015: Preparing to Interview the President with Liz Brunner

Hi, this is Charles Michael Davis. Toyotathon is on. So stop by your local Toyota dealer for incredible year end deals on the cars, trucks and SUVs known for their legendary reliability like the stylish and efficient Camry, the Ready for anything RAV4 or check out a rough and rugged Tacoma or Tundra, all with great financing and lease options available to qualified customers. Visit buyatoyota.com to find out more. Toyota let's go places.

This is your time. How can we earn twice as much in half the time with joy and ease while serving the highest good? That is our guiding question here at the Freetime Cafe, your home for heart based business. I'm your host Jenny Blake. Join me for conversations with authors, friends and fellow business owners as we explore ways to free your mind, time and team to do your best work. Now onto today's show.

Hello my friends. I am so excited to be here today with Liz Bruner. Liz is the CEO and founder of Bruner Communications and host of the live your Best Life podcast. She has more than 30 years of media and communications experience, expertise and leadership. Prior to launching her own business in 2013, she served as a main news anchor and reporter in Boston. During her tenure, she co anchored the number one rated 6pm newscast, covered countless breaking news stories and even landed exclusive one on one interviews with very prominent figures ranging from athletes to leaders such as President Barack Obama. So Liz has won many, many awards, is recognized as an accomplished journalist and I am just so thrilled to have you here today. Liz, welcome to the show.

Oh, thank you so much Jenny. It's great to be here with you and thank you for that lovely introduction. I appreciate it.

One of my pastimes, I think we talked about this on the interview for your show, but when I was very little, 5, 6, 7, 8, I used to write news broadcasts and record them in front of a VHS videotape recorder in my house. This is one of my activities as a kid and I just thought it was seemed like such a glamorous job to be a news anchor. And yet as I grew up in the world of journalism, it also seemed really difficult and competitive. Like it would be hard to get your foot in the door and hard to stand out. And yet you have had such a, such a luminous career in this space. And now of course you've pivoted into your own business, which we'll talk about. I'm just wondering, when did you know you wanted to be a news anchor and how the heck did you make your way to be the Evening news anchor on the 6pm slot.

Believe it or not, I did not grow up thinking I was going to be a news anchor. I actually thought I wanted to be an actress. And my mother told me I was way too dramatic. But I. Our family performed a lot. We sang. My father was a minister. We were the von Trapps of Illinois in our community. So we performed together. So performing was always a part of it. But I never really thought about being a news anchor. In fact, I went to school, to Lawrence University's Conservatory of Music. And I studied voice and music education. And I taught high school choral music for a couple of years. And I just felt like, as much as I loved doing that, and I also sang semi professionally during that time. I felt like there was something more I was supposed to do. And I couldn't explain it. And I just felt like I have to go figure out what this is. And so I left the teaching profession. I worked in retail for a few years just to pay the bills. And then I decided. I was reading this wonderful book called who's Hiring who? By Richard Lathrop. And it talked about informational interviews. I'd never heard of such a thing. And when I was Miss Illinois 1979, competing at the Miss America pageant, yes, I had done all of these things, and that's what paid for my education. But I thought, you know, I had done one television commercial. And I wondered what television might be like. I bravely and blindly called up two television stations in Champaign, Urbana, Illinois, which was where I was living at the time. And I went on informational interviews. And I wondered, could there be a job for me in television? And what would that look like? Was it in public relations? I wasn't really anticipating being on the air. Did I need to go back to school? Did I need to get another degree in communications or journalism? Long story short, Reader's Digest version. A position was created for me at the CBS affiliate at the time that didn't even exist. And I learned everything from the job, one step at a time. And I've always had this philosophy, and I know you believe this, too, that just because you've not done something doesn't mean you can't. You just have to try. And so I thought, what the heck, I'm going to try. And one thing led to another, and I was behind the scenes writing public service announcements, which I didn't know how to do. I was learning how to edit, which I didn't know how to do. I learned everything on the job, and ultimately I ended up having a 28 year career in the industry. So it wasn't overnight, to quote you saying, I had this luminous career. It's hard and it is competitive. It's incredibly competitive. But I really, I loved the learning, I loved the storytelling, and I feel very grateful that I had the opportunities and the experiences to be in that world to interview the people that I interviewed. And just to have that opportunity, I feel very blessed.

Talk about prep for a podcast. You have the perfect. The perfect background to pivot into podcasting, which I know you've done recently. I am curious, when, you know, you've landed an interview with someone like President Barack Obama, were you nervous? Did your stomach drop? Were you excited? And then how do you prepare for something like that and calm your nerves on the day of.

