278: Radically Content with Jamie Varon

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What's next? This is a question we're all having to ask and answer more frequently. I'm Jenny Blake, your host of the Pivot podcast and author of the Only Move that Matters is your next one.

For show notes from this episode, visit pivotmethod.com podcast. If change is the only constant, then let's get better at it. Here we go.

Hello. Hello my friends. Oh my goodness, do I have a special treat of a guest for you today. I am here with one of my longest time Twitter turned IRL friends, Jamie Varen. In fact, we have nicknames for each other. I always call Jamie at and she calls me Underscore, which is a callback to our Twitter handles that she is literally the first friend that after Joining Twitter in 2008, we met entirely through the Internet. Now it's commonplace with all the dating apps even. We met entirely through the Internet and decided to meet for a cupcake tweet up either later that year, 2008 or 2009. And we've kept in touch in varying degrees. We were like BFFs and then spread out, got married. Things happen. Now Jamie's coming out with her debut nonfiction book, it is exquisite inside and out. It's called Radically Being Satisfied in an Endlessly Dissatisfied World. And she's also a writer, designer, course creator, creative consultant. And I will say of anyone who's on social media, truly like social media extraordinaire. Jamie, welcome to the show.

Well, thank you so much for that intro. You know, I'm so excited to be here. I mean, we've been friends for so long and I always just like sometimes it's from afar and I just am always cheering you on. And I've been getting your newsletter for.

So long, like since you started.

And I'm so, so happy to chat because it sounds like we've converged once again.

I know it's one of those, well, Penny Pierce would call it our soul group, just traveling in a similar soul group, similar frequency of what we're thinking about, struggling with problem solving. And we even said when we Signed onto this call like, it's as if no time has passed as we're back in 2009, and Jamie and I used to talk every day just trying to figure out what the heck we were doing in this creative realm and what is the Internet, what is a blog, what is a newsletter? So I'm just. It's so exciting because Jamie, just for all of you here listening to, let you in on my friend at her writing has always been known. I think a lot of people have followed Jamie for many, many years because it's just so authentic and real. And Jamie, I want to start with a line from radically content. You say that a lot of us fall into compare and despair, social conditioning, because we're reaching for social capital. You say many people feel as though they're living some parallel life, a sadder one, a harder one, a less than 1, because other people have so much more than they do. And it just seems like this is such a theme or something that you struggled with in your 20s. So did I. So do I. Sometimes to this day of being on social. As active as you are, could you just take us to a time where you were in this, like, compare and despair, and then what the shift is toward radically content?

Yeah, I mean, I would say if there was one thing that I alone could do to ruin a day, it would be to compare myself to someone else. I mean, God, masterful at it. Just going along, having a good day, get a little comparison in, and then just a downhill slope. I get it. I have been in this so many times what the real shift was, because at the core of it was my belief that I wasn't good enough.

And then you go on social media and you're like, well, here's all the numbers and the metrics that prove it. Finally, I have actual proof that I'm not good enough. Now, that's how the brain works. Because, you know, we want to find proof for our own, like, negative bias. And I'm trying to prove I'm good enough, try to get enough, achieve enough, become enough, all this stuff. And I was like, this is a losing game. It's also something I talk about in the book is like, it's an unwinnable game. So I recognize. I was like, there's actually no way to beat this because there's always people that are going to have more. There's always people that are going to be at a different level or have a different experience or be born into something that you think if you traded places, everything would be easier or Better. And I was like, so what's the way out of that? And what actually started working for me was like, I just need to double down on my commitments, double down on my life, on being consistent, on being disciplined in bringing things to fruition. You and I both talked about before we jumped on here, about our books and how committing to that project and being in it, like, I didn't compare myself one second while I was writing radically content because I was just so happy to be committed to the process. And I didn't sit down every day and go, all right, is this good enough? Is this going to be the book that does the thing? I was just like, you get to do this. Just be here, write it. You can edit it. You can be bad. You can write a first draft that sucks. You can have things that you don't have to be perfect at everything just showing up for yourself, for the things that really matter. Like, I think I'm most susceptible to comparison when there's something inside of me that I'm ignoring and not bringing to fruition. Even if I was bringing it to fruition with, like, tiny steps. I have to honor myself. When I honor myself, I'm less likely to go on social media and find ways to dislike myself because I'm already honoring myself. That's not even what shows up. I mean, it's not even the energy I'm putting out that's going to come back to me. It was less about, take time off social media, detox, do all these things. It was more like, I just want to enjoy being here. I like social media. I've always liked it, but how do I enjoy it without falling into that trap of comparison and the despair that comes along with it? And it was just about, okay, I'm done playing this game. Now it's just me and me and what are my commitments? How am I showing up for myself, and how dedicated am I to bringing the things that matter most to me to fruition?

