152: Glowing in the Dark with Kristoffer 'KC' Carter

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What's next? This is a question we're all having to ask and answer more frequently. I'm Jenny Blake, your host of the Pivot Podcast and author of Pivot. The only move that matters is your next one.

For show notes from this episode, visit pivotmethod.com podcast if Change is the only concept constant, then let's get better at it. Here we go.

I am delighted to be here today with my guest, Christopher Casey Carter. He goes by Casey, who is the Catalyst in Chief of this Epic Life and the creator of the Full Life Integration Framework. Casey is a Culture and Meditation Advisor for companies and personal Transformation Coach for Leadership. As a meditation teacher, he has over 33,000 active students on Insight Timer. It's probably more by the time this comes out, and his Mission and Value centric programs have been featured in Business Insider on stage at TEDx in a wonderful talk called what if Change Was Fun. Which of course you know I Resonate with Wisdom 2.0 and countless other conferences. He's also the host of the new this Epic Life podcast. And I met Casey when I was speaking at Jonathan Field Good Life Summer Camp, which is no longer happening. But Casey is the fearless MC, provides enough energy for 500 people every day, all day long. And his energy is truly contagious and is matched by just such deep heart and wisdom and joy and soul and inspiration. So we decided we're just gonna riff together on this episode. He has a show, I have a show, and we're gonna do the podcast dance. It's not scripted. It's. We're gonna go back and forth, and I'm already so excited to dive in. Casey, it's a joy to collaborate with you. Wow.

Thank you so much for your beautiful words. And I gotta just tell you, the first time I started creeping on you, Jenny Blake was not actually even online. It was in person. You came out to speak at a conference in Silicon Valley, the one that Robin Zander hosts.

Responsive.

Responsive, right, right. And I ended up taking a couple pictures while you were speaking. I said, hey, I'll send you these. I had been well aware of the pivot book, and I think you had already been on Jonathan's podcast at that point, and just we had a lot of mutual friends. So when I saw you speak and then got to meet you and work with you at Camp Good Life Project, it was just such a joy to finally be able to hang and get to know you. So I think we have a great foundation to do the podcast Tango together.

Oh, Podcast Tango. I love it. And I had. It's so funny you say that, because prior to Responsive, I had heard you on Jonathan's Good Life podcast as his council of his wisdom council. And all your guest episodes that you did were so good and so wise, and you were even counseling me before we hit record on this call on this podcast. So cool. I love the winding intersect, intersecting of paths. And then now it's time to really go dive deeply and then have it be recorded. And everyone, you're all listening and get to share in the joy of friendship, further unfolding.

I feel like if there's a central theme for both of our journeys, it's that being obsessed with change and just embracing it because you might as well. And also kind of the spiritual component that comes with that eventually. And I was so fascinated with your story last summer at camp when you were telling me you were heading into seminary. And I know you've had some twists and turns since then, but I'M just excited to unpack that a little bit. This kind of relationship between change and soul and what that takes.

Yes. And it's funny because I think Jonathan's like a third presence on this podcast because his book Uncertainty really sparked a lot for me when I was thinking about change. And then I saw on your website you say uncertainty and change are a given. Playing change as a game makes everything possible. And I often say this, that I feel like we are put on this planet to live, learn, love and serve and that ultimately we're lucky to play the human game. And to play the human game, you've got to kind of be in the 3D world of money and have a job somehow and support your family or yourself. But it's a game and the best way that game is played is to be grateful for it and to have fun with it. But it doesn't always feel like that when you're in it. But I'm so glad you brought that up, that you and I both sort of believe in a higher guiding intelligence and just the soul and the spirit that transcend the human game as well.

I love that you brought up Jonathan. He was actually at my house this weekend for the Camp Good Life Project staff reunion and it was just always a joy to see everybody together. But I was really present to what a massive impact his work has had on me and my family over the last seven years. I read Uncertainty and when I finished I thought, I'm going to get this guy's attention. I want to be friends with this dude. Actually, it was the first book I read after Autobiography of a Yogi, which kicked off my Kriya Yoga practice and taking vows as a Kriya Bond yogi. So that was my spiritual path. And then I found Uncertainty. And what I noticed about Jonathan is at the core of everything that he does, every topic he covers. He is a yogi first and foremost. So that spiritual kind of even keel Equanimity chill vibe is always there. Even though he's a fast paced New York Jewish guy with a law background or whatever. It's just great to have those examples of people that accomplish so much but just keep the important things top of mind.

Yes. Even his pivot story of founding Sonic Yoga in New York City.

Oh yeah, because it's true.

You put it so well that looking at someone like that, he is very strategic and he's always been kind of a futurist in the online business space. Like he sees what's coming and gets there and does it with heart and Soul and this chill vibe, as you said. Equanimity, by the way, is one of my favorite words and favorite practices. Like if I could not, not even that. I like the word strive, but when I orient my life, it's usually around equanimity and not something more fleeting like happiness. But what I love what you said is that you identified him. I call them friend tours. Like people that don't even know you yet and you yet you're like, I want to be that guy's friend. I'm curious what your strategy when you find someone like that and you think, I want to be that person's friend. How did you actually make that happen?

Last week I interviewed one of my ultimate long term sheroes on my podcast, Ani DiFranco. And I followed her music for 30 years. I played one of her songs for my wife at our wedding and then, you know, 20 years later, we are best friends with her and her family. They come stay with us. She's been on the podcast where she doesn't do any long form interview. She sat down with me on my little just starting out podcast. There's never a strategy with these. It's more so, you know, I try to run Jonathan's advice, which is what can I give? His core values are make, which is create to love, add a lot of love into the mix and just give so generously. So with any of these people that I cannot believe I'm friends with, present company included, Jenny, Blake, you're crazy. My goal is always to give in a way of my presence and my being, wisdom, resources, tools, whatever I can to just hopefully make that person's day just somewhat a little brighter. Having spoken to me, my wife always joked about me that anytime we were in couples therapy together, she'd be like, man, being in therapy with you sucks because you're constantly waging this battle for everybody to love you. You try to win the therapist over and then you do, and then it's like me against you and the therapist. I was like, no, that's not my goal. Okay, maybe it is my goal. But if I can bring that in a way that's not needy or manipulative and just try to add a little love and humor to the mix. I feel like that's what turned Jonathan from, you know, my lofty Internet hero teacher obsession into my mensch. You know, he is the guy I call or hit up with those complex business issues where you just don't know where to go next. I mean, he is there as one of the most stable figures in my life in that way. So I think it's just based on when you're not on the level with people in terms of what they've impacted you with or what they've contributed to your life, you can be on the level with really deep, authentic presence, sharing unselfishly of yourself. And if anything worked, maybe that's what it was.

