz you're talking about, or a range.

So there you go. That's the key question when you talk about the Earth's frequencies. 7.8 Hz is considered to be the average Schumann resonant, But actually there's about six different Schumann resonance spikes.

Okay.

All right. So what the brain is tuned to. So here's the connection between the brain and the Schumann resonances, or the ionospheric resonance patterns. They're all generally within the frequency pattern of the brain. So the ionospheric frequencies are what actually tunes the brain to function the way it is. So biology. If you imagine this, the biology on this planet depending on one's perspectives. Biblically, the biology on the planet has been here for hundreds of millions of years, billions of years. It's evolved with all of that electromagnetic stimulation.

So our brains actually evolved because of that cavity and the effects of the atmosphere in that cavity. If we leave the planet and go to Mars, we're no longer in the atmosphere of the Earth. We can become significantly dysregulated because we no longer have those kinds of frequencies that are naturally part of our biology.

Gotcha. Interesting. Now, would this be the same thing as what is referred to as geomagnetic fields when we're talking about the different magnetic fields produced by the planet?

This is one of the geomagnetic fields. Correct.

Okay. All right, got it. Now, what do you think about these earthing mats or grounding mats that people use?

I think they work very well. I think the body is definitely.

Needs simulation of different kinds. I think our biology, again, going back millions of years or Even more recently, 100,000 years, is used to us sleeping on the ground, basically.

So that we're closer to the actual Earth itself. Don't forget, the soils themselves are emitting all kinds of frequencies because of all the minerals in them.

Yeah, yeah. Well, even the human body, from what I understand, we have certain amounts of the mineral. I believe it's called magnetite in the human body. That also helps to transmit frequencies throughout the body.

Absolutely. We have probably a billion magnetite particles per gram of brain.

Oh, wow.

So the. The brain itself then, is a huge receiver.

Transmitter.

Interesting.

Because of the magnetite. So the magnetite is basically like crystals. It's like radio crystals and crystals in a radio set.

But do we need to consume magnetite, or can our bodies produce that based on a wide range of minerals that. That we just consume? Ourselves.

The body naturally produces it right from birth.

Okay, okay, gotcha. So your body actually produces.

Once it's made, it's made.

Got it. So you can't leach it? You can't like sweat out magnetite or leach it as you could other minerals?

No, you can't.

Okay. Interesting.

It's actually a complex mineral.

Interesting. Yeah, a lot of people aren't aware of that specific mineral being so prevalent in the human body.

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Ben also, very quick note here. You may be familiar with the Art of Charm podcast. My friend Jordan Harbinger actually was a host of that podcast and I've had him on this show before. Amazing wealth of knowledge. He's been podcasting for almost a dozen years. He's like one of the OGs of podcasting and he has a lot of very interesting tips and tricks and experiences. He's done a thousand interviews, he's learned five languages, he's Gotten arrested in a country that doesn't even exist anymore. His name is Jordan. Jordan Harbinger. Now, the Art of Charm podcast is what he was doing. That show he's no longer doing. He has a new show called the Jordan Harbinger Show. He's my friend. I wanted to give his show a shout out. It's called the Jordan Harbinger Show. He teaches what to do in a crisis and how to cultivate resilience and grit and how to handle uncertainty and instability and how to protect your mindset so you're always performing the top of your game. Lots of practicals. Lots of practicals. I like his stuff. He's a good guy. So anyways, how do you get access to his fantastic show? You just search for the Jordan Harbinger Show. H A R B I N G E R. Jordan Harbinger. Find him in Apple Podcasts. Google him. Google the Jordan Harbinger Show. You can find him on Podcast one, Podcast one app, anywhere. Fine podcasts are found. The Jordan Harbinger Show. Check it out. That is kind of like the replacement for that Art of Charm podcast. All right, back to the show. So ultimately, coming full circle, the average of the environmental frequencies that are produced around us come out to about this 7.8 or 7.83 hertz. And from what I understand, that specific hertz frequency, rather than being associated with the delta produced by program three, which would be three hertz, this specifically is associated with more of a theta brainwave frequency, which would be more like, from what I understand, what you'd use for learning, for focus, for memory, for creativity, et cetera.

Theta is the primary frequency that we are in when we fall asleep.

But isn't it also something that you use that you come across like, I know a lot of infants and young children, when they're awake, they're mostly in theta. And from what I understand, like, theta actually is a brainwave that you're in when you are trying to put massive amounts of information into the brain as well. Is that correct?

