183: Cultivating Opposites and Checklists with Alexandra Franzen

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Hello everybody. Welcome back. How do I begin to describe my love, affection and respect for today's guest? I am so excited to have Alexandra Fransen back on the show. She is someone I have admired, learned from, been grateful for, for almost a decade now of my own self employment and she herself is celebrating 10 years of solopreneurship. She was last on the podcast in episode 76 on plan Z. Creative finish lines and the graceful no. And today we're talking about her sixth book, the checklist. Set realistic goals, celebrate tiny wins, reduce stress and overwhelm and feel calmer every day. And you better believe that subtitle is illustrated with a checklist on the COVID of the book. Alex, welcome back to the show.

Thank you so much. And after we finish recording, I can check record podcast with Jenny off as a check mark on my list for today.

Me too. Wouldn't you know I love it. That falls under the easy win for me. Like how delightful. I just was so looking forward to this. And for those who don't know, since Alex was last on the show, she moved to Hawaii. I was gonna say pivoted, but honestly, now that the whole world is pivoting every day, I'm almost just tired of the phrase.

We'Re just living.

I know, we're just living. Pivoting is life. That's my new bumper sticker. She moved to Hawaii. She's a writer, consultant, entrepreneur, retreat leader and proud checklist freak. She's the founder of Tiny Press, a publishing imprint specializing in very short books that are 100 pages or less. And her other books include you're going to Survive and so this is the end, a love story. I just have to say, Alex, you are such a giver and you write and lead with such heart and authenticity and helpfulness and joy and delight that every time I see your emails come in, it's like a warm email blanket. Thank you.

Oh, thank you. That means so much to me and it really is. Yeah. You mentioned a moment ago that I've been self employed now about 10 years and I've been writing online and Offline and running my email newsletter about 10 years as well. And it is such a joy for me to connect with people and share things that inspire me. And it really, I mean, writing my email newsletter is for sure one of the highlights of my week. It just feels so good.

There's so much packed in there. It's always a delicious mix of playlists, checklists, resources, inspirational writing stories. It's just great. In fact, listeners, if you're not already subscribed to Alexandra Franzen's newsletter, you got to. It's alexanderfransen.com I'll put it in the show notes. And you and I have a similar business setup in terms of neither of us are really on social media and I'm with you. I do my podcast and my newsletter pivot list. That's it. That's where I can give the most. I can show up the best with heart, with the things that I love. And I know we did talk about that in the last episode, but it must, it must be interesting right now because so much of the world has gone online. How is that 10 years in? How's it going in terms of choosing what to be on and what not to be on?

Oh, 10 years in. Yeah. So yeah, 10 years ago, I officially quit my cubicle job. I was working in public broadcasting at the time and I knew I want, you know, it's funny, like, I feel like some people launch a business with this huge strategy. Like they have like a business plan and a five year vision and you know, they've got a whole thing like written out in a marketing brief and they've got this whole plan, which is amazing. I did not have any of that. Like, I basically was like, I want to be a writer. I want to somehow figure out how to get paid to write. I would like to have a career that feels creative in some way and I don't want to work in a cubicle. And like, literally that was my only criteria. I didn't really have the rest of the fleshed out and I just kind of leapt forward and trusted. Like I hope I can figure it out. And 10 years down the road, you know, I have definitely noticed myself being pulled more and more and more towards simplicity. I want my life to feel simple. I want my work to feel simple. I don't want to have 20 different clients every month. I don't want to be releasing a new product, project or program or class or workshop every single month. I just want to do like you a couple of things and do them really well. Like less is more. That feels so much better as an artist, as a writer, as a business owner, but also for my mental health. Just having fewer birds fluttering around in my mind feels way better.

What about you? Like, have you noticed yourself? Did you feel like a sense of simplicity from day one? Or have you kind of drawn back to simplicity after trying a whole bunch of stuff? What's been your trajectory?

Well, I love. Way to turn the mic around. Hey, wait a second. No, it's a great question. And with all the birds chirping in the background, what a perfect metaphor to tie in. I love it. Just picturing you in this idyllic Hawaiian setting is so wonderful for me, same as you. Last year, my word of the year was abundance, but simplicity was a close second. It was right behind. I've done webinars on 10 plus streams of income, which I do have, but those are almost a relic or a carryover of being in this 10 years. Because my 10 year solopreneur bursary, it's my new word, will be March 2021. So that will be 10 years. And yes, this, this last year I focused on three things. Three main streams of income, plus the podcast and newsletter, which is what I call public original thinking. I do think it's important to do something publicly where you're expressing yourself, at least if you want to build a business like the ones you and I have. And yeah, less is more. Same I I for. For a while now, my only path to sanity was to try to have as much income from as few clients. I just realized I wasn't really good at selling small things to many people the way some of these, like online marketers, you know, that's really the business model and it doesn't work for me. I'm not that good at it. It doesn't bring me joy. So simplicity for sure. And then even now, I mean, we're going through such a crazy time. Everything got canceled, like by the time March, mid March, within two to three weeks. We're recording this today. On Wednesday, April 8th, everything was canceled. And it's the least I've traveled in 10 years. So there is something about forced simplicity in a way, like the world is simplifying right now and pausing.

