184: Reinventing You + Pivoting in the Crisis with Dorie Clark {LinkedIn Live Replay}

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What's next? This is a question we're all having to ask and answer more frequently. I'm Jenny Blake, your host of the Pivot Podcast and author of Pivot. The only move that matters is your next one.

For show notes from this episode, visit pivotmethod.com podcast if Change is the only constant, then let's get better at it. Here we go.

Hello friends. This episode is a replay of a recent LinkedIn Live that I did with my business bestie Dory Clark. As I had plugged a few episodes ago. I didn't go in and inline edit everything to reflect that this is the audio only version, but nonetheless I hope you enjoy. We had so much fun jamming in this conversation. Dory's books include Reinventing youg Standout and Entrepreneurial you. And of course we bring in the Reinvention theme as well as the daily Pivots theme. Some of what I shared might be repeats of what you've heard if you've been here listening every single day on the podcast, but I do think you'll find that Dorie and I offer very complimentary approaches and then at times contrasting approaches. That's something that I value immensely from Dori. She's one of my closest friend tours and just friends here in New York City, and I always appreciate how dynamic her conversations are, hearing her take on things, and then you'll be able to tell the take and perspective that I bring too. You'll hear me mention the Pivot List newsletter. If you're not already subscribed, make sure that you do. You can subscribe@pivotmethod.com pivotlist. That's where you'll get my weekly ish curated roundup of the best of the web and I'm trying to keep it really simple for you right now because I know that we're all at peak information overload and you can learn more about dori@doryclark.com as well as connecting with both of us on LinkedIn. Although I was laughing that she was plugging both of our LinkedIn pages. And I'm thinking to myself, and yet I will probably never really post on mine. And she is so active on hers. So case in point about our different approaches to life and business. But that's what makes Dory so awesome. And if you have a question, follow up question for either of us, please leave us a note. Pivotmethod.com/it would be super fun to jam with Dori again if you enjoy this kind of conversation. With that, I hope you enjoy this replay. Here we go.

Hi, friends. I'm Dorie Clark and I am here with my good friend Jenny Blake, who is the author of Pivot. We wrote what are kind of sister books, I guess you could say. I wrote in 2013, I wrote Reinventing youg. And Jenny in 2016 wrote Pivot. And so it covers complementary material. So we each have these books and so we decided to team up together and to do a live stream talking about reinvention and pivoting during a crisis. Because obviously all of us have had to deal with and in some cases you could say, endure a lot of changes that have happened as a result of the current crisis. So we're really excited to talk with you and Jenny. I just want to start out by saying, first of all, I'm Dr. Dressed a little bit down today. I'm in my civvies, but for a very specific reason. I don't know if you recognize it, but I have my commemorative.

Shirt. Yes.

Yeah. So Jenny and I have. She's not wearing it today. You know, it's too bad.

I should have. What was I thinking? I missed that memo.

We have matching sweatshirts because we are both LinkedIn learning instructors. And we actually went out and took a trip together to Carpinteria, California, which is where they film LinkedIn learning videos. And they have this like my favorite coffee shop, it's so adorable, called the Lucky Llama. And we got matching sweatshirts from there. So anyway, LinkedIn learning is very cool. Please check out Jenny's course. You have two, two courses on there, right?

I have two courses, yep. And three in progress, though they're currently getting pivoted probably.

Yes. Yeah, we can talk about that too. But yeah, so Jenny has, has a couple of courses right now available on LinkedIn Learning. I have 17. So you can Google both of us in LinkedIn Learning and check that out to get more information about your own reinvention and how to, how to get better in this wacky world. But Jenny, I'm so excited to be, to be hanging out with you and talking with you. And I know that we have a lot of folks who are on with us right now. So welcome guys. I'm actually going to go through the stream right now. We are so happy to have all of you here. So I just want to dive in and go ahead and get started. Jenny, dive into the meat of it here. You sent out an email to your list this morning actually, and you had some fantastic questions on there. I'm on Jenny's email list. She started out by asking us as kind of a prompt, how can you create even more space during this time? And I thought that was a really interesting question. What do you mean by that? And how are you creating more space for yourself?

It's such an interesting time because in some ways we feel constricted space wise. So many of us are sheltering at home, if not all by now. And what I'm noticing is that in the first few weeks there was this rush to zoom and Virtual Everything. And I even called it in the newsletter, Virtual Everything, Capital V, capital E24.7 streaming. Everybody's doubling down on connecting right now, which is awesome. And I'm so amazed at humanity and the various creative things people are doing to stay connected and socially in touch, even if we're physically distanced. And at the same time, I'm also noticing in myself, I did a podcast episode on screen fatigue. I'm feeling it. I'm feeling it by the end of a day, especially with the increase in video calls. Video calls are so specific, you know, especially if you're the one on a video meeting, not just watching something streaming like this. Your eyes are just glued to this one pinhole on the, on your laptop or computer for an hour.

And then I call it the Gatsby phenomenon. Because we all have to just stare at the green light.

Yes, totally. It takes a lot of attention. We're all navigating such energetic shifts right now, such personal pivots. I think for so many of us, we have gotten pivoted and it continues to happen on a daily basis. So with all of that said, how can we be more intentional about creating space for ourselves? Even if it's space to rest, to recharge, to, to reflect, and most of all, to transform. Because I don't think any of us will be the same on the other side. I don't think personally or professionally. And what is happening? What is, as Rilke says, this new thing has entered upon us. What is it? Let's get curious. And in order to do that for me personally, I may put A May moratorium on adding anything new to my calendar, no matter how fun it looks, because I do feel this is a very special time to take some extra space. In a way, that's what coronavirus has demanded that we do. Stay home, don't go to all your usual activities. Don't go into the office if you were. And let's go with that flow, like ride that energy a little bit and see where it takes us.

A May moratorium is a really interesting idea, Jenny. That's, that's, that's pretty cool and, and powerful. Now what's interesting you. So there's a balance, right? Because you.

Are talking about creating more white space for yourself, but also you've ramped up certain things, right? Like you have started. You've always, I mean, not always like your whole life, but for a number of years you have had your own podcast. You have the Pivot podcast, but you know, it was like whatever, you know, every two weeks or so weekly. Okay. And so now you're doing it every day. So talk, talk to me about that. How did you decide to do that during this time? And how does, how does that factor into the kind of overall digital overwhelm?

