How to Build Real Connections (Even If You Struggle With People) | Jennifer K. Hill

I just hated myself. I was bulimic, I was suicidal, tried to take my own life. Sex, drugs, rock and roll, you name it, I did it. If I didn't learn people and learn myself, I wasn't gonna make it. J Hill, you are only the most condescending, demeaning bitch we've ever met in our lives. We have no idea how you're successful. And that was my moment of like, one thing she does well a day for a week. So the first day, I kid you not, I write down, she's human. Day 2, she breathes. By day 3, she actually started to improve quite vastly.

By day 7, Welcome to the Swedish Wealth Institute Podcast. I am your host, Daniel Wood. As a leader, we want to build stronger relationships, create deeper trust, and, you know, become the kind of person that people genuinely want to work with. The truth is, most people don't fail in leadership because they're, they're not smart enough, or they don't have a good strategy, or they're not ambitious enough. They fail because they don't connect with their team. So if you feel like that's happening to you, this episode is going to be absolutely amazing because I'm sitting down with Jennifer Hill. She is one of the best connectors in the world that I've ever met. She will show you how she went from what she calls her asshole era to becoming one of the most connected people. In the world. Why self-mastery, self-awareness, nervous system regulation, and inner work are critical for leadership, and how to use tools like Human Design, heart-focused breathing, and the Plus 2 Method to help understand people, build trust, and create stronger connections. This episode was huge for me as a leader, and I think it can be for you. So I look forward to it.

Thank you.

To sharing this episode with you. Let's get into it. When did you realize that connection, not skill, was really the key for leadership?

After I spent the first 20-some-odd years of my life as an asshole, Daniel, quite honestly. People say, how did you crack the code of human connection? And truly, Daniel, it was out of survival. If I didn't learn people and learn myself, I wasn't going to make it. I— you and I were talking a little bit before we went live. There was a period of what I call my asshole era of when I was about 16 to in my 20s, where I just hated myself. I was bulimic, I was suicidal, tried to take my own life, sex, drugs, rock and roll, you name it, I did it. And more than anything, I just hated myself. And I took out that anger and that self-hatred on anybody who came into my life. And out of that, I had a series of broken relationships, misunderstandings, heartache, There was a period where I didn't talk to my dad for a few years and many of my friends broke up with me. One of my best friends who actually just called me right before we jumped on here, she had to break up with me twice because of what a jerk I was. I lied to her one time. And so then midway through in my 20s, I had an aha moment where a woman actually called me out on being an asshole in a personal development class. In fact, in her exact words, it was, you are a nasty thing. You are one of the most powerful women I've ever met in my life, except you know what? You're like Godzilla walking through a city with a huge tail swinging behind you, knocking down buildings wherever you go. Except you know what? Those aren't buildings. Those are people whose lives you're destroying. And that was really my catalytic wake-up call moment to realize, oh shit, I'm not the person I thought I was. Despite all this, I didn't even realize what a jerk I was. I was sitting there in a personal development class, judgy, being what I call a judgy bunny. I was judging everybody else. And lo and behold, here it was. It was just, I hated myself. And so that was the moment that was, whoa, I have a choice in how I get to show up in the world. And it's been 20 years of deep spiritual work studies. I spend 2 hours a day in prayer, meditation, and reflection. And now I have this sixth sense and gift. And most people have told me that the connections I've provided them have literally changed their lives.

What's interesting there too is you became successful as an asshole.

I was remotely successful. I think I was making maybe $100,000 a year when I was 23. And I was, so I was like the first job I ever really out of college. I left high school early because I was also a dick during high school and I really didn't like being around other people. My brain worked differently and yet I didn't know I was autistic till about 8 years ago. And so I left high school at 16, went straight to college. After I graduated college, I wound up calling the guy who hired me in my first really successful job and I cold called him. I said, this is Jennifer Hill, you're going to hire me and I'll be the best damn thing that's ever happened to you and I'll break every company record you ever have. So I was all piss and vinegar and the guy hired me and it was at that company that I was working at already relatively successful that I figured I was an asshole. And when that woman said that to me, I went into my office the next day and I said, guys, I have a question for you. Was I maybe ever condescending, demeaning, or rude to any of you in the time we've worked together? And Daniel, the office went so quiet, you could hear a pin drop. And then this one woman burst out laughing and said, J Hill, you are only the most condescending, demeaning bitch we've ever met in our lives. We have no idea how you're successful. And that was my moment of like, oh, I have a choice now. Every day I get to choose to be an asshole or something else.

Right. And so, so what did you see as the difference when you decided to change? How did that change your life? Like what was asshole version and post-asshole?

Well, so asshole version was stole $2,000, my mom's car, flew to Hawaii, lived in Hawaii under a fake name. That's the opening story of the Recovering Asshole book coming out later this year. Later in my life, I still, even after that moment, even after that woman said I was an asshole, I still thought people were just being obstinate, stubborn jerks. Like I once, a few years after that incident, I sent an all-caps email to my team when I was building my own company. Are you all a bunch of fucking morons? Why are you not working harder, faster, smarter? All in caps, all in the subject line. And it was around that time I hired my first business coach who really radically changed my life. He's like, Jen, how about we soften the language on your future emails and how about I help you proofread all of them? Right? And so Julian taught me that everybody else, I just thought everybody else was as quick as I was and that they were just being lazy and idiots. And then when Julian said, Jen, you were designed differently, they're designed differently. And that's how I've now accumulated 180 tools to better understand myself and others to develop compassion. And that's what I do with others. I work with executives, high net worths, I run a community of 320 entrepreneurs, thought leaders, billionaires, people around the world. And my goal is to reflect back and see the spark of light in everybody I meet. And even the people who are going through the hardest times, there's a great quote by this from Neale Donald Walsch that says, let this be your greatest joy. Let this be your greatest task to give people back to themselves, even in their darkest hour, especially in that hour. And I feel like that's my purpose is to listen for the spark of light in every human I meet and reflect it back to them when they've forgotten.

