227: 🎁 The Best Gifting Strategies and Biggest Mistakes with John Ruhlin

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I wish I would have emphasized more that yeah, these are all unique ideas, but they collectively fit together and I should have given more examples of that because I think people are like, I did giftology and I'll push back on them. I'm like, well, tell me the recipe Fox. And they're like, well, they kind of sheepishly are like, well, we did giftology. Ish. And I'm like, guys, it's better almost to not do it at all than to do it half baked.

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Welcome back, Free Timers. I am jumping for joy over here because I have longtime friend John Rulin here on the pod. Hopefully you all know about John by now because I'm always singing his praises. I've talked about his book in Free Time and on many previous episodes. He is the founder and author of Giftology, the Art and Science of Using Gifts to Cut through the Noise, Increase Referrals, and Strengthen Retention. He's the world's leading authority in maximizing customer loyalty through radical generosity. I first met John in Times Square with Dorie Clark. Thanks again, dc. I always say she's an angel of the pod. And so are you, John, because you and your newsletter live in my head every day. I resonate so much with your work and even though we don't talk every day, I'm hanging out with you all the time. So glad to be here live. Welcome to the show.

Thanks for having me, Jenny. You're too, too kind.

Well, I just love your mission. Not just of bringing greater generosity to the world, but really teaching business owners how to systematize it. We were just talking about will G and unreasonable hospitality before we hit record. It's one thing to say you want to surprise and delight people, but you actually create the systems to do that. You actually make it happen and you help other people make it Happen.

Yeah, I mean, we get to play Santa Claus, our giftologists play Santa Claus. I get to talk about it. They actually do it, but with one thing to talk about, it's another thing to execute on for sure.

Ever since I read giftology, I've had in the back of my mind that, all right, giving a branded swag, that's not a gift, that's swag. And if anything, some people think of it as garbage. And I've been on the receiving end of a lot of it. I've always wanted to ask you, is there ever a time for branded swag swag however you say it, or would you really say, listen, no, just stop wasting time, money and materials and go with a quality gift instead.

To say never to anything is probably not a good idea, right? There's always anomalies, there's always one offs. But I think that most of our clients are small to mid sized companies that have limited budgets. And the reason most people are doing swag is they want to grow their business. Like, they want somebody to talk about them, they want to market themselves, they want to brand themselves. You're not doing gifting just for fun. Typically there's an outcome that you're trying to drive towards, whether that's awareness or loyalty or referrals. Like, you're not just doing it just for kicks and giggles. What I think is that people think they're doing branding and marketing at the highest level when they do swag. Like, oh, we're going to do this Patagonia vest for a hundred bucks. Meanwhile, you'd never do that same thing to deepen a relationship with a best friend. Like, you'd never go to your best friend's wedding. And like on the Tiffany's V, compliments of UBS or compliments of Ernst and Young, or like, it'd be cheeseball. And so what I think that people have confused is what a gift is, which is all about the recipient and what swag or trinkets or chachkis are marketing. I think if you have a limited amount of resources, whether that's 2 grand or 20 grand or $2 million to brand yourself to me, there's way more leverage in sending what we would call a heart bomb or an artifact or an heirloom versus sending out what you think is cool swag, the other person that's receiving it. Oftentimes, even if it is cool swag, it's still swag. Nobody's crying and like their soul isn't moved because you gave them some jacket or hat or vest or I don't care how nice it is, if it has a logo on it, it goes into a very different category.

That's so true. I'm cracking up. Their soul isn't moved. It's so true. Every now and then someone will send a mug. I don't mind that. Although I don't have room for more mugs. What cracks me up, nobody does. Right? When somebody sends a T shirt with their company name and it's so huge on the T shirt and I'm thinking to myself, you basically want me to be a billboard for your business. Like, I just don't understand. It's not a gift at all. That's like free advertising for you.

It's manipulation.

Yeah.

The reason people either consciously or subconsciously feel gross about it is you're usually sending it to your clients, your suppliers, your partners, the people that are your most that allow you. Even if you're a solopreneur, you have key relationships that allow you to have a company. And that could be investors, could be like advisors or suppliers, whatever. You're basically taking your most valuable resource, your human to human relationships, and you're trying to turn them into unpaid ambassadors for the brand in a icky, gross way, like kind of a force manipulate. Here's a gift, but it's really marketing. Somebody's like, oh my gosh, like this is amazing. Like they can read between the lines and give something with a logo on it. And people sometimes will get smart. They'll do tone on tone or they'll do it small. But it's still. You would never do that to a close friend for their wedding or their birthday. Why would you do that with your most valuable resource, these humans? I don't think most people realize what they're communicating to their relationships, which is really, they don't matter. And that's not a great way to grow your company.