I can definitely see that. I mean, even you're an example of what people say to me, and I don't really get it. I just kind of brush it off. But now I've experienced it from you. I mean, I try not to brush it off, but I showed up today feeling kind of down. I told you before we hit record, I'm coming through a big business dip. All the adrenaline and energy of building, I just crashed from. For a variety of reasons, I almost wanted to cancel this. And there you were from the first minute and the first five minutes, just with your presence and your energy and your positivity and sort of lifting me back up to the point where, before we even hit record, I was already so grateful that I didn't cancel this conversation. And. And I really respect that. And it's so true that it's. It's giving in a way with your presence that goes beyond. Sometimes I don't know if you experience this, but sometimes I can see people trying so hard to. That it's actually like a bit of a burden for the receiving person and just energy alone. I know, like, I've always tried. One of my values is clean burning fire. Be passionate, but have that fire burn cleanly as opposed to a dirty fire, like one with dirty smoke that everyone's choking on, you know, and. And to just be aware of my presence when I enter a room, I think the shadow side of that is not feeling like I don't want to show up. I feel contagious if I'm in a bad mood or I'm. And that's why today I'm like, should I cancel? I don't want to be down on the podcast. That'd be the end of the world.

You're getting into some really interesting territory here, because when you push past the comfort zone, the comfort zone in your youth may have been, I'm only going to show up when I have a shiny, happy smile on my face. And that's something we typically learn from our parents or anybody who grew up in the 50s. There are no weeds in my garden. Everything's perfect all the time, and it's not real or authentic. But when you push past the comfort zone and you get into the field of possibility, it comes part and parcel with complete uncertainty, total vulnerability, fear, all that stuff. But if you're willing to hang in that space, something magical typically unfolds. That's the gift you get for putting the brave face on. But I thought it might be cool to talk through the three permissions around you today, and I'm happy to talk through them as well. These are the three permissions that we explore with the guests on this Epic Life podcast. We hold that there are three permissions that give us access to our highest expression. These are the permission to chill, which I look at as permission to be with what is, or the permission to find stillness and let the inner voice speak. You know, meditation's a big part of my deal, but permission to chill. The second one is permission to feel all the feels, which is what you and I were just getting into. I'm gonna show up whatever comes with me today and just see how it rolls. That's access to our full humanity, which is really rare by in the online space because everyone is. There's so much angling and posturing. It's crazy making. And then the final third one is permission to glow in the dark, which I feel you just kind of have a natural gift for Jenny Blake. So that's full expression and sharing your wisdom with everybody. Which of these three permissions speaks to you today and. Or which of the three permissions either to chill, feel all the feels, or glow in the dark would you like to pursue today?

They're all so good. And I love this. Choose your own adventure. I just have to ask you more about permission to glow in the dark. Thank you for the kind words, but I didn't even know when I first read it. What does this mean? But it's so compelling, and I love how it's stated in this fun way. I'd love to hear what that means. And then we could riff on it.

Oh, yeah. So glow in the dark. We've recently made another distinction. And there's glowing in the light, which is just like the whole other level. Glowing in the light is the completely unapologetic full expression and not worrying about being too much for people. So Ani DiFranco is a great example of this. She's been rocking her truth and her activism and her music for 30 years, and she still continues to show up as this total ball of joy and possibility for so many people.

That's you as well. That's you and your outfits.

Oh, geez, well, you know, talk to my kids. Between the witching hour of work time to getting food on the table, I might be glowing with the fires of anger, but, yeah, it's glowing in the dark is the bravery it takes to put your work out there in a world that may not embrace it. So there's so much darkness and chaos and confusion right now, and climate change, political discourse, I mean, you name it. There's uncertainty everywhere. And I believe that a huge portion of our work is to be a lightworker, to put something out there that gives people. You've done so much for people, myself included. When I was leaving corporate four years ago, your book becomes kind of a lifeline for people like, hey, if I did it, you can do it too. And I feel like that's a glow in the dark process to get through all that uncertainty or get off the quote, unquote corporate teat and into the. And into the real work of being an entrepreneur. So, yeah, that's glowing in the dark. And if you want to go for broke, you can pursue glowing in the light.

Oh, love, love, love it. So good. Yeah, it's interesting when you were sharing both.

Permission to glow in the light is not easy. My dad calls it the. He wrote a book called the Bliss Engine and.

Oh, wow.

Yeah, it's kind of. It's quirky, it's awesome. If you.

Sounds amazing.

Gotta meet my dad because he's kind of. He's truly one of a kind. But the Bliss Engine, he talks about how as humans, we have a hard time experiencing and allowing our bliss, that actually we're more comfortable in the dark. And when things get too blissful or we get too happy. And I used to have this. We either try to numb out with food or with drink or with video games, with anything at all that one could numb out with, or we just. We kill our bliss somehow because it's so uncomfortable to exist there. So glowing in the light is not easy. I remember when my first book was coming out, life after college. I was driving and I kept having the thought, what if I die? What if I die tomorrow? And that's how I. That's how I realized that I must be onto something. This must be a soul goal type project, because I'm actually afraid that if I die, this work won't get out. And the same thing happened with Pivot. I actually said to my brother, if I die, please get in touch with Natalie, my editor, and make sure that this book still comes out. And I meant it truly, legitimately. That and There was that thought again. And it was when I started a meditation practice and I made it through the dip that I describe and pivot, the real low moment. And I started to feel equanimity every day. I started to feel peace. And I remember thinking, is this a joke? Like, why is this happening one month in a row? And I'm like, when is the other shoe gonna drop? And I kept wondering. It was, like, suspiciously calm from a mind that I joked in a blog post once that if I had 10,000 hours of anything in my life, it was neuroses. So I have 10,000 hours of neuroses. That was the skill that I had cultivated in my 20s and my teens through meditation and this permission to chill and permission to feel all the feels, that equanimity started to become the norm. But I was just so not used to it and. And accepting it and accepting goodness, you know, and not immediately killing it with that feeling. Well, but what if it all goes away tomorrow and I still correct myself? Like, I'll. I'll land a big client and I'll think, but they could cancel at any time. What a shitty thought, you know? But what if I get another one just like it? And so I try to catch myself when I limit myself or my happiness or accomplishments in that way.

You bring up such a great point, by the way. I agree. I want to meet your dad. He sounds like Rad Dad 1.0. I study ontological coaching and practice ontological coaching, which is based in being. So you learn all these distinctions of when people are able to be in their full essence or their being versus when they step out into survival mode. And survival mechanism or survival mode looks like posturing, worrying, freaking out, getting impatient. All the things that humans do just to stay safe. Because we do think we're gonna die all the time. I mean, in the news. And all the circumstances of life on earth reinforce that you could die at any time. I love how goth your first book release was. That was so goth. Jenny Blake. I remember when I met my wife 20 years ago. Well, we started dating 25 years ago. I was so in love with her. I was convinced I had to die because she was starting to like me. And things were going so incredibly well. I couldn't be with the poss that I could build a life with this woman who I've just held in such high regard. And now looking back, I know we've been married 20 years, we have three kids, and it's insane. And often we do what we do. We take each other for granted. You know, at any given minute, it's so much harder to be with the really, really good, juicy things, because I feel like these are the things that God wants us to have and we just don't feel worthy of it, honestly. But when we practice. I like your dad's approach. And the other book that comes up for me is Gay Hendricks the Big Leap.

