249: Self-Defense Strategies with Sensei Ando Mierzwa

Hi, this is Charles Michael Davis. Toyotathon is on. So stop by your local Toyota dealer for incredible year end deals on the cars, trucks and SUVs known for their legendary reliability. Like the stylish and efficient Camry. The ready for anything rav4. Or check out a rough and rugged Tacoma or Tundra, all with great financing and lease options available to qualified customers. Visit buyatoyota.com to find out more. Toyota. Let's go places.

What's next? This is a question we're all having to ask and answer more frequently. I'm Jenny Blake, your host of the Pivot podcast and author of the only move that Matters is your next one.

For show notes from this episode, visit pivotmethod.com podcast. If change is the only constant, then let's get better at it. Here we go.

Here we are talking for the very first time in real time. I feel like, you know, this is one of those friendships where you're convinced we're friends already. I mean, clearly. But then, oh, now reality is catching up and we're live. It's not a phone anymore, but live on the Internet for the first time in real time. Which is really exciting.

It is.

Let me give listeners a brief background on Ando.

So.

So Ando has been a martial artist for over 30 years. He believes that your smile is your best self defense weapon. More on that in a minute. And he has a wonderful podcast called Fight for Happy Life in addition to several courses. But the one that I binged and loved and I'm going to go back to over and over is self defense Basics. So I'm going to put the links to all of these in the show notes and with an official welcome. Ando. Oh, I knew I would mess that up. Sensei Ando Miurzua.

I'll take it. Your voice makes everything sound beautiful. I love it.

Can you fix your name pronunciation for me? Can you just say it? I never use it.

It's a Mirza Merzwa Miershva. I'll answer to anything, but just Ando is good enough. Hey, you. That's fine.

I love it. I love Sensei Ando. It's. It's nice. It's your. You're such a, again, positive, like power packed, positive person. Wow, that's a lot of. That's good alliteration.

I love the alliteration. I'm a huge fan of alliteration. That was beautiful.

And even your self defense basics course is, is palatable. There's another P that it's like you make it so fun. And it's not about this rigid self defense. It's. Let's just start with your philosophy that your smile is your best self defense weapon. Tell us what that means and what you even mean when you're talking about self defense more broadly.

Sure. Great. Thank you for that huge setup. I might go crazy here talking about this, so cut me off anytime you feel you need to. But, yeah, to me, self defense usually gets put into this little compartment where it's usually you see an ad for some. Oh, it's a women's self defense course. And it's some athletic, ripped young lady making an angry face in a sports bra punching a pad. And people either say, that's for me or it's not for me, and they move on. And I think it's unfortunate because it's really for everybody. Self defense is for everyone. You don't have to have abs and you don't have to be angry. Self defense is anything that you do to improve your health, your safety, or your happiness. So that is the big umbrella of what self defense is. It's just another branch of self reliance. And I know that anyone listening to your show, your tribe is clearly comprised of people interested in self improvement and self empowerment. And to not have self defense on that menu of tools in their toolbox is insane to me. And it just means that somewhere down their past, they've been misled to think that self defense is not for them. And I'm just here trying to be a messenger to let everyone know, come in. The water's great. You should be into self defense if you believe in yourself and you believe you're making a positive impact in the world or that's your mission, the tools of self defense will only help you do everything you do better. So whether that's washing your hands, whether that's standing up a little straighter, whether that's speaking up for yourself, whether that's pushing your mission forward, or if you never need to. Yeah, put your hands on someone, then, yeah, it's all part of it. So please don't think of self defense as this narrow little set of skills where you're kneeing bad guys in the groin. That is just. That's like saying that opera is just a bunch of people in silly costumes screaming at each other. That's not right. But people think that. There are people who think that's what opera is. And so I don't want to see self defense get pushed aside so readily because it's just not true. So why do you think people.

Why do you think they don't think it's for them? Or in my case, it was kind of a should for a long time, especially living in New York City and being a woman. I am constantly.

Well, being common to that. I mean every time I leave the house it's four or five times I've been in New York nine years now. I'm not saying that's it makes me so special, but there was a video on YouTube about a woman walking through New York and how many times she got cat called. Cat calls. The least of it. But there are certain people that have really intense dark energy and dark eyes and sometimes I feel like a walking piece of stick, you know, and, and yet I knew, oh, I should do self defense. You even sent me the link to course over a year ago, if not longer. And I kept putting it off and it. Maybe there was part of me that was intimidated or scared of it or. Yeah, exactly. Pictured the. What's the really intense one? Krav Maga or just feeling that this was so important and not getting around to it. And I. What I love is how you've kind of, you've made it so accessible. But why, why do people avoid understanding basic self defense strategies? And even something as beautiful as what you've said, let your smile be your shield and your sword. Like what does that even mean? How do we. I don't think I've ever thought of a smile as being somehow part of self defense or just self presentation in the world.