It's something I feel called to do one on one hand. And some people are kind of overwhelmed by that. They're like, I can't even listen. As fast as you're creating them, I feel this real urge and a call to create calm and shift the conversation a little bit. I'm so grateful for all the media and keeping us informed. And I'm also trying to just create some conversation and content around, like helping us get through this. Well, that's what I've been studying. The. The podcast for the last five years has been about navigating change, uncertainty and anxiety, and specifically using intuition and the unseen. Our soul's calling, you know, transformation. Those have been the themes for five years. And so I just feel compelled because that change has accelerated so much to double down on that. But also, let me just say 90% of my revenue has been canceled. It is gone. So in a way a vacuum was created. And I'm one of those small businesses that is directly downstream of the economic freeze that we're experiencing. I always knew as a solopreneur consultant keynote speaker, I would be the first to be cut from companies budgets and certainly when live events aren't happening or too many external programs like Pivot programs. So I'm in this moment where for the first time, I'm actually not serving all these different clients. And I'm not traveling. So the podcast is giving me an outlet to synthesize and try to lead again in my own way. I can, weirdly, I can start to hear my own thoughts again in a way that I didn't when I was more focused on the external business building and sort of client focused aspects of the work that I do.

Yeah, the still small voice.

That's right.

That's a really, a really interesting point, Jenny, and thank you for sharing that because I think a lot of people, you know, may, you know, maybe thinking like, oh, well, you know, Jenny's really, you know, well known and successful and she's got a book and she's got this podcast. And so, you know, she must be doing fine even if I'm struggling. But, you know, absolutely. You know, anybody who has like keynote speaking, for instance, is a big part of their business, which I know you do it. It really is a challenge. So thank you for sharing that.

So, by the way, I just, I just did a webinar on 10 scalable streams of solopreneur income in early March, and I've done this version in October. The whole thing is out of date now. Like, I have 10 streams and I still don't know where next month's rent is going to, mortgage payment is going to come from in May. I mean, I have backup savings. I could rob my own tax account of what I owe for Q1. But I'm in the same boat as so many of you. And I don't know, I'm sure we have a mix of entrepreneurs, solopreneurs, and those of you who still have jobs, those of you who might have been laid off or furloughed, we are all scrambling. I mean, maybe I think there's a small percentage of people who aren't, or I would say aren't yet, because I do think there's going to be a real cascade. It's almost like tsunami waves that the first one hits and we all get smacked in the face like, what just happened to me? Okay, let me adjust, let me adjust. Boom. And then the next wave hits. So it's just gonna be like that.

For a little bit. You weren't a restaurant worker, so it wasn't week one.

But my first gigs did get canceled. Week one, my first engagement, I was supposed to speak on March 12th and they canceled it on March 4th. And that's when I. That was for me. They say New York has been the canary in the coal mine for the rest of the country. And that one was my little Canary in the coal mine. I was thinking, oh, this isn't going to be good. Like, with this one gone, and it was from a big, you know, Fortune 5 company, I knew that all the rest would be following suit. I'm curious how it's been for you, Dori A. Are you creating space? Are you thinking differently already and. Or are you feeling screen fatigue?

Well, certainly there, there has been a marked increase for everybody in video calls and things like that. And so it is interesting for call calls where they're more social. One of the things actually that's, that's really interesting that I've discovered is like, friends will reach out to me and they'll be like, oh, do you want to talk? Do you want to zoom? And if it's, if it's a friend that I kind of don't have to impress, I'll be like, can we just do the phone? Because I have dinner? And so I've actually, I've actually reverted to telephone calls and less data in some ways with the people that I'm closest to because they know that it's okay to, you know, like, I'll be taking a walk or I'll be, I'll be, you know, cooking food or, you know, just doing something when I'm talking to them. And we have the space where that is okay. But business wise for me, it's, you know, certainly I derive a lot of my income from speaking as well, from teaching. I was going to be in Russia last week teaching at a business school called Skolkovo. I was going to be in Egypt on vacation this week. Next week I was going to be giving a talk in Dallas. I was going to be going to a board meeting, of which I'm on the board in Virginia. The week after that, we were both going to be going to ted. So. So all of that is. Has changed. And I am not traveling. You know, obviously I'm staying put as long as one needs to stay put. But, yeah, one thing I do feel fortunate about in terms of the work that I do, and I know that certainly this is something that has been a part of your business as well. But starting in 2014, I made a very concerted push into online courses. And, you know, I'll say I started experimenting in 2014, 2015, 2016 is when I made a very concerted push into courses. And part of it was sort of a learning journey, which I ended up chronicling in my most recent book. I'll do a prop for that one. Too.

Entrepreneurial, you. And most importantly, it features Jenny Blake and I interviewed her and I did actually an article. I have a LinkedIn newsletter. It's a new thing. LinkedIn has started doing newsletters and last week I did an article about insights from Jenny Blake from Entrepreneurial. You from this, from this interview that we did. And if folks want to subscribe to my LinkedIn newsletter and actually get access to it, just go to Dory. You can open a new window right now. Go to doryclark.com LinkedIn and it will take you to my newsletter. You hit the blue subscribe button, but if you scroll down you can find the Jenny Blake article with her insights, which is pretty cool. So I do feel really fortunate that actually I've been very conscious for quite a while about not just creating multiple income streams, but also the question of how to make sure that you're creating countercyclical elements in your business. And so online learning really is pretty counter cyclical. And, and so thankfully my income, my revenue has actually been really quite solid. But it's never great for anybody to have a sustained recession, so we all have to be really conscious of that. And so I just want to mention to you guys who are watching, we're going to be taking questions imminently and so please type your questions into the chat box. My assistant, why am I waving my phone? It's because.

LinkedIn hasn't created the API yet so that we can actually see the questions. But my trusty assistant John is texting me your questions, so we've got a good stream of them coming in. So please type in your questions now and at any point throughout the conversation. And we're going to be turning to them very shortly. So we're excited to get your insights there.

And I also want to add on that note, thank you so much. I saw a lot of you already wrote comments that said thank you for your transparency. I can't really type back while chatting with Dori, but thank you and, and I can say I'm happy to be an open book. So if you ask questions, don't be shy, don't feel like they're too personal or too specific. I have a small community momentum for small business owners and I'm an open book in there. I think it's the only way we get through this is and Dori has been such a helpful friendor for me in this way and hopefully vice versa, where sometimes you just need to hear specifics and that's what's going to get us through. So I welcome whatever's on your mind. Whatever would be most helpful for all of you during this time.