Well, what's interesting about that story is I wrote to the White House for four years trying to get that interview. And at that time, it was just. I didn't have a name. I didn't. I was blindly writing the media Communications office. I didn't even have a name of someone I could try and directly go to. And I just kept writing and people made fun of me in the newsroom. Oh, there goes Liz. She's right in the White House again, trying to get the interview with the president. And then finally one day I got a reply with an actual name. And, man, was I excited about that. And I latched onto that, and it ultimately led to that interview. And then what was interesting about that was that once I got the interview, people in the newsroom were like, well, why is she going? Why is she getting the interview? It's like, because I wrote the White House for four years, they thought they should be going, excuse me, excuse me. Perseverance, perseverance, perseverance. And I figured I had nothing to lose by writing, right? I had nothing to lose. And I don't care what your politics are, to interview a sitting president is an honor. And so once that came and I found out I was going, I literally, I think it was within 48 hours. I had to be there. And so, of course, now we're having meetings with the newsroom or the news director and meetings with all the producers. And what is Liz going to ask? And how many stories is she going to have to produce out of this? And then I had to go through all the Social Security stuff, you know, and making sure that I was, you know, not a criminal. I mean, it was really quite interesting to do all that background stuff. I found out that they wanted me to do a story for the 5, the 5, 36 and the 11 o' clock news, by the way. And they had to be four different stories. And by the way, you only are going to get about three, three and a half minutes with the. So I really had to be very strategic about what questions I asked. And I had, and I worked with, you know, a team of people saying, okay, what are we going to ask? Of course, the White House wanted us to ask certain questions, so we kind of wove those in. But I had my own questions I wanted to ask him. And one of them, and I saved it to the very end of the interview, Jenny, because I was so afraid that if I asked it earlier in the interview that someone in that room was going to say, okay, you're done, that's it, you can't have any more time with him. And so, yes, I was nervous, but I'll get to that question in a moment.

You knew I was gonna ask.

Yes, of course, of course. But I was nervous, but I kept telling myself, liz, you're at the White House. How many people get to do this? You're gonna interview the President of the United States. How many people get to do this? So, yes, I was nervous, but I tried to remind myself to be present in the moment and enjoy the opportunity. Now, I grew up in the islands of Hawaii, as did the President. So I thought that's going to be a great way to sort of start. So the President walks into this room, we're all set up, and he says, hello, Liz. And I say, hello, Mr. President, or should I say aloha? And he really liked that. And I felt that was just a nice way to kind of break the ice. So when we have our interview, I'm asking all these questions and I would have normally asked many more follow up questions, but given the time constraints and that I had four stories I had to create out of one interview, I had to keep going. So my last question that I asked him, that I saved to the very end was this, Mr. President, you are the President of the United States and you're a father of teenage daughters, which is harder. And of course he laughed and he said, well, he said, I'm very lucky that I have really two great daughters. And we had a lovely conversation about that. And, you know, that's what people remember most, is that question. The answer to that question.

That is such a good question. And I love that not only did you make him smile when he entered the room, but you had him leaving on a laugh too. How did that question come to you?

Well, I thought about it because I thought, what can I possibly ask him that would be a human connection? That would be an authentic connection? What would be something that maybe my. What would be something that the audience would want to know that would be a little inside his own personal life, besides all the political questions and other things that I had to ask. But what might be something on a human connection? And let's face it, we're all human beings. He's a human being, I'm a human being. Just because he's the president, you know, that's just his job. He's still a human being. First, how can I connect with him on a human level?

Yeah, I love that framing of how can you connect with him on a human level? And how can you create connection for all the viewers? So you really held both in mind and then came up with this very creative question. I love the. I love the tension of, of course, raising two teenage daughters with being president. Which one is harder? There's just so much humor in the question itself. And I can't believe it was only three and a half minutes.

I think it might have been a little longer than that. I think that's what I was allotted, but I might have gone on a little longer because it was going so well.

But nonetheless, the fact that that's what they gave you and you're thinking after four years, you land this interview and they go, okay, great, you have three and a half minutes.

I know. And it was interesting because we had to be at the White House, I think, by 8:00 clock that morning. And there were all kinds of things we had to go through and do and everything. But my interview with him wasn't until around 2:30 in the afternoon. And once we recorded it, then there was a technical issue. And you and I know, we know about tech issues, right?

