004: Take a Stand with Antonio Neves

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This is your time. How can we earn twice as much in half the time with joy and ease while serving the highest good? That is our guiding question here at the Freetime Cafe, your home for heart based business. I'm your host Jenny Blake. Join me for conversations with authors, friends and fellow business owners as we explore ways to free your mind, time and team to do your best work. Now onto today's show.

Hello my friends. I am delighted to be here today in conversation shooting the breeze with my good friend Antonio Neves. We last jammed on Pivot podcast 241 about his brand new book Stop Living on Autopilot. Take responsibility for your life and rediscover a bolder, happier you. Tony is super prolific author, speaker, podcaster. This is his first traditionally published book so I'm excited to get into what that's been like. And he is an internationally recognized speaker, coach, trainer and award winning journalist and most of all just one of the brightest, friendliest, most energetic people I've ever met. So Tony, welcome back to the show.

Thank you. I'm glad to be here and I appreciate that nice and warm and fuzzy introduction. It made me feel good inside.

Well, thank you for actually helping me kick off this new series which is specifically for entrepreneurs and I'm curious to hear from you. So I mentioned this is your first traditionally published book, but you've published several priors. So how did you decide to go the traditional route and what has the experience been like for you?

You know what's funny, I think I decided to do this. I don't know if I decided to do it or Instagram and social media decided for me because you see all of your friends doing amazing things, getting their books published with major publishing houses. You're one of those people that has done that with success. And I think I've always felt this internal type of pressure to have something published with a traditional publishing house. Prior to this, I've self published three books that have done very well. If you go to Amazon, it won't look like they've done well. But you don't see all of the direct book sales that I do to organizations when I go speak on stages and they buy 300 books there, 500 books there, et cetera. But I think I felt this is interesting from a credibility perspective. There's something about a book being published with a major outlet that does change things a little bit, Whether it's right or wrong. Even who cares about the quality of the book. Gotta say, sometimes society, but even sometimes organizations that hire you look at you a different way if you're published by Penguin Random House versus being self published. So it was a personal goal of mine and I got. I can't front. It was definitely influenced by seeing friends doing it as well and me saying, I want to do that too.

I know what you mean. That there is this little itch. I had that itch. I thought I was going to self publish my first book around the time you and I met, Life after college. And then I just felt this. I'll never know unless I try. And I don't know. Are you experiencing this? For both of my last books, the very first question people asked me is when I said, oh, I'm coming out with a book. And they say, oh, who's publishing it? Do you still get that? As the very first question people ask?

I do get that, but I remember getting it on the other side too. Prior to this, when people found out that it was self published, it was as if it was like, oh, it's not as important. It's not, it's not. It's not a real book. And so let's be clear.

Oh.

Oh, it's self published, which is changing.

It's changing.

You're doing really well.

Yeah, changing so much. So, by the way, if you're someone who's considering self publishing a book, don't stop, hit, publish. Make it happen. You know, I think frankly, this book being published with Penguin Random House wouldn't have happened if I didn't self publish those three books. If I didn't kind of believe in myself, if you will and hit publish. So previously. Oh, you got these books. Who's the publisher? Oh, I self published them. As if now all of a sudden I didn't have any worth and I could feel the judgment. And again, this could just be my interpretation, that could be the story in my head. But then now all of a sudden when people find out, oh, you're being published by a division of Penguin Random House, Rodale Books, like, oh, it's like as if, you know, they take a little bit more interest and then how did it happen? How'd you get your eight? Then it gets into that aspect of things. And so that's just with friends and people in the community. I think I've noticed some of the conversations I've had with clients. When I say clients, I'm talking about speaking clients. I feel like, and I don't know if you can experience, have experienced this, Jenny. I feel like I get treated with a little more respect, like, oh, here comes this guy from the book from a major publishing house. There's like a different energy that I'm getting from people which I find not odd because I remember all my days in television when I worked for major television networks. I remember Pete treating me a little kind of a certain way when they found out I worked for Nickelodeon or they found out I was on camera for NBC, the energy just shifted in the room, like, oh, you're of value now.

