239: Resilience and Compassion Fatigue with Colleen Pelar

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What's next? This is a question we're all having to ask and answer more frequently. I'm Jenny Blake, your host of the Pivot Podcast and author of Pivot. The only move that matters is your next one.

For show notes from this episode, visit pivotmethod.com podcast if Change is the only constant, then let's get better at it. Here we go.

Hello friends. Welcome back to the Pivot Podcast. I am so excited to be here today with Colleen Pilar. Thanks to Regina for the introduction. Regina said you two must know each other and I think you would be a great conversation for the Pivot Podcast and you'll hear why in just a moment. Colleen is a passionate educator with eight fun, engaging presentation style who started training dogs professionally over 25 years ago while pregnant with her oldest child. She spent that nine months reading everything she could about dog training and child rearing. I was struck by the similarities between the best of both over her long career since she's been a conference speaker, she's published three books about building safe, happy relationships between kids, parents, dogs and even pet professionals. And she created a website, livingwithkidsanddogs.com. she also now is primarily occupied with helping pet professionals stay resilient and self care amidst a very challenging job. So veterinarians, vet techs, dog walkers, groomers, helping pet professionals stay happy, healthy and energized so they can do their best work. She does this through her free community, Resilient Pet Pros, her private Unleashed Resilience Community and her podcast Unleashed at Work and Home. Colleen, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much Jenny. I'm really excited to be here. I've always loved the Pivot book and podcast because there's so many people really leaning into their passions and exploring new worlds. Thanks for providing that forum.

Oh my goodness honor to know that you're listening and to you as well. I love, I know for sure that the reason Regina put us in touch is that you have such a specific focus and I love we've often joked especially I love dogs so much. We've Joked in Momentum that we want to start a side community for pet owners and entrepreneurs. And I just love your focus at the intersection of supporting pet professionals and resilience. And how do we combat compassion fatigue and stay grounded and centered while caring for pets that so many of us love and cherish so deeply as part of our families?

Yeah, it's a real challenging piece because on the surface it sounds like, yeah, you work with puppies and kittens all day and life is easy and good. But for most pet professionals, there are a lot of very sad stories that they wrestle with and have to optimize process emotionally in order to be able to show up for the next client in the way that they need.

I know a big focus of your work is compassion fatigue. Can you explain what that is and how you pivoted from working with families, kids, and dogs to pet professionals around that context of compassion fatigue?

So you can argue the elements of burnout and compassion fatigue differently, but most people think of burnout as being related to the circumstances, not enough time, money, energy, whatever to do your job. And if we just fix this one problem, things would be better. Compassion fatigue is really more about the hard stories, the emotional toll, the heartbreak. And so it's not really so much about resources per se. However, if you don't have enough time, money, energy, you're going to be much more at risk for compassion fatigue. So in my personal experience, my specialty is, of course, kids and dogs, which means I had way too many conversations about dog bites to children with parents where, you know, a mother would be crying and she would be saying, is this my fault? Am I a bad mother? Because my dog, who I dearly adore, bit my child. And I would have to walk that line and support her in knowing that she is a great parent and she was doing the best she could with what she knew. And that doesn't mean her dog is necessarily a bad dog. But we may have to make decisions. In some cases, we can retrain and things can be fine. And in some cases, we have to say, for the safety of your dog and your child, maybe we can't maintain this family unit the way you've envisioned it all these years. And those conversations would eat me up. I would just. I was just to the point where I was like, please don't call or email me because I don't want to come. And that piece was very, very hard for me. And I beat myself up about it for quite some time. I should be tougher, I should be stronger, I should be better. And then I realized so many pet professionals are having these really tough conversations with people where there are no easy answers, and that some of us are carrying that weight in a way that isn't healthy.

In addition to the training and the grief of events that have happened, also the grief of losing a pet, the emotional attachments that people have even. I hate to say this, but I know that there may be some people who take anger out on their pets or the pet, their dog isn't doing what they want and they get frustrated, whereas they're burnt out in their own life and work. And so there are a lot of relational dynamics. So many that are going on.