Oh, we do, we do.

All of a sudden they weren't able to transpose it to some other format that we needed. And so I didn't even get the raw content of the copy till almost 4:15 or 4:30. And I had to write a story, we had to edit it, I had to get it on the air. I had to be live at the top of the show. So it's a lot of stress. And then I had to do another story for the 5:30 newscast. I had to do a different story for 6 o'.

Clock.

And then I had to do another live shot and another story at 11 o' clock that night. So it was a very long day. I wouldn't trade it for the world.

From an outsider's perspective. And like I said, I came up through journalism. More of I was a news reporter for a year in college and did hobby stuff through high school. That seems like one of those peak career moments that if you are working as a news anchor and you land an interview with the president, I can imagine there's just so much adrenaline that whole day, not just leading up to it during. Afterward. Yeah. Is there another interview that comes to mind that was just peak career, total presence, like you're one of your proudest.

Well, you're gonna laugh at this. And I'm being totally transparent and authentic with you. I am a closeted, secret, wannabe ballroom dancer.

Oh, my gosh, I love it.

And I love the show Dancing with the Stars. I sit there and I watch and I smile and I laugh through the whole show. And years ago, I was determined that I was going to do an interview with one of my favorite pro dancers at the time, which was Tony Dovolani. And he lives in Connecticut. And so somehow or another during the season we managed to get this interview with him. And again, I had to produce a million stories with it, but one of them was going to be Tony teaching me how to dance. We had an hour to learn a tango, a 30 second tango. And to this day, to dance with somebody like that is just incredible. So while it's not the President of the United States, it's one of those moments that I just absolutely love and still make me smile today. And I'm gonna take dance lessons this summer.

I've decided, as you should. There were some of those Dancing with the Stars instructors that ended up opening studios in New York City.

Yes. Oh, he has one. Yes, he does.

Well, yeah, that's what made me think of it. I think maybe his was in Soho. And anyway, you'd walk by and go, how fun. If you were actually a big fan, you could go in there.

Well, and because I had done that story with him, I'm on the board of Make a Wish here in Boston. And there was a young woman who was supposed to go to Dancing with the Stars to the show and be a guest. And she was unable to do so because she was so ill at the time that her. When she was supposed to go. And so she got taken off the list. And I said, that's just not acceptable. And I reached out to Tony and I said, can we do something here? And so we created a wish for her where she was picked up in a limousine outside of Boston with her family and Went to New York City. She did a dance with Tony. He taught her a routine, and we videotaped it, and he created this wish for her. It was so powerful. So when you talk about special stories, that was a story that came out of that. And because of my passion for dance and for Tony and his generosity to create something special. So not only did we get a story out of it, she had an amazing wish, and she has since passed. And I remember the day that she passed. It's going to bring tears to my eyes. And Tony and I were on the phone together, and I said, you know what? She's now dancing in the stars, as opposed to dancing on the stars. It's a beautiful moment.

That's so beautiful. That's so beautiful.

And make me cry. Yeah.

Oh, my gosh. Well, talk about human connection. And just the. It just seems like every thread of that story was kind of divinely guided. You know, your dream, your secret. I call it sliding doors. Career to be a ballroom dancer, and then dancing with Tony, and how fun to practice for an hour. And then this connection to make a wish. And it's as if the whole thread of connection led you to such a special moment for this woman.

And I've had many amazing stories, Jenny. And one of my most favorite things about having been a journalist and a reporter was to be able to use my platform, if you will, the platform that I was working in to share other people's stories about triumph, about rising up, about overcoming obstacles, about finding new ways to live their best life, whatever that is. And now for me to have that pod, this podcast that is of that title, I really feel like it's come full circle in many ways.

Yeah. I wanted to ask you about your podcast. I saw you had Robin Roberts on.

Yes.

Oh, my gosh. Now I get to say I'm sharing a virtual stage. You know, we joke in the speaking industry that it's like, well, if Tony Robbins had been on that stage at 9am, there are some speakers out there who will go, oh, I've shared a stage with Tony Robbins.

Yes.

Sort of.

Yes, Sort of.

Kind of. But I loved your Robin Roberts interview. We'll link to that in the show notes for listeners. First of all, it sounds like you just have great rapport, but even more so, it is so clear to me, having been a guest on your show next to the esteemed Robin Roberts as well, and you. But you just take such good care of your guests, and it's clear that you know how to pack a punch in a three and A half minute interview with the President, even if it ended up at a whopping 5. But that you're so crisp and yet robust in the questions that you ask and explore. And I know we're talking about a skill you've honed over your entire career, but I wonder, how is it for you now sort of being freed from the machinations. How do you say that word? Machinations?