So may I ask you a question? Because this is something that I've been working on myself and that I'm really curious about. So amidst, you know, the pandemic and all the disruption to life business, all the anxiety in the air, everything I what is like, like when you get anxious, what is the specific fear or thought in your head, like, what do you start saying to yourself? Is it like, oh my God, my business will never recover? Is it, I'm gonna lose my home? Like, what starts thundering through your head and then what helps you to feel calmer? Like what helps you to kind of settle that thought and refocus?

So good. I cannot wait to hear your answer too.

Okay, so I love how you even phrased it. What comes thundering through my mind.

For me, you know, the business supports our lives, our home, the dog. Like they're just real, real tangible things that that money goes toward. It's not just, oh, a fear, what if I never earn money again? Weirdly, I have 100% confidence that my business will make it through this. I know that's so odd to say, but I feel like someone is going to have to pry my business out of my hands. Like, I'm not letting this go. I am in this for life. I do feel I've been here before where I didn't know where the next check would come from. I've never had that happen at the same time. Everything else gets canceled within a three week period. So it is a little different than what's happened before. But the skills that I've been practicing since really, I'd say 2013 around surrender. And so how I. So my anxiety tends to be. I don't want to kick a can down the road. I really do not like IOUs. I don't want to steal from my tax account money that I owe for Q1 taxes just to pay the bills now and then be like slapped in the face six months from now or a year from now when the government says, okay, pony up, this thing is over. Now where's my money? I don't want that for the same reason. I don't want to defer our mortgage payment if we don't have to. I don't even wanna borrow from my family. Like, I just, I don't. To me, my fear around that is just I'm postponing something. I'm postponing a lesson or a solution that could happen now. It may come to that, but. So the way that I flip it is I completely surrender.

And I stop trying to solve it. If the answer's not here yet, I just say right now what I'm doing. Again, this is now the first week of April. I'm saying give it till the end of April. So the can I will kick down the road is the worry can. So I'll say, do not worry until the End of April. So I kind of give myself a pass and I say, let's see what shakes out this month. Listen, observe, get curious, get intuitive, get those downloads and don't try to solve this right now because I don't think anybody is solving anything right now. We're just adapting.

Yeah.

How about you, Tommy? I can't wait to hear your thoughts on this.

I definitely, yeah, thanks for sharing. I totally relate to everything you just said. I think right now when I feel anxious, it is definitely just kind of like basic resource home kind of security anxiety. So the thoughts are I'm not going to be able to pay my rent. I'm not going to be able to save up to purchase my next home, which was my dream for next year. I'm not going to be able to keep paying the people on my business team. I don't have full time employees, but I have several freelancers and contractors who rely on their, their monthly payment from me. And so it's fears around money, resources, you know, all of those things.

And like you, you know, I don't want to take out debt. I don't want to, you know, ask for it. So there's, there's that anxiety too and fear around money and resources. I mean, I really think it just gets to the core of our like primal human brains. It's so paralyzing. It can be so overwhelming because it's about staying alive ultimately, right? It's about sheltering and feeding yourself so that anxiety can get so loud so quickly, especially when the world is in a state of upheaval. And then how I get myself back into a calm place. There's a couple things that have been helping me and then these are tools that I've used for a while. But I'm like doubling down lately as so many of us are. So there's a great question that comes from a client of mine. Her name is Susan Hyatt and she's a life and business coach, among many other things. And she's all about mindset, like upgrading your mindset. And she asks herself, like if she's experiencing a problem, she'll ask herself, what is the high quality solution to this problem? And I love that question because if you're having like a low quality thought, like, my business is doomed, I'm never going to make money, everything's screwed. You can ask yourself, okay, I need to make more money. Like that's an issue that's real. What is the high quality solution? And something about that phrase, high quality. Kind of like it almost like, awakens the leader inside of you, and it makes you want to step up and create something high quality, offer something high quality, or make a high quality decision about your resources, your health, whatever it may be. So I really like that question and it kind of steers my brain back on track. If I'm really spinning out with anxiety, sometimes I just have to remind myself, like, you know what, whatever you're thinking right now, all these anxious thoughts, all these, like, you know, doomsday thoughts, this is not productive. Like, this is not going to help you move the ship in the direction you want. This is just gonna keep you feeling exhausted and heavy and stuck. So sometimes I just need to give myself some tough love and remind myself, like, this thought is not helping. Like, we have to choose a new thought. And then the other thing is, of course, making a checklist. I think making a simple checklist of what are the next couple of things that I need to do that I can do today with the resources I currently have, with the time I currently have. Making a simple checklist is so powerful because it really helps to quiet that mental storm and just refocus on the simplest action steps that you can take right now. So making a checklist for me is all about my mental health. It's like medicine. And it really helps me to create the best possible day even when the world is in such a state of disruption. So those are some things that help me out.

