217: We're Bored—Wandering with Michael Karsouny (Listen at Your Own Risk!)

Hi, this is Charles Michael Davis. Toyotathon is on, so stop by your local Toyota dealer for incredible year end deals on the cars, trucks and SUVs known for their legendary reliability like the stylish and efficient Camry, the Ready for anything RAV4 or check out a rough and rugged Tacoma or Tundra, all with great financing and lease options available to qualified customers. Visit buyatoyota.com to find out more. Toyota let's go places.

What's next? This is a question we're all having to ask and answer more frequently. I'm Jenny Blake, your host of the Pivot podcast and author of Pivot. The only move that matters is your next one.

For show notes from this episode, visit pivotmethod.com podcast if Change is the only constant, then let's get better at it. Here we go.

All right friends, if you want to talk experimental podcast, this has got to be it. Michael and I were extremely bored for the first time in a very long time the other day and so we figured the only thing that we could think to do given that we're still sheltering at home here in New York City and there just didn't feel like that many options, was to hit record on a podcast. Which before I knew it, the session became a series of podcasts. We are loopy, we are informal, we are all over the place. We even discuss the tension between me wanting to create with intention and something helpful and useful for you here listening and my goal's perspective, which is let's just create and see where it goes. I'm telling you now, listen at your own risk. If you are like me and you don't always love wandering random conversational podcasts, you you probably won't like this one. Then again, I did get a few Pivot listener survey responses that said we enjoy getting to know you. During this daily podcasting of the pandemic, somebody said you actually sound like a real person, not just an online marketer, and that made me laugh out loud and I was really grateful. And you, I won't name names, but you are giving me the courage to hit publish on these conversations with Michael because I just do not know if you're gonna get any value out of them. If nothing else, I think our intention, our hope is that you can relate. If you're bored, maybe that's the day. Just save this, bookmark it, boomerang it for a day that you're feeling really bored, know that you're not alone and have a little random entertainment as if you're sitting in our house with us. Shoot in the breeze. Enjoy, everybody. And forgive me, this one kicks off before we officially hit record. But Michael saw that in GarageBand. The last episode I had up was called why Bother? And I love Jen Loudon. Oh, my goodness. I loved that interview so much. It was episode 210. So we start off by him asking, why bother? What's this doing on your computer? Because it doesn't sound like a question. I would usually say, okay, onward to the show. Listen at your own risk. What happens when you're asking, why bother with life? She wrote a book.

You're bored and you're trapped inside.

Can't do shit. That's when you ask, why bother?

Listen, Michael and I are bored out of our minds today. Well, I'm fiddling with it. Listen, I have it how I like it. Oh, boy, here comes the audio expert. Fixing, rearranging my mic.

We're not on the show yet.

I thought it's supposed to be at an angle.

Not when two of us are there just, like, speaking.

All right, well, watch those bursts, you know? Yeah, don't get it in the red.

Welcome, everyone. This is a show about boredom.

Michael and I are, for the first time we've decided in this entire sheltering at home. This is the first day we both looked at each other. We're bored out of our mind. We had no clue what to do.

We're never bored. We're never bored.

We're always reading, creating, working, walking the dog, resting. But we're never just looking at each other, bored out of our mind. And that's today. So after some pondering, we said, I asked, I looked at him. Want to record a podcast? And here we are. That somehow sparked some amount of joy.

Yeah, a podcast about boredom where we can rant, you know, just do something.

Yeah, an unfiltered rant. And, you know, I always. I always set the intention for any episode at all, that it's got to be useful somehow. For those of you who are here listening, my beloved listeners. And I thought you must have hit a point of boredom throughout this whole thing, right? We can't be the only ones. So maybe it would make you feel a little better if you can't. If you can tolerate a wandering podcast about nothing.

Yeah. That being said, intention, schmintension.

If it were up to Michael, we would just dilly dally around.

Dilly dally in front of the microphone and then cut it up. Or not even cut it up.

Release it unfiltered with no care about who's listening? That's your mode.

No care.

I mean, you don't take it into consideration. You would create for yourself and then if someone finds it useful, that's a bonus, not a requirement.

It's not a requirement.

It's not a requirement.

No, it's not.

Although there's something to be said about at least knowing your audience.

He says with no smile at all.

He says with lifeless eyes, a should all over your face.

You know what? It's always been a should for me and I'm trying to wrap my head around it still.

Because how would you describe yourself as an artist? If it has really nothing to do with the impulse to, you know, what serve others? What's it like?

No, no, Yesterday is very, it's very interesting. Yesterday I was watching Godar. Godar. Godard.

Like video essay.

Are you saying it so that us lowly American Jean Luc Godar. And how do you say it?

Jean Luc Godard.

So watching Jean Luc Godard docu essay film. And he was saying something about cinema, how it should combine method with feeling. And I really like that. Okay, Method being, you know, you need to have at least some sort of structure or a goal or. Jordan Peterson has a lot to say about, about goals and goal setting and you need to have something aim for and. But I don't think I, I agree with that because I like it when the universe guides my steps and you know.

The universe gets you places rather than, I don't know when, when. When I have goals. It's just, it's not as enticing anymore.

I also think aside from goals, it's such an interesting impulse to create, which is that you would think about what do you need to resolve or what's within you or what's juicy for you right now.

And that changes. Like, so you set a goal and you're like, okay, it's going to be amazing. And then you just do it. And then halfway through it just changes.

But then I would. But then my thought process is, what do people need? Let me put my ear to the ground. Let me listen.

That's true.

What can I create for you? Or what have I. What is one of my struggles that I can simplify and then share? So you listener, have to go through the same thing.

Yeah, mine is.

I don't think you have it like that.

No, no, mine is what does my soul need? How can I figure that out and document it so that. Because we're all human and all of us have, you know, souls and inner lives and how can I be one example of 9 billion people. And by doing it on such a personal level, I can hopefully reach people who are somehow going through the same experience.

And what's interesting about that is that you give yourself total freedom to be in your own unique bubble, if you want.

Yeah, we're not unique. We're all alike.

But I'm saying you're not even putting pressure on yourself to kind of fit what's needed out there. You're just looking at yourself and your soul and your needs as this one example.

There is in there, of course, you know.

Oh, my goodness.

Can you. What is your.

Without. Yahweh is Arabic.

Lebanese Arabic.

Did you know that in Lebanese Arabic, a means. Yes, I think so.

It's like, I don't want to embarrass myself and translate it wrong, but I think whale means woe, woe. So, yeah, whale. It's woe on me, woe unto me. I think it's something like that.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

What's the context that someone would say.

Excuse me. Treat my listeners kindly, please?

No, I am. I am. It's funny, like, because I've, you know, I don't usually interact.

He likes to make fun of me. That's not true.

No, no, that's not true. That's not true. And then. You know.

Why?

Because.

What's your new nickname for me?

Minikish.

She loves mini quiches. Of course.

Who doesn't love a mini quiche?

I don't know. I don't know. I know you love them a lot.

Now. Now we've outed my. My favorite thing to serve guests.

MQ just had a new nickname, and.

Then his is Master Quiche, I guess. So now we've really.

But I don't like quiches. I don't like quiches as much as Danny does, but you got.