Well, boy, there's so much to say there. Okay, first of all, I appreciate your honesty in voicing a resistance or a reluctance to look into self defense. I think that's completely natural to most people listening. Because when we're little kids we are taught that fighting is bad and most of us are good people. I believe the world is largely comprised of good people. The bad guys are a small percentage, but they make all the trouble. And the problem is that the good people, because they were trained to never fight and that violence is bad and fighting is a bad word. It's the other F word. You shouldn't fight with anybody. Then the bad guys run amok. They can do whatever they want because they know, they take advantage of the fact that the good guys, the kind people, will never speak up against them. They'll never stand up against them. They won't put their hands up, certainly. And so the bad guys win, the good guys lose. And you're not alone. It's over and over and over again. And for Myself, I was raised that way. No one ever took me aside and said, now listen to me. No one has a right to shrink your personage. No one has a right to make your body feel tense. No one has a right to make your stomach feel uncomfortable or make you not speak up when you believe in something or to shout down your opinion. No one ever actually said that. It's implied. These are good parents. I'm not mad at anybody or blaming anybody. But it's not really like a subject at school to say you are worth fighting for and you have a natural right to fight. Every plant, every tree, every animal will fight for themselves. They will fight for resources and get the water and get the nutrients they need, get their food. If you corner any living creature, it has defense mechanisms. But human beings are the only species I can think of, of any life form that somehow doubt that it's okay to fight back, that it's okay to set a boundary. It's okay to make themselves feel comfortable and powerful. When someone's trying to take those things away from you, it's a bizarre situation. And kind people are the worst afflicted by this. This doubt to fight back. Now tying that back into smiling to me again, you get this idea that self defense has to be rooted in anger and hatred for the bad guy. And that's the biggest misconception about self defense. It's actually rooted in love. Love is about protecting what's important to you, starting with yourself, hopefully. But in general terms, most people find it easier to protect someone else if someone was attacking Michael or Ryder. Right? Let's focus on Ryder. Maybe there are good days and bad days with Michael. I'm married. I understand. But let's say you see someone clubbing your. Your puppy. Someone's kicking your puppy right in the head. I'm presuming that you, Jenny Blake, such a nice person, would have no problem running over there and pushing that person out of there, or worse, and to defend your puppy because, you know, it's.

Are they bigger than me? Do they have, you know, are they like, super buff? Are they? I've asked Michael so many times because we had people ask us, like, how much was your dog? Or they would look kind of. They would ask very weird questions. And I've run through scenarios with Michael like, what if somebody had a gun and they go, give me your dog, what would I do? And I don't know. Ando, I don't know if I would just run up and shove them and be like, give me my dog back. You know or stop hitting my dog if they have a weapon or they were terrifying me in some other way. But you're right, I would like want to protect him so much.

Well, want to. That's where it starts. We know that there's a natural urge to want to at least to do something. And I'm not saying that every situation has an easy answer like, oh, every time I would fight the guy with the gun. Of course not. We still have to be smart human beings and creative human beings and try to solve problems the best we can in that situation. But starting with that first desire to know there is right and wrong, there is good and evil, and just to recognize it first. And then to start listening to that voice and then figuring out, well, what tools do I have to support the good, to protect the good? And if on that day you don't have the tools to do it, well, then that day you lose something. But if you do have the tools, if you have been training, then hopefully you have more options than someone who never looks at these issues, never thinks about them, never trains for them. So that would be the bigger message here. I'm not Superman. I might run away from a bad situation as fast as anyone else. But I do believe I would run through a longer list of options before I got to that decision. Because ultimately that's what this is about. If it's about self empowerment and self reliance, it means I want to act, not react in any given situation. So hopefully through good training, you get to exercise all of the tools that you have as a human being. And that's going to extend from making peace, being friendly, trying to keep everybody calm, all the way over to the other extreme of I will put my hands on your throat until you're dead. Now that sounds dark. And people might pull back from that. But that's because we're all trained as nice, good hearted, compassionate people to think about violence in those terms. But there are legitimate situations where you might have to kill someone. And I'm gonna go right to that extreme word kill, because that's the point. That's what self defense training allows you to really explore. What would you fight for? What would you kill for? I don't believe that anyone would think there's no situation where someone needs to be killed. If you're on a plane that's being hijacked and being sent into a tower in New York City, but you're the guy standing right there next to the person with the box cutter, and you might be the only person who not only Saves everyone in that tower, but everyone on the plane just by standing up for a moment to grab someone and do something. I would like to think that every good person agrees. Oh, okay. Well, that's a very clear situation where it'll be justified to put your hands on someone and act violently. If that led to their death, well, then so be it. If I had enough control because I'm so good with my tools that I don't need to kill and I have that choice to also preserve a bad guy's life. Well, now we're talking about mastery. This, to me would be the ultimate goal of all of our training for anything. That you not only have a full range of tools in your toolbox from peace to death, but you now have so much control over those tools, you're so good with them that you can choose exactly what you want to do. I don't have to kill anyone. I hope I never have to. I have that option. But I also have enough control, I hope to get me to every degree before that where I could let them go, I could still hold them, I could still constrain them, I could still walk away. I want every tool in my toolbox.

So that's what I find. No, no, no. It's great and so important and that's what I find very inspiring and impressive with a lot of these martial arts that they do train restraint. And it seems specificity. I only had light exposure to jiu jitsu. Michael started pre pandemic. And then when the pandemic hit, I did a few sessions with him at home. But that I can imagine that when you get to the level that you're at, you do know all these different holds and I don't know the, all the link of the arm bars and the chokeholds and the, you know, ways to restrain a person without just like madly flailing, you know, in self defense. And what struck me too, by the way, I should say Ando's course is completely free. So when I'm mentioning it, I'm not. It's. It's you, you all listening, have access to it. But I thought it was so interesting where you were saying prevention and avoidance is the most, the first, most important part of self defense. And at another point in the course, you said, you know, sometimes the very best option oftentimes is run, is run away. That we think of self defense as immediately in combat, who's going to get whoever in a chokehold first? And that's actually not it. There's so much that happens prior to Contact. One of them is a smile. You said one of them is holding yourself with confidence. And that I actually want to ask you about this. You're not the only person I've heard sometimes predators, people who really do have nefarious aims, prey on fear. And Gavin de Becker has talked about this too, but that, let's say he's. If you see a woman walking to her car and she has her keys spread between her knuckles, he said that can convey fear. It actually can convey.

