079: Behind the Launch with Antonio Neves (Part 2)

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This is your time. How can we earn twice as much in half the time with joy and ease while serving the highest good? That is our guiding question here at the Freetime Cafe, your home for heart based business. I'm your host, Jenny Blake. Join me for conversations with authors, friends and fellow business owners as we explore ways to free your mind, time and team to do your best work. Now onto today's show.

Hello friends. Welcome back to Free Time. We are here today with part two of the book launch conversation with my dear friend Tony Neves. If you haven't yet, I suggest listening to episode 77. That's where we kick off the launch week festivities.

And he is such a good interviewer.

He's a lifelong journalist, an author, a podcaster in his own right. I just love Tony's curiosity and depth of questions and reflection. I mean, if you listen for no other reason than to see somebody truly in their zone of genius, a great journalist, a great friend, great listener. I'm so grateful for the time that he spent with me to really pull.

Out not just the book itself, but.

The story behind the book and the whole life evolution, as he puts it. That's really what we get into here today. And it's the most vulnerable podcast that I have ever recorded. I'm saying this now in hindsight, in six and a half years of podcasting.

So here it is.

I'm nervous to share it with you, but I hope that it serves you in some way. Thanks so much for listening everybody. And now onto part two of the launch conversations with Tony Neves.

I want to go here, I want to pivot for. Look at that. I want to pivot for a quick second. Even though we're talking about free time and you said something about how you've had good friends that, you know, remind you to bet on yourself, they remind you to invest in yourself. You mentioned Seth Godin, who we can see a quote from him about the book on the back of the book, etc. What's been your approach to creating like relationships with these amazing allies you have in your life? It's fair to say that you have so many people that straight up vouch for you and everything that you do. How did you bring these folks into your life?

Yeah, my first response is, I don't know.

I feel very lucky.

And hat tip to MBS as well. He's also in the book Michael Bungay Stanier. He told me to treat that house sale like venture capital and if I was going to invest it, what return would I need to see? And he has always also really pushed me to go for it and bet on myself and go big and go indie. And so I just love how he helped me frame that and my friend Edward as well. How do I form these relationships? I honestly don't know, Tony.

I know that's funny to say that I'm not trying to be overly humble.

But I'm so introverted that I never really feel like talking on the phone.

This is like kind of a sore.

Spot in my life because I feel that I should be better about keeping in touch with so many people from so many walks of life. So the ones who stick around and are my friends and mentors and friendors. I don't know. I can only just say that they will stick around no matter how often we talk. And it must be because of the connection. And I always try to show up for those people too, whether it's with my energy, my feedback or my ideas that can be helpful to them. And I'm trying to be sort of mindful of how I talk about that because it's not that these relationships are so transactional, but it is the greatest gift when I can help a friend tour in some way. Like if I can make their life easier. I mean, this is really my life's purpose. That's the whole impetus behind every book, is trying to help people's lives be easier. But I think these friend tours that you described, these long term relationships, is just a mutual sense of heart connection, energy exchange and upliftment and also utility. That's weird to say that, but I love, I love a relationship where we can brainstorm and go back and forth and give advice and support. Like I cherish those. I really do. So I bet anyone who's still sticking.

Around, you know this some amount of energetic connection and shared mutual utility. I don't know, but you'll answer that better than me.

Well, I think a lot of people will hear this probably. I know you've talked about this. A lot of people make the assumption that someone like you or someone like me are extroverts. They see us on stages or on podcasts. But funny enough, like you said, we're introverts and we have to recharge, and we know where we get our energy from. My hunch is the reason why you have so many amazing allies in your life is because. And I want to talk about this because you're a coach as well. Because when Jenny Blake shows up, I think it's fair to say things get better. Like when you show up in a room, when you show up in a conversation. And I'm not just saying that. Like, I want everyone to think right now. Think about that one person you know in your life, colleague, family member. When they show up, things get worse. We all know that person that can show up to a party or meeting at work, you made all this progress, and they show up like, oh, no, we just lost all the progress we just made. But then there are some people when the door opens up to a party or a business meeting, you think, oh, things just got better because they're here. Jenny, I think you're one of those people as well. And I think, funny enough, as we were talking about the design of your book, your book makes me feel better as well when it shows up. So my hunch is you have a capacity going back to your heart utility, trying to add as much value as possible to others, that when you show up, things get better and people want you around. So I just wanna make sure you know that.