When you're trying to put massive amounts of information in the brain, you're not actively learning, you're passively learning.

Okay, so what you're saying is, well, I'm confused now. Would you actually have this device in delta program three while asleep for relaxation, or in theta program four, so that you get all of the learning benefits that passively occur while you're asleep? Because we know that memory formation and some neural healing occurs during sleep.

So you're right. Why we choose a specific frequency, like 3 Hz is because the brain, even maximum stimulation to the brain at 3 Hz does not create 3 Hz throughout the entire brain. Different parts of the brain are functioning at various frequencies. So you might only have, say maybe 10% of your brain at 3 hertz. And other parts of the brain are whatever frequencies they happen to be at. There are parts of your brain when you're sleeping that are 23 hertz. There are parts of the brain that are at 7 hertz. There are parts that are 10 hertz. What you're trying to do then is to increase the general amount by a certain percentage. But even a 5% or 10% increase in the amount of delta in the brain is going to influence the brain in the direction of delta. But it doesn't eliminate theta and it doesn't certainly eliminate all theta. Okay, so you still have theta prevalent.

So you would probably have it in delta frequency then if you were asleep.

That's what I use, and that's what I call anchoring the brain.

What would be a time that you'd use program four then?

So program four, it can be used because it's theta. It can be used, as you said, for learning purposes. When you're trying to do a brain dump, you're listening to a lecture and you're not trying to pay attention, trying to listen to a lecture, which is high density information. So the best thing to do when it's that way, when the information is just. You're drowning in information.

Go. Which is theta meditation, and you're completely assimilating that information. It's going deep into your subconscious and studies. Research has shown that people who learn under theta. So you could actually put a magnet under your pillow under theta and have a microphone under your pillow listening to the Encyclopedia Britannica.

Okay, interesting. Cool.

When you do questionnaires the next day, when you do a study or ask questions the next day based on the information you give them, they won't remember the specific details, but they will remember the concepts. And they can answer conceptual questions about the information they receive, but not the detail. This is what happens in childhood. That's why most of us can't remember much beyond about age 5, because as you said, we are mostly in theta. So we're receiving all this information. We're learning, we're reacting, we're growing mentally, cognitively, psychologically, emotionally, but at the same time, we have a hard time remembering the detail of what happened to us.

Okay, interesting.

So once you get to about age 7 or 8, then you start to flip over into more and more and more beta when you're alert and awake.

Okay.

And less and less theta.

Okay, got it, got it. So we've got program one, which would basically be that, that 10 hertz frequency that would be useful for the alpha brainwave zone. We've got program two, which fluctuates between 10 and 100 Hertz for muscle healing. Program three, which is 3 Hertz for the delta frequency. Program four, 7.8 Hertz for the Schumann resonance or for learning acquisition or for theta. And then what is program five?

I'm sorry, let me back up and make one more point about program four. Theta is also used for meditation. Most people who do a lot of, who do a lot of meditation go into theta. New meditators, novice meditators. People though, don't meditate very often are more likely to be in alpha, low alpha than they are in theta. But really good people who do a lot of meditation usually dip into theta.

Got it. So this would be something else. I could, for example, have and doesn't have to be touching my body, right. It could just be near my body while I am meditating or while I am, you know, if I were doing like a transcendental session or something like that, I could just literally have it.

Near my body somewhere, preferably as close to your body as possible.

Okay. Okay, got it, got it. All right, so how about program five? What's this one do?

So program five is 23 hertz, 23 hertz is beta. So beta is anywhere between 13 hertz and probably around 50 or 60 hertz. So in Europe, program three was designed, 23 hertz was designed to be harmonic with electrosmog, which is primarily around 50 hertz in Europe. So we chose it for that reason because of the electrosmog balancing effect or counteracting effect. But the primary value of the 23 Hz is that it's beta. So beta is alert consciousness. Right now you are in beta, I'm in beta. Most of the people who are listening are going to be in beta if they're actively listening, if they're actively learning. So beta is alertness. Okay, so this is a program that you're using if you want to do a paper, if you're studying, if you want to do some long distance driving and you got to stay awake, then that's a good program to use. It's a good program to use. Program one and program five are good programs to use for people who are really depressed or really slowed down by, say, pain that's causing them to be just dopey.

Now, I would imagine if you tend to be anxious or irritable or even like before bedtime, you probably wouldn't want to use this frequency.