And that that fear may be somehow deterring from her own ability, her own prevention in terms of self defense. And I thought that was very interesting. I wonder if you could speak to that a little bit, the difference between confidence and why does confidence contribute to self defense or at least displaying confidence, Even if, and this is important, what if your alarm bells start going off? Your intuition or your stress? What if you are afraid on the inside? How do you still convey confidence in a way that might be a deterrent before something can happen?

Sure. Well, a bad guy is a human being, just like we are, right. Sometimes it's easy to say, oh, they're evil, they're monsters. But no, they're people. So just reverse engineering like, well, okay, if I was a bad guy, who would I target? Who would I look for? Who is the person who's going to make what I want, getting what I want the easiest? That's what this whole game is about. Because a bad guy, in most cases, unless now they're just on some really crazy medication or their brain is so chemically imbalanced that they're not even thinking somehow coherently, you're gonna look for the easy mark. Sharks do. Lions do. They don't go after the biggest animal and the fiercest animal and the strongest animal in the pack. They target the weak and the small and the slow and the weak. Did I say weak? They definitely target the ones that will give them the least amount of trouble to get what they want. So if you're looking at a group of people and you put yourself in that mindset like, okay, what if I was a predator right now? What if I was just looking for a purse to grab? Whose purse would I grab? And now just, you'll see very quickly, like, well, that person's not even paying attention. They just walked away from their shopping cart. I could grab that one without even anyone seeing me. Well, I could grab that person's purse. And she doesn't look very strong. I'm about 50 pounds heavier than her, so I'll bet I could get that away pretty quickly. Quickly in a tug of war. And then you work your way up the chain like, well, that person's got the strap over her shoulder so I can't just grab it. But she looks pretty strong too. So if I did grab it, even if I could take her off balance, it looks like she might land on me or she could hit me. That looks a little too dangerous. So I'm going to put her on the bottom of my list. So that's just for a quick mugging. But now escalate that up into more serious situations. Like if you're looking for a sexual assault or just you're just angry, you just want to beat up on somebody, whatever it is, or you're looking to be more sensitive about it. Domestic violence, I mean, who are you going to target in a relationship but someone who's going to allow you to be pushed around? Domestic violence doesn't usually start on a first date where you get punched in the head. It starts with these little things which is where the intuition starts becoming very important. We have to learn that self defense again is a huge umbrella. It's not just, oh, someone's grabbing my throat, now I'm in danger. No, no, you were in danger the first time you offered your opinion and they completely talked over you and never listened to you. That was the first sign of danger. And those kinds of things we're all very good at. We're all, I think we are very good at feeling comfort and discomfort. And when anything makes that little flag go off on a small scale, in fact, that to me is what it's all about. Because most of us will never actually be in a fight for our life, that we're never going to end up with someone in an arm bar on the ground or a choke. That's really a very, very low percentage situation. But every day you're in a phone call or a zoom chat or somebody is saying something that makes you feel different inside. Some people make you feel happier and stronger and better. And some people, people make you feel worse, make you feel like you're losing power, that you're not important, that your opinion doesn't matter. And if we as self defense students, which I've now knighted, everyone listening, you're all self defense students. If you can start practicing self defense skills on that small, low risk, low consequence scale, then you are starting to flex those muscles so that when something more serious happens, higher risk, higher consequences, you have a background in that you know what to do. You have instincts that are finally honed that's what this is about. It shouldn't be, oh, I. Self defense means I'm hitting pads and I'm yelling and screaming, no, no, no, no, no. Self defense means the next time you get the wrong order at a restaurant, you go to get your takeout nowadays and they put the wrong food in the bag, you have a choice. You can either say, oh, yeah, well, I like this too. It's not a big deal. I'll take this home. If that's what you always do, then that is your challenge for the day. To say, you know what, I am going to take this back. I am going to request again that they make the right order. That for some people could be the biggest emotional challenge ever. To call someone out and say, hey, something's wrong here. I would like this fixed. If that to you is a big success, then you should do that. And now you are starting to flex that muscle. That's gonna turn into someday, hey, someone just put their hand down you and you don't like it, but you know what to do because you've been practicing that all this time with how you speak and how you let people speak to you and how you make people feel and how you let people you know. This is the thing. Training in self defense is a two way street. There's how you train your own body and your own emotions, your own psychology and it's how you train other people to treat you. Everyone in your life is a sparring partner, is a self defense partner. Your closest relationship is your best sparring partner. My wife is my best sparring partner. She has no interest in martial arts. She does not take martial arts. I have never been able to. Hey, will you just help me out? Can you wrestle a little bit or hold these pads? She won't do it. She's not interested in martial arts. But she is still my best sparring partner. Because who makes you angrier or can hit your buttons quicker than your, than your soulmate, than your partner. So once you start looking at self defense that way, where anything that makes you upset, loses your temper, makes you feel unsure of yourself, you doubt yourself. You're hesitating on your, on your instincts and following through and taking action. Anything that makes you feel like that is a fight is a self defense situation, opportunity, something to train. And I know you keep mentioning the smile thing and I keep getting sidetracked. So let me pull it back to the smiling. Smiling is one tool in the toolbox that you can use to defend yourself. I say it's your shield and Your sword. And the thing is that most people think of smiling, I believe as a reaction. Something good happens and then you smile. It's something that comes as a reward after something good happens. But to me, that's backwards. Good things happen when you smile first. Your smile is the tool that creates opportunities. It's the tool that projects the signal into the world that says, here's who I am, I'm confident, I'm secure in myself, I believe in what I'm doing. I have my strengths, I know what I'm, I've accepted life, good and bad. And I'm still smiling, I'm still in a state of my flow. I'm creative, I can see more, I can feel more. There's no downside to smiling. But if you walk around neutral or like a zombie or you think you have to furrow your brow and look tough and snarl all the time to be tough and project strength, well, you're actually closing opportunities. You're putting your body in a state that's not flowing, it's not as creative, you're insensitive, you're not seeing as much. So to me it's a pretty simple choice. And you always have this choice. You can either no matter what's happening in your life, find a smile, create a smile, even fake a smile to start that ball rolling towards something positive. Or you can allow the world to beat you down, take your smile and put you in a state where you're not going to be productive and you're not powerful. So I hope some of that answered part of what we were talking about.