It's amazing the power that gatekeepers still have. And we have friends, including you, who have been extremely successful self publishing books and which is, I think it's almost harder because you have to be so self motivated the entire way through. There's no one who's holding you accountable to your deadlines unless you create that accountability structure for yourself. And now it's just more and more of a trend. But totally I can relate. I feel I puff my chest puffs up a little more. You know, I'm like, I did it. I made it through this crazy gauntlet. But I really respect both paths as well. And what I love about you is that you've done both. And you're saying, I agree with you, like if anyone out there is self publishing, go, go, go. There's nothing wrong with that. And it actually does open the door. It just gives you more optionality for whatever comes next. Even if that book might get picked up by a publisher. I think also one hesitation a lot of entrepreneurial types have is publisher is going to slow me down. So were you at all, was that a factor for you with this most recent book, stop living on autopilot. Were you, was there a part of you thinking it's going to slow me down. And how did you. What were the benefits of going this route?

I'd say frankly I was a little bit excited for the slowdown, if you will. A benefit was, I mean, I can't lie, it was some of the money on the front end. When you write a book, you get an advance depending upon who you are. That dollar amount can be low two figures to high six figures. It varies. I can tell you right now mine was not in the high six figures but what I liked one. It was a goal. I did have this goal. I'm an ambitious person. I am a person that likes to achieve. When I look at my enneagram or whatever, you're like, this dude is like, you know, the achievering type dude. The benefit I liked about it, Jenny, which was unique is I like to get what I call red ink. And don't get me wrong, with my self published books I always hired professional editors. So if you're self publishing a book, don't skimp on hiring. Still getting an editor. But when I remember when I was in grad school at Columbia University, I used to hate turning in my master's thesis to my advisor who was a Pulitzer prize winning author. And I hated turning it in because I knew it would come back covered in red ink. And I have so much work to do. One day I complained about all the red ink he gave me and he looked at me and was like, yo, don't you know you pay for the red ink? So in a way I enjoyed this process with the publisher though, you know, yes, definitely slower, but there was a lot of red ink involved. I think about the writing process, the deadlines, getting it to my personal editor before I got it to the editor at the publishing house, them coming back saying this is good. We don't like that. Having to defend my thesis, if you will. Being challenged in ways like we really think you can make this better. You know what, we know you think you're done, but we think there's a chapter missing. We need you to add another chapter. And I'm like, I do not have 6,000 more words in me. But being pushed in a way that I otherwise wouldn't have been pushed. I compare it to this. You can go to the gym and workout. But Jenny, you and I both know that workout by yourself versus that workout with a trainer are two different workouts. Am I right?

That's so true.

I'm not saying you didn't get a good workout in by yourself, but odds are your workout with your Trainer is going to be that much more. And I feel like I got that from working with, you know, Rodale books.

I love that. That's. My dad's been one of my longtime editors, and he calls it gloves off mode. So I love how you call it the red ink. And your story, even from university days, is so such a powerful reminder. This is what we're paying for. And my dad will say, are you sure you want me to go gloves off? And he will be ruthless, like, before I ever turn it in to the publisher. And then one of my book mentors early on said to me, whenever you ask for feedback, tell people, don't spare me. Spare the reader. Like, do not put kid gloves on with me, and try to protect my feelings. And so it's kind of funny when people get offended by that mope of editing or feedback. It's understandable. We're very vulnerable. I think writing and especially turning in a shitty first draft to anyone is just such a vulnerable kind of awful thing. It's just part of the process. But that ruthless feedback is so important. And I'm with you. My editor had me make a lot of changes I wouldn't have thought to make on my own, and it ultimately made it a much better book that I just wouldn't have seen coming. It's the same way. You mentioned the gym I often think about when I do a home yoga practice. I'm definitely not making myself do the reverse triangles or, like, moves that I just can't stand that are my nemesis. What's one that I really hate? Bird of Paradise. Ugh. Like, I'll never make myself do these poses that I just hate. But if I ran a class, I'd be the only one in the class sitting there in a child's pose. So I'm more likely to go ahead.

And do it straight up. Like, it's good friction that's being provided. And I think what's also. And I'm not sure if you experienced this with publishing your book so far, is there's also really cool moments when you're getting this feedback from your editor or from someone and they want you to do X, but you make the decision like, no, I'm gonna keep it. So those. You know. Yeah, you pick those moments, those things you're. No, I'm not getting rid of that part. That's really part of my story. That's crucial now. That's not everything. You can't. Every piece can't be like that. But I had my moments where I'm like, no, that's staying in. And you find that you think you're gonna get friction back from your editor and they're like, okay, if it means that much, we're all in with you. You know, like that. And that's pretty cool.

Yes. It really does solidify. I was adamant that the word career not being the subtitle of Pivot. I think they wanted it to be Pivot. The only career move that matters is your next one. And I was like, the word career is dead. There's no effing way. I will not allow it. I campaigned so hard to make sure that word wasn't in there.