The one we just had was delicious.

You made it.

You bought it for you. Well, did you enjoy it?

Sure.

Okay.

Okay, here's the question.

You're an artist to me or to the audience?

To you.

Okay.

Yeah. To you, you're an artist. So you inherently don't have as much structure as someone who has a boss or.

Yeah, I didn't want. I don't want that.

Of course. A regular schedule. So we happen to be bored today. Extremely. So.

I am never bored.

But most days you're not bored ever.

I'm ever never bored.

What would you say? What's your technique for 95% of the time not being.

Wait, wait. You know why I'm Bored?

Why?

Why? I've been bored. Why?

Because I'm not giving you enough.

No, no, that's something else. No, no, I'm bored because I have now a series of things that I do enjoy that I. That I go to. And I don't have anything else to surprise me beyond these. This list of things. Let me break it down. I enjoy reading. I enjoy painting. I enjoy, I don't know, doing some exercise, going on Ryder. Going on walks with Ryder. I have a list of things, and now my brain is just snapping to these things, like, oh, you're not watching. You're not watching. You're not researching film. Oh, okay. Next thing you need to do is you need to read.

You know, active Imagination about Jung shamanism. Things. I have a list of things that I am really excited to do, and I know it's going to make me happy. And now that I know that they're there, I'm not excited anymore to do them. Do you understand?

Is that your rebel side, that the minute there is a list and a structure, the rebel part of you can't stand it.

Because what happened is I definitely short circuited right now. Like, when we decided to do that, when I got bored, I'm like, oh, I could do this and that and that and this and this and that. I'm like, there's just no surprise anymore, you know? Like, all these things are gonna make me happy. I don't want them anymore. And.

Really, that's the trick, because I'm not surprised.

Yeah. My feeling is, what is there to do?

It's like, there's always new things. We could do an experimental podcast. I know, but not podcast, just an experimental recording.

For me, it's that. Well, that's what we're doing.

Okay. Yeah.

But for me, it's that we're sitting, we're in the house, we're inside. So we're sitting and we're inside. And so many activities involve sitting and being inside. And then when I think about leaving the house, my mind first jumped to, oh, we could go grocery store.

There's so many things we can do. That's it. Maybe five.

Not really, though. Yeah, great. Because everything's closed. And so. Okay, we could go to Whole Foods.

Go to Whole Foods. Go on a walk, the dog.

Go to Central Park.

That's it. Maybe take a bike. But I don't know if we're. Are we into it? Yeah. Yeah. George would be so excited, actually, if he knew about that.

Yeah. Our friend George. We could take city bikes.

We could take City bikes and just bike randomly somewhere.

Yeah.

That's why I told you we could, like, get a car and just drive aimlessly.

Sounds like so much hassle right now.

Why?

I don't know. I don't want to be sitting in an inside a thing. That's true, but maybe that takes me back. But also.

But we could. We could be driving, you know?

But the thing is, today is freezing in New York. It feels freezing. At least it's very sunny. The spring that refuses to come, it's 46 degrees. And so I think my hesitation of even going outside and walking aimlessly is. It's cold. I'm tired of feeling cold.

Makes sense.

Yeah. Yeah.

I can't believe it's mid May and we're still.

Did you know Michael Michel Carsoni that we met walking down the street almost four years ago?

Really?

Yeah. It'll be in three weeks, man.

Yeah. That's a long time.

I know. We were saying, this is my. Definitely my longest relationship.

Mine too. Yeah.

Well, Mabruk.

Are you now too bored to be podcasting? He's looking aimlessly out the window. He has a soft, distant gaze out the window. He's no longer with me. Everybody, resuscitate. Resuscitate. What happened? What happened?

What were we gonna talk about?

It's going through your mind. What's here now? Where did you just go?

Focusing on the boredom.

Okay.

I don't know. What were we gonna say? What did we want to record? This is just like documenting our boredom.

Well, we. There's Ryder even chiming.

Even Ryder's board.

No, we didn't. We. The whole. I pulled a Michael because we didn't decide what the outcome was gonna be of this. We just saw it. We're bored. In my mind, I thought, we're bored. Let's record a podcast. Other people must be hitting a point of boredom because Michael and I are relatively late to the boredom game.

What do you guys do when you're bored?

I know. Don't you wish they could answer right now?

Sure.

I think what I want to know, too, is not just specific activities, but what is it that creates boredom? Like, for us, we take pride in not getting bored too often because it means we can entertain ourselves. Like, no matter what's going on, we can always find a good book or something to think about, something to create.

Yeah. It's not about entertainment. It's just I never even think about entertainment.

I think it's like your inner landscape. You find ways to engage with your inner landscape.

Right.

He's now looking on Instagram, bored. And it's all ladies posing selfies.

Oh, selfies. What's up with selfies about boredom?

Women. It's young women selfies. Wow.

Okay.

Is your boredom. Is your hashtag boredom feed, like curated? I wish mine would be all cute dogs or something. But Michael, you're.

I don't know, 65 million posts about boredom. Can you imagine?

I wonder what the Google trend.

55.5555. Look at that numerology. What does 555 mean? Look how bored.

Well, five is freedom.

Let's look at it.

Hold on. So we. We pulled up Google trends and there's definitely a spike in the search term for board.

Board. And peak doubled from 50 to 100. I don't know. What is that good? 100 interest over time searches.

100 interest units. No, a value of 100 is a peak popularity.

Okay, so I guess people got insanely bored at the beginning of April.

It hit peak popularity.

The term bored between March 29 and April 4.

Well, there it is.

Popularity.

There it is. So we're not alone.

So what we're finally. Maybe we kind of held off because we're used to working from home anyways. So everyone lost their mind. But we didn't because it was like we're still adjusting.

We're four months into the cutest pup pup ever. That's true. So he also helps. I mean, I'm not even if I think I'm bored. Oh, it's another dog walk. Always. I have fun when I'm outside. There's cute dogs, friendly people.

It's going. It's going back to 50. It's going back to its usual.

You hear him yawning? That's how bored he is right now. This is why we don't podcast together more, you know?

No, I don't think so.

You're yawning.

No, no, no.

You're bored. Is it maybe looking at the word the trend line for boredom.

Hijacking my my state.

Also, the mic might pick up your beard. Twisting.

Yeah. And twirling my beard. He is.

No maybe. No. I'm very excited about always as a no.

Look, people are the most bored in Vermont, Utah, South Dakota, Idaho and Maine.

What else is new?

Related Queries Bored in the House song Bored in the House Bored in the House lyrics. Bored during quarantine. How to delete apps. Where'd that come from?

I don't know. Bored in the house. And I'm house. I'm in the house Board.

Oh, taiga. Bored in the house. You know how it probably sounds.

Some of those like the lockdown. Bored in the house.

Food delivery near me.

Bored in the house, man.

What to do during quarantine. Panda.com. what's that? I don't want to look up. I don't want to find something I don't want to see.

You know what? Whereas you do, that's the opposite of what I want. I always want to find things I don't want to see.

Oh, Panda.com is actually Panda. Is it?

I don't know.

Let's see.

Oh, no.

Oh, it's live. It's a live feed of the pandas. They're cute.

Khalas, man.