There's so much good stuff in there, especially your comment that what you allow into your life you'll get more of. I just love how you framed that training in self defense is a two way street. Both your own body and how you train others to treat you. I have two follow up questions. So I do tend to walk through the streets of New York smile first. But every now and then I wonder, am I going to give someone the wrong idea? So let's say sometimes I'm at the park with Ryder alone and maybe there's one or more men around on benches. Yes, I'm more intimidated by men than women. Although I've seen women doing some crazy things. But I don't really fear for say assault which is, I know Siri getting to the serious end but sometimes I want now I will say for the most part when I smile and greet people, you're right, it is this proactive kind of instant rapport building, building but every now and then I'll have a doubt in the back of my mind that, oh, is smiling in this case, going to, I don't know, be sort of somehow some invitation, like some open door. And then on the converse side, you mentioned being firm with our kind of not. Not overly rigid, but just firm with boundaries. And sometimes someone will, like, get feisty with Michael, like, maybe Ryder has gone too. Too close to their outdoor dining table or something. And Michael will just snap back and I'll say, my feeling will be, don't escalate the situation. And I always hesitate to say anything at all because I don't want to escalate. But I could see, and especially when I observed the men in. They tend to be more reactive than I am. And I'm a, you know, me. And, oh, I struggle with, like, people pleasing and being nice, being liked.

But I. It always occurs to me that to. To snap back.

Is pointless. Like, and it would just escalate. Although I see why when. When I've seen more men in my life respond this way every now and then a woman, they kind of feel that they need to do that. Like, this person has crossed the line and they're going to have their say as well. And they're very firm about that. And I wonder. So I know I keep giving you these complicated branching questions, but that's what comes to mind on both sides of this coin.

Sure. And I think that comes back to what we already talked about a little bit, which was having choices. There's nothing wrong with the tool of snapping back. Sometimes, as you fairly pointed out, it is the right thing, and that is the exactly appropriate way to handle a situation. But in other situations, it's the absolute worst thing you can do. You're escalating it and making things worse. So the idea, again, is to have a full spectrum. As a human being, you should have every option available to you. And that means, okay, this guy's crowding me at my dinner table. It might be the right decision to snap at that person. It might also be just the right decision to get up and move. It might be the right decision to talk to the manager and have them move. It might be the right decision just to suck it up and say, maybe I'll make a friend and say hello to this person who's getting closer. Those are all valid choices, depending on your personal wisdom in that moment, to make a choice. The problem is, if you only do one of those things, automatically, it's just a reaction. It wasn't a choice. And now you're gonna start this cascade of consequences that maybe you didn't intend, but that was your habit. So there are some people who, when they're confronted, whether it's a threat, which is less likely, or it's being over talked or shouted down or devalued, who will just say nothing and they'll just go away. Maybe they'll vent at home or drink wine or do something to take away that pain, but in the moment they didn't say anything and they feel terrible about it. There are other people who in that same situation would immediately step up, get in their face, argue, yell. Okay, well, which was the right reaction? Neither one to me. If you always just do one thing, then sometimes it'll work, sometimes it won't. It's a coin flip. What you hope for is that I could do either one. I am always floating in the Zen state of seeing things as objectively as I can and then hopefully having enough life experience to have wisdom to say, this is the time to say something, or this is not the time to say something and my ego is out of the way. So I will choose the right tool at the right time to have the best hopeful cascade of consequences that come after. That doesn't mean you're always right, but you're doing the best you can. The main thing is to not be a slave to your own reactions, a slave to your own history, a slave to just one pattern of thinking or one belief system. So to me, that's what self defense offers most good, kind people. It's a look at, let's say, the dark side of humanity. Not just the threat of being killed, but again, you may be having to put your hands on someone and control them. If you don't look at those tools, you're giving up half of your options in any given situation. And that would be a shame because the bad guys are fully capable of being kind and generous. Right? They can say, oh, Hitler was really fantastic at parties. He was really great to his friends and family, like, okay, Al Capone. Yeah, he was really cool in his community and he really helped a lot of people out and gave a lot of money to this charity and the kids club. And yeah, but they were also heinous people, evil people, but they had a full spectrum of behavioral choices before them. Good people don't have that advantage. They're only playing with half of the tools. Once you open up the rest of that toolbox and go, oh, I could also do this. I could speak up. I could say, no, you're Wrong. I can make someone else feel uncomfortable. I could cause someone else pain. Now you have a full range of tools to choose from. So to me, that's why self defense is so important. Most people need the dark. I hate calling it dark because that makes it seem negative. But I'm thinking more in the yin yang sense. It's just the opposites. You want to be loud sometimes, sometimes quiet. You want to be fast sometimes, sometimes slow. Sometimes you speak up, sometimes you walk away. Snap back, relax. These are all contrasts. And if you want to call yourself a professional human being, I think that was one phrase. I really wanted to work in here today. I love that people who listen to your show clearly are professionals. They're trying to improve their careers, get more money, get what they're worth, move their company forward or their career. But that's only being a professional careerist. What about being a professional human being? As a professional human being, you should be prepared to handle any situation that comes up. Just like you would be in your business for a customer coming to you with any situation. If I'm a plumber or an electrician, I don't wait to buy the tools and wait to take a course on how to fix things. I show up at your place with all those tools and experiences ready to go. If you tell me, oh, it's the dishwasher, oh, it's the lights, then I'm ready. I say, great, I have a tool for that. I know what to do as a professional human being. Somebody's crowding your space. Someone's over talking you. You want more money at your job, you're afraid to ask for a raise, whatever it is, you're at the park and someone's whistling. All of those situations should be something that you can look back at and say, hey, I'm a professional human being. I know what this is. I know what these feelings are. I know what my tools are. And here's how I'm going to solve the problem today. Here's my choice. I'm not going to react to everything. I can look at it objectively and make my decision. So I hope that somehow answers your question.