Give us a couple examples of these 180 tools. Like, how do you, how do you read people using these?

It's a whole multitude. I recently published them on social. So if you follow me on LinkedIn or on Facebook, I'll actually be sure to pin it.

We'll link to that in the show notes so everyone can find it.

Exactly. So some of my favorite tools, I love Human Design. Are you familiar with that one at all?

Yes, but for our listeners, let's walk them through it.

Okay, so I'll give you a great example. In Human Design, there are 5 types of designs, and this is an amalgamation of things like the I Ching, Chinese medicine, Ayurveda, Kabbalah, astrology. It's basically amalgamated all of this into a systematic formula to understand people. So Julian, my prior business coach, helped me understand this. He did my design, and when we did my design, I'm one of the 5 types. So there are 2 types, that make up 70% of the world called generators and manifesting generators. And what defines them as such is they have their sacral area defined, and that just means they're like an Energizer Bunny. So if you've ever seen those ads from back in the day, it means they can go, go, go and just have unlimited energy that they have to deplete throughout the day. My type is called a projector. That's 20% of the population. By the way, you can find out for free. I'm not an affiliate of them, but you can go to freehumandesignchart.com, or there's an app that you can pay for called Align that I love that I work with on all my clients. And so my type is called a projector. That's 20% of the world. Obama, for example, was a very famous projector. Projectors are meant to be leaders. We're meant to guide people's energy around things. And so what was funny was, so 20% is projectors. I'll close this out before I get to the story. Then 10% of the world is a type called a manifester. You'll know you've met a manifester because they tell you what to do. They're like the generals. They just dictate. And it's funny, in one of the books I read about this called Understanding Your Clients Through Human Design by Robin Wynn, she says manifestors almost can have a repelling aura if they haven't done work on themselves because it's a very thwarting, thrusting sort of energy.

It's my way or the highway.

Exactly. When they haven't done the personal work. And then 1% of the population, which is very, very rare, and I know a disproportionate amount of people of these types, I don't know how, but 1% has nothing defined and they just channel. They're some of the best intuitives in the world. I did meet one, one time who was an attorney and I'm like, You're an attorney. That's pretty incredible that you're able to be an attorney and be this type because they tend to be radically intuitive and just reflect the world around them. So I'll take it back to my type. I'm 20% of this population called a projector. I'm building my first company. Julian comes in and starts teaching me about this and says, Jen, we should really look at your team and how they're defined. Now in a cohesive team, it's great to have one of each. So in my teams, I would often, before I even knew about this, We would have a projector, a couple generators, a manifesting generator, a manifester, although we didn't often have reflectors who worked for us, 'cause again, that was a little bit 1%, very rare. So here we are one day and there's a woman I'm working with and I am about to fire her. And 2 things happened that were radically incredible and shifted how this whole story turned out. One, Julian did her Human Design chart. It turned out she was my type of projector and I was treating her like that other 70%, that worker bee type, and she's not designed for that. So she wasn't returning emails on time. She wasn't getting back to people, phone calls. I had all these complaints. So the first thing Julian said is, Jen, you have her in the wrong role. She's a projector. She should be the middle manager between you and the team, but you do not have her as a worker bee. She'll fail. So he tells me this, but I'm still pretty pissed off because she's been failing up till this point, right?

Yeah.

So he says, Jen, I'm going to teach you a couple of things. He was an expert in neurolinguistic programming and neuroscience. So Jules said, Jen, every second of every day, we have 11 million bits of information hitting us at a subconscious level per second. But do I know how many of those we pay attention to consciously? Any guesses, Daniel?

I mean, we're talking 0.01%.

Even less than that. Of 11 million bits per second, Daniel, we're only at a conscious level paying attention to 50 to 120 bits per second consciously. And it's crazy. Like, if you get into psychedelics, there's actually— there was a great book by Dan Brown that just came out called Secret of Secrets, where they get into how our brain has— I think it's like gamma or GABA or something that helps inhibit the world around us. We don't go crazy with all the stimuli. So— Right.

So that's what a GABA inhibitor will then—

Exactly. So then you see more of reality, et cetera. That's where you get into psychedelics. So Let's backtrack for a moment. So Julian teaches me this. I was like, whoa, wait a second, Jules, hold on one moment. Sorry about that. I had a tickle in my throat. So here we were and Julian tells me all of this. And so I said, Julian, it's kind of like you're in an infinitely large pitch-black warehouse and you can't see your hands in front of your face. And all you really have is this little miner's helmet with an itty-bitty little light and whatever this light points at, which is those 50 to 120 bits of conscious attention we're putting on things. is what we're going to see. And Julian's like, Jen, that's it. So here I am, I'm still pretty frustrated with this woman. We now know her Human Design is the same as mine and that she's not in the role she's meant to be in. And he says, Jen, before you put her on a performance improvement plan or before you fire her, I want you to write down one thing she does well a day for a week. And I'm like, I still was pretty— I was still in the middle of my asshole period. I was still very early on in this. So I was still pretty skeptical about this. I was like, Fine, fine. I'll try this. So the first day, I kid you not, I write down, she's human. Day 2, she breathes. Day 3. So I'm writing all this down without telling her. By day 3, she actually started to improve quite vastly. By day 7, Daniel, she was extraordinary. Now here's what happened. Not only did I not fire her, she went on to be one of our most successful team members. And when I sold the company in 2018, she took it over from me and allowed me to exit the company 3 years early so I could move to Europe. And that's all because I didn't fire her because of these wonderful And because you found that she's actually a superstar. In the wrong role.

Yeah. You were trying to shove a round peg into a square hole and it just wouldn't work.

Yeah, exactly. Manifestors, get them in sales roles, but they do not take direction as well. You have to give them a lot of autonomy. So when you start to understand this, it goes back to that famous book, Good to Great. It was one of the earliest business—

Oh, I love that one by Jim Collins.