That's awesome, Jenny. Thank you. And I just want to highlight Jenny's great coinage of the word friend tour, which she talks about and uses. It's like you're a friend and a mentor simultaneously. And certainly I regard Jenny that way as well. I mean, one of the most important things that we can do in business, honestly, is I think it is such nonsense, the idea that some people propound that, oh, you shouldn't. You shouldn't do business with your friends. Okay, let me just parse that for a minute. If you shouldn't do business with your friends, does that mean that your friends are not trustworthy people? Because may. Or maybe that your friends are not competent people? Well, in that case, maybe you should get new friends. Because the people that I most want to do business with are my friends because I love them and I trust them and I respect them, like Jenny Blake. And so I think that it is enormously valuable for all of us to cultivate communities where we have friends who we do business with and they are in the same business with you, because those are the people who can give you the real insights. What people actually need is information about, like, well, what do you charge about this? Or what's your business model for this? Or how much did they pay you? Or, you know, somebody said this weird thing to me. How should I respond? You need people who are knowledgeable and are able to give you good advice. And if you are trying to separate your personal life and your professional life and treat it like they're, you know, it's like radioactive waste or something, and never the two shall meet. It is. I think that's really problematic. I think it's great to have friend tours like that. And I just want to mention if you guys want more insights from me and. Or Jenny, because I know I wrote about this in my newsletter. Jenny wrote about this in her newsletter. So you may be coming from different places. If you want to keep in touch and keep getting more insights. If we're not yet connected, please go to my LinkedIn profile. You can open it in a separate window. Go to my LinkedIn profile, Dori Clark. Click follow. And you can do the same with Jenny. Go to her link LinkedIn profile and follow her so that you can stay in touch and get the updates and keep getting insights like this. So, Jenny, I just. Before we turn to our audience questions, I want to just talk about another question that you raised in your newsletter that I thought was pretty cool, which is what Is sheltering at home giving you permission to say no to that you're actually relieved and delighted about? And how might that inform future work and future choices? That's a very thought provoking question. Where is that coming from for you? How are. How are you leveraging the power of no?

Well, first of all, I love a good Dory rant, so thank you for sharing thoughts on friend tourism. I will say not only I don't ever partner with people. Like no one's going to own any percentage of my business that's mine. And I'm not trying to marry anyone in this journey of entrepreneurship.

Like Michael would have a problem with it if you did. Jenny's already my actual husband.

Yeah, but I've always been very careful about never giving away parts of my business. That said, partnering on initiatives and projects and piloting things together like Dori and I are doing now. Dory's been on the Pivot podcast three times. We do so much together and it's this really fun, ongoing unfolding relationship and friendship that we both get so much out of. And I will also say I work with some very large companies that are some of the biggest companies in the world and still the point person that I work with over years are friends to me. Like, we have a great rapport. I love their energy and vice versa. So even those relationships have turned into such friendships that lasts far beyond the work itself. And Dori mentioned my newsletter. It's pivotmethod.com pivotlist if you want to get I send it weekly. Ish this question. I have been noticing some relief and maybe this is my introvert side or my social curmudgeon. I don't know. I'm not as social as Tori, but.

I'm an introvert too. I hate.

I know, but you're so good about getting things on the calendar and leaving the house. Even during normal times. I feel like I'm more of a hermit by default.

How fascinating. Like, I am curious for all of you who are here watching, listening, what have you been secretly relieved that. Oh, sorry, shelter at home. Oh, sorry, can't do that thing. Oh darn. Don't have to commute today. I'm just so curious. And I think we can all get very curious during this time. There are some obvious things that we're relieved not to do. But what are the more subtle commitments or things that you might in the past feel pressure to say yes to? Or a concept I'm playing with is micro guilt. Like, it's not guilt that you've broken the law or something. But there's this micro guilt when you say no to certain things. But if we're being truly honest with ourselves, they're a should I call them sometimes sexy shoulds or shiny shoulds. They're shoulds that sound good. And yet there's some part of you that doesn't really want to say yes. And I'm just wondering what this time is giving us an opportunity to say no to. And what are you learning about that? What are you learning about the ways that you're relieved? The things like for me, it's weird to say this because so much of my income has vanished, but I'm kind of relieved not to be on a plane every two weeks. In a way. As I said at the start, I can hear myself think again. So what's that about? Does it mean that I'm going to be more selective when this is over or I'm going to raise my prices again in terms of in person events? And by the way the this happening, I plan to raise my prices on the other side because holy f. Do I need to build in, you know, built in a future pandemic. So it's like there is a premium now because having gone through this, like there is going to be a premium to help small businesses weather these kinds of storms. And I think so many of us are learning that lesson the hard way. But it's a good lesson to learn. And I know all about a business reserve account. I was ready. I had a plan to fund that thing for six months. I just didn't get to it in time. So I will also say that for some of us it's like despite the best intentions, we can try to check off every single box and there's still going to be things that we missed. So that's my, my opportunity. The inquiry around saying no. How about you, Dori? Has there been stuff that you're kind of relieved to not be doing right now?

Well, I mean certainly the travel can, can reach a level where it gets, it gets overwhelming. I mean, I was literally going to be on the road three out of four weeks in April. It was going to be my busiest travel month of the year. So, you know, in some ways there is the relief that I don't have to be on quite so many planes. I mean, of course it created administrative chaos for me and you know, the world is having bigger problems than me being or not being on an airplane. But, but yeah, it is, it is nice to be able to be at home and sort of establish, quieter rituals. I have been taking. I mean, I did it this morning. I've been taking walks every single morning by the river because, you know, it's. I think it's very much this, like, don't think of an elephant kind of scenario where, you know, of course, the minute you hear that, you're like, elephant. I can't stop thinking about an elephant. And so similarly, when. Whenever it's like, you know, oh, you know, shelter in place, stay at home, I'm just like, oh, my God, I gotta get out. And of course, the only way that you're like, allowed to get out is like, you know, going outside by yourself, you know, and six feet away and all that. So I have been taking walks by the river every morning, which is. Which is really nice. And, you know, I'm going around with my mask and all of that. But. But it's. It's quite. It's quite lovely. It's quite a lovely way to start the day. And it's something that I think is both healthy and kind of tranquil. You know, I do find myself kind of getting. Getting ideas on the walk, you know, just the way you're supposed to. And it's something that often in the hurly burly, I'm too busy to do normally. So I think that that is something that I've really enjoyed. The other thing that I think is interesting that I've noticed is that, okay, FOMO has gone away, which is kind of fascinating because no one else is doing anything either. And so you don't like the things that sometimes you would have felt, oh, but, you know, so and so is going to be there or I really should go to that. Or oh, God, she got invited and I didn't get invited. Nope. Literally no one is doing anything. And so, you know, you don't have to actually worry about doing something because someone else is. You could just like, play your own game and feel very confident with that, which I think is. Is quite liberating.