Oh, I love that book. That book was foundational for me.

I've given it to so many people. But just the upper limiting beliefs. You know, we hit a ceiling eventually because we cannot be with how good things are. And I notice when I'm rolling on a weekend, you know, having Jonathan and the whole good life family at my house. Like, the vibe is so high, and I'm riding my scooter over to work today in the sunshine to talk to Jenny Blake on my podcast. Like, I'm just so geeked that those are the times I want to eat like, crap or, you know, dip into my, you know, crappy bag of worry tricks or whatever. But I think the game is to notice and to name it and then to get back to staying in the vibe, if possible.

Yes, you mentioned a couple things, too, so I love how you called it. Gosh, I didn't even have a term for the way that I live until I learned more about the concept of memento mori. And I realized that for at least 10 years now I have this weird thing where I wonder if each time I interact with my family member, if. What if they die tomorrow? And this is the last interaction I had. And it's weird because it puts a lot of pressure on me. Sometimes I kind of hold myself to this incredibly high bar of. Of speed. Right speech, right action, you know, because it's a little stressful if you're worried that everyone's gonna die. I was in a bad mood, or I. I snapped, or I. Man, I really. I struggle with kind of beating myself up. But on the other hand, that is the reality that anybody that we love can die tomorrow. So in a way, I don't see it as like this. It's most days, it's not this oppressive thing, but it's a way that keeps me very grateful and present and aware, and it keeps me zoomed out. Like, even now, newly married. And like, you have such a beautiful family, Casey. So I'm sure you. You have all kinds of tricks up your sleeve. I think. Will I care about this when we're 60 or when we're 80 or if I look back on what I'm stressing about or what? I'm like, nitpicking. If I start doing something like that, I really try to zoom out and. And if. If my husband were to die tomorrow, would I be upset that I had picked this fight? And so it actually does keep me more chill because I'm like, this is really silly to waste a second of our precious life on.

It's that attachment that we all. This material life, this material body, this body that's perishable. It is. And that's the gift of it, too. Because people like you get wired with this urgency to create and to serve and to give and to love, and that's a big freaking deal. It reminded me of the story, this quick, beautiful little story when Paramahansa Yogananda, who wrote Autobiography of a Yogi, he's the guru whose teachings I study and follow. He was so much to so many people by the time he left his body in 1952, that his closest disciples could start to tell that his time on earth was coming to a close. He was only 59 years old, but he was dropping warnings like, this is not going to continue forever. I have other places to be. They said, master, what are we going to do when you're no longer here in physical form? And he said, when I am gone, only love can take my place.

If there's anything I want to bring into the family dynamic or to figure out a way to release that attachment, because I wouldn't want to leave my house or anybody to leave my house ever if I was constantly worried about the them not coming back. I realized that I get the gift of loving them and enjoying them and being part of their lives now. And it's, you know, maybe that's enough.

That's what people say. Having kids is like having your heart exist outside of your body.

Oh, God.

And. And you're. And you're constantly covered with, like, either vomit or something sticky. I mean, yeah, it's both of those things.

I really believe, even though I don't have kids yet. But business, intimate relationships and parenting, these are the three, or at least three major epic paths to transformation and spiritual evolution. Because I can imagine with kids talk about not being able to control things, like we think, oh, in business, well, I can't control my clients. I can't control the market. But with children, you love them so much and your heart's running around outside your body, and yet every day you probably have to release that urge to want to control or keep them safe.

It's all spiritual growth. I think at the end of the day, if you're crazy enough to be an entrepreneur or crazy enough to be a parent, you might as well learn what it has to teach you. And a lot of times those lessons are pretty brutal and you have no control over it.

So much of the teaching comes from suffering. And I love Byron Katie's thought on this, that suffering, any thought that causes suffering, is an alarm clock waking us up to something that isn't true. And so, so we could either suffer by looking at what's happening in our business, or you with your kids or anything, but it's an opportunity to reframe. And that's why I love this circles back to your mindset of playing change as a game. Because if we see everything that is reflected and physically part of our world as a teacher, then for me at least I'll say that that that reduces a good amount of stress that just comes from reading a situation or interpreting it in a, in a way that's not helpful for me or taking it personally, like as if anyone else's actions are personal to me somehow or even. I mean I've read so many personal development books, probably like you over the years, and I used to kind of scoff at self compassion like ugh, all right, we get it.

We get it because it feels like Stuart Smalley on Saturday Night Live, like I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it, people like me. Yeah, it feels corny.

Really bristles at this common notion that you have to love yourself before you can love anyone else. And I wrote a blog post called Self Help Formulas are Bullshit. And I really thought, and I still stand by my belief, which is that sometimes we learn to love ourselves through and with and from other people. And if we all held ourselves back from love just waiting until we loved ourselves full time, all the time, it's not going to happen. It doesn't, it doesn't work like that. And I just feel that that's actually quite a limiting belief that no one else can love you until you love yourself. Now I get it. I get the sentiment that's at the core of that and I absolutely my life and relationships improved the more I started to have self compassion and just positive self talk. But it also happened as equally as parallel as with being in relationship.

I love that you're bringing this up because I'm getting ready to launch something around building circles circ of people. And we are typically only able to experience ourselves fully through the eyes and the lens and the mirror or the namaste of other people. Jonathan always says, you can't read the label from inside the jar. And the thing I learned over and over, especially in coaching other people who accomplish so much and all of us can work on self love, is that the people that we attract into our lives are a reflection of our own self love, self value. We're very blessed and privileged to have great people and teachers around us, many whom we know in real life, not just on the Internet. And there's no limit to how that could expand and include to, you know, mirror our own self love. So I. And it's all seasonal too, because I don't know if you experienced this, but there are seasons and especially the wintertime in Ohio because the overcast, brutal sky is so, you know, damning for our emotions. My self talk is so crappy that if I pass by myself in a mirror or a reflective surface, I'm surprised that I'm not staring back at some mutant or something. I'm like, wow, my self talk must really be crap this month. And then today it's one of those days. I got out of bed and I made myself do the Stuart Smalley thing. I looked myself in the eyes in the mirror. I said, I love you, man. You're doing a pretty good job. You're doing everything you can because it's a hard enough job when you're beating yourself down.

Right. You described the weather blues so well. Because I definitely am affected by weather. And it's true, sometimes it's just seasons. Actually, I'm curious where you stand on the concept of spiritual bypassing and even how you define it. To my understanding, that comes from John Wellwood, but maybe there was someone even, even before him. John Wellwood is an incredible author, by the way. If you're listening to this and you haven't read his work, I'll link to it in the show notes and I'm sure Casey will too. Spiritual bypassing. So I think it's such an interesting line between feeling down and saying, come on, just. You gotta just turn your self talk around. And oh well, this just must be an alarm clock waking you up. And there's all the self kind of the tools that we learn and teach in meditation and mindfulness. And I'm. I'd love to hear more about your Kriya yoga practice as well.

