101: Run Your Business with Exquisite Greatness and Tiny Art Projects with Alexandra Franzen

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If I'm going to bring someone into my calendar, into my brain, taking up real estate in my mind, I really want to give that person the very best of me and, and I want to go deep with them and I want to accomplish a lot with them. And to do that, I need to be paid well so that I don't have to clutter up my calendar with 10 clients. You know, I'd rather work with one or two at a time and really do, you know, exquisite greatness, simple excellence with them rather than have, you know, 10 different people on my calendar and feel like my brain is pulled in 500 million directions.

This is your time. How can we earn twice as much in half the time with joy and ease while serving the highest good? That is our guiding question here at the Freetime Cafe, your home for heart based business. I'm your host, Jenny Blake. Join me for conversations with authors, friends and fellow business owners as we explore ways to free your mind, time and team to do your best work. Now onto today's show.

Hello everybody. Welcome back to Free Time. I am so overjoyed. It's Christmas or whichever holiday you celebrate and get most excited about. Because today on the POD we have Alexandra Franzen. She is a best selling author, award winning editor and entrepreneur based in Hawaii. She's the co founder of Get It Done, a company that provides writing, coaching, editing, proofreading, cover design, publishing and distribution services for clients who want to write a book. And it's been really exciting to see all the photos of these beautiful books that have come into the world. She writes one of my favorite newsletters. In fact, I love it so much that I don't send it into my special SaneBox newsletter folder. It goes right into my main inbox with all my VIPs@alexandrafranzen.com and she runs really amazing courses like the Tiny Book Course, her unplugged retreats, marketing without social media, the topic of her new book and at least part of today's conversation. So Alex, welcome to the show.

Oh I am so honored that I get main inbox privileges.

Yeah baby.

I did not know.

That's something.

Party time. I know, because everything gets filtered. It's just a tiny handful. I have under five newsletters that come into my main inbox, and you're one of them.

Wow, I'm blushing. That feels like that. You could do a line of stationary for thank you notes and things. That's like. I don't put a filter on you or like, something.

That's right. Ooh, I like it. Yes, your main inbox. Worthy.

You're also a dog mom to Zookee. I mean, I left that out of your bio. What was I thinking?

The most important credential of all is dog mom, Suzuki.

Exactly. It's like the dogs are running the world, and we just assist with that.

I mean, if only dogs were running the world, we'd be in much better shape.

Oh, my goodness. What's your favorite activity to do with Zuki these days?

Well, as we were chatting about before we started recording, I just bought a new house. Super exciting. And one of the reasons why I fell in love with this particular house is that it is literally about 20 paces from a beautiful park with this gorgeous tree and lots of grass. So my new morning routine is I wake up, I have my coffee, and then I take little Zhuki and we go to the park. And he loves to chase balls. You throw the ball, he goes into a state of euphoria. He will chase, chase, chase. I mean, he would chase the ball until he passes out, basically. It's like his absolute favorite thing to do. So that's been really fun just seeing the joy on his face. It's so good for my mental health, and it just makes every day so much better.

It's so special to be able to give the gift of euphoria as you've given Zuki every day. You know, like Ryder lately, he was playing with balloons in the house. Because we're in New York City, we can't always get to the park all day long, 24 7, as he would love. Anyway, we blow balloons, and he starts almost crying with joyful anticipation.

Like.

Like, while we're blowing up the balloon, he starts losing his mind. And if you even say, you want to play balloon, you know, he's a German shepherd, so his big ears perk straight up and his head turns all the way to sign. It's like balloon. And he. It's just so cute to be able to deliver that feeling.

First of all, the notion of you playing with balloons with your dog is just about the most delightful thing I've ever heard.

Every day Right now, every day.

I think what I love about dogs is how. I mean, once there's something they love, they just love it so fully. And they can love that same thing every single day. Like it never gets old. A balloon. There's a lesson there for all of us.

I think that's so true. I know. And then there we are. Like my morning routine. Yes. I have coffee. Sometimes I have coffee mug in one hand, and then I'm hitting the balloon in the other. But it's like, in what universe do I, Jenny, wake up every day and play balloon?

You know? Oh, now you do.

That's really funny. Yes. So how's this for a transition from dogs and joy in euphoria to your personal philosophy about newsletter writing? Which is why you've made my inbox for the near a decade that we've been friends from near and far. You say each newsletter can feel like I'm writing a personal letter to a friend. Each one can be a tiny art project.

Yes.

I just love thinking about your newsletter. Like your version of balloon or the ball game.

Little balloons.

I love this. Can you tell us about thinking of your newsletter like an art project? When did that aha moment strike that you could just look at it differently? Oh, yeah.

