232: What's Past Summer? Interim "Pop-up" Pivots with Dr. MJC

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Hello everybody. Welcome back to the Pivot Podcast. This is another installment of our Pivoting Around a Pandemic series with my Pandemic co host, Dr. Michael J. Consuelos. We are recording today on May 27th. I think the date is important for marking when we have these conversations, no matter when they're released. Michael, welcome back to the show for the 12th time. What?

12 times?

That's 12 episodes now. Yeah, that's a. That's baker's dozen.

Wow.

Or is it baker's dozen, where it has one extra.

Yeah, 13. So next time will be the. So if we split this in two, it will be a baker's dozen. How's that?

There it is. Okay, there you have it, folks. Speaking of dozen eggs, bakers, a lot of times when we're texting to figure out when we can do another podcast, you'll tell me. I'll get to our doc right after I do my farm chores. And now, two months into this co hosting, I just have to ask, what are your farm chores?

Oh, great question. And I'm sure interesting to everybody as they're cooped up in their apartments in whatever city. So I think I've mentioned in the past that we live on a relative large farm. It's almost 500 acres. It actually is a family farm from my wife's family. And most of it gets farmed. Actually gets farmed by someone else. Right. So about 2/3 of it is actually arable. I think that's the right word. So it actually can be farmed. So I always try to bring new words to the podcast. So about 2/3 of it, actually a farmer rents the property to grow things such as soybeans and corns and hay and other things. So the other third is a lot of wooded land, lots of. We have trout streams. It's kind of a cool place. And so we live in about 13, 14 acres of that. And on that we have a couple of horses, shenanigans and Tanner shout out to them. And those belong to my wife and my daughter. And they ride them regularly. I get on them on occasion. So those guys eat a lot and excuse my French poop a lot. So one of the farm chores every morning is to muck out their stalls, feed them, and then take them out to pasture during warm weather, like we're having now. So my wife does. Kelly does a lot of that work, and my daughter Madeline does a lot of that work. But I help out also by mowing those pastures. So sometimes my farm chores, including keeping trim, you know, trimming around the fences and doing that kind of thing. And then we also have some ducks and those ducks are lucky enough to lay eggs. So I'm actually the. Seems to be like the head duck keeper, I guess, at our farm. And so every morning I have to make sure they have food and water and they have a little pond that we've. We change the water because they like to swim and, you know, and then go egg hunting because they like to hide their eggs from us, because I think they know we take them and so they like, oh, there's a new spot where they lay the eggs. So actually, maybe sometime in the future podcast, we're getting some ducklings because we're going to refresh some of our ducks who have unfortunately passed away. And so, yeah, so it's basically horses and ducks, lots of mowing, lots of property, and then the occasional this falls apart or that, or there's barns to be cleaned out. So it's a great pastime. You know, Jenny, the nice thing about where we live in is that it's also adjoining Pennsylvania game lands and game preserve, so we actually have access to a thousand plus acres on that. So we do a lot of walking and trail running and mountain biking and all that kind of stuff. So thanks for asking. But, yeah, those are my farm chores probably more than anyone else wanted to know.

See, it's good. It keeps you humble, like picking up horse poo and herding ducks. Mabrook on the new duck family that's soon to arrive. As Michael would say in Arabic.

Oh, thank you. And I have to say that there is a huge calming effect to be, especially around horses. And there's a lot of work around equine therapy.

I did a podcast on what horse whispering has to do with entrepreneurship. I'll put it in the show notes.

Yeah, you know, I think I heard that. You know, it's kind of therapy, right? You get to be outside, you're with nature, and there's a connection there that occurs that is not like another.

Earlier this year, I read two books by. I think her name is Kristen Kimball. She wrote the Dirty Life and Good Husbandry. Have you heard of either of these books?

You know, you've mentioned those to me at one of our momentum calls, and I've seen them. I haven't pulled the trigger, but yeah, go ahead.