Okay, all right.

How many years are we going to be obsessed with pandas?

They're cute. Probably going extinct like everything else. Like tigers. They're bears and elephants.

They're just bears that are colored.

Well, yeah, and that's what makes them so cute.

Okay, all right, moving on. You had asked a question of.

Our listeners. What do you do when you're bored? And my question is, dear listener, it can't just be that you run out of a list of things. But maybe it is. I like what you said, Michael, that boredom. Part of the boredom comes from doing the same thing.

So the question or knowing what to do that makes you happy. You know, there was this self help exercise, like list, list, 30 things that you do to. To get you excited again or that gets you excited. Was it yours? But I've seen it somewhere else, everywhere.

It's not you.

I'm like, oh, I'm definitely going to do that. And then I made it clear. List of all the things that I like to do that make me happy. And then once I had that list, it was kind of like a list of doom. Because now when I was bored and I looked at that list, I'm like, no, I don't, like, I don't want to do that. I want to do that. I don't want to do that. And it became so predictable. That removed all excitement of like, you know, the unknown and getting to have, like that, I don't know, peak. Is it adrenaline? Is it serotonin? What is it when you're dopamine? Dopamine. Novelty.

Because you like, you like the unknown, adventure, spontaneity. Yeah, those are big values of yours, right? For me, I think because I'm doing so much during the week, I'm on so many calls, all of that, I look for things that I know bring me joy. I'm less looking for the unknown.

That makes total sense.

Right now, we're binging Formula one on Netflix, and I love it, thanks to my dad and brother, and I just can't wait to watch the next episode. But Michael's into discovering new and oddball indie movies.

That's true.

And so you'll want to put on this oddball indie movie. There's a new network called mubi.

Yeah.

M U B I. Yeah. And then that's the last thing I want to check.

Mubi. Guys, it's just. It's so. I mean, it's. It's so foreign for me that it's so exciting.

And they are literally. They're from all over the world.

Yeah.

Indie filmmakers curated.

Curated under many themes, and then it's curated under themes, and they're so different. Every movie is so different. It doesn't. It's not formulaic. Sometimes, you know, when you watch. When you binge, or when you watch all these shows on Netflix and HBO and then Hulu, whatever.

Movies even, there's. There's a four. There's just one formula, and you know what to expect. And. Whereas these movies are so unique and you can't appear into the director's soul rather than, you know, know what's coming up. And I like that.

Understand.

I understand.

Understand. You watch movies to get inspired and to provoke your thinking and.

Yeah.

To keep moving and get exposure to all kinds of different things.

You read books to do the same thing.

Yeah.

Yeah. And I mean, I read books, too, but. Sorry.

That's okay. Michael's taking off his sweatshirt. It's getting hot in here.

I mean, they have to know why he said sorry.

Oh, yeah.

Otherwise it will be a mystery.

Okay, let's try an exercise. Remember that series, what if Our Lives were a series?

Oh, yeah, from the episode with Maggie.

Yeah. I really like that prompt question, and I wanted to play that game.

All right, so let's get meta for a second. I told Michael about the conversation with Maggie Reyes about relationships and how she said a question couples can ask is, if your life were a TV series, what would be the premise and who would play the main characters? And then Michael said, well, let's just riff on that and record it for the podcast. And I couldn't understand, what's the intention for listeners? I was like, why? How will this add value for listeners? And his thinking was, it doesn't matter.

It's not that. It's. It's. That's. Okay. Let's consider that it's a. It's.

Let it just flow and then.

No, let's consider it's an exercise. Right. That you, dear listener, can do with your, you know, with your partner or with yourself.

With your family.

With your family. It's just a, it's just a envisioning exercise. Yeah, right.

Right.

Yeah. Maybe it can unlock some secret potential that you have that you didn't know about, you know, by using your imagination and, and, and venturing into the unknown and, and playing a little bit.

Okay. All right, let's do it.

Let's do it.

Okay. Where do you want to start?

This is like pure. Right. Brain. It's nice.

Okay.

Yeah. So where do I. Okay, so you. Let's just start where our life is a series. Right. As a TV series. And you wanted to, to break it down. You had the idea of breaking it down into two different worlds. My world and your world. And the treat. How the treatment of it would be. Right. Like you said that yours would be kind of a Shark Tank situation.

Yeah. Almost like the prophet where the guy goes into businesses with his clipboard and has these serious looking meetings and tries to turn their business around.

Okay. So it's like a real, real, what do you call it? Real tv.

Reality.

Reality tv.

Yeah. Almost like mixed with Reese Witherspoon. So it's going to be Shark Tank meets Reese Witherspoon.

Okay. And. And filmed in like kind of like the office docu.

Yeah. We'd have some outside shots too. We'd be in the environment and maybe it wouldn't be widget businesses so much. There's a lot of that on TV because it's more filmable.

Okay.

But I don't know. Yeah.

Where would you go? Where would you go? What kind of businesses would you, would you tackle? Is it small businesses? Is it big businesses? Is it solopreneurs?

I like the idea of doing really small businesses because I feel that big businesses are seen as so sexy in our society. The bigger the better. The faster the growth, the better, the more funding the better. And I believe in small and mighty and lean and agile and joyful and easeful. And I don't understand why those qualities can't be completely elevated alongside business as a way of doing business. Why can't a show instead of only prioritizing revenue, obviously you want the business to be profitable. But how do I would help these business owners find joy and ease?

Wow.

Maybe I'd be their Systems Ninja. Their Systems Ninja and the show budget.

She is Systems Ninja.

You did the Delhi Jenny Blake Ninja ad. Remember?

You didn't like it.

I Did I put it on the podcast?

The ad?

Yeah.

Oh, that was the vo.

The vo.

Not the design.

No, not the design. But there would be budget for fabulous.

She didn't like my design, guys.

My whole closet would be renewed, upgraded, replaced.

Which one? What?

My closet. I'd. There'd be a whole budget of like Ninja.

Ninja. Ninja clothes. Kill. Kill Bill style.

No, like Jennifer Aniston casual meets.

Something that might be a little more. Oh, oh, oh. Wendy on Billions. You know how she has really simple tailored.

Sure, sure.

She always looked profesh. Yeah.

So you want to be that profesh.

Looking person with some really casual as well? Like, I want some just like real comfy jeans and a white T shirt. And that's half my site visits.

Oh, like Richard Branson.

I guess so. Sure.

It's like the new. The new profesh is casual.

Absolutely. Because it's joyful and easeful. Why should we be in these super constricting high heels? I'm so over them. These little pencils that you stand on. Why?

But why. Why go with jeans and T shirts rather than, you know, just find the craziest fashion, you know? But that's fun.

Maybe I'd wear all jumpers. Every single piece. They could be of different varieties. Some are jean. You bought me a jean jumper. That's like really crazy looking. And I have a suede jumper. Yeah, I have a formal jumper. I already have. Yeah, that's gonna be it.

Jenny in the jumper.

That's right.

Jumps around.

Okay, so then while I.

Small businesses.

While I'm hopping around like a ninja.

Like a ninja bunny.

Profess. Ninja bunny who likes quiche.

Oh, my God. With the quiche, you will not let it go. All right, so while I'm. Try that quiche.