You mentioned the idea of a heart bomb. And I can think I know what you mean because I feel that I've been on the receiving end of a few giftology heart bombs. But can you first define it and then I'll share my story?

When you think of a gift in the corporate world, do you think of like a Harriet David basket or a case of wine or all these different things? And to me like, that just feels the least you could do. It's very mediocre, it's very transactional. And when I think about the relationships I really care about, whether that's personally or professionally. If you do something really, really well physically, like Most people aren't taking their clients out to the Motel 6 and McDonald's experientially. But most people are going to Four Seasons or they're going to 1111 Madison. They're going to the Super Bowl. Like, people drop thousands or tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions on their most valuable relationships experientially. And then physically, it's like, hey, here's a gift card to Amazon for 100 bucks. It's like, one was 10 grand and one is a hundred dollars. It feels very like, check the box. Ish. To me, a hard bomb means, like, you give something to somebody and they're moved emotionally, spiritually. When I talk about the soul, like, that sounds boo boo, but we all know when somebody does something for us that moves us to tears. And it's not always about the dollar amount invested. It's like, wow, this person really knows about me, cares about me, sees me, really values who I am. Not just the revenue that's passing back and forth. Like, that's a rare heart bomb. Is analogous with an artifact with, you know, or an heirloom. It's just a fun way to say, like, no, we're not talking about $100 chick fil, a gift card here. We're talking about how do you give something to somebody that maybe five or 10, 15 years from now, they're passing it down to their kids or their grandkids, like the one. The gift that we did for Will and I had another client that is worth nine figures that we sent it to. He gave it to his wife is one of these $2,000 artifact mugs. And their house got broken into and they have jewelry, and they're like, worth a lot of money. The first thing that his wife went and did was to go check in the kitchen because it got ransacked to see if the mug was broken out of all the things, not the million dollar jewelry, she went to go check on the mug. Why? Because that had the most meaning and story woven into it. So it's not the cost, it's the thoughtfulness, it's the creativity, it's the meaning, it's the story that's attached to it. So when we talk about a heart bomb, we're talking about giving something to somebody that if their house was on fire, they might be one of the five things that they grabbed.

And tell us about these mugs in particular. What made this mug so special.

We work with an artist, and the clay itself is probably worth 40 or 50 bucks. It's what makes it special is this artist takes six questions. And the same six questions. Whether somebody's a billionaire or somebody who makes 20 grand a year. It doesn't matter, because we're all just humans. It's like your core values, your faith, your family, who believed in you first, who mentored you first. What tragedy or challenges have you overcome. It's almost like a lifetime achievement award carved into this functionality. You think about Simon sinks. Start with why. It's your why carved into a piece that you use. Most people drink coffee or tea every day. And so it's this functional piece of art to remind you of who cares about you, what matters, and what your life is about. It comes in a special wood box with a video from the artist. And it's gotten to the point now where I won't go on stage and speak unless I'm surprising somebody with either one of the crazy art pieces made of thousands of pieces of broken records that we've done, like Vaynerchuk and those guys, or one of these mugs. And it's not because of what it is. It's because of how it lights somebody up and what it represents.

I love that. I mean, even my mugs that are not handcrafted like this, I consider them manifestation mugs. And I'll get one from a trip in Mexico or somewhere special. My husband's from Lebanon, and it's like it means something when we drink out of those. So I can only imagine, especially for people who are high net worth or high access, where money can buy them whatever they want. And honestly, nowadays for so many of us, we can buy whatever we need on Amazon with one click, you know, insert name of your favorite retailer. And so I think gifting has become harder because we're in this instant gratification society. I've noticed that it's harder to even figure out what to gift friends and family that I really care about. And so I just love super hard. Yeah.

Yeah. Really, really difficult. But I mean, even in the most digital ways, like, think about, like, we first connected, breaking bread in person, I think we crave that element of being human, that. That which does not scale or that which, mm, doesn't feel digital. As humans, whether we believe in a God or not, like, God's wired us to shake hands, like, mean something, give somebody a hug. You can't do that. As awesome as zoom and all the digital stuff that we can do, we still thrive on the real, the physical, the human. And I don't see that going away. If anything, I Think people are craving that more because of so much noise and so much digital that they want the real even more. So.