Well, you know, I think that when you run a business, you can sometimes feel a lot of pressure to, you know, put yourself out there and do marketing and do sales, and it can start to feel really unpleasant. And I don't know, I guess around nine or ten years ago, I had this realization that I wanted to create a mailing list. I wanted to create a newsletter for me, for my personality. That's just a really natural way to communicate with people. But I realized it doesn't have to feel like this onerous chore to write a weekly newsletter. It can feel like a tiny art project. It can feel creative. And, you know, yes, I can announce my new books and I can announce courses and services, and I can mention things I'm working on, and I can invite people to hire me or work with my company, but I can also share inspirational stories and music playlists and pieces of good news and letters that feel a bit more personal, like I'm writing to a friend or like I'm writing to a colleague. And it can be all of that, and it can be really joyful to create. And once that kind of clicked in my head, it really changed the way that I approach writing my newsletter. And I've noticed that. I mean, you said such kind things earlier, but I've gotten So much lovely feedback over the years from people who say your newsletter is one of the only ones that I will never unsubscribe. And, like, that is just the highest compliment. And I think that's what happens when you decide to look at writing a newsletter or any form of marketing as an art project rather than a terrible drudgerous chore.

Good word, drudgerous.

I don't even know if that's a word, but.

Well, it does now. Drudgerous. Yeah. It's so special too, because with your newsletter, just recently my friend Sarah, who's been on the podcast, she sent our group one of your playlists. So it's interesting too, because it creates all these word of mouth moments from any one of a cornucopia, an a la carte menu of delights that are included in every newsletter.

Aw, thank you. I love music. I'm so just. I mean, I'm constantly discovering new music and I love sharing playlists, sometimes playlists that I've created, sometimes playlists that I discovered. But I think it's a really cool thing to include in a newsletter and a lot of people enjoy it, which makes me so happy. I get to pretend I'm a dj. My secret fantasy career.

It's so fun. I love it. You also talk about how being excellent at whatever you do is always the best way to get more clients and revenue. You are somebody who, watching you work, watching your business evolve, it's just so special. I have a category, actually, believe it or not, in my little swipe file, my little, I call it synthesis, where I track little ideas. And I have a label called exquisite greatness. And so far, Adele has made it in there. During a conversation with Oprah, and as we're talking, you strike me as someone in the pocket of exquisite greatness. Like being more and more yourself and being absolutely excellent at what you do. And I know because not only do I read your newsletter, I've attended your workshops. I've gotten your zingers of feedback where you just walk by, throw out some brilliance, and then keep moving, like to the other workshop participants. And it's just incredible to see. And the question I'm curious about is how. I know it's hard because you're you and you're living it, but how do you peel away the layers of what's not you to get to that excellent core that you are so fully embodying in the world?

Ooh, that's a deep question. First of all, I feel like this is like the Alex Flattery show. Like you're so.

I can't help it. It's one of my flaw as a podcaster is I'll just embarrass my guests until we're both so awkward and embarrassed that no one knows what to do. So you're not the first.

It's a great hosting technique. It's working. I'm like blushing from ear to ear.

I'm genuinely curious because a lot of people are trying to build content online and here at the free time and heart based business community, we're trying to be joyful about it. And you, I think, are just, you're there, you're doing it, you're living it. So I am genuinely curious, as much as it seems like I'm just trying to butter you up.

Well, you know, I love that phrase that you use, exquisite greatness. That's such a beautiful turn of phrase. And it reminds me of a friend and colleague of mine and former client, Jennifer Kemp, who's a branding strategist. She uses the phrase simple excellence, which I really love that phrase, simple excellence. And I think that, you know, throughout my career as an entrepreneur, as a writer, particularly the last five years or so, I've really been trying to cultivate that quality of simple excellence. And what that means to me personally is, you know, you choose something that you're excited about, you commit to that path, you put in your ten thousand or your hundred thousand hours to really gain mastery of a particular skill. You do one thing and you do it a lot until you gain a certain level of excellence. And I think my greatest inspiration for that is probably my brother Ben, Ben Wendle. He's a jazz musician, he's a composer, he's multiple Grammy nominated. He's the most incredible artist that I know, and he's also the most disciplined person I know. Like, he approaches music with rigor and discipline. I mean, this is a guy who, he will pick up his saxophone and practice for two hours a day no matter what. Like, he is so disciplined with mastering his craft and continually learning more and improving. And I think I, to the greatest extent possible, I try to bring that same spirit to my work as a writer and as a small business owner. So I think what I'm getting at here is the way that you create that exquisite greatness or that simple excellence is you gotta pick something, right? Like, you gotta pick something that you're willing to really pour a lot of time and effort and dedication into until you can become, you know, not just good, but really, really good at doing that. One thing does that answer the question? Oh yeah.

And in fact, you brought up this piece about doing less. In the new book you say do less and do it better. What have you dropped along the way this last decade? Plus, like, were there big things that you stopped doing so that you could focus more?