Machinations, yeah.

Of a news network and all the infrastructure around it. And now you're like out on your own. I just see you flying like a bird, you know.

Thank you so much.

Thank you. I just wonder what's that like for you, shifting the context after having been in such a formal environment, even on the 6:00pm Evening news?

Well, for one, I'm not constrained by time.

That's true.

I can say and do what I want.

Free time.

I don't have to. Free time, exactly. I don't have to worry about, I know an advertiser or being controversial. Although, I mean, this show is. My show is not really controversial, but I don't have to worry about any of that. I can have a guest on whomever I want to talk to. I can talk to them for as long as I want to. I can ask them anything. So, yeah, that's very freeing and it's a lot of fun. And thank you for being so kind about the connections that I have. I think one of the things that made me a good journalist is what also makes me a good coach. And I'm sure you can understand this too, Jenny, is being a good student of human nature. Because when you have a limited amount of time with someone to connect with them, you have to figure that out very quickly. And I think because I did that well in my career as a journalist, it's also served me well in connecting with clients. And I think also I am a big proponent of preparation. And I always, I mean, people would tease me that, oh, Liz, you know, she prepares so much. And in fact, I'll give you an example in a story when we all learned that Senator Edward Kennedy had a brain tumor that was likely incurable. We didn't know how long he had. But I started right then and there prepping and I had a binder that was probably about 3 inches thick of everything that he had accomplished in the 60s, in the 70s, in the 80s, in the 90s, because I knew that once he passed, we would be on the air for hours, days, and I would have to talk and talk and talk. So I had done my homework long before his passing. And when I do my interviews with my guests on my podcast, I really try to hone in on who they are and how can I help them share their best selves, their best stories, so that other people who hear their stories can say, you know, if. If they can do that, maybe I can too. Maybe I can change my life. Maybe I can learn how to make better choices, even if it's a career change, to live my best life.

Well, that connects to what you said earlier. You corrected yourself, but you were starting to say, just because you can't do something doesn't mean you can't do something.

That's right. I mean, I actually like that.

Yeah.

I mean, yeah, just because. Go ahead. No, just because I haven't done something doesn't mean I can't. I just have to try. I mean, just. Cause I hadn't really done television other than one commercial, could I do it? Maybe. Why not try? And I remember in my first television job, they wanted me to do the weather. I was like, sure, I'll do the weather. And I went home and went, what the hell am I thinking? I don't know how to do the weather. And I would actually, how'd it go?

Cause that seems confusing, pointing to the green screen.

Well, it is. But I did several things. I started taking some courses at the University of Illinois in meteorology because I thought, okay, this is probably a good thing for me to do. I would watch the weather channel before I went in to see what they were saying, and I would study the wire copy and then to have to stand in front of that green screen. And that was just as we were transitioning over from the magnets on the wall. Now I'm really dating myself to actually using the computer green screen. In our case, it was a blue screen, not a green screen. And for fun, one day when it was Halloween, royal blue, red raincoat. And so I thought for fun on Halloween, one night when I was doing the weather, I put on my royal blue raincoat. And so all you could see was my head and my hands on the screen and maps all over my body. So I had a good time with that. But it is hard. And I had to learn how to do that. And we had a three women weather team, Jenny. I think we were probably the only ones in the country who had three women doing the weather at the time. Pretty fun.

I love it. That sounds like so much fun.

The other thing is, it was one of the best training grounds for real live television. Because there's no script, there's no script. I learned a lot.

I can imagine. I love seeing the bloopers. If you go on YouTube and go to like news, I bet you have a great. Do you have a blooper reel?

I did not, but I know one exists somewhere.

My favorite thing, my last few speaking reels. Not my current one, but I used to put bloopers at the end because bloopers just make me laugh so much.

That's a great idea.

Yes.

Just steal it.

You should. And like, I should. I wish I would have more bloopers that I could put in the new one. We'll be right back just after this. With Venmo Stash.

A tag on one hand and ordering.

A ride in the other means you're.

Stacking cash back with Venmo Stash. Get up to 5% cash back when.

You pick a bundle of your favorite brand.

Earn more cash when you do more with Stash Venmo Stash terms and Exclusions apply.

Match $100 cash back per month. See terms at Venmo me stashterms.