And like you said, that soul piece is about being seen and recognized and valued and somebody taking the time to dig and think more deeply. So I have to share my giftology story, which you know, because we told you and your team right after it happened.

Yeah.

But first of all, after we had coffee with Dori, little did I know, I get in the mail this gorgeous Tumblr with my logo on it. And I thought, who is this guy? As in in a good way. But I was thinking, how do I get a gift? Like, I was just a tag along with Dory, and even my husband Michael, we had just started dating, and he was there. So he knows all about you and Gift Olog. When FreeTime was just about ready to launch, Idea Press sent him a gift. This is part of your advice is to gift to the family, not just the shiny CEO who's always out in front.

Yep.

So they sent a gift to Michael addressed to him, and it was this gorgeous white Cutco knife. But what really made our heart sing is he opens it and it says, rider's plate engraved on one side. Now, that is a story buried in free time talking about Michael's love of cooking. It's part of his Lebanese culture. He takes so much pride in crafting writer's plate every day. You know, it's our dog, it's his dog food. But Michael will make it the most exquisite meal. And on the other side was the quote from Antoine saintexpry. I'm totally butchering his name because it's French. The author of the Little Prince. The quote that I said to Michael in the acknowledgments, that true love is inexhaustible. The more you give, the more you have. And that was engraved on the other side. And there was a handwritten note. And right away, Michael opens this. He goes, giftology, baby.

And it's from IdeaPress. But we knew that they had partnered with you because it had all these touches, and it was something that even if it said Michael Carsoni engraved, it would not mean what it did for them to have dug deep in the book, find these core values and these, like, beautiful sentiments, and that's what's on the knife. And now I'm the one. When I make soup, when I make salads, it's with this knife every time. And it means so much.

I mean, people will oftentimes be like, I'm not a gift person. I don't care about gifts. I'm like, yeah, ironically, my love language isn't even gifting, and people are shocked.

What is your love language?

Words of affirmation. I'm actually naturally introvert, so gifts isn't even in my top three. But what I realized in business early on when I was starting the company was that nobody gives any real thought to this. And it's like this redheaded stepchild of idea, like gifting, who cares? But if you don't understand that the item itself is a delivery vehicle for the emotional connection, and that's where the quotes or the personalization or the scripture verses, where you have to connect it to the person and to what they care about and their core values. And the bar is so low. If you want to take somebody out to a nice meal, Everybody's taking people out to nice meals at, you know, an 8 or 9 or a 10 level. Like, but you want to wow somebody in the physical realm. People think they're a 7 out of 10, and really they're a negative 3. They're just bad at it. And they think they're gifting, but they're not. And so we just realized there's this area, There's a huge gap. And when you do this well, it doesn't replace having a good business or good product or good service. Like, you can't have, like, sucky restaurant or sucky, like, consulting firm, and then give great gifts and everything's magically better. Right?

That's true.

But if you're good at what you do and you're like, why aren't people referring me more often? You're not top of mind. There's not a portable story attached to you that goes into the dinners or the boardrooms or the conferences or the summits where people are triggered to be reminded to tell the story because you're not engaged with them. Whereas if somebody's using something that you gave them literally every single day with their family, to this day, we still do millions of dollars in the knives because 80 to 90% of what we do is tied to family hospitality, kitchen. It's tied to universal things that, whether you're in New York or Idaho, what do you do with your loved ones? You probably get together and break bread with them in your home. It's your inner circle that's a universal principle. And so many people forget what makes us human, and they forget. Everybody has an inner circle. Like, those things are very simple. But it's easy to be distracted and be like, oh, this person likes bourbon. I'M like, I don't care what they like. What's their spouse like? Those are the deeper questions that most people never get around to asking.

Yeah, and the card acknowledged, as I know you talk about in the book, but it said we know how much work it is to support somebody writing a book.

Oh my gosh. Yeah.

God. Like the mood swings, the time that I'm just heads down in the computer and I get sent a lot of things because I am more out front and I get sent all kinds of things, which is really awesome and fun.

But.

But nobody ever sends something to Michael, let alone Ryder or keeping Ryder in mind. So it's so true. But they're a huge part of what will make any person successful is the family the core behind it. And that's what it's all for as well.

Yep.

What's the point of a book if the family isn't supported?

We'll be right back just after this.

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Giftology at the time of this recording, we are celebrating just about your eight year old bookiversary.