Well, I really appreciate that. Right back at you.

That's why you're here today, because your energy lights up every room. And speaking of the book. Yeah.

I see my book as a little ambassador that I go inward into the cave, and I'm like, mia. But then the book becomes the little ambassadors that are out in the world.

And I had a friend jokingly tell.

Me my love language is not necessarily always calling, texting, replying very quickly. My love language is that I'll put.

You in my book. That's true. So, like, Tony, you and I, you.

Know, we haven't talked that much like we do. We always connect probably once or twice a year.

And I love your little texts and.

Our exchanges and everything.

And once you're in the next book.

It'S like, that's how I show love, is really trying to thoughtfully. And where I can plant the seeds for my friends as well.

Yeah, it feels good to be mentioned in a book, and I was honored that you mentioned me in there. But also, one thing I love about your books also is that they're practical. It's not just you saying, sharing random stuff. You give real anecdotes, real examples, et cetera, that people are gonna see in this book. Speaking of the book, I wanna back up a little bit, if that's okay, because we talk about chapters, right? Every book has chapters, but everyone's life has chapters as well. And this is gonna be a big question for you, so you can unpack it the way you want. But I'm really curious about the chapters that allowed for this book, because I'm curious if we look at your welcome to college, of course we look at your work with Pivot, and now we look at free time. Right now in my brain, I'm like, I wonder what the next book is going to be. When you think about that journey that we're seeing from one to two to three. So tough question to answer. What are some of the chapters that allowed for this book to exist?

Well, I love thinking about life as chapters.

My friend Christine said it to me where she's like, do you feel that an entire book just closed in your life and a next book has started? Not to me, and not even specifically about writing books, but each of us, as we live, we have certain chapters and then sometimes we start the next volume that there's such a massive shift. I bet that happened for you too.

When you had your twins.

Yo, chapters came to an end quick. Yeah, it was a brand new book. Let's go.

Yeah. I mean, every book I write comes from my own struggles. And I feel that if I go through something the hard way because I'm such a bookworm, I will search far and wide. I will read hundreds of books. I know what's out there. I think if I have any superpower, it's just that how much I read, I know what's missing because I'm going through something and there's not the good resource that I wish I had. So life after college, adulting, that wasn't even a word back then. So it was the struggles of taking leave of absence from school and just not knowing what the hell I was doing. Pivot was the struggles of navigating change and the pressure of doing that as a small business owner solopreneur. And when I didn't know what was next because I didn't want to talk about life after college forever. It was a horrible feeling. And I felt just delusional and not cut out for the level of stress and pressure and tension. And so navigating change became my question. How do we get better at this and figuring out what's next? When in that case, I was the sole provider for myself. And then, ironically enough, like in 2016, six months before the book came out, that's when I met Michael the man. You know, true artist personality type. The only change is constant with dating Michael. You know, like his ideas, his personality, his Personas, his interests.

Like, what I say about marrying an artist is you will never be bored.

A day in your life.

Like, if there's one thing you'll never be bored.

And yet it was this challenge to me because I had been single for so long, so now I had to really live my message of pivot and navigating change because I was in this relationship. And that began as well, I think, planted seeds for free time because finally I was making room for another person.

In my studio apartment, in my life.