So many. And it's very hard to be a witness to some of those and know that you can't necessarily change it or fix it. You know, I was involved in a court case for five dogs who were taken away. It was an abuse case, and they were, you know, brought the dogs in for an assessment. And it was very difficult because there were the legal ramifications, but there were the moral ramifications. And it was hard for me because I didn't see a dog as property and the court did. So things like that become. In that particular case, the dogs did not go back to the person. So yay. But it was a difficult case, and there are many cases in which the dog does because someone will say, well, it's their dog. And when you are a person involved in that situation and your hands are tied, it. It's grueling. So you need to have ways to.

Help yourself get back up and go back to work the next day without becoming a person who is a lesser version of yourself or a person who has so many walls up around your heart that you can't really show up for the work and you're just sort of like, ugh, all people suck. Occasionally happens. People get to that spot, and that is not a good spot for anyone. So you have to find a way to fill yourself up so that you can really lean into the good and recognize the bad and do everything you can to fix the bad, but also acknowledge the contribution you make, even when it isn't as much as you hoped.

I can imagine. I mean, as you're saying this, the field of social work comes to mind, and I've never. I don't know how they do it. I mean, I'm so admire so much social workers or people who are, let's say, child psychologists or working in a mental institution where every day, the amount of space that they're holding, I mean, even Hospice, I mean, there are all kinds of jobs. It's not just pet professionals. Where. And I can imagine too, with pets, I think. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I would imagine that a lot of pet professionals are deeply empathetic and deeply connected to the animals that they work with and maybe even highly sensitive.

Yes.

And you know, shout out to my husband's sister, Shirin, she, she feeds cats, like stray cats in her neighborhood or, you know, so many people. Because in Beirut there are a lot of strays, probably more than we have in the States, maybe a lot more. And I would imagine part of compassion fatigue is also sometimes a sense of hopelessness or helplessness. How can I help all the animals in all the shelters? We know the pandemic actually cleared out a lot of shelters, which is one of the upsides. But then the downside is pet professionals are probably impacted tremendously in terms of their work. So there's a lot of factors that they're juggling that I never really put myself in their shoes until diving into your work, which I really appreciate.

There are so many factors, and you're right about so many people who are drawn to the profession being the highly sensitive people, the empathetic people, the ones who resonate on a heart connection level. And that is a piece of the struggle. And it is very much like social work and hospice work and all of these other jobs where the work is hard and you know that going into it. But it's important and it's meaningful and it matters. For some career fields, there is an expectation that you will seek out support. So therapists are expected to have therapy. Social workers typically have consultation groups where they work through challenging cases and talk about, you know, what happened and how that, how to support themselves through that. For pet professionals, that has not been a part of the culture until more recently. It is becoming a bigger conversation, particularly with the crisis of veterinary suicide. But it is a new element in our discussions. For many people, they believe they just need to handle it on their own.

This is the first I've heard of veterinary suicide as a growing crisis. What's that about?

