242: Nahko—Take Your Power Back + "Love Letters to God" Live

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See terms of Venmo Me Stashterms. What's next? This is a question we're all having to ask and answer more frequently. I'm Jenny Blake, your host of the Pivot Podcast and author of Pivot. The only move that matters is your next.

Notes from this episode. Visit pivotmethod.com podcast if Change is the only constant, then let's get better at it. Here we go.

Hello my friends. I am so delighted, overjoyed, exploding with glee to introduce some of you to one of my favorite artists of all time, Naqo. Some of you may already be fans of his music. Maybe you're obsessed like I am. In any case, I wanted to record an intro to this episode for two reasons. One, to tell you this is as awkward and as nervous as I get. Oh my goodness. I've been podcasting for five years. There's a small handful of people where I was truly nervous, like heart pounding out of my chest, preparing all day and the day prior to come to the interview. And so that's been the case here. I even clipped some of the pre record outtakes. I'm gonna call them bloopers and they're gonna go at the very end of the episode. So if you listen till the end, you get to hear me in my most awkward, nervous podcasting glory. But it's a good sign because it means for me, when I'm this nervous, whether it's for a speaking gig or a podcast interview, it means that I have actually gone out of my way to reach, to stretch out of my comfort zone, to try to get in touch with one of my heroes. And in this case, after first emailing Nako's in 2018, they said yes. In 2020 we had a really chill, laid back conversation. We jump all over the place. I was so grateful that he made the time to do this interview. He has a lot going on and it was like talking to an old friend. AKA was having toast. It was a morning for him. You'll just be sitting there shooting the breeze with us. I hope you enjoy. And if I'm introducing you to him and his music for the first time Holy cowabunga, what an exciting day. Please, when you're done listening to this interview, go look up Narco and Medicine for the People on Spotify and have a blast. I have so many favorite songs. I'm going to put a couple links in the show notes, but just enjoy that and I hope you do listen till the very end because he so generously offered to play one of my favorites live in the interview at the very end. I have to tell you listeners, this almost made my heart explode because here I am, someone whose music I've listened to almost daily for five years to get a one on one concert. At the end I almost painted. I mean, I truly felt like five years of podcasting had led me to be present for this exact type of moment. And it's one of those priceless benefits that I'm always talking about podcasting that it's not just about the numbers, it's not just about the stats, it's not just about how many listeners and how much money you're making and what is it doing for the business. This moment of Nako playing one of my favorite songs live, essentially one on one, and knowing I get to share it back out with all of you, it's just mind blowing. So I hope you enjoy. And before we even get into the interview, I want to tell you a little more about his official bio. I don't give too much of this when I introduce him because we were kind of just riffing before we even hit record. So we just jump. You'll hear. You'll kind of jump right into the middle of the conversation with us. A little bit More About Him Nako is an Oregon native born mix of Puerto Rican, Native American and Filipino bloodlines who considers himself a citizen in service to the planet. Disillusioned by the world around him and inspired by vagabond Americana musicians and storytellers like Conor Oberst and Bob Dylan, Naco left home as a teenager in search of adventure and self discovery. Armed with stories, a guitar and a fierce set of ideals, he set out to bridge the cultural gaps dividing his own psyche. He began producing a public musical journal of his journey toward personal, spiritual and social healing, and thus Medicine for the People was born. Nako describes his music as a mix of hip hop and folk rock with a world message and his latest album, Take youe Power back debuted on May 15th and hit the Billboard charts for number one emerging artists, number three alternative album, and number five top albums. Without further ado, I bring you Nako.

What do you do when you're interviewing one of your heroes, I don't know the answer, but that's my guest today. His music has been the soundtrack to everything important in my life these last five years. Solo journeying in Bali, writing, and then launching Pivot, my most recent book, meeting my husband and getting married, navigating this pandemic. Nako is an artist, a seeker, a storyteller, and a medicine man with his soulful music. And one thing I love about his music is that it's at the intersection of deep personal introspection with incredible activism and social justice. Nako, welcome to the show.

Thank you for having me on the show today. It is a pleasure to be here. I'm surprised you're not talking to me since I'm around you all the time with all these things. I've been doing all this stuff with you, and it's like you don't get tired of me.

You know, it's amazing that I don't. I mean, it would be embarrassing. I was actually trying to find my Spotify listen stats. It would just be completely humiliating if I told you how many listens I truly Nako. There's a playlist, it's called Nako with a little heart emoji, like a nerdy carrot and then a three. And I've had it for many years. Every time an album comes out, I just add to it. And then I even found all the one offs that aren't on your album.

But if you go on YouTube, that's where the deep dive really happens. Because when I first started writing songs and recording them on a camera, YouTube had just, you know, come out.

The video. The video I love on YouTube is I think you're singing black as night in your truck. I mean, maybe that one's just like so mainstream now because I think it's one of your more popular videos. But I love that video.