Yeah.

And then sometimes for me, and now I do feel I have more awareness and can be the watcher. I can look at myself and see, see, I'm just down right now. I'm discouraged and it's okay. And I'm not actually trying to fix it. It's just saying, yeah, you are working hard. Yes, you are frustrated right now. And letting myself be there for even a few days, which there's a mindfulness part of my. I call it the boardroom in your brain. In my boardroom is like, pick it up, girl. Though, you know, these are just erroneous thoughts. Like, turn them around and. But I'm not always ready to do that. So I'm curious how you navigate this with your boyfriend.

That's a great question. You know, I happen to be on a yogic path. It's more of a scientific collection of practices, techniques that are designed to give you or to move you towards a relationship with God or divinity, Divine mother, call it whatever you want to. And I happen to be really obsessed with interviewing amazing Buddhist teachers. Like, I have a good friend, Susan Piver, another one, Lodro Rinzler, who has Mindful Studios there in New York City. And I think that the Buddhist tradition is better about what you described, which is permission to feel all the feels to be with what is in the sense of emotions. It's okay to have a crappy day and allow that to be enough.

And some of us, like me, or maybe you sometimes, that are just wired to fix it into something shinier or brighter or more positive.

It tends to be futile. It tends to be exhausting. And I'm just finding more and more the longer I live is that it's seasonal. In some cases, there's an overarching arc of it and then there's also a day to day experience of it where it's not always about trying to fix it. It's about trying to really feel into where you are and to take the next step from there. And you'll have to give me the Cliff Notes synopsis of spiritual bypassing. But I don't. I try not to hide behind my spirituality in the sense that the world's a jacked up place and spirituality is the only answer. It's like no. Spirituality is about bringing whatever you can to a dark place and trying to make something slightly better out of it if you can.

So. Well said. And I love how you tied it into one of your three permissions. Permission to feel all the feels.

Oh, yeah, It's. Well, the thing you learn is like. Like nobody can give us permission except for ourselves. And sometimes it helps. If you're on a meditation retreat, I will give you permission to chill, no doubt. But I can only go so far as you're Willing to give yourself that permission. And I love that you are so in tune with your emotional intelligence. I mean, that's the essential qualities of emotional intelligence is being aware where you are and letting that be okay. Giving name to it and then kind of seeing where you want to go from there.

Without permission to feel the feelings, then we reject half our experience. At least I do. If I'm not giving myself permission, I end up rejecting. And then it compounds the stress because then there's a narrative, well, I shouldn't be feeling this way. How I think of spiritual bypassing is that we learn all these helpful tools around mindfulness and even extreme ownership, radical acceptance, all these tools that are genuinely helpful day to day. But spiritual bypassing becomes where a feeling I don't like has entered the system. And then you just start, you just either brush it aside like, well, light and love, it's all good, you know, and you kind of don't allow that feeling to exist. And it's almost using these tools to bypass actual, real, messy human emotion.

Yeah, like white out or scouring the stains or whatever. That's why I love what you said about your meditation. Meditation practice, because that's what I discovered. You know, it took me 12 years to form a daily practice and I help people do that now because it is that proactive. I consider it a spiritual practice, but it also has a lot of other tactical, real world benefits and value that if you're doing that work proactively, you're more likely to be aware when you have the feels come up. So you don't need to slap a happy face on it. You could just be with it. But yeah, there are definite times where I get tricked into bypassing. My coach always points this out to me, like if I use my spirituality to judge anybody else, he's like, wow, man, sounds super spiritual. Yeah. This is my guru talking through him saying, dude, lighten the hell up and don't use my teachings to judge anybody, you know, including yourself.

Michael and I had the idea. We have a whole T shirt line. One of them is Namas, go away. The other one is, I'm more spiritual than you. Which is like so funny because there becomes this, like, who's more spiritual Competition somehow or competitive wokeness is a big thing happening.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We just took our family of five for a weekend trip to New York City for a family reunion. And by the end of the weekend, I gave everybody in our family superhero names that point to their most annoying feature. So my son, my son's is called the Pest. And my teenage daughter's called Outrage. My wife, I was calling Mommy Furious. And I'm called Namastop, which I'm spiritual, but I will do the praying hands and then smack both kids in the face at the same time. I don't physically smack my children, but I am adamant about them stopping when they are annoying me. So it's something we can joke about. But it's also. It's kind of just part of the human experience is to figure out where the spirituality sits.

That is so funny to make superhero names out of an annoying quality. I've never heard of that. I've only ever heard people, like, figure out what your superpowers are. You know, how funny. Like, I think we should all. Everyone listening to this episode should just figure out what's our most annoying quality.

I actually have questions for you around your JB 3.0 business renaissance.

I love to dig into it.

Yeah. Because there's so much change that seems to be speeding up with you. I got to know you more last summer at camp as you're heading into seminary. So I'd love to hear a little bit of the journey through that or out of it and kind of where you're taking your business right now. Because I have four questions that might be really fun to work with in terms of closing the chapter on your first eight years and moving you into the next eight, if you're game for that.

That's such a gift. Thank you. Yes. And I would love to hear your take on those as well. School was such an interesting experiment that I probably still don't know what the point of it all was. When I decided to go to Union Theological Semin, I had been following a thread that by having a podcast at that point, it was four years. Now it's about five, off and on. Wow. The podcast guided me to it because I realized that I was no longer interested in talking about the nuts and bolts of career change. Business. Yes. I love business building, but I'm like, this is weird. Why don't I want to interview peak performers on how they got to where they are in their career? And. And the word peak performer. I started to become allergic to it. Like this obsession with peak performance. It just drove me crazy. And instead, I was more interested in guests that had heart, that had soul, that had spiritual practices of any faith or denomination. I was really interested in what drives people, what calls people. And I started saying no to guests that just had a business book coming out. It wasn't interesting to me. And that that interest in the intersection of faith and work and the spiritual practices that underpin the work that we do in the world really became my North Star. And that's how I somehow ended up at seminary, because I'd been considering divinity school, and even when I went and I didn't know Union existed. It's a partner school to Columbia, until a new friend over coffee, mentioned it. And two weeks later, I had put in an application. They were due in two weeks. And I figured, I'm gonna just apply. I can always decide whether to or not once I know if I got in. And by the time I decided to go for it, we met. Well, we met for the second time. GLP was. It ended the day prior to orientation. So I was like the night before going, and I called it on my podcast was put yourself in the path of pivot. That I don't really know what I'm doing, but I'm putting myself in the path of this content. Studying these topics. What is God, the nature of existence, nature of world religions and the history and anthropology, sociology, all of it, like, incredible content. And I'm putting myself in the path of whoever I might meet at school as well. And I did a semester and a half and then just. I had not yet figured out the burnout part of the equation. And moving beyond burnout is a big mantra of mine. It's a little bit oriented toward what none of us want, But I've been there so many times that with. I'm always trying to keep this in mind. Mind. And within the span of four months, I got married, bought a house, moved into that house, and unbelievable. Was trying to juggle school and was trying to juggle my business, building incredible momentum that I'd been working toward for eight years. And I started to get, like, three big clients at once, asked me to book five gigs. And it was during the semester. And at that point I realized I have to make a choice. And so I decided to pause school. But what's interesting is that I had already been feeling more drained by school in the second semester, and I couldn't figure out why. I didn't know what to do. I was having doubts. And there was this narrative of, like, but I told everyone I was going, and a lot of people gave me great feedback about the attachment wants to.