I think it's so interesting how you've shifted your relationship to social media because you and I, in a way, I'm what you described. I was like, this makes me feel worse. Every time I get covetous, I start wanting things or wanting to look different than I am. And so I did that thing where I just am not on it at all. Whereas you, because you love it, and there are so many parts that you do enjoy. Just so you listeners know, back in the day, Jamie created this website, Twitter should hire me.com, and it went viral. She was on the news. You've always had this real connection and sort of savviness.

Were there times on social media where. Okay, I just have to read this line from the book too, because it will be relevant to this question. Jamie writes even innocuous advice like getting the summer body gives a subtle indication of who is worthy of summer fun. Summer is only available to those with the right body. Summer can only be fun once you've whittled yourself down into that shape. And that's what I find. At least, let's say with Instagram. It's so much about how we look and you have just embraced. I remember when you were doing your selfie a day project while you were in Cannes and traveling through France and Europe. I don't know, were there moments where you would be on social media just wishing you looked a different way? And then how did you get to that point where you go, actually, no, I love the way I look and I'm happy with it. And I'm not going to buy into this narrative that I need to have lip filler and facetune and all the things, you know, that's like, go through these trends of what I call the universal face.

Yeah. Oh, definitely. I mean, also, let's just be real. I actually, all of 2017 into 2018 and most of 2016, I was off social media. I mean, there was a full year where I did not post anything. Like, I had to take my soul back from social media. You know, I had been very online for a very long time. And I felt like every time I posted something, there was some majority, some silent majority of people who were telling me I was good enough or not. And so, of course I had to claim that back. That was really important. And I've definitely felt that comparison of, like, having that better body or looking a certain way. And I think what really helped me was recognizing that that's another one of those unwinnable games, because these are things that I've started to notice. It's just like, you can't beat this. So what do you do instead? And for me, I started actually showing more of myself. I started actually, like, taking more pictures of myself as I was. Instead of this ideal, I stopped using any kind of, like, filters, maybe some lighting, you know. Cause, I mean, I like that. But, you know, I didn't, like, do a lot of airbrushing or anything like that. And I'm a designer. I could get into Photoshop, you know, Like, I know that program. And I was like, no, there is a cost to this for me and. And for the people looking at it. And I very much had this feeling of, like, it's important for me to see myself and it's important for me to regard myself as worthy of being seen in my own life. Not because I'm perfect, not because suddenly I look a certain way, just that I'm worthy as I am. I think what's really defined a lot of the change for me has been I'm just not going to play these games anymore where there's a winner and a loser, where there's a hierarchy, where there's a ladder of who's better, who's worse, who's this. And it also helps when I look at people who seem to be living that aspirational life. Like, I live in la. I know a lot of people who seem to have that aspirational life. And I'm not saying they're not happy, because I think that's another narrative that we are overdoing, is like, they're not as happy, but it's more like they all have things like, it's not their life is perfect. They're still dealing with things. Even me. I've had a lot of those big moments that people could say, like, oh, now she must be so this and this and this. And it's like, it doesn't really do that. Like, it doesn't really solve everything. And so I apply that to the people that I'm kind of like, watching. I feel very kind of. It's a little woo, woo.

Bring the woo. We don't even apologize it.

Bring it. Bring the woo. Okay, so bring it. Well, I think that the energy that I bring to social media and what I'm searching for, if I'm searching for. And I have that belief that, like, social media will make me feel bad about myself, all I'll see is things that are just suddenly popping up. But if I go on social media and I'm like, I want to be inspired. I want to feel connected. I mean, in 2020, my Instagram community, like, probably saved me because I was so connected to people and we messaged all the time. I just had so much fun that I was like, that's my intention going into it. That's the energy I'm bringing into it. I go with me. I try to go toward, like, where I'm going, like, positive things as opposed to what I'm trying to avoid. So if I go on social media and I'm like, okay, I'm avoiding all the swimsuit pictures, I'm Avoiding all the things, it's like, that's all I'll see. And if I go into it being like, I want to feel good when I'm spending my time here and I find value and worth here for myself that I enjoy, then all of a sudden I just see, like, inspiring things and lots of fun messages that we get to, like, have real conversations and all of that. So I really think that the energy you bring to something is the energy that comes back. It takes time because you have to kind of clear out some of that conditioned clutter. But once you have that clear channel, it's like, then these things, we don't have to engage with them. It's not a universal good or bad or positive or negative. I'm just more in that, like, gray area now. When I start seeing things that are making me feel bad on social media, I'm like, all right, what's going on with me? Not them, not what's going on with them. It's what's going on with me. Right?

And it's always, like you said, a mirror.

That's where I get curious.

Yes. And what is it showing you about yourself of what little drops you want to put in your own bucket? What's your relationship to comments? Do you read them and have you developed, I won't even say a thick skin, because part of what you talk about in radically content and what you've said already is being more open, more yourself, more authentic, more transparent. What do you do? Like, do you get any negativity in the comments? Because your platform has also grown quite a bit. You have almost 150,000 followers, I think, now on Instagram. So tell us about that. How do you not let those things get to you when they cross your threshold? Or, like, will you read your one star Amazon reviews when it's time?

