235: Co-Journeying and Re-Opening—Roundtable with Dr. Anthony Harris and Dr. MJC

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What's next? This is a question we're all having to ask and answer more frequently. I'm Jenny Blake, your host of the Pivot Podcast and author of Pivot. The Only move that Matters is your next.

From this episode. Visit pivotmethod.com podcast if Change is the only constant, then let's get better at it. Here we go.

Hello everybody. Welcome back to the Pivot Podcast. I am so excited to be here today with not one but two doctors. That's right, the pandemic has gone far enough. Now we need to bring another expert to the table. But in true serendipity, as often happens around Pivot and in my life, I'm just so delighted to be here today with Dr. MJC and Dr. Anthony Harris. You all know Dr. Michael J. Consuelos by now. He's been my co host for 13 episodes of pivoting Around a Pandemic, this mini series that we're doing. Michael has been involved in pandemic response off and on since 1997. Events come and go in terms of importance. He's been a solopreneur for over a year now, helping businesses now look toward the future. And how do they move forward from this? How do they plan A, B, C, D and Z as we look toward reopening and there's no normal, but as we try to get to some sort of steady state while always being open to change. And I'm so excited to introduce you to Dr. Anthony Harris. Dr. Harris has advised New York City businesses in high tech manufacturing, food and beverage production on how to keep workforces safe as they reopen during the COVID 19 pandemic. He is a doctor. He is a serial entrepreneur. He fought his first patent as a freshman undergrad. He is a preacher's kid. So blends faith, medical, entrepreneurship, all the things that we know and love here on the Pivot podcast and he has currently been at work care for two and a half years. He's now their Chief Innovation Officer and Medical Director. He's leading over a million screens now for coronavirus every day. Beyond just New York City. Dr. Harris, welcome to the show.

Thank you, Jenny. Great to be here. And thank you, Dr. Mike, and looking forward to talking.

So we got the lucky opportunity to hear a little bit more about you before we hit record because this is the first time that the three of us are meeting and chatting. Dr. Harris, can you just catch us up a little bit?

Absolutely, yeah. Born and raised in the south and went to undergrad at Indiana University, where I got a dual degree, mba. With my passion for invention, I realized the business piece plays a big role in scaling whatever I invent and started a couple medical device companies after doing a couple years of general surgery and a fellowship in medical device design, and left medicine really for about 2, 3 years, serving as interim CEO and chairman of those businesses. We did the whole venture capital, raised $10 million.

FDA, EUA kind of approval, and ended up finishing residency in occupational environmental medicine. That's my board certification now. And that's been a blessing in regards to helping companies, large businesses, keep their workforce safe. And certainly that's played out in a powerful way with regard to COVID 19. So just really happy to talk more about how this has impacted my career and outlook on health and wellness.

Thank you. I want to start by asking you, Anthony, cannot believe we're halfway through 2020 and it feels like five years have passed in the span of six months. How has this year been for you so far, especially as doing the work you're doing with work care? I mean, I don't even know where to start, just either how you first got impacted when coronavirus started really making its way into the States in mid March, or where do you find yourself now and how are you doing it? Aren't you just exhausted, really on the front lines?

You know, it's been a whirlwind, right? I probably haven't had as little sleep.

Compared to my residency during general surgery. But it's been an opportunity, very much so, to hit a goal of just impacting as many lives as we can. And I do serve as the lead doc at WordCare for our COVID 19 initiatives. And we've actually been advising companies since February. That's when we started advising on infrared thermography for temperature screening. And we've grown it since then to do the daily screen. We were probably the first movers in the marketplace to offer a digital platform for doing a daily screening for 100% of the workforce. And like I said, we went from zero to 20,000 workers being screened every day in about 72 hours when we launched the service. And We've just been doubling down from there with the notion that if we can prevent one person from going and transmitting the coronavirus to grandma, grandpa, you know, that's a potential life saved. So for home life, you know, it's interesting. I've been so Work care is a distributed workforce. We've got about 300 employees and we're kind of strewn throughout the US so I always worked from home since I've been at work here and managed our on site clinics. We went from 50 clinics that I managed to over 300 clinics just because of COVID in terms of boots on the ground helping companies keep workers safe with screenings. And so it's been home life has been interesting in terms of balance. And one of the things I'm learning now is balance is kind of a myth, right? It's all about counterbalance, if you would, versus true balance. And it's been fun to kind of bring my family into the journey in terms of, you know, sharing what we do and who we're impacting, the lives we're hopefully saving through our efforts.