Get its claws in you.

And I thought, I'm not a quitter. I had every story and every attachment so sort of entered into my mind, I'm not a quitter. This isn't who I am. But wouldn't it Be nice to get a master's degree, you know, all these, like, thoughts. And I just surrendered it, which is a practice I learned from Tosha Silver and her book Outrageous Openness, which is a delight. And I said, show me the. Show me a sign. I don't know what to do here.

And that's when, within 24 hours, I got three emails from the clients. So there had already been uncertainty brewing. And also I felt the culture at the school was somewhat toxic. Although I'm trying to take personal responsibility because I don't want to just blame it on the culture. But I can just say that I left every day feeling drained and discouraged, and I hadn't yet cracked the nut on how to show up as a watcher and observer in that space without being drained by it. And I think I was getting there toward the end. But then the business stuff sort of picked up and answered it for me.

What are you bringing back into the. The 3.0 vision of your business from that seminary experience or the, the, you know, the whole cycle you just described? Like, what was the gift in it?

I learned in a. In a technical and textbook sense, I learned so much. And that was really important to me. I feel like I turned the lights on of so many world religions. And that was really important because I grew up not really involved or understanding any of it. And likewise, I was born in San Francisco, raised in the Bay Area. There's really not a culture of understanding religion very much out there. So just that alone was already something to read the Bible, not all of it, but a lot of it. And understand how much of our culture has biblical references, names.

It's incredible.

Wow. I had no idea. I had no idea. And then what was just so interesting, like, being part of this Uber. It is the most progressive, liberal kind of school in the country or seminary in the country. And just being right in the thick of. Of social justice warrior land. Like, there's a lot of it that I love and respect and appreciate of the work people are doing in the world and activism work. And then I also feel that I saw and had a front row seat to the part of it that is not being the change. Like, where it gets really judgy and exclusive. And I just felt that in a way, as a white Western woman from America, colonial power, Like, I just felt so unwelcomed there. And. And no matter how much I sort of tried to show up with positive energy and make friends, I really felt. I don't know how to explain it, but I kind of. I really Try to live by, be love, show up as love and try not to judge. And I just didn't. The class periods were so contentious and there was so much almost like micro attacking people for what they would say or how they would say it. And I just realized, like, that's not going to build any bridges. So I saw the efforts people were making and I also saw where it falls short, where if we're too critical of other people who are genuinely trying their best, we're not going to get anywhere. It's just going to drive people away.

What was your vision for yourself as a businesswoman on the other side of seminary? So say you completed as you entered in with all of your intention to finish. What was the vision of yourself on the other side of that?

Well, I was studying interreligious engagement, so I really wanted to be able to speak intelligently to, with, for, by people practicing all kinds of religions and ultimately build bridges. So that's my intention is how do we, what do we all have in common? How do we build bridges? And what, how can I be more inclusive of everybody's religious background and sort of pull that in or have conversations on the podcast past and because I think.

I think spiritual practices, whether we tie them to specific religions or not, they are what pull us through times of change and grief and suffering. And that for so many people. Even I do work with men and women who are either incarcerated or formerly incarcerated through defy, which is a program that teaches them to transform. Their hustle is their tagline that, that for many of them, finding religion is a light for them in a very dark physical space and a dark place in their life, and it pulls them out. And I'm very compelled by how spiritual and religious practices can help us navigate by tapping into God, the universe, something bigger and more expansive than ourselves, especially when we feel down or discouraged. Yeah.

Something I'm really present to with you is that you are already unpacking the soul and where it feels fits in your business. And you were open to that and being guided by it. I mean, certainly your dad's influence has to be part of that, right? If he wrote a book called the Bliss Engine. But it's also to go in and stimulate the head part of ourselves with knowledge and studying and turning papers in on time and all that stuff that goes with school is one thing, but then it's another, deeper part of your path to be out in the world applying it. My guess is that your soul had other plans to be out in the world and not in A classroom arguing about minutiae when you could be out saying what you just said and touching so many people with it.

It's true. I realized how much I love school, how much I love learning. And again, you just get a front row seat to humanity, you know, and a front row seat to the light. And nothing I said is a sweeping statement about everybody there. But I know, Casey, you work with companies looking at culture. And so I also had such a fun, fascinating look at this very interesting culture. There are books being written about what's happening in higher education. We see what's going on with university presidents being demanded that they step down because of how they handle certain social justice situations. People fall. And we. We see. There was a book that just came out around basically, fractures. And I'm not assuming that everyone that listens to this podcast is, like, on the left or right of the political spectrum. That's really not. I don't really. My podcast isn't very political because I am trying to welcome everyone's welcome. I just really care about fairness and treating people kindly and with love and compassion. But specifically within the left, there's a fracturing that's happening of, like, pointing fingers.

Oh, the outrage. Yeah. It's constant.

That creates more divisiveness among people who are trying to organize for a greater cause. So I am fascinated by that from a culture standpoint point.

Yeah, it's that safety bubble. I was talking to my wife about this this morning. There's a safety bubble that happens in higher education. And if I look at your kind of trend for your career, I mean, I joked with you just before we recorded. You are built for speed. You know, like you could.

You.

You could easily be a monster executive at Google right now had you stayed. And it would have cost the world a couple books and all the people you touch and all of your kind of soul work to do. So it's no surprise to me that you' got what you needed there in the time you got it. And degree optional.

Thank you.

We should work through these questions because I feel like they'll be applicable to where you are right now with this stuff, because I sense a little bit of. There's still a little bit of stuff to surrender and release, possibly.

All right, let's do it.

Yeah, these are great four questions. So a little bit of context. These questions are a condensed version of something I learned in my training last year with Accomplishment Coaching. Accomplishment Coaching is the preeminent trainer of ontological coaching. And a big tool in Ontological coaching is what we Call completion. So you want to release the residual old gunky energy that we tend to be carrying around with us so you can move boldly forward into the new thing you're creating. And we're all perpetually incomplete about a million different things at any given time throughout the day. So, like, what somebody said to us over breakfast could still be in our field. You know what I mean? So the goal of these questions is to. I condensed them down from 13 down to 4 so I could keep me and my team moving as we're launching something. We'll do this around the context of getting complete on your first eight years and kind of setting the intention for JB 3.0 business renaissance.

Sounds amazing. Thank you.