So good. I'm with you. Just as you were saying, making a checklist, in my head, I was thinking, my checklists are oxygen. And then you use the phrase medicine. I live by the. They're so calming. And I love how your daily checklist template includes easy wins moments, and there's one section called unexpected slash, spontaneous slash extra credit that I have to say, I've never thought of putting easy wins or extra credit on my checklist, but I love that. I love that. So satisfying if you get to check off something spontaneous or some easy win to build that momentum, especially on a hard day.

Yes. So, yeah, when I make my daily checklist, and this is something that I talk about in my book, the checklist book, and I have templates people can download on my website. It's really important to me that my checklist for the day is not just a to do list. It's not a to do list. It's not just like 25 tasks that need to be completed. It's more like a vision for the day that is realistic, focused, and also flexible. That leaves room for unexpected things. To arise because they always do. Right? Like that's just inevitable, a fact of life. And so yeah, I love starting the checklist with a couple of easy wins like drink a glass of water, drink your coffee, snuggle with your dog. Just things that you're probably going to do already. But it just feels good to check them off anyway and kind of feel that sense of pride and momentum. Like, yeah, my day's off to a good start. Look at all those check marks I already got. It's not even 7am and then moving into a combination of tasks and moments. So a task would be like answer 10 emails, send invoice to so and so, you know, kind of work related or other important tasks that really need to get done today. But then also putting on the checklist moments or experiences like look at the sunset, call mom, you know, take a bubble bath, whatever it may be. But experiences that fill your soul and that make you feel mentally and physically strong. Because I know for me if I don't put those moments on my checklist, they don't happen. Like I need to put them on my checklist to make them just as important as all of the work related tasks. That's crucial and that's something I've kind of learned through the years. Like, oh, if it goes on my checklist it will probably happen. If it doesn't go on my checklist, I will probably forget or just not make time for it. So that's been really helpful for me. What about you? Like what are some moments that you keep on your checklist most days that make you feel good, that give you energy.

I just love your. I love the values that I'm hearing come through, which is so often. Our checklists are almost a source of dread or drudgery, you know, or just a long growing list that never ends. And I really love your reframe around because the, let's say a typical checklist is really around tasks and productivity, whether it's personal or professional. On the personal side, it's always like pay sales tax even. You know, I don't put vacuum in the house. But I wouldn't be thinking about exciting things that you just described though I will say that the time I kept a meditation streak for almost five years and it was 1,000 days unbroken. And that was because I put meditate at the top of my checklist and every day I got to check it off. And I swear that is what kept that streak going, which is now broken. But I used to use these little.

Because you're human yeah, and you know what?

I needed a break. I just needed to not commit to something every day in a weird way, even though of course it'd be good for me. So, yeah, I think I could do a better job of putting more delightful or moment related things on my checklist. I used to do it daily and now I started doing.

I don't know, it's just like, it's sometimes it's a week or two weeks and I always do two categories. So I always have like projects on the left and then on the right are maybe quicker wins. But again, see, I'm going to learn something from you today which is just putting more, more fun. Having more fun on these checklists and to do lists.

Yes. Well, it's fun, but you can also think of it as like, look to get through your day and to do all of the work tasks that you need to do, which could be anything from, you know, dealing with tax paperwork to answering emails, to developing a new offer for your audience, whatever it is. Serving clientele, that takes energy. Like, that takes mental energy, physical energy. You need to feel great in order to do that kind of work and do it well. So that's why it's, it's imperative to put moments sprinkled throughout your day that build your energy, that make you feel calm, clear, you know, creative, inspired. It's not fluff, right? Like, it's crucial to you operating as your best self. And so, yeah, that's again, it's been a lesson I've learned over the years. Like, you can't skimp on this stuff. Your checklist needs to include moments that fuel you, whether it's yoga or meditation or watching, you know, a comedy show, or organizing your, you know, laundry, which weirdly brings me so much delight or whatever. Like, whatever.