Oh, enough with the quiche. No, no, try it. I just discovered a place and Lower east side that does the best quiche ever. Or you could interview, like some quiche makers.

What I also want is big executives that are burned out from their big jobs would call me and I would help them pivot toward these really, really joyful businesses that are so much smaller. That'd be really fun. Why you thought going big was the answer. And being part of these big companies and then how delightful it can be to do something else.

I like that.

Thanks.

I like that.

That's a cool jumbo.

Okay, so while I'm. While I'm off working with these small businesses, what will you be doing? Where's your show taking place?

Well, I haven't thought about it at all actually, but I Like what you said when you started me off by saying that my world would be in like some fantasy Lord of the Rings setting.

Yeah.

On an internal quest somewhere. Yes.

There's a quest you're tracking.

That's good. I like that.

You're in some epic adventure.

Battling inner demons and maybe even outer enemies.

Yeah.

What's the quest? What do you think is the.

I'm. I don't know. I was thinking two days ago about energetic centers. Physical energetic centers and how. How amazing it would be to. To find. To, to. To find mine, actually. And I don't know where this is going, but last time, I don't know. I can't. There are some energetic centers that, that, that light me up.

What do you mean by that?

Inside of me, like a physical space that, that feels. That is just energetically potent. Like, you go there and, you know, you suddenly feel like you're really connecting with your, with your. With yourself. I'm going to give an example. You know, some people talk about climbing up a mountain or.

You know, a quiet little place and in nature or a tree house somewhere or house. Or sometimes there's. I don't know. Where was that? It was in a Robert Moore book about the magician archetype that pushes you to find little, Little, Little spots in your house where that are. That are just more energy. Fertile. Fertile. I don't know if that makes sense. Like places in your house, small spots where you feel really at ease and.

I guess such a cool notion. Where. In your house?

In your house. Yeah. Or anywhere. But. But says that you can never really know where they are. You need to ex. You need to be there physically and tune in and. And look for them. And then when you find them, they can be your. An energetic. They could represent a physical, energetic center for you to give you calm, to reinvigorate you. I don't know where this went there, where this is going, but it would be really interesting to find them all around the globe. You know, I'm pretty sure India has that and the Andes and. I mean, India does have that, right? The Ganges can be a place or.

I don't know why I'm thinking of the Ganges. I mean, the Ganges is a holy place. Ubud, Lourdes, like all of these pilgrimage sites. They're definitely a book about the guy.

That did all the walking pilgrimages.

Yeah. So pilgrimage. It'd be great to go on a pilgrimage.

Okay, so back to your show.

Journey. Right, Journey. We're talking about journeying. Yeah.

Yeah.

Pilgrimage is your Sitcom is like. It's not even a sitcom, it's a movie.

It's a movie. Yeah, it's like a four hour movie, you know, that turns into like two and a half hour for like, just.

Like Lord of the Rings. So there's the edited version, right?

The long, the longer, unedited, right? Yeah. And.

It takes you everywhere or it takes you on a quest from one place to another. It'd be even better if it's not premeditated. It's just, oh, let's go there. And then you just go and document and see what happens. And then you document things along the way till you find it and then you add it.

What's it?

I find these physical centers, they call them the. They call it the axis mundi. One good example is Jacob's ladder. So Jacob.

Sleeps on the stone and then dreams of this ladder.

That brought heaven and earth together. It's like, you know, the tree of life, etc. And after he had that dream of the ladder on the stone, he decided to build the temple in Jerusalem and just settle there. Call it the center of his. Of his world. So it's the same thing. It's the same. It's like. Oh, it's like Golgotha for Christianity, for instance, you know, like where Jesus was crucified. So that spiritual center is where is a physical center of where the world starts for the Jews. For Christians, I know the Kaaba is the same for.

So what physical center would that be for you? And how can you find it? And how can you create your. So that you can create your own physical universe starting from there? And I know there are many energetic places all around the world. It would be very fascinating to find them for myself in a series. But that would be the main question and the ultimate question for me would be, where can I. Where would be my energetic center so I can start my. My universe? Does that make sense?

Yeah. When you say start your universe, what do you mean by that?

Like, build your world. Where can you build your world from? I mean, Harlem sounds like it, but I'm pretty sure there's. There's an even more intricate answer.

I like it. Great show.

Show.

Well, yeah.

Oh, that was the prompt.

Well, it was just so epic. That's why I stopped there. Like explore different places in the world that you feel this magic.

Yeah.

Energy.

Yes.

Where you. What was the thing, how you said it from the magician book in your house? That's. I find that fascinating. Even in your own home. Energetic centers.

Yeah. Energetic centers.

Yeah.

Energetic Spots, let's call them energetic spots.

Where you can start your universe. I mean, that's so epic. I didn't know where to take it from there.

I guess they're energetic spots and then there's an energetic center where you can. Where you, you know, split it in north, south, east, west. And then that's where like your whole world starts from.

I've had spiritual recharging centers where the minute I land and breathe the air, I feel immediately recharged. And then for me, New York has always been that beacon since I was little. I first smelled that hot burst of subway air when I was nine and I crave it. And every time to this day, some people walk by Ryder's echoing that. Sometimes people walk by the subway and they think, oh, this air is so disgusting, let me get off the grate. And I'm like, give me. It just smells like energy to me. And I plug in here and I know that anything is possible.

Yeah.

And not just from a cliche. I feel it, I feel it. I experience it with relationships. I know you, I know Dori, Petra, my New York, you know, and New York City angel. Like all these people are from these really serendipitous meetings.

You know, I definitely felt that in 2014 when I came here, it was so electric that I couldn't stay away. You know, everything around me was so electric. Whereas some people would come into New York, they're like, oh, it's too much, I can't take it. And it was like a moth to a flame.

I also think there's such a different tourist mode in New York than when you live here. You can really find a lot of peace and quiet in your own home and. And then go out for the excitement. Not right now. That's kind of changing. Or changed.

Yeah.

Cuz like, I don't even know when I'm going to want to take the subway again. I was thinking about that.

That's sad. You know, I have a friend, Alex Robert, had, did her thesis about being a citizen of nowhere.

That being said, I wonder if for her its home is where the heart is. You know, her center is always herself. So wherever she goes around, around in the physical world, she is her own center. And that's very interesting.

But then I guess it's a different kind of center. It's not a physical center unless you just negate the physical center and decide that your body is the physical center and take it from there.

Or it's both. And I'm sure it changes too. There are a Lot of conversations now about people feeling over New York City. Once they've been sheltering in place, they realize, I don't want to be here anymore. I just want to be in nature. I don't want to take all these precautions. Live in a sardine can building.

Yeah. Some people live out of their car. They go, they roam around like nomads. I have a friend who wanted to go from Beirut to South Africa on his bike. Wow. I think he did it a couple of times. You want to go Euro tripping Johnny?

You can take that podcast they take out mic with you as long as we have an Internet connection.

Oh, I just get tired thinking about it.

What?

Eurotripping? I like Petra's idea that spends one month in each country, but then you 12 countries.

But that's what I'm saying. When you have a plan again.

