163: Leveraging Idea Kernels to Create Compelling Content with Khe Hy

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Once you get the idea kernel, then you start to like repackage it, reposition it according to the different mediums and then a few of them might roll into a blog post. Every idea kernel could be a chapter in a book and it's kind of like not reverse engineering but reversing the traditional writing process where it's almost like all of your drafting and your ideation is taking place in public and you're getting real time feedback on what people are interested in and the framings that they're interested in. And then you like go in and then you invest more. You kind of double down on what's working.

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Welcome back Free Timers. I am so excited to be here in studio with previous guest Kay. He Kay is visiting New York with his family and we took this as an opportunity to meet in person. Why not hit record at the same time? So you're here with us. Coffee Talk I'm following up on our conversation. We did an episode recently for the Pivot podcast and prior to that we talked about his 10k work framework in episode 129 of Free Time. We'll link to those in the show. Notes I am really fascinated by K's content creation process. He just hit send or at least scheduled edition 375 of his RAD Reads newsletter. And in addition to sending his newsletter, he created the 10K work productivity method. He teaches cohort based courses including Supercharger Productivity. But what I love most about Rad Reads is it just has such a great mix of Kay's writing. I believe you do a weekly essay. It has curation from around the Internet. It now has sponsors thanks to ConvertKit's feature. So it's monetized as part of his business and it's just consistent and consistently good. So Kay, welcome back to the show.

Thank you so much. Hello everyone. And it is so rad to be doing this in person.

I'm so excited. We've had friend chats that were not for either of the two podcasts and we talked about your process a little bit and I just thought it would make such a good topic here for listeners because contecration. I don't know about you, but I go in waves of motivation with it and inspiration. I know you have a mantra you shared on the Pivot podcast of Follow the fun.

How has your newsletter evolved? Like, tell us about the format and have you tweaked it to continually be fun?

It has not evolved as much as you would think. So 375 issues, so it's always been five links with blurbs that I added an essay probably around issue 100. So that's been like 275 essays which are basically blog posts. And then we added sponsors this year thanks to ConvertKit. But other than that, you know, we used to do a section where we were featured or I was featured, but it got too much. If anything, I might be thinking of like paring it down a little bit because there's a lot, a lot of content. It's quite dense and the last thing I want is to give our readers like cognitive overload. But people are digging it. Like we watch the click through the open rates, like over 50%. The click through rate is extremely high. The essays get clicked on average like 1500 times.

Wow. And how many subscribers do you have now?

We have 38,000.

Amazing. You said now you have a team helping you produce this. Yes. So describe to us the process like week in the life of a newsletter.

Yes.

Who touches what, when, how does it all come together?

Yes. So we do this all in notion. We're going to talk specifically about the newsletter workflow, but my colleague Cole will basically recommend articles to be blurbed. But there's like a very long list of kind of places to look like, look at Hacker News. Like look at this subreddit, look at first round review, look at HBR's most read. We also, we focused a lot on like most reds. It's like what did people care about this week? So there's kind of a checklist and Cole goes through it and goes through like the regular spots and kind of finds like candidate stories. Again, these are like very soft rules of thumb where it's let's try to have one article about productivity. Let's try to have one article about career. Let's try to have one article about money. Let's try to have one article about introspection and then one, like, random, like, room for one. So again, there's some rules there. There's another rules. Like, let's not try to put two articles from the New York Times in consecutive weeks. Definitely not two of the same publication. So these rules start to, like, populate. Right. And so on Sunday night, Cole will recommend the first batch of stories. And she's been doing this for recommending them for maybe six months. And it's gotten to the point where I usually don't even change it at this point.

And have you also been saving and tagging articles that you have found interesting that go in for consideration?

Yes, so I've been saving them as well. And the first story, because I'm a bit of a control freak, but I also just love it. But the first story, cause I feel like it sets the tone of the newsletter, is I pick it and it's something that I really want to read. And by having to blurb it, it forces me to read.

And you write that blurb?

I write that first blurb.

Who gets final selection over the other four?