I will probably not read my reviews. I feel like I frontloaded the bad parts of the Internet because I used to write for a website where I would get, like, truly horrendous, the worst comments you could ever think, like, Jamie, kill yourself kind of things. And I was like, cool, this is a listicle. Like, calm down, you know? But it was really hurtful at the time. I was like, damn, people, like, hate me. And now I notice that when I get really worried about receiving these negative comments, they start showing up. And when I am focused on, like, I feel very like my platform. I'm like, I'm not available for people to hate.

Follow me.

So you're either going to be here, and if you're not into what I have to say. Please, please unfollow. And I don't even say it. Sometimes I see my unfollows, and I'm just like, bye. Okay, bye. Bye. Like, I don't hold a lot of energy of resistance towards it, because when I do, it's all of a sudden that's. That's the feeling. Those are the comments I start getting. I really will tell you that I receive very little, very little negative feedback. I feel as though my presence is. I'm not really available for it, and I'm not afraid of it. The way that I approach it. I spoke about something like a political thing recently, and I did get some feedback. Some feedback, we'll say. The way I responded, I was just like, I don't know if this made you feel better in the moment, but I think this was a really unfair characterization of what I was saying, so hope you're okay. And all the people that I responded to like that, they were like, oh, yeah, I'm really sorry. I was projecting a lot of stuff onto you. And I'm like, yeah, it's all good. Like, cool, but it's all good. And I think I kind of understand where it comes from. And I also just know that if I let myself get in my head too much about it, I'll never share anything.

Right.

And I'm also. I've already really accepted the fact that, like, there are people that are not gonna like my book, because there are books that I don't, like, imagine.

I know, right?

It's like, some of the biggest books that people recommend to me all the time. I'm like, it didn't do it for me, you know? And it's like, fine, because also, it's like, you don't know what that person's headspace is. I don't know. So I think this has relieved me. Instead of being like, oh, I hope there's never one person that doesn't like this book. It's like, it's gonna happen. Like, Jamie, you know it's gonna happen.

As you said, you're so right that you went through online troll bootcamp way before it got really bad. Like, you were always there on the front lines of it. I will say so. You just had to learn how to deal with that so much more. And it's just really incredible to see where you've come with it, the place you got. And I love hearing how you respond. And you're so right about the book. I mean, my books, sometimes you get a One star review because it arrived dented. You know, there's just nothing that I could have done.

I remember you just, like, made me remember that so much of Twitter should hire me. That whole viral moment, like, you can't even believe the comments that I got. Because I also wrote this article, this post for a very famous blogger at the time who was like, oh, we gotta publish during your viral moment. And people were like, vicious. And this was not a time where you could go on Twitter and be like, people are being mean to me. And everyone's like, oh, being a woman on the Internet. I didn't know that being a woman on the Internet was like a scary thing. And I was just like, everyone really hates me. I mean, they think I'm an actual idiot. So that sucks. And it was hard, but it kind of made me go. I feel a little bulletproof now because I was 23 at that time, 24, and I was getting hit. Now there's like a whole conversation about being a woman online. At that point, I was just like, why is this happening to me? Like, why are people so mean and they're behind their anonymous little keyboards? And I really didn't have a lot of tools for that. I mean, I never want to say, like, something that was traumatic makes me stronger, but it kind of did because I was like, you can't get to me because the worst has been said.

Yes. I always share one of my one star reviews. I'm sure you remember it. Cause it was from life after college. If you've never thought about anything ever, this book is for you. It's like, I don't know. I just, like, I hold it close to my heart because I don't know what else could be said. Like, it's so well said. And my husband Michael was like, that was your original troll. Like troll number one. And I get it. It's not for everyone. It's for recent graduates learning how to adults in the world and. But it kind of makes me laugh because it's what you said. I did a podcast on free time called 11th Hour Creative Gremlins, where at the 11th hour of finishing up the manuscript, right that moment before sending it to the printer, where you can't take anything back and all the mistakes are just gonna be baked in for eternity. It feels like I had all these gremlins rush in like, you're not good enough. It's not good enough. It's not there yet. People are gonna pick this apart and this. And I just realized that, I mean, thank goodness I Kind of kept those at bay most of the rest of the process. But I really wouldn't create anything ever. And I think you and I have been doing this so long, 15 years, that.

I don't know, I reached a point where if I were to really listen to those voices, they're always there. I don't even try to make them go away anymore. They're just there. I just wouldn't create. And so I would rather create and open it up to the one stars. And by the way, a lot of those one stars are things I've already thought about myself in the works. They're not that surprising. Usually the ones that you've gotten that are truly vicious, that I think is just supremely uncalled for. But a well thought out one star review is like, hey, I get it. I'm so totally with you. You know, I just want to be like, oh, yeah, I hear you. I would have changed those too. Right? Like, hey, when you're right, you're right.