Oh, yes, absolutely. What a great question. Yeah, it is about doing less, right? Do less and do it better. So, I mean, if I roll all the way back to the beginning of my career as a writer when I first started, I mean, I would do any project under the moon and sun and stars. Like, I mean, I did a freelance gig writing language for a medical cathet company and I wrote product descriptions for a bug spray pamphlet and I would edit resumes and cover letters. I mean, I would just do anything, like anything even remotely related to writing. If they were willing to pay me a couple bucks, I would do it. And then as time went on, I began to refine and focus and zero in on a particular kind of project that I especially love to do. And so I'm trying to think of like some. I mean, there have been so many things over the years that I've tried and then dropped. Whether it's a particular course, a particular workshop, a particular type of project or client, there's definitely been a lot of shedding. And at this point what I really focus on is essentially two things. It's books, anything related to books and publishing. And then it's writing projects for a very select number of clients each year, usually where they're hiring me to write something for their company, whether it's website, newsletter, product descriptions, video scripts, a keynote talk, things like that. But even within that realm, like I've gotten more and more selective about which companies I'm excited to work with. And so yeah, over the years things have like simplified, simplified, simplified. And it continues, right? Like there's always another layer of simplicity that we can reach.

We'll be right back just after this.

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What's the relationship you have to taking on one on one client work where it's kind of a fixed engagement? I know you love doing it. You're so good at it. Is there a part of you that's saying, oh, either you want to step back or I know you don't follow shoulds, but is there a part of you that thinks, well, maybe I kind of want to run the business at a higher level and pull away from the one on one. So how do you just balance that with your time and energy?

So, okay, this is really interesting because I've gone through a few cycles around, I guess it was like early 2021, about a year ago. I went through a moment where I was like, I think I need to stop doing one on one work with clients. I think I need to step away so that I can really go all in on growing my company to a higher level. And so I basically fired all my clients like in a very gracious, gradual way. Like we had a six month heads up and we had a trans plan and I started to gradually wind down the projects that I was doing with clients and they hired new writers to replace me and I helped train them. So it was a very gradual thing. But then by like May or June of 2021, I had no clients. I had my company and we were doing, you know, different courses and projects and that was really exciting. But I had no clients, like individual clients for the first time in about 10 years. And it's so funny, like I'm actually connecting the dots as we speak right now. That summer I felt really weird. I felt a bit depressed. I kind of went through like a low grade depression. I felt a little purposelessness. I didn't feel like myself. I definitely went through a slump. And. And then towards the beginning of this year, I began working with a very small number of clients again. And I think what I realized through that journey is that a couple of things, one is that I really love intimacy and I love the experience of working individually with a client, really getting to know them, becoming not just colleagues, but real friends. And I love the experience of going deep with someone and like, you know, working on a large project that's really significant and meaningful. I also love that with each client I work with, it's like stepping into a new world. Like One client might run a finance company and one might run a nutrition company. And so I get to learn so much with each client. What I also realized though, is that I needed to raise my rates. To be totally honest, like I was not enjoying that type of work. It was that I was doing too much of it because I was charging too little. So I basically tripled my rates and decided. But really I realized I haven't raised my rates in eight years. And it's time, you know, I've evolved as a writer, I've evolved as a service provider. I've got some serious credentials under my belt at this point. And it's time to triple those rates. And by doing that, what it means is that I can be super selective and I can work with a small handful of really interesting clients throughout the year, do work that's really meaningful, but without overloading myself and still have the bandwidth that I need to run my company and be, you know, a CEO as well. So that's a sort of a long story short of what I've realized over the last year.

I appreciate you sharing that and it's interesting how in just conducting these experiments because it's not easy to wrap up every client with a six month offboarding process. And that's a big decision. And I'm sure in the moment it felt like a tricky one. And then communicating it, going through with it, realizing how you felt with no clients. And I do think that, you know, the company you were talking about building, get it done, that started right at the start of 2021. I even say in free time that business owners, if they stay doing services, should 3x their rates to account for 3t's time, team and taxes. Yeah, when you have the complexity of a whole business, not just Alexander Franzen, but get it done as well, you are already pulled in a few more places. And so I think that the 3x multiple on your rates is so fitting and necessary. I love that you did that. I'm actually so happy for you. And then the ones who are meant to work with you, that's still gonna be a bargain considering the value you deliver.

Yeah, it did feel really scary to raise my rates so significantly. But I knew it was time. And there were some other subtle changes I made. Like I came up with a number in my mind and I basically decided if I'm going to work with a client one on one, if I'm gonna, you know, bring someone world and I'm going to do writing services for them, that client, like the minimum amount needs to be xyz. I won't do a project for less than that because I know that every client I bring into my world, I care so much and it occupies real estate in my brain. And even when I'm in the shower, I'm thinking about them and I'm brainstorming. So I knew that, you know, if I'm going to have two clients on my plate each month or three or whatever, they each need to meet that sort of minimum project amount or I just have to say no to protect my time. Right. So it's these kinds of decisions that can be difficult but also are so crucial to protect ourselves financially, emotionally, mentally, and most of all to protect our time, which I know is something that you're so passionate about.