You brought up that you're a classically trained vocalist and even. Yeah, I love that song in your voice. And you went to the Lawrence University Conservatory of Music. So now, of course, that's going to serve you as a news broadcaster, which I do feel there's a certain broadcaster voice. I wonder if you trained for that. And now as a podcaster. You know, I'm obsessed with podcasts and I know so many people who are. There's a new book that just came out called this is the Voice by John Colapinto. Have you heard of it?

I have not, but I'm definitely going to look into that.

Yeah, it's brand new. I'll put the link in the show notes. And he says that surprisingly, our voices are incredibly unique, just like a fingerprint, and that they communicate a vast span of data about each of us. And our voice is so unique. And he even says there's this line I love from this end of the book review that I'll link to in the notes. He said it may not be over the top to suggest that the soul in some sense resides in the larynx.

I like that.

I'm curious to hear your thoughts on training. So did you train to have a newscaster voice? And then now as a podcaster, you know, because anyone who's here listening obviously listens to podcasts. But what you do think how. How you see our voices, even spoken voice, not even singing. But I love what you're singing. How does it Communicate our soul, our spirit.

There's a lot of questions in there.

I know, but choose your own adventure. I always say I just put a big fork in the road and go pick one. Whichever sounds exciting.

Yes. Yeah. First of all, I believe that our voices are the one instrument we all play. Unless there's a medical issue, all of us has a voice. And each one of us, each of our voices is unique and I love the connection to the soul. I completely agree with that philosophy and approach. And our voices convey emotion. And when I'm working with clients, one of the things I'm always working on with them is how can you convey emotion through your voice and the words that you use? And it's really important for people to understand that our voices are one of the most powerful and fundamental tools we have to communicate. And how we use our voices is so important. Whether it's personal relationships, whether it's you're up on a public stage or professionally, your voice matters. And when I'm working with people on helping them fine tune how to use this instrument, it's imperative. And yes, I've had a lot of singing training, but I've not had vocal training to speak. But because I've had so much training as a singer and they do cross over, it's about the breath. It's about how you use your voice so that you have depth and richness and resonance to your voice, and that comes from the breath. So teaching people how to use their voice and what tools they have to use their voice is also important. And when you're sharing a story, personal story, professional story, how you use your voice conveys so much information. So I do think connecting to the soul is wonderful. And when you talk about the broadcaster voice, I remember when I was first starting out in the industry and, you know, they would bring in coaches for us to work with and they would, you know, and I was like, I need to have an anchor voice, whatever that is, I don't really know right now, but I have to have this anchor voice. And it took me, I don't know how many years to finally go, Liz, just be yourself, because that's what matters. And to try to sound like I had an anchor voice was ridiculous. And, I mean, it just. It's so funny to me because I think as a newbie in the industry and wanting to sound professional and wanting to sound like I could command the anchor desk, I think I tried to have some sort of anchor voice, but, no, I did not trade. Yeah.

Can you give us a read of your early anchor voice.

Well, I mean, I think I sort of just did a little bit ago, but I really don't know. But I just remember the coach saying to me, liz, just be yourself. And I defiantly said to him, but I am. And I'm thinking to myself now, all these years later, no, I was trying so hard to be that anchor, as opposed to just being my best authentic self and just doing, you know, just learning that concept, you know, And I laugh thinking when I left the industry, you know, about eight years ago now, after having been in it for 28 years, I kind of laughed because that's when I got to be my most confident self. I didn't even care. I mean, it's not that I didn't care, but I could just be me. I could just be me.

It's amazing how that sounds simple. Just be yourself.

Oh, God.

You know, but it does take a lifetime, and especially within any given medium, it's one thing to try to be yourself on camera. What I love about podcasts is there's really nowhere to hide. Your personality will shine through, like it or not, unless you are totally stilted, pre scripted. And for that reason, there's a lot of scripted shows that I don't really like. I mean, I like the scripted storytelling ones we crashed is one example where they're telling a story and it's journalistic, but if it's a. A host like you or me just reading from a script, I kind of just can't stand that.

Yeah.

And at the same time, it's hard to be yourself and. And sometimes, of course, I'll get podcaster voice, too, where it's like, hello, everybody, welcome back to the show. And it's like, I would just never talk like that in my regular life. And so it's the removing the layers from the voice or from our personality to get to that authentic place.