Exactly. Such a good book, right? It was one of the earliest business books I ever read. And Jim talks talks about getting the right people on the bus. So, I want you to look at your team right now. If you're somebody who's managing a team or you work with other people and ask yourself, do I like the people I'm on the bus with? Because if you do and they might not be performing, then perhaps it could be something as simple as just shifting the role that they're in.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So, tell us more about the techniques you use for yourself to connect with people? When, like, for someone that, when that doesn't maybe come naturally for you, how do, how, how are you compensating?

So one of my favorite techniques that's been studied scientifically for over 40 years is a technique by HeartMath called heart-focused breathing. Have you ever heard of it before, Daniel?

Yeah. Marci Shimoff talked about that on an earlier episode when I interviewed her.

I love it. Yeah. So I've been very privileged to get to do work. I co-produced a show with the HeartMath team called the Global Coherence Pulse the 3rd Saturday of every month. It's free if people want to attend. And we have experts and leaders who come on and teach these methods. So essentially, I'm not sure what Marcie covered, but I'll give you a quick recap.

Yeah.

The reason so many of us fail to develop intimacy with ourselves or one another is we're in fight, freeze, or flight 24/7. Now, years ago, we have this part of our brain called the amygdala. When we were being chased by tigers and trying to forage for food and survive, it was a very valuable part of our brain that would turn on and go, Danger, there's a tiger, danger, we have no food, whatever it is. But the problem is with social media, with media, with life now, that amygdala is activated 24/7 unless we proactively turn it off. In fact, our higher parts of our brain, our mammalian part of our brain and our prefrontal cortex, our capacity for love, connection, and imagination cannot function, Daniel, until the lower part of the brain feels safe. So this is why when you meet somebody new, you're not thinking about developing intimacy. You're going like, do they like me? Oh God, do I have stuff in my teeth? Am I wearing the right thing? Did I say the right thing? Oh God, they're not gonna like me. Oh shoot, I said the wrong thing again, right? That's all your amygdala acting like it's been chased by tigers. So here's a simple technique. I'm gonna take you through it. You can do it with your eyes open or closed. When I work with leaders on this, I encourage people, if you are in a place where you can shut your eyes to do it, but if you're driving or if you're listening to this while walking your dog, you can also do it with your eyes open. Are you ready? Right.

If you are driving, please stop the car and then do this. We don't want anyone crashing.

It is very safe as long as you keep your eyes open. So you can do this with eyes open or closed. It's actually really good to regulate if you're getting road rage and your eyes are open, you can do it with your eyes open. For those of you who are in a place who can stop and just listen, then I would encourage you the first time you try it to shut your eyes. So are you ready to do this, Daniel?

I'm ready. I'm in. I'll be your, your testing bunny here.

All right. So let's first check in then, just so we can help the audience with this too. On a scale of 0 to 5, where are you at today? 5 meaning you're like, oh, I feel like a billion dollars. I'm amazing. I'm feeling great. 0 is like the kids were screaming all night. I'm depleted. I have nothing to give you, Jen. Let's just talk for a second. Where are you at emotionally right now? Not good or bad, just kind of an observation.

Let's call me a 3 today.

Okay. You're a 3. Again, no judgment. I invite those of you listening and watching to kind of reflect internally for yourself. I would say I'm at about a 3 myself today. So I'm going to give myself about a 3 as well. And I checked in and that feels about right. So just notice where you're at. And now if you are in a place that you can shut your eyes, feel free to do so. Or if you're driving or walking, feel free to keep your eyes open. Begin to focus your attention in the area of your heart or chest. Imagine that your breath is flowing in and out right through the center of your heart or chest. Breathing a little slower and a little deeper than usual, finding an easy rhythm that's comfortable for you. As you continue allowing slow, deep, heart-focused breaths, I invite you to play with the rhythm of your breath and see if you can breathe in to the count of five, four, three, two, one, and breathe out one. 2, 3, 4, 5. Now, as you continue to find your own rhythm, imagine your heart itself is doing the breathing. Imagine the breath is flowing in through the center of your heart or chest area and out through the center of your heart or chest area. On the next inhalation, I invite you to breathe in the feeling of calm. Imagine a time where you felt calm. Maybe you were laying in bed relaxed or sitting by the seaside or your favorite lake or river or forest. Whatever that time is where you felt that sense of calm, I invite you to breathe in that feeling of calm right through the center of your heart or chest, and then breathe out and send that calm to somebody else who might need it. Maybe you have a loved one or a pet or a friend or a colleague who needs it as well. So let's do that a few more times. Allowing another slow, deep heart-focused breath in through the center of your heart or chest, feeling that felt sense of calm light up every cell of your body, and once more radiate and pulse that calm to everything and everyone around you. Let's do this one more time together, allowing one more slow, deep heart-focused breath, feeling that calm as a felt sense in your body. And one last time, let's radiate that calm to everyone and everything. As you come back into this moment, if your eyes were shut, you can gently begin to open them and wiggle your fingers and toes and feel your feet upon the floor. And then just notice where your internal space is. Daniel, do you notice a difference? You started at 3. Did it go up or down?

Yeah, I think I, I feel a lot more calm, a lot more centered. That was really nice. We could have kept going.