Yes. So, yeah, definitely. And it's hard to protect your time if the pricing. I didn't want to get too much into pricing in the book because it's just a whole nother ball of yarn. But it's hard to create more spaciousness with your time without the pricing kind of toggling with it. I'm curious, did you raise your rates for long time, like, grandfathered clients? As in, I'm still looking for a gender neutral term for grandfathered because every time I say it now I'm like, parented. I think this is gonna be on this way out. Yeah.

Yeah.

I don't know. Did you have to have tough conversations of like, hey, this is 3x now, or did you keep some of them? And then I'm also wondering, you don't have to share a specific number because I don't like doing that either. Things are always changing. But maybe could you just give us a range? Like my get out of bed number used to be between this and this and now it's here and here.

Yeah, absolutely. I'm totally happy to talk about this. So as a sort of related side note, I actually recently began working with a new client. Her name's Erin and her company's called Pricing Overhaul. And we're working on her first book. And even just in the last couple of weeks of helping her to develop the book manuscript, it has been an awakening for me to think about pricing in a new way. And I want to share one thing that she said. And I know she won't mind me sharing this because she says it all the time on her website everywhere. But she says to her clients, and most of her clients are undercharging. They're service providers who are very good at what they do and they're not charging enough and what she says to them is, look, you can undercut your pricing, you can undercharge. You know, you can charge whatever $500 for your package instead of 2,000 or whatever, but know that when you're doing that, you're making a choice. And you're making a choice that now you're going to need to work 50 hours a week instead of 20 to hit the revenue number that you need in order to pay your team, your taxes, and yourself. So you can absolutely undercharge. Like you are within your rights to do that. But know that each time you do that, you are choosing a particular kind of business and life that you don't want.

And there's something about the way that she puts that so bluntly that I find really eye opening and inspirational. So, yeah, choices.

I love it.

Yes.

And just realizing that I quote Byron Katie. I've adapted a Byron Katie saying, which is that if you're in their business and they're in their business, there's nobody home for yours. And Katie means it in the sense of anything. Any thoughts, assumptions, feelings. You know, if we're always worried about what the other people think of us, no one's home for us. But the same is true with pricing and with our budget and with our bills. If we're so worried what we're charging other people, who's worried about us?

Yes, exactly.

Who's home for us?

Exactly. Yeah. Okay. So previously I would, you know, especially if it was a longtime client or a friend client. I call them Flyance friend clients. You know, if somebody came to me and said, hey, you know, I've got this just quickie little project. It's a quick turnaround, I need X, Y and Z. Could you write this for me? If, especially if I really loved them and I knew they would be an easy client, I would say, sure, you know, I can turn that around for you in the next week or so. And I would do projects that were priced around, I don't know, 1500 bucks, 2000 bucks, 3000 bucks, something like that. And look, don't get me wrong, 3000 bucks, 1500 bucks, that's real money. You know, that's a good amount of money. That's rent. That's a mortgage. I'm not trying to insinuate like that's just peanuts, because it's not. But I've come to a point now in my career where I really won't say yes to a project unless it's like a $10,000 minimum. And really, in my mind, it's more like a 20,000 minimum. And the reason for that is, like I mentioned earlier, you know, if I'm going to bring someone into my calendar, into my brain, taking up real estate in my mind, I really want to give that person the very best of me and I want to go deep with them and I want to accomplish a lot with them. And to do that, I need to be paid well so that I don't have to clutter up my calendar with 10 clients. You know, I'd rather work with one or two at a time and really do, you know, exquisite greatness, simple excellence with them, rather than have, you know, 10 different people on my calendar and feel like my brain is pulled in 500 million directions.

Yes. It makes so much sense. And we were talking before we hit record, just, I'm finding with all the stresses of the last few years and my overall energy levels that the numbers are so much higher now. Yeah, I don't have the capacity and don't have the desire to keep working in those old ways or for less. It's actually just not enough in a very real way, like a visceral way, let's call it that. And of course, as you said, still grateful. And of course, when push comes to shove, sometimes you just do what you gotta do. Like your story of sitting at a conference, taking notes for the client that would appear on a gigantic screen behind the stage, like, that was the funniest story of a client gig.

Yeah.

And I think you're so right. Like, and also, hello, like, can we talk about inflation? Can we talk about.

Exactly.

Rising cost of living? There's so many factors at play that may cause you to go, wow, you know, it really is time to triple my rates or quadruple my rates or 10x my rates or whatever it is. And I always try to look at it as, like, how is this a win win for me and the client? You know, because the client, yes, they're going to pay me more money, but they're going to get the greatest version of me. They're going to get me well rested and present and focused and not distracted and in a beautiful office and flourishing. And they're going to get my undivided attention, you know, for the time that we're together. So I think all of that is so important to factor into pricing as well. And, yeah, pricing is so complicated, and I am by no means a pricing expert.

