283: What Are You Here to Do? How to Find a Path That Fits with Adrian Klaphaak

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Laid off from a job. You can't get laid off from your purpose. There's that thing that's going to be guiding someone no matter what is going on. Whether there's a pandemic or not. They move or not, they quit or not. They don't need the job in order to do the thing. It's like they're going to find a way to do the thing