My clients always say that to me. It's amazing. I would say I went up to about a 4 and you'll notice this. So one of the things we teach is that when you do this in the same way, we need to recharge our phone. Imagine you used your phone all day and you didn't recharge it. It would be dead, right? The same is true of our bodies. Every time we go through something that upsets us, a triggering email, an issue with the kids at school, the dog is sick, whatever it is, That activates and triggers the amygdala part of the brain. If we don't reregulate our nervous system using heart-focused breathing, vagal nerve breathing, box breathing, take your pick, whichever one you choose, I just happen to prefer heart-focused breathing by HeartMath, then you're going to be carrying that with you all day. And then you're in a state of what's called incoherence. And that right there, Daniel, is what inhibits human connection. The reason so many of us fail to connect to others Is number one, we're in constantly the state of fight, fright, flight, or freeze. Number two, we also are missing connection to ourselves. So as much as I spent decades in broken relationships and misunderstandings and pain and suffering for myself and others, the other big secret is when you learn to love and accept yourself, and I know it sounds cliché, and there are actual tools that I teach people to use to do this, then you become the most radiant, sexiest, desirable person that everybody wants to be friends with, do business with, date have in their lives because you're already whole, complete, and perfect. Most of us, Daniel, spend our whole lives. I don't care if you're worth billions of dollars, if you have millions of followers, tens of millions of followers, I don't care who you are. So many people are looking for something or someone to fill them up. That's why we go to drugs, to alcohol, to validation, to the likes on social media, to the news. We're looking for anything to feel that aching. pain, that loneliness within us. But what most people don't know, and I call this the golden triangle of connection, is if we don't have that connection to ourselves, which quieting the brain, the amygdala helps with that. If we don't first connect to ourselves, then we won't be able to connect to others or our purpose, and it all falls down like a house of cards. However, when we create that deep intimacy with ourselves and we stop trying to take energy from the people we're dating, our spouses, our children, our friends, our business colleagues, and you up whole and clean and clear to every meeting, you become free. It's true liberation. Wow. Yeah.

Then what's interesting to me about you is going from having all this trouble connecting with people, you are now probably the most connected person I've ever met. And that's basically what you do. Like, I jump on a call with you and all of a sudden I'm connected to another 10 absolutely amazing people. And it's like, I'm afraid to jump on a call and super excited because it's like, oh my I got all these amazing people. Like, how am I going to handle all these new relationships? So how do you go from not being able to connect at all to like knowing all these exciting people and being the center, you know, the spider of the spider web of connecting?

You know, it takes work. It's every single day. It's, we get to choose who we want to be in the world. And so that's why I am unyielding and uncompromising of my 2-hour practice every day. I've cultivated it over 13 years. It started off years ago, Transcendental Meditation. was really cataclysmic for me in learning how to quiet my mind. I remember the first time I love massages. I get a massage once a week. That's also something that helps support my regulatory system. But I remember the first masseuse I ever worked with, Natalia, and I'm sitting at her house and she says, okay, Jen, I want you to meditate for 30 seconds before the massage. It'll make it more effective. I was like, are you crazy? Have you been inside my head? I was like, that's impossible. And then 13 years ago, I got introduced to Transcendental Meditation. And of all the types, I use that as one of the types of meditation I do every morning. That's how I start. But that combined with Kabbalah has really been the secret to happiness. I mean, one of my teachers, David Guillaume, has exploded. He is one of the most famous thought leaders in the world right now on spirituality. And I had the privilege and honor of studying under him for quite a few years in LA when I was with him. He taught me how to mentor people and how to learn. And one of the things he taught me was the rules for the game of life. It's kind of like, Daniel, When we go to play a video game, say Super Mario Brothers, or we go to play a board game like Monopoly, you cannot win at a game, Daniel, if you don't know the rules to the game. Did anybody give you the rule book on how to win at life? Did you ever get that? Was it given to you at birth? No, none of us were ever given the rule book for how to win at life. So you can't hit A, A, B, B, get the stars, grab the coins, defeat the bad guy unless you know the rules of the game. So when I took the wisdom of Transcendental Meditation and started applying that daily, combined that with Kabbalah and then the 178 other tools that I've cultivated, I don't always do the exact same thing every morning, but the things that I'm non-negotiable on are my Kabbalistic studies, Transcendental Meditation, a variety of affirmations and other things I do. And another technique I learned several years ago that's been utterly transformative called PSYCH-K. And it's all about realizing we're holy and perfect human beings and we're doing our best each and every day. And it's not about expecting In fact, one of my things I do every night, I call spiritual accounting before I go to bed every night, is I write down, how could I have lived today better? How could I have lived today better? Was I rude? Was I not present? Like last night, as I was reflecting before bed, my husband and I were engaged in a deep conversation and I was on my phone and I was like, ooh, yuck. I could have been present with him instead of like doing 2 things at once. Right? So whether or not anybody else ever calls me out on it, I write down how I could have lived each day better in reflection, not in judgment, in quiet observation. Then I write down, what am I proud of myself for? Like last night, I don't eat pork and I happen to have really good like pepperoni, like turkey pepperoni. And so we had pepperoni pizza last night. It was so good. And I was like, you know how you want that third piece of pizza? I restricted. So I was very proud of myself that I did not have the third piece of pizza last night. Right. Nobody else might've ever known it. Obviously I'm sharing it on the show right now, But what are you proud of yourself for? I meditated, I did qigong, I did, you know, whatever it was that I did. And then I finish off with, what am I grateful for? And what were the miracles in my life? I had this wickedly intelligent scientist doctor several years ago, Dr. Todd Ovocaitis, who challenged me on a show when I was interviewing him. And he said, Jen, I know you already have this very robust practice, and I'm going to add one more thing to it. I encourage you every day, Write down your moments of awe, synchronicity, wonder, and miracles. Now, why does this matter, Daniel? Because as we talked about earlier about that little miner's helmet and what we're looking for, if I spend my day looking for miracles, if I spend my day looking for how does life get any better than this, my mom plays this game, my nephew plays this game, anybody who knows me plays the how does life get any better than this game that I've learned from several teachers throughout the years. And by looking for those miracles, for identifying, for writing down the miracles, the synchronicities, I am intentionally directing that little light from the miner's helmet to the things that show me how miraculous life is. I could very easily turn my head and look for war and disaster and all the awful things. It doesn't mean I ignore it. It means that I put my attention where I know it'll best serve me so I can help more people.