Trying to navigate my business while nurturing a relationship and navigating the whole emotional rollercoaster of stages of relationship, which I never felt very equipped for or very good at. And so free time that's coming out five and a half years later is also an expression. The chapter of my life of trying to juggle so many things. Trying to juggle running a business with earning a living while not being stressed out, while nurturing a marriage and having our puppy and navigating the pandemic and the crisis that's happening in Michael's home country. And free time is the way like that. You know, I kind of borrow a line from Thich Nhat Hanh. In the beginning, there is no way to happiness. Happiness is the way. I don't think that free time is something that we earn. We just have to live it and then and experience it and protect it. And that's just so important to me because I don't know why, but I've always had a sense of my mortality and my loved ones and I could die tomorrow. So I think part of me, every chapter is about to want to share what I've learned and then also strategies to just ease the burdens and ease the challenges and ease the struggle a little bit so that we can all be more present. Because I just think there's so much stress to get caught up in, whether it's the news cycle or social media.

As you mentioned at the start, like.

Life is stressful enough as it is. So to the extent we can let go of our self imposed stress, myself included, that's where the chapters that you.

Mentioned of each book come from.

Yeah. What I love about your answer is it made me think about now. I love when I read something or I hear something and it challenges everything that I know or that I've shared before.

What's coming up for you?

You know, it's funny because. And by the way, your book is helping me reshape my business because I have to. I have twins. The only real asset I have is time. You know, like you said, we have a lack of that. You know, likewise, I've been aware of my mortality. I think we all are. With all the craziness happening and during the pandemic, you know, we're talking about superpowers with our kids one day. Like, oh, what do you think your superpower is? And my son said, oh, I can fly. And, you know, I didn't tell him he couldn't fly. He doesn't know. He's five. My daughter said, oh, she's so and so. Her superpower. Mommy's superpower is this. And I was like, what's daddy's superpower? And one of the kids said, working. His superpower is working. And in a way, I laughed, but it broke my heart at the same time because I want more time to spend with them. That's all we got. So where I've been challenged over the years is I've always had this joke when someone says, I want to start my own business so I have more free time. And I'm like, bro, more free time. You're going to have substantially less free time if you start your own business. Which I knew. But now I'm seeing there's another way to approach, you know, free time, to create that free time, that margin that we all need and that we all deserve as well. So hearing you share that just opens up a lot for me.

I'm curious, you said you're reshaping things. Talk about nerding out. Let's nerd for a minute. What kinds of things? What kinds of shifts are you starting to make or what little experiments are you running?

Well, a couple of things. One, I was working with someone last year and I lost that person. And so now I'm really, really intentional about building my delightfully. Is it tiny or small?

Tiny. Gotta get that alliteration.

My delightfully tiny team with intention. The clear word there is intention. Because I find that intention will save me a lot of time and will save me a lot of headaches overall. These aren't full time people, you know, these are contractors, things I outsource to. And I got some of these people in my life right now. I've never been really good about shaping my week. You know, each week is could be very different with travel and all that, you never know. And, you know, I'm big on controlling what I can control. So now there are only specific days that I do podcasts. There are specific days when I'm doing my reading, when I'm doing my creating different things. There's only specific days when I'm taking like informational meetings or phone calls with people, specific time frames, et cetera. I have a clear stop time. There are systems in place, so it's not like I'm doing everything from scratch the first time around like it used to be. So, you know, there are a variety of things that I'm doing and a lot of that is, you know, probably because of my interactions with you over the years. And this book is helping as well. So that's some of the things that I'm doing.

Thank you for sharing that.

I'm also curious. You were on the road pre pandemic, doing a ton of keynote speaking, and that can be really taxing. There's a lot to like about earning income that way. The time to revenue ratio of the time on stage is definitely good, but of course there's a lot of ramp up and wind down. And it's a big effort. It's a big effort. It's not just the hour on stage. How are you thinking about it in this moment, even if you haven't solved it yet, of knowing how busy you could get with keynote speaking and just that? I think a lot of business owners struggle with. They don't want to say no to things because they're like, oh, eat what you kill. You know, get it while you can. It's kind of feast or famine with saying yes versus saying no or raising your prices or knowing how to find that limit for yourself. Because I think sometimes people struggle with not wanting to turn away business just to create free time.