I get so excited in this one conversation. You have knighted us self defense students, all of us. And we're also on our way to becoming professional human beings. Yes, it's so good. I love how you say too for people. So the framing of Yin and yang is so helpful because I agree, light, dark, good, evil. Those concepts might not resonate in the same way, but we all need to embrace our Yin and our yang side and energy and tools and that you've said, why is it okay for someone else to make you feel.

Why is it okay for someone else to make you feel, oh, uncomfortable. Let me do that again. Why is it okay for someone else to make you feel uncomfortable but not for you to make someone else uncomfortable? And I think that's one of those issues that comes in where we get the intuitive sense, the spidey sense starts going and we think, well, from social graces or, oh, I don't want to offend them or whatever, but they've made of use, they've made you uncomfortable. So don't we have that same right not to be violent or aggressive like you said, to respond and act with wisdom, but just to preserve some stranger's comfort over our own is not necessarily the way for those who do need a reminder of being a professional human being.

Right, Exactly.

But it's not, oh, everybody, everyone's comfort is more important than your own.

Exactly. Well said. And how dare you say yin and Yang and make me sound illiterate by saying yin and Yang. How dare you, you, ma', am, that is just over the line.

I don't know, maybe I'm saying it wrong.

No, no, I'm not Chinese. I don't have. No, no, no.

You're the martial artist.

You're the martial artist. I'm not a Chinese martial artist. I'm just a martial artist. I'm a human being. I own me. I am not from China.

But I do believe in opposites and I do believe in being full spectrum as a professional human being, being prepared for everything I can be. And like you said, if someone else is making you uncomfortable, why shouldn't it be okay for you to make them feel uncomfortable? And more importantly, bad guys, real bad guys, whether that's a manager taking advantage of your time, say, oh, can you work on the weekends? And oh, or someone not paying you enough or it's a physical threat, right? No matter who that person is, they're doing it on purpose. They know what they're doing. That is a tool in their toolbox. If someone raises their voice at you and tries to intimidate you, that's not an accident. That's a strategy. If someone slaps you to get your attention in a physical assault, that's not just whoops, that's on purpose because they know how that's going to make you feel. So for good guys to not understand that, that's a choice, that's why it's so foreign to us as good people to say, wait a minute, you're purposely making me feel bad. You're purposely making me doubt myself. You're purposely causing me pain. Because that's not even in our toolbox. We don't even recognize that that's what they' which is why we're vulnerable. That's why good people are vulnerable, because they think, well, he couldn't possibly be doing this on purpose. He's really underpaying me. He's really not giving me credit for this. He's really not going to advance me and give me a promotion. He's going to keep taking all my credit. That's what they're doing on purpose. That's what manipulators do. That's what bad guys do. And until you acknowledge that and accept it, you can't recognize it. And unless you don't recognize it, you're not going to do anything about it. So, yeah, I just want to make sure that's, that's clear. They are doing that on purpose.

And just it's so true that that's where, you know, there's this known dynamic of the empath and the narcissist. And you could probably pair an empath with a manipulator, a sociopath. I mean, I've certainly had my fair share of crazy relationships where I kept giving this person the benefit of the doubt, the benefit of the doubt over and over, trying to understand their behavior through not just my own orientation to the world, but also I'm kind of an idealist. Like, I want to see the best in everybody. That's kind of why I do the work that I do. And I'm an optimist, so I want to see the best for situations. Oh my gosh. But there were so many times where it just blinded me to the fact that this other person's compass does not work like mine, you know, and, and it can be so hard. And then I think another thing, that this goes more into psychological self defense.