They're great. They're great. And it's. She's city slicker, marries a farmer, and then it describes her life and her family's life living on the farm and how much work it is. I don't think any of us appreciate it. And you're doing it. I Mean, it's. It's great that you also have somebody who's renting the land, basically, but I can imagine that it's. It's humbling and keeps you present. And that tactile experience of working with animals and being in nature every day is probably such a good salve to everything that's going on now. And the nature of your work that is so. Especially now, digital and on the computer and on phone calls.

No, it is. And it's interesting in reflecting when you're in the presence of animals or whatever else that they don't. There's no judgment there. You're taking care of them, you're helping them, because obviously we're responsible for them. And there really isn't a whole lot of judgment there. Right. And it's interesting because sometimes I feel like we're judging ourselves during this time and other people are judging us, but there's none of that. You're just doing pure husbandry. Right. Pure caring of that other being. And it's just. It's. It's very, like, simple pure. There's no. No one's trying to get anything else out of them other than, you know, Yep, I need my water, I need my feed. I need to go to a pasture. That's. That's the relationship.

I also find it beautiful how much animals in our care trust us. And that, yeah, it is our job to provide that care and their water and their food and their exercise and their mind stimulation. You know, it is so pure. And for me, too, having Ryder during this time has been very grounding. And we run into so many people in New York who have adopted dogs during this time. I know that's been a national story that the good news of the pandemic is that a lot of these animal shelters are cleared out. In some cases, they're completely empty of dogs because so many people are able to adopt during this time and foster.

Yeah, I wonder what you're saying there. I'm wondering how. What kept people from doing it in the past or what it's bringing to them now that they're making that decision.

Well, they're all working from home. So for people who want to bring a pet home and acclimate the pet and the pet, their animal companion, who want to acclimate them and take them for walks and get used to all the care. I mean, I know some people who have said no, we still. We really still. Sometimes people come to the park. We have now what we call an anarchist dog run because they closed the dog run by us. And so a bunch of us meet in the early evening and let the dogs run free on the grass. Every now and then they escape onto the actual path where people are in the park. But it's this little patch of grass that we've claimed as our own. And it's a bunch of German shepherds running free and some labs, bigger dogs, basically. So people will walk by and be like, what is this? Like, they've never seen five German shepherds on a New York City corner at one time and many of them are puppies. And then some people will come by just wistfully watching, like, oh, we'd love to have a dog, but when we go back to work, it just wouldn't be fair to them. So I think you have a combination of people who are home for the first time, maybe ever in their career, working from home every day, and then also the pets in need, like just knowing that during this time it's the one thing they can do. And there have been so many articles that have come out on the psychological benefits of caring for some, someone else, something else during this time. So, Michael, as I was thinking about what's relevant and what's our queen bee role that we can talk about. How, how do we fit in this conversation? You, you and I both make an effort every single week to look at what's out there, look at what's happening and understand our own experience. One thing that struck me, listening back to our last conversation, is this notion that we are in what I call an interim pivot. Prior to the pandemic hitting, I used to tell people, you might not know what's next, but you might have a vision for what you want to do. Two moves out, and if it seems very far away, it's totally fine to make an interim pivot, where it's kind of a temporary, short term pop up pivot, if you will. It's the first time I've thought of it as a pop up. And maybe this is something you said to me offline, not even on the recording, but that you were contemplating your queen bee role during all this and your business and your shift from full time to now running your own business and practice, that you were saying maybe you want to help business leaders and businesses transition during the pandemic, and that that might be an interim pivot of a year or two years, but that, and I remember saying to you, you don't have to know past that, and that's what I find so interesting, is that I'm curious how you're thinking about your career in business in an interim way as it relates to the pandemic. And then are you also gleaning any insights that transcend even this crisis and that are timeless and actually have nothing to do with the pandemic?

Yeah, I'm having a really hard time looking past right now. It sounds kind of strange because I do a lot of strategy work with organizations, and obviously I've had a, well, cur career and have had all this sort of planned out. This is what I'm going to do next, and I'm going to get this degree and then at this point, I'll get my MBA and da, da, da. And I'm having a hard time looking past the summer. There's so many really. I'm like, okay, what do I do.