It's a tremendously growing crisis. One in six veterinarians has had suicidal ideation. So that doesn't mean they've done something about it, but that they've thought about it. One in six, that is horrific. We don't have the statistics on other veterinary professionals like vet tec or the front desk staff or even non veterinary ones like dog trainers and things like that. I can Tell you, in my work, I have talked to dog trainers who have also experienced suicidal ideation as a result of this. And let me be really clear here. I am not a trained therapist and that is not my role. I am not. That is a job for the trained therapists. What I do is for the people who are one step back. But for the veterinarian, some of the big elements are. Every veterinarian I have spoken to has told me that a client under stress has accused them of being in it just for the money. You're just in it for the money. If you really cared about animals, your services would be more affordable. And the reality of that is that that is the client's behavior deteriorating under stress. They are scared and hurt and angry and worried about their pet. And the way that is manifesting is coming out as anger and hurting others. But the veterinarian needs to live, needs to pay their bills, needs to purchase all of the equipment. And there's a lot of equipment and the medications and the pay, the payroll of this team that support them. And very few veterinarians are wealthy. It sounds like a lucrative career, but. But it isn't a career in which they're like, yeah, give me more money, give me more money. And since every single veterinarian that I have spoken to about this has said, oh, yeah, that happens all the time, we understand why that accusation happens, that someone would yell, you're just in it for the money. But if you are a highly sensitive, empathetic person who went into a career that put you perhaps even hundreds of thousands of dollars into debt to help animals, to have someone fling that at you is deeply wounding. And you feel so misunderstood and hurt. And again, the whole situation of that, no matter how much you do, you will never solve all the problems. No matter how many heartworm treatments you give and how many space surgeries you do and how many vaccinations you provide, there will always be another animal who needs these services. You're never done. So to hear that you're not being seen and acknowledged and appreciated for the work that you're doing is very, very painful. So that is a big element of what's going on. And also the piece of back to back appointments.

Where you might do a euthanasia in one room and then five minutes later, you literally have to turn around and go into another room and go, yay, new puppy. How exciting for you. And you haven't had a chance to process the emotions of being there to witness that event.

You just have to stuff it down and keep moving. And that's been very difficult. I was speaking with a clinic this week. I do programs every other month for a local vet clinic. And I asked them what was better and what was worse since the pandemic, because they, like most veterinary clinics in the United States, are currently doing appointments where the clients wait in their cars and only the animal comes in. And they said, on the one hand, it's easier because they can truly just focus on the animals and have a phone conversation with the human about what they have seen in the. In the animal's behavior or health. But on the other hand, it's much harder because they. They feel a little bit disconnected from the human element of these relationships. So the animal can't tell them, oh, I absolutely adore this or that or the other thing. Whereas the human client can share some that information. And that part's been hard, too. A little bit of a disconnect for them between their work and the people who benefit from it. So they know the animals are benefiting, but they're not having the conversation with the client who's so grateful and so happy or so relieved they're losing some of that.

Thank you. I really appreciate you shining light on this and giving those of us who have pets even more compassion for the professionals who take care of them. And what you described reminds me of medical residency or med students or doctors, where you hear this torturous schedule that they have that's inhumane. And these are the people that we're entrusting our healthcare with. And yet these old legacy systems that lead to complete beyond burnout.

Yeah.

Especially with financial pressures. I live in New York City only as you're describing this, that I can imagine that for so many businesses, from bookstores to veterinary clinics, as the rent raises year over year, there's not enough pets that they could even see that would help them meet the rent that would pay those bills. One thing that I love is that you say self care is the best business plan. And this I did many years ago. I did a blog post called you'd body is your business. That if you're a solopreneur and you don't take care of yourself physically by getting enough sleep, resting when you need to, mindfulness practices, your business as your sole employee, your business will be operating at 50%. So can you talk to us about this orientation of self care as the best business plan?

Sure. It's a little hard to wrap your mind around at first for so many people who are in a career of giving, but it is what you just said, that if you aren't taking care of yourself, you can't show up at your best. And there's so much research to show that people who are happier and healthier make better decisions. They work more efficiently, they work more effectively, they have better cooperative strategies with other people. They are better able to create alliances where we find the middle ground. They have more creative thinking, better problem solving. All of the good things that you bring to the table are better when you take care of yourself. Negative emotions tend to narrow and focus attention, which is awesome because we can identify the problem and see it clearly and only it the problem and only the problem. But they're only valuable for a limited period. Positive emotions are where your creativity and your genius lie. So having a way to focus in, find the problem and then be able to pull out and see many solutions to the problem and not just one is literally what pet professionals do. They're always creatively problem solving because every situation is different. And so they really need to take care of themselves in order to be able to do that. And it isn't selfish, even though most of us have to spend a lot of time convincing ourselves that that is true.