I mean, I feel like my one stars are going to be, like, very. There's no research. And I'm like, yeah, you're right, you're right. It's not. I'm not a journalist. I didn't write from research. Like, that might be it. I don't know. You're right. I mean, you have to know that it's going to happen. And if you let it get in your head, you really will never create. And that's not an option for me because that hurts worse. Also, I will tell you that the worst thing I could ever think of actually did happen. So the day that I did my cover reveal for Radically Content on my.

Social media, which I love, one of my favorite covers I've ever seen, truly.

Isn't it amazing?

It's gorgeous. Stunning. Jaw dropping. I forwarded it to a friend.

Yeah, I didn't forward it, so I'm able to totally gush about it. But I've never seen a cover like that, so it's really cool. But I did this big cover reveal and I. It was like things exploded in a way that I was not expecting. You know, I thought, okay, cool. People like it. But what also happened is a longtime client of mine who was also sort of like a second mom, like someone that I had known for, like 10 years. She was just so close to me. I trusted her with everything. Two weeks before, we had just talked about the book I had sent her. The COVID like, beforehand was so excited. She was so excited for me. She texts me and accuses Me of stealing her outline for the book? No.

Yeah.

Like, within 20 minutes of me putting that cover up. It was so shocking, because I literally think that it took me so long to actually write a book because I wanted it to be so original and so different. Like, I'm such a proponent of, like, I try not to even read a lot of nonfiction books, read a lot of things on Instagram so that my channel is, like, totally clear. It just came out of left field. I was devastated. And it was like that biggest fear of, like, when you become successful, there's a target on your back. That had been my fear for a long time. Like, people will be jealous, and they don't want to see you do well. You know, I had that in my head. And then this, like, out of nowhere, you know, even got into, like, you'll be hearing from my lawyer. And I was like, what? Like, this is a person who wanted to hire me to ghostwrite her entire course. And now I'm being accused of stealing her, like, pitiful little outline. That was nothing.

Like, so how did you resolve it?

Nothing. I was like, this is completely out of line. I cannot believe you would ever, ever think this. And at first, I was really devastated. But then, honestly, I had to do a little thinking. Cause I had been consulting for her for a long time. But I went back, and I was like, I've had this idea since, like, at least 2013. I have documents on my computer. So I kind of, like, built a little case for myself. I'm like, if this becomes anything. But I also recognize that she was a good teacher for me, actually, because she was a little bit older. I mean, at least 30 years older than me. 20 or 30. And she's never published a book despite wanting to her whole life, she hasn't done her course. Still to this day. It's been years and years that she's been talking about it. She hasn't brought anything into the world. And I was like, see, Jamie, this is what happens when you leave your gifts inside of you. You start getting angry at everybody else, and you think they're taking your ideas. They're the ones. Like, if I had to come up with that idea, I'd be seeing that same success. You get bitter, you get angry. You let it eat you away like it's a poison. And it actually strengthened my resolve. And I was like, you will do all the things that are on your heart in this lifetime, however long you get to be here. Because that. That end game is sad. Because there's no way I would ever. Also. An outline is not a book, as we know. Right.

And we are all as we know. You just said that. I wish we are tapping into a collective consciousness. So we were just saying before we hit record, how many books are about pivoting now. And that's cool. I mean, I had people set up entire pivot coaching businesses when I first Googled. Of course, I pivot was in lean Startup. And maybe Eric Reese thinks that I stole his word. I don't know. But long story short, at some point, you realize we're all in the flow here. We're all tapping into the collective, trying to serve. And yes, we build on each other. And when it's outright plagiarism, of course we're gonna pipe up about that. But you're right that it does become a poison inside to leave the gifts. And I think one of the biggest messages of your book that I love is joy for Joy's sake. And that's something that I share in Free time is so similar to you in the conclusion, it's like free time does not exist in the future. It's a way of being now. That same thing. Joy, equanimity, free time. We need to claim them now because they don't exist far off in the future. They happen now. And I thought it was so powerful. I just want to read. You mentioned this idea of waiting, whether it was your former client or you. And in the book, you say, I've spent too much of my life waiting. Waiting to be successful, waiting to be thin. Waiting for everything to line up, waiting to live, Waiting to earn my joy, my satisfaction, my contentment. I found myself addicted to the purgatory of waiting for my life to get good. That's what I waited for. Permission.

Mics drop girl. If our yeti mics weren't connected to our booms, like, if both of us are looking at video, it would be dropped on the floor right now.

Yeah.

So good.

That's a big part of radically content. Because I even did a talk yesterday at Google. I talked to some Googlers, actually love it. Yeah. About some early Googlers. And the whole thing was like, well, what would you say to people who are skeptical about being content? And I'm like, that's a great question. Because at that age, when I was 23, fresh out of college or whatever, I was like, contentment, that's giving up. That's complacency.