Absolutely. And I think that's the beauty of quote, unquote, getting older. I'm not going to say old, but getting older is that acceptance of who we are, our authentic self, and owning who we are. And that's never easy. And sometimes some people say, well, that sounds like confidence. Well, it is in part, but there's an ebb and flow to confidence. And I think there's. We all have a confidence barometer, and some days it's really high and some days it's low. And that's just life. It's not like we, oh, I'm suddenly confident. I'm going to be confident the rest of my life. No there's an ebb and flow to it and accepting part of that ebb and flow, I think, is about owning who we are and being our best authentic selves and sort of being willing to take down those walls. And that's not easy. That's not easy.

I completely agree. I often think about self trust has always been easier for me than self love. I mean, when I was younger, now we're cool, me and myself, we're cool.

You know, you like each other now.

Yeah, Like, I'm not at war with myself of just not being good enough or any of the enoughs. It's all. It's, we're chill over here. However, confidence is a different thing. And for me, I just. I don't know, I guess there's some baseline level of confidence that any one of us has. And the moment I stopped trying to have confidence and just accepted that there would be some days and interviews, which people have heard me say a lot on my own shows, but where I feel completely awkward or I hang up and I know exactly where I stepped on myself or my guest, and I. I feel awkward. And so what. I mean, it's kind of like just so many of the themes you've been sharing that I do agree with you that confidence ebbs and flows and it builds as we get more practice runs under our belt. Like, yes, I still get nervous before going on stage, but not that nervous.

Right.

It's fine. I've done it a million, a million times. I wonder, is there anything in your life right now beyond ballroom dancing where you don't feel confident just simply because you're new at it?

Yeah, writing my book.

Oh, yeah. Well, tell us about that.

Oh, I don't even know where to begin. I have a number of chapters that have been written. There is more to write, and I've just signed on with a publishing company and a writing coach. And so it's going to be interesting to see how this evolves.

But.

But it takes a lot of courage, I think, to write a book. I think you've written so many already. I'm so proud and jealous and envious that you've written. And I often say that I hate writing, but I love having written.

Oh, yes. That's.

Do you understand what I mean when I say that? Yes. So I think it's really hard because at least in my case, and in somewhat in yours too, from the books you've written, is that it is a very vulnerable experience, especially if you are incorporating your personal stories, memoir, if you will, and to Sort of be willing to go there. So, yeah, I'm a little nervous about all of that right now, but it's okay. I believe that this is what I'm supposed to do, and I have to trust that.

The stories that need to come out will come out.

Absolutely. And as you said, I love how early in your career you said you bravely and blindly.

Yes.

And I think a book is the same thing. It's a little bit of blind to the process of what it's going to involve. And then brave in the sense that, as you said, you feel called. You do have a sense that it's the right thing to do. I will tell you I'm in the completed first draft stage, and I will pass through so many moments of going, this book is either great and it's really going to help people, or it's complete and utter garbage and I've written the wrong book and the whole thing should be scrapped and I should just keep moving, like, save everyone the trouble, you know, and so these. These wild swings, because it is so vulnerable, especially when you're showing it to people like your writing coach or even the publisher you're working with when it starts to get airtime for the very first moments, and it still is in that totally incoherent, new, awkward stage. Oh, my go.

Yes, it is. And it's scary and unknown and, you know, people have told me for years, oh, you should be writing a book. You have such a great story. And I'm like, really? You really want to hear my story?

Yeah, we'll see.

Well, kudos for being on the journey. And I'll share with you what someone said to me, which is that she's an astrologer. In fact, her name is Jen Rachiopi. She was just on the Pivot podcast. She said, you can talk to your book. When she told me that as I was working on Pivot, that was so helpful. Whenever I got stuck, I would just talk to the book and say, what do you need? And picture it.

I love that.

What's funny is I used to picture Pivot. I used to visualize it flying. What would give this book wings. And now, in free time, in the new brand, all the graphics have wings, because the F for free time is like a wing.

So I love that. I love that.

That really?

I'm going to use that.

Yes.

What do you want me to say?

Yeah, hey, book, what do you need from me today? What do you need today, right now, at this stage in the process? Because it's also really talk about being present, which you mentioned earlier, you have to. Because if you get. If you look ahead to every next step across the whole publishing timeline, it gets too overwhelming.

Daunting.

It's daunting, yes. Well, I'm really excited that you're working on your book. Kudos.

Thank you.

Yeah. That's so thrilling. One question that I ask everybody on this show is if you could give listeners permission to drop something or do something differently, if you could just write them a permission slip, what would it be for?