I like that counterbalance piece, Anthony. And I'm sort of relatively new to that working from home thing for the past year, even though I did some days here and there. What kind of advice or what kind of things have you found that you were surprised that you're doing now? So you work from home a lot, but now you're doing things differently. What things have made your life working from home just a little bit easier or.

Sure. Routine is key, right? So you know, we often going into the clinic or going into the office as opposed to going into the office every day, you can develop. Most everybody's developed a pretty good routine, right? So the key with working at home is to have the same, right. Have a routine that gets your mindset prepared to tackle the most important things of the day. And that's probably the second piece. Making sure you focus in on what is the. If you had to choose one. I'm reading a book right now.

And it's all about the one thing and choosing the one thing, whether that's for the day, whether that's for the month or for your career that you're going to get after with fervor. And for the day to day, working from home, choosing that one thing as early as you can that morning and then making sure that you get that done in the prime of your frontal lobe activation.

Being able to focus. That's been key for me and I think as I share with our distributed workforce, that's used to about 40% of people at work here are used to going into an office at some point during the week. And so trying to help them establish those routines has been beneficial, for sure.

I love the One Thing. It's a great book, indeed. All the questions I love where he gets to the point where he says, what is the one thing that would make the biggest difference in this week ahead? Or what's the one thing that would completely transform your relationship? Or what's the one thing that would make your entire workload easier? Like, it gets really powerful. It's not as straightforward as it sounds. Some of those questions are very transformative.

No, it's so interesting, Right. When you can distill it down to that, you know, it brings so much clarity to not just your day, but kind of your focus for the next couple weeks, next couple months, and beyond work, it helps you do that, you know, in home life, your relationships. So it's a really powerful way to focus your energy, for sure.

So on the subject of energy, we're recording this now on Wednesday, June 10, and the country has been in tremendous upheaval, necessarily. So how has it been for you the last two weeks? I know a lot of people I speak with are just exhausted and angry and processing and grieving, and there's so much emotion. It can be hard to focus on work during times like this. And you also have an interesting perspective, one as a black man in America, but also being black in the fields of entrepreneurship in medicine. How has it been for you these last two weeks and beyond? But also, like, how do you find the time, more space to process your own energy while holding up so many others through the work you're doing? As chief innovation officer at We Care.

I probably haven't taken as much time to be reflective about what's going on because I've been in the moment of what we're doing in terms of our work and preventative strategies for the workforce with regard to COVID 19 and other types of illnesses. It does remind me as I in the few moments that I stopped and actually thought about the unrest. Right. And certainly those moments came here in Chicago, where even in my neighborhood I live just south of McCormick Place in an area called Bronzeville. It's where historically the African Americans had to live because they weren't allowed to live in other areas of the city during segregation times. And so you had a very diverse collection of African Americans, from doctors and dentists and lawyers to, you know, those who were helping on the front lines of janitorial services and things of that nature. So, you know, the neighborhood had three fires during the riots that were on not just social media, but the news. And they were. I mean, literally, we woke up one morning and outside was.

Probably heard lightning. Sorry about that. Thunder. But the outside was smoky from the fires. And during those moments of reflection, it kind of brought to bear, you know, why one, why are we seeing the level of unrest? And for me, what does that mean? Right. How have I. I believe the unrest is coming because our human nature is that we all want to be seen in the here and now with positive regard. And that hasn't been the African American experience in the US it hasn't been my experience at all times. And as a physician, sure, I have.

Moments where I am regarded positively, but I've also experienced the opposite, even with walking into a patient's room. And so it's during those moments that I stop and just kind of reflect on, you know, why what we're seeing is present and why it needs to change, and reflects on my own experience of how it shaped me as an African American male. And I mentioned earlier, while we were talking earlier, before the show started, you know, I have a son on the way. And so what is it going to mean to, you know, bring another African American male into the world and try to teach him, you know, what he's going to experience? It's definitely something that causes me fear and anxiety, if I'm being honest. And I just kind of think about it in that frame. If you would.