Talk about another legacy story that if you want to run your own business, you got to hustle harder, work longer. You know, isn't it so crazy that we have to undo so much of our programming just to believe that self care is the best business plan? Because nobody puts self care and business in the same boat. I mean, maybe you and I do, but nobody else seems to.

I do only because I ran up against the wall. How did you happen to fall into this pivot?

You know, of course the same. The same which just kept hitting burnout over and over. And I say like, I don't know, of course lazy is just kind of a joking self deprecating. But it's like call me lazy if you want. I don't have the capacity to work myself the way that I see other entrepreneurs working. And I'm not going to do it. I can't do it. It's not sustainable for me. I'm not going to last. It's not joyful. I'm not just not going to do it. So I even in my business, I aim to work 20 to 30 hours a week max. And that to me is a full, beautiful, productive week. I just simply refuse. There's nothing, I'm not a heart surgeon. There's nothing I do that's more urgent than that.

Right? And because you can really lean into those hours that you show up, you're showing up with more creativity and gifts. You're probably producing so much more than if we said, okay, you're gonna work 45 hours this week. You would likely wind up at the end of the week with less content and less quality, even though you had more hours. And that sounds like that's not true. It sounds like you say, no, I would certainly have more, I worked more. But, but realistically you wouldn't because you wouldn't have been able to show up energized and replenished and with new ideas. You know, the break is where the new ideas come.

Yes.

Definitely. And, and, and then not only with the 44 hours, be less productive and less creative, but then I would probably be more short tempered with my family, less patient. You know, there's all those trickle down effects. Do you, in your community Unleashed Resilience, do you talk about things like pricing services for pet professionals who are working sort of either hourly rates or X number of families?

You know, do you talk about that relationship between the business model that individuals have and the ability to create enough time for self care?

I have not yet brought that into Unleashed Resilience. There is a group in the dog world that does that called Dogbiz and they do a pretty good job of helping pet professionals sort of charge what they're worth and what the services are worth. It's a difficult conversation because so many are givers that our tendency is to give as much as possible as cheaply as possible and then find ourselves empty at the end. It's something that we all need to be thinking about in order to be more resilient.

Two of the themes that you've touched on during this pandemic are groundedness and centeredness. I know those were at least two themes for April. Can you explain? I really loved the podcast that you did and listeners. I'll put this in the show notes. I loved the podcast you did on explaining the difference between the two and why each of those two themes are so important. I would love if you could enlighten Pivot listeners on what it means to be grounded and centered.

Well, let's hope I can remember how I said it.

I'll try to help too.

I have had a tendency to use those words interchangeably, but there is a distinction. And grounded are sort of the things that help you feel present in this moment. And awareness this moment, you know, kind of reconnecting you to what is right now. And centered tends to be a little bit more about your values and your Integrity and who you want to be and how you want to be. And it's the place that you can come back to when you're feeling that you've been knocked off balance. So when you're. You're saying, I don't know what to do next, the things that make you feel centered are the things that.

Feel like your truths. So it is important to me to be honest. It is important to me to be kind. It is important to me to be open or present or whatever. Your magic centering emotions and words and thoughts and feelings are so grounded, is kind of keeping us here in the present and recognizing what is both good and bad. And let me tell you, we all can do the bad really well. But leaning in and looking for the good is hugely important, and it's a skill worth developing. And then the centering is what are the touchstones that keep you on your own path? Did I do it right, what I said before?

Yes, I'm very impressed. You've nailed it. Yeah. I love these two distinctions of grounded present. And there was something you'd said, and now I'm forgetting which of the two it falls under, but knowing who you are and where you stand, maybe that's the centeredness. Centered and so not getting knocked off center too much by others as part of resilience. And then the groundedness of not worrying, you know, projecting into the future, ruminating on the past. Just, are you here now? Are you aware and present? And I don't know if it was that episode or another one where I was so thankful. You were very honest and transparent. You were extremely explaining how you just let out this long sigh and your husband asked you what's wrong? And he just said, I don't know. I just need to let out this big sigh. I feel so similar that we're now several months into this pandemic, and it's affected so many of us at varying degrees.