But yeah.

And then we'll go to the audience questions.

Yeah, I'm having FOMO that I'm not wearing my lucky llama sweatshirt. So it still happens. Two, I think some people are feeling productivity FOMO and compare and despair. And I just want to say, although I'm putting out a daily podcast because I feel called to serve in that way. I've also said multiple times in my email newsletter and to friends and in momentum don't compare to that. Like, I have done so many things to try to adapt during this time. Partly because the nature of what I do is called pivot and it's about pivoting and that's completely in the zeitgeist right now. And I'm hearing the word multiple times a day across every industry. At the same time, this FOMO for being productive is like, don't worry if you're missing out on the Pinterest worthy pandemic or the uber productive book writing pandemic. It's we all are going to process at our own pace. And I think that some people feel really called and have a lot of energy and even adrenaline to step up and serve right now. For better and for worse. Someone said yesterday on one of my calls, it's their coping mechanism, which is so interesting. And then some of us are going to be more quiet or you're just going to need to rest. When I left Google Back in 2011, I was a pile of goo for two months. I was watching TV at 7am that's really unlike me. Before binge watching was a thing, I was binging and just a vegetable. And I thought I was like, what's wrong with me? And I think so many of us are used to such a fast pace. Especially if you were going into an office and you're working on that Monday, Monday through Friday, you know, all day schedule. That's exhausting. And so for many people right now your job is just stay quiet, calm, rest, recharge, trust that you're going to get so many downloads. It's just they might not come at the same cadence that they are for others, but everyone will come through this changed. It just is going to look different. And your spikes of productivity and even if you see someone being productive from the outside like me, I like I'm on the verge of tears every other day. It just depends the timing. And then sometimes I'm super excited and happy like right now. So this changes hour by hour.

Yeah, I think, I think that's a really important message, Jenny. I mean we do need to be gentle with ourselves and I want to. Yes. And it, because I think I, you know, it's interesting because I think I see these sort of message like I'll call it like messaging swings of like where, you know, and it's all happening so fast. This is literally like day to day, week to week during the pandemic. But the first wave was like, what are all the things you can do? You can learn to play the guitar, you can take this and this and you know, and then like kind of week two is like, wait we can't all do that, you know? And so I think, as with all things, right, we have to find a healthy balance. And so I, you know, I want to validate what you're saying and also say, look, it actually is a really great time to get things done. And so only, you know, you writ large, know sort of where your tendencies are. What? My father was a psychiatrist, and he used to say that basically people only had two things wrong with them. One of two things, and that was that they either needed help because they were screwed too tight and they needed to be loosened, or they were screwed too loose, and they needed to be. Wait, did I get that wrong? They were screwed too tight and they need to be loosened, or they're screwed too loose and they need to be tightened. And so only, you know, each of us knows where we fall on this, and so we have to be gentle with ourselves. But also, this is a time to step up. And I think it's important, you know, like, some people can be triumphalist about their productivity or, oh, I did this, and I did this. But I think also it is important to talk about it. Like, the fact that you're podcasting is great. I wrote two LinkedIn courses in a weekend. Right? I wrote 12,000 words in a weekend. And I'm not saying this to brag. What I'm saying is, I think in the interest of transparency of all types, it's important to tell people what you're doing so they know what's possible. Okay. Like, it is possible to create a podcast every day. Like, it's. It's, you know, so, like, no, I mean, everybody might have extenuating circumstances, but I think that. But using this time in a productive way, because it is so miserable in so many ways, if we can get our own silver lining out of it, I think that that can be a really powerful thing, as long as we're not being mean to ourselves about the need for it. So, Jenny, with that, why don't we turn to what our awesome people are saying? John has been sending in questions. Thank you. To everybody who's been putting in questions. Please type them in if you like this conversation. If this is helpful to you, click Share. Click share. So. And, you know, click, like, click share so that other people can see it and benefit from it. We love talking to you about reinvention and pivoting. And so, Jenny, the first question we've got is she. Okay, so our friend. Our friend Linda in Nashville wants to know. She just wants your opinion. How much should we Count on the workshops or engagements that have been postponed to the fall. Do you think that they actually are postponed, or do you think they're really going to be canceled? What's your gut take on that?

I've been giving this a lot of thought and I like to keep an abundance mindset. And also I like to never count myself out or count income out. So let me give that caveat.

And please, I am not a pandemic specialist. Okay? I'm just doing this alongside each of you. But I'm sensing for at least four stages right now, we're in a pause. We're just sheltering at home and processing. So pause and processing, navigating the crisis. People are going to start doing more. As Dori was just saying, this is a time to step up. There is a call to rise and to serve. So to Dori's point, I like to ask, how can I serve? And you can ask that in a macro sense or you can ask that in a daily sense, but we're all going to be asked to serve through the crisis while we're sheltering at home, while we're quarantined, while people are getting sick. Then I anticipate recession or depression. I don't know which one, and I don't want to be fatalistic about it. I think a lot of financial experts don't even want to say we're for sure going to have a depression because they don't want the market to tank. But there's no question that companies are going to tighten the belt. And I think for a while after that we have recovery. So how long each of those stages going to last, I'm not sure. I'm trying to prepare my business and how I respond, both in terms of the context of. Context of how I work. Like Dori mentioned, pivoting to virtual, but also the content. So I'm also already finding that my website language is changing and it's probably going to stay that way. It's going to stay different than it was. A lot of companies I'm seeing are postponing events to 2021. So while I'm hopeful that some will see the need to help employees pivot and adapt to these challenging times and uncertainty and anxiety that so many of us are facing. And I also teach managers how to have those conversations. I'm very hopeful that some companies will see the need and create the budget for that sooner than later. But I will say that even certain companies I work with that are very flush with cash and budget, they're Just not ready. They're not ready and their employees are not ready. Everyone is still mid pivot of adapting to even being at home every day. So I think we can plan for the fall. And yet it's so important to be ready that what if events didn't truly and fully come back online till 2021? Even Microsoft just announced all their events will be virtual until summer 2021. So I do think we're going to see even if things come back in terms of having large events or gatherings, and that's also contingent on budget. So unless you're working with companies, let's say, in the tech sector, that just simply aren't affected, there's going to be so many downstream effects and waves of the layoffs and how that affects spending and how that affects saving and then recovery. I just think it's too soon to even say. But that's my initial analysis on the situation. Dori, feel free to add anything.