I really like this. I mean, we are Swedish Wealth Institute methodology, Step 1 is your outer world is a reflection of your inner world. So I really like that you're doing this 2-hour practice to really just put yourself in the right state of mind and state of being to be able to go out and be your best in the world. And I really like that, that kind of review you're doing at the end of the day. It reminded me of a story I heard of the Roman Emperor Titus Vespasianus, who realized one day that that day he hadn't done a single favor for another person that day. And he turns to his inner circle and he says, my friends, I have wasted a day.

I love that. And you know, it's funny, I love that you bring this up. So one of my greatest teachers and dear, dear friends and mentors, Jocelyn Hermansaccio, we should get her on the show. She's incredible. She has a whole program called Unmessable With, right? And so Jocelyn was doing these 30 days of videos and I was a few days behind. I've been traveling. And it was midday one day, a couple of days ago. And one of her videos said, do 3 acts of kindness for a stranger and expect nothing in return. And it was like 1 o'clock the day I'm watching the video. I was like, oh, I already did. And I can look back in my mind and be like, oh cool, I already did that today. But it's just a nice little reminder of acts of kindness. In fact, a guy I know, Kevin Smith, I think is his name. He created World Kindness Week. And it was all because he ran to the grocery store one day. He was going to the grocery store, had to pick something up. Gets home, realizes he forgot his wallet. And he's like, oh God, I have to cancel all my credit cards. He calls the grocery store, it's not there. And not 10 minutes later does a young woman come and knock at his door and brings him and hands him the wallet, all the credit cards, all the money intact. And it actually turned into a whole movement he's created vis-à-vis kind of like the pay-it-forward method. And that's what's possible when we treat one another with human dignity and kindness.

Yeah, those things stick with you too. I remember as a teenager, My then girlfriend and me were going to dinner just at a food court and then to the movies. I was 15 years old, and I realized I couldn't afford 2 dinners and the movie.

Oh.

So I'm standing there in line. I'm going like, all right, you know what? We'll buy you something. I'll steal a couple of your French fries, and then we'll go to the movie. And we sit down at our table after ordering. And it turns out someone else in line had heard this and he just comes by and drops a plate, you know, a tray of food in front of me and says, I think you deserve dinner as well, and walks away. I didn't, I never even saw his face. He just dropped it down and left. And, you know, this is over 20 years ago and I'll never forget that, that man just going, you deserve dinner as well. And it was just incredible.

I love that. I will always remember The couple probably never know who I am. I used to love to do this thing. And actually it's a good reminder to start doing again. I live in Europe, so I'd be curious to see how people take it. But in the US, it used to make people so happy. I would do 2 things. One, I would often go in Starbucks and I would buy a $100 Starbucks gift card and I wouldn't tell them. And I'd say, use this to treat whoever's in line after me, no matter what they order, just treat it for them and give it to them as a gift. So I do that sometimes. Or that.

Oh, and so then they would just use it until they used it up for everyone. Oh, that's so cool.

So I loved doing that. And this is the first time I'm ever sharing this. And then the other thing I would do, I remember I was in Honolulu one day and there was a lovely couple and I think I was there for a conference and I'm sitting having dinner by myself and I'm just watching this couple who's celebrating something. And I pulled the waiter aside. I said, could you just treat them for me and put it on my bill? And actually I became friends with people who did this. I was in South Africa another time and this woman and her husband, my husband couldn't join me. I think he was was sick at the time when we were out to dinner and this couple and this woman and man are next to me. And I would always try to do it anonymously, but sometimes, you know, they would catch me before I would leave. And this woman and her husband became dear friends of mine because they were so honored. Or I would give people things like, I have this rule that if it's something I bought myself and you like it, I will take it off my back and give it to you. And a couple years ago I was at a wedding and I had just bought myself a quite expensive, beautiful, beautiful yellow dress that the first time I was ever wearing it was at the wedding. And this woman comes up to me, Sophie, and she's like, you look beautiful. That dress is amazing. That is the most beautiful dress I've ever seen. I was like, oh, we're about the same size. Would you like it? And she's like, what? And I was like, yeah, I have a suitcase of clothes. Why don't I just give it to you? And I literally gave it to her and we're still friends on Facebook to this day. It's hilarious.

Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, let's, let's get into it because again, one of the things that stood out for me with, with getting to know you is just how amazing you are at connecting people. Let's talk about the, the mechanics of that. Like, how did you become this kind of a connector?

As somebody who was so crushingly lonely, Daniel, that I wanted to take my own life, I now put myself in everybody else's shoes and I ask myself, how would I like to be treated? So if I'm ever in a group and if I ever notice, I throw a lot of parties, I throw 4 big parties a year. If I ever notice somebody standing off to the side where somebody is not included, I will always open it up. I will always take that person. I will hand introduce them to somebody else. Or if we're in a meeting, or if I notice that somebody's shy, like even just yesterday, there was a lovely gentleman I met who gave a pitch for a product or something, but he did it the way I used to do it. So, I, it's taken years for me to learn to put joy on my face. I was once doing an interview with a famous thought leader and, you know, you should never read the comments, right? And it literally said, who is the robot interviewing this person? And I'm like, oh God. And so, it's taken me years.

Oh no.

Just smiling. There's so much evidence about this. Putting joy on your face makes it more approachable. Now, it's not comfortable for me being honest.

It even works on a phone call too. People feel that energy. Like if you're talking to someone on the phone, just put a smile on your face and something changes.

Exactly. 110%. You are so right. I mean, they've scientifically studied this. So I've noticed now, I used to have resting robot face, resting bitch face. I remember an assistant I had said, Jen, resting robot face.

That's a good one.