On the subject of resilience, it's like I feel like I've tried to be as resilient as possible, and I have it so good compared to so many others. You know, my husband and I haven't gotten sick, knock on wood. Even though we're living in New York City, work is flowing a little bit at a small fraction of what it was before, and yet I feel some kind of resilience, fatigue. I actually feel like for no apparent reason, I'm just tired. I'm over it. The fireworks that are happening every night on the hour for six nights. I was explaining before we hit Record waking me and Ryder the whole house up again every hour of every night for six nights in a row, and I'm just over it. I'm like, my resilience stores, which were not that high to begin with. I feel I'm a very sensitive person. It's why I wrote Pivot. So what do you do with that? Like, is it just that we all need to let out a sigh and admit that no matter how good we may have it, we're over it already?

Yes. I mean, I think that there's a real value in owning that. Like.

There'S no competition for pain. So we do absolutely have to recognize when people have it worse and do everything we can to help those who have it worse. But that doesn't change the fact that each of us is in a hard spot right now. And for each of us, we are having to deal with uncertainty on a level we've never had to deal with before. And it's exhausting. And there will be times that you feel great, like, I can do this. This is not a big deal. I'm totally fine. And I have. You know, I'm healthy, and I have food available, and I'm comfortable, and life is good. I have nothing to feel bad about. And there are times that you're like, I cannot take one more minute of this. And both of those feelings are absolutely valid. But what we have to find, and the trick of it, is that individually, there are things that will help us to feel better. And it is normal to have those down periods, like every life has good and bad. There's no happy little nirvana we get to go to. Yay. I'm now mindful, and everything is bliss. Unless maybe you're the Dalai Lama. But I think even he says he gets angry at times, which made me happy.

Isn't that funny? We're relieved. Someone asked Penny Pierce, who's one of the favorite co hosts of the Pivot podcast. Someone asked her, penny, do you ever have a bad day? And I think they just needed to hear her say, yes, of course, I have a bad day as well.

Yeah. And I think that there's something really validating about having your experience acknowledged. Like, it is okay to have a bad day. We are having bad days. Many of us are having bad days. This is hard.

But having.

Some idea of what helps you when you're having a bad day is so incredibly empowering. And I. That is the piece that I didn't have years ago, and I've laughed about it. I was like, if you could have Told me four years ago. So there's going to be a pandemic and you're going to be coaching people who have lost their jobs and have no money and they're completely stressed out. And that's going to be your work. What do you think? I would not have thought. Oh, awesome. Yay. And that is honestly my feeling right now. I am so happy and proud to be working with these amazing people who are showing up for their lives and saying right now, this is hard. What can I do to make it better? And if there's any way I can support them, I'm so happy to do that. It's a privilege. The only reason I can do that is because I hit my own really bad period of burnout and compassion fatigue several years before. So I had built up some of my own stores so that I had something to give.

It really is, I can relate so much that it really is an honor to give to givers like it is, you know, and in momentum. It's heart based business owners. That's my private community. And I was thinking, oh my gosh, there's no one I'd rather ride out a pandemic with than a community of heart based business owners and learn and have things be messy. And even with the national protests happening, that's another big wave of emotion and processing hitting all of us in self reflection. And I feel that heart based business owners have a lot in common with pet professionals, which is exactly what you said, which is this heart theme. And to be able to give to somebody who gives so much and is making an impact on countless pets and families is really, it is really rewarding. Even if none of us know how to navigate a pandemic, you know?

Right. And if we all just accept that none of us know how to do this, then there's nobody judging us to say whether we did it right or not. Right.

I'm curious to know, what do you think, what skills help pet professionals? So let's say what animal communication skills help pet professionals as entrepreneurs?