I know. I'm just saying that I love that because my favorite thing to do in any city I travel is just wake up and go to a cafe and get a cup of coffee and read. And I love getting to know the people at those places. And that's my favorite way to travel. And maybe because of doing keynote speaking and being just bouncing around so much, it just doesn't. It just doesn't feel restful at all to be packing, unpacking every two days.

That bears the question, what if that wasn't the plan? What if the plan was to just go and then.

Right. However long.

However long. If you don't want to stay, you don't want to stay and you don't give yourself a deadline. And when you're ready to move, you move.

That sounds fun for you, Honestly.

Yeah.

I would have to try. I would really have to try. I'm sure it could end up fun. Maybe it would end up being the best trip of my life.

You know why? Because you end up focusing on your online community too, which you are already doing. I know New York is.

A very great place for you.

And you've got a lot of friends.

I still feel charged by that. It feels exhausting. It doesn't energize me, but for you, it's just so energizing. Every day would be more exciting than the one before.

Of course. Yeah.

And for me, every day feels more tiring. But that's how we are. You're even so much more of a social creature on a day to day like when we're in Beirut.

Yeah.

You love doing the bouncing around everywhere and. And I loved reading in that apartment that we had the Airbnb and just being on the terrace and reading in the treetops.

But. But there are no rules to it. You know, maybe we end up somewhere in. I don't know, in. In the country, somewhere where that's all we do.

I mean, I'm. I'm down to try anything at a certain extent, but if I'm just being truly honest and saying, does it spark joy in my heart? Yeah. No, not the same way it would for you, but I get. I feel like it's a should. I feel like I should be that. Hell, yes. Let's go on an epic adventure, and we'll stay anywhere, any amount of time. And I feel like I should be into that, that a cool person would say yes. Like, the other day, I was on a zoom call with my friends.

Somebody said.

Somebody said that they feel that they should. Should like hiking, but they just don't. And it made me laugh so hard because how many people might have a partner that loves hiking? Hiking with a capital H. It's so wonderful. And then how freeing is it to just admit, like, no, I don't enjoy. You know, if that's you, whatever your version of that is, I truly feel.

That hiking would be amazing for everyone if they actually got to encounter the right experience of hiking. Does that make sense? Like, being in nature is so grounding for us as human beings. And, you know, maybe you'd ask someone who's lived in New York their whole life and who's been. Who's been living in concrete all around. All around, and his first instinct would be, hell, no, I don't want to. I don't want to, like, go on a hike or be around nature. But then slowly but surely, they'd understand why. Because they build a relationship with nature.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

The parallel I can make here is that I can't stand laying out at the beach. Like, I hate it.

The sun drains me.

I just.

And there's sand up your thing, you know?

I know. I get so hot. I'm so sweaty. I'm like, you're just in a swimsuit, like, baking on the sand.

Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, I think if I had an umbrella and I'm reading a good book and I'm in my folding chair. But what I will say, the reason I brought that example is that if I'm sitting on somebody's front porch and this one of my future self visualizations from coach training way back 2008 was, I'm sitting on a front porch and I'm looking at the ocean, and I have a friend who Lives in Southern California where that is the case. She's in Newport. She's literally like, her back.

We zoomed with her.

Yeah. Her back. Finesse. Her back. Sliding door. Looks out onto the ocean.

Yeah, yeah.

And there is something so beautiful and so calming and so awe inspiring because she sheltered. And it's aligning. Yeah. It does align one's spirit to look at a body of water.

Of course.

Even the Hudson River. I'm always happy when I would go to the grass, the real grass, and. And watch the river. It's true. And then maybe people just need to find their way. Like, if I didn't have an umbrella and I'm just laying on the hot sand, forget about it.

You know, Louis CK made a. Made a joke about humans and why. Why we. We're aliens. Like, we don't necessarily belong on Earth because we want to build these cubes and sit in them rather than.

That's true.

You know, it's like, oh, it's raining great. Oh, here comes the water. Oh, it's snowing. Ah, take it all in. Here comes the sun.

Live in a yurt.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Be. Be at one with nature.

And then.

Has this ever happened to you where. Where you're in nature and you're completely like, maybe not day one, day two, but like day four, day five, Your instincts kick in. You start, you know, knowing what the time is just by looking at the sun. You know, you feel at one with the. With the dirt and the plants and everything, and you're not afraid anymore, and you really feel like you belong. I just think we haven't had enough time to spend in nature to get to know it, and that's why we're afraid of it.

Even Seinfeld, in his recent standup, which we thought was okay, but he was joking about how we cram ourselves into these cities.

Yeah.

Why do we do that? He's like, you get the second year in an airplane, and you see overhead how much vast land surrounds these cities. And then we just want to cram ourselves together. But that's where all the innovation happens. When you're so densely packed, is it.

Because it's been socially engineered so that it's, like, as productive as possible? Maybe by, like, city planners.

I mean.

Maybe it's like cities are farms for production.

Okay, let me think about that for a second. But there's something inherently joyful for me, being smashed on a subway, of course, the people watching is fascinating. And it's fascinating. Fascinating as looking at the ocean is looking at a Sea of people and people watching.

As long as you're excited being in the subway, you know, I mean, now.

With all the germs.

Yeah.

And I'm not even a German.

Forget the germs. But I have you. How many people do you see smiling in the subway? I definitely do. I like. I really enjoy.

Because you probably, like, make eye contact and give them a wink and a nod.

Yes, of course. Of course.

Yeah. Which I do, too. I love. I love bringing joy if I can. Outside.

Sure.

So do I think cities are engineered by the government for productivity on some level. But I also think that people. It's kind of fun to be packed in and. And when people used to live in community, maybe it wasn't so packed, but it certainly wasn't as isolated as the suburbs.

You know, I gotta tell you, every time I come to New York, at least that's how it started.

I mean, Beirut is so tightly packed.

Yeah. But every time I come. I came to New York, for instance, I lost at least 20 pounds because of all the walking and all the schlepping and all of the, you know.

Is it. Is that what it is? And, like, you know, you don't eat and. Because you got to be on the go, and you don't have time to digest your food, so you just end up drinking smoothies all day.

Well, that's you. That's you as well.

I mean, it's also New York. Right. It's people. You know, look at Jerry Saltz with his Big Gulp Coffee Coffee jug to be able to.

I think I'm more prone to keep his energy fat and happy in New York because I'd be going out to restaurants all the time and having champagne.

Michael makes fun of me that I like champagne. It's fun. It's delightful. But he thinks it's so stupid because in Beirut, and he got over it when he was 14 because champagne was, like, such a posturing.

Yeah. I think it's just a type of product that, you know, gives status to one. To someone, and then it's engineered that way so that every time you see this champagne flute, you're like, oh, there's champagne around. And I don't know if it's.

What if it's that the little micro.

Did you like. Do you like the bubbles? Like, we have a friend that's obsessed with champagne.

You know?

Yeah. Yeah. But what if the little micro bubbles are just so joyful that, you know, every sip.

Are they so joyful that they're the most important thing in your life?

You know, it's so serious. It's so serious. What are the flavor profiles?

You know, you want to celebrate, you go eat the falafel sometimes. And you enjoy the falafel. Sure.

Or Princess street pizza.

Yeah, yeah.