Thank you.

It's so chill. It's like. And that's what I love about your. You've been doing Nako's been doing Sunday services, performing music every Sunday since the pandemic started. You just jumped right on that. But I love how you're willing to just not willing. It's your medicine. As you say, you play for yourself as much as for others. But I love the acoustic side as much as the albums themselves.

Thank you. I think I'm going to actually recreate that music video, but do Skin in the Game off the new album because it's the same tuning. And I was like, oh, it can be cool. To, like, do like a, you know, however many years later, like a 10 years later, like, same kind of vibe, you know, similar style of song, you know, and then do like a VH1 pop up. VH1 pop of it does need to come back.

I remember VH1 pop ups, like, with all the fun facts. And then.

Yeah, right.

Why don't you do that?

I was obsessed with those videos. Like, whatever happened to those things? Like, yes, right.

And then. You know what? You need to introspect.

Let's go.

When you did the roast and people did all those roast images of you on Instagram.

Oh.

Well, I forget how I approached that, but I was like, I want to see everybody's, like, memes of me or whatever.

Like, I was dying.

Like, I.

Where did. How did you even get the idea to do a roast? And then how many. Do you know how many submissions you got for that?

I forget because I didn't really. I just put it on my story and I was like, you know what? Show me your best memes of me. Or something like this. I can't remember what I said, but there was a handful of folks that were consistently sending me stuff, and it was hysterical to, like, just, you know, see people's creativity. I mean, the nacho libre and like, oh, my God, I love the one of me in yoga pants dancing with Fallon.

Me as an avatar. Like, I don't know. It was just bizarre. It was classic E.T. as E.T.

Yes. Oh, I don't know if you made the E.T. one. That one's so funny. And then there's one because I think they all use the same photo, right? Yeah, I only just saw it in passing, but yeah, and then there's one like, you're, like, deep in reflection, and it's like, I just farted or something. Like, how did that work?

Yeah, it's like, hey, girl.

Yeah.

We'Re not going. We're not going there. Or, oh, yeah, some. I'm not gonna be there for your birthday or something like that. I don't know. It's just some random. But like, yeah, people are creative. And that photo is just like. Because it's out there. I was like, you know what?

I hate this photo, and I hate it so much that I'm gonna let everyone just grab it and do something hilarious with it.

See, that's such a great strategy. What don't you like about the photo?

Well, you know, for me, it's like, the easiest way to, like, get out of something where you're like, oh, my God, I can't believe they use that photo for that thing. Why? There was a girl that actually tattooed that photo on her arm. My gosh.

Do you get a lot of that? Do you get a lot of people tattooing?

I was like, I don't know about that. That would.

That's intense. Like, that's intense.

I mean, I wanted to be excited for her because I didn't want her to think, of course, you know, of course I was like, that's so cool. You know, But I was like, I would never, ever tell you to do that. If you ask me, you should do it.

I mean, I think it's, you know, at the heart of it, it's endearing because, you know, it really means something to them. But, yeah, I mean, it's kind of strange when somebody touches their face, your face to your face to their bodied soul.

You know, what I like about this story of making a roast out of the photo that you're over is it's like taking your power back. So even to the album theme of the latest albums called Take youe Power Back. And this is a simple, subtle way, like, here's one photo that annoys me. It's out there. Let's do a roast about it. And it's plays on your silly side as well, which is. I appreciate that, like, you have such a just lighthearted sense of humor about things. And that roast, I mean, it's just.

Classic, but it also, like, it actually also helps you let go of the, you know.

Yes.

The whole feeling of needing to worry about it because, you know, I don't know. That's just how I work, though. Like, I'm down for people to laugh at me because of something that I think is also really funny. And I'm like, yeah, it's not. Go for it.

Take youe Power Back, the new album is set to come out May 15, 5, 15, 20. And I had been counting down, by the way. As soon as the date was set, I had the reminder in my phone. And how could you have known? First of all, the title of the album, take your Power Back is so prescient for the times that we're in. It's so necessary now, especially with a country in protests and standing up for Black Lives Matter. And even when I started reaching out to your team, I had emailed over a year ago, but then I followed up, but it was still pre. So many of these protests that have been happening, and yet it builds on your previous albums. So much of your work is about activism and integration and doing the work from the inside out and showing up for that work to change society. And when you set the album day, I'm sure you could. Of course, no one can predict that a pandemic is about to hit and you're gonna cancel your tour. So it must be the longest you've even been home for a stretch. I would imagine almost.

I was 2018 into 2019 over that winter period. I was actually home for six months.

As we were preparing and writing.

For this album. But.

Yeah, I mean, this is certainly unprecedented to be home. I was meant to kind of be home a little bit, you know that there was. There was no major tour we had planned into the fall. And so there was like, you know, a couple trips here and there. I was meant to go to Chile and play in Lollapalooza and do a solo two week run in. In Europe and some other festivals. But it wasn't like. It was crazy, crazy busy. We were sort of saving ourselves for the summer and the fall. But yeah, I mean, it's pretty interesting. You can't write this, you know, you can't.