Yeah. Thank you for sharing. There's no way I can begin to understand. I so appreciate you sharing your. Where you're at with everything. And it does seem like you're just at this again. Incredibly unique place and moment in time of the pandemic has created so much fear and anxiety among people and just fear of each other in a way. Like, even in New York City, just as you pass, you can only see people's eyes. There's just so much under the surface because of the pandemic. And then I think it's so important what's happening with the protests and of also the Black Lives Matter movement of saying, like, we demand to be seen and heard, and it's long overdue. And what you were saying about not always feeling seen even in the medical community or working as a doctor, I'm seeing now across a lot of different communities, black friends are raising their hands and saying, actually, I have not felt welcome in this community where people like, let's say they're white community leaders, Might have thought, oh, I'm inclusive, I'm not racist. This is a safe space. And yet it isn't. And so it seems like that lightning and thunder is so powerful as a backdrop, but it seems like this moment of kind of turning the lights on in the room saying, wake up everybody, wake the f up.

No, I agree. And it, you know, really is a. It seems to be a culmination of.

Shared suffering, shared experience because of COVID 19 that has left people really raw, right, and primed for change because they're able to co journey now in some way, shape or form with the suffering that African Americans have had for all this time. And so it's also powerful to see black, white, brown hands join in peaceful protest, right, because they are having a shared experience again due to Covid, in terms of how it's impacted their lives individually and collectively. It's profound.

That's really well said. I couldn't have said with myself is that this time of COVID has been at some level, maybe in my mind, a great equalizer. I mean, the virus doesn't know boundaries. The virus is a no race. I mean, unfortunately, we see these significant numbers in high risk populations. And obviously it has hit the black and Hispanic community, which I belong to much more strongly because of the, number one, the work that we usually do, which is much more in the essential worker kind of phase, but also the neighborhoods and the impact of overall health of our communities. So I think you're right, Anthony. I think that raw feeling of just the past two or three months and then just, I think this continuing pressure building up, you know, I think we're seeing that. And I think, you know, I'm. And just the level of discomfort that people have in having the conversation, I find also just you know, disconcerting. And I don't know where to, you know, sometimes take people to, you know, ask more questions. And as, you know, as a physician, we're sort of sometimes postured to say, okay, we see a problem, we want to do a test, we want to make a diagnosis, we want to heal right away, right? There's that sort of like jumping onto the healing process right away. And I just sort of have to check myself and go, okay, there's a lot more listening, a lot more diagnosing, a lot more testing and understanding and in my mind, stretching the boundaries and giving people space and sort of a container to kind of explore their edges. Because I think if we jump too quickly, at least personally, if we jump quickly to two, like, okay, this is the solution we have the ability to maybe just put a bandaid on something and not really find out what that. Just like in medicine, if you just basically treat the symptoms and not the underlying disease, you're not going to heal the patient long term. It's not going to be the true process that you want to have. I really enjoy your words and your perspective on this. One of the questions I have for you as an entrepreneur, as a physician, I can relate to that. As an entrepreneur, how do you see yourself and the things that you've learned and maybe things you can share with us? Because you'd really bring a different perspective of being a physician and an entrepreneur. And how did that. How does that work and how do you balance your interest and your time? I'm just interested in your journey, I guess, a little bit more.

Sure. You know, wow. As I'm just kind of thinking about it in the moment now with you too, the impact as I prepare, as I prepare for a listening session with the business incubator that I'm associated with. Downtown Chicago, 1871. They've reached out to black founders and they want to hear from us. As I reflect on what to say and how to respond and how I've been impacted and as we're talking here now, you know, I know the facts. Right. I know the facts that entrepreneurs aren't made up primarily of African Americans. Right. We're less than. I believe it's less than 5%. Right. Of entrepreneurs. I know that we don't have capital, access to capital like our white counterparts. I know that we are underrepresented both male and female. And I know that I've experienced personally raising capital and not being as successful as my counterparts in the medical device industry.

The depth of it really, that I'm starting to spend time in reflecting is may not be necessarily that I'm singled out and disadvantaged because of a implicit bias. Perhaps it is.

If I can make general assumptions about my preparedness, perhaps I'm less prepared. Right? But then it's not to dismiss the racial layers that have potentially caused a systemic ill preparedness of black and brown people in the entrepreneurial avenue. Because we know that wealth generation is generational and we know that entrepreneurism is also closely tied to generational legacy. Right. Numerous co founders I talked to white counterparts say, oh yeah, my dad is a businessman as a business owner, you know, and his father too, right. And so that. That is not me. And that's few of the black entrepreneurs I know where we don't have a resource of a parent Or a close relative that is a serial entrepreneur, a successful business person who can basically lead us and guide us, take us under the wing early in our journey during our adolescence, and train us up. And so my ability to show up and my ability to present in a way that is on par with my counterparts perhaps is crippled from years and generations of poor access or deliberate limitations to access. And.