September? You know.

I don't know if I'm the only person about that. And I've also been surprised.

I so relate to that. Me, too. You're right. Now that you. Now that you put it that way, I have no clue what the fall will look like. I don't even know what next month will look like.

Yeah, it used to be like, oh, June and July are gone already in my head, and I'm going to be working on my October stuff. Right. That just, to me, that's the way my brain works. And yeah, I'm like, I don't even know what September's gonna look like. I'm having a hard time. And because the world is sort of going through this transition and I'll share with you and the listeners, I've been surprised at what shape my role has taken during the pandemic. So when you and I first started, you know, kind of chatted and had this pandemic podcasting, you know, content, I thought, okay, I've done. I've done the H1N1 thing. I helped out on Ebola. I've done this. Clearly, I'm going to be in the work with an organization. And what has happened is because of the financial free fall, because of just. Just a lot of other things, I have been giving out a lot of free advice, you know, just, you know, helping people out because they just don't have the dollars or don't have the contract flexibility to do that. Doing more podcasting than I ever actually imagined with you, Jenny, but also with other people. As. As I'm putting more and more content. So I've generated, just reflecting. I've generated much more content than I have actually parlayed into actual work. Right. The paying work and that surprised me. Now I've taken advantage and I'm now I've had the opportunity to do that and I don't know where I'm going with this, but I guess I've taken advantage of that liminal state, right. That sort of that you don't know what the next stage is to just think and think with you and think about things. And also just the way of the conversations I've had with people have changed and evolved. People who I've not spoken to in many, many years for whatever reason, now I'm speaking to on a regular basis because of what's happening. And you know, that's interim pivot thing that you keep on that you've said to me is I'm, I guess that's where I am.

I want to highlight a couple things you said. One, being surprised at the role you've taken on during this pandemic that's so interesting to think about and just how you if you start with action. Joan Bayes One of my favorite lines is action is the antidote to despair. In a way, you leapt into action without a plan, without the roadmap that you might have had in the past and that you've been surprised at the role you've taken on. I'm so glad that you said this observation that you're generating much more content than you've parlayed into revenue. I can relate a hundred percent. I'm generating all kinds of content with this podcast and being on webinar, being a guest on people's LinkedIn lives, and yet, and within the momentum community, and yet there's so little revenue that comes from it. There's a big effort on faith right now for me. There's this big just do, just act, just follow my heart and trust that somehow revenue will show up and try not to freak out about it in the meantime. But you mentioned Q4 planning. Let's say normally by this time I'm completely booked up for Q4. Not only I know where I'm traveling, I know what flights I'm going to start booking, I know which events I'm going to be a part of. And that's the fall. The fall is busy season and it's often feast or famine in the keynote speaking industry because a lot of events happen in spring and fall. So we kind of go run around the world in a compressed period of six to eight weeks, you know, max maybe 10, 12 weeks through the quarter and get our revenue that pays for the slow summer months and then it pays ahead into the next year. So it's very strange for me, too, to be here in this interim Pivot. Producing content, sharing ideas, having conversations, which I agree with you, those have really evolved as well, both online and podcasts like this and offline, and then trying to sense into what's next but having no freaking clue.

What other choice do we have?

That's true.

You know, I mean, I guess I like the quote you gave about action. Is the. Was it the prescription for despair?

That's a very doctor Y way to doctor it.

Yeah. Sorry.

It's okay. Action is the antidote to despair.

Yeah. Right, right. So, yeah, I doctor Fied it. Yeah, it's a prescription. But you're right, it's a treatment. Yeah, well, antidote's a treatment. Yeah. So I feel for those who haven't or can't. Right. So they're just stuck in the despair space. And I know that's happening. And so some of the work that I do is around behavioral health and reaching out to folks. And I work for a behavioral health company, digital health company, and, you know, I don't want to bring that into the conversation, but there is a lot of despair. But I want to talk more about what other choices do we have other than to continue to create content or find meaning during this time? And I guess maybe that's. Maybe that's, as I say that in real time, maybe that's. That's it. It's that we're in our own ways trying to find meaning. And in the last episode, I kind of blew up the whole adaptation thing. I called it adaptation, like five times. Adaption.