You should not. I don't recommend it. Although I know people who do fall asleep, even with program five. But still, yes, my general recommendation is you don't want to wake the brain up. You want to slow the brain down.

Now, if you were getting ready for athletic performance or for a workout, would you rather go with this or would you rather go with something more alpha brainwave related?

That's going to be a matter of trial and error. So every physiology is going to react differently. So some people need to really focus. Like, for example, if you're shooting a rifle or arrows, then you might want to use beta.

I do a lot of shooting, so this would be something I could use before my bow shooting sessions.

So you could do that. Otherwise. Yes, Program one would actually be very good. Alpha allows you to relax and be more focused without having the brain be as distracted.

Okay, got it, got it. Interesting. Okay, so this one would be basically beta stimulation. And what's the Hertz frequency again for beta stimulation?

20. This one happens to be 23 Hertz.

23 Hertz. Okay. All right, cool. Now, before we move on to the next program, I did have another kind of question for you, just based on pemf in general. Is it true that you can target specific cells or organs with specific frequencies? Like, we've been talking about body effects, but what about, let's say, you know, I'm just gonna throw this, this highly medical term out there, a sluggish liver, right? Like some people, you know, they don't produce enough gallbladder bile, or they tend to need a liver detoxification. Or some people need more, let's say, peristalsis in the gut because they are constipated. Or some people might, for example, want to target cardiovascular tissue, for example. Is there any evidence that certain PMF frequencies can literally affect different cells and different organs?

That's really a really important and good question. So the most important aspect of answering that question is, what's the target? In other words, what are you trying to accomplish?

Every cell in the body has 2000 biochemical processes happening every second. 100 trillion cells have 2000 chemical processes happening every second. Every one of those chemical processes has minerals and other metabolites that are constantly in motion. Every metabolite, in a sense, has its own frequency. So what I found, and as I review the literature, the magnetic field literature, and specifically in treating specific tissues or specific conditions, it's all over the place. And there is no such thing as a map of every tissue, every molecule, and the magnetic fields that are the best for it. For example, there's a concept called ion cyclotron resonance. And some magnetic therapy devices have been developed and are FDA approved for healing bone using that concept. But they found that for stimulating calcium ions, there are at least five or six frequencies that do that. And there may well be more because the research is limited in how many comparisons can be made. And then on top of that, you know, engineering a device from one engineering department or facility to another one will produce a different result. Because if it's not produced exactly the same, using the same minerals, using the same base components, then you're going to have a different machine fundamentally. So making comparisons across machines and frequencies and tissues becomes almost impossible. Okay, anybody. Anybody who makes a claim that you use this frequency for this organ, and that's the only thing you ever need to do it, hasn't read the science.

Sounds to me like if the geomagnetic fields and environmental fields generate, based off what you've just said, not just one frequency, but a whole host of natural frequencies, that one of the best things someone could do would be to spend a lot of time outside hiking, climbing up trees, hanging out on rocks, you know, walking barefoot on a variety of different surfaces and getting exposed to as many different frequencies as possible.

Absolutely. And this is where the concept of if you don't use it, you lose it.

Comes in. People who lay in bed all day long. Atrophy.

Yeah. Or even just people who sit in an office all day long without ever getting outside. Sometimes it's when I ask people, when was the last time you actually were barefoot on the planet? Many people don't even remember, especially people who don't live on coastal areas or areas on the beach where you might be walking around with your shoes off. For me, out in Spokane, Washington, in the winter, I have to make it a point, and I do make it a point. One of the things I try to do every day is touch the earth, which can be kind of uncomfortable when it's snowing outside. But at the same time, like, I think it's a. It's a great goal to go through every single day trying to get in touch with, you know, a tree or a rock. As woo, woo and hippie as that sounds, you know, there. There actually is probably a frequency effect that you're getting as well, or a.

Combination or a combination of Frequencies.

Yeah, exactly. Combination of frequencies. Exactly. Which. Which is what I was getting at. You know, why expose yourself to as many different frequencies as possible if they're native frequencies, ideally. And there's a good movie about this, by the way. I think it's called the grounding effect or the earthing effect, where they go into this specific city. I think it was up in Alaska or something like that, where there are a whole bunch of people that were sick and that were injured, and one of the first things they started doing was just getting people to sleep outside and walk outside. And I believe there's some anecdotes there about burying yourself in the dirt or the sand for therapy. I'll try and hunt it down and link to it in the show notes for folks. But yeah, there's definitely something to be said for getting outdoors too. You don't just have to purchase fancy biohacking devices. Now, what about. Speaking of fancy biohacking devices, program six on this thing, from what I understand, that thing's just like an enormously high frequency. Is that correct?