It just, it is what it is. It just literally came out at the right time. Like literally to support what's happening and fortify a space within our community and community abroad that's. That's discovering the medicine to like.

You know, have something to maintain and hold them, cradle them in that way. And it's fascinating. I mean, yeah, certainly I've had some friends be like, dude, how did you know? I was like, dude, I didn't know, you know.

So.

It'S fascinating to witness. I mean, literally, I think that the timing.

It's crazy to say this, but I think that the situation in the world right now is actually.

It helps bring this music to people in a bigger way because they're either at home and, and they have more of a. They're on their phones, there's whatever. And they're looking for stuff. Now people are in the streets and they're like discovering, you know, people, speakers, teachers, you know, protocols, education materials. Like, you know, people are looking into public records and laws and budgets and you know, who's sitting in what seats on at the council of Whatever. And like, you know, who are these organizations and la, la. And they're discovering new music, you know, and that's where we're like, we've been like, hey, we're over here. Yep, yep, you know, been here, you know, Right.

It's one of the things that, that makes your music so unique is that it's high vibration it's uplifting, and yet it covers so many important issues. So it's not that the lyrics are all only. Only the good, but there's something very spiritually connected about your music and at the same time, these deep calls to action. So I could imagine for the movements and for what's going on now and again, it's been a through line through your entire career is activism for indigenous communities and for the planet. But I just love. I think it's so rare. There's so much music these days where.

The lyrics don't. Don't speak to the heart the way that yours do. And I think that's part of what's so needed right now. Is this heart based again? I don't know. I don't even know how to describe it. Like, heart based, spirit based.

Well, there's. There's a way to be able to. There's a way to be able to speak about hard things, things that hurt, things that are painful, things that are frustrating, things that are angry, you know, but also be able to celebrate them, you know, And I think that's part of what I've learned from just discussing take your power back and.

Considering what it. What it does. Each album has a thing, you know, it's like a book, and it does a thing. It's like Hoko. Hoka, the last band album was very like.

The way we produced it is like, very guitar heavy. Very. A lot of songs that were just like.

Like, we're gonna. We're. We're making the charge, you know, and.

And this album is so much more about going inward and holding the hurt and. But then rejoicing in it, you know.

And not staying in that, acknowledging it. And then, you know, so there's like a.

It's. It's. It's a mature experience to, like, come through and be like, all right, cool. We're going to reclaim and rebuild. You know, there's always an alternate alternative to my songs. There's always another version.

Love Letters to Dogs.

Yes.

Love Letters to Dogs.

I love it. I would love a Love Letters to Dogs. There's another good video for.

The new YouTube. I mean, you can have. We'll send you clips of our dogs. I mean, this would go viral in a second. House is terrible, and dog is God spelled backwards. So it still works. I mean, dogs are the best. You don't have to tell me twice. Authors will often say, whatever title or theme that you choose for your book, kind of watch out, because the universe is going to give you that lesson. Ten Times over, in order for you to be the messenger for that in a way. And I wonder if you experienced the same thing with your albums or let's say with this one. Take youe Power Back. Did you feel that the process of making the album itself called you forth in some new way? I mean, not to mention what's happening now since it's out.

Great question. And absolutely, you know, as we were as. I have this huge nine foot whiteboard in the middle of my living room and that thing's been used for a long time for different things, actions. And I had probably like 20 different titles I was working with for the album and.

There are some good ones on there.

This was a whole different experience too because like before when I put out the other albums, like, I already knew immediately what it was going to be. Right. But I was giving myself and I had a feeling Take youe Power Rock would be the one. But I really wanted to flesh out any other ideas that potentially, you know, could be better or fit better. Because still at the same time, like I was still writing songs and did not know just yet, like which songs are gonna make it. And based on which songs, you know, fit together, you go, okay, well what's the umbrella that they're all under? You know.

And.

Take your power Back. Just kept raising his hand like I'm, I am the one. And.

I had already been going through. If we're gonna. This is. This is on the astrology tip. Like I had already begun my Saturn return in 2017. And. And for people who don't know that is. It's essentially there's just. It's a moment of. It's like a cycle in your life that you continue to come back to something like every 12 years or something like that.

29.

So it's like 29. It can come on early when you're 27, but it's really 28, 29, 30. And you sort of exit out at 31.

Yeah. Continue. Tell us about it.