That.

Makes me sad. And I see much of what we're seeing today again, in that unrest.

Play out in the frustration and the anger.

And for me personally, it deepens my resolve that it changes with me. And I was just sharing with my executive coach yesterday afternoon, you know, my drive. Right. Where some of my drive comes from. And it's so that my kids don't share that same experience. Right. They're able to begin their journey a little bit further ahead than where I was because of the limitations in the past generationally.

Thank you, Anthony, for sharing that, and they absolutely will. I mean, it just hurts my heart. And it's not about me and how I feel, but I know that especially in the venture capital world, it's so skewed. And as you were saying, oh, maybe there's a chance you're not as prepared, but you were telling us before you hit record, was it that you got your business, your MBA while going to medical school, or was it during undergraduate sometime or another? You're doing two degrees at once, right?

Yeah, it was a dual degree program with my medical degree.

Okay.

Yeah.

It's, like, insane how much you've done. And I know that sometimes part of the problem is that as a society, we lift up, you know, the rare few, and we say, look, anything's possible. The American dream, anyone can make it. But in order to even do that, there's so much to overcome. And like you said, you have had tremendous drive within you. You know, just getting a dual degree in medical and your business degree at the same time. I don't know how you did it. And certainly your kids now will be able to look to you as such a source of inspiration. I'm going to step back because I love what, Michael, you said about not trying to jump to heal right away. That was really important, that as a doctor, your urge is often to write the prescription, put the band aid on, and it's understandable that even I feel that urge. And I'm gonna say it's important to be uncomfortable right now and look at, you know, Anthony, what you're describing in the business realm and the funding, and yet then we can see that the 20 something, you know, white kid in a hoodie can get funding right away. He certainly doesn't. 22 years old, there's no way he has a dual medical and business degree. So I don't think we can even say, oh, he's somehow more prepared than you, other than that invisible privilege of maybe family wealth or family legacy or family that has been able to teach him business since he was a kid, things like that. I really want to say thank you and I guess I want to turn the mic back over of we don't have to jump to action or fixing, but is there anything you want to say? Like is there anything around this? I know you're going to do the listening session with the business incubator.

Well, you know, it comes down to practicalities too. You know, I mean, I have friends who had parents that afforded to send them to medical school, right. Undergrad and medical school. And because of that, they didn't walk away with student debt. And because they didn't have student debt, they could take on risks, such as entrepreneurial risk, more so than I was able to having no undergrad debt, but having debt from medical school. Right. And so it's those seemingly, you know, insignificant differences, right. In the totality of things that can make substantial differences in our ability to take advantage of opportunity. Right. There's just, you know, maybe your parents weren't business people. Right. And many of my medical school cohort and their parents were doctors as well. Right. So it still, again, the opportunity. And I've had these direct, you know, conflicts even with my latest venture, right, where my partners, co founders are saying, look, you know, full time, go full time, you know, let's just take advantage of the opportunity. And I said, no, look, I have obligations and because of that I cannot. So it's that very real experience that again affords some who are positioned not so much of privilege. Right. But just so much they're positioned financially that they can spend more time focused in on growing a business or leveraging a new market. Whereas if you don't have that opportunity, you may be.

Less successful, let's just put it that way. So I don't know, it just causes me to think about, you know, how things that I would pass over from just a superficial thought process really does play a key, potentially key role in an entrepreneur's success. Or not.

Yeah. And thank you for sharing your experience of that. There are so many layers and I know this conversation in the venture capital and entrepreneurship world has been happening for several years. I used to say oh, yeah, I bootstrapped my business. You know, my. I've been self employed for nine years now. And I used to think that I bootstrapped my business because I didn't take any outside funding. I mean, what a joke. Like, what a joke.

Exactly. As you said, I could take risks because my mom worked at Stanford. So Stanford paid half my UCLA education. And I graduated with 10,000 in debt, not 100,000. And I worked at Google. And then what benefits did I have from even where I went? I grew up in San Francisco, went to middle school in Palo Alto. So, okay, now I'm getting educated in Silicon Valley. Okay, then, then what? So it's like if I trace the chain all the way back, not just being born white, being born with two parents who say, I love you, that's already something. And so when I looked at this whole thing, I thought, what? It's, it's a lie to say, you know, oh, I bootstrapped my business because what. And I said this on an episode a couple years ago on invisible privilege. But 114 of what kind of boots were you born in?

That's good.