So that was designed into the machine because of a study done in Boston, one of the Harvard University hospitals. They discovered when they were doing magnetic studies on the brain that people with depression all of a sudden felt better. And this is not really an mri, but it is magnetic resonance. And as a result of that experience, they designed a device to treat what they called acute depression. When you have depression and you get put on medication for depression, it can take anywhere between two to six weeks for the depression to be improved by the medication, if it even works. What happens, though, is that during that six weeks, you're very vulnerable to suicide. So they did this study with this particular system, which was 1000 Hz, and discovered that there was a 1000 Hz. 1000 Hz seemed to help acute depression. So a new onset depression, not a depression that's sort of been there for a long time or that has undergone all kinds of medical therapies which didn't work. So this is really for somebody who acutely became depressed. So you could consider or conceive that it could be helpful for people who are going through grief, somebody who just lost somebody recently, that it could be very helpful for grief.

What about for that? Again, kind of a rab hole. What about for pets? Like, one of my dogs just died, and the other dog, Comet, he seems kind of sad and kind of down. I'm curious if there's been any research on PMF in pets, like if I could, you know, hang the hang the flex pulse at 100 or 1000 Hz frequency around his neck for a little while.

So what you could do is to actually experiment a little bit and try different frequencies. 1000 Hz could be the right frequency for the dog, but also 10 hertz may actually be better, or 7 hertz may actually be better. Again, depression is probably more likely to respond better to 23Hz program 5.

I thought you just said 1000Hz was better for depression.

Well, I said for that particular study, they showed that 1000 Hz was effective for acute depression in that particular study.

Okay.

So you have to sort of understand how people were chosen for the study and, you know, and so on. So how it might affect individuals. The most important thing about PEMFs in my mind is use it and see what works best for you.

It's very hard to go wrong, except for the rules we just discussed. You're probably not a good idea to use program five at night. It's probably not a good idea to be using program three when you're driving.

Yeah, yeah, good points. We don't want all of our tractor drivers and semi truck drivers listening in to fall asleep on the road or to overstimulate themselves. That could also be dangerous.

Yeah, you don't want them to be in theta, right?

Exactly. Exactly. No semi truck driver should be in theta. So how about when we're talking about pemf, and I guess what you'd say would be, like, conjunctive therapies or things that could be done hand in hand. We talked about minerals. For example, the body has magnetite in it. But what about anything else from a supplementation standpoint, whether it be magnesium to assist with cellular activity or electrolytes to enhance the ability of the cells to maintain their normal electrochemical gradient? I mean, are there certain things that you like from a supplementation standpoint that could enhance the effects of PEMF?

Well, most of the effects of PEMF, probably a large percentage of the effects of PEMFs work through calcium, the calcium channels inside the cell. And calcium rides along with magnesium. And you have to have the right balance between calcium and magnesium. People usually have enough calcium, but many people often don't have enough magnesium. So if there's a supplement that could be added and be very helpful, it would be magnesium.

Now, what about. Would there be any effect, like I just described earlier, of actually using, like, a topical magnesium and placing the PEMF device over the topical magnesium to, like, drive it more deeply into the tissue?

That applies to that concept Is an excellent concept. And that applies to virtually anything you want to have absorbed into the body. Okay, so whether it's a cream, including a steroid cream, it could be msm, it could be almost any nutrient. It could be the oil.

Okay, interesting.

Because magnetic therapy increases circulation in the tissues that you're stimulating. When you increase circulation, you increase cell permeability, and that means you do get better access of nutrients into the tissues. Magnetic field therapy has also been discovered to actually stimulate collagen production.

Interesting. So you're saying that you could use something like this, for example, in areas of. Of cellulite or scar tissue?

Yes, scar tissue, especially cellulite, is different because it's. What is it? It's primarily fat.

And water that's kind of localized in certain parts of the body.

Generally. Generally poor areas of collagen formation too, because you tend to have weak areas of skin in the areas of cellulite.

So all of those factors then become impacted by the PEMFs. And again, that will vary. What, the results will vary based on the person and how far they have to go to. To get back into balance.

Okay, got it.