I did seven loads yesterday. Like, I did laundry all day. I ran a laundromat and it feels so good.

I will. Okay. One of my favorite things is like putting hot clothes fresh out of the laundry, just dumping them on myself. Isn't that the greatest?

It's so good. Also, you. Oh, sorry. You reminded me of something that I wanted to mention. So you said you did meditating every day for a thousand days in a row, unbroken, and then you needed a break because you wanted more spontaneity or you didn't want to have so many commitments in your life. You were craving like, you know, less of that. And it reminded me of this thing I read. I can't remember where, but it was about, apparently there were these Buddhist monks who were practicing non attachment, and they practice non attachment and they practice non attachment. And they got so good at non attachment that then they realized, oh, no, we're attached to non attachment. So then they started practicing attachment to, like, balance it out, which just strikes me as the most hilarious, delightful thing. And it sounds like that's kind of what you were doing with your meditation practice.

That's true. Because in a way, my whole life has been about checking the box, getting an A adherence. That's part of my fear around kicking a IOU down the road, is that it's not responsible. I have a real sense of responsibility. And, you know, the other day, oh my gosh, I saw a meme on Reddit that is haunting me because it's like all of you capitalists or entrepreneurs, you say that you pay yourselves more because you get the rewards of taking on all the risk. And then as soon as the risk actually happens, now you're looking for a bailout. And something in that just got to me that I know this pandemic, it's no one's fault. Nobody. And we're all affected before we hit record. We're talking about just the. For you even being in Hawaii and seeing how tourism, in a way, it's good, nobody can fly in, but on the other hand, there are so many businesses that are hurting. And that, that meme that I saw on Reddit, it's like it got to me because I thought to myself, yeah, I chose this. I'm the one that got to work from home every day for nine years. And. And I'm the one that didn't build up my emergency fund big enough to last six months or a year, even though I was trying to do that, I just hadn't gotten there yet. And so there is a part of me that I'm like, I want to solve this. And I sort of, I do take a lot of personal responsibility.

Which kind of brings us back to Susan's question about the high quality solution. For me, sometimes taking on that much responsibility is empowering as well. It's stressful, but it's also empowering because I'll say that's where I get the creative breakthroughs when I don't give myself kind of a way out. And I'm like, no, you're gonna figure this out. Stick to it. And what's the, as my friend Christine would say, the sacred third solution. So it's not A or B, there's a sacred third that's transcends. That's of higher consciousness.

Yeah, yeah. Yes to all of that. And also as you were speaking, talking about how, you know, so much of your life is all about checking the box, adherence, being responsible, you know, being that person.

There is something interesting. I'm just going to plant this little seed in your mind and maybe in the listeners minds too. So I've been practicing Yoga for over 20 years. It's a huge part of my life. And I recently learned from one of my favorite yoga teachers here in Hawaii a term, a yoga sutra, that I'd never heard before. And the practice is called Pratipaksha Bhavanam. And in English that basically translates to cultivate the opposite. And so whatever you typically do, try the opposite, flip it around. And it also, it can be applied to so many situations. Like literally, like if your lower back is hurting, cultivate the opposite. Bend forward, fold forward, and you'll feel relief in your lower back. Or when everyone around you in the, in the world is panicking about money and hoarding resources and hoarding toilet paper, cultivate the opposite. Be exceptionally generous rather than stingy. But for someone like you, and for someone like me, who is so driven by like responsibility and adherence, what if just once in your life you allowed yourself to cultivate the opposite? Like, what if you did something a little irresponsible or like you were a bad girl for one day?

Shocking. Alex, I don't know how it can.

Right? Or you allowed yourself to receive help in a big way, maybe even financially, and that might make you so uncomfortable. Like I can feel you like bristling right now listening to that.

I'm more like tilted my head like how a dog goes, right?

But like, what if once in your life you allow you cultivate the opposite? You do the opposite of your normal mode. And if there were ever a moment in history to like try something a little different, I feel like this would be it. So I've been really thinking about that. How can I cultivate the opposite? How can I be exceptionally generous in a time when so many people are panicking about resources? But how can I just like, you know, turn things upside down, look at things from a new angle? It's a very interesting thing to contemplate and something that's been in my mind lately.