Yeah, I think that's right on, Jenny. I think that's a great point. And the only thing that I'll add is that this speaks to the importance and this is a good best practice for entrepreneurs, solopreneurs in general. But it underlines the importance of getting money up front for your engagements. We have to be rigorous about that. If you can get all your money up front, fantastic. If not, get half upfront. I have a number of engagements. I mean, you know, a lot of, a lot of speeches, a lot of workshops that have been postponed. Whether they will take place again or whether they'll be canceled, I'm not sure. But I have half the money. And so they are, they are essentially invested in me in that way. So if the event is rescheduled, I'm going to be part of it because they've already paid me half the fee. If not, it might go virtual and we might come to an agreement, for instance, where I end up converting it to a virtual engagement or something like that. But it really helps to already have skin in the game and to have money that locks you in so they can't just as easily wave it off.

Awesome. Jenny, I want to move to the next question. This is an important one. Laura wants to know, how do you cut through all the noise with everyone sending a newsletter, advertising a free webinar, et cetera, et cetera, case in point. So I guess we're part of the noise. Hopefully we're helpful noise. But how do we cut through? Like, you know, for somebody who is saying, oh, you know, you know, I want to be Helpful. I want to get my message heard. What the heck do we do?

Great question. And clearly those of you who are here or even listening to the recording, it worked like somehow you came here through the noise. There is so much noise right now. And that just accelerated the trend we were already seeing, which there was already so much noise. I call it like peak information or peak ping. So many inboxes, so many social channels, so much noise. For me, this is. This is simple and it's not always easy. Speak from the heart and be transparent. So some of my values, especially in my Momentum community, we say truth while it's fresh, radical transparency and delightful specificity. And then the fourth is crazy smart systems. That's how I serve. I can do one of those four things. I can speak from the heart. I can be transparent of what's really going on. I can create insanely helpful spreadsheets. You know, like when I see a lot of people talking about cutting subscription services. Well, I already have a tracker that I use to track and I'll put it in the comments. It's bit ly jbreccurring services, all lowercase. And you're welcome to copy that format and use it because you should just always know how much you're subscribing to and you'll see how I run my business. So noise isn't going to work right now. And same old, same old isn't going to work. Posturing isn't going to work. I would challenge each of you, how can you, what is your truth with a capital T today? And how can you serve? And sometimes just being transparent and saying how you're doing, like, I'm finding that so helpful. In the podcast I listen to, I'm so relieved when somebody just says what's really going on and how they're really feeling and they're not trying to posture them, position themselves as like the untouchable expert. But that's my personal thing that I'm attracted to. So the other question that's always served me, I've been blogging since 2005, is who do I admire and why? So who are you? Who cuts through the noise for you? And what are the qualities and trust that you'll attract exactly the right people and the ones who think you're noisy are going to go away, and that's fine, too. How about you, dc?

That's so good. I love it. I think. I think you nailed that, Jenny. And I think it goes into another really important question that Deborah wanted to know. She says Dori Or Jenny, reflecting on a lot of new offers. I've been reflecting on a lot of new offers. Given the disruption of previous offers, what advice can you offer as a way to announce a new offering without seeming insensitive to the current state of things? So this is kind of a delicate thing, right? People are. People are dealing with a pandemic now. In the past three weeks, it looks like 16 million people have lost their jobs. So people are reeling. A certain percentage of people, unfortunately still relatively small but growing, have people who themselves or their loved ones have had Covid. Some people might even have had deaths. And in the midst of all of this, business does need to go on. We do need at some point to start selling again. But how do you do it in a way that doesn't feel opportunistic or crass or like you're just doing the wrong thing that would alienate people? How do you think about that?

Yeah, I think it is.

For me. I. Okay, so we can only know each of us intuitively. For your as Roy said at the start, for. For the business you run, what the prod, what you offer, what you're trying to sell and who you're speaking to. I happened to be relaunching momentum the third week of March. Doors open.

And momentum is what Jenny for people.

Who don't know my private community for heart based business owners and doors opened on March 17th. And I was like, this is a disaster. I mean, it was the first week that so many people were being asked to shelter at home and I decided to keep doors open because I thought for the right people, this is exactly what they need. And no small business owner wants to be alone right now. And some of them might want crazy smart systems, you know, everything I offer. So we decided to keep doors open. And in fact 15 people did join. So it wasn't zero. And I wasn't sure I honestly was ready that no one would join right now. At the same time, something like that is also going to be something that people might cut when they need to go back down to essentials. So it goes both ways. Once doors closed on that, I personally feel it's a little too soon to be selling because I haven't done enough deep listening yet. So with my big corporate clients, I'm trying to have my ear to the ground. I have my ear to the ground. I'm sort of have my antenna up of what's happening culturally and in the zeitgeist and the podcast is helping with that. And then I'm also listening within My own community of pivot podcast listeners, momentum, et cetera. And until I do that, deep listening, I don't feel prepared to try to completely go hard on the selling front yet. I'm giving it a month at least. I mean, definitely till the end of April. But know, too, that that, as Dori said, I firmly believe this as well. Business does need to go on, and there's a specific group of people that you can serve and that need you right now. So I definitely wouldn't shy away from or feel bad about making it clear what you offer. It's just doing that with grace, doing that with.

The intent to serve, and then making it easy for people to engage with you. So it might be creating payment plans, whereas you might not have done that in the past. Or what are the extra kind of bonuses you can throw in to support people during this time who know that they need you, but are just feeling a little nervous about making the investment?