But I mean, on a Sunday with some fresh squeezed OJ and champagne.

Sure.

It's so delightful.

I'd rather not have it.

I know.

Yeah.

He give me. You give me my. Your mimosas.

Yeah, I'd rather not have it, but I'm saying if. What would I like to get? I'd like to get drunk on tequila.

Mezcal. No, you want to have it.

Tequila. Tequila. Like. Like Cuervo tequila. You go insane practically or you chill. But tequila just gets. Gets your. Your passion going, you know? I don't know what champagne does.

It just gives you a slight smile. Like I'm drinking champagne.

Yeah, it gives you a bourgeois smile.

There it is. Gives you a smug. A smug, self satisfied Sunday smile.

You're right. What a great glorious Sunday when I first met Michael.

Hey, you're hitting the red. The poor listener's ears.

Let me say it again. What a great glorious Sunday when I first met Michael.

Art fairs are this big thing. I had no idea. The art world, capital T, capital A, capital W. And in the art world, all the hoi polloi gather at these big warehouses to look at contemporary art and some old art as well, whatever you call that. Anyway, of course, these are like really rich people, but they get in, in the VIP days before it opens to the masses.

And.

And of course I'm going to get a bottle of champagne and walk around. And it's absurdly expensive. I don't even remember how much I paid. But I'm like, I'm just going to play the part.

It's the ritual. It's the ritual of playing the part. But. But I always wonder if it's. If it's more the ritual than the actual drink.

You know what, Maybe it's like diamonds that until the 50s, when they introduced the advertising slogan diamonds are forever, sure, no one gave a shit about diamonds. They were not a precious stone. And then once they introduced Diamonds are forever as this engagement token of love and appreciation.

Right.

So maybe champagne is. We've been.

It's a symbol.

Maybe we've been socially engineered.

Yeah. Of success.

Yes. And celebration.

Yeah, sure.

So. But therefore, nonetheless, maybe it's like champagne placebo effect, but when I drink it, I feel celebratory.

Exactly. That's exactly what I'm saying.

Okay. Well, it works. And Then it works.

I wonder if there are like so many other symbols that you can not replace that with. But like, you know what? I could give you a trophy. Could just get a trophy and give it to you.

Here's the thing. The first time I tasted beer, the first time I tasted beer.

On your shoulders, you'll feel successful.

I thought beer was horrible. The first time I tasted coffee.

I don't like beer.

First time I tasted coffee, I thought it was horrible. Those are things that some. I don't even drink a lot of beer. But coffee now is just this like most beautiful, delicious morning elixir. Coffee takes over your brain to make.

It's a drug. It hijacks you.

And caffeine by Michael Pollan, the audiobook, it just straight up talks about how caffeine has engineered humanity to support and grow more caffeine, not the other way around. I think that's true. But I mean, I came around on the taste of coffee. I don't know if champagne was the same way, but nonetheless, it's a productivity drug.

That's what it is.

Yeah. Michael so many times he would have half a cup of coffee and look at me and he's like, I'm having a bad drip.

So, so, so what happened? I didn't drink coffee. I only. I only kept coffee as, you know, a secret weapon for that. You know, one night a year when I have a deadline and I really need to get jittery and ride the. Ride the jitters and.

Yeah. Ride the project until the morning and hand it in. So that was my.

Because you like to work very last minute as well. I'm just putting in a side note.

No, I'm just wondering about that.

Oh yeah, because you love the last minute adrenaline surge.

Sure, sure, I like that adrenaline surge. But I also use as. Used it as a. Just as a weapon of like last. Last resort kind of a thing. And then Jenny comes along and she's like, oh, smell those beans and try those ones. And this is from Cambodia. And this is from like Colombia. And this is from God knows where, Brazil. And then. And then slowly but surely having it on the daily. Now I really want the coffee in the morning. I like it. I like it. It's a drug. It's a trick. That's what it is. Come on, all of you guys. Don't tell. Like, you gotta admit it. Gotta admit it.

Well, what do you like about it now that maybe you didn't like before?

Well, it's like drinking a Red Bull.

Yeah, yeah.

But now because I'VE had so many. I can, I can know when it's better than, you know, I enjoy it at a specific temperature. And you know, the smell. It's a ritual again. It's a habit. And it's. My nose got excited to smell coffee in the morning and, and, and have it and, and be on a crazy kick for like four hours, five hours in the morning. That jump starts. My brain, gets me to read faster.

I just want to put a sidebar. Speaking of your nose and the quiche to go full, full circle. Did you see the quiche pun?

What?

To go full circle.

I didn't get it.

A quiche. It's a circle.

Oh, it's a far fetched. Far fetched.

So to go full circle. I, I, I said today to Michael, we were, we were in fact making a quiche. And I said, I wish I could just say, alexa, how much time is left on our oven? And Michael said, it's so obvious. You just use your nose. And he's like, there's four minutes left. He just sniffed the air. There's four minutes left. And sure enough, I got up and went to check. And how many minutes were there?

Two minutes.

Two minutes. So he was two minutes off. And I said, he says that like it's so obvious. Just use your nose.

Obviously, you just got to trust your senses more. That's all I'm saying, you know?

Well, what if I don't have crazy, brilliant spidey senses like you do?

Just focus on your nose in the beginning. You won't. You won't.

But what if your gift is your nose and your taste?

You wouldn't be able to know shit from shy nose. I love that expression. But then slowly but surely, you'll get there, because will I though?

Or do you have a unique talent that you don't realize that you think it is?

No, no.

Because your flavor profile is so sophisticated.

I don't think so.

The way you cook, your visual. No map of how you set up food and plate food even though you're not a chef.

Let me give you an example.

So I live in a restaurant, so.

So I used to draw a lot, but I didn't, I wasn't that good with volumes and, and color, even in the beginning. But, you know, imagine eight years of you trying to decipher how every color is made with, with what combinations and how you'd mix it and how it looks in, under a blue sky or under a yellow bulb. And slowly but surely, your eye for color develops over years and years and years. And now, you know, I really do enjoy looking at the world through shapes, colors, form, light, volume. When I look at people, I enjoy looking at their anatomy. Right. Because that's what I've done my whole life. And, you know, remember I complimented your forearms as, like, one of the first things that I've. That I've.

That's true. No one had ever.

One of the first compliments I gave Jenny was, oh, my God, your forearms are so beautiful.

I was doing lots of handstands at that time.

Yeah, yeah, but.

Charangas.

But. But it's just a question of, you know, training my eye to recognize things and view patterns in a specific way and use my sense of vision and to decipher the world around me. And I'm pretty sure that my vision is more trained than.

My nose.

Makes sense. Yeah, but, I mean, you've seen me try to do simple math. It's just not a natural talent. Like, I could train. I could train, but it doesn't come naturally to me. Like systems.

I'm sure there's, like, nature and nurture, they both play. Play their part. But I also wonder about blockages that one might have. I would like to present a sincere apology to one of my professors back in this program called the art department, dad Marshall Vandruff. And I was terrified about one point perspective. And I was, I guess, 25 at the time, 26. And I was telling him, like, I don't think I can do it. This is impossible. I just can't conceive it. He's like, maybe you have a blockage in your hand that makes you think that it's tougher than it is. And of course, at the time my ego came in and. And like, oh, this guy thinks I'm insane. This guy thinks I have a blockage. But I didn't even know what that meant back then. Have a block in your mind about your capacities.