Yeah. What brand of boots were you wearing? Did you have boots like, and so, and so to especially. And for me, and this is part of what I'm unpacking now is like, this isn't a conversation for me to dip in and out is a privilege. And it's unacceptable at this point to just, to do that, to just think, oh, I'm just gonna dip in and out of various events around the world, you know? No. And I think with coronavirus and with COVID to bring it back to where both of you focus.

It'S frustrating to see that coronavirus, as you said, Michael, kind of doesn't discriminate. Right. It's like anyone can get it, rich or poor, anywhere in the world at any time. And yet, as we see it playing out in America, at least, because I'm not as informed of how this inequality looks elsewhere.

How it disproportionately affects and even the conversation around essential workers that some of them are saying, f you. First of all, I'm not working because I choose to, because I'm a hero. I work because I have to or I'm going to lose my apartment or not be able to support my family. And then secondly, now you're calling me essential, like all these Amazon workers who have been fighting for their rights for so long, who weren't allowed to unionize in New York because Amazon just took the ball and went home as de Blasio said. And then, and then now they're essential. It's, it's maddening and I, it's, it's hard to know where to start with it all. Yeah, go ahead, Michael. I'm sorry, this podcast, inarticulate. I don't even have questions.

No, no. So, you know, so what I've been wrestling with, Anthony, maybe you could help me and Jenny and the audience is, you know, in the, you have this great perspective and you're peering into because of your work. These businesses who work with work, care and trying to get. Basically there's two populations that business owners are worried about. So it's their employees, which I think sounds like what you're making sure that there's healthy employees going to work every day and that they're not going to infect a co worker or a customer. Then there's the customer when they feel safe. Even if you open the restaurant and it's whatever the right Green Zone order is, are people actually going to come in at the same volume beforehand? And you know what I'm wrestling with? I personally am trying to help universities open because there's great data right now that shows that some universities will have a 15 to 20% drop in attendance this coming fall. Right. And those numbers are highest in at risk populations. The minority populations in older sort of mature, I guess we say adults who are basically putting themselves through school. Right. So now they don't have jobs, even though they're maybe doing part time college or university work or community college work. Now they have to choose, you know, do I invest in my own education or do I have to keep food on the table? Right. And again, going back to your saying that Jenny is like what boots were you born in? These folks may not have the boots to do that, to bootstrap themselves. So for my work, I try to think about how do I help college students, university students, medical schools, whatever it may be, make sure that they go back to school because we need them further education and continuing their progress. But also there's college universities who may fold. And those college universities usually are in areas of highest risk or at least in areas where they serve those populations. So a long winded question here, sorry about that, but maybe a little self serving for me. What are you learning and what are you to serve? Specifically those business, businesses that are at highest risk with the essential workers, what kind of investments these business can make in helping their workforce return to work, making sure their customers come in the door. And in my, you know, my thought Process, Students coming back safely, athletes coming back safely. Because it's obviously a huge impact across the board. So I don't know what your thoughts are.

Yeah, absolutely. And I've been thinking about, you know, the workforce and universities and athletes as well. You know, the, the workforce we deal with in occupational medicine daily and been helping with. And then on the student athlete university. And My nephew played D1 basketball and now he's coaching in Tennessee. And my niece plays D1 softball for Duke. And so I've been talking with them about the return of.

Athletics to the university setting and students coming back. And you're absolutely right. I mean, in terms of the most vulnerable universities and the most vulnerable populations. And then the opportunity, unfortunately, to prevent university from closing is quickly, you know, potentially passing this by because of the fear and anxiety that not just students, but parents will have about sending their kids back. Right. And so a strategy on keeping the workforce and then keeping the student population safe and bringing them back as quickly as possible is something we've been absolutely focused in on. And again, not to, as you echoed, not to be self serving, but we kicked off an initiative called Covid Clear Zones. And the whole goal of it is to make sure that the employer first and foremost has a process in place that is very prescriptive on not just screening, but COVID testing and a process for getting those who are symptomatic and asymptomatic home quarantined safely in the workplace. And then secondarily those who patron, not just obviously restaurants, but patron, whether it be.

Our art venues and whatnot as well. We've been working with studios, production studios, to help bring them back online and bring the patrons back to enjoying those live audience.

Productions. And it's been really insightful in terms of the conversations we have with the workforce and with patrons by way of just understanding the impact from a fear and anxiety standpoint that Covid has had. And you know.

I think the return to normalcy that we all hope for, right, that we talk about.