I bet that was a big battle because, I mean, they're thinking about search terms, right?

SEO, making sure it's clear you got.

To pick the things you fight for.

That's true. How long have you been self employed now?

I have been self employed now, technically. Get this, since 2009.

Wow.

So even though I was people for three years, you would have the perception that I was employed by NBC, which I was. But my work with NBC from 2009, 2012, where I hosted a business show that NBC produced, I was on a contract, so I was not an employee with benefits and 401k and all of that fun stuff. So I was a work for hire, if you will. And I did other gigs while I worked for NBC, other television projects where I was a host, reporter, correspondent, you name it. Did the same thing with pbs when I worked with them. I was on contract. I was not a staff nine to fiver. So I've been entering that world in 2009. So I've always had interesting seasons of being busy, busy, busy, busy, then slow, slow, slow. I think I'm fortunate that being an athlete pretty much always had the summers off. And so you're busy for the fall and for the summer and for the spring. But then you have that kind of respite, if you will, during the summer even though you're still training. And I think that prepared me for those, those slow months that I have encountered. I encountered early on, but even periodically show up today.

What sport did you play?

All of them. Football in the fall, basketball in the winter, baseball, track and field in the.

Spring and summer circuit.

Oh, I loved it. And I was.

What position in football and baseball?

Defensive back in football. Baseball. I was a outfielder. I was decently fast and was fortunate enough to get a earn a scholarship in college for track and field. But sports were definitely my savior.

And what track and field event?

I was a long jumper. Long jumper and triple jumper. I just jumped into dirt.

Amazing. I don't think I ever knew this about you.

Yeah, there's an athlete in me that shows up, I think pretty much. And all that I do. A competitor that.

Can get unleashed in a way that think a lot of people don't see and they see me in certain scenarios. But yeah, that dude is there.

I feel like that must be such a benefit in terms of running your own business. Just that work ethic and grit that you get from sports and that competitive drive and that commitment to excellence. It must help you in what you do.

It helps because I remember I posted something on Social recently and I'm paraphrasing right now, Jenny, but I wrote something to the extent of even when you're doing work that fulfills you, that doesn't mean that every day it's going to feel like you're ice skating on a rainbow. Most days are going to feel like you're working a shift, sometimes a shift at a factory. And I've worked shifts at factories. And when being an athlete before I earned a scholarship in college, I was what they call a walk on. You try out for the team and if you're lucky enough, you get earned a spot on the roster but you don't have a scholarship. And every single day you have to bring it every single day because any single day you can be cut if you're not doing good. So I have always kind of known what it was to have a walk on mentality knowing you couldn't take a day off. I've worked in factories. My father was a factory worker. So I've always been willing to get my hands dirty and do the blue collar kind of work. And I think a lot of people assume when they go into business for themselves that that blue collar work ethic, that working a shit, that working a shift goes away and if anything it shows up more. A mutual friend of our, of ours, Bassam Tarazi, we always like to laugh when people say, oh, I want to start my own business so I can have more free time. And you're like, more free time? Do you know you're about to have probably less free time?

Colonizes your mind. Like say goodbye to having a free mind.

Serious.

Okay, well, let's talk about that. So how have you evolved to create and carve out free time for yourself? Because I know you're also a father of twins. You must have gotten to very crafty ways of setting up your team and your time at this point in your business. I would Think to allow you to just elevate from that. Working a shift mode. That's so easy when you're just starting out in business. How have things evolved for to where you are now?

Yeah, now being married, having, you know, toddler twins. I don't think they're even toddlers anymore because they're four, about to be five.

Which is the cutest age. Oh, my goodness.

Amazing age. I can sleep for two months. I could sleep for two months straight. Seriously. Boundaries come up because, you know, the good thing about having twins, specifically Jenny, is that they require for things to go good in the household. A routine is key. Having a key schedule is really, really imperative and important. So, you know, when you work on your own, there's not always a bifurcation, delineation, if you will, between church in state, you can work all the time. Even when you're on the couch watching something on Netflix. Your phone can be out, you can be responding to an email, something like that. What I've had to do over the years is definitely set the boundaries of the end time when things come to an end for a day when I will begin in the morning. I'm fortunate that in the work that I do, that I enjoy, Jenny, that if I have to do something on Saturday or Sunday, I'm not mad at that because it's. I'm doing something for me. It's my business. It's my work, though. I try to limit that. But I'm not mad at it if I have to go to the home office for an hour or two on a Saturday. Just in the past couple of years, I've hired support. I wouldn't even say an assistant, you know, a project manager that supports me and takes a lot off of my plate that I don't want to think about that, frankly. I want to use much of my brain power for creativity for those, like, for, you know, strategic planning, those things, as opposed to administrative type stuff. And that opened up a lot of space for me. But that required me, frankly, releasing a lot of fear of what that meant to pay someone else X amount of dollars a month. That fear of like, oh, am I gonna be okay? That now that those few thousand dollars are gone a month, it required them having trust in someone who can do these things. And as you probably know, you probably experienced that as well. I found that making those decisions actually opened me up more for creativity and actually increased my income as opposed to decreased it. I'm glad I waited for a while to make that decision to kind of, you know, make Some of those hires, again, contractors, not staff people. But I think early on it was important for me to kind of know a little bit of everything about what I was doing so I could clearly communicate that to someone else.