Gay Hendricks calls it your upper limit problem.

Yeah.

Which is slightly different than, I think, what you're saying. But the upper limit problem is that we reach these invisible barriers of success where we think we're not possibly cut out for more or we can't achieve that next level. Anytime you feel a plateau in your life, your income, your success, you might be hitting an upper limit. So that guy, Formula one guy, that it's possible he had a ULP around, right? Reaching the podium.

Yes, yes, yes.

Maybe on the inside, he didn't feel he was good enough.

He was worthy to do it. Or. Yeah, it's like Verstappen Verstappen.

There's no Verstappen.

Verstappen. The egomaniac.

Verstappen.

Narcissistic, insane. Verstappen.

Apologizing to him.

He's got too much drive, you know? Got it, got it.

I got it, I got it.

Yeah.

As he takes a sip of coffee.

I like it room temperature, by the way.

Yeah. I can't stand that lukewarm, tepid coffee.

Tap it. Why does that.

I want it piping hot.

Why? You can't taste it. Yes, you can, can you?

It's so fresh like that. And the smell.

And it's like you burn your tongue.

No, one degree short of burning my tongue.

You and what's his name, Larry David would make. Would be very good friends.

Why? Oh, yeah, yeah. The whole season. That's true.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You could stick your nose in your coffee.

Yeah, I'd enjoy. I'd enjoy. What's the. The other guy's name? Mocha Joe's Coffee. Way more than Larry's coffee.

Mocha Joe.

Mocha Joe.

Oh, my gosh.

He's got the beans.

That's right.

He hasn't got the beans. Actually, he doesn't.

Larry got the beans.

Poor Mocha Joe.

I know. The spite store.

I can't. It can't be a good thing. I don't believe in spite stores. It's really bad karma.

It's like, why would you even take the time to do that much energy? Are you even into coffee anyways?

I think he is really into coffee, though. I think he seemed quite joyful. Managing latte. Larry's.

Hey. Okay, that's a fun exercise. What kind of store would you open?

Oh, my gosh. Right.

Shout out to Katherine Hayden, who I know would open a stationery store with pencils.

Okay.

Yeah.

What about you?

What about me? You know, I had a friend when I was in elementary school. Her dad worked at Office Depot, and to me, she was.

The princess of Office Depot. You know, she always had office supplies. Her basement was full of office supplies, and she would sometimes give me some for free. And I was in heaven with all those office supplies.

She used to bribe a lot of us with all the supplies. But if I could open a store.

Oh, my God, I know what I would.

You know, I do like coffee shops, I have to say. I really do. And I'd have really cool mugs, dinery mugs, cool colors.

Okay, you know what? I'm going to start with this store, but I'm sure I could. I would like to open many Other ones, I would open a crepe store.

Oh, yeah. Okay.

I make the best crepes in town.

Wow.

Cool.

I like it. You know, I've always loved bookstore cafes that are combined. So there's a bookstore and half of the shop. There used to be one in Palo Alto called Printers, Inc. And I loved it. My dad and I used to go, and what did we have?

What?

Quiche.

That's one thing. It's planted in your, like, way deep in your brain.

Like, quiche is a. Is a happy thing that you've had with your dad. And it's like.

And my mom.

I've probably had many quiche Pavlovian practice.

Who doesn't like quiche? There's pie crust and there's eggs and sometimes broccoli. And who likes broccoli anyways?

You have to be definitely, like, brainwashed to like broccoli.

And then you have a slice of quiche and a little side salad and a latte, and then you pop next door and browse books. I mean, that's heavenly.

That's nice.

But they, unfortunately are not doing too well. Like McNally Jackson, downtown Manhattan. I used to live right around the corner, and that was my happy place. Yeah, Just go have some coconut cookie Dilly Bob with a nice coffee, and then browse books. And if ever I was sad, I just took myself to McNally.

So maybe I'd offer that gift back to the world somehow.

I would like to have a manoushe store next to a crepe store.

Can you explain to the listeners what manoushe is?

It's like a Lebanese pizza, I guess.

It's very unique. It's a thin slice of something. What is it? Not even though. And it has thyme spices baked on top of it.

Thyme meats.

It's almost like a crepe thinness. It's not pepper pizza thickness.

Yeah. And there. There's like a bunch of chains that opened later that revolutionized it, you know, started added, adding halloumi with bacon. Just. Just all of these traditional Lebanese mixes.

Or there's a menuche place in New York, and I get the one that has avocado. And Michael looks at me like, what are you doing? But you know what? Avocado.

But it makes sense now.

Like, so good.

Yeah, yeah. In the beginning, I just. I thought it was so. Such a weird American thing to do. Just like, why would you add avocado?

We're so obsessed with avocado.

You are absolutely, definitely, definitely are obsessed with avocado. And it's still going on, you know, like the. The quinoa came and went. The. What else? What else is there?

Acai.

Acai still around.

I mean, I mean, it's around.

Shout out to the BJJT JJJ crew that only eats acai practically.

You know, it says Jiu Jitsu. Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.

Yeah. Yeah.

Bjj.

You guys.

Can'T wrestle with the dummy.

You know, he made a dummy, you guys. He made a dummy.

Stuffed with clothes to try to wrestle him.

Yeah, and I did. I did for a while. But then, you know, you miss. You miss your teammates and. And you know, there's something about wrestling other people. It's just so real anyway. But yeah, so a manushe store with a crap place right next to one.

Another sounds really nice.

And an arcade.

Wow, you got so happy. You got so happy when you said that. And then I think you would also add that little ice cream shop that you like in Beirut. Yeah, some corner ice cream shop because you're always getting those.

I like that. You know what a triangle food place and an arcade in the middle.

Wow.

Right?

Yeah, sounds great. Yeah, sounds very you.

Yeah.

All right. And I have a bookstore cafe with some really cool office supplies.

Right.

Champ.

Jenny? Champ Jenny.

Well, it kind of fits the theme of our TV shows as well.

Yeah.

Here's this like adventure, questing excitement.

It'd be very interesting to actually. I mean it already happens in Lower east side. There's a place called Enter the Void. It's a VR arcade, I guess. Yeah, it's a VR arcade. But it'd be so nice to just enter all that world of crazy experimental alternate reality business.

I don't even like the word business. Just research center.

That is hilarious. What made you just great?

Because then you have to like, you have to find clients and try to sell it to them and balance do all that like extra stuff that has nothing to do with the actual passion.

Oh my God.

You know. Yeah.

You know, but a good business.

You know, Andy Warhol says like the best art is business or something.

He says art is business. Businesses are.

Businesses are. Yeah, it is. It is an art. But you need to be an artist, a business artist to enjoy it. You know, like versus something else.

Quite you. You can't be bothered. The reason you can't be bothered with the business business is it's too similar day in and day out. And.

And it gets me unfocused from creation. Creation.

Like immersion, I think immersion, contemplation and creation. Those are your talents and the Things you love to do. Immerse yourself in new and original content.

Yes.