Yeah, that's. That's great, Jenny. And really helpful. I think that, you know, similarly, I am planning. I have not done it yet, but probably in the next few weeks to relaunch my recognized expert course. And I actually was not going to do that until the fall. But I actually believe that for many people, either people who may be affected by job losses or who, you know, know, oh, geez, you know, business is sort of slowing down. They recognize more than ever, it's more salient than ever, that they need to be building their brand and building their platform as an expert to insulate them from future shocks. And so I think that, as you say, for the right people, it is valuable. I think that the most important thing for me, in terms of my philosophy around selling, is that what people don't like, it's not that they don't like, you know, being presented with an offer. What they don't like is they don't like being tricked. And I think that, you know, a lot of times people sort of feel like they have to sort of, you know, weasel their way in. In some ways, it's kind of like the equivalent of somebody who's like, hey, Jenny, can we have a ketchup coffee? And, you know, you're thinking like, oh, it's a social thing. And then, like, they come in and they're like, oh, hey, Jenny, could you introduce me to so and so? Oh, could you connect editor? It's. Yeah, like, there's just like, you know, they've gotten in under false pretenses, essentially. And so I think that if you. If, you know, and this is what I intend to do. Literally, I'm, you know, I'm going to be, you know, sending out to my list and saying, hey, look, if you are, if you, if you think you might be interested in learning more about joining the Recognized Expert Course and community, click here. You know, raise your hand and I will, I will send you more information about that. If you are not interested, don't worry, don't do anything. You won't. You won't hear more about it. I want people to proactively opt into that, and if it's appropriate for them, great. If it's not, then I don't want to be bothering them. If they're like, oh, my God, you know, I can't buy groceries. They certainly don't need to join the Recognized Expert course. But for, for certain people, that's going to be exactly the right thing. So I think that that's. That, that's a really good insight that you shared. So MJ has a question, Jenny. They want to know, how are you marketing yourselves now in a mode especially for solopreneurs and other businesses whose offerings are personal and very present. Obviously, your podcast, I guess, is one way that you're doing it, but what else does that look like? What does your marketing effort look like these days?

So anyone who knows me knows I don't do much. I am very receptive in terms of business building. I invest a lot of energy in my books. I wrote Life After College and Pivot. I do the podcast, which is now mostly daily, and my Pivotless newsletter. That's it. I'm not on any social media. This LinkedIn Live. I'm so happy we're here on LinkedIn, but if Dori hadn't initiated it, I wouldn't have. So I'm very grateful to friend tours like Dory. So that's.

My take on marketing. And this is. I know it's controversial, Dori. I know you're going to disagree with me and it's okay, but I agree. I do feel that Dori calls it, you know, stand out in her book, stand out and even recognize Expert. I call it public original thinking. For me, the bar is this. If the work I do is good enough, somebody will tell a friend. So if you listen to a podcast, I don't feel that I should have to ask you to share it with somebody. You're going to think of a friend that really needs to hear that message on that day, and you're going to send it. And that has worked for me for 9 years. Of full time self employment and since 2005, 15 since I set up my first website. But it's slower and it's a little more, it's not quite as seemingly systematic. So in terms of marketing, I do think that it, it does matter, to be super clear. And I will also say one thing I've done specifically to make it clearer of who can work with me and how because I, I serve many different audiences from the biggest companies all the way to entrepreneurs. You'll see if you go to pivotmethod.com how I've segmented the landing page. There's actually like, choose your own adventure. There's four different paths and you end up on four different places in the website. That's really important so that as you, whoever you catch with whatever marketing efforts you're doing, whether it's Facebook ads or original content, like something like this, make it clear of where, who you're serving, where they should go and what's the first next step.

Yeah, thank you, Jenny. That's great. And it's true. I disagree a little bit. I think Jenny is right. Of course. The starting point, the most important initial thing is making sure that you have a really high quality product. And by product, that can be anything. A high quality podcast, a high quality newsletter, a high quality book, high quality coaching service, you know, whatever it is, you need to have something that is worth talking about and worth sharing. That being said.

I, it's my personal belief that many people just being so busy in today's economy forget. They forget to share, they forget to, you know, it's, it's just like it doesn't occur to them. Like, would a normal person, for instance, write an Amazon review for a book? I mean, clearly some people do. Some people, like, it's their hobby to write Amazon reviews for books. But for the vast majority of people, you kind of don't do it. And it is so important for an author to have Amazon reviews. And most people who are not authors themselves don't know that. And so you have to be like, can you please write an Amazon review? Like, someone will email me and they'll be like, your book was so amazing. And I'm like, thank you so much. Could you put this on Amazon so other people can, you know, can know and it just. Because otherwise it wouldn't be a natural reflex. Yeah. So anyway, that being said, if you're enjoying this session, please hit share on your LinkedIn feed so you can share it and spread the word to other people. And if you are interested in learning more from me or Jenny, go open a new window. Go to our LinkedIn profile. Click Follow Dori Clark. Click follow Jenny Blake so you can hear more. But. But we will continue with answering your questions. Please type in more questions into the chat box too. We're tackling lots of them. A great one came in. I thought this was interesting from Pia. Pia wants to know everyone is pivoting and pivoting quickly and I think it's clear that nobody knows what's going to happen. Well, that is true. I'm thinking of not jumping in right now and instead wait and watch and observe what happens first and then find my place in how to help where it's needed. At the same time, I'm wondering if not making offers now will mean I start to look for ways to generate revenue when the economy is even worse. Curious about your thoughts. What do you make of that, Jenny Blake?

It's a great question and built into it is the spectrum of are you moving based on an intuitive call or are you moving to avoid fear? So the spectrum is like a pull a magnet versus avoiding fear. So I heard in the second part of the question of fear, oh no, like you almost your intuition is saying, wait a, wait a minute. Just listen, observe, watch. And then you also had a fear that came up, well, oh no, what if I don't jump in? I'm gonna miss the boat. And I love. I had another conversation with one of my other greatest friend tours mentors. Her name is Penny Pierce and her question to us yesterday was what is the one courageous next step you can take? Every day we can ask ourselves either how can I serve today? Or what is one courageous next step I can take? It's going to look different. I wouldn't worry too much about missing any boats. And I saw another question someone asked about what do you recommend to people graduating during this time? That is where I do get really.