It really is such a powerful shift and freeing up your mind and your energy and similar to you, I mean, I say no one in my business works full time, even me. So it never made sense to me to hire full time team members because I kind of appreciate this interlocking ecosystem of small businesses that I figure most likely I'm not going to be the person's only client, you know, if they're on my team and. But yeah, getting that support on the project management or client communication side is so vital. And what I'm finding, I don't know about you, but it allows me to really, when I show up for clients, it is for a strategy session. If it's a speaking engagement, it's not for the scheduling and all the little steps along the way that actually if I really step back and think about it, it just doesn't make sense. Like, why would your keynote speaker be sort of in the weeds calendaring with you? It just doesn't quite make sense even from a positioning standpoint, although there are plenty who probably do that. And it's fine. And I'm not knocking that in any way. But I just realized, just like you said, it does.

Increasingly free up time and space.

Oh, 100%. And it changes the dynamic. Listen, we both do a lot of speaking and when I stopped being the main point of communication for my contacts at companies where I was speaking, even something energetically shifted there because even though I'd show up for that initial call for the strategy, those types of things, and all the scheduling, the planning, behind the scene, logistics were being done by someone else. When I showed up the day of the engagement or whatever, it just was different than previously when I was the one doing everything. Whether that's right or wrong, I don't know, but it just again, I felt like the energy, the dynamic with them towards me felt a little bit more special.

Absolutely. And I remember feeling like I am currently conveying that I'm a one woman shop. What I am currently conveying is that I'm an author, speaker, coach, this kind of one woman shop. And I felt that it actually detracted quite a lot from my negotiating power as well, because I felt that people were just negotiating with me. Jenny. I wanted to be liked, I wanted to be nice, I wanted to be accommodating because I was going to be the one maintaining that relationship with them. And then when I made that shift to having other people be the primary point of contact and me showing up when I can truly add my unique value, yes, there was a complete shift and I even took out of my bio. Now it says Jenny Blake is the founder of Pivot Method. It doesn't say author, speaker, coach. The services that I, Jenny, deliver, it's the business now. And that was so important to me psychologically, so that I don't really want anyone to know how big my team is or not. You know, I like having a little wizard of Oz thing going over here where they're not interacting with me. Only I have team members and it's really, no one really needs to know exactly how many team members or how it's. How it's all set up. Of course we're talking about it here on this podcast, but as a front facing profile at least of the Bivvit website. So let's leave him guessing a little bit.

I agree with you 100%. And just briefly, you mentioned something about not expecting your assistant project manager to work solely for you full time. What a gift. The project manager I work with works with another big time author and coach and what she brings to the table with her experience, knowledge from working with him, who's on a different level than me, it's just gold. It supports me in so many ways. So I think years ago I may have been a little bit intimidated by that. Now I'm excited, like, yes, let's learn.

That's amazing. And how did you find this person?

Referrals.

Yeah, that's how I've always found people too.

Referrals are great, don't get me wrong. You can, depending upon what your needs are, of course, you can find different organizations, businesses, online, people who are abroad, et cetera. But I found that at this stage where I'm at, I don't have time for a lot of mistakes, a lot of back and forth. And so referrals have always been the way to go.

And what about thinking about, have you shifted beyond bringing on a project manager, which is so amazing. Have you shifted how you think about your time or the. I mean, I would imagine that once you had your kids, which is now several years ago, that the amount of time shrunk immediately that you could even give to your business? Has that been your experience? And if so, how do you. How else have you adjusted?

I say that I bullshit a lot less, let's put it that way. I think that's A good way to put it. I love it.

That's what I hear from a lot of parents. They're like my ability to say no.