Contemplate. And it could be books, movies. Contemplate that content.

Immerse, contemplate, create.

Yeah. Wow. Boom. Shazam.

Here's my yellow. Send the pitch to Penguin.

Penguin, are you listening?

Penguin, are you here?

Penguin?

Yella. We'll get a ghostwriter to figure it out.

No. Then there's a ghost in the book. That's how I feel about ghostwriter.

Listen, I think if you're going to have a co writer, put their name.

On the COVID Look, I'll put his name.

I know, but this is my rant now. I took over when you said ghostwriter.

Yeah. No, no, but what was it? Contemplate.

Immersion. Contemplation.

Absolutely. And that's it. That's all I want to do. Immerse, contemplate, create. But create the spark and then have the. I want to be responsible of the spark. I don't want to be responsible of.

The wood and, you know, maintaining the fire and doing all. I want to provide the, like, electric. The lightning bolt. And then, you know.

That's a good analogy. And the funny thing is, when I was in coach training, they asked us to pick a metaphor.

Lightning bolt provider mine.

I am the lightning bolt that wakes people up. That was my metaphor. So I like. But yours is so different.

Yeah, it's cool.

You want to be a lightning bolt, too.

I guess so.

You know. Okay. I love how you said you want to provide the spark. You don't want to do the kindling.

I want to provide the spark.

Here's what I like. Here's what I like about business is it's almost like coding, which I love, even though I'm not a. Haven't invested too much more time in it since I was learning to code websites. But what I love with coding is if you have an error in the code, it's obvious the page just doesn't work. It's not doing what you want it to do.

It's like formula.

And this is the thing in business. Well, not even a formula, but there is a creative process. Oh, yeah. There's a creative process where if you get the right structures and systems in place, you actually create such total and utter freedom and creativity and joy and connection. But it comes from that kindling. The structure of the branch, of the. Not branches, the wood logs. And then if it creates a big, beautiful fire, you know, you got the wood logs just right. And then you're, like, tweaking. You know, the people who watch a Fire. And they put the log in just exactly the right place.

You like to see it through. You like to see. See it through.

Yeah. And I like to keep the fire burning. It's funny, in life after college, one of my values I put was clean burning fire. But I like to keep the fire burning consistently so that I want to throw different.

Different stuff at the fire and see what happens.

Yeah, like clean burning fire. Sure. But with a lot of experimentation.

You'd rather go start a hundred different fires. I'm gonna have a bonfire.

Hey.

I'm gonna have people around it, that's you all listening. And then. And my colleagues, friends, crew, we're gonna have this epic bonfire. And you always know where to find it.

You're running the bonfire Leave.

Yeah. You're off running.

Yeah, yeah.

Creating as many guys you can have.

A bonfire here by and then just go somewhere.

And then yours is. Did you know you can create a bonfire from an Oreo?

Right, right.

And then like whatever the next thing is.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just, just. Yes, I like to.

You would never create the same bonfire twice.

Exactly.

You'd never have the same spark.

No, no.

Twice.

No. It'd be like old news already. Maybe I'd like to convince myself that I could. It's like, oh, once I have the system for the perfect bonfire, I can reproduce it everywhere, but it just doesn't work for me.

Yeah, you won't do it.

I've tried. Like, I've. I've lied to myself, thinking that I can, or I thought I could, but it just doesn't work for me.

It must be nice to admit that.

What, like.

Or do you think discover it or do you think that's the block? Do you think that's what your professor said? I'm just curious because you brought up that professor, this notion that I can't keep a bonfire.

Or maybe, I don't know, it's just because I've tried not to keep the bonfire. But I don't know, I've gotten into situations where at some point I'm like. And I'm gone, you know?

Yeah. I think there's a difference between an inner block that has suffering around it versus an inner knowing, like straight up that drains me.

Or sometimes the situation just doesn't allow for you to. To move forward. Maybe it's just something that stops your flow or. Okay, so I had this idea of. Of a hanger. Right. I've told you about this before.

Oh, yeah.

Mano Giragosian master artist has a big ass hanger. In Beirut that he treats as a museum, but also his studio. I would love to have a hanger like that and having that kind of large space, I'd be able to subdivide it into different types of art that I want to make and just go through it.

Like a machine from one spot to the other, to the other to the other, and just be able to produce things on and on and on with the team. And I started thinking about that, but then, you know, the Lebanese revolution happened. The COVID happened.

I think it's also.

I switched to memes somehow, you know, like, so many things happen, and then I, like, let go of that thing.

Running a big physical space like that. Mano and his wife are both bonfire builders. The same thing, day after day. Building the business, creating the structure, balancing the book, art as a business.

But. But that's what I'm saying about getting. Having a team. No, having a team to be able to do that. But. But, yeah, that. That goes back to what. What I was saying about finding a physical center. You know what I mean?

That's true.

That could be a physical center, for example, like a big space to be able to have massive canvases and experiment with different types of painting and paint and.

Just, like, different art modalities and be able to have a place where art can be discussed and developed and ideas can be delegated to different teams. And I would gladly figure out a way to keep showing up and find the creative way to, you know, keep. Keep creating these bonfires in that space. And that would be a great center.

Kind of to use formula one in a way that business model would work for you. Where there's a funder.

Yeah.

And there's a team. And you're the driver.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You just show up and drive fast cars.

Right. I just want to drive fast cars making paintings or making art. But. But having everything, you know, discussed and structured, and you have someone in your.

Ear saying, box car.

Yeah, yeah. Someone in my ear saying, overtake, saying, canvases have been stretched.

Color palettes ready. Brushes, you know, brushes are clean. Brushes are clean. On station one.

Coffee is lukewarm.

Yeah, we're ready for you. Smoothies ready. Smoothie is ready, man.

Ushe is waiting.

Yeah.

Wow.

What a dream. You know, come in, grab my menushe, drink my coffee, drink my smoothie, know where I'm. But then. But then another question arises, that once I have that system and know what makes me happy, am I gonna hop on it?

No. No.

It's like, I look at this, I Look at this hanger. I'm like, okay, figured it out. Bye. Not gonna make. It's like, what? Exactly.

Exactly. I think that's exactly. You would build the vision and then, and then the next, like, artist would come in to implement, because that would.

Be a bad idea anyway. You know, maybe, maybe I'd take it for a run or two and then bring in other artists and show them the ropes and.

Maybe, or, or I could figure out a way to, to have breaks and, and know that it would run in a commercial way or in a business way, regardless of me being there or not. You know, there's some filmmakers that take. Or artists that takes six or seven years to put out a series, but it would be mature, it would be very targeted. They would know exactly what they're saying. Yeah. Who knows?

Yeah. Who knows? Well, this has been very fun.

Yeah, we can keep it going, split it in many parts since it's more exciting than boredom.

Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the Pivot podcast. Make sure you don't miss an episode or my insider tips and templates by signing up for Pivot List, a curated twice monthly newsletter where I share the inside scoop on what I'm reading, watching, listening to, and the latest tools I'm geeking out on. Sign up@pivotmethod.com pivotlist get show notes from this episode and @pivotmethod.com podcast and connect with me on Twitter @jennyblake.

Remember, build first, then your courage will follow. Hasn't it always.