Ultimately, I will select the blurbs, but again, we've gotten to a point where I don't really challenge them anymore.

And then does Cole blurb them?

So then once I approve them on Sunday night, by Tuesday night, Cole will blurb them. She'll write the opening paragraph, which also has a formula. And the formula is like, check to see if there was any holidays this week. Like, is it Rosh Hashanah? Is it the Super Bowl? Like any big events, unfortunately, we do this as well. Check to make sure there's no major global disaster. So we're not being insensitive. Like if there's a flood or an earthquake somewhere. We have different formats for just greeting people. Like, hope you had a good week. And things like, I hope you had a rad week. So it's very formulaic. Then we have a call to action, which is whatever we're promoting. So we rotate through the calls to action. And something that I spend a lot of time on is the subject line. Because if you know, 10k work high leverage, like you have a bad subject line, you could put all the work in the world into that newsletter and no one's going to open it. So I am thinking about the subject line all week. Really all week.

What have you learned about subject lines? Like, what do you look for? What makes a good one?

There's a few. So one is the how to always works. Well, how to master your inbox parentheses in less than 25. Like a how to works well, but you become too servicey if all you do is how tos. So then you want to add, like, either some kind of curiosity gap or something just, like, so bizarre that, like, makes no sense. Like, think and grow rich is like a perfect think and grow rich. Like, what? Yeah, you're like, tell me more. It sounds so ridiculous, but you can't resist wanting to know more. So definitely, like, some kind of curiosity gap.

I just tagged one of yours. When 5 million isn't enough.

Exactly.

That gets us to open. What do you mean? Why wouldn't 5 million be enough?

Exactly. Exactly. So controversial statements also help. And then some people call it trend jacking, where you kind of, like, look at, you know, what's trending in the news. So, like, unfortunately, Elon Musk is always trending in the news these days, but you put Musk in the headline, then people are going to more likely because they're like, oh, like, yeah, what did he say this week? And so on. So my last headline was John Mayer's Beef with Elon Musk.

Right.

Because he just made this passing comment on the Call Her Daddy podcast, and.

We'Re going to talk about that because you're also really good at taking what we've named to kind of idea kernel. Or you might have said it, and I just reflected it back, but that's an idea kernel that doesn't need to be yours. But you pulled an idea kernel out of a piece of content. That was the Call Her Daddy podcast, which I had listened to, by the way, before you wrote that newsletter and that subject line. I had already listened to the interview. I'll link to it in the show notes. And I don't know, I mean, yes, that part did stand out to me as particularly interesting because they were talking about not chasing not just fame, but approval from the media or from your audience even, because never ending gang. But the way you pulled it out and the way you put that into a subject line to create curiosity was so interesting.

Oh, thank you. Thank you.

Did you know when you heard that part, did something in you stop and go, ooh, that's good. That's a headline.

So as I was listening to John Mayer talk, I was like, this guy's deep. That's the first bizarre thing. So I'm always looking for intrigue.

Yeah.

And so the first intriguing thing of that was like, John Mayer doesn't strike me as a philosopher, but as I'm listening to him, Talk. I'm like, this is deep stuff. Like, he's a thinker for sure. So the first point of intrigue was I was thinking the Zen of John Mayer, because, again, you don't think of him as being a philosopher. So, like, if I can create that tension or like, huh? Like, this makes no sense. So I'm listening for that. But mostly what got my attention were his ideas. Like, he had all these ideas about the self, about the ego, about comparison, about how people perceive you. I'm like, these are all topics that my readers love. So I knew that there was something that was gonna come out of that podcast. So that's the first point, is, like, you have the raw material to work with. Then it's like, how do you frame it in a way that people will actually care? Because if I'm like, john Mayer is a philosopher. I'm like, okay. Like, that's kind of interesting, right?

Or you had just linked. This was a great episode. Check it out. John Mayer's deeper than I thought. Even that might not have created the intrigue that you are able to generate.