Cool. Hell, yeah. And this is so exciting for me to do with you, by the way, of all people, because you were such a beacon and a light as I was transitioning out of corporate, as I mentioned. So this will be for me, completion on my first, first three and a half years as I go forth into a new chapter here in the fall.

Incredible.

So the first question is.

How'S it going in this moment? What are you present to in this moment?

I am present to growing pains that for all my adrenaline and excitement and momentum of building JB 3.0, I'm reminded of the gap. Gap that I talk about in Pivot, that anytime we're growing and we set a vision for what success looks like, there's a gap. And so what I'm experiencing in this moment today is growing pains. Having a vision of creating a sustainable business that doesn't just rely on me so that if anything does happen to me, there's that memento mori again. It keeps going and it keeps, keeps running. And also less morbid version is just, I have even more time and life freedom. My husband and I are getting a puppy soon, so I want to be around for that dog. I want to like. I don't want to feel that I have to be stuck at the computer when he's around because I love dogs. And oh my gosh, I'm just counting down the days. So the growing pains are just this gap where I. I feel all the things, feeling all the feels, Frustration, tired down, wondering if I can do it. Imposter syndrome. You know, working so hard and then, then just not yet seeing the results, but knowing in my head to be patient, but in my heart, just.

Just, just present to all of it. That's where I'd say I am right now. And, and remember, trying to remember, to be proud of these first eight years. And what is working also, as I say in pivot, which is why I'm so thankful you're doing these four questions with me now, because I'm. It's so easy to focus on just what I haven't created yet, or the scale or systems that I haven't yet achieved, which would be ignoring what I've done for the last eight.

Yeah, you're speaking directly to what I call the gap between what is and what could be. So you see the vision of what's over there on the opposing cliff of what could be. It's all the possibility. It's everything that's going to be created. All the systems, all the success. And there's a gap between before you make the leap that's filled with vuca. It's a military term for volatility, uncertainty, complexity, ambiguity. And it just brings up all those headless horsemen of, who am I to do this? I suck at this. It's like, well, you've kind of been a badass in this space for eight years. I think you're gonna be okay. But how I would answer it is what I'm present to. Gosh, ditto on everything you said. I have the three kids and two fur puppies, but I'm older than you, and the things that come up for me are, do I have the energetic gas in the tank to really create this vision? Is it selfish to do this while my kids are the ages they are? Can this epic life sometimes warp into some stupid vanity project if it's not something that's really, really helping people? Will the people that I want to sell this new program to really raise their hands in a compelling way and form that quorum, we need to do it right. All the uncertainty of a launch and also the gratitude of just being able to do this work and to have these conversations and still pay the bills and, you know, just have that privilege of doing this work that I always said I was going to do, to just actually be present, to doing it once in a while. Yeah, it's. It's all that mixed bag of nuts. Where do you. Here's a little sub question to it. Where do you feel this in your body? Where does it show up in your body?

Well, this morning I woke up, and my ears were, like, weirdly blocked. It's not. They weren't ringing. It wasn't that I felt like I was insulated. So it was very funny because today I had a physical reaction, which my body always talks to me in these days. I know exactly When I'm stressed because some body thing will manifest itself and I love the signals my body gives. Like, I really do try to listen. So yeah, today this. This almost as if I woke up with headphones on or this extra background noise. And I think right now I'm making a metaphor about it. I don't know if this is what it means or not, but interestingly, a lot of the stress has come from me seeing what other people are doing and trying to compare the way you do a launch to my aversions and preferences. And I'm way more chill about these things. And as soon. And it happens to me every time, and it has for eight years, as soon as I try to start building a launch according to all the best practices and what misery. I. I am miserable. At the same time, I want to do my best. So maybe the ear thing is also just blocking out the noise. And it's a. It's a time to eyes back on my own paper because I think every now and then, coming up for air and seeing what's going on in the industry, who's doing what, what are helpful shortcuts or systems that I could learn. It's helpful to an extent. But now I. I cannot, I do not believe in working on a process to get to an outcome that you don't enjoy. Like, for me, how I work on something is as important as the product that I create. It's crucial. The DNA that's baked into that product and any potential outcomes is there. So if I'm unhappy, there's no point. I should just stop right now.

See, I think that was the biggest gift of your seminary experience is kind of testing that hypothesis and how important that is for you because everything since you've come back last month with your podcast, the topic topics the. You know how you're. You're much more in tune with your body and what sits well with you and what you can and cannot tolerate. And that is great. I mean, that's basically tuning your instrument to be way more receptive. And I heard your intentions in going into seminary as openness and attunement. Attunement to others, to the religions of the world, the spiritual teachings. I say freaking game on. Jenny Blake. You. You got. You got what you came for.

Thank you.

In my body. It shows up in my feet. Every morning my feet ache and I. I went running yesterday. But I sometimes process that as like, oh, I'd rather just hang in bed or why do I have to go hoe this long, hard road? Or whatever. And then I shake it off, I do my exercises, I meditate, and it's gone. That's where it usually sits for me. Here's the second question. What are you willing to release and. Or surrender?

A constant practice and one that I even teach, but is releasing shoulds. I just, They're. They get sneaky. They come in for me at sneakier and sneakier levels of shoulds, where sometimes I don't realize I'm doing it. But release the shoulds of how things need to happen and when and. And probably surrender. I mean, I live by surrender. Truly. I think it's the only way. It's the only way I have run my business for, especially these last few years. But it's. It's interesting juxtaposing that with, with, With a strategy and with a. It's kind of trying to reconcile the two. But I think right now, today, surrendering a timeline and continuing to release my attachment to the results. Like, whenever I think about launching something, part of the reason that I create stress is I develop expectations around what a successful launch would be, how many people, how much revenue. There's a saying, expectations are resentments and waiting. And so I can continue to release, release attachment to any expectations, any shoulds about how things should be created, built, or launched, and then continue to surrender. Anything that doesn't spark joy. In terms of how I'm doing, it means that there's an opportunity to rethink my approach.

I'm at a point in my business, three and a half years in, where I would kill to be where you are in eight years.

Yeah, I mean, same as you. Like, even hearing your systems. And my narrative goes, I have this, the mean voice that's like, you've been doing this eight years. How come you. You haven't figured this out already? But also, I knew when you said, let's go through these four questions to completion. Isn't it always perfect how they say coach and coachee? It's always whatever comes to you or even friends. Whenever you give advice, it's what you yourself need to hear. So I'm so grateful for you, like, even launching into this part of the conversation.

Thank you. The thing that I learned from one of my spiritual teachers, when I was transitioning out of corporate and I was recreating a career and a. And my income from scratch while we were remodeling our dream house, so I was spending tons of money every day with no income and having five people to provide health insurance for and all that stuff, it was like literally my Worst nightmare in terms of safety net. And she said, and this isn't to knock anybody who works in corporate organizations. Make the world go round. In fact, I would argue that you have so many more resources than me and Jenny are talking about or have access to right now. Like, entrepreneurship can be hard. Being out on your own or being responsible for everything. There's many pluses to organizational life.