Sometimes there's no rationalizing with a crazy person, for lack of a better term. And I'm not trying to insult anyone with legitimate mental health concerns, but somebody who is truly manipulative or even if they don't realize that they are this way, they're gaslighting you. Whatever it is, you cannot.

When you can't agree, you can't rationalize with them. The conversation will not unfold in a rational way. And I will share this story. I don't know if I've ever shared it on the podcast, but before catfishing was a term, I got catfished by someone who I never ended up even learning if this was a man or a woman. And they never called me on the phone, but I was involved in this intricate emotional relationship. And. And again, prior to this, even being on the table of conversation in America and social media and because, you know, I was early to vlogging, so yay, early to catfishing.

And when I ended it and I said, if you will not pick up the phone, we're done. And by the way, every alarm bell ringing and that saying, but all the. All the yellow flags turn red in hindsight. I get it, I get it. I learned so much. But you, if you can believe it, and I'm sure you can, when I said, if you don't pick up the phone and call, we're done. I got the most angry messages, paragraph, long essays, why I'm such a horrible person, why I'm just wrong this person. And then the next email would be, you're not giving me any closure, just ranting, ranting, ranting, ranting. And I had to realize there's literally no response under the sun that I can give to this. I'm not dealing with a rational person, but I only learned that the hard way. And that wasn't even the last relationship where I had to learn that flavor of lesson. So I just offered that my whole rant, my whole rant and story to say, yes, sticking up for boundaries is important. And sometimes I think it's also just as important to, like, drop the ball and walk away there. You're not going to get closure because if you're dealing with someone truly manipulative or psychologically not a sparring partner, you can't do it. It just can't be done.

Right. Thank you for sharing that. It's such a great example, and I'm sure everyone understands and has had similar situations. And I believe Gavin de Becker also addresses that in the Gift of Fear. If we haven't already plugged that book, it's definitely a classic. It should be read by everyone.

I agree. Just read it this year. It's so good. And Ando, where's your book? Excuse me.

Hey, you know what? Writing is my first love, and I got caught up in this video stuff, and I am putting it together. I just want to make sure I know what I'm about. Talking, talking about. Thank you. Thank you for the encouragement. I will do it. And I will mention you in the acknowledgments, as you were kind enough to do for me. Thank you.

I'll send you lots of templates.

Who else would I turn to but Jenny?

Aren't we a cheerleader? Yes, I. I am. Here by voting, your book is this will be such an important piece of body of work. And it's easy. You already have the course, but you are going to respond, you're going to say something else.

And then I. Yeah, about the irrational and no win situation. And I was saying that I believe Gavin de Becker talks about that with stalkers and all that stuff, that at some point you have to stop the communication because that's what they want. They just want the ongoing communication. It's the connection to another person. The fact is that some people like drama. They like the conflict. They kind of get excited. Seeing you get flustered and getting angry, that's just an excitement and it's funny. This kind of relates in case there are people here who have hired people and fired people. I have.

There are many situations, let's say as a manager, where you have an employee and they're a terrible employee. And you as an idealist and a good person, you're constantly trying to help them with supportive pep talks and extra training hours. And you're putting all of your resources into this person, meanwhile neglecting all of the good people who deserve your time and energy. But this person's a black hole who keeps sucking up all your resources and. And they just are miserable but will not quit. And this situation comes up constantly in all kinds of different contexts. But we have to recognize that once you identify, like, oh, I see. I've offered you help. I've given you a path to make this a productive, constructive situation, but you keep refusing it. But at the same time, you're not leaving. Ah, so now I see you're a person who gets excited by drama. You like being the black sheep, you like being the rogue. You like getting these reactions, reactions out of me. You like wasting my time and now I get to fire you. That's the way I've always walked into firing. So if anybody here is a manager and you've got a troubled employee, but you just feel bad, you want to fire them. They got kids, they got this. Whatever. Good people will always find excuses to keep doing what they think is the right thing. However, consider this approach. When you fire someone who's a bad employee and is, you've proven it to yourself. So I'm just going to go with it. You already know they're a bad employee. Just call it what it is. When you fire them, you're Doing something better for them. Because clearly they're not happy there. They're not productive there. They're not helping anybody there. And you are doing them a favor by being the one who can take the action to say, you know what? This isn't working out for either one of us. All you've ever done is complain. You've resisted training, you're not improving, your numbers are bad, or whatever. However you measure success in your business, I'm gonna do you a favor here. Let's part ways. No hard feelings. I hope you find what you're looking for someplace else. Of course, secretly, you know what they're looking for is drama. But you're letting them know this is not the place where you're gonna get drama. That's not the culture we're creating in this company. That's not who I am. I don't wanna do this dance. So you let them go. So to me, a firing is a happy occasion because I know my life will certainly be better now. I can allot my resources to the people who deserve them and who will carry them farther. And I know that I'm gonna give this person a chance to go find some other miserable place where they like that kind of drama, all just feed on their dark energies together. I don't have to do it, though. So don't look at firing a bad employee as a bad thing. It's a gift. You are taking action where they would not. Where they could not let them go. And smile.