Well, I have a clear price points now. I mean, there was a time when if my price point was 20k for a keynote and someone said, we can do 14, 5, I negotiate, go back and forth. And now the price is the price. Like the price is the price. And it's funny enough, Jenny, when I'll tell someone like, hey, well, our fees are this amount. If that doesn't work for you, the good news is I can refer you to three other people who can work within your price range. That right there is magic. When I'm like, yo, I'm not your guy because I cost this much, but I know three people who can do it all Of a sudden, they're like, we just found that 6,500 extra. We're okay, Antonio, we want you. Like, there's something about doing that. So I made my speaking prices. My prices. I'm not negotiating. If you're working with me as a coach, you're going to pay a premium each month. There's no negotiating. I know what. I'm great at what I do, and I don't want to build up resentment with any client based on the negotiating and wasting time and energy. Going back and forth to your point about the past two years, like, you, revenue just was. I was 2020. I was off. It was projected to be my best year ever. Like, numbers I never would have imagined I would make, you know, as a business owner. Then, of course, everything happened. And then I had something happen this fall. Back in September, I tore a hamstring off of a bone and I had to have surgery to reattach it. So again, it was like, forget mortality. It's like, dude, if you can't walk because of surgery, there's a pandemic. How are you going to make money? How are you going to provide for your family? So this will be a conversation you and I are going to talk about offline. I've set a goal for myself, Jenny. I want to build a business that in three to five years, I can sell.

Ooh, I love it.

Because what I have right now, you can't sell what I have right now. And so I'm excited. I see the vision. Whether it happens in three years or five years, I know what those vehicles are going to do. They're going to iterate, they're going to change. But I'm so excited because, one, I have to be the artist. One, I have to think about things differently. One, I have to stop working in it. I have to work on it. I'm going to have to get expertise from individuals like you. And I'm really good at isolating sometimes. So that's what I'm excited about. Not to find myself in a situation like where if I have have a bad leg injury from playing beach football. By the way, I caught the ball, everyone. When I got there, I caught the ball.

I was gonna ask how you got.

That, but you got it.

Amazing. Beach football. Who thought?

Or a pandemic.

How did it tear off the bone? Like, from what happened? I can't even imagine.

I'm not super fast. It's just one of those random things.

Wow.

But I was in bed for quite a long time in a brace and I was like, nope, not again. You're gonna. Yeah. Does that mean I'll stop speaking?

Did you hit, like, mental depression during that time where you just thought. Because I think that could really, really.

Be a downer of just when you.

Don'T have your health and your physicality, especially someone like you. And that must have been quite a moment of reckoning as well. As a business owner, as a person.

With something we don't think enough about, at least I didn't think enough about as a business owner. Like, yo, what happens if you have to tear your ACL or if you have to have surgery or say there's a family member that gets sick for an extended period and you have to. What are you going to do? I didn't have, like, any disability insurance, something like that. To answer your question, Jenny, I was in a funk. Like, I was in the doldrums. I couldn't do what I normally do. I couldn't be the guy that smokes, you know, amazing meals on the weekend on the smokers. When I'm in town, I take my kids to school every single day. My wife will tell you I'm independent to a fault. Having to have her, you know, help me get in the shower, help me go to the bathroom, which is, oh, my God, like, you know, humbling experiences, things that used to take five minutes. Yeah, I was in a funk. Thank goodness. I had a dear friend. Thank goodness for dear friends. Someone that emailed me a long email, and they basically said, you are about to meet your demons. Just so you know, this quiet time, be careful. You are about to meet your demons. And they basically said, have a conversation with them. Meet them, meet them. So you can go through it and you can get past it, but there's a reason why this is happening. And there were some demons that I met during that time that when you're. When you're busy, when you're just busy with busy work, you don't get to have those conversations. You don't get to confront those things. But when you're isolated and it's quiet, those fears, those different things they show up, those holes in your business where your systems aren't really working, boy, did they show up. And so those demons say, what's up, man? Let's talk. And I was like, let's talk, let's talk. And we talked and we got through it. And I'm jogging again, so here we are.

How did that person know to send you that? Had they dealt with an injury?