For me, it just ripped my whole life apart. And then it kind of. Saturn is the disciplinarian. He's a keeper of time and boundaries and structures. So any structures that need to fall away, the Saturn return will do that. And I felt. I call it 2013 was my apocalypse year. The rug kept getting pulled from under my feet. Pulled from under my feet, like everywhere. I tried to stand for an entire year. And I remember I was not even. I had studied Buddhism for a while, but I was not a spiritual person. I did not live in a way that was just completely surrendered to the divine. And it was my Saturn return that toward the end of 2013, I thought, I can't live like this. And I read a book called Outrageous Openness that you would love if you haven't already read it. And I started to just surrender things and surrender and turn it over and turn it over and just throw up my hands and just say, I'm not in control here. And it was such a powerful moment. And it's like. And then one day the pressure lifted and I see what you did there. I see how you turn the tables. But one day the pressure lifted and I'm like. I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop, but I really had. It had restructured me from the inside out. I have to give a credit to my friend Ari, because the first time I heard you play, I had gone to Bali in January 2015, and I was staying in Ubud and I'm taking Denise Payne's yoga class every day. I know, I think, you know, Denise and Ari said, hey, there's this band Nako playing Naco in Medicine for the People. You should really go. It's two hours away. I think it was in Changi. What is it, man? Yes. I was like, am I going to get a car and go two hours by myself to see a band I've never seen or heard? And I waited till the very last minute to decide and I went. And then the rest is history.

It was. It was so powerful. I then listened to your music on repeat for the rest of the month. I was in Bali. And the Darkest Night album is so good for that. It almost sounds like you made half the music involved, Ollie and. Yeah, so that's my Saturn return.

Yeah, so that. So was it extremely painful, etc. That whole experience?

Yes.

So was it, Was it. How long did yours take?

Oh, I would say three years of really tough. And then.

Yeah, that was. Three years is me too.

So tell me, how. How old are you now? I know you just had a birthday.

34.

34. Okay. So you're coming through it. You're coming out the other side. Basically.

Yeah. This year was like.

Wow.

Listeners, you just made a fish swimming ocean or maybe a baby coming out.

It was a little baby bear emerging from the darkness of the ocean.

Yeah, it was pretty hard. I mean, the last three years have been pretty. Pretty intense.

And. Yeah, no joke. So I think that.

The album title was, you know, I was already going through it at that point.

And so. And I was writing a lot of the songs that are on the album now during that time too. So.

But just like you, it was like everything fell apart. Like there's. And then there was always that one piece of saving grace. Like, even this house. I got it like, right as things started to like, fall apart where I was ending a relationship, I was ending a contract with the manager, I was like. But it was all like, messy, you know, none of it was. None of it was smooth.

And.

So it triggered a lot of things, you know. But this home now, my cancer rising is like so happy because I get to like ground in and be home and shit, you know.

It's a beautiful home, by the way. So, listeners, if you're on audio, it's like floor to ceiling windows on one wall of the house and just so much greenery in the background. And I can tell it just seems like it must be so grounding for you and even your home during this. But right away you started broadcasting Sunday service on Instagram and Medicine Tribe tv, your interview series. I love what you're doing. I love seeing it with the video and the split screen. Like you just figured that out so well.

Oh, yeah. Well, it was crazy because, like, I, like, right away after when quarantine started, it was like I knew that I needed to just play.

Yeah.

Music for folks. So I started doing the Sunday service. And then I think it was like a month in, I was talking to one of my friends and I was like, this is a really dope conversation. I was like, I bet people would like to be able to hear us talk about this. And she was like, yeah, we should do that. And I was like. And then I started like, you know, trying to figure out what it was going to be called and like, all this shit.

Yeah, it's been, it's. I've been learning so much just through those conversations though, and like, like doing my homework on people and being like, okay, what are the questions I need to ask? And there's no problem. Like, it's such a weird. It's such. It's. It's fun. I have a good time with it.

That's so cool. How has it been for you interviewing people? Like, I know you're usually the one on the mic just riffing at your shows.

Yeah.

But how has it been interviewing others?

Oh, it's been so fun. I mean, like.

I was talking to my friend Shailene and right as we went into quarantine and we're having this, like, deep talk or whatever, and I was like, yo, this would be so tight for. I think this would be. I think people would like to hear this conversation because it's actually, like, very raw and authentic and, like, you know, a perspective that could be useful to folks in this time. And she was like, yeah, that sounds cool. And then I hashed the idea out a bit more with my manager and, like, and came up with the idea of, like, okay, maybe it's just not a podcast, per se, right? It's just like anywhere from 15 minutes to 45 minutes, you know, and just.

You know, have some questions, but, like, also just get perspectives from folks in a. Just regular chat, kind of like we're having now, you know.

And see what transpires, you know. And, like, I'm pretty good. I can, you know, I can push the conversation if it needs to go somewhere or whatever. Right.

But, yeah, you know, so most of the people I've interviewed now, because it's been like, I think I'm on episode 266 next Tuesday with Linda Perry from.

Yeah.

Yeah. So most of them have been my friends, but then there's a few so far that have been.

New meeting on. On the screen, like Aloe Black, I hadn't met before, and I talked to him, Kosko, and I haven't talked. I've never met Linda Berry. And then.