Adaption. I love it. I'll never forget Adaption.

Yep. I mean, who tell. Who tells us? Well, how it's, you know, just because it's. Adapt. You know, if you want to make.

Up a word, mjc, you are more than welcome.

Thank you. It's the COVID It's. It's the COVID way. Now. What other. Yeah, I mean, you know, so if you're in this interim pivot, I guess, what other choice do you have? And being grounded in that and having faith, like you said, that it will come. But what if. Maybe I'll play a little mind game scenario planning here. What if it's does come, but doesn't come quite the way we thought it would. How do we prepare ourselves.

Beyond the summer? You know, I kind of. I kind of side there. Like, how do I think about that? What's.

Tell me. Tell me about that. Sigh.

Yeah.

Where'd that Come from?

Yeah, I think it came from that. It's. It is not exasperation. That's not it. That's the sort of the release of tension that I hold around that. I guess I'm trying to release the tension around that. So organizations. So I need to take a.

Well, I'm going to pause you for a second. I'm going to pause you. That sigh is very telling because it's like at the moment that your mind wants to have a plan, there's the sigh because it sounds like you've been practicing releasing your plan. There's a sigh of releasing the pressure because the plan bubble starts to form and then you say, pop. No, Michael. And you're reeling it back and you're learning the skill of not having a plan. I wanted to ask you, I read a really awesome profile of a barber. I forget where he's maybe in New Orleans, a barber. And he was a Marine for a long time. And he said, in the Marines, we learn to adapt. That is what we do. So he has an identity as a person now as after his experience in the Marines of I am adaptable, I am agile. That's. That was my job. That's what the Marines were all about. And so he was very early to open up his barbershop and to wear masks, have the customers wear masks, clean everything in between each customer. He was pioneering how to reopen long before many of the businesses that are starting to do that now. I wonder if you can tell listeners, remind me how long you were in the Army. I asked you before we hit record, and I already forgot because numbers go in and out of my mind. Like I said, how long you were in the army and did you develop any part of your identity while in the army working with military families as a pediatrician that the skills or mindset of that are helping you now in this moment.

So I was in the army for six years and before that. So I think I've shared that I went to Princeton for college and I was actually an ROTC during that period of time, which is actually a different path than a lot of physicians who go into the army take. Most physicians in the military go either to the medical school in Washington, D.C. that basically is a military medical school. And so they have a commitment, usually through medical school, and then they serve because they've decided to be a physician in the military. So I had a little bit of a different path where I was an ROTC at Princeton, which actually was a very interesting place to be, and sort of learned to become a soldier before I became a doctor, whereas a lot of physicians become a doctor and they learned how to be a soldier. So I was, and I use that term loosely, a soldier. So actually I was doing quite a few interesting things during college that shaped my military experience. But I also, I don't think I've shared this before. My father worked for the Department of Defense and the Navy for about 31 years. So I grew up either on military installation or very near one my entire childhood. So I was used to being in a military environment. And so I've sort of been in the military most of my life, I guess up until that point in some way or another. And to answer your question, the answer is yes. And I have a couple of things that I'll say to that is that in the military.

They don't just train soldiers, they train leaders because the leaders really make a difference on the battlefield and all parts of the military. So there are many times where if you speak to an ex military officer or enlisted person, the amount of responsibility for the self and others and the accountability to self to adapt, do the things you need to do in your environment as it changes is paramount and is what is. We're sort of trained to do that. And I was responsible for things. I had actually a hard transition to civilian leadership. Now that I think about the way you're asking about this. I was responsible for 30,000 plus people, their healthcare at Fort Knox. I spent the last three years at Fort Knox as a relatively junior physician. And then when I transitioned to the civilian world they're like, yeah, that's great. But.