Oh, that's a good question. What animal communication skills help pet professionals as entrepreneurs?

Yeah, like what is it about animal whispering that makes them well positioned? Even if they don't think of themselves as having a strong business background, it's the animals that got them into this business.

That's a fabulous question. And my answer is to be a very good pet professional, you become really good at watching body language for nuance and change. Animals are communicating all the time and you can see tiny little shifts and you will start to trust your inner knowing, your gut instinct of what is right or comfortable, what is enough or too much. And that as an entrepreneur is a huge value of learning to turn inside and not always look for external validation of your decision or your input. But to say, does this feel right to me? Inside I am taking in information and my body and brain are processing it at a level that isn't necessarily conscious and rational thought, but I have an inner knowing of what to do next. So I think that helps entrepreneurs tremendously because we've all had the moment where we're looking for the right answer of how to do our business and our bodies already know.

Oh, that is so good. That is so good. I often wish Ryder could talk. You know, like, I wonder what would he say? What would he be telling me? I wonder too. I bet pet professionals, the non verbal communication is so critical because we words can be misinterpreted or can kind of get in the way. I know Penny would say this too, that words are part of our left brain and this more linear processing and that animals really call on not just unconditional love, but more intuitive communication because they can't use language. So we have to feel into and like you said, read all their micro expressions and micro cues and that that would that sensitivity and intuition and tuning in to another being.

Yes, it must translate to or at least if the person could just shift their attention to say, wow, I can actually use those skills in my dealings with my actual clients.

Yes, yes. It's one of those skills that they don't know that they have until they start to think about it. But they all. Every good pet professional has that because they've needed it. It's not safe to interact with animals if you aren't really paying attention moment by moment to what is going on here. I mean, I did a lot of work with aggressive dogs. It was in my best interest to be watching. But I didn't always have words to articulate exactly why I knew this moment was not the right moment.

And what my body knew, my body knew like, do not move, do not breathe, do not look. Okay, now we are good.

And that having that for ourselves and our business would be.

Incredibly empowering for all of us. Even I need to lean into that a little bit more.

So what you just said made me curious. This may be a tangent from the rest of our conversation, but when you were working with aggressive dogs, how did you build that bridge? How did you take them from in an aggressive heightened state to trusting you?

Well, the first and most Important thing to know for aggression is that it's almost always fear based. That is true of humans as well. So if we can look at what might be making the animal fearful and do what we can to minimize that, that's our first step.

The tendency is to push for behavior, but I always wanted to go for an emotional shift first. So if I don't really care if your dog can, you know, do sit or down or stay or any of the things that we might be having as a skill, I care if your dog can feel safe, comfortable and relaxed. In my presence, safe, comfortable and relaxed is a learning mode. Heightened and aware and alarmed is not a good moment for learning. So for me, the number one priority was always to create safety in whatever way I could. And with most animals, that was minimizing my presence, either with distance or less body language or quieter voice or a different intonation. And of course, food always helps if the animal is able to eat. Sometimes if they're so stressed they can't eat.

Fascinating. I love hearing this. And it does relate to humans so much that safe, comfortable and relaxed is how we all learn best.

And we have a tendency with animals and humans to like dive in and want to change the behavior. But if we can help people feel safe, comfortable and relaxed with us, the behavior will change it also.

I've learned this. I don't have kids, but a friend of mine shout out to Kelly Newsom. She was talking to me about power struggles with small children, with toddlers, and how as soon as you're in a power struggle, there's no winning. It's not going to work, you know, and, and I've seen it with Ryder as well. And I also did like six months prior to him arriving. We, I've read probably 10 plus books, you know, and more, joined a community. And we can, I can so clearly see with him. And I don't know if it's just his personality or I would imagine many animals, but as soon as you're in a power struggle, like, I'm going to clip your fingernails or else. Yeah, it's just not gonna work. As a more curious. Hey, look, you get a piece of turkey every time this clipper is around. How exciting. You know, maybe that's wrong, but it's just not wrong. Okay, so it's like, it's interesting to see how power struggles, they just don't work again, whether with people or with animals. And yet somehow, sometimes our temptation, at least if two people are triggered or the animal is triggered or in a heightened state, if you just. If you skip over those intuitive clues and you try to bulldoze through it, it's just not going to work.