Specifically, they had dealt with an injury. From skiing, like a really bad injury that left them in a bed for a while. And our worst thoughts can come to us during this time. Challenges, et cetera. Feeling less than woe is me. What am I going to do? Fear is like yo, how am I going to provide all that? Et cetera. And so yes, but it was real and I'm not mad it happened. I'm glad I had those conversations with the demons that we all can do a really good job of ignoring.

We'll be right back just after this.

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Can I flip the script back to you for a quick second?

Oh, sure, sure.

And I just want to say you did a beautiful job as well talking through that time on your podcast, the Antonio Neves Show. Like, I really appreciated your honesty.

I followed it a little bit from.

Afar just listening and appreciate how open you were.

Well, it's interesting, I find the more vulnerable I get with my audience, the deeper connections that I build, sometimes the more revenue that I make, et cetera. I wanna make sure everyone knows that being vulnerable doesn't mean you share everything. But you're authentic and you're real. So I'm curious about you. One thing conversations we've had is I've loved watching your journey. So when you read welcome to college, when you read pivotal, when you read free time with each book, I've seen more of Jenny. I've seen more of the spiritual side, more of, I'll say the spiritual side of you that wasn't always out there front and center. So which for me, I think there's a trusting you've had in yourself that you're willing to share some of these things, maybe even quotes you include in the book, maybe you wouldn't have included five, you know, 10 years ago in a book from certain people. Is there anything in the book that makes your heart beat a little fast, that people are going to learn about you, something that you share that may be a little bit raw or vulnerable, that maybe you wouldn't have shared or talked about a few years back that now you're sharing.

Oh, my goodness.

I can't believe this is why you're a lifelong journalist.

Wow.

T. Good question.

Yes, there is something that I had never shared publicly.

Wow.

I can't believe you're asking, because I've never said it out loud on the podcast, But I share in the introduction that I, to this day, struggle with an OCD disorder called trichotillomania, where I pull my hair out. And this is a commentary on stress and my passion for trying to reduce it in myself and others that people will say, oh, I'm so stressed, I'm pulling my hair out. But it manifested for me as a teenager.

Whew. It's hard to talk about even. I can't believe it.

Wow. Yeah. This is your Oprah moment, you know.

Anyway, I've done it since I was a teenager. That was my outlet.

And I still do it to this day. It's like biting your nails. It's like, you know, anyone who has a habit that you don't even like, but it's so unconscious. And for me, it's there. And the reason I shared it in the book was it's just real. It's like a real fact of.

My life. And.

Nobody knows, you know, like Michael, my husband, knows, because if my hair. If I put my hair down and I put it in a certain way, you can tell, like, if I go to get a haircut, I have to explain it.

I was kind of smart enough to do it in a way that it's hidden, but very few people know this. And why did I put it in the book and why am I talking about it now? I think it's such a signal of anxiety, you know, and you mentioned the spiritual side. And it wasn't until my early 30s that the steady drumbeat of anxiety and dread and worry relent, you know, like, receded a little bit, thanks to meditation.

And I don't even meditate recently. I haven't even been meditating for the last few years. But. But I definitely hit turned a corner, a spiritual breakthrough where I just calmed.

Down a little bit. I don't know if it was, like, age, hormones, meditation. I don't know.

I try not to, like, overly prescribe.

Meditation and yoga and all the things.

But.

Yeah, the spiritual side is very important to me, and I think that.

The free time ethos.

Is, is for a reason. You know, it's not just that I.

Think life should be so easy. It's like we all manifest stress differently.

And many people struggle with OCD disorders or compulsive behavior. And why did I gain so much weight during the pandemic? Because eating is one of them. Like just wanting a release for the stress. And.

It'S so crazy to end up at this moment as we like or toward the end of the conversation. But that's how important free time is to me, that if I can reduce stress for anybody, like, especially those of us running our own businesses or, sorry, like, who are the breadwinners for our families.

That'S a lot to carry and there are many people in the world carrying much more. But if I can help a certain slice of us, you know, what do I love about heart based business owners is that we are committed to helping others with what we generate and the whole ethos of generosity.

So I just feel if I can.

Do my part to help us have more time and energy and abundance, then.