You even say in the book, it's totally uncool to write a book on me on being content because you used to identify with that anxiety, you say? I used to love my pessimism, my skepticism, my rallying cries, that being happy is just a delusion, that your negativity give you an edge. Yeah. And people do think that without that ambition, they're gonna like, I don't know, fall into the abyss.

They're gonna fall into the abyss. And it's so funny because when I break it down, I'm like, wait, okay, so let's, let's think about this for a second. You're doing all the things you have, the anxiety you want to achieve, you want to make all these things happen because you think it'll make you happy and joyful. And yet being happy and joyful in the moment is available to you, but you don't want that. You want to earn it. Because how does that work? If you could just be happy and content and joyful and satisfied in the moment. Why are you not taking that? Because we think like, oh, it's all going to fall apart. And I'm not going to get that social capital. I'm not going to be impressive to others. I'm not going to get what they've told us that we're supposed to get. And then you recognize, you're like, wait a second, it's a myth. I could just be content now. I'm as content as I've ever been and yet I can't even believe what's happening in my life right now. There are things that are happening that I've been dreaming about my whole life that I can't even talk about yet because they're so hush hush. And it's all based on my contentment with my current life, like loving my days. You know, I always want space in my life. Even when I'm busy. I'm like, where's the space? Where's the moment that I can like connect back to myself? What are my non negotiables? Because I just don't think you get to earn it. Like something that I said to the Googlers was like, it just doesn't click in the way that you think it will. It doesn't just appear one day when you've done enough. It just doesn't. Because I mean, you and I both know we're impressive people. We do a lot of things right. We're creative, we do things. That was something that we were drawn to each other in the beginning was like this ambition, the hustle, that type of thing thing. And I recognized, I was like, I have done so many things and it's still not clicking in. Like, the joy is still not clicking in. That's still hard. I still feel like there's this long road I still have to climb and suffer for in order to get where I think I need to be. And I was like, I'm done, you know, Like, I can't do it anymore. I think contentment might work better. Like, I was like, I think it works better when you just, like, love your life and everything else. Like, you said this before we jumped on this, that it's just icing. Like, all the things that I get to do, it's just icing. I mean, like, I take care of my bills. I have to pay the bills, of course. And then anything that's like, just extra, it's icing. Like, that's how I feel about writing books. I'm like, I don't have to do this. And I don't think this feeling of, if I don't write a book, I will die. Like, I call this the American Idol syndrome. It's like, the people who audition for American Idol, and they're like, if I don't do music, my whole life will be for nothing. And then they're not good. And you're like, okay, let's get a new hobby. Let's get a new thing. Like, it's okay. We'll be fine. And I think, like, I never want to fall into that, even with the things that I love, because I'm like, I don't want to put that much pressure. I don't want to put all my happiness and joy and everything in my life on, like, is radically content. Going to be the biggest book of the year or not. You know, it's like, I don't know.

Probably won't again. That's fine. And how can everybody have the biggest book of the year? We can't all do that. And I am, like, I'm fine with that. I just want to be happy with the process. I just want to enjoy the journey. I want to be present, like, right now, be present in this conversation, not secretly how I used to be, where half of me was present and half of me was just straight up anxiety about all the things.

I'm not there really fully.

Yeah.

We'll be right back, just after this.

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As you said, it's not just comparison that steals joy, but that waiting I loved one of your newsletters that you wrote a couple months ago was talking about the big moments of achievement and when you get there, how short it really is, how short lived the feeling. And this is what I love about Jim Carrey, who says, you know, I wish everyone could be famous so they could truly understand it's not all that it's cracked up to be. It's not the answer. And as you said, you live in la and in your newsletter it was so good because you were saying, I wonder what happens.

Not just the day.

After they've won the Oscar. Haven't we all heard somebody talk about winning the Oscar? And they go home and like their child is throwing like a dirty diaper at them and they go, ah, shit, I'm still just a mom when I get home, you know. And I've had these moments too, where on the outside the moment itself looks really glamorous. And then sometimes that same day I'll end up in a fit of tears over something else altogether.

I don't know.

I don't know about you, because I got to a point where I feel deeply satisfied because like you said, I'm pursuing my craft and that's all I can ever do. And so it's this feeling of pursuing. It's the paradox of it. It's like doing the creating, doing the dreaming, playing a game of it, seeing what's possible and then also surrendering to it and just saying. And whatever shows up is what's meant to be.