Right. And so in both of those examples, the goal is.

We'Ve gone from being you against me, the parent against the child, or the human against the dog, to finding a way to have us be a team. So you're pulling out the turkey and the clippers and saying, look, I. As a team, we can cut your toenails. There's no enemy here. There's nothing that we have to work against. And the same with the parent where you say, do you want to put your shoes on before your coat or after your coat? Well, I still want you to put your shoes on, but we're giving you a choice. And by having choice, it gives the child some autonomy and mastery. And we all love a little bit of control. And so most kids will be distracted enough by that strategy to go, I'm gonna put my coat on first. Awesome. We'll put your coat on first, and then we'll put your shoes on. And we won. Now we're a team. We're not against each other.

I learned this from Susan Garrett. She has her whole philosophy is, it's your choice. And so it's like, here's me and the turkey and the clippers. It's your choice. If you want to come closer to me and get this piece of turkey, then it's totally. It's your choice. Like, the clippers won't move toward you, you're gonna move toward me.

Exactly.

But it is the choice that I would like for him to choose, you know?

Yes, yes. Susan Garrett will not lead you astray. You'll be just fine there.

It's been awesome, I have to say. I'll put listeners. I'll put the link to recallers. It's her community. And Susan, I mean, your two communities combined is so powerful because you have unleashed resilience and then recallers for the actual working with the dog.

In fact, I wanted to ask you this. Now I just get to ask you publicly on the air, can non pet professionals join Unleashed Resilience? Do you think that it would benefit them, or is it really better suited for only pet professionals? What if you're a pet enthusiast?

That is a great question. I don't have an answer to that at this moment. That's a really good question.

Maybe I'll pilot. I'll test it out, and I'll let you know.

Okay, we'll try it that way.

Yeah. I was gonna say I was almost Gonna sign up. And then I thought, well, I better at least just ask first.

That's a very good question. I hadn't considered that question, so I don't know. Look how awkward I'm being.

No, it's great. Look, now we have curiosity. Now we have a. An open question. Yeah.

So let me tell you just off the top of my head, what I see as the pros and cons.

The pros is that the lessons throughout are applicable to everyone. It doesn't have to be pet professionals. It's about life.

And the. That having a variety of people who adore animals together always fills us up. There's that the cons are that it's also a safe place for people to talk about the struggles of their work and with people who understand the struggles of their work. And so perhaps by having non pet professionals there, they might have to explain pieces that would just be understood otherwise. Does that make sense?

Yes, that makes a lot of sense. And so. Yeah. And I'd want to be respectful of that. I have to say, I love. I've been thinking more and more about how helpful it is to have a very specific focus, which I don't have. You know, pivot is so broad, and I often struggle, even with this podcast of trying to be all things to all people. I just love how over the years you have narrowed down to resilience and caring for pet care professionals and your podcast as well.

It's.

It's like, what's the phrase in online marketing? The riches are in the niches. And I don't even mean financial riches, but you must. It must be rewarding to be able to get so specific and clear at this intersection that you've chosen.

It really has been. I've been surprised to realize that this is the work I feel called to do. And that is so.

Scary and empowering and exciting all at the same time. And so things like yearbook Pivot were helpful to me because it was hard for me to make a shift, because who am I if I'm not a dog trainer? I kind of struggled with that piece of, like.

I've always been a dog trainer. I don't know who I am if I'm not. But to have the opportunity to grow and continue learning, it was very helpful to me to have that.