And both of us have corporate clients. So they still feed the ecosystem that we're in.

Exactly. And I have so much love and empathy for what they go through each day, and I think that's what gets us hired. What my teacher told me, she said, you know, for you, Casey, corporate was a spiritually lazy way to earn a living. And what she meant was, if I stayed in that environment, I wouldn't have to push myself out into the these farther realms of discomfort and step fully into the possibility of what I could become in this life. And I felt that that same vibe was on your school experience this year, was that you could go there and you could soak up the knowledge, but it was kind of spiritually lazy not to be out in the world applying it.

And it's not to judge anybody who's soaking that up. That's awesome. But it's not the mission that your soul is on, which is, you know, it's. It's a gift. And it's a pain in the ass a lot of days too, because it's so. You know, I would much rather just, like, show up to an office full of people and get my steady paycheck some weeks and whatever, you know, what does it cost us in the process? Right. Here's the third question, is, what are you willing to celebrate and. Or receive?

Ooh, love this question, too. These are so good. Oprah says celebrate what you want to see. More of which I try to try to remember. There's a saying about marriage. How do you stay married? What's the best advice to stay married? Don't get divorced. And I think that it applies to entrepreneurship as well. What's the best way to stay in business? Don't give up. Don't quit. Just don't throw in the towel. And if there is something that I can celebrate, it's my total, utter commitment to not giving up on my business. I. I think it's the best investment I can make in my. My career in. Is just building this business to provide for me and my family and serve the world and connect with amazing people like you, Casey, and everyone who's listening. So I'm Celebrating my just total stubbornness to stay in business. And then I am extremely stubborn about not like with my integrity. So I will celebrate, you know, even something people now are saying, well, you have to do Facebook ads. Everyone else is doing, doing it. And I stubbornly won't do it because I don't use Facebook and I don't really appreciate being tracked around the Internet by ads. So. But I'm foregoing probably a lot of revenue and systematized income. But for now, my truth around it. And I'll celebrate that stubbornness because somehow, some way, in unseen ways, I'll be okay because I'm sticking to my own compass, even if on the surface it looks like a well, everyone else is doing it kind of situation. How about you?

Are you open to a little reflection?

Sure. Thank you.

I think this may help in terms of your breakthrough for your business. In our coaching, we embrace breakdowns because breakdowns precede breakthroughs. And my hypothesis on you, Jenny Blake, is that you've been moving so fast this past year through this kind of transformation that's taking place kind of the reintegration between soul and business at a bigger level, that your breakdown is in celebration. Your breakdown is in not savoring enough because you haven't been allowed to because of the velocity that it's happening. And that's precisely what your breakthrough could be in should you choose to take me up on it and practice. So if you practice, if you practice savoring, I mean, you have so much to celebrate right now. You have freaking the man, the house, the whole new life. It's like this layer of skin or this cocoon buster and you have this whole new thing going. So it's. We could get stuck in the. But I'm not there yet. But I'm not there yet. But we can really get hardcore about savoring.

Well, thank you so much. Thank you for that reflection and reminder. And I think that's the growing pains as well. Like, it's a whole identity shift and responsibility shift on every level, which is very motivating. You with a family of five, it does activate a lot of fear, which activates me wanting to like build, build, build. But you're right that stopping savoring, celebrating and just continually acknowledging what is and being grateful for it is so important. And I really appreciate the reminder.

Oh, yeah, totally. And I'm happy to send you any of my bag of tricks tools that have served me in that way because I get. I'm very easily redirected into. But I gotta get back to work, doing, doing, doing. And it's like, no, this is all a being thing. Like, if you. If you cultivate the being thing and keep on opening that up, it's going to attract everything you could possibly handle and then some, you know, and you said we might share the same word or intention for the year, this year, which is abundance. And I capitalize the dance part of it because I want to be able to. Yeah, I want to be able to dance and play with it in a way where so often we become victims of our own abundance. You create, and then all of a sudden you're like, I'm too over scheduled. I'm too busy. I'm burning out. Well, how do we keep dancing with it to allow more in? And it's through celebration and receiving support. And you seem to be doing awesome at receiving. I would prescribe, and I will be happy to be your party pal.

If anyone is a party pal, it is you.

Damn it, Jenny Blake. If you won't celebrate your success, I will. Every day, 24 7. I will take the fall on this. What I'm willing to celebrate and receive are just the gorgeous allies that keep flowing in and out of my life, yourself included. All the staff and team from Good Life Project, my new team that are working on this epic life. I'm willing to receive just the beautiful clients that drop like angels on my path. They just come at the perfect time from God. I'm willing to receive and celebrate, gosh, the health and vitality of everybody in my family right now. Like, everybody's packing the pool and enjoying summer, and I just want to kind of savor all that laughter while I'm. While the kids are still young and want to hang out with us and my scooter rides. I get to ride my Vespa every day to work, and it's not going to be much longer before it's too cold to do that.

That's all so beautiful. And I love what. What an incredible way that you describe your clients. Like angels arriving in perfect timing on your path, sent by God. Wow.

They are. I mean, they are. And. And if anybody's a total pain in the ass, that's my fault, you know? Like, I either attracted it or I'm feeding their gremlin, you know, But. But for the most part, they are just so. I learned way much more from them than they do from me. I get to hang out with them and I get to call them my coworkers, you know, and that's what I'm savoring here's. The last powerful question, because this is what activates, this is the activator of the completion process is based on the first three questions, based on how it's going, based on what you're willing to release and surrender, based on what you're willing to celebrate and receive. What is your next powerful declaration from this point? So a declaration is I will do what by what? And this action is in alignment with the three that precede it. So what will you do by when?

Oh, man. So good. If you have one, feel free to go first.

Okay. I've been resisting on and off for six months. This huge launch we're doing around this epic circle, it's essentially a mastermind program, but it's kind of so much more than that. That builds towards a retreat in Costa Rica and it integrates everything I know how to do around meditation and all this stuff. And I've had the who am I to do this? And the price point needs to be this because that's what it's worth and blah, blah, blah, blah. My next declaration from this moment is to lean in to the launch starting next week, like a freaking Olympic level ski jumper with no poles, leaning into the wind, off the skis and just seeing wherever the hell it takes me. And if it takes me until a face plant and a roll down the hill, that's cool too. But I am going to fly off the ramp knowing that I've done everything I can to get and attract all the right people for this. So. So that's my declaration is to be in my full power and full self care, firing in all cylinders as I head into next week.