It was either resting robot or resting bitch face. It was somewhere in between those two. And so it's taken me years of working with one of the top vocal coaches in the world, Arthur Samuel Joseph, who's like, put joy on your putum. That's what he calls it. And so I've learned now that just by smiling, it just allows other people to feel safe in my presence. And as somebody who felt so unsafe and so ostracized and alone and scared of people for so many years, I do everything I can to be sure people feel included. If you ever come to a party that I host, I immediately greet you at the door. I hug you and I immediately introduce you to somebody who might be valuable for you. So for me, when I get on calls with people, here's a fun little technique. This came from a couple friends, Randy Mullen and Mark Fujiwara. So Mark is a friend who has a financial planning company. And one day Mark's little girl, he worked downstairs in his office and he goes upstairs where his like 2, 3-year-old daughter is. And he comes upstairs and she says, Daddy, why are you fake smiling? And he's like, honey, I'm not fake smiling. She's like, yeah, Daddy, you fake smile. So he goes to his wife. He's like, honey, our daughter just said that I was fake smiling. What is that about? She says, oh honey, you always fake smile on Thursday. You have that client who's a jerk to you and then you take it out on us. And he's like, what? Mind blown. So Mark being the financial guy he is, he starts to measure his time and notice like what's going on with it. Well, he shares this with another mutual friend of ours, Randy Mullen. We all did a podcast together. All just about this thing called the Plus 2 Method. So Randy then turns it into a formula and after every call, so I now keep a running spreadsheet of every person I've ever met and I write down their first name, last name. I write down who referred them so I can always thank. That's really critical. If you get referrals, be sure to thank the people who referred you. And if it wasn't aligned, give the person feedback about what was missing so they can give you better referrals in the future. And then I take extensive notes about what matters to that person. That's another key thing is I ask every person I meet, What matters to you? What lights you up? What's alive for you? And then I write down what matters to them to see how I can be of service in the future. Like just recently, I'll digress for a moment. Just recently I had a friend who was throwing a longevity cruise in Antarctica with Dave Asprey. And they're like, yeah, we're looking for longevity people. I was like, oh, perfect. So I went in my spreadsheet and there were like 7 people that I, some of whom I hadn't talked to for a year, who I had the word longevity coded in there. So I immediately introduced them, but then taking it back to the Plus 2 method, So this is Randy and Mark's kind of combinative thing that they created. So after every call, I rate my energy, not the person, I rate my energy. Is my energy +2? Does it mean that after I get off a call, like when you and I get off a call, Daniel, I feel more energized, more invigorated after the call?

Well, I'm happy you feel that way. I feel the same way. So that's, it's good that it's mutual. All right.

Exactly. So we call this the +2. Is it +1? +1 means there's a little zing there. Maybe you didn't have enough time to drop in, but there was some curiosity kind of piqued, right? The +1 is like, ooh, that's curious. I wanna know more. 0 means net zero. You felt nothing. Probably won't remember them the next day. -1 is a little bit of a negative energy. Maybe there was taking energy, a little awkwardness, a little guardedness. And then -2 is you will never respond to that person again except via email. I've had a couple, I've met 2 -2s in the last 4 years. I have something called the Anti-Asshole Prayer. Anybody can go to antiassholeprayer.com. And the Anti-Asshole Prayer normally stops any assholes from even coming into my inbox or into my phones. But anyways, 2 people have come and the ones who are the minus 2s is it's just like taking and they talk at you and it's just like, ugh, you just like want to get the ick off of you, right? Or maybe there was just no synergy there. Maybe it just depleted you.

Might be just completely different communication styles. Like totally clash.

Exactly. So, that could be it too for a -2, which is really interesting. So, we rate people -2 to +2, and then we all have an agreement that we refer each other other +2s. And then, I go back through all of my best +2 meetings and I see who was my best +2 referral of the prior year. I will always prioritize that person. I will always go out of my way to help them. Like, who gave me my best +2 referrals of the prior year? Now, here's what's funny because I study human behavior. So, I sold one company in recruiting. Then after we sold that, Julian Adler, who was my business coach, came to me and said, Jen, why don't we create an algorithm based on your intuition for matching people? And I was like, shit, can we do that? I'm not a mathematician or a tech person or a scientist. He's like, yeah, you're a genius mathematician. So, Jules and our original co-founder Moon Cho, we spent 8 months pulling out of my brain how I intuitively match people. Now, here's what's mind-blowing. I've had many, because we've had thousands and thousands of people answer it. It's om.app/survey if you ever want to try it. But of the thousands of people I've met, most of the people I've ever met have also answered our matching survey. There seems to be correlative data to indicate if I consider you a +2, we're also going to match according to our algorithm, which is based on how you're motivated. So I have a theory of motivation that states if my motivators and your motivators are aligned and in harmony, we're automatically going to rate each other +2 more likely than if we're adversely motivated to each other.

Okay. So this is really interesting. You're essentially running a high-level CRM system on every single connection you make. I, I've tried to do that in the past, but it just, it didn't come naturally for me. So it kind of fits and starts. Like, what kind of tools do you use and how do you, how do you make sure to maintain it so it doesn't peter out?

The connections or the—

Your organization system for keeping an eye on the whole thing.

Well, one, I have my Excel spreadsheet that I list. I'm looking at right now, I have 1,222 people. And the other thing is too, I also have my tribe. So it's really helpful that I have this group called the Jen Hill Tribe/The Love Club. That's 320 entrepreneurs and so forth. And so I always kind of have them in my awareness because the tribe is extremely active and we do monthly calls. So I always keep those people in my awareness. And community is hugely popular right now, Danielle, as I'm sure you've seen with what you're doing with the Swedish Wealth Institute, right? People more than ever before are hungry for communities. So one way I do it is I be sure that anybody who's important, who I want to be sure is in my inner circle, is invited into the tribe. And then 2 is I ping people every time I think of them. Like the other day I was updating our tribe directory and there were probably 10 of our tribe members I hadn't talked to in a few months. And so I just ping people, send them voice tech notes, text notes on WhatsApp. And it's just about one of my friends, Charles Byrd, actually, changed my life when he taught me about referral parties and having these calls where you get on a call with a friend and then you ask like, who are you looking for? Who are your best referrals? And then you send each other referrals in real time on the call. Right.