Ross Golan as well. He's a producer and writer.

How is it interviewing. I don't know if you would consider Aloe Black or Linda Perry heroes necessarily, but how is it for you interviewing these people you've never met but might really respect, admire?

It's wild because, like, I have to vibe the. You know, it's like I'm looking at them, so I'm just trying to gauge the energy, you know, and, like, figure out are we going to be silly or are we going to be, like, deep, you know, and, like. So I'll try to be formal at first, you know.

And just. I'm just. Look, I'm just feeling it out, you know, I got some questions. I'll be like.

But then at the same time, I just be myself and, you know, see if also, you know how it is. You can, like, throw a couple questions out there and if they're, like, into it, you know, you can keep pushing.

But you can kind of tell if someone's not interested in whatever. They're just kind of like, oh, you know, like, whatever, you know. So.

It'S a. It's a. It's definitely a trick to interview someone and. And have some set questions, but also be open to however things need to flow, you know, if you could interview.

Anybody, who would it be?

One person definitely I would want to interview.

Is dead or alive.

Well, I mean, alive in the sense, like, maybe you'll actually get to talk to them, but you could give me Dead or Alive. I'll take both.

I want to. I want to interview Conor Oberst.

Okay, good one.

Yeah. He's like, one of my heroes.

Do you think you'll keep this series going? Like, I know it's. It'd be harder once you're back on the road and. Or turn it into an official podcast.

Yeah, I mean, it's hard to say. You know, like, people have asked me if I'm going to continue doing Sunday service, and I'm like.

I mean, at least for the foreseeable future, because I'm not going to be going anywhere, so. Right. But, yeah, I mean, I could see it turning into an official podcast at some point. You know, I, like.

You have a very chill vibe as an interviewer. Like, you just seem so comfortable with everybody. I know some you've known for a while, others are brand new. But it's like. It's just very natural. It's not even like an interview. It's really. You genuinely achieve somebody feeling like they're sitting there.

Thank you.

Shooting the breeze with you.

Thank you. Yeah, it's the. It was the art of listening, right?

Yeah, that's true. I like it. Wow.

Five years in, I blew my own mind with that. I was like, wow, the art.

Wow. Yeah.

I mean, I guess that really is what it's about because we're just here, we're holding something space for some dialogue to happen, and we just want this other person that's, you know, being interviewed to just, you know, open up and share.

That's right.

What's going on.

Be in that moment.

And then now.

Yeah, be here meowing later.

Meowing later. And, yeah, as you would say, here and now.

I forgot it so much.

That's hysterical. Thank you for bringing that back. I totally forgot. It's okay. Yeah.

Be here, Hyau.

Be here. Yeah, that's what happens. I'll start writing something and then I'll make crack myself up. And I'm like, yeah, fuck it. We'll just leave it.

Yeah. My friend Alexandra says, go with your hut, which is your heart and your gut. So go with your hut and be here. Yeah.

Because if you did gut and heart, the opposite. It'd be like Garth, Right? Or Gort.

Gort, Which. Which wasn't that the name? Did you watch Silicon Valley on hbo?

I Never did.

Oh, there's a really nerdy programmer in the last season. I actually think her name is Gort or something close to that.

See, she already knew what was going on.

That's right.

I have such a crazy day today. You do? Because. Well, it's just my last day because I'm driving down to LA tomorrow.

And.

You can see it's gorgeous out.

I know.

And when it's nice out, it's so hard for me to be inside.

I know what you mean. And it's hard to be on screens.

Oh, yeah. Well, it's just part of the job. Right. Right now, especially. But, yeah, it's like packing. I gotta take my horses out. I have two horses and then.

You have horses?

I take them out on Fridays. Yeah. And.

And what are their names?

Foxfire and Jet.

Wow.

Yeah, they. They came with those names. I've had Jet for five years. And. Wow. Whoa. Really? Oh, my God. No, that's Four years, maybe. Wow. I don't know. Jet I've had for a couple years now.

Dad's here. I guess we're gonna go out for a ride.

Once they get out of the barn, though, they're really stuck. But they're just like, what are we doing?

Do they have very distinct personalities? Because I'm not as familiar with a horse. They do, yeah. So what are they like?

I look at them as both. I look at them as both having.

Two very distinct aspects of myself. Because I'm sure as your dog will develop, you'll be like, damn, My dog is kind of like, yeah, because I'm sure you've had animals before this dog. Right.

He's the first one I've had in New York. I've been in New York nine years. So I grew up with an Australian shepherd, Patches, till she was 16.

Patches.

Patches, yeah. The Hatter's in seventh grade. And, like, all my life milestones. And. Yeah, she was great.

Where did you grow up?

San Francisco and Palo Alto, and then I went to UCLA for undergrad, and all the while just itching to get out to New York. So now I'm here. But, yeah, Ryder's my first dog, like, as a real adult and in the city.