Just completely accelerated the ability to say no. I have become a lot more direct in my communication. What sometimes would take me three hours to fiddle around on, I can get done in uninterrupted. 50 minutes is key because you're focused, you're not messing around. It reminds me of being a journalist. I think one of the best things about being a journalist is having a deadline. If many journalists didn't have a deadline, like, hey, this article was due tonight at 5, it wouldn't get done. You know, my short time frame working in local news. I love Jenny showing up at the news station at like 7 to 8am and you had no idea what was happening that day, but you knew by 5:30 you'd have a story done that's gonna be on television. Even though you woke up not knowing what it was going to be because it's, you know, it's daily news. So I don't bullshit nearly as much. I'm definitely more, more focused, more zeroed in. I found that my communication is definitely a lot more. Less. It's less of a massage, you know, it's more direct. Not rude, not rude or anything, but just clear. Because I don't want to waste anyone else's time and I don't want to waste my time. And you know, my family is important to me. And I can tell you right now, with all that we've experienced folks experienced in the year 2020, I also realized how much I frankly wasn't present for my family. Like I had this life where I could be home for three days, get on a plane the next day and be gone for four, be home for a couple days, get on a plane. And I was constantly just distracted. I wasn't really even fully all in at home. I was just, I was here and I'd show up, hey guys. But I was like, next thing you know, I'm just, no, I'm leaving in a couple of days. So it's required me to. I'm fully. When I'm in dad mode, I do my damage to me fully in dad mode, you know, husband, all that kind of stuff and work mode the same.

That's amazing. And yeah, just. It's so crazy not to be on airplanes all the time.

It's crazy and I'm looking forward to it, you know, to doing it again. Don't get me wrong, I miss that work. I miss seeing people in person. I miss hugging strangers after an event because they really are touched by something that you said. But also, you know, just briefly, you mentioned kids, and I have to add something. I feel really, really blessed, Jenny, that as my kids grow up, they're gonna know dad is doing something he cares about. And they're not gonna hear dad hopefully saying, just another case of the Mondays or dad, you know, Although I still.

Get cases of the Mondays. Oh, we all do.

On the Wednesdays.

But okay, one more day to the weekend. Yeah. But I just hope my kids know that. Yo, when dad goes into this home office and he shuts the door, like, I'm not mad, right? Like, dad's going to do something he created. So I want them to know they can do that as well.

And that you're creating from your own mind. I mean, this is what I love about ideapreneurs. Entrepreneurs. I wonder how you. Do you describe yourself as an entrepreneur. Like, what do you say if you're at a conference back in the day or cocktail party? How do you describe yourself?

I still don't have an answer to that question as a business journalist for so long, always when I think about entrepreneurs and all these amazing men and women, I've been interviewed in profiles over the years. I've looked at those kind of as folks who create, who create jobs, create businesses, et cetera, like these large types of organizations. And then you see a small. How do you define what a small business owner is?

And then small business owner to me conveys brick and mortar a little bit. An entrepreneur is like all the Silicon Valley stu startups that get funding. I don't have a good.

Yeah, I don't. Yeah, I've actually.

Label either.

I've released labels. I mean, maybe, yeah, I can say I'm a founder. You know, I have a. I'm, I'm incorporated. I can, I can say I'm the CEO. But it's funny, Jenny, I don't know about you. The older I get, the more experienced. Like, I don't even care anymore about titles. Like, it's so funny how much time I would waste in my life. Oh.

That person's director. And then you, then you meet him and you're like, ah, you know, who cares? You know, Like, I like to. Here's a question I like to ask people. Sometimes when I'm giving talks, I'm like, how would you introduce yourself if you couldn't reference your career? People couldn't, they couldn't even do it. Like, they're like, I don't know, because I so identify solely with my profession. So I'll just say I'm a. I'm an author nowadays. What do you do? I'm an author. I just say that nowadays.

I say that a lot too, because of everything. I feel that a lot of the work I do stems from the big ideas and the books that I write, that the books are what open the door to everything else and make everything else possible. So, yeah, and it's interesting, my husband is Lebanese and in Lebanon, when I would go, nobody says, what do you do? That is not even in the first five, if not 10 questions that somebody asks. And at least in the circles that we would travel in, people were a little more. In a little more typical or traditional jobs. And so nobody cared. Nobody was like, no one was asking, what do you do? So it was very interesting to have that experience of, yeah, nobody cares. Nobody's even asking that. So what are you going to talk about? Because here in the US I feel it's often a default. Like you just want to kind of get a clue to someone and you go, so what do you do? And.