Because that's where you need someone like Elon Musk. And by the way, Elon Musk is very good at this himself, because he keeps himself in the media so that people like me write about him. Like, the amount of earned media that he must generate, it must be the billions of dollars, because people just talk about him all the time. Like, dedicate 10 minutes to him right now so you can kind of see the trend there. And, like, pick that tension. And then it becomes very, like, it kind of hit on all cylinders because you're like, John Mayer and Elon Musk. Like, what? Like, what do they have in common? And then Elon Musk being, like, such a controversial, polarizing figure right now, like, they just want to read what train wreck he started. But again, it comes back to that. Like, the idea. And that idea, the John Mayer idea, was about, are you trying to eat the monster that's trying to eat you? When he said that, I was like, damn, that's good. I just kept saying it to myself, like, are you trying to eat the monster that's trying to eat you? Like, listener, think about that. Are you trying to eat the monster that's trying to eat you? And I was like, what does he mean? But I get it. Like, as soon as I said it, I was like, I get it. And so that quote just sat with me. I was like, I'm going to write about. That's the idea. I want to write About. And then the wrapping paper and the bow was that he was like, look at Elon Musk. He's clearly trying to eat the monster that's trying to eat him. And I was like, boom, that's it.

It's so cool seeing your Venn diagram of interests. We shared this on the Pivot podcast, but this tagline of come for the productivity, stay for the existential. So here you have a deeper idea about existential thinking or identity. Chasing the monsters, trying to chase you, and taking kind of pop culture and then the curiosity gap, like you said, and intrigue and tying those three things together. I want to come back to the idea to kernels. First, you were mentioning the newsletter format and who does what when. I thought your newsletters opened with an excerpt from your essay. Does it alternate? Does sometimes Cole write it? Or sometimes it's pulled from the essay you write that week.

So there's a little intro that Cole writes, and then it's just the first paragraph of the essay.

And your first paragraphs of your essays are always so punchy. The sentences are so short. I learned that from a writing course that I took once, that the best pulpy paperback fiction have really short, punchy sentences. And you have mastered this more than anyone I know. Yes. Like, just a few words, line, return. Just a few words, line return. When do you write the essay and when does it get slotted into the newsletter?

Up until issue 325, Saturday morning.

And when does the newsletter get sent?

Saturday morning. Okay, so I'm a productivity person, but I'm also, like, the kind of creative person that just, like, doesn't want to be told when to be creative and also needs a deadline for creativity. So. But it was starting to impact, like, my marriage to, you know, like, Saturdays were like hell in the he household. And so that needed to change. And, you know, working with Marian. Marian is one of our values at Rad Reeds is Islands of Calm, which is shout out to my friend Austin, who came up with that. But, like, we're gonna have fire drills. We're not gonna have unnecessary fire drills.

I second that. And I never wanna create the emergency.

For someone else being alone for so long. As an entrepreneur, I can leave things till the last minute. So in the old days, it was 200 weeks of, like, Saturday morning chaos in our household. Now I aim to write it by Thursday night. And then Fridays, all day, we, like, different people are checking links and so on. And then we queue it up, like, Friday afternoon. And then, like, that's when my weekend begins.

Like once we've done that message helps so much. So what are your Saturday mornings must be much more calm.

They are heaven. I mean it was 200 weeks of not heaven.

That's a long time. That's over two years.

Yes, yes.

And it's interesting you notice that friction of this is just creating chaos in the house and in your mind, in your heart.

And this is why it's great to work with my colleagues, because they challenge me. They're like, you don't need to write it on Saturday morning to be creative. Like that's the story you've told yourself. You're right, I don't need to leave it till Saturday. I'm just being lazy and procrastinating and I'm using this story of the creative who doesn't like to be told when to be creative to basically hide my procrastination. And so having colleagues who really challenge me on that and they know that you know, I'm kind of the creative lead on most of our things, so they know to like give me enough space to not feel too constricted. But they also help me get out of my own way.

We'll be right back just after this.