Own who you are. And that's a tall order that many of us do not give ourselves permission to do. And when I'm working with clients, in particular women, I think some men as well, just allowing themselves to be who they are, to own who they are and accept who they are. Give yourself permission, forget about what other people's expectations are of you.

Forget about maybe what some of the expectations are of yourself, and give yourself permission to be who you are at your best self.

That is so good. I could just picture own who you are, capital O, capital W and put it on a bumper sticker. That's brilliant. See, I would listen to you if you riffed for a solo episode on your show. I know you mostly do interviews, but own who you are. That's so good. I love this permission slip. Let me. Let me cheat and ask you a follow up question, because I think probably listeners to this show would know, okay, yes, be who I am. But what do you think gets in the way? And what have you found is you said part of it. Like just every year we get older, we can live a little more in the life that we have and be grateful for it. So what gets in the way? And then we. Is there one piece of advice you could give to be more of who we are, to own more of who we are?

Well, I think expectations get in the way, as I said a moment ago, that we feel like there's some measuring stick that we need to live up to somebody's expectation of how we're supposed to be or who we're supposed to be, both professionally and personally. And I know with your Pivot podcast how many people have made that shift. And even in your book, you talk about people who've made that shift. I feel like I made the shift, you know, from high school teacher to a career in journalism, to giving myself permission to say, let's go do something else. You know, I'm not retired. Let's go do something else. And so I do think that expectations get in the way. And sometimes People will say, and I'm sure you've heard this in all your interviews for your podcast as well as your book. Yes, there are realities of responsibilities that people have that are real factors of, well, maybe I need to stay in this job because I have to deal with X or I have to deal with Y. I can't make that change. So I get that. But it is hard. And then how much of that is an expectation you're putting on yourself versus an expectation from someone else? So I do think that that's a really hard thing to work through. I think for myself, in terms of how I try to maneuver some of those expectations. I do a lot of journaling. I was thinking about this the other day. I believe that I have been journaling now for, I'm gonna say, at least 35 plus years.

And for me, it's one of the ways that I work through. It's very cathartic for me, and it's all completely sort of free form. I mean, it's just stream of consciousness. Whatever comes to my mind, I write down. And I used to write them in journals, but I can't read my own handwriting anymore. I put it in my computer. And also because when I was traveling so much pre Covid for all my clients and crisscrossing the country, it's like I can't carry one more thing in my suitcase. I mean, I wasn't gonna check my luggage, so I had to start putting it in my computer. But for me, that's one of the ways that I kind of work through all of that and really try to understand who I am and learn about who I am and what's important in my life. And it was about a year and a half ago that one of my business coach that I was working with, she said, what is your vision for your life? And I really hadn't thought about it from that perspective in a long time. And through numerous conversations, what I came came up with was that my goal, both personally and professionally, is I want to teach. I would love to motivate and inspire people. And it all comes down to helping them figure out how to live their best life. Whatever that is for them, whatever that means for them. And it's a different definition for everybody. But whatever that is for you, own it and love it and accept it.

Thank you. That's so beautifully said. And for listeners, you can check out Liz's podcast of that exact name, your best life, Liz. Where else would you like to send people before, of course, your book is out.

Oh, thank you so much for asking that question. Because, you know, one of the things that I'm grateful for, for the pandemic, if you can think about it like that, is that it did get me off that treadmill of being on a plane every week. And I suddenly did have time not only to start writing the book, but I also developed an online public speaking course. It's my master flagship public speaking course and it's how to be a rock star public speaker. And this is to learn all of the basics and fundamentals as well as so much more about how to be a rock star public speaker for any setting. And I liken public speaking to what we're doing right now. When you have a one on one meeting with somebody, if you have to stand on a stage, if you have to be on a panel, if you have to give a wedding toast, all of that to me is public speaking. And so I created and developed a course and I have to say I'm really proud of it. And I'm. I have a pretty high bar for myself, I have to admit. I'm not a perfectionist, but pretty close to it. And I really am proud of this course. It has six different modules, 19 different topics, a 60 plus page workbook, and it's, it's a really good course. So you can find it@bruneracademy.com so that's where people can find it. Or you can find it on my website, which is lizbruner.com, but pretty much bruneracademy.com and I would love for people to check it out. There are a bunch of other courses and I'm adding courses. I'm also writing more courses, but that's my big flagship one right now.