Oh, it's coming back to the smile. Yes. Yes. Well, I don't know if I got. I think that's so important, what you just said. And yes, you're doing both of you a favor. Even if the other person, whether it's an employee or a romantic partner or a friend, if they're completely toxic to you, they might. Or they're in complete victim mode. They might never get it. They might never understand. You're just another person that has wronged them in their life, and you're a horrible person for it. That may never change. And I think some of us have to realize, oh, yes, I can believe we're both better off. They might not. And. And being okay with that, because you can't change somebody else's mind and you can't change how they're going to see you or see the situation.

Absolutely right. You're very wise. And I should say, because I know the smile has been a theme that keeps getting danced around. And you presented a really difficult question, which I'm sure everyone Wanted an answer to, and I didn't get to answer it, which was, hey, I'm in the park and I'm with Ryder and there's dudes in the park, or I'm feeling unsafe and now I feel like an idiot for smiling, and am I asking for trouble? So. So just to clarify, I'll give you level two about the smile. Let's just present the idea that there's your exterior smile, the one that you show the world, the one that signals, hey, here's how I'm feeling. But there's also the concept of an inner smile. And that one is something that should never, ever be removed from your soul, Ever. In your heart, you are still that little baby who was born into this world, innocent and loving and idealistic and wants to explore and. And change things and play with things. And that child is still in you. We all have this inner child, and that child is happy, and that is who we're always protecting. Again, self defense is based in love. And you're protecting not just the good in the world that you see out there, but the good in you, that original soul that was born here. So the inner smile is something that you can keep even if someone's screaming in your face. I'm not suggesting. Oh, you just give them a big toothy grin and say, okay, keep yelling at me. That is probably not the right strategy for that moment. Probably. But inside, even if someone is screaming in your face, even if someone is hitting you inside, I should still feel as relaxed and as in my power and as accessing all of my tools as ever. My optimal state should not be something that could be taken away from me with a few angry words or a dip in my finances or whatever's going on in the world. And certainly right now, there's all of this stress coming through and all of these. These conflicts and all this change. But really, is it anything different than been happening since the first day you were born? It's always about change. Your body's always been changing. Your hormones are always changing. You're starting a new school, you're starting a new job. You move to a new apartment. You start a new relationship. Your life is always in tumult. You should, as a professional human being, already have the tools to face that, to enter into that and say, okay, well, I'm gonna make this choice here. My wisdom tells me to make that choice. There doesn't mean I don't make mistakes and I don't keep learning, but I'm not gonna feel knocked out. I'm not gonna feel like I can't smile and I can't relax and I can't feel good about myself and about what I'm doing. So Covid is just a scaled up version of the same situations you've been dealing with your entire life. So I just wanna make sure people understand that there is a difference between when you wanna employ your exterior smile to various degrees. A little smile, a little smirk, a big smile, a big laugh, a big hey, how you doing? All the way down to my face doesn't show you exactly how I'm feeling. Although you'll probably never see me look.

Disturbed and upset. And I'm crying over in the corner. Usually my tools keep me out of that dark place, but that takes a lot of practice. But at all times, I should have that inner smile going on no matter what's happening. My inner smile that tells me I'm okay. I've been here before. I know what to do. Take action and live or die. At least I'm doing it on my terms, not yours. You're not getting reactions out of me. You're not making me react without thinking or giving up with who I am. I know who I am. I know what I can do. And here's my next action. Watch me go. That, to me, is the answer to the bigger question, but when do I smile? When do I don't smile? Those are just momentary decisions, but inside, it should be a constant. That is what you're really training at all times. How strong is your inner smile? And what does it take for someone to get rid of it? That goes into that how to take a punch stuff. That's the other side of martial arts. Sure, you learn how to punch somebody, but you also learn how to take a punch. And right now in the world, it seems like a lot of people are taking some very big punches, economically and culturally and within relationships. And everything's changing right now. But again, it's just a scaled up version of what's always been happening. So how did you take punches when you were five? How did you take disappointment? Oh, you didn't get the toy you wanted? Oh, you got punished. Not fair. He did it, not me. But I'm getting punished too. Hey, guess what? Life isn't always fair. You've known that since you could think. So this should not be different now. So reflect back on. Everyone should reflect on the wisdom they've already gained from all of their life experience. No matter how old you are, if you're listening to this podcast can understand these words, then you're smart enough to understand how far you've already come and what you've already worked through and what tools you already used successfully. I know in your book Pivot, you talk about doubling down on your strengths. That's your pivot point. What am I doing? Well, what is working? And that's just a self defense strategy too. You take what's working and you keep working with that and see what the limitations of that are. And where does it let you down? Does it ever let you down? It's ultimately all about self knowledge, self reliance, and whatever you have to do to make that inner self smile to coddle that little inner child. That's good. And anything that seeks to repress or stress out that inner child, that's bad. That's the black and white of it.

Yeah. And I love what you're saying, that the inner smile, that optimal state, should not be something that could be taken away from us. And it reminds me of the concept of energy leakage or energy leaks, if, especially in New York and especially right now, I have to say. And, and once I downloaded the Citizen app, it did inspire, which I know I'll get rid of at some point. But there is, I do feel a little more hypervigilant, let's say, than I used to. Also just living different part of the city, just different dynamics. And with a dog, there's more even vigilance around the dog. Like who's he lunging toward? What's he doing? Is he running away? We have him off leash at the park a lot. And, and this notion of so kind of what you're saying is a good reminder of those energy leaks. Like, don't let every person you pass steal your energy, drain your energy. Like that's ours to protect. I did a podcast with Michael, my husband, on protect your flame. And so flame can be that inner smile and finding a way to stay grounded in that or.