But you will be when you're done working with Erin. I can't wait for her.

Okay, so I'm super excited about her book. And I mean, I've already learned so much. But yeah, I mean, I think it really does come back to the way she puts it, which is that every pricing decision you make is ultimately a choice about your quality of life, your time, how you're choosing to value yourself and your services, and you can choose to keep your pricing where it is, you can choose to give a discount, you can choose to raise your price. And all of those are choices that have a very real impact on your life. I remember reading a statistic that was women in particular tend to undercharge and I don't remember the exact dollar amounts, but there was a study in the UK about self employed women versus self employed men and women and overall women's day rate, you know, what they might charge for a full day of their time was something like 30% lower than what an average man would charge. And if you think about what that means over the course of not just a day but a year, it basically means that self employed women are working for free from like September to December, like a third of the year, a quarter of the year, because they have to work so much longer to make the same amount. You get what I'm saying? So that's really mind blowing to think about. Like by undercharging, you're now setting yourself up where you have to work for days, weeks, months just to catch up. You know, you're essentially working for free for that time, which is. It's really wild to think about.

Oh my gosh. That's one of those stats. Because it hurts, because it's true. I've done it. I've experienced it all the way around. Wow. Yeah. Thank you for that reminder, everyone.

Raise your rates.

Yes. And I'm going to link to a great conversation with Shaquette Timmins in the show Notes as well. She was an early guest on Free Time talking about pricing. So such a juicy, juicy topic. And I remember one of my business coaches in 2021, we got on a kind of end of year strategy call for the year ahead and she said, I hereby grant all of you a raise.

Aww.

So it's like when you're self employed, there's nobody to give you your performance review and give you a raise. So Alex and I right now in this moment are giving all of you listening. You just earned a raise. Yes. A big one. A big fat one.

Do your own performance review. Write down all of your wins from the last year, all of the things that you did with excellence, all the results you got for your Clients, all the great things and then give yourself a raise, triple it. Add a couple zeros to the end.

100%.

Yeah. Full permission.

I love it. And there will be a moment for another permission slip at the end. But this is your first permission everybody. I also want to ask you, Alex, I know we're getting close on time, but you've made such a big shift. Speaking of employees and raises and the adulting aspects of business.

It'S been really interesting watching you have alexanderfranzen.com and be doing your thing as you've described. And then I was watching with like elatement and curiosity seeing you launch, you co founded, Get It Done and to where you and your co founder are full time employees of the business and you have two full time employees with a handful of contractors as well. So you've now shifted at least in parallel to what you were already doing. Get It Done. It's like a bonafide full on business with employees. Yeah, tell me about that. Were you nervous? I mean, what's it been like? You described it as a wild ride in our calendly notes, which I love.

Yeah. So at this point, like you articulated, I basically have two businesses. I have Alexandra Franzen llc, which is where I do, you know, my personal projects or where I work with clients one on one from time to time. And then I have Get It Done, which is a book publishing company. And we offer, as you mentioned at the top of the show, all kinds of services for people who want to write a book. So writing, coaching, editing, design, publishing, distribution, book marketing, etc. How it all started, it was about two years ago. I think I reached a point with my first business, Alexandra Franzen llc, where I didn't have any employees. I had a part time virtual assistant, Woz, and she is incredible. And things were growing rapidly. I was offering new programs, new courses. I just had so much going on and I was so busy and I realized that it was time to ask Woz if she would be willing to work full time and be, you know, like a full time assistant. And I hemmed and hawed over this decision for about five months and I felt so nervous. I felt I wasn't sure if I could take that leap. Something about having a full time employee who was relying on me for their paycheck just felt like an enormous responsibility. And especially because Woz is a mom, Woz has a kid. Like I kept thinking, you know, can I hold the responsibility to pay not just myself a great salary, but to provide for Woz and for her family. Because if I screw this up, you know, like that's really bad and it's going to really impact people that I care about very much. So I took my time and there was a lot of therapy sessions with my therapist and there was a lot of financial review. I was very, very, very cautious and I waited until I really felt ready and I really felt like I could hold this level of responsibility. And ultimately, honestly what happened is that was she at the time had another full time job and she was working for me part time and. And she wanted needed to leave that job because the schedule and everything just really wasn't working for her. And this was in the middle of pandemic times and homeschooling and everything. And so she basically kept nudging me and saying, hey, are you ready? Are you ready? You know, can we do this? And so I reached a moment and I remember it so vividly when I pulled into the drive thru at my local Starbucks and I was waiting in the drive through for my coffee drink and I called Woz and officially offered her the full time job. And then she started crying and I started crying.