And you'll just. And you'll see that he'll develop characteristics that you're just like, this is so bizarre, you know.

The similarities, you know, that they share. And with horses, like, they are, yeah, very, very distinct characters once you get to know them. Foxfire is like. He's like. He's a Percheron Mix, Thoroughbred, black. He's got gorgeous hair. He's like. But he always kind of wears an emo style, so he's always kind of like. He's like. He's like, yeah.

And then. Does he do a flip? He must.

Yeah. He's like. He's like, all I give a shit about is eating.

And sleeping.

But I guess I could go for a ride.

And then, you know, and he's. And he's very alpha, and he's very territorial, and he's very. He's like. He's. Anywhere he goes. He's the. He's the. He's the herd leader. He puts everybody in their place, which I'm. It's always a little bit embarrassing when you, like, introduce your dog to other dogs. And that dog's like, I'm dominant. All you serve me, you know? Or like. Or like, I'm gonna pick which ones I like, and you guys are gonna follow me around the pasture. You're gonna trot, trot, trot. You're gonna. You're gonna. You're gonna. I'm gonna eat that and you're not, and you're gonna move. And, you know. And he's like. I'm just like, bro, stop. The dick man.

Talked about this.

Talking about. Yeah. He's like, what are you talking about? This is my. That's what I do, bro. What's up? And Jet, I. I got Foxfire up in Shasta.

While we were doing a salmon restoration project, and we were doing a big ride around Lake Shasta, and we did that for a couple years in a row. And then when I moved Foxfire to Topanga.

We found Jet and we had to pay. We had. I had him there for a year, Foxfire there for a year. And then I was gonna move him up. Up here to Oregon, and they were like, gonna sell Jet or something, and they said, do you want to take him? And I was like, this is how people collect horses, right? Because somebody gave me Foxfire and then they. They were like, do you want to take this other horse? I mean, I'm sure Fox far like a friend. Jet is a paint. And he is.

He's got two different colored eyes, very pink nose. He's a little doopy. He's like. But he's. So. As a writer, he's such a good ride.

He's.

He's a. He's a retired cowboy horse, so he knows what he's doing.

And he's very responsive. But he's also kind of like.

He's got a little bit of nervous energy.

And he's a little special, you know, so those are the two sides of me. A little special, a little derpy and super alpha and like very emo.

A leader. And like a leader taking charge reluctantly. I don't know if between you and Trevor and it's funny, my friend who's an astrologer here in New York, studied with Deborah, Aquarius Sun, Sag, Moon and Cancer Rising. It's like. Oh, it just maps back to so many of your songs and lyrics and the music. It's so cool to see. It's like the sag is like adventurous spirit that's. And the spiritual side and the cancer is like those home song like Tous Piez, you know, like these like really grounded. The acoustic and yeah.

The home message. The idea of home is reverberates across so much and like, you're absolutely right. Like, it's been fascinating for me even just to be like, oh, geez, I can tell what sun I am too.

Yeah. And then speaking of Aquarius sun, before we hit record, I told you I was going to ask you about aliens.

Oh, yes. Thank you.

And Nago's face, my favorite part, completely lit up. Yeah. Now we have so much excitement. Okay. You are the third person a. That I've heard talk about aliens recently. But specifically I've had very smart and very intuitive friends who said, first it's the pandemic, then it's the protest, then it's going to be aliens. Open prompt. Narco. Talk to us about aliens. What's. How'd you get into this? When are they coming?

Well, the digger. The digger. The deeper you dig the digger, you dig the digger, you deep. You'll. You come to a realization that they're not even aliens. They're just other people.

And they are. There are multiple races, multiple species of interdimensional beings. And.

You know, I think it's difficult and it has been difficult over the years to digest some of this information and be open to it. Because if you have the premise and understanding that you've been lied to about literally everything in your entire life and that the illusion we live in is also an illusion, this illusion of, you know, America's illusion of, you know, freedom and democracy and.

And the. The illusion of capitalism, even, you know, like this whole system that is completely built off of lies and cheating and genocide and.

Isn'T. Doesn't really serve anybody except for a few wealthy individuals.

You can open up to, you know, the possibilities of other life, other life forms, other beings, other dimensional fields, the quantum realm and it doesn't have to be scary. It can definitely be.

Nerve wracking just because it's so vast and it's so something that's so unknown.

And you think, well, are they evil? And do they have, you know, bad intentions? And like, you know, because that's how our minds think. We think it's just black and white like that, you know, and what we see in the movies. Exactly. So, you know, I don't think that your friends are far off from thinking, well, what could get worse? How can 2020 get any worse? You know, And.

I started to dig into this kind of stuff, probably actually in a deeper way, right as my Saturn return began.

And I started hanging out with some folks that were really deep into it, whether they were, you know.

Mediums or like.

Astrologers, you know, or like.