Just glowing. You said you, you said even in the course, you're a powerful person. Like the sun always shining, even when you can't see it and feel it. And that that's part of becoming a professional human. And you mentioned the pandemic. It's like, don't you feel that we're all not only getting, I've been saying black belt and pivoting to co opt your lingo, but we're also becoming professional humans this year. I really feel like we are all going to come out this year with so much more wisdom and experience and resilience just from the friggin onslaught. That is 2020.

Absolutely. Yeah. If you're not coming out of this, whenever that end point is. And again, there really is no end point, because there'll be a new set of challenges right after this one.

That's why our work is simpatico.

We know that. Exactly. This is life. At the very, very end of your life, when you die, that will be the first official loss. That will be the first official. Okay, game's over. You don't get to play anymore. Until that moment, there is no losing, there is no failing. It's just stumbling ahead one way or the other, sometimes stepping, sometimes stumbling and learning and empowering yourself as you go to know. Ah, I saw what that did. I know what that does. Oh, now I can do this. Now I have that tool. You're just moving forward the best you can. And fighting. That's why fighting is such a great word to me. Because, yes, you could say, oh, fighting. We're not supposed to fight again, it's the F word. Oh, no, no. But no, everything you do is a fight. And I just don't want to see good people giving up on so many fights, getting knocked out, giving up, throwing in the towel, saying, ah, Whether it's your business or relationship or just your own feelings, like, oh, I've given up trying to feel better when I go to see this relative, or I've given up trying to feel better when I go to work. It's like, oh, no, no, no, no, no. These are training opportunities. It's just another sparring session. It's another round. Put your mouthpiece in, put your gloves on, get in there and start slugging and see what works. And if you feel like you fight better someplace else, you could be a champ over in that ring. Maybe you're just in the wrong gym, you're in the wrong ring, so to speak. Right? I mean, some people fight the wrong fight because maybe they're there for the wrong reasons. And that's why the pandemic has been somewhat helpful, because. Because it's so grand, because it's on such a huge scale. You have really no choice at this point but to study your morality, study your priorities, really reflect on what is important, what do you need and what do you want? If you have all of those questions answered, it's been six months out here in la. I still can't. My business is closed, I've lost money. I still can't do what I do. So I've had six months of that.

But I'm not crying. I understand. Okay, well, this is the new round. This is my new sparring partner. Okay, what am I learning during this time? I've made such improvements in my own personal training that I get giddy about it. Cause I have my list right here in front of my notebooks. Everything I'm working on, everything that's working out. Fantastic. What great opportunities this has allowed me. And I just hope that everybody feels the same, that they're using this time so constructively. It's a gift in many ways, of course. I don't mean to belittle people dying and the sickness and the horror of that. Of course not. But that is part of the journey. People were dying before, unexpectedly. We've all had relatives and friends die, car crashes, heart attacks. This. That these situations are not new. It's the same old human story. The only question is, what role are you playing in that story nowadays? Are you the victim like you said? Or are you the hero? Are you doing things to make yourself proud? There's an observing part of you and there's an operating part of you. Let that observer see what you're doing and be proud and say, yeah, good for you. Go do that again. Don't give up. Fight. Get up, Learn, grow.

That's the whole game here. Making your observing self guide your operating self so that you're both finding more safety, happiness and health.

Wow. Roaring applause, Standing ovation.

All right, the book is coming. You got it? I got all pumped up.

Yes. Wow, wow, wow. What a powerful way to close this conversation. At least part one. I have a feeling we can have a multi part series here.

It would be my honor.

I just love how you framed the pandemic. I know you would. Ando, I know you're not sitting over there twiddling your thumbs if anyone is like, jumping out of their seat going, all right, this is my new sparring partner. What am I learning? A notebook full of observations. And I love your reflection inquiries for listeners. What is important? What do you need? What do you want? And noticing the difference between our observational self and our operational self. And also I would add our reactive self. And are we reacting out of habit or people pleasing or any of the like? Or are we working from that inner smile, that inner flame? And.

I love how you said it. Flowing in a Zen state, like flowing and. And relaxed and observant and trusting. The wisdom that we have to respond. So, Ando, thank you so, so much. Can you please let people know where they can keep in touch and listen to your great podcast?

I would invite everyone to come over to Sensei Ando, but that's a little pretentious. I really would like to change that domain name. That was a mistake, but fightforahappylife.com will get you over to my site. Happy Life Martial Arts will get you over to my site. I welcome everyone. Now leave the light on. Put some pie in the oven. You're welcome anytime.

Amazing. And he has a free self defense course series. It's amazing. I binged it all in maybe two sittings. So you can go to Ando's website and just look for a self defense course. Ando.

Yes ma'. Am.

You're the best. I'm so happy we could do this. Thank you.

Back at you Jenny. Thank you for being such a bright spirit in this world.

Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the Pivot podcast. Make sure you don't miss an episode or my insider tips and templates by signing up for PivotList, a curated twice monthly newsletter where I share the inside scoop on what I'm reading, watching, listening to, and the latest tools I'm geeking out on. Sign up@pivotmethod.com pivotlist get show notes from the this episode@pivotmethod.com podcast and connect with me on Twitter @jennyblake.

Remember, build first, then your courage will follow. Hasn't it always.