I love, love, love it. There's so much wisdom in that. I've been fascinated by paradox. Even every chapter of Pivot has a pivot paradox, because here it is, here is the paradox of being human and here it is. So cultivate the opposite. In a way, there's this quote I gotta Lock this into my brain because I always bungle it on the podcast while I'm live. It's like how I had to train myself to say Mihaly Csikszentmihaly's name. Who wrote Flow. There's this quote that the very essence of being human is the ability to hold a paradox.

Yeah.

And for me, cultivating the opposite. What you shared, and I loved the newsletter you sent on this too. You read my mind because it was. I wanted to ask you about it. This notion of cultivate the opposite. Be exceptionally generous and when everyone around you is in fear, be hopeful. When everyone around you is freaking out and anxious, be calm. In a way, that's partly what I've tried to offer. I've been podcasting daily because it's the opposite. Like, I. My impulse might be to be quiet or go into anxiety and, and my hope is to create some calm conversations around all this that aren't about the news. They're just sort of ways to process. And I, I actually want to ask you, because I know that you have checklists even for things like processing grief. Yeah, I would love to hear about that. And also to get your take, because something that's been on my mind even today is this notion of spiritual bypassing. And so I found myself waking up cranky today. I was like angry, frustrated, sad, all the things. And immediately I found the like, you know, 20 years of self help reading, I call it the personal development police were like, chin up, girl. You know, you know, there's silver lining. There's gonna be blessings in disguise. This is shaping you. It's all gonna work out. Surrender, you know, all the things. But it also occurred to me.

There are still parts of me that are just sad or grieving or whatever. Even if. And I, I try not to do the comparative sadness thing of how many people have it worse. But I also, I have this value around gratitude that is like, you have. Have it so good right now. You have your health, you have your home. Like, there are people that don't even have homes. So talk to me about both. Like, how do you handle that as someone who I would say is also, you really strive to be quite self aware and.

Navigate things with a sense of spiritual connection and faith. How do you balance that with allowing yourself to just feel all the feelings and process your grief and then feel free to tie in the checklist angle too?

Yes. Okay, so much to discuss here. So, okay, I'll start with this question of, you know, you have a value of gratitude. You want to Feel so grateful for all that you have, as well you should at the same time. Well, okay, let me give you an example. I remember there was a time in my life a couple years ago where I had kind of fallen into a slump with workouts and fitness and even my yoga practice. And I was just feeling like you do when you haven't been moving your body consistently. Kind of just like heavy and sluggish and lethargic and just like, even just like, my physical appearance wasn't what I would love it to be. And I was just feeling kind of down. And I remember I had a moment where I was like, you know what? It's possible to feel grateful and want to make changes at the same time. Like, you can hold both at the same time. You can feel so grateful for your physical body just as it is. Grateful to have all your limbs, grateful to have a reasonable degree of health, grateful you're not battling cancer, whatever it may be. You can be grateful and also be like, and I want to do better. I want to improve. I want to recommit. I want to feel better. I want to change. So I think that notion of, like, holding both at the same time can be applied to so many things. You can feel grateful for having a home and having food in your fridge amidst a pandemic when so many do not. And at the same time, you can be like, I want to pivot. I want to strengthen my business. I want to get my finances back on track. You can be grateful and want more at once. I think that's, like, tricky sometimes for our brains, but I think it is possible.

And then grief, that's like. I feel like we could do a whole, like, audiobook on grief, which is such a complicated human emotion. But, you know, I. After going through my last breakup, which was one of. Not one of. For sure, the most emotionally torturous, painful experience of my life. We were chatting a little bit about this before we started recording. I went into grief like never before. Like, I grieved so hard after that relationship ended because I thought this was my forever person. And it just was. I mean, it was the kind of grief where, like, you get in your car because you just desperately need to get out of the house and get some space because, you know your relationship is ending. And I would, like, drive to a park and just park my car, roll up the windows, put my hands on the steering wheel and just sob and cry and, like, howl like a wounded animal. Like, just these sounds coming out of me that I've never heard before. Like, it was wild. It was wild grief. And I went to see.