Oh, that's so cool. So one of the things I— we have a lot of people who in our network who consider themselves to be connectors. And one of the things I see for a lot of them that, that's like a recurring issue is that they don't get a lot of value out of it. Like they'll connect to people who go off and have this amazing relationship or business, but not a lot of that value is retained for the connector. How do you make sure that you're also benefiting and growing as you're making these connections?

It's a great question. So 2 ways to do that. One, as I mentioned, I have the Jen Hill Tribe. The Jen Hill Tribe, people pay $99 a month. They have to have personally met me to be approved to be in the tribe because I want to maintain the integrity of And so if you're a part of the tribe, then you're already paying me a monthly fee and I'm not charging a huge amount. And if you want, there's a higher level tier where you get to pay me for 30 minutes of my time. And I basically just channel your best connection. So like level 1, you pay $99 a month and then there's different tiers after that, depending on how much of my time you want.

Obviously that's a value, value grab for you. Not, not in a negative way, but you're generating a value for yourself and you're providing extra value Yeah, there has to be an energetic exchange.

I was doing it for free at first and then I was like, oh, and all of my mentors and business advisors said, you have to honor your time. They're like, people have told me I should be charging $10,000 a month just, or $10,000 a year just to be a part of the tribe. But I'm like, listen, I don't want to just take money for the sake of it. I just want to have there be integrity around the energetic space. The other thing is I get checks often from people who do things. So I tell people, like I was on a call last night with a referral partner of mine. And we were talking about a pretty big potential deal and I was like, okay, well, let's just be sure that you and I see a piece of it if it happens. And so I have these agreements with people where they give me 10%, 20% of a deal if it gets closed. But you have to have—

So you actually put that in writing when it's a proper larger deal that you're facilitating?

Big, big deal. Yes. I have some joint— I have a lot of joint ventures. Highly recommend that people look into joint ventures, affiliate relationships, strategic alliances, Some, all the JVs I have that are really formalized where people have actually done formalized profit-sharing things where it's like 50/50 or 60/40 splits, those I have JV agreements for. A lot of my friends, we just have a gentleman's handshake where it's just like, oh, you refer me to this person. Like I got money deposited in my bank account on Monday. And I was just like, oh, that's nice. Thank you for that.

So, oh, that's great. So tell us a story about like a special, like one referral that you've made or that someone made for you. that just sticks with you?

You know, I have to take it to a friend of mine, Johann. I would not have the Jenn Hill Tribe if it weren't for one of the greatest gifts I've been given. So as I said, you know what it's like, you've been on calls with me. I channel people and I don't even know. It's like, it's just like whoosh. It's like a faucet gets open in my brain. I kind of say it's like X-Men, Xavier from X-Men when he puts on the helmet and can see every human on the planet. That's what it's like to be in my brain. And so a friend of mine, this new guy Johann and I got reprogrammed about a year and a half ago. Ago. So, a few months into me knowing him, he puts on big events. He's a prolific entrepreneur out of Australia and does a lot of big, like, 1,000-person-plus events. So, I referred him a bunch of AI people and speakers and podcasters and thought leaders. And then, one day in February, a year ago, he says, mate, he's Australian. He's like, I have a gift for you. Get in your WhatsApp. I was like, huh? And he's like, no, it's literally the best gift ever. I was like, okay. And so, we're in different time zones. I'm in Lisbon, he's in Australia. I get in He took the 36 original people I referred him over 3 months, put it into the WhatsApp group, called it the Jen Hill Tribe, custom built out the whole thing for me. And that now is the 320-person group that we run around the world.

Oh, wow. So he created the core of what— that's amazing. That is so cool.

It was one of, I mean, I've received so many extraordinary gifts. I actually, another friend of mine, Giovanni Marsico, was life-changing. Shout out to Genevieve Hart. She introduced me to Gio and we were just immediately like brother and sister. I went to 2 of his events last year in Toronto and in Austin respectively, met some of the best business connections of my life at his events, all because Genevieve introduced me. And I may be getting my book published, The Recovering Asshole, with one of the connections I met because of Gio's event, who was like this guy who wrote 300 award-winning bestselling books. And I, he was keynoting it. at my friend Gio's conference in Toronto. And I was just starting to get the bare bones of the book written. And this was last September. And I said, do you mind? You know, you're a prolific author. Can I read you this to see if I'm like high and hallucinating or if this actually is worth something? So I read him the opening of the book and he did a double take. He's like, did you say that's your first draft of that? I said, yeah, why? He's like, it's insane. And he approached me the next morning. He's like, I can't stop thinking about your book. It is so— and coming from a guy who's written 300 award-winning That would've never happened if it weren't for Giovanni.

Oh, that's amazing. Well, it does help that your book was really good too, to be fair. You still had a little bit of a part of that as well.

Yeah.

All right. We end every interview with a round of rapid-fire questions. So, I'm gonna ask you 5 questions and you just answer the first thing that comes to mind.

All right.

Let's do it. You ready? All right. First one. One behavior that destroys trust instantly?

Fear.

What is one behavior that rebuilds trust that has been lost?

Curiosity.

What is one leadership myth that you'd retire today?

That you have to be an asshole to get things done. Yeah.

One question people should ask before reacting?

How could I see this differently?

All right, final one. What is one thing you are still working on personally?

Every day I have a fear of rejection. And in fact, I read, I'm reading a book right now called Rejection Proof, which I highly recommend. And I just wrote an article this week on my Inspired Living Tools newsletter I do on LinkedIn about rejection and how a lot of people would probably be shocked to know that my deepest, darkest fear is rejection because I was so awkward when I was younger. I was awkward. I didn't know how to make friends. I was ungodly lonely. And so a lot of people think, oh, you have a network of tens of thousands of people around the world. You're loved by many, blah, blah, blah. And I'm always terrified that I've said or done something wrong that offended people. So every day I work on that.