Clear with myself. I'm not going to let the media or anybody give me a story that I'm not going to succeed because so right now we're seeing all these headlines, oh no. Graduates. People who graduate in a recession, they're screwed for life. That's the message that they're pretty much sending right now. They're, they earn less for the rest of their career. That might be the majority, but it doesn't have to be you. So shake that story off like a bad.

A fly.

Like get that that story blanket off.

Be like Taylor Swift with John Mayer.

That's right, totally. Like, do not accept any story that creates stress or negativity for you or brings you down.

I agree. Like, I also feel that it's a little bit time to wait and watch and see and trust that you will be moved to act when it's time. And you could ask yourself every day, just show me when next, next step, show me whatever higher power you believe in or universe or out there on the Internet and use your inner magnet. Now is the time to tune into that inner magnet because it is the only way forward. As you said, nobody knows the answers, not even the experts. And it's certainly not the President.

So true. So true. Jenny Gregory had a question. He wants to know, is it a bad time to be solo? Is there some kind of a communal alternative, like an entrepreneurial team? What do you think about that? Should we be scared if we're solo?

It's the best of times, it's the worst of times. Listen, if you're solo right now, you are getting a black belt. You are going to be a ninja on the other side of this. If you are solo and you make it through this one way or the other, doesn't matter how what you scrape together and how what pivot portfolio you set up just to make it through, you will make it through anything, period. I'm convinced of this. So is it a bad time? It's certainly not an easy time. This is level 10 now out of 10. So just know that. But I mean, wow, is that going to create so much creativity? I wrote pivot because I didn't know how I was going to pay the rent in two weeks. It's the same thing that's happening now. And that sparked my aha moment. That helped me come up with the pivot method, that helped me pay the rent, that helped launch this whole next phase of my career.

And now everyone's talking about, oh, I can't even wait.

Yeah, it's going to be called like pandemic.

I don't know, but it's just the pandemic method. Oh, I like it. You know?

Yeah, they say like constraints breed creativity. Innovation. What is it that's saying, like necessity is the mother of innovation or whatever? Yep, I'm bungling it.

Necessity is the mother of invention, I think. Yeah.

Of invention. Okay, so I think don't tell yourself the story, like any of us could tell ourselves the story. Wow, what a terrible time to be self employed. I love Google. I still work with Google. There's not one minute of one day in nine years where I've regretted my choice to leave and go out on my own. Even now, no matter how hard and confusing and uncertain things are, I'm so grateful to work for myself and no one can take that away from me. And I will not accept a story that it's a bad time to be self employed, even though that's we're seeing the carnage in the small business space every week in the news. That is something I also will continue to hold a candle for. Like, it might not be an easy time, but I'm going to find a way and so are you.

Yeah, that's really empowering, Jenny. I think that's great. And Greg, to your point, I just want to say this. You know, for better or for worse, right. One of the realities that we have to be aware of is that challenging times exacerbate inequality. And I mean it in a lot of different ways. One specific way that it exacerbates things is that the people who have been, who are successful and have been successful will typically become more successful. They'll get more market share, they'll get more powerful. And so what what we need to do in terms of thinking about our brands, it is your brand that enables you to survive because you attract people to you and you become this kind of powerful incumbent. It is challenging, of course, but if you can take the time when you're not necessarily working with as many clients or things like that, and instead of frittering the time which some people do, and instead double down on your content creation and your platform building so that you can become better known, that is what actually enables you to become much more prominent and resilient. And by the time we get into a boom cycle, people will be like, oh, Greg, I've been reading about him for years. I love his work, I love his ideas. And you are going to be able to capture the lion's share of the benefit that comes with the inevitable rebound. So I think that's one of the.

Things to think about and even a great point story and even like Greg was so helpful during this stressful time. Wow, you build so much trust and relationship. And I want to clarify one thing I saw, I think it was Shannon or Sharon. So sorry, the name just flipped my mind but had asked was I acting out of fear When I wrote Pivot to Pay the Rent, I just compressed the order I needed to figure out how to pay the rent. And so the strategies that I used in order to do that when all the business and career books I had read weren't working about nine months later, that's what really kind of like I was then able to. Once things bounced back and I had my best year ever, I was able to synthesize that into what became Pivot and the Pivot method. So I was just trying to highlight the problem solving that occurs in moments like these. That's the gold. And it's almost like when the tidal wave rolls off the shore, there's the. Everything left on the beach. Some of it's trash, some of it's treasure. And, you know, and then. I love your comments, too, Dori. I think this, if you're. If you're solo right now.

It is going to be rough. Like, I do think you're going to need to get more creative about streams of income than you might during normal times, too.

Yeah, absolutely. Creating. Creating multiple streams of income, which is something that I talk about in this book, entrepreneurial, you can be really powerful. I mean, now is the time, right, to start to build those assets. The blog, the podcast. Like, you know, this is how, you know, it doesn't happen overnight, right? Nobody builds a successful podcast or whatever overnight or what have you, but it gives you a newsletter. It gives you a way to reach people, to connect with them so that everything is easier both in the boom and with the next downturn. So, Jenny, I want to ask you a challenging question here. This is from William. William, he says, how does one pivot within the hospitality industry? With travel and theme parks closed in Central Florida, many of us, including myself, are furloughed. Obviously, travel and hospitality has been hit harder than almost anything in the midst of this pandemic. What is your advice for folks who find themselves in that situation, if they're in, you know, entertainment or restaurants or travel or things like that that are especially, you know, bludgeoned by this situation?

First, I'm sorry to hear, William, that you have been furloughed. That must be really stressful. And even the uncertainty of that, and if and when things will come back online, I don't think anybody knows the answer. It's so unprecedented of what's going on in the service and hospitality industry. I will tell you, the. This statement is getting panned right now from a lot of sides. The, oh, life is happening for you and not to you. I totally understand the critique of that. And yet the only thing that has ever helped me in my life, in my worst moments, is asking the question, if I were the main character in a movie, how is this happening for my perfect. At the perfect time, in the perfect way for my evolution and highest growth, growth. And so if you can at least sit with that question, how is this happening, you know, at the perfect time, in the perfect way for your highest evolution and personal growth, what might some answers be? And I know that that doesn't tell you what to do on the tactical front. It just might help you process why. Why is it that you are kind of lumped into this group? What is the furlough teaching you? What are you. Was there anything whispering to you before this all went down? That is getting louder and louder now? What are the opportunities? What do you want on the other side? And I think a lot of people, especially who are furloughed, I mean, might just, might just be a waiting game. You just wait until everything's back online and you're not alone in that. You're with so many other people in the country who are in that boat and in the world. And then there's going to be a small percentage who say, I'm furloughed. Huh? Huh? Was I happy with the way things were? Am I happy in this industry? Do I want to go back into it or do I want to make a change? And as I saw someone else write in the comments now, it's one that a lot of us are investing in our own skill building, education and coaching. I even signed it up for a coach during this time, as crazy as it is, because I want someone to hold a higher consciousness for me even when I can't see it for myself, Even when it feels like this is all just a disaster and there's no good to be found. I know that. That it's not true.