You weren't raised in our environment. You kind of have to start not at the bottom but near, you know, kind of in the middle. You're not at the top, not that that means, you know, top anything but, but the level of responsibility. So you have 20 some year olds who have responsibility over potentially hundreds of millions of dollars of equipment in the lives and the people who they lead. So second lieutenant, first lieutenant in the military, depending on the force, they're responsible for helicopters and tanks that are worth millions, hundreds of millions of dollars. Right. And then, but it's strange that if you were to take that same person and you PL corporate environment, it's like, well, first you got to get so and so's mail and you have to go get their coffee and then you know, you can be whatever, you know, an analyst and then maybe even after a few years you can be an associate or whatever else. Right. That doesn't, I mean there is Some of that in the military, but they give you a lot of responsibility and they trust and then the amount of trust they have and their support systems, you, you grow up pretty darn fast and you're, you are given a lot of responsibility and you're trained and you're taught how to do that. And because we are in the military, at the end of the day, it's a battlefield environment. The battlefield changes and you have to adapt to it. So I think that with the description of the barber to kind of full circle to, with that, I think what you may have read or just putting myself in that person's place is they have situational awareness so they understand what their environment is handing them, they understand their skill sets, they've done some sort of gap analysis, what they need to do. I'm sure that person has tapped into their resources around them, understand what supplies, actions they need to do and they put together a relatively good, thoughtful sequence of plans. Also, there's lots of backwards planning in the military. So you start with the time of whatever the operation starts and you work your way back to where you are now. And you have to figure out all the things you need to do to make that work. Now I think people in corporate world sort of say, okay, here's the strategy, this is where we want to go. In the military, there is some of that, but you have to figure out you do a lot of backwards planning. And probably putting myself in that barber's shoes, he says I want to open by around this date or I want to be prepared when the, when we're allowed to cut hair, what are all the things I need to do so that the day, the first day I can open my shop, everything is ready, I am prepared. In fact, I may even go in a couple of days before and test everything and actually how is this all going to work? And you practice it.

That idea of backwards planning is so interesting. I wonder how you think it relates to this notion of not even knowing what summer looks like. Both for, for either, for you individually, for or for all of us listening. How could we apply black backwards planning to let's say summer? We don't know what it looks like. We don't really know, especially if you're self employed, where that, where your income's going to come from or what's going to be safe, what's not families trying to plan vacations or staycations.

How could we apply backwards planning to the times that we're in right now?

Well, that's a great question. I think What I would say is maybe some scenario planning is probably the way. So part of situational awareness is knowing what's going on now, but also to prepare for yourself for what potential scenarios are in the future. So I would start with the conversation with folks around. So what do you think will happen? What is a 50, 50 or 30% chance of what you think the world will look like in the next two to three months? Let's start there and let that be as concrete as possible.

And does it make sense though for every individual? I just think about the cycles of every individual doing that. At the same time, I think that's what's so hard about this, is how can every individual on their own say what they think will happen? You know what I mean? Or is that our work to each individually sort of synthesize what we're seeing and make a guess at that.

So, Jenny, you gave me a problem, I try to solve it. That's what I do. So yeah, I mean, yeah, but you're right, right. So.

I don't know the answer to that. I honestly 100% don't know the answer to that. I just, I think I was trying to answer your question. So if I was forced to say you have to think about what September 1st looks like, my gut, my training, my experience would say, okay, where do I think the world is going to be at that time? And let me plan that. But also part of the scenario planning is to plan what happens if that doesn't happen. Right. So you do multiple scenarios. Maybe it's not the right thing, but maybe it's just the way I just as a flow of ideas that you gave me around the military piece colored and biased that reaction.