Probably the most important thing that you can do to improve the ability of this. See, the goal of PEMFs is to increase charge. In tissue, charge is energy. PEMFs increase ATP in the cell. But more as important as increasing ATP, which a lot of therapies don't do, they increase ATP, but they don't what we call hydrolyze the ATP. They don't turn the ATP into energy. ATP by itself is not energy. It's a source of energy. If you don't have enough ATP, you can't produce enough energy. But even if you have enough ATP, you have to convert it to energy. And PEMFs do that because they activate the enzymes that break down the ATP into energy. And PEMFs also help the enzymes that rebuild the ATP from ADP back into ATP. So it recycles your ATP constantly, which is why muscles work better, longer and harder with magnetic field therapy.

And any frequency can do that.

Virtually any.

Very cool. I was not aware of that. That's really interesting. So ATP regeneration is something that can actually occur when you're exposing the body to these biomagnetic fields.

So hydration is one of the most important things you could do because hydration then determines the amount of charge you can produce.

Yeah, hydrating with like good mineral rich water. Like, like, you know, I use. Not only do I structure my water, but I add lots of electrolytes and minerals. To it. So that, that goes hand in hand.

With, with PEMF and PEMFs, as you said, restructure water.

I like it. It's all about getting back to nature, right? And so get outside, get out in the sunshine, get exposed to infrared rays from the sun, drink some good water while you're out there, touch the planet. But if you're wanting to biohack things, too, use like a PEMF device and drink structured water and ensure that you're staying grounded even when you're living like a modern lifestyle. So you're trying. Basically all we're doing is we're trying to tap into ancestor wisdom by using some of this modern science, and it's.

Doing it in a stronger fashion than you can normally get.

Now, what about complementary things, therapies? Like, are there any other therapies that you as a physician like to use in conjunction with PEMF to enhance the results?

Well, my own journey with magnetic field therapy started off with acupuncture. As a, as a physician, this doctor, I had a number of patients who had severe reactions to ibuprofen. They almost died from it. And I said, this is crazy medicine. So I said, I got to do something different. And I learned acupuncture at the UCS UCLA School for Physicians for Professionals. And after I learned acupuncture, I realized that at that time in 1990, it's very hard to get people then to do acupuncture. So I found out about magnets at that time, and that's when I started using magnetics. But I discovered as I was using the magnetics is the magnetics actually does acupuncture without putting needles into the body.

What do you mean?

But then. Well, the acupuncture meridian system and acupuncture points are actually electrical points. They're electrically active points. The meridian system, the acupuncture meridian system is a DC current system. It's electrical current dc. And anytime you have a current and you have a magnetic field, they interact with. So magnetic fields, PEMFs amplify and activate and energize and increase the flow of qi in the acupuncture meridians. So you're doing magnetic, you're doing acupuncture.

Every time you're doing this is acupuncture without needles. Now, do you need to actually target on specific meridians? Meaning, you know, when you go to an acupuncturist, they're actually, they're placing those needles across specific meridians. And even, you know, I actually, now that now that you're saying this, this is sounding familiar because I interviewed again those same folks who make that device that I use on airplanes. Sometimes it comes with like a body scanner that scans the areas of your body that it would be best to put that device up against for this, this kind of acupuncture without needles. Do you, do you have a way of deciding which meridians or which areas you're going to place something like the flex pulse over to get this acupuncture effect?

The meridian System is a 24 hour system. Any place on the body. Like right now, you have the coil on your butt. The magnetic field from that coil is large. It's about the size of a beach ball.

So even though you have the coil in one specific area, which is probably about an inch and a half wide square, the magnetic field is a beach ball.

So I'm hitting a lot more areas than just my upper hamstring.

Just a specific area you're targeting? Correct. That means you're hitting all the meridians in that area at the same time. So you don't have to kind of worry about this point or that point. If you're doing magnetic therapy regularly, you're essentially stimulating the entire meridian system constantly. And if you're using a whole body magnetic system, then you really, truly are stimulating all of the meridians.

What's a whole body magnetic system?

The one that I recommend is called the biobalance.

Is that also on your website along with the flexpolts?

Correct.

Okay, cool. And by the way, for those of you listening in, in just a minute, I'll give you a cool discount code that you can use on the flexpolts. So the bio balance, I see that on your website, it's like a, like a $2,500 device. And this thing, oh, it's like a mat that you lay down on.

It's got a pillow applicator, a smaller applicator, and a whole body pad.