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The other thing is that Saturday morning has a certain set of qualities associated with it that it's almost a pre built island of calm because you know that no one really expects anything from you. And so it is then interesting how to recreate that. I often think about Friday vibes and how much calmer I feel on a Friday than a Monday. I Don't schedule meetings for either day. But why is it that Monday? I have a case of the Mondays.

Oh, I know.

And how can I switch that up? Sometimes I'll go run in person errands on a Monday just to work out the agita of facing down another week. Even though I technically enjoy my work. But it is interesting to notice where the islands of calm are in the week and then how to try to map those qualities over. So let's go back to Idea Kernels, because we really got connected after free time came out and a mutual friend put us in touch. Shout out, Aldea, thank you so much. The gift that keeps on giving. But what really impressed me and blew me away was how generous you were sharing ideas from free time, but you repackaged them in a way that created intrigue. And you can maybe explain for listeners the first post that you did, I think it first went to Twitter, was the first place, and then it got to your newsletter. But you had this way of pulling out stuff from the book but making it way more interesting. Way more interesting, way more intriguing. You got all these clicks, you got all these comments in social on that post, and then you were able to snowball those pieces of content that had already been tested in order to create even more content. So my experience as your friend was, wow, this is so generous. He keeps sharing about free time. How can I ever repay him? How can I thank him? And then on your end, you get to kind of propagate content, but do it in a way that you're adding value because you're taking ideas from a needle in a haystack and shining a spotlight on them.

I'm grateful because I don't have to come up with the idea myself. Someone else came up with it. So I'm reading Free Time, and as I read books, I usually write a giant T next to things that should be tweets.

Cool.

And a lot of it starts with Twitter, these idea kernels, because of the constraints.

And can you share why we called it or you called it an ideal kernel?

Yeah. So let's take the John Mayer podcast. As he's talking, I'm hearing his ideas come out as what we've been calling idea kernels. And they're just like micro ideas that could be elaborated into a tweet, a reel, a blog post, a book, university course. And so I guess you always are so flattering about it. I was like, I thought everyone reads this way. And so as I'm listening to things and it's kind of like if you know the rule of thirds as a photographer, like, once you know that all great photos are composed a certain way, you can never unsee it. You see it everywhere. And so for better or for worse, you know, these idea kernels to me are what are these little packets of an idea that people love to engage with. I guess mostly on social, but even then. So as I'm reading Free time, I see all these idea kernels and the ones that tend to work really well are anything that involves money and like making a lot of it or making it in a strange way, or making it with not a lot of time. And so I stumbled upon a recap of Jenny's year where you wrote your income, your revenue, your income, the number of hours worked on average. No meetings on Mondays and Fridays and no email on your phone.

Yeah, it was a five year average. Five years, Yep.

Because I look at that and what I see is like, everyone wants that life, Everyone. So as a marketer or content creator, that's like a gold mine. You're like, you found something that everyone wants. And by the way, you didn't even have to write it. And especially with money, it's easier to talk about when other people talk about money because then you're not talking about yourself. So I put that tweet up and it goes viral by case standards.

And he said it was kind of anonymous. Like, that was the fun part about how you wrote it. It was, would you want this business? You work 20 hours a week, you generate this much in revenue, this much in take home pay, you don't check email from your phone, you take two months off every year. And those are those short sentences. And then the last one was like, this is a real business, you know, it wasn't like, oh, let me share an excerpt from Jenny Blake's book Free Time. No, you rewrote it to this really punchy format and made a little mystery.

Yeah.

And people I remember in the comments were saying, is this legal? I would only want it if it's doing good in the world. And he's like, yes, yes, it's legal, it's doing good in the world.