It was such a beautiful moment because I knew that this was going to be such a win win for both of us. I could provide her with a full time job, higher pay, totally flexible schedule. She could virtual and homeschool her child. I could provide her with a real upgrade and I knew that she could provide me with the same. So it was just a really beautiful moment. And I have to tell you, as soon as I really made that decision and like fully made up my mind, I wasn't scared anymore. And it just, I say you, I guess I'm talking about me personally. But from that moment onward it was just like, all right, this is the new normal. This is what we do now. We have an employee, we pay a salary and it kind of became a non issue. It wasn't this big horrible responsibility as I feared it would be. It just sort of started to feel normal, right? Just like normal is you charge $1,000 for a project and then eventually you charge 10,000 and then 10,000 becomes your new normal. It was sort of one of those.

And then when I decided to start get it done with my business partner, Lindsay was essentially transferred over and became our first full time employee with that company. And then we hired more people in a gradual way over the course of a year as our need and demand grew. So it wasn't like we started with two full time employees and two co founders and three contractors right out of the gate. It was bringing people on board in a gradual way as we had more clients and projects and more things to do. But I will say for me personally, finding the courage to make that first hire was one of the biggest emotional obstacles that I've had to overcome as an entrepreneur. But once I did just sort of felt normal and continues to feel that way.

That's so amazing. And it's nice that you already had that trust with was, I think something that freaks people out, myself included, is imagining bringing on a full time person when you don't have that base established that you did. So it's like, it's nice how you were able to just slowly build toward that and still it's a Big Gulp moment.

Yes.

But just hearing your take on the other side is really interesting.

It was a Big Gulp, but I agree. You know, I think that the fact that I had already known Woz for several years, she'd done freelance work for me for quite a while. We had a great connection. I trusted her completely. It made it that much easier to offer her that full time job. And I want to be clear, like, I'm still learning how to be a boss and how to be a manager. This is all pretty new and I've definitely made some mistakes. Like I got some feedback from my team recently and that they felt like a bit disconnected from me. And several of them expressed like, we get a regular zoom meeting on the calendar. Like, we want to see your face. We feel a bit disconnected. We don't hear from you that often. So I'm still learning and I'm still figuring out how do I be the greatest leader and boss that I can be? How do I give people on my team, you know, the amount of attention and FaceTime that they need, the amount of praise that they rightly deserve. How do I balance all of that with also protecting my time and my schedule? And it's a journey and I'm still learning and figuring it out. But I think that what I really, really appreciate is that there's just a lot of kindness with each person that we've hired at Get It Done. And everyone on the team is just a great person who cares so deeply about what they're doing and wants to do a great job. And knowing that that is the foundation beneath everything, it just gives me a relief, honestly. I know that our clients are in good hands.

And how do you and Lindsay divvy up the work and responsibilities as co founder?

Oh my gosh. Okay. So that also is kind of an evolving Thing. I mean, again, our company is only about a year and a half old, so we're still figuring those things out. But at this moment in time, the division is. I'm pretty much the lead content creator for the company. So, you know, every piece of language that you see on our website, in a presentation, in a newsletter, content that's in our tiny book course, our book writing course, every worksheet, every audio file I create, all of that. Like, that's my intellectual property. Other team members may, you know, add here and there, but it's primarily my responsibility to write and record audio and create content for the company. It's also my responsibility, along with Lindsay, to just kind of be the visionary of the company and figure out what are we selling this year and who are we selling it to and what are the services we want to be known for and how can we get our clients even better results and how are we going to bring clients in the door, you know, all of that kind of stuff. So that's kind of my role in the company. And then Lindsey does, you know, similar things, like, we definitely create vision and strategy together, but she's much more gifted at, like, backend logistics. So she's amazing at figuring out how do we get, you know, 300 boxes filled with gifts and shipped out to our clients who are doing the course by August 1st, and who's our printer and who's our distributor, and how do we get X number of books printed and delivered to this bookstore and this and that. So she's incredible at figuring out systems logistics, shipping, distribution, printing, all of which is, like, my nightmare. So that's one reason why she and I work so well together is we have a lot of shared values, and we also have really complementary skills that work really well together, like knowing that I can write and fill a Google document with language and hand it over to her and the team, and it gets magically transformed into a printed workbook, a box, a brochure, a this, a that, or whatever is. That's a great feeling because that kind of stuff is so difficult for me to pull off.

Yeah. Oh, I know. It's that magic feeling. And then, like, I sometimes feel guilty. Until then, the person goes, but I love doing this. And, like, what? You know, my brain, I can't even hardly comprehend that something I could hate so much, like, some aspect of the process.