All right. So we, as you know, we love spoiling our audience and making sure they're always getting the best and getting to connect directly with our amazing speakers and partners. If someone wants to learn more from you or connect with you, what is— what do you got?

So I recommend going to antiassholeprayer.com, just like it sounds, antiassholeprayer.com, no hyphens, and you'll be able to download a free copy of my 21 magical mantras that I use every day, including the anti-asshole prayer that literally everybody I've ever met is like, please, can I have the anti-asshole prayer? So I just decided to make it a free gift for when I appear on shows like this. And that'll also keep you alert of any other speaking opportunities. It'll tell you when the book comes out and you'll get special offers from partners and things like that and opportunities and articles that I share. Amazing.

We'll link to that in the show notes, guys. So go and grab that. Jennifer, thank you so much for joining us. Do you have any final words of wisdom before we part ways?

Thank you, Daniel. For all of you out there, I know things may look bleak right now. I know that I'm not a big fan of the media and the news, but I know if you do read it, there's a lot of things out there about hate and divisiveness and fear. And I would say that the only thing you are ever going to have control over is your choice to respond versus react. So do the work proactively, do the work so that when life comes barreling towards you, you have tools in your super tool belt. I always like to say that Batman is one of the only superheroes who is not superhuman. What him— what makes him superhuman is his super tool belt. So go out there, develop your own super tool belt. So when you find yourself falling off a proverbial cliff, somebody betrays you, something awful happens in the world, have the tools to put yourself back into a state of resilience and live your life proactively rather than reactively.

Yeah, Bad Bunny said it well in the Super Bowl halftime show. The only thing more powerful than hate is love. So let's put ourselves and give us those, those tools. Jennifer, thank you so much for joining us today. I appreciate you.

My pleasure. Thank you, Daniel.

Thank you so much for joining us for this episode with Jennifer Hill. It is time for my favorite part of the show. This is where we break down the episode into clear, actionable insights for you to implement right away. Because here at the Swedish Wealth Institute, we're always searching for the answer for one simple question. What is the difference that makes the difference? Why do some people become wildly successful while others don't? Well, here are the 5 takeaways from today's episode that you can implement into your life. So, the first takeaway me and the team found was connection starts with the relationship you have with yourself. So, Jennifer shared something incredibly important. If you're disconnected from yourself, it becomes very difficult to truly connect with other people. Many leaders try to build stronger teams, networks, relationships while internally operating from stress, Fear or rejection. If you fix your own relationship with yourself, you can show up cleaner, calmer, and more present with others. 2, you do not need to be perfect, but you do need to be self-aware. So for me, my big takeaway from Jennifer's story was her honesty of leaving her asshole era. She built success, but she was damaging relationships While working in it. For her, it changed when she started looking at herself honestly and choosing a different way to show up. So, for me, that's leadership. It's not knowing that you— not pretending that you know everything. It's being willing to grow every single day. The right person in the wrong role can look like the wrong person. That's our third takeaway. Jennifer's story about almost firing a team member was really, really eye-opening. Sometimes the issue is not the person, it's the role, the environment, or the way their strengths are being used. So don't necessarily just write someone off. Ask yourself and them if they are on the right seat. 4, better relationships come from curiosity, not judgment. So when trust is damaged, Jennifer said that one of the most powerful tools for rebuilding is curiosity. So instead of reacting, attacking, or assuming the worst, ask, how can I see this differently? That one question can change everything and create space for a better response. 5, your network compounds when you treat it intentionally. So Jennifer doesn't connect people randomly. She tracks relationships. She pays attention to energy, remembers what matters to people. And looks for aligned introductions. Now, she doesn't hold all this in her head. She holds this in an Excel spreadsheet. So, she then uses her Plus 2 method to remind her network of what is the right person to connect this to, what will be the quality of energy, trust, and value that can flow through these relationships. So, before you go, we've prepared something really special for you. If you are in North America, we have tomorrow the Financial Freedom Summit starting. It has Robert Kiyosaki, Les Brown, Nick Vujicic, Brian Tracy, Marcy Shimoff, Jack Canfield, Janet Atwood, and more amazing speakers. And we will teach you the 7 steps to greatness that were created in a mastermind between us and a whole bunch of these absolutely amazing speakers, people of their who have literally written the book on how to become successful debated what is the actual 7 steps to greatness. It's an absolutely amazing process that we'll share with you. If you're in Europe or Asia, we have the Business Wealth Forum coming up the 9th and 10th of May that you are more than welcome to join. We'll share the link in the show notes to our events page where you can claim your free ticket. Now, before you go, if you have someone that you think would benefit from listening to this episode, please feel free to share it with them. And of course, don't forget to do as thousands of other people all over the world already have done and follow or subscribe so that you don't miss what's coming next. And if you want to give us a 5-star review, it means the world to us. So we really appreciate that. Depending on what platform you are, you can do that by clicking the link in the show notes. Give us a like, give us a comment, or review the podcast with a 5-star review. It, it truly means a lot. Next week, we have an incredible episode with Ozana where she actually uses me as a guinea pig, where we look at how identity is only the tip of the iceberg and how you can work on the origin seeds to make changes in your life. It was really, really Exciting. I learned a lot, and you'll truly see me be very open and vulnerable as we walk me through this process. So I hope you join us for that, and I'll see you next week. Thank you so much. This is Daniel Wood and the Swedish Wealth Institute Podcast.

I'm the one that managed to find or generate 100,000 euros in one day, 200,000 euros in another day, and I lost 300,000 euros. And then I lost €150,000 in another day.

I realized now that I was chasing success.

I wanted success, but I could not hold success. It's one thing to be able to achieve something, and it's another thing to live at that level.