Mystical folks, you know, people that, like, do. I mean, I'm already in the healing circuit, right, in that sense, in that community. And so it was only a matter of time before the people that were really involved in.

This kind of work also this kind of teaching.

Started introducing me to stuff. And I went down the rabbit hole and just did my own research and started to put pieces together and go, oh, okay. There's way more to this than I was. I could understand.

So.

I wouldn't, I wouldn't put it past.

The government or the shadow governments to.

You know, they've already told us for years and years and years who our enemies are. They have told us that they are a foreign enemy with weapons of mass destruction. They are the, you know, terrorist group. They are a dictator, dangerous dictator. They are, you know.

This or that. They're now, it's a virus. This is our enemy, you know, and it wouldn't surprise me if at some point to fund the Space Force.

Publicly with public approval.

And to divert the attention from something else that's going on.

It would be smart and a war tactic to create an unknown enemy that the public has been groomed for through Hollywood, through.

Programs that have faked abductions, that have faked sightings, that continue the propaganda. Because as long as they can confuse and control the narrative.

Then they too feel that they have the control because they don't know fully either. And so.

You know, there's been a counterintelligence movement for, since, I mean, before the Kennedys, you know, to adapt and control the narrative. Because.

The military industrial complex is a complex and a, and a patriarchal complex wherein, you know, the first foot forward isn't to.

Make peaceful contact. The first foot forward is to make sure that we are dominant and that we have the dominant hold and that we have the dominant technology because we're afraid of someone else.

Being in control, because we can't understand them. And so it's been fun to, like, get to know folks like Dr. Greer, who has been teaching.

Meditation.

Protocols to make peaceful contact. Because from what we can understand is that these beings and other relatives.

Are. Their technology is based on consciousness, which means that they can. Through the quantum entanglement of the web that exists between stars and planets and the universe. This is how they travel, and this is how they communicate.

You know.

Through that, we. We can.

Not just access, like.

Their technology through meditation and projecting that, but we could also.

Create.

Peaceful contact.

It's interesting. I love hearing. Love hearing you just describe all this. I know a big theme of Take the Power Back is recognizing our colonized mind. And you being part Native American, like, you've been an advocate for so long of just taking the. Acknowledging the land that we're on, acknowledging the foundations of this country. Like, none of this is new to you. I love hearing alien is such a marketed word, even. But I know you've done so much with, like, ancestors and guides and probably have muses, and there's so many angels. I mean, there's so many unseen beings. I know we're almost up on time. And so you. You said it was okay to ask you. Before we hit record. I would love if you could play us a song specifically, Love Letters to God. And maybe you could just tell us.

To dogs.

Yeah. Love Letters to Dogs. The reason that I chose this one, to me, it's. There's so many. Naqwa has so many gems, but this one in particular is so fitting for the times that we're in. And I'm wondering if you could just give us the brief background on it before you play. Yeah, I know there's a story to it.

Yeah, well, it's. It's a short story, but it's always it I wanted to tell because it actually was written in Bali.

And.

It was just one of those things that, like.

Almost like a word vomit, you know, because once I caught the cadence to it.

Like, once that sort of, like, rhythm came, it was, like, really fun because I could just pick one word and then follow up with.

Was like a word game.

Yes.

You know, like.

Yes. It has such rhythm. Yes.

All right. What's. What I want to give? Oh, always give what you can. Okay. Oh, cool. Sweet. You know, and.

Yeah, I was. I was actually with Shailene at The time we were in Indonesia. And I remember her just sitting there and I think she was like reading a book or something. And I started. I was like, damn.

I think I said that first line. I looked at her and she was like, I love it.

She was at the concert. The first time I saw you in concert, she was there. And this one was my anthem. I sung this song with you every day. I would wake up in the morning and sing it, and it was, like, so healing and so empowering to sing this song and get into the groove of it. So, yeah. Thank you for sharing the story of it.

Where was that show?

Well, I think Changu.

Oh, the little.

The little place. And it was like she was there. She was wearing shorts. You guys were very cute together. I know.

Oh, I remember.

Yeah.

That's crazy. That was literally when I was writing the song.

Okay. And you might have even been a little sick because I think you were playing Aloha. Which listeners, you have to go look up that YouTube video. It's a classic. But I think you might have been sick. You, like, stopped it. But it was. It was a great show.

I forgot about that show. Wow.

Yes.

Wow. Okay. Yeah.

So that was our. That was our, like, universe crossing moment. And, yeah, it's really special. I can't thank you enough for being here today.

Can you hear this?

All right. Yes.