Yes, I know. Other people love it, other people love it. And that's really something that we're trying to achieve as a company is, of course, you know, how can Each member of the team be doing that thing that they just love, and they can get into a zone, and it feels really good. And I do think it takes a bit of time to really iron all of that out. But. But I also believe in my gut that if you start by just hiring great, smart people who really care and are kind and compassionate and good communicators, like, it'll all work itself out in the end. So, yeah, thanks for asking. It's interesting. Honestly, I haven't really sat down and thought about, like, how is it going being a manager, boss, person.

Yeah. Adulting. It's amazing. And I'm with you. I think. Kindness. I had this realization with dating. So much of my dating life ends up coming into these podcasts more than I intend. But there was a point where I realized kindness do not pass go. They need to be kind.

Yeah.

And not just for myself. Even when I would see friends or who they were dating, it's like, kindness is so crucial. Someone cannot be in my life. Like, without it, it's not gonna happen.

Yeah, absolutely. It comes back to that. Because then, you know, like, no matter what happens, even if there is, like, a crisis or a really big issue, if people are kind and their heart is in the right place, like, you can work it out.

Yeah. Like you said, kindness. And then for a team, like, the eagerness, the desire to contribute and do a great job, I could just always talk to you all day. In fact, we were going to talk about marketing without social media, but what's funny is we spoke about that, as you reminded me in March of 2020 on the pivot podcast. Yeah, I'm gonna link to that in the show notes because Alex is featured in free time for her glorious eight years now of running her business. Without it. There's one thing I wanted to ask you related to this before we wrap up.

Yeah.

You say in the book, what is marketing anyway? You excite and then invite. And I just have to get that on the record of this one. What a simple, beautiful way to think about marketing. Excite and then invite. And that's what you do over and over and over again.

Yes, exactly. I mean, in my mind, that's all that marketing is. Right? Like, you get people excited about whatever it is that you're offering or selling, and then you invite them to become a client or invite them to become a customer. And what I love is that there's so many ways to excite and invite. Right. Like, you can excite people with a video, with a newsletter, with a product demonstration with a podcast appearance with any number of things. It doesn't have to be on social media. Like social media is certainly one place. It's one channel where you could excite and invite. But by no means the only option, and that's really what I try to get across in my new book, is that, I mean, you have hundreds of ways, hundreds of options that you could bring more clients and customers in the door. You can absolutely use social media as part of your marketing plan if you want, but it's not the only option and it's not mandatory. It is definitely optional, not mandatory.

We'll be right back just after this.

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You are launching this book and at the time of this recording, who knows when you're on your own delightfully independent publishing schedule. Because not only are you a badass business owner of two companies, but you're also like now a publisher. It's just so awesome. Just don't mind me just running a whole publishing agency over here. Here's what I'm curious about. One of your suggestions in the book, there's over a hundred. One of them is simply asking, would you like to book me as a guest on your show? To a podcaster, and I have a lot of people in my BFF community will ask, how do you get on podcasts? I have to tell you, Alex, now I'm a month and a half out of my book launch. At the time of this recording, I felt so vulnerable asking people, do you want to have me on your show? And even when they were my friends, I never wanted them to just take pity on me, you know, Like, I had all these emotions come up around the vulnerability of asking and launching. And I'm just curious because I know you have some joyful strategy for this. When you are the one excited to invite yourself to someone else's party to help with marketing, how do you wrap your mind around that? To let it be easy, joyful, stress free, or stress less. Let's call it.

Oh my gosh, I love this question. So, yes, I think that one of the most powerful things you can do to get more clients, more customers, more revenue is to flex your asking muscle. Right? Like just find the courage to ask. Whether it's emailing a potential client and asking, would you be interested in my services? Or circling back to a previous customer and saying, would you like a refill? Would you like to place another order? Or as you said, you know, reaching out to someone who works in the media, perhaps a podcast host, and saying, you know, would you be interested in having me as a guest on your show? And when I'm reaching out to ask if I could be a guest, how I usually phrase that email is something like this. I would say, like, hey, Jenny, loving your new podcast. I've listened to the last couple of episodes and I especially love the episode about X, Y and Z. I'm not sure if you're looking for guests for future episodes right now, but if you are, I'd love to be considered. If we had a conversation on the show, here's a couple things that we could discuss and then I would put a couple of bullet points. Like we could talk about my story of starting a second company in the middle of a pandemic. We could talk about the journey of shifting from freelancer to boss with full time employees. We could talk about how I quit social media eight years ago and how I'm running a company without social media or anything else that your listeners might enjoy. If that sounds exciting, let me know. I'm open to recording anytime that works for you. And if it's not a fit, no worries, no pressure. Thanks so much, Alex. Something like that. Right? So it's like, it's really simple, it's really brief. I'm taking a no pressure tone. I think the key phrase that makes that kind of ask feel really comfortable for me is saying, I'm not sure if you're looking for fill in the blank, but if you are, I'd love to be considered or I volunteer or I raise my hand. I love it. Right. And that leaves it really chill and open ended and it makes it like not feel icky to ask. The other key thing there is that I'm proposing a quick bullet point list of, of interesting Things that we could talk about on the show. So what I'm doing there is, yes, I'm asking, would you like to have me as a guest on the show? But I'm not asking you to do me a favor. I'm not asking you to, like, help out your poor bedraggled friend. You know, I'm saying, like, hey, you know, here's a great list of conversation topics that your listeners might really enjoy. So I'm proposing, I'm making a proposition of an exciting, interesting episode. So in a sense, I'm doing you a favor. You know what I mean?