I'm so happy to hear that. And it makes me so overjoyed to know that because the work you're doing now is so important as well. And I think so. There's so many fewer people, if not just you, and you Alone doing exactly this. And it's really cool to hear your pivot story of. And by the way, I didn't even know you had read the book before we came onto this show. So that's really special to hear. But it's great to see how your Venn diagram overlaps. You know, caring for the families and their dogs and then doing dog training and then zooming out once again and saying, who are the other people doing dog training? Look, I'm hitting burnout with this. I wonder if I could zoom out and support the people who are supporting so many others, which is why it's so brilliant what you're doing. And I'm so happy for you and this recent pivot.

Well, thank you. It took me, it was hard for me. I actually, when I zoomed out, I ran toward anything other than pet professionals because I knew how much pain was in the community that I was afraid to go back to it. So I did a number of years doing sessions for government clients like I did the FBI and FEMA and the DEA and the Morgue Virginia medical Examiner's office. And I loved all the sessions, but I didn't feel any passionate connection to the audiences.

And what were you teaching them?

Resilience. Resilience, communication. A lot of business related things. Some of them were broader teamwork, you know, But I just kept getting pulled back to the pet professionals and it was, it was a number of years that I was kind of flailing because I was afraid to come back to the pet professionals because I knew how to.

How much I had struggled with burnout and compassion fatigue. And I was afraid that if I went back in, I might go under. And that has not been the case even a little bit. This is the work I'm meant to be doing. Wow.

When did you make it official? So how long have you been all in?

Probably three years. Three years now. Two and a half or three years where I've really been focusing with the pet professionals.

And isn't that interesting that we can have so much fear of going all in and then now we have a worst case scenario. A pandemic has hit your community and impacted them quite a lot. And it's amazing to hear that you still would choose it.

And it's still absolutely 100%. I love the sessions. I, I get as much out of them or more maybe than the participants do. It's a wonderful opportunity for us to all be human together and all get a little bit stronger together. There's something really powerful about being in community with others.

Yes.

And especially.

When they're so. Can relate so deeply. That's why it's so special what you're creating. And your story reminds me how sometimes pivots are very difficult because we have to say no to something good. Like you had these big brand organizations and government groups that you were speaking to and it's good, good with a capital G. But it's not your calling and it's hard. It's hard to say no to that. And it's hard to have this heightened, this calling and then. And then the fears that come with it. But I agree with you. It is so powerful once you can create community around who you are at your core and just helping this group in the way that you're doing.

Khalid, this is just so wonderful to get to know you better and have you on the Pivot podcast. I'm so thankful to hear your Pivot story, the work that you're doing. Can you let listeners know where they can find you and keep in touch?

Sure. My website is colleenpilar.com and the books that I have written are all about kids and dogs, but there are three different ones. There's one for parents called Living with Kids and Dogs Without Losing youg Mind, one for kids called Puppy Training for Kids, and one for pet professionals called Kids and A Professional's Guide to Helping Families. And so all of those are available at, you know, bookstores, Amazon, wherever. I would be happy to connect with anyone at any time.

And we also have your Unleashed Resilience. That's the community we've been talking about. Yes, the Unleashed podcast, which is fantastic. I highly recommend it. And do you still have the free community resilient pet pros?

Yes, I do still have the free community, resilient and thriving pet professionals. Okay. Yes.

Amazing.

Wow.

Thank you so much, Colleen. Thank you. And thank you again, Regina, who put us in touch. I'm so happy to know you and to know about your work.

Well, thank you, Jenny. This has been really lovely talking with you today.

Likewise. Thanks everybody for listening.

Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the Pivot Podcast. Make sure you don't miss an episode or my insider tips and templates by signing up for Pivot List, a curated twice monthly newsletter where I share, share the inside scoop on what I'm reading, watching, listening to and the latest tools I'm geeking out on. Sign up@pivotmethod.com pivotlist get show notes from this episode@pivotmethod.com podcast and connect with me on Twitter Ennyblake.

Remember, build first, then your courage will follow. Hasn't it always.

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