I think she was kind of like an acupuncture, like, naturopathic healer. Shortly after that relationship officially ended. And I told her, you know, I was grieving and I was depressed and I just didn't. I felt so awful, etc. Etc. And I remember she said something to me that really stuck in my mind. She. She said, grief is like childbirth. You're giving birth to your new life, and just like childbirth, just like the process of giving birth to a baby, you're not in complete control. Like, nature is in control. You have some influence. You know, you can do some things to make the grieving process maybe a little bit more comfortable or flow a little bit faster, but ultimately, like, it's gonna take as long as it's gonna take. You might be, you know, in labor for three hours or 30 hours, and it's not entirely up to you. And you just have to decide, like, how am I gonna be? How am I gonna live, how will I grieve and just let it happen and not try to force it to be done sooner than it is going to be done? And that was so powerful because I had been trying to, like, snap out of it, you know, like, get over it, you're strong, you know, move on. And just hearing her give me that permission to just let my grieving process take as long as it takes was so beautiful. And just hearing that brought me relief and made me look at grief differently. And I've remembered that to this day, and I'll remember it. I'm grieving. Yeah.

I remember someone said to me when I was going through a similarly wrenching breakup, I cried every day for a year.

Yeah.

They said, your head knows that this is for the best, actually, but your heart has jet lag. And that's how it was. It was like my heart was grieving so much longer, it didn't matter what my head knew. This even goes back to navigating this pandemic. It's like our head can know all the things. Even our spiritual mind or spiritual side can. Can hold the light for the higher consciousness of it. And then sometimes it's like, whether it's your heart or for you, your hut, your gut, and your heart.

It just is on jet lag, and it takes its sweet time that you cannot rush the process.

That's right. Yeah. After my breakup, I decided to just reboot, restart. I moved to a new state. I moved to Hawaii, which had been a dream of mine. Yeah. Woohoo. Indeed. Although when I arrived, it was not a woohoo moment. I basically, I arrived with like, having, you know, sold, left my home, sold my furniture, everything. I arrived in Hawaii with basically two suitcases and like the puffiest face you've ever seen from basically sobbing for six months straight. And my friend picked me up at the airport. And my friend Kate, she's amazing. And she had made a breakup survival kit care package for me with a soft blanket and a bottle of tequila and a music playlist that she curated. Just so amazing. And she wrote me a note when she dropped me off at the place where I was staying that just said, there is no rush. Like, there's no rush to snap out of this and be, you know, back out there on the dating scene two weeks from now or whatever the case may be. It's. It's okay to take your time and let the grief process happen. Now that doesn't mean that you allow yourself to just, like, be stuck and apathetic or take, you know, terrible care of yourself or whatever. But again, it's like holding two things at the same time, letting the grief process happen at whatever pace it's going to happen while still taking the steps that you can to take good care of yourself and to keep yourself mentally and physically strong both at the same time. We can do it. It's tricky for us humans, but we can. Yeah. And. And during that time, as always, checklists really helped me out. I made a, what I called my survival checklist as I was navigating the breakup, because it was complicated. My ex and I had started a business together. We owned a home together, we had a dog together. There was a lot of nuances to it. We were very entwined. And I was so overwhelmed by the prospect of that relationship ending that I just felt paralyzed. So I made myself a survival checklist, which was like, what are the tiny, tiny, tiny action steps that I can take today to start to take care of myself? And it was things like, you know, spend five minutes googling online and try to find a therapist in your area or, you know, call mom for a ten minute, you know, venting, emotional support chat. Just really tiny things. Go for a walk outside, like, get some fresh air, that helped me to feel just a little bit stronger and more empowered while my world was melting down. And I think when we're going through really hard times, whether it's a divorce or a breakup or an illness or a pandemic or all of the above happening at the same time, like the daily checklist has to be full of incredibly tiny steps. So tiny so that you can do it because your. Your capacity is a bit diminished during those stressful times. So focusing on those super, super tiny steps that start to move things in the direction you want is so powerful. And that really, really helped me to start to make steps forward toward the next chapter of my life without completely melting down every single day.

Completely. You and I share the same ethos. I've started saying when I'm giving workshops. I don't buy the go big or go home mantra anymore. It's go timey. How tiny can you go? And you have tiny press, of course. And you even. I'm going to put this in the, in the show notes, but you even encourage people to do a tiny project. And I've seen you, like, walk people through that. It's just especially to go back to grieving. And thank you for sharing as. As much as you have both right now on this conversation and also throughout it. You did check in, you know, with all of us, your community, and that. It's almost like, you know, I read the Rilke, one of my favorite Roka letters, recently on the podcast. The sadness. A new thing has entered upon you. Life has you in its hands. It will not let you fall. But processing that new thing takes tremendous effort. And so your grief checklist, which is around basic hygiene, you know, like the tiniest things, that is a win. And just doing a few tiny things every day, that's actually how the big stuff gets done anyway.