So with these eight years of you on podcast circuits giving talks, hearing from people, what are one or two of the things that people have the most trouble implementing? They read the book, they get super excited. What are the things that you've seen stand out or that you would put into the next edition of Giftology? Now with this vantage point?

Yeah, well I think that people discount the details. They latch onto one thing and they're like I gotta personalize it. And so they'll run out to things remembered or someplace and they'll take some flask or some ruler or something and they're like, yep, it's practical. And they'll slam somebody's initials on it or whatever else, and it ends up feeling like a groomsman gift. It's like, yeah, it's practical, but it doesn't meet all of the details. It's not best in class. They're not going to actually use it. Maybe they use it once a year. Yes, the initials on it do make it personal, but they forgot the family. And so they think that they can take the recipe and they can shortcut it and they can do half the recipe. And that's why when I speak on these big stages, I remind people, like, if you're going to follow a recipe like baking bread, every ingredient is important. You can't leave out yeast, you can't leave out water and expect to get bread. And so I think there's a lot of people that think that they can just take one or two of the ideas. And I'm like, no, this is an all in one system and process and recipe and playbook, and you don't have to spend a whole bunch of money, but you do need to follow the details and you need to dial it in. And, like, the handwritten note is just as important as the thing that you're giving. And all of them kind of fit together. It's like trying to give somebody half of a watch. You can't do that. You either give somebody a watch or you don't. Half a watch is not real useful. And I wish I would have emphasized more that, yeah, these are all unique ideas, but they collectively fit together. And I should have given more examples of that because I think people are like, I did giftology and I'll push back on them. I'm like, well, tell me the recipe. F. And they're like, well, they kind of sheepishly are like, well, we did giftology. Ish. I'm like, guys, it's better almost to not do it at all than to do it half baked.

And you're like, certainly don't attach my brand to those kids.

Don't be telling me you did giftology. I don't want to be attached to that.

Please don't say that out loud. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Let's talk about budget. So I want to talk about two parts of this. So I want to come back to people who feel strapped for cash right now. Okay. But before we get there, one thing that this is maybe a half measure. So maybe you will not approve of this, but I like for these podcasts to sound great. Oftentimes if a Guest doesn't have an external mic, a fancy podcasting mic. I will send one. And I'll send. And the one I send is about a hundred dollars. So I don't send the cheapest possible headset.

Yeah.

And I've had people be shocked. How could you spend that much? It's a podcast guest, you know. But I will tell you, and in the back of my mind, I'm thinking about just the way you talk about. Gratitude isn't a feeling, it's an action. And the person I would invite to my show is inevitably someone I admire. In several cases, I've gifted an author, a soon to be author, a microphone where they're now going to use it the rest of their podcast tour. And it's not personalized, but it is so functional. And it's like, that cost me a hundred dollars. But now I know that they're going to sound great every single time they do an interview about their new book. It feels really good to gift in that way and to put budget towards something like that, even though on paper people sometimes react with shock. Like, that doesn't pencil.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

Well, first off, I mean, I've done hundreds of interviews and I can count on one hand the number of guests that have been sent that kind of followed the principles. So it doesn't pencil. Except if you, you have high quality guests, if they were to go speak publicly or their consulting time or whatever else is probably hundreds of dollars, thousands of dollars, maybe even tens of thousands of dollars per hour. To me, when I'm talking to podcasters, I'm like, guys, like, yeah, you're giving them a platform. But an hour of their time does not scale. They'll never get that hour back. And when I am doing those sorts of things like an interview or whatever else, when I interviewed Sarah Blakely and Jesse Itzler out of my own pocket, sent them tens of thousands of dollars art piece as a thank you from the stage. Because I knew what an hour of their time was worth and I still was in debt to them even after investing tens of thousands of dollars. And so I think anytime we think like, oh, it doesn't pencil, I would challenge people and say that's probably the time you should be doubling down and showing up. Because even though it's not expected, it's just such a classy, bold move. So I think you're smart to show up powerfully when they're probably excited and feel honored to come on the show and then you flip the script and say, no, Like, I really value your time. And you're not just saying it, you're showing it before they're even spending time with you. Talk about creating like great lean in energy right from the start. I think it's super smart.

Well, I appreciate you saying that. And it's truly taken a page out of your book. And that is, like I said, it's not the full giftology strategy. I mean, we're not gifting with any agenda in mind. That's also comes across as sleazy. However, if these are people you respect and you want to know better, like make an impression, you know, make a good impression, do them a solid and it does come back later. And I never do that to be remembered. It actually feels good. I'm like, you, generosity just feels good in my soul, you know, and it's like, yeah, I love it. I crave opportunities to be generous, especially to people that I admire or would want to know better. And it's not always easy to figure out how to gift to VIPs and so if there's a little window, it's like, I'll take it.