That'S it. That's the best thing I can do with my time.

Well, thank you first for sharing.

I don't know if I've ever cried on the podcast like this.

Well, I want you to know one, I just acknowledge you and appreciate you for your willingness to share and to go there. I didn't know what you were going to share out of the book, but as you were speaking, I felt a collective exhale for myself. I'm sure people listening right now, business owners, they equally have exhaled because so many of us business owners doing our own thing, providing for our families, if a check shows up every two weeks or not, it's on us. There's no guarantee. You gave us all permission to say, you know, it's a lot. Sometimes it's a lot on our shoulders. It is so much to handle. And our society nowadays tells us, you know, sometimes to a fault to suck it up or hustle hard. But we don't give ourselves permission sometimes just to exhale and say, man, it's a lot. I'm stressed, I'm anxious. Q2 isn't looking like I thought, what's the future going to look like? But we also know simultaneously and the reason why you write this book is that in many ways, we wouldn't have it any other way because we do have a choice, many of us who run these businesses, that we could do other things that would be quite lucrative, but we're not built for that. So I want to say thank you for your openness and your willingness to share that in the book, but also share this with your audience. You just expose them to a side of you that probably just exposed them to a side of themselves as well that maybe they've been letting hang back.

Thank you.

I really appreciate that. And I really to you, thanks for asking and giving me the space. And you all can't see him, but we're on video. Tony and I are recording. So just seeing you to say it out loud and have you be there, it means so much. And yeah, you know, you said it.

But I really feel it's a gift to each other when we can do that.

I think that's why I wanted to put it in free time is just.

To.

Yeah, give a little permission to myself as well, not to hide it.

Why keep hiding it? Like, this is a fact of my life and I was gonna put it.

Out there and see if anyone noticed.

Or anyone brought it up in podcasts. And you're the first one because to.

Me, it's this big secret I've carried.

My whole and that I hide and that I wish didn't exist, no matter all the solutions, you know.

And so. But to put it out there, there.

Is something that's freeing about that because.

As we know, it's like let something breathe a little bit.

Let it be out in the open.

Let it just exist. And so, yeah, I really appreciate ut for just giving me the space for that and the acknowledgement and everything.

Yeah, I appreciate you. It creates healing. And for everyone listening right now, everyone listening, just think about that thing right now that that thing you may potentially be embarrassed to say out loud, that shame with for whatever reason because of what other people have done or said over the years. Funny enough, that thing may be that thing that creates an opening that could set you free, that could open up a release and maybe a release of tears, anger, sadness, I don't know. But I invite you to allow whatever it shows up to let it show up in a safe space where you feel comfortable doing so. Jenny, it's an honor of mine to be able to have this conversation with you. The evolution of you has been something so miraculous to watch. It's fair to say the author of welcome to College wouldn't have had a conversation like you had today. I don't think the author of your book Pivot would have the same level of openness, vulnerability that this will personal that you are today has been willing to have. I'm so excited for everyone to get their hands on free time, lose the busy work. Love your business. I'm so excited to hear all the talks you're going to do about this and just the doors you're going to open in the free time you're going to create for people. And more than anything, I'm excited to continue to watch your journey and the direction you're going to go. And that heart. That heart you're going to share with so many people. It's been an honor to interview you for this. Thank you for choosing me.

Thank you. Thank you so much Toni. Oh my goodness. And to everyone, if you're still here listening, please check out Toni's work. I just love you right back Tony. Like, thank you for everything and just watching your journey continue to unfold and evolve and becoming a husband and a.

Father and where you're taking your business.

Is just really special. And also seeing you step into more.

And more of yourself, like stop living on autopilot was so vulnerable and open.

I just see the same qualities in.

You and appreciate them so much.

And every time you do, it gives me a little courage and I'll flee right back. And every time you say oh, I.

Hesitate to talk about this even on your podcast. I'm always so grateful. So thank you as well for being.

An ongoing inspiration and for doing these special launch episodes. Thank you truly, from the bottom of my heart. Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Likewise.

If you've listened this far, you get a gold star.

Thank you.

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