Yes. So again, like, we saw the John Mayer quote, like that powerful quote, like, are you trying to eat the monster that's trying to eat you? And hear this like, it's a crazy story of how your business makes money. Like, to the untrained eye, like, that's crazy that you can do that. And so I hone in on it, create a tweet. And the tweet does really well. So then I'm like, okay, people care about this. And I kind of already suspected, but again, the framing of it, like, do you want this? Like, of course you want this. Like, who doesn't want this? And so then in my idea bank, I had wanted to write about the E myth, which is kind of the classic entrepreneurs small business owners manual, which you and I have both talked about, some of our challenges with it. But I'd always wanted to write about the E myth, but that you can't do in a tweet because there's these three Personas. And so I wanted to flush it out. And so I actually don't even remember how I connected that story, the same story, the same idea kernel, to the E myth, but it was something about creating scale in your business and tying it to the emyth that was like something I'd wanted to do for a while. And again, you gave me the hook, the entry into it. Then I kept going with it. I'm like, let me turn this into a reel. It's not done yet. I'm still thinking of ways because it was so unique and people loved it so much and it hit on all these different elements. So to go back to the idea kernels, like, I think that what's really powerful about it is like seeing it and then testing it out on Twitter because you're constrained by the character length and the feedback on Twitter is so quick, it's instantaneous, right? So before you even write a blog post about anything now, I mean, I have enough Twitter followers that I can get a pulse of like, do people care about this topic? So you started with this quick tweet, and that's how the $5 million, you know, is $5 million enough to retire at 35? That was another throwaway tweet. I just thought about it while I was running and it was the most viral tweet I ever had. 2 million views. And I'm like, oh, I gotta run with this. So I turned it into a blog post and there were all these arguments of, like, why it is enough, why it's not enough, and, like, each argument will probably be its own blog post down the road. But what I've learned in content creation is that I used to just start with an essay. An 800 word blog post is long form writing now. Now it's like, start with the idea kernel and see the reaction to it to see if it's worth writing the essay again. That starts with Twitter, but it can be like Instagram Stories. It can be an Instagram post. Like, the point is that you have to do a lot of them and they have to be very quick to do like, they can't be heavy lifts to put them out, which is why Twitter works so well for them. Then once you get the idea kernel, then you start to like repackage it, reposition it according to the different mediums, and then a few of them might roll into a blog post. Every idea kernel could be a chapter in a book. And it's kind of like not reverse engineering but reversing the traditional writing process where it's almost like all of your drafting and your ideation is taking place in public and you're getting real time feedback on what people are interested in and, and the framings that they're interested in. And then you like go in and then you invest more. You kind of double down on what's working.

It's such a great example of also taking the pressure off that you k have to have so many original ideas. Because that's always pressure I put on myself that it needs to be me coming up with all these original unique idea kernels. And a related one that you were just telling me and then I saw you produce, it was from Cassie Holmes, who has research that shows that having too much free time has diminishing returns on our happiness. And that was interesting to you. So then I think it was you and your team created a visual for it.

It was from the book.

It was from the book. So pulled that out and again, there goes that spotlight. And it doesn't always have to be your idea, but when you find an idea kernel, you put it out. It does. Well, then you're sort of carrying it. You and your team are now carrying it and mapping it to all these different outlets. And so you're also getting more life out of any one idea than having to constantly, again, just be on a treadmill thinking of new ideas, new snippets for every single format.

The other thing is that we have this kind of core group of ideas, like these bigger ideas around people pleasing and the meaty things that we could write 20003000 word blog posts. And what typically happens is that you can attach the idea kernel like the bat. Kernel for Cassie Holmes was under two hours of free time, you're unhappy. Over five hours of free time, you're unhappy. So like we talk about retirement being this kind of false construct. And so you're like, boom, retirees. Like retirees must be miserable. Based on Cassie Holmes's research and we knew that from, like, just telling the story of, like, the loss of identity that comes from retirement. So we have this, like, kind of deeper bed of, like, I guess some people would call it pillar content. But for me, it's just, like, the ideas that we really care about. And then these little kernels become like, a hook and a gateway into the bigger idea, which, by the way, the big ideas get reworked and repackaged over and over and over because they're like big philosophical questions, like, what does it mean to retire? Or will you ever feel like you have enough money? These kind of questions that can be answered through eight different angles anyway. And so you kind of package the kernel with the big idea, and that's where it's like, you read and you're like, oh, this is really more K's idea. And, you know, full attribution to you and to Cassie in the Colonel. But then the way it pulls out into the story, they're like, oh, we're in, like, we're in Rad Reed's land now, like, by the end.