That's exactly where I'm at. It's like if I get the inspiration, if I have an idea, I'm going to pursue it 100%. But the result, I'm going to release it. Because things have come together in ways I could never plan for. And I think there's a certain magic to if you do creative work and most everybody does in their own way, I mean, whatever their passion is, or even if it's not your work, but it's just your passion. It really is this feeling of recognizing that you take the joy out of the creating by trying to control the outcome so much. I think about all the times where I created this plan, create a plan out of nowhere, usually based on what someone on social media was doing. So I'm like, oh, that looks good. I'll just, you know, do that and I'll create a plan. And then I've completely came up with this plan out of nowhere. And then I hold myself hostage to it and get super disappointed that my plan I made up is not going the way that I expected it to. As if, like, I am just all knowing and I know what's supposed to happen. And so I get really humbled by that. And I got really humbled by those big moments, not feeling the way that I expected them to feel or that my younger self, I think, would have kind of projected all of these. Like, well, now they must be. I don't know what's supposed to happen, but something happens that I have yet to experience. And now I feel like what I was thinking about was there's this. If your whole life is in pursuit of those big moments, there's a big gap between those moments. And that gap, then, is so desolate.

Think of, like, a gap of just, like, endless desert. And so by the time you hit this goalpost, it has to be so good that it makes up for all that suffering and striving and pushing and all the neglect of your physical health and your relationships and your relationship with yourself and everything. And it has to make up for such a long gap. But think about if, like, the gap between those big moments was filled with, like, lush greenery and beautiful flowers, and you stop and you, like, hang out on a bench for a while, and you're like, wow, what a great sandwich I'm eating. And, like, hang out with a friend. And you do different things, and you just, like, fill your life with all these little joys. And then that big moment, it doesn't have to fill such a big gap. You're just like, well, this is cool. This is just the cherry on top of an already beautiful life that everybody. I mean, if you look at it, if you really break it down, like, even someone like Gwyneth Paltrow, let's say, who probably has this idealized. I don't idealize her, but I know a lot of people do. And even her, what she talks about when she does her interviews. I watched this, like, interview about her new house because I'm just curious. And she talks about cooking for friends. You know, she doesn't talk about, I sit in my veranda and think about how famous I am. She talks about, like, I love this kitchen because I love to cook. Okay, so she has a nice kitchen, but she still cooks. I mean, she's still. These are her simple pleasures broken down. Like, even people like that, they're finding those simple pleasures and finding the simplicity in life and returning to the simplicity even when they're at places that we idealize and aspire to in many ways. And that has been a good teacher for me of taking that kind of stuff off the pedestal of, like, my whole life is not in pursuit of these big moments that mostly look very impressive externally but don't really change your perception of yourself. I mean, this has been a new thing that has started. And I don't say this to brag in any way, but it's just funny where people that I've known for a very long time seem to think I'm now, like, famous. They're like, oh, my God. I'm, like, talking to a famous person. And I'm like. I am literally the person that, like, I'm the same person as I was. I don't see myself in that way. I don't see myself as these, like, kind of big visions that people have. Once you start hitting these certain milestones, their perception of you changes. Not your own perception of yourself, which is very interesting. I've heard a lot of people, especially in Hollywood, talk about that, where it's other people's perceptions that changes of you, but your own perception doesn't change as much. And it's a good reminder, because I think a lot of people who maybe don't have that kind of access or are not experiencing that they can feel like their own lives are kind of less than. And they're not. It's like everybody returns to the simplicity. No matter where they're at, no matter what they've achieved, the happiness of their lives is in the days of their lives, how they spend their days, how they show up for themselves, how present are they to their own life? Like, I can tell you, it doesn't matter if you have success, if you are not present to it because it doesn't feel like success, then if you don't feel like it's enough, it doesn't matter how much you have or what you've achieved. It just never feels like enough.

And Then you're sort of a crunchy, grumpy, anxious person with your loved ones until just the right day, but then that day doesn't come. And I also believe that in free time I say how we bake is as important as what we make. That I believe it's infused into the beautiful vision you described of the lush greenery and stopping for a sandwich and a walk with a friend. It gets baked into what we're creating. I believe on an energetic level, what we create is more soul connected and people can tell. And I know that a lot of people have ghostwriters for books, but in my personal opinion, the book has a ghost in it because there's this intermediary and some of them are very successful. But I personally would want to know who the assistant was. Like put their name on the COVID with so and so and like they have poured so much in. And just to add on to what you said, I think of when putting too much pressure on a creative project to succeed, the comparison I use, it's like putting a child into a beauty pageant, like, you better win this pageant so the family can eat is like telling pivot. That's the metaphor that came to me with pivot is like I was putting so much pressure on it to save my business that it wasn't fair. It may happen, but I can't put that pressure onto it as like the savior of my life and self worth and my business and my finances. And like it needs to be this lightning rod for every opportunity. Now I hope that the books create their own serendipity and magic and they do, they always have for me. But it is such a dance of not expecting that and waiting for that. And then I also just wanted to say I love what you said. This thing of people thinking you're famous. Curious what makes them. I'd be curious what indicators they are seeing that give them that feeling. And I know for me, I mean, you and I, we were talking about cupcake tweet ups. Whenever I'm online, I'm trying to bring good energy. I just don't want to bring my worst down or most like lame energy. I'm not going to put it online. So it's hard. Sometimes I would go to these like coffee meetups or a conference and just be in a different mood than what people see online. And so it's weird how people expect kind of one dimensional. Now I'm not saying I'm a famous person, but like we expect famous people to be a certain way. Then when really they're just like the rest of us. And they have good days and bad and days they want to be talking, engage, and days that they don't. And I think it must be incredibly difficult to be somebody who people come up to. And I feel entitled to snap a photo. And I don't know. I don't know where that came from, because it doesn't really have to do with the radically content, but I think just to what you said of, like, the humanity behind what's actually going on and what we're seeing. So I'm curious, what is it that had people think you had hit some new level that, on the inside, was different?