Give always give what you can Even if you realize your lies in the same day Always dig a little deeper Sometimes it's hard to be my brother's keeper Love so you let love in baby I am warm in the wake of your skin and it's crazy everywhere Our ceremony always be open to your path and your journey yes, she cradles my loneliness A home that I for is last universal test with the weight of my love for jam on my chest and rest in the cradle of arms the battle that we face is a place where our scars come from to pick up the gun, my love we are destined to teach these ones to be brave Never run away Courage is buried from the womb on the first latter day yeah the day you were born you came out perfect Never meant to be tort in silence Never, never been so loud in the violence Never been so proud of the people Only fighting for a change Unafraid to lose it all despite all the rage we are animals and we cannot be caged Provoke us to fight so we burn a little sage and write poetry Wiser than the enemy will ever be the minority and authority Are you here to protect or arrest me? I can't Tolerate, tolerate the hate and I'm losing sleep, can't breathe Cause they're choking out the war in me Immorality yeah Love letters to God?

Wonder if she reads them or if they get lost in the stars Star.

In the stars.

So many parts to a heavy heart.

If there's no beginning then where would you start? Star art star.

Where would you start?

Human souls so we carve them into story totem poles? Cause we're always searching for a certain.

Goal A pattern of physics we're old don't believe what you're told and open, open up your fist A misconception you can fight like this and praise with the power of prayer of God on our side you can take the stairs to the heavens Flipping through my chapter seven I live with the stakes and the great deception no court in this country for men who steal from the mother on paper with pen limbo Tripping down a red dirt road and we're asking is this the way we should go? Kissing soft top feet of my goddess? We walk the earth, baby yeah we got this focus and it's redirected Grateful but I'm resurrected Stubborn but I know the way you're the skin on my drum to get rhythm I will sway take my hand I won't lead you astray we will not content me into the darkest of days Grandma's here and she says persevere take a walk in her mock the trail of tears and our fears are the same as the ever were beers numb the pain of a holocaust Fears always mobbing in motion maybe baby de and ocean your arches I they benedict attract out my conscience never slept through the grip of my thesis and my theory is I shine in your presence A deliverance yeah. Love letters to God.

I wonder if she reads them or if they get lost in the star.

Stars.

So many parts to a heavy heart.

If there's no beginning then where would you start?

Where would you start?

Thank you. Thank you.

That was so beautiful. Thank you so much. Nako. I can't possibly thank you enough for the medicine your music has brought into my life. And I feel like five years of podcasting have helped me build to this moment to have you on the show and damn to get to have a live performance for pop pivot podcast listeners. I'm beyond. We did it. Thank you. Thank you, thank you. You're amazing. Thank you for all that you do. You make a difference in so many people's lives. And do I get to meet the dog? Yes. The world is better with you in it. Let me go get Ryder. I wonder if he's upstairs.

Ryder.

Ryder. At this point, I stopped hitting record and I unplugged the laptop, brought the computer over so that Nako can meet Ryder, and we had a lot of fun. Ryder was totally wiped out. It's a hot 90 degree New York City day, so he was just laid in the bathroom tile in the dark trying to get some rest.

As promised at the beginning, here is now a few of my little mini bloopers or outtakes from the intro. And you can laugh with me at how very nervous I was to do this interview. If you're a podcaster or creative of any kind, I hope it gives you a little encouragement to shine in all your awkward glory and do those big, scary things. Anyway, here you go.

Oh, yeah, and I wanted to ask you before. Is it annoying to sing a song or joyful.

Is it annoying?

Yeah.

Is it annoying? It's not annoying. Do you have any particular requests?

I do. I was wondering if you could play Love Letters to God.

Oh, guaranteed I got you.

Thank you. I think it's so needed for this moment.

Mercury and Gatorade's no joke.

Mercury and Gatorade. I've never heard that. That's a good one. I'm gonna ask you. Oh, yeah. We have so much to talk about, Nako.

Okay, okay.

We're gonna do this because I want to get into astrology. We're gonna get to all of it right now.

Okay.

P.S. they call this the Awkward Show. My friends already make fun of me that I'm the Awkward show, so just get used to it. Okay.

All right, here we go.

I'm awkward.

I love that you embrace your weirdness, you know?

Oh, yeah, you got to. All right.

And you'll send me a request and then I'll accept it?

Yeah, yeah.

And I might ask you about aliens if we have time, too. So, you know.

So, so available for that.

Now we're talking.

Oh, my God. Okay. Amazing, Amazing, Wonderful. Okay.

Okay.

There you go.

All right, you ready for this?

Hang on.

All right, we're good.

Oh, my goodness. Okay.

That'S all, folks. I hope you enjoyed these outtakes. Have a beautiful day. Thank you again, Naming. You're the best.

Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the Pivot podcast. Make sure you don't miss an episode or my insider tips and templates by signing up for Pivot List, a curated twice monthly newsletter where I share the inside scoop on what I'm reading, reading, watching, listening to, and the latest tools. I'm geeking out on sign up@pivotmethod.com pivotlist get show notes from this episode@pivotmethod.com podcast and connect with me on Twitter ennyblake.

Remember, build first, then your courage will follow. Hasn't it always.

Sam.