Yeah, that's really powerful. Jenny and William, I just want to add something. There's a story that I tell in this book, Reinventing you, that I think might be helpful. It's about a woman named Lisa who went through an entire program. She got a JD, she got a PhD in the study of law, and she had thought all along she wanted to be a law professor. And she suddenly was like, oh, God, no, I don't want to do that. She had this sudden realization, and for a lot of people that would be like, oh, no. Well, you've just like basically wasted 10 years of your life. But what she did that I think is so powerful, and I think you can do this as well. Many of us can do it. Is all the people around her, all the sort of voices in her head were saying, well, you know, what can you do? Like, look at your resume. You could be a lawyer or you could be a law professor or that's it. And that was technically the buckets that they had her in. But what she did instead, she wasn't looking at the lines on her resume. She said, what are the skills that I have and are those skills transferable? And so instead of, you know, categorizing herself, oh, I'm a lawyer, she said, well, I'm good at public speaking. She said, I know a lot of languages. She had had to study languages in her doctoral program. She said, I'm really good at writing. And, you know, so she started thinking about those things and she said, well, where else can I use those things? And she was able to reinvent herself into a career in the wine industry industry, which was a real passion of hers. And so I think by taking a sort of ground up, skills based approach, it can be quite powerful. So we're coming up on the close, Jenny, I want to make sure we're getting at least just one more question here. Tracy had a question. She wants to know, Jenny, what can you say about pivoting into the unknown? There seems to be a need to plan for the future, but also to develop resilience for new opportunities that may open up that we never expected. How do we handle this when sort of the future destination is a little bit unclear?

It's wild, right? That's why the subtitle of my book is the only move that matters is your next one. Because even four years ago when this came out in 2016, I knew that it's an illusion to think that we have a plan. David White is the poet and I love his quote, that which you can plan is too small for you to live. So often the best things that happen to us, we don't plan for. They're not written down on our goal sheet or it's blessings in disguise. Things that at the time we think are the worst thing ever turn out to be this pivotal moment in our lives. And you're exactly right that right now the only plan is there is no plan. Your job is to wake up in the morning and make it through. And then as Dori said, try to try to put yourself out there when you're ready and and serve and step up during this time. I definitely agree. This is a call for all of us to rise and for all of us to evolve. And I've said it on my podcast and in my community, we are all getting a black belt in pivoting. Whether you thought you were the expert on it, I wrote pivot because I didn't feel very resilient prior to understanding the principles that I talk about in the book. I just so you all know, I'm not some change expert that since the day I was born, I love to change so much. It was quite the contrary. I wrote a blog post once called 10,000 hours of neuroses. That's what I thought I had perfected in my 20s. It's just worrying and anxiety and people pleasing and perfectionism. And it's a lot of what I talk about in pivot that's helped me through. So you're right. We are pivoting into the unknown. We are pivoting daily. We are getting pivoted. And the only thing we can do is wake up every day and really take it one day at a time and hold plans loosely. And I'm also trying to have kind of parallel plans, so best case, middle case, and worst case, you know, and they're loose, they're not too serious. I don't attach to any of it. But I'm trying to hold the candle for the highest vision while still planning for omfg. What if I don't make any money for the rest of the year, which I don't think will happen, but I want to be smart and prepared for any of those scenarios.

Yeah, Jenny, thank you. That's great. And I think that's really powerful. We've covered a lot of ground in the past hour. We have quoted Rilke, we've quoted David White. And.

I'll give us a Zen saying, which just to emphasize what Jenny is talking about, which is the Zen masters like to say, chop wood, carry water. All you can focus on is just the things in front of you that you can control. We're going to spiral pretty fast. If we're trying to prognosticate and wrap our arms around things that we just don't. We just don't know. No one can know it categorically. And so all we can do is say, well, what is the action that makes sense right now? What is something I can do right now that I know will help my business regardless? It could be boom times, it could be bust. But if you're building your newsletter, if you're creating content and putting out ideas to the world, if you're networking and building relationships with interesting people, that will always be helpful. And so, Jenny Blake, Jake, thank you so much for joining me on this LinkedIn Live. This is great for folks who want to learn more about you. Stay in touch with you. Where do we send them?

You can go to pivotmethod.com we mentioned the Pivot List newsletter. That's pivotmethod.com pivotlist and you can subscribe to Pivot with Jenny Blake anywhere you listen to podcasts. And I also want to say thank you so much Dory for initiating this and to all of you who are here, what an honor and a joy to spend this time with you. Thank you for all the incredible comments and questions.

Yeah, thank you so much for spending the last hour with us. It's, it's awesome to talk with all of you guys. We can stay in touch again. Follow Jenny follow me on LinkedIn so you can get notifications about more great content that we're putting out. I'm planning to be doing LinkedIn lives regularly and you can subscribe to my newsletter by going to doryclark.com let me try that again. Doryclark.com subscribe and and you can get on the list to get get regular updates that that Forbes has has called thought provoking and high quality. So anyway, thank you everybody. Stay safe out there. Take care. Good luck in your reinvention. We are cheering you guys on. Thanks.

Bye everyone. Thank you. Thanks D.

Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the Pivot Podcast. Make sure you don't miss an episode or my insider tips and templates by signing up for Pivotlist, a curated twice monthly newsletter where I share the inside scoop on what I'm reading, watching, listening to and the latest tools I'm geeking out on. Sign up@pivotmethod.com pivotlist get shown show notes from this episode@pivotmethod.com podcast and connect with me on Twitter ennyblake.

Remember, build first, then your courage will follow. Hasn't it always.