I love that. I love that. And just connecting to, right. The themes that are so important to you and your body of work. Malcolm Gladwell did a great masterclass on writing, and he described it as candy and the meal, like, and it kind of. I don't know, it makes me think of that as you're talking, that you're providing the meal and the essays and the context around it, and yet you can sprinkle in, whether you call it candy or something else. Candy's not even as nutritious as these little ideal kernels are. But I love that idea of just balancing out the content, and you have the deep, serious, original stuff, and then you have these idea kernels or just little snippets that add color and, like you said, give you entry points into the bigger ideas that don't always have to be about yourself, because that gets tiring, too.

So the listeners, they can do this by, like, find Your audience's top 10 podcasts and just, like, look at the subject lines. I've looked at the names that you give your podcast episodes just to, like, be like, okay, this is what people care about in this orbit, right? Look at their top 10 books that they're reading, look at the top 10 sub stacks, and you're going to see, like, someone else is doing that heavy lifting. Because they're also trying to figure out, what do these people want to read? What do they care about right now, Right? Harvard Business Review first, or whatever your publication of choice, right? And then so much research gets done on Reddit. If there's good subreddits.

Reddit is amazing.

It's amazing. I mean, talk about ideas. It's like idea kernels for days on Reddit and there's every niche possible and the upvoting brings the best ideas up so you can go through and again find the ones. Follow the fun. Like, if it feels like too much work, then go take a different route, right? Go more into, you know, the best sellers in your category. Or if that feels like too much work, go to the most popular YouTube videos in your category. If that feels like too much work, like, subscribe to 10substacks in your category. And then you're going to start to see these little idea kernels.

So good. I'll put a link in the show notes to. I call it a collection bucket, the way I've set mine up in notion. So you can also save these. I try to save at least a couple every day. Yeah, sadly, we're just about out of studio time. So, Kay, the last question, as you know that I ask every episode, if you could give fellow business owners permission to do something differently as it relates to content creation, let's say, even newsletter creation, to be specific, do something differently or drop something altogether, what would it be?

You have permission to not be consistent.

Oh, I needed that one today. I have not been consistent for the last month.

I have permission to not be consistent because if that consistency bugaboo comes, then it starts to suck the life out of the process. I took one summer off.

What about the consistency police that say if you're not consistent, your audience won't trust you anymore. You'll lose touch.

I think that that's BS because what happens is when you take a break, your audience realizes that you're human. So that is a very powerful thing. Especially like creators that are so intimately connected with their audience. So that's one. The second thing is you give them time to catch up, so you're actually doing them a favor. And then the third is that you need to recharge to show up for them. You know, I always go back to this quote, you cannot give that which you don't have. I don't know who said it, but if you're running on fumes, you're giving your audience fumes. And everyone's losing in that scenario.

So true. So well said, Kay. This has been such a blast. Thank you for being here in person. Yes, thank you for sharing your wisdom with us, everybody. Subscribe to RADREADS co if you're not already, where else can people find you and keep in touch?

Yes. So Idea Colonel's galore over at Twitter, so that's probably my oh yeah, now.

We'Re really gonna have to go check out your stories.

Exactly. My most active social medium. But really building up video on Instagram, YouTube and then probably at some point TikTok.

I'll be so curious to see what you do with that. We'll do another episode altogether. And there's a previous episode with Ina Eisenstein, my friend who has built her whole business on TikTok, so she has figured a lot out in terms of making idea kernels into TikToks. I'll put that in the show notes. We'll also link to Kay's course Supercharge youe Productivity, which is secretly about much deeper questions than just how to get more done. It's all about the existential, which is something I really appreciate about you. K. Thank you again for being here and big thanks everybody for listening.

Thank you so much Jenny. Thank you everyone. It's been a true, true pleasure especially to do this in person.

Absolutely.

If you've listened this far, you get a gold star.

Thank you.

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