It is fascinating to think about a conversation where we don't start from there.

Yeah. Because then also when we get human and we can say that I'm a wife or I'm a husband or I'm a father, or I'm a rock climber, I'm an adventurer, I frickin. I smashed the New York Times Sunday puzzle before 8am every Sunday. Like it's.

We become more human.

Yeah. I like asking, what are you most excited about at the moment?

Ooh, that's a good one. You had me thinking about. You know, you and I are both big fans of the author Gay Hendrix.

Yes.

And in one of his books, he talks about being at an event and he sees some man in a room and they basically both say to each other, you know, I'm not really into small talk. And the guy says to him, well, are you open to some big talk? And that question you just asked opens the door to some. Some big talk.

Yeah, I feel it just gives people permission to find whatever they want to talk about. And also I always suggest to people, let's say if I'm talking to. I don't know. If someone asks, how do I describe what I do? I just say, don't worry about it. If someone says, what do you do? Just start with, well, right now the thing I'm most excited about is you don't actually need to answer the question. No one's asking because they really desperately want to know what you do every day. They just want to hear you say something you're excited about.

I agree 100%. But you know what that takes, Jenny? And here's what we're talking about. We're talking about self confidence, but more than anything, we're talking about being rooted and being fine with who we are. And so it's taking me here, my very early 40s now, to be able to say I don't care about titles anymore. Let's be clear. In my early 20s and 30s, I did. I wanted to have CEO on my business card. I wanted to have founder my business card. It's only with me getting to better now, understand myself, know my story, experiences, meeting others, that I feel more rooted and grounded in who I am. And I found that, oddly enough, some of the most successful people in the world, whether we're talking about businesses, dollars and cents, et cetera, are so unassuming that you wouldn't even know they do what they do because they are so rooted and grounded in who they are just as a human being. They don't have to flaunt a title to you.

Right. They don't need your validation. They feel good.

Exactly. That's what we're talking about. So maybe that's what it is. I don't need that validation that I once craved.

Okay, Speaking of being rooted in who you are and owning that, we were talking a little bit before we hit record, and I said, this will be interesting to come back to. How do you think about taking risks in terms of what you talk about? And I know even your book, you share some very vulnerable stories. For me, there's still a fear. It's so crazy. Like, even having left Google in 2011, to this day, I still have these leaving corporate moments where I want to be pleasing, you know, to the people who hire me to speak or consulting or on the pivot side of things. And I wonder for you, how do you balance owning who you are and taking some risks in really putting your opinions out there and talking about what you want to talk about while managing that voice that's like, don't make yourself unhirable, Tony.

Yeah, that's real. And that's something that's been on my mind for quite a few years, and it has been a journey. As you mentioned in my book, I put it all out there. You know, you never know when you're getting another opportunity to write a book with a major publishing house. So I decided to write an honest book, and I share A lot that I've never shared before publicly, that I think a lot of people are going to relate to. I've had moments when I've been on stages giving a keynote, a keynote I've given hundreds of times. But when I get to some random section of the keynote, I feel I'll say the spirit, if you will, calling me to go in another direction, to preach a little bit, if you will, not based on faith or anything. I'm being called to go deeper in a way than I previously do on this keynote. And in the past, in those moments, I would catch myself and I would reel myself in, like, oh, and stay on script. They hired you because they saw you at that big convention or conference and they want you to do exactly what they hired, what they saw you do there. So I would reel myself in. And then there have been times when, more recently, I used to wear the speaker uniform for the guy. You know, the speaker uniform, you wear a crisp pair of slacks or jeans, a pair of loafers, totally something you.

Never would wear anywhere except on a.