That is amazing. I love the image of you just like flying with your skis. You have such a visual way of describing things. See, you must be telling me this at the perfect time because I'm also preparing for relaunching or reopening doors for momentum. And I think that's kind of what's causing some of the stress, is thinking about how I should launch, what it. What I should build. So I am going to declare to build. It's Momo 3.0. We've had momentum for five years, so it's not, it's not brand new or anything, but I'm going to build the new Momo 3.0. I'm creating an onboarding course called Pivot to Profit in exactly the way that soothes my soul. So that means two things. Both what I need to hear in this moment and what I would need to build. And also I. I Just hereby declare that I'm not going to build something that doesn't feel good to build whatever I feel that I should have gone in there or it should be, I'm not going to worry about it. And then I'll borrow from you and then proceed with the launch. My version of this, of a launch skier, I wish I could say it's like flying off with the skis pointed in the air and like ratting down the moguls. I'm like on a bunny slope, just chill. Just like, it's so easy. That's how I want to launch. I just.

Or maybe it could just be a ski lift up to the top of the mountain. I mean, like, I want even the kitty.

Because even as. Although I grew up skiing, off and on since I was five, never good, just once a year, ski lifts still kind of scare me. Like, being in the chair and even getting off used to really freak me out. I want to be on a little bunny thing where you sit on a circle and the rope just pulls you up this slope. I want the universe. God, I want that launch to just be guided. There's an invisible rope. I'm chilling, I'm relaxed. I'm looking up at the sky. And then we build and then we launch. And the launch is like a super fun green.

As your coach for two seconds here, what are the practices this week that support that whole vibe?

I think I just need to cut down. I know what all is possible. I need to just strip away and go to the essential schedules. Start there. Build what? The minimum viable pivot to profit version of that. The minimum viable launch. Like the minimum communications needed to say, hey, doors are open now. And then later, if I have energy and desire and motive and inspired motivation, then I can build more on top of that. But I think I need to just start and have that comfort of knowing it's already ready to go. Everything else I do is just going to be icing on the cake.

This is the audacious question, which is when you need to overcome imposter syndrome, you say, what if I've been preparing for this my entire life?

And if you have five years of momentum behind you, I mean, that's a hell of a lot of momentum. You know what I'm saying? So I heard trimming the bonsai, you know, clearing, distilling down to the essential. And then also, what are the practices that are going to get you to your breakthrough in savoring and celebrating? Celebration?

I don't know. I don't know. In this Moment because I'm like, I could say some one off thing, but I think what you're prescribing here, what I would need more than that is like a. Some sort of daily. But I will say this, I will say getting this puppy, it's going to be a German shepherd.

Ah, so much joy.

So much joy. That to me is a celebration of Michael getting married, having a house. I used to live in a. We. We were sharing a studio apartment for two years, both working from home. And I lived in that same apartment in that same building for seven years. So kind of allowing myself to take on the responsibility of a puppy, but also the joy. And I can't wait to do training with him and take him for walks and get out more. Like for me it is a celebration of life and puppy and dog and animal energy is so pure and beautiful. And so I guess part of. I'm not trying to project my celebration into the future, but I will say that part of what's driving all this hard work right now is, is like I do want to be able to celebrate. And I think the dog is kind of a manifestation of arriving at a place of such stability and a home that we can choose to have a pet if we want one. That like that alone is such a. Such a gift. And of course they say that dogs and cats probably, but are angels in fur coats.

Yeah, I heard a lot of celebration and savoring around home, building a home, decorating the home. More love, more space, more joy.

I like that.

Awesome.

Nice. How about you? What are your practices for your ski slope?

It is trail running. It is Kriya yoga. Consistently, every morning it's hugging the kids. It's just making it an art and not a job. Leaning on creativity versus being a slave to my computer. Older I get, the more I hate the computer. I'm good at some of the things in there, but it's like the Matrix. I want to be out in the real world talking to real humans like you and changing lives. So I'll do more of that through the launch and less of the computer.

Crap real quick because I didn't ask you, just for listeners, can you explain what Kriya Yoga is?

Oh, yeah. Kriya Yoga is basically the branches of yoga as we understand them in the West. It all kind of starts and ends with glutes and abs. We do body yoga, Hatha yoga, Kundalini yoga, you know, hot yoga. And that's great. But the ancient Rishis of India discovered that that those practices were to prepare the body for meditation. So Kriya Yoga is a system of meditation practices. And that particular technique, Kriya is breathing around the chakras of the spine, up and down from the base up to the crown. And in doing so, what they taught or discovered over thousands of years of doing this, was that one Kriya breath, which takes about 30 seconds up and down the spine, is equal to one lunar year of spiritual development. Wow. Yeah, it's a powerful practice. And if you want to learn more about it, to me, the best source is Autobiography of a Yogi. There's a chapter in there called the Science of Kriya Yoga where he really breaks down how it works and why it works. And since I started practicing, I took my vows to practice in 2013, and since practicing daily, I mean, it just accelerates so much transformation in my life. I mean, it's hard to even quantify at this point. But, yeah, Kriya Yoga, to me, is the path I'm supposed to be on.

And is that different from Kundalini Yoga? Because it sounds like it is, but they're similar in some way.

Yeah, it's more. And I'm no master of yoga by any stretch, so there's a lot of branches of yoga, but Kundalini, from what I understand, it's unlocking, unleashing, and harnessing that kind of root energy and powering up from the bottom to the top of the chakras. That might be a real butchering of what the practice is, but that's my understanding from friends that practice Kriya is more about working towards the crown, working from the crown, focusing into a deeper relationship with God. It's very little about the body. We want to still the body as much as possible, so we can kind of be free of it and work from our higher spiritual centers. Some days are good. Some days are really challenging. It's just like entrepreneurship. Jenny Blake. I mean, some days practicing are super brutal and you can't get out of the body, and other days are fully transcendent and profound. You know, it's. But those are the dragons we chase. Are those good days? Right?

Casey, this has been such a delight, and I can't thank you enough for who you are, your generous spirit, and being willing to even go into some coaching on this podcast. It is.

It is kind of so much fun. Thanks for being open to covering so much ground and to be very real with how hard this journey can be. And also, above all, thanks for being an example for are what the rewards are on this journey. You know you've been that for me from afar for years before I met you. And then getting to know you, especially through this podcast, just to see how consistent you've been and how you show up is just really inspiring to me. So thanks Jenny Blake.

Thank you too. And same I knew about you from afar as well and it's a joy to have to really get to connect in this conversation. And we didn't get to talk about your grandfather who you call Pops, but you wrote an awesome post about him and you said his mantra was the anonymous quote. It always works out in the end, so if it's not working out, it's not the end. I thought that might be a good one to leave people with. And yeah, thanks.

We'll link them in the show notes maybe. Yeah, thanks. Thanks. No, no better way to end. I don't think we could go anywhere from there. That's what we both need.

I agree. Thank you so much Casey. What a journey.

Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the Pivot podcast. Make sure you don't miss an episode or my insider tips and templates by signing up for Pivot List, a curated twice monthly newsletter where I share the inside scoop on what I'm reading, watching, listening to, and the latest tools I'm geeking out on. Sign up@pivotmethod.com pivotlist get show notes from this episode@pivotmethod.com podcast and connect with me on Twitter ennyblake.

Remember, build first, then your courage will follow. Hasn't it always.