Yeah, of course. And even like, I mean, taking your a hundred dollar mic example, the handwritten note that goes with it, or I mean, maybe you do take the time or have your team take the time to personalize it with a quote from their book or their last name or something. A lot of times taking the idea and the thing and saying like, what more could I do with this? Or how could I enhance it or amplify it or if I was on the receiving end, what would make it? Maybe they already have a mic, but I even see that with knives or other things, the one that people gravitate towards is the one that's personal to them, even if they're both identical. And it sounds silly, but the way we're wired as humans is when something's made for us, we just subconsciously lean towards it. And it sounds silly, but it's true. So I think you're onto something.

Okay, last question before the final wrap up. What about people who are. Cash flow is tight. In an ideal world, you would say, set aside a percentage of your revenue. What if they're in the red?

Yeah.

What are some of the creative ideas you've seen of meaningful and personal, but they aren't super pricey.

Well, we just did a gift for Brandon Turner, who has a huge podcast. Bigger Pockets gave a gift to Pace Morby, who's another guy who has a huge following. He's in the real Estate space. And it was, you know, it was a crazy expensive gift. But the thing that was most meaningful one is all the knives were engraved with his quotes and he is Mormon. So at faith scripture. But even the video itself was what hit home so hard. It came in a special video box. And so I would say that if you have limited resources, double down on the personalization of like the note and the video. Because really at the end of the day, all gift is or anything that we're talking about is an act of love. And there's different ways that you can love on somebody, right? Quality time. You can words of affirmation. And to me, I've doubled down on my notes and we now have nine dollar letterhead. It's a sheet of steel and somebody gets handwritten note. For me, it's like crazy. But nine bucks. Like you'd spend $9 at Starbucks on a coffee but a handwritten note on a sheet of steel. I've had people show me theirs that they got a decade ago. So I would challenge people that if you're in the red, don't go into the red even more by like trying to do like crazy gifts. But be crazy thoughtful and take the time to make the video or take the time to write the note and don't just make it about you. Take the time to like pour into that person and what you see in them. And if you want to go even further, take that note and go read it to them in person. You'll both probably cry and they will never get rid of that note and it'll be one of their most prized possessions. And all it did was it cost you your time.

I love that. And it really makes sense now that you said your love language is words of affirmation. That's my big one too. It all makes sense. I feel like I just had the john ruling giftology of like click into place knowing that because it's so true. It's like the gift is secondary to the affirmation and just really truly seeing somebody. I also have to tell listeners we'll get to this, but you have an amazing newsletter. Like your newsletter is actually smart, funny, interesting. It is so good. It's such a good resource for putting this into practice.

That's super kind. We put a lot of energy and effort into trying to make it not just a hey, here's a discount. Hey, here's buy my stuff. Buy my stuff, right? I gotta give a lot of credit to my research team and the people that are with me. It's I I'd like to say it's all just my brilliant genius, but that's so not true. If you met my team, they're like a smarter, funnier version of me. They help facilitate that and make it really, really, really good. So thank you for that.

Final question. If you could give business owners permission to do something differently or drop something altogether, what would it be?

I wish I had partnered up with somebody that filled in my gaps and weaknesses in business sooner. I've been in business 23 years, and the first nine I thought I had to be everything and like, was very insecure and I would find somebody who is your. You know, it's kind of like the EOS or Traction or rocket fuel. Like, you gotta. If you're a visionary, you gotta find an implementer. If you're an implementer, you gotta find the visionary. And to me, that's owning 50% of Giftology was, at least for me, the best decision I ever made. And I'd encourage people to surround themselves with people and not feel like they have to be everything amazing.

And does that mean you brought in a partner? So you sold half the business when you brought that person?

Correct. Yep. Wow.

Bold move.

Yeah. 14 years ago, it's the best. People are like, why'd you do that? And I'm like, I sleep better and make more money and our business operates a thousand times better.

Wow.

With. With that decision.

I love it. Well, thank you so much, John. You've been an influence on me since the day that I met you, and it's just an honor to be alongside, from near and far, the work that you do and to benefit from everything that you share. So thank you so much for being here.

Thanks for having me, Jenny.

Thanks everybody for listening.

If you've listened this far, you get a gold star.

Thank you.

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