Stage, never would wear in real life, buttoned down in a nice, nice blazer. And then a couple years ago, I realized I hated that it was like this uniform that I wore, and I started dressing more like me in a dope pair of jeans, a T shirt, and a pair of sneakers. Still looking good, you know, looking polished. Jenny. I found that when I started dressing like how I dress normally, how I feel comfortable, even if everyone in the audience was dressed in a suit and tie and I'm the guy on stage with jeans and a T shirt, even though I was so afraid that I would get fired, I found that it actually gave me more cred. It gave me more authority. Look at this dude on stage, not trying to be like us, who's being himself. And so I found that actually gave me more credit, but also more connection to the audience because the stuff I used to wear on stage was, frankly, a uniform. It was a layer between me and them in terms of what I'm sharing now on stages, I'm evolving, but I'm willing to share more. If the spirit is talking to me, I'm going to go with it some because I think it's being called for a reason. And sometimes we never know when that spirit, when that idea is going to come back. So I think we have to harness that further. The best thing about doing the work that we do is that there are multiple stages we get to speak on. So. Okay. Though I may need to do what they hired me to do because they saw me at conference X. The beautiful thing is I get to do my own events now, right? So I can do my. I can right now in my home, in my home office. I can do my own event where I can go any damn where the spirit takes me. Because I'm not, you know, because people are paying me directly to join the six week program or they're joining me directly for this hour long training on this subject, et cetera. So that, that's my stage. So these days I have to delineate between, bifurcate, whatever the word is I want to use between. Hey man, you got your own stages. Don't forget about that. You're not only obligated to speak on their stage, don't forget about your stage. But then guess what? Then the fear shows up. You do that video, you post it on Instagram or Facebook. Is client Y gonna see that and say, oh, we were gonna hire him, but whoa, he just talked about something there that makes us feel a little bit uncomfortable. And then maybe that means they're not a good fit. Because what I don't want to do is what a lot of people do. And I'm being a little long winded on this is it's dangerous when we start censoring ourself, when we start editing in real time. As you know, as a writer, that first draft you just gotta write. And I think it's really dangerous territory when you're trying to edit at the same time you're writing, you're trying to edit your speech at the same time you're speaking. So it's more and more I'm feeling more free to share who I am. And it's still a journey.

Well, there's so much good stuff in there. And it struck me when you were saying when you're on stage and the spirit's calling you to go a different direction or to go deeper. What I often remind myself is, well, the spirit showed up in that moment for a reason. That actually part of my work. When I'm on stage or just preparing to go on stage, I actually try to connect with the audience. Imagine them even that morning, let's say back in the day when I'd be in a hotel room, if it's virtual, same thing. And imagine what do they need today? What does this group need? And I connect and then my job, if I'm. When I'm in the moment. So I think if the spirit's talking to you, it's for a reason. Like it's showing up at that time in that way for you to be the messenger in that moment. So how far off could it be, you know, if we just trust it. And I've, I've taken some risks too where I've, I remember giving a talk at a big tech company and someone was asking a question about burnout and I was like, listen, just do these little experiments, no one's gonna know. Stop. If you check your email until 11pm for a week don't check after 10, then the next week don't check after 9 and then the next week don't check after 8. And I just kept going, going, going and I'm like, no one is going to notice. Let's see if anyone notices, you know, and the organizer's in the room and I was just thinking, hopefully she's not mad that I'm giving these little subversive tips. But I think there is a lot of burnout in corporate culture and we got to talk about it and it would be really silly to pretend that it doesn't exist and to try to answer that question in a way where it's like, well yeah, it's perfectly fine to be emailing 24 7. No, it's like I want to say you need to claim your own time, you need to claim it back because no one's going to do it for you. That's kind of the nature of the corporate environment is no one's trying to create burnout except the most nefarious executives or whatever. It just happens, it's just we live in a fast paced world and even if you're self employed or you're on social media, how many inboxes are we all managing now? I mean, it's crazy.

We're doing a disservice like you would have done that person who asked you that question a disservice if you didn't tell them the truth in that answer. And I think we're doing ourselves a disservice when we hold back again. I'm just using the word spirit loosely. We're doing ourselves a disservice when we hold back the spirit. And one of the main reasons why we're doing ourselves a disservice, Jenny, and you know, this is because we don't know when it's going to show up again. To be clear, the spirit that I'm talking about does not show up in every talk. It doesn't, it doesn't show up in every training, it doesn't show up every time I'm doing a writing session. So when it does show up, you got to ride that bad boy because you don't know when it's coming back. And some magic might come out of that. A gym may come out of that. Yeah, you may put your foot in your mouth, too. But that's the part that. That's part of living this life. Right. And the way you get the spirit shows up is by doing the work every single day. That spirit won't show up. If I hadn't done dozens of talks before that, that spirit won't show up in my writing, If I didn't write every single day for the past seven days. Of course, on the eighth day, it's going to show up because I've proven something to myself that allowed that voice, if you will, to show up. So I invite everyone to experiment more with when that shows up. Let some of it come out.