Amazing. Thank you. I'll throw that in the show notes too. And I did, I did deliver a toast at my brother's wedding and I told him he was getting like at that time, $5,000 keynote worthy wedding toast.

Absolutely. And you have such a great voice too. Speaking of voice, I love it.

Thank you. Thank you so much. Well, I had one session with a voice coach and I realized how much there is to learn and I should be doing more. But yeah, what she mentioned about breathing, she's like, you're not breathing well.

It's amazing how many people don't breathe properly and effectively when it comes to public speaking.

In podcasting, I hold my breath all the time because I don't want breath sounds, but it makes it so much worse.

But you can edit that out. Jenni. Come on.

I know. And then. Then it's my pet peeve. When I hear myself breathing on solo episodes, I'm like, oh, God, there are those breaths. And then she just like you. It's so funny how you have these little sing songs that are so beautiful. And she said you actually kind of need to sing your words so that you don't have vocal fry. Like, I just had fry.

Right. People don't know what fry is, but.

You don't have that. You're like.

Well, it's.

You're, like, singing your words.

You know what's funny is when I'm working with people and teaching them how to use their voice properly, it's very hard for me to be monotone and very hard for me to demonstrate vocal fry, because those two things are so opposite, outside of my world. But I have to sometimes talk like this in order to explain what vocal fry is. And it usually comes from you're not breathing properly or you're. And if you sound monotone or if you sound monotone like this, it's because you have no pace and no vocal variety and no rhythm to your. I can't do it, Jenny.

That's so funny, Liz. Thank you for sharing that there. I could do fry, because I do it all the time. I think that's really funny. I know. I just. I want to go back to what you said, which is that our voices are the one instrument we all play.

Yes. And that is learn to play it. Learn to play that instrument.

I love that. I just love that. And it is an instrument we can learn. We use it every day. It's like the breath. That's one of the only, if not the only, body function that's both voluntary and involuntary. Someone told me that once in a yoga class. Yes.

But you know what's also interesting about the voice and thinking of it as an instrument. Other instruments. You sit down at a piano and you play, or you pick up drumsticks and you play the drum, or you pick up an instrument like a saxophone. So it's. It's not a part of your body, whereas your voice is so everything that's happening to you emotionally, consciously, or unconsciously. Physically. Ill. Physically. Well, it impacts your voice. It's a part of your body.

That's so true. And even when you're upset. Oh, yeah. It's like you can't hide. That's the thing. Right. About the voice. And that's why I always love doing coaching over the phone. And I don't mind podcasting. I don't want video on because there is so much nuance. A quavering voice. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. When you're a little bit sick, it all comes through. People even say, oh, it sounds like you're smiling always when you're podcasting. And I'm like, that's because I am.

You can hear a smile through somebody's voice. That's what people don't understand. And when you can't see someone and you can only hear their voice, their voice now is 100% of the communication. If you're in person, for example, 65% is body language. The other 35% is verbal. 65% is non verbal. But when you can't see someone that nonverbal, that 65% is gone. Guess what? Your voice is now 100% of your communication. So use it as a tool. As a communication tool. That's what it is.

Yes, yes, yes.

I'm gonna start singing.

Yay. Thank you so much, Liz. Thank you for sharing your beautiful voice with us and your stories, and I just am really excited for your book. You'll have to keep us posted.

I will.

And listeners, I'll throw all these wonderful links in the show notes, including that we're gonna try to try to find the clip of you and Tony ballroom dancing. If it's findable, I hope that.

I hope it's findable. I probably have it somewhere buried in a box, but.

Yeah, well, we'll see if they. If it made it into the digital archives online. Then we'll throw that in because I can't wait to watch that.

Oh, it's dreamy.

Yeah, it sounds like it. Amazing. Thank you, Liz. Thank you so much, everybody for being.

Here, listening, and thank you for having me. Jenny, it's just a delight to spend time with you. Thank you so much.

Likewise, if you've listened this far, you get a gold star. Thank you. Word of mouth is the most joyful way we can grow this show, and it helps us land interviews with the luminaries and insightful guests that you would most love to hear from. Please send this episode to a friend who might find it helpful. And for show notes and related links from this episode, visit itsfreetime.com while you're there, make sure you're subscribed to the Time well spent newsletter. You'll get instant access to to my Tech Toolkit, a continually updated list of all the software I use, along with the total monthly spend to run my business where no one works full time, Even me. Visit itsfreetime.com join Remember, you are running the show. It's time for radical reimagining and everything is up for grabs. Let it be easy, let it be fun and build with love.