That's right. That's absolutely right. Yeah. I remember talking to my therapist during, like, the lowest point of grief after that breakup. I went through, you know, as. As most people do when grieving, like, highs and lows. And, you know, there was moments where I felt like, this is great. You know, I'm upgrading everything. My life's going to be amazing. Like, just you watch world, like, just kind of almost like manic excitement. And then I went through moments of just like paralysis. So, so sad, so sad that I'd lost the joy in everything. Like, not even coffee tasted good. I was just dead inside. And during that low point, I remember my therapist said to me, you know, whatever your normal daily checklist looks like, maybe you set that aside for now and you make your tiny, tiny, tiny survival checklist with just the tiniest little things that you could do to start to feel a tiny bit better. You know, maybe go outside for a walk and the fresh air is too much right now. Maybe you shrink that down to just open the window and Feel the fresh air on your face, like really, really tiny. Because sometimes we need to do that. We need to focus on the very tiniest things that will help us to start to build up the strength and power again and then graduating to bigger things. And, hey, as you were talking, you shared that beautiful quote. I was reminded of something that felt so pertinent during my grief and my breakup, but also that's so applicable to the pandemic right now, which is.

So after I moved to Hawaii, I had the opportunity to go to this very, very sacred space, special beach near where I live and participate in, like a sunrise blessing chant ceremony with this amazing local woman, Kanani, who has become a friend of mine. She's amazing, and she told us this story. So prior to me moving to Hawaii, there was a volcanic eruption. As many may remember. It was all over the news. One of the volcanoes here on the Big island erupted, and it was hugely devastating. Like, lava destroyed roads, homes, tons of evacuations. It was a major, major, major disaster. And this happened. Gosh, my memory is so bad. 2017, 2018. And when the lava came, Kanani told us it destroyed these swimming holes, these beautiful swimming holes that had been like these little precious places that people in the community loved and that had been visited for generations. Kids, parents, grandparents. These swimming holes by the ocean were like a center for the community. And they were destroyed, covered with lava, just gone. Like they were there, then they were gone. And she said when that happened, she went into grief. She grieved the loss of this place that felt like a home practically, and everyone was grieving.

But the crazy thing is that once the lava cooled and it created all of this new earth, new land.

Those old swimming holes were gone, but four new swimming holes had been created and a brand new black sand beach, a new beach existed where there hadn't been a beach before. And she, I remember she told all of us sitting there watching the sunrise, she was like, the lava was so devastating and it took away so much. But now there is more than before. There's literally more land than before, more beach, more swimming holes. We now have more than before. And that phrase, like, you know, when you hear one of those phrases that just burrows into your heart, I remember sitting there listening to her. And of course, I was thinking about, you know, my own individual life and my breakup and my grief. And I just told myself, I don't know how yet, because the lava is still flowing and things haven't settled down yet. I don't know how or when, but I trust that all of this can. Chaos in my life right now is ultimately leading to more than before. You know, more of whatever that means. More. More confidence, more strength, more certainty, more calm.

More love, more resilience, more of all the things. Right. So I. I wanted to share that because that's perhaps a beautiful little word seed to plant in people's minds right now as we're all dealing with the destruction, the disruption and the chaotic ness of the pandemic. Like, you know, without sugarcoating it, because it is hard and it is. This is rough for so many people on a health level, on a financial level. Like, we don't want to pretend like everything's rosy because it is not. And also at the same time, perhaps in some way this is leading to more than before. And we don't know what that looks like yet. But I don't know if I was going to try to hold on to some vision, that would be the vision I'd want.

I'm so happy that you shared that story. And it reminds me along those lines. The one that gives me so much comfort is the Zen parable. We'll see. Or Zen or Buddhist. I'll put it in the show notes. But essentially that not to judge events of our lives and certainly not too soon. So, yeah, today I lost this client. That's horrible. It's the end of the world. We'll see. Because then tomorrow there could be more than before. And that's life too. Is that to not judge or attach to or judge things as bad? We just don't know yet. So it's like this mindset for me, helps me up. We'll see. And that same is more than before. Like this volcano. It's that t. Terrible. It's the end of the world. This is so sad. We'll see.