I think when I got verified on Instagram, I noticed a very big shift of, like, even the people that I had messaged with previously many times were like, my God, I can't believe I'm, like, messaging with a famous person. And I'm like, it's just a check mark that I got. It changed people's perception in that it went from like, ooh, you're like a somebody now. And I'm like, okay. I don't really see myself as that way because I show up the exact same. And I think, you know, I even had people just specifically say that. And I think people seeing my writing getting shared by lots of different people. Some people with very big platforms.

You were on Sophia Bush's podcast. That was very exciting.

Yeah, that was very exciting. Yes. I mean, it was. And I'm not saying it's not exciting. It is, because I've dreamt of this. But it's also what you were saying is so apt that, like.

When you have that lush garden, so much of life just feels even more fun. Like, even though all this stuff is happening, like, nothing touches how fun it was to write radically content. That's a big thing with me, with books. I notice a lot of authors, and I get it. It can be a very hard process. But when they spend their whole time promoting or talking about their book as if it was the hardest thing they've ever written, I'm like, or ever done. Yeah.

Not even just written, like, the hardest mountain to climb of all time. Yes.

Not sure that I'm like, signing on to read that. That seems real tough thing to kind of overcome sometimes. If it's a really hard subject matter or really something like that, of course I get it. But I told myself, I'm like, jamie, you don't get to write a book called radically Content and be suffering through this process. That's not going to Add up. You got to figure out a process where you really enjoy creating this thing. And especially know that it's like no one put a gun to my head and told me, you got to write a book. Like, I chose to do this. That was another thing. It's like, I choose this. I'm doing this because it's a privilege, like what we talked about. And it's something that I love. Like, I came to writing because I love it and it didn't mean that there weren't challenging times. I'm sure you had that too, where like the writing wasn't flowing or you were tired or felt a little pressure. I mean, I had a very short timeline to write Radically Content because of the publishing schedule. But I was just like, you know what? I know myself. It'll get there. I just trusted and I wanted to. Like you said, this is something Elizabeth Gilbert talks about a lot in her book Big Magic, that like every idea has a consciousness. And so I truly believe that that like, yes, I mean, the name for Radically Content. I knew I was going to write a book, but because I got the book deal based on a pretty bare bones outline and we were titling it and the name came out of nowhere. I had a list of probably 200 names that I was playing around with. And when I got Radically Content, I was like, whoosh. The whole world of this book just came to me perfectly. And I was like, okay, this is the Elizabeth Gilbert Big Magic moment where like the idea drops into your consciousness and it is your task to bring it to fruition. And I was like, this is my task to infuse as much of the principles of this book. Like, I wanted the energy of Radically Content to reflect Radically Content. And I was, yeah, like, that is such a big part of it. And I also, I didn't want to lie to people. I was so happy that I was in such a good place. I felt like I was like, I really needed to heal, to be able to write this. And I felt so grateful that I was able to do that. And it really carried me. And I think all that work, like you said, of like creating joy in my life on a day to day basis, having my habits and my rituals and all these things that I really do to keep myself feeling really good. It just made the process so much more fun. And I was like, oh, I get it now. I get how all of it serves a purpose.

That's so beautifully said. And it is incredible to click in. We had such similar parallel paths without realizing it. I had so much fun writing, free time. Whereas life after college was a total grind, like wrestling with my demons every day, you know.

Ah.

And free time was so fun. I was actually sad when the writing process ended. It was also very fast and accelerated. And I got sad because I'm like, oh, my God, I've had so much fun, you know, I'm like, I guess it's time to move on to the next phases. But it was so informative to know what's possible to get in that pocket and get in the zone. And as you said, for anyone who has a creative spirit, I love what you said about Liz Gilbert, and I love big magic. That pivot was a very spiritual writing process, as was free time, where it's like, I am the shepherd. I am the messenger. I hold that. You gotta hold that idea in your heart and just ask it, like, what do you need now? How about now, how can I help you reach who you're meant to reach? And then even the launch. I was just telling Jamie at South by Southwest, I gave away 150 books, and I'm very shy in person, but I'm like, this is my homework. I gotta put them on tables and give them to people and just set these books free into the world. Like, just imagine them flying to the people they need to reach and trusting that that's how it's gonna happen. Because I agree it's so pointless to write a book. And that's. I think that also the irony of choosing a book topic is that life will test you in exactly that subject matter so that you know from the inside out by the time it launches, that you are qualified to talk about it. Not in a striving way, just in a. Oh, yeah, I know this in my bones now.