No, it's good. I mean, I love hearing your take and I also find it fascinating to know that you grew up in a military family and moving around a lot and have that agility baked in in a way. And I love what you said too. The military doesn't just train soldiers, they train leaders. It relates to what you said as well, about what other choice do we have than to make meaning out of this? And that's what we're doing. Even on these conversations we were both saying how we never know what we're going to talk about before we set the date and the schedule on the calendar. Then as soon as we have the conversation scheduled, Michael and I will spend a few days adding interesting articles and thoughts and analysis into a Google Doc. Then we come to the recording and we might still drop half of it or 90% of it and be in the moment with a conversation. But, but we were saying before we hit record that just the, the nature of the work is to show up, is to just show up and parse what you have available with your perspective at any given time. And I know that's what we're trying to do.

And give and, and give. Right. So give, give, give in an authentic way. So there is something that I discuss with my coachees, you know, so I've mentioned that I do executive coaching, is that nothing clarifies the mind like a deadline. And just what you said about we don't know what we're talking about, but the moment that, you know, I've. Sit down, okay, we ought to talk about this and we have to plan what we're going to talk about. It clarifies. There's clarity that starts to appear. And maybe the fact that there isn't a deadline or there isn't a picture of what we need to do over the next two to three months is causing the lack of clarity. Right. It's this constant state of fogginess. But if we knew that we had to do something, if Jenny, you knew you had to give a Talk Somewhere on September 1st, there's a sequence of events that you would have to go through. You mentioned about booking all the things that you do. But it clarifies the mind and the fact that.

Those deadlines don't exist or at best are calendar holds. They're not even commitments. It doesn't clarify the mind were lost.

Well, that gives me an idea that we can close part one of this recording on, which is what deadlines can you set for yourself to help create that clarity? So for me, with the podcast, there's a daily deadline, if not a weekly deadline for a weekly batch, if I'm really on top of things. But I love this idea, this question of picking a date that makes sense to you individually. So, no, you can't predict the future.

But.

But you could say, all right, one month from now, where do I want to be? When I look back and doing that backward planning, where do I want to be? Or what would help me feel more empowered? Or what would help me feel safe? What would help me feel joyful and just set some random deadlines. It's almost like here in New York City, people.

There'S a lot of chatter. It's like, oh, is it all going to open up May 15, May 15, May 15. You know, I, at least I hear this at our Anarchist Dog run. And then, oh, no, it's June 15th. It's June 15th. It's june 15th. And then everybody kind of buzzes about the new deadline. What if instead of just waiting for it to be handed down, and obviously there's so much of a cascade that will happen when it is officially handed down, but what if we also set our own deadlines and we say, all right, by June 15, no matter what is happening or if things are more open, here's what I would love to see and do. And if things are less open and more locked down, here's what I'd love to see and do. And this kind of goes back to the interim pivot to go full circle, which is, what if you gave yourself permission not to know what your life, career, business was going to look like a year from now, and you actually just address the time that we're in and say, how can I serve? What can I create? What can I give? What's needed? What problems can I solve? What would I be proud of during this time with the reality that we have now? Because it's not going anywhere. And I actually think, just like what's happening for you, Michael, clarity will emerge from jumping in and taking action that might actually shape your pivot to moves out. Even if that seems like it has nothing to do with navigating a pandemic.

I like what you're saying. It's really resonating with me. And I think the other thing that I'll share with you is that I've also learned is letting go of what I thought was going to be happening. I have to let go of what I thought my role would be during this pandemic. I'm just going to let go and move to the next thing.

That's very powerful. Let go of what I thought my role was going to be during this pandemic. It relates to something you said. You were saying that even on this podcast series, it's been a shift for you. The episodes we've done that aren't just focused on the medical brass tacks. You're like, this is kind of uncomfortable in a way. Or this is not the role I thought I'd have coming in of being the medical expert and that there is this interesting adventure into your stretch zone, maybe of what? If you don't rely on your role as the medical expert, what role starts to emerge? Absolutely, Michael. It is always such a joy and honor, a privilege to do these podcasts with you. This is going to wrap up part one of our latest installment of the Pivoting Around a Pandemic. Series. Tune in and make sure you're subscribed to the Pivot Podcast to get part two with Dr. MJC.

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Remember, build first, then your courage will follow. Hasn't it always.