Right.

And I think if you think of it that way, like, look, there are. I don't even remember the latest statistics, something like over a million podcasts on Spotify and in the Apple Music directory these days. And out of those million podcasts, a lot of them release an episode every week. A lot of them feature a guest every episode. That means there are hundreds of thousands of podcast hosts who are trying to find interesting guests, right? Like, they are trying to fill those slots. So if you reach out with a lovely, gracious, no pressure proposition and say, hey, I'll be a guest, and here's how we could create a great episode, that's a win for them, right? Like, you're making their life easier in many ways. So I try to look at it that way. Whenever I'm asking for something, it's like, hey, I'm asking, but I'm also proposing something exciting that could perhaps make your life a little easier. And I think that's a great way to think about asking. Whenever you're asking for someone's business or asking for support or asking if you can have an opportunity, it's like, how could I make your day? Right? So with that attitude, I think asking becomes a lot easier.

I love that and I love the shift just not to fall into the will you do me a favor? Energy of it. Just really thinking about the mutual benefit that can come. And I know when I noticed myself feeling really almost needy, I had to shift and be like, I want to be on the people's podcast who are thrilled to hear from me, and it's not going to be everyone. And there might even be friends of mine that go, no, this is not my jam. But I wanted the ones that were like, oh, yes, please, yes. How quickly can I get you my calendly link? And I was just trying to hold the thought that that's who was going to say yes and that's whose show I want to be on anyway. Yeah, the ones that would exactly as you described, see it as mutually beneficial.

Exactly. And even the people who are like, oh, you know what? My calendar is totally full. I don't have any guest slots right now, or even people who are like, you know, you're awesome, but it's just not a fit for my audience simply by asking now, you've planted a little seed in their mind. Right. And now when they're having coffee with a colleague who also hosts a podcast, they might say, oh, you know what, you should interview Jenny. She has a new book out right now, and I know she's looking for more media coverage and duh, duh, duh, duh. So even if they say no or no, thank you or not right now, just by asking, you're creating a ripple effect that will ultimately lead to more of the opportunities that you want.

I love that. Yes. And there were some where they said, I'm so slammed, I can't even consider it. And I'm like, no worries.

Yeah.

You know, I also feel that it's always perfect timing. There were some people who had to reschedule, and I'm just like, there's no rush. I mean, same with yours. Even with your book, it's like, oh, it's all good, it's all good, whenever.

It all good.

So, Alex, let's put the button on that. If you could give business owners permission to do something differently or drop something altogether, what would it be?

Oh, my gosh. Okay. That's a perfect closing question. Well, to circle back to earlier, definitely a. Permission to significantly increase your prices, raise your rates is number one. I would say. Permission to expand your team. Permission to hire that part time assistant or full time assistant or more, if that feels right for you and the direction that you want to grow. And then permission to quit social media.

Yes.

Or take a break. Right. It's okay to make a temporary decision. One quick little anecdote I'll leave you with is there was an experiment that's now known as the Facebook experiment. And it was in Denmark, a group of around a thousand, I think it was 10, 95 Danish people, all pledged to quit Facebook for one week. So no looking at Facebook for one whole week. And at the end of that week, I mean, the transformation was so profound. Like, they reported higher life satisfaction, less concentration difficulties, less time wasted, and greater happiness and satisfaction with their social life and their relationships. So I think that just so perfectly illustrates what we all instinctively feel to be true, which is like, when you step away from social media, even just for a short time, you're going to feel really good. So if social media is something that stresses you out or feels like it's hurting you more than it's helping you, I would say absolute permission to step away and take back your time. Protect your peace, protect your mental health, take a week off, evaluate how you feel, and if you ultimately decide that you want to return to social media but maybe use it differently, that's great. If you decide you want to quit forever like I did, that's great. But permission to do what is truly right for you.

Protect your peace. And I remind myself, you and I are friends without social media. I follow your newsletter. We create things we ask each other when it's time to spread the word. It's like this to me is always a reminder as well of just how much richness is possible, even without it. So Alex, thank you for leading the charge. Thank you for being the joy in my inbox and so many others. And for all the work and exquisite greatness that you put into the world.

Aw, the same to you. You are so exquisitely great.

Thank you. As are all of you listening. Thank you so much for being here. Big thanks again, Alex. What a joy.

If you've listened this far, you get a gold star.

Thank you.

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