Is not coming for some time. I'm not trying to be grim about it. I'm just trying to be practical about it. And what I mean by that is those underserved populations like again, I'm quote unquote, south side Chicago, right. We've seen not just restaurants, but grocery stores close up, right. Because they couldn't weather the impact from COVID in terms of people not coming in. And so now you have once food deserts that had some level of attentiveness and began to have access to Healthier choices. Now going back to food deserts and it's an impact that again, as we talk about recovery back to normalcy, may linger for quite some time if we don't have solutions that help prevent illness and as well again prevent the anxieties that are going to stop patrons from showing up. So you're spot on in terms of there's a lot of work to be done and there's a lot of insights that we still need to gain in terms of understanding how to help with these matters.

Yeah, Anthony, I appreciate the food desert piece because I've done a lot of work in healthcare disparities and population health and it's, you know, I think it's, we could do a whole other hour on that perspective. Right, the access to.

Healthy foods, to safe and reliable transportation. We already talked about education.

Right.

You know, so. Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, thank you for bringing that up because I had totally been blinded that piece and how important it is to have these little islands of healthy food in these neighborhoods stay alive. And you know, this. And I would direct you to some of the interesting data that's around sort of the dollar store and some of these like convenience based groceries that open up in rural areas and inner cities and how they really don't, you know, market healthy foods, those to those populations and actually add to the disease state. So thank you for bringing that up. That is, that is some great info. I want to hand it off to Jenny because I think, you know, I think we've got, we're moving into some interesting space, but I know, Jenny, you want to take it from here.

I'm just in awe of both of you and this conversation. I'm admiring our attempt to boil the ocean in an hour, less than an hour. So many important topics. I'm really glad both of you brought up food deserts as well. There's another topic that I just, I'd kind of dipped in and out of over the years, but it's so, it's so important. And my dad used to live in rural Tennessee. I know, Anthony, you lived in Tennessee at one point and there was just nothing there. There's no Whole Foods. There's no Whole Foods. It's only fast food and Walmart and just seeing it because again, like I've mostly lived in San Francisco, Louisiana for a short period in New York. And food deserts are real. And it's where my dad was living in rural Tennessee and now rural Washington. There's nothing. Main street is closed. You walk down Main Street. My dad's been kind of raising the flag on this, waving the flag for. For many years. He calls it cannibal capitalism, that you go to Main street and it's boarded up and closed. And this is pre pandemic where windows are broken, windows are boarded up, shops are boarded, nothing can survive. It's a blight, it's very bleak. And again, that's pre pandemic. Wow. There's so much pain that's been around and so much inequality that is increasing. I just appreciate both of you shining light on this. I think we can only each do our best to keep doing that. It's just raising this awareness so that listeners and people can each take whatever steps that they can in their own sphere of influence. Anthony, I know we're just about out of time, so this can be brief, but I have a feeling, well, hopefully if you're willing, we can pick up again sometime for another conversation. You grew up the preacher's son. So what role does faith play for you in days like these, in times like these, in a year like 2020.

I distill it down to my work and my impact and my one prayer, which is, God, help me impact your people. And I've had more clarity during these times.

Than I ever had before. I mean, even as a physician charged to take care of lives, I didn't have that focus necessarily in my entrepreneurism. And.

The efforts that we've put forth with new business designed specifically to help impact and prevent in Covid has helped me gain that clarity and it has made a world of difference in my waking up each morning and just getting after it. That single focus, that one thing, God, help me impact your people.

That is so beautiful. That is so beautiful. Thank you for sharing. God help me impact your people.

Thank you.

My pleasure.

Thank you, Anthony.

Yeah, thank you so much.

I have a similar one. Make me a messenger. So just make me a messenger. Put me to work, show me, show me what to do. What's next?

I like that.

Thank you so much, Dr. Harris. Thank you for being here, for being who you are, for doing the incredible work that you're doing in the world on all fronts. And congrats on the baby on the way. I hope we can continue this conversation sometime. And thank you, Dr. MJC, for being my fearless co host. As always, thank you, Johnny.

Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the Pivot podcast. Make sure you don't miss an episode or my insider tips and templates by signing up for Pivotlist, a curated twice monthly newsletter where I share the inside scoop on what I'm reading, watching, listening to, and the latest tools I'm geeking out on. Sign up@pivotmethod.com pivotlist get show notes from this episode@pivotmethod.com podcast and connect with me on Twitter ennyblake.

Remember, build first, then your courage will follow. Hasn't it always.