Yes, I love that. I love that. And what you said, too, about. I'm with you, that if we don't. If we don't harness that in the moment and we silence ourselves, even in very tiny ways, it adds up. There's a cumulative effect to that as well. And I think Michael, my husband, one of his mentors, told him, protect your flame. And to me, what you're describing right now of riding that wave when the spirit calls, when the spirit shows up, is about protecting your flame and taking those risks, just like you did with sharing so much of your story in this book and really putting your heart on the line and going all in and saying, this is my chance. I'm going to give it everything I have. That athlete mindset that you have is protecting your flame because you're nurturing your flame. And good things can come, even if. Right. There's a certain segment of clients that are somehow turned off. Great. They're not the ones for you anyway, because the alternative is that you shut your flame.

Yeah, I think. And I love to protect your flame. That's so important. Now I think we have to remember our flame goes another way as well. So it can be. When we. When we talk about letting our spirit come out, letting our true voice come out, it also shows up in a different way. This is a different conversation. But I briefly have to say it also means taking a stand. Sometimes I feel embarrassed, frankly. Jenny, There are times when I work in, you know, traditional nine to five corporate jobs when certain that when I was in rooms, when certain things were said that were wrong and I didn't speak up, when there are things that were being done that I disagree with that, I didn't speak up. So I think it also shows up in that regard as well, when you're willing to say, excuse me, that's not cool. What you just said violates X, Y and Z. Maybe you didn't mean any intent there, but it's my job to let you know that maybe you don't do that in a public sphere. You pull that person to the side after the meeting to do it. But I gotta say, there are times when I didn't protect my flame, frankly, based on the values that I stand for.

That's such a. What an important reminder. And that is such a skill of. Sometimes I think we get that wrong. We don't say anything. And then afterward we're like, what's that feeling in my gut? Oh, I didn't say something. I didn't speak up when I should have. And it's such a skill to practice that.

Oh, such a skill. Okay. God, this is the direction we're going in the third quarter. And you're like that. We don't, we don't want to go that direction. And even if you just speak up in that moment and you can articulate yourself and they still say, no, this is what we're doing. You said it. And that, by the way, that earned you some credibility in itself right there, that you didn't just nod your head, you actually spoke up. That's huge.

So if you could leave listeners with one parting piece of advice, let's say, for fellow business owners, what would it be?

Wow. Some advice for business owners. I would say.

I mentioned earlier that we think when we start businesses that every single day is going to be a rainbow and we're going to find that gold at the end of it and hang out with the leprechaun and give them high five or something, something like that. But that's not always the case. Most times it's going to be a blue collar kind of day. It's going to be working a shift kind of day. There will be those glimmering lights when all is magical and it feels great. And I'm so glad I'm following my passion. What we have to do every single day is recommit to what's most important. We have to remind ourselves why we decided to choose the lane that we're in. You know, again, we always, in society, we talk so much about how important it is to commit. And I agree, commitment is important. But what's even more important is recommitting every single day to what's most important. I decided to start this business of mine, whether I'm the only person or I have hundreds of employees for this reason. This is why I'm doing this. And I think we lose that flame of why we started it when we forget about that moment when we had that inkling of an idea, when we first started jotting out some notes on a Google Doc or in a notebook of why we wanted to take this risk, when everybody said, you're crazy for leaving that great job to start this other thing. So in those moments when you're wavering or it's not the perfect day, I just invite you to remind yourself why you're doing it. And two, if it's still that important to you, just to recommit to that decision.

I love that. I love that so much. You have completely recommitted and committed with this new book. It's called Stop living on Autopilot. Take responsibility for your life and rediscover a bolder, happier you listeners. Grab yourself a copy. Let's celebrate this beautiful piece of work. And that's the book. And you, Tony, you know, you're a beautiful piece of work as well.

I am a piece of work.

Where else can people connect with you if they want to keep in touch?

Come hang out with me on the Internet. Just go to theantonionevs.com some guy in Brazil has antonionevs.com and one day I'm going to catch him slipping when he doesn't renew.

I hear that someone has jennyblake.com and.

I'm gonna catch him. I got the automated thing ready to go. I'm joking. He's a brilliant artist. If he got it first, it's okay. But the AntonioNeves.com.

Well, I love it. Nice adaptation there with the V. And Tony also has a great podcast called the Best Thing with Antonio Neves.

Yeah. And your episode on that bad boy is one of the most listened to.

Oh, wow.

Of 2020 people love what you can learn from a pandemic.

What an honor. That's number 28 and I'll put it in the show notes. That's so cool to know. Thank you. Well, clearly we gotta do this again soon because we just gotta keep up with our monthly podcast cadence.

Let's do it. This is always a joy for me.

Awesome. Likewise. Thank you so much, Antonio. Thank you, everybody for listening.

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