So that's how you would do like whole body acupuncture without needles.

That's correct. That's correct. This device was designed to Compete with other $5,000, $6,000, $7,000 whole body systems like, which are actually weak. Weaker than this one. Do you want me to name names?

Yeah, I don't care.

All right. Beamer, imrs, qrs. Those are just like the three major, the ones that are out there in a big way.

So those things are like $5,000 and this one does the same thing at half the cost.

At a third the cost.

Oh, wow, Cool.

It's actually, it's actually five to 10 times stronger.

I like it.

And it has other things up. It has other utilities that the others don't as well. You could run it all night long. It has a sleep setting like we do with the flex pulse.

Cool. Very interesting. And it's safe to use.

I use it all night long myself.

To like lay down on. All night long.

Okay, Absolutely.

Interesting. Have you had, is there any research, by the way, on the, on the safety of laying on a PEMF device all night long?

Not directly. There have been studies done with apes that have been exposed to magnetic fields. Relatively low intensity, but higher intensity than the BioBalance for 24 hours a day for weeks without any side effects. There are safety studies with extremely high intensity magnetic fields had tens of thousands of pulses with Tesla level fields to the brain for days on end with no problems.

Interesting.

Electromagnetic field therapies are extraordinarily safe.

Yeah, well, if we're talking about the same therapies that are produced in the environment, you know, and people camp outside all night long, I would imagine that this, this would not be an issue. But you know, for me.

But these are stronger.

Yeah, I always test my sleep cycles. These ones that you get when you're laying on the bio balance are stronger.

Yes.

Oh, you mean it's producing like the thousand hertz frequencies?

That one. Yes, that one does have a thousand hertz.

But couldn't you just use it at the lower frequency levels if you wanted to play it?

Oh, yeah, yeah. Like there's a sleep program, there's a recovery program. Like the recovery program is like 10 hertz.

Got it. Okay, interesting.

But it's stronger than the earth's magnetic field.

Okay, okay.

The earth's magnetic field is about half a gauss.

Is there a way to measure whether or not something like this or non native EMF is indeed creating cellular damage? Is there a test that you can take or would you just measure inflammation or something like that?

There really is no easy test for that. And a lot of it actually again, depends on the target you're measuring. Are you measuring calcium flows? Are you measuring inflammation? Are you measuring circulation? What exactly are you measuring? But most of the research has been done with these things shows virtually no side effects. The FDA considers magnetic therapy devices, wellness devices, for the most part.

Okay, okay, got it.

That's why they don't. That's why most of them don't have FDA approval.

Okay. All right. So if people want to, want to see what this flexpulse actually looks like, What I'll do is I'll link over to Dr. Pollack's website in the show notes. You can also see this video bio balance device, which I find intriguing. I might have to try that one out. There's a discount code we've got for the FlexPulse, which is greenfield. I know that's a $200 discount code. Do you know if that would work on the BioBalance too, Dr. Pollock? Or do you think we could make that code work on the biobalance if people wanted to get that too, instead of the flexpolts?

Yeah, that program has not been designed for the biobalance. So I imagine if people. Hold on and we can let you know. Okay, you can let your listeners know when. When something becomes available. It may not be as. As good a discount as the flex pulse.

Okay. All right, got it.

Well, for now, we'll let you know.

Okay, for now, you guys, you can at least get a $200 discount on the flex pulse. And the code that you use on Dr. Pollock's website is greenfield. And I'll put all that in the show notes. Also link to some of these studies that we talked about, as well as any other studies that Dr. Pollack sends me. And I'll put all Those up@bengreenfieldfitness.com Pawlik P A W L U K so this has been very interesting. We've learned about the myths about grounding and acupuncture without needles and how to increase your stem cells and a whole bunch more. Very, very cool stuff. Dr. Pollock, thanks for coming on the show and sharing all this stuff with us, man.

It's my pleasure. I love talking about it, as you can see.

Yeah, yeah. As I can hear. Well, cool. And I'll just keep this thing running on my booty all day long. Sounds like if it helped your wife out with her broken bones, maybe it'll help me out with my hammy. And in the meantime, as you listen in BenGreenfieldFitness.com Pawlik is where you can get the shownotes. That's BenGreenfieldFitness.com P A W L U K. Until next time, I'm Ben Greenfield along with Dr. William Pollock signing out from BenGreenfieldFitness.com have an amazing week.

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