Yeah, you gotta have that conviction. And I don't ever want to call anyone out because I think it is hard to do self promotion. But I do notice when people seem to promote as if everything they're saying is an apology. Sorry, I wrote a book. Like, Sorry, I need your attention for a second. Would you mind. Would you mind caring a little about this book?

Don't want to bug you, but I just wanted to let you know it's launch day.

Yeah. Like a little news. My book came out today. And you're like, that's a thing. Like you did. You know, you gotta shout it from the rooftops. I mean, it can be uncomfortable, but at the same time, you gotta have that conviction that.

By the time I wrote Radically Content, I was like, I know. I want to Write books. Because I tried not to. I tried to not write books. I tried to write books that then got very rejected, okay? So by the time this has shown up, I now know that, like, unfortunately, I want to write books. So I'm just gonna have to figure out a way to do this in a joyful way. And I was very surprised by how much I was able to find so much satisfaction. I felt the same way when it was done. I was like, oh, no. I even like the editing. This made it so much better. And when my editor was like, it's done. I was like, oh, no, I want it back.

I liked all the boundaries I had to set.

Right. I love that feeling that everyone goes, oh, don't bother her. She's writing a book. As you said, I gave myself permission to be a hermit. Like, oh, oh, I'm writing a book. Protect my time at all costs. And I was so like, ooh. It's just. It was a different level of permission.

It was. I mean, I did everything in service of that book. It was such a laser focus. It was like, yes, okay, Jamie, you're done writing for the day. Go to the beach, go on a walk, get your vibe up, get your energy back. What do you want to eat? What's going to make you feel good? How are you going to show up for tomorrow? Go to sleep, do your thing. I guess that hermit mode, laser focus, it made me realize how much I love that. And I can't do it every single month. Like, I liked the rest after it, as it turned out. But I want that at least a few times a year where I'm just like, bye, bye, cave time.

Like, hermit mode.

See you on the other side.

Well, you dedicated this book to the non conformists, rebels and sensitive souls. I love that you've combined those three. You say, may we continue to be bold, brave and open. I normally ask this on free time. This episode now, I want to air it everywhere. It might be on Pivot, but I'd love to ask you, what permission would you like to give to fellow sensitive souls and nonconformists?

I would like to give the permission that you may think it's a negative or a flaw, but actually it is the source of your strength, your creativity. If you can learn to harness it, learn to accept it, and then one day love will carry you. It will make you feel more you than you've ever been. Like, there's a reason you feel that way, and it's not to deny it of yourself or say, the world needs to change. For me to feel okay with yourself, accept it within, harness it, celebrate it, honor it, cherish it, and watch as things start to really bloom.

I love that. So well said, listeners. You've got to get your copy of Radically Content Being satisfied in an endlessly dissatisfied world. And Jamie, where else would you like to send people to keep in touch?

You can find me on my website, jamievaron.com but mostly Instagram, Amievaran Facebook page. If anyone's still on Facebook, I'm @JamieWarren there Twitter amievaran and just got creative and used my own name everywhere.

I love it. Well, way to get your handle everywhere. And I'll put all these links in the show notes. It's Jamie J A M I E. Just so you know where to put that. I. Cause it moves. It moves depending on the Jamie. It's so weird for me to use your name, Jamie. I feel like I'm giving your like government name because to me you're at.

Yeah, I know.

And I'm underscore. And this has just been such a joy, listeners. Jamie also has a course on living with intention. If you want to check that out again, I'll throw it all in the show notes. Thank you so much for being here. It's just such a true, true joy to connect and just do it live. We both joked. I'm like, I only have friends because I have a podcast. So I appreciate us both coming out of our cave. Thank goodness we wrote books so that we could catch up after all this time.

I know, I know. Thank you so much. It was an honor. And it was like just catching up as if no time has passed at all. My cheeks actually hurt from smiling.

Me too. Me too. We didn't even want to turn video off normally. I always turn it off and got to see your shining, beautiful face. So thank you listeners for indulging us in this reunion and for being here listening. I appreciate you all so much.

Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the Pivot podcast. Make sure you don't miss an episode or my insider tips and templates by signing up for Pivotlist, a curated twice monthly newsletter where I share the inside scoop on what I'm reading, watching, listening to and the latest tools I'm geeking out on. Sign up@pivotmethod.com pivotlist get show notes from this episode@pivotmethod.com podcast and connect with me on Twitter ennyblake.

Remember, build first, then your courage will follow. Hasn't it always.

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