Right, Right. And. And disruption has a way of bringing unexpectedly hard and unexpectedly beautiful things. Like, I know a woman, she's a small business owner and because of the pandemic had to close her business because she has the type of business that is, you know, a brick and mortar business where people come in face to face. And she was devastated. She was panicking. This was just a couple of weeks ago that this was all happening. Trying to pivot, trying to figure out, you know, how am I going to keep money flowing in? How am I going to pay my employees all the things. And in a moment of financial hysteria, she decided to. I shouldn't use the word hysteria, like it was very real anxiety in that moment. She decided that she was going to sell One of her surfboards and just try to make a couple thousand bucks real quick. She had this beautiful surfboard, and she didn't want to sell it, but she was like, you know, I'm just gonna do it. Like, I just need some money now. So, long story short, she, you know, told some friends who told some friends who told some friends that the surfboard was available, and she got a text message from this guy who she didn't know, unknown number, saying, like, hey, you know, so and so said you had a board available. I'm interested. I'd love to come check it out. So he comes by to check out the surfboard, and. And he walks in the door, and, like, her stomach drops, and she immediately goes, oh, my God, this is my husband. Like, I just met my future. And it turns out he had just moved to town. He had never. They hadn't met before. Yada, yada, yada. They ended up having this, like, socially distant pandemic first date where they went for a walk outside, standing, you know, six feet apart the entire time.

But.

And, you know, who knows what will actually happen with this relationship or where it will go or whatever. But just what an amazing example of something so awful, this pandemic. The financial stress, all of it leading her to make decisions that she wouldn't ordinarily make, that then, in a funny, circuitous, you know, spirally kind of way, brought this new person into her life that she might not have met any other way. I just love that story.

It's amazing.

And I feel like there's so many. There's so much of that happening right now because our usual routines are disrupted. And when things are disrupted, new things can arrive. That's how it works, right? Try something new, get a different result. So that is a little bit of a silver lining to a very difficult time.

Totally. And I love that so story. It's so good. And you and I both, I know, are fascinated and interested and curious about silver linings and blessings in disguise. I love asking people. I even asked you before we hit record, checking in about the breakup, and I'm like, can you. Is there any silver lining now? You know, and you were like, absolutely. You know, I've learned so much, and. And it's. It is incredible. It's not to diminish any of the pain or grief or chaos of the moment, but I find it so incredible and empowering asking people about their silver lining moments or blessings in disguise and what ends up happening even years later, where they look back and they see, oh, I Do see how this completely changed the path I was on or showed me more about myself. And that is another one of those beautiful things about being human.

Yeah. And now there is more than before.

Yes, now there's more than before. What a great place to end. I could talk to you all day, of course. And I have a feeling listeners do.

We didn't even get to your podcast, but can you let people know where to find you and keep in touch and where to find your just for fun podcast?

Ooh, yes. So I. I don't have any social media accounts, but I do have a website, which I'm sure will be in the show notes. I have a bunch of books out. My latest book is the Checklist Book, which is all about setting realistic goals for your day, celebrating the tiny wins throughout your day, and feeling calmer every single day. So you can check that out. It's on all the places. Amazon, Target, Walmart, local bookstore, library. Find it all around. And then, yeah, I have a newsletter, which I love, which you can sign up for at my website. And then just for fun, total passion project. I started a podcast with a friend of mine, and it's called so Obsessed. And it's a silly, frivolous, ridiculous, lighthearted show where we basically just talk about things that we're obsessed with. That's the entire show. There's no, like, structure or strategy or agenda. We're not trying to, like, talk about our work or our businesses. It's just two gals chatting, which maybe is exactly what people crave right now.

That is true. And I love how you say, like, this isn't for kids. It's not safe for work. This is us. Like, the topics are pretty amazing if a new season just came out. So check out so Obsessed. You'll see. I love the range of conversation.

Yes. Yeah, we talk about Broadway musicals and Jason Momoa and therapy.

What a dream. What a dream.

Right?

That's going to be our next Pivot podcast. Let's just spend an hour.

Oh, my gosh. Melissa has an amazing story about one time when she kind of met Jason Momoa, which she tells on the show. It's wild.

Okay, what episode is that? How do we find that one?

Oh, my gosh. What episode? It might be the first episode of season two. I actually don't remember, but if you look at the show description, it's probably mentioned there. It's on itunes and Spotify and all those places.

All the places. And can I also say how freaking cool it is to see your own imprint on the side of your book, the tiny press.

It's exciting.

So incredible. Oh, Alexander Franzen, you are the perfect person to talk to today. I'm so happy we could connect. Thank you for being you and making the time and doing what you do in the world. I'm just so thankful for you.

Thank you so much. It's always such a joy to connect with you and keep taking good care of yourself. And I'm here for you if you ever need to vent or brainstorm or chat or whatever.

You're so sweet. Same here. Right back at you. Always here. And just love our winding pivot paths. It's so cool to always get these touch points. So thank you, Alex. And enjoy. Enjoy Hawaii for all of us who are not there right now.

I will. I'll say hi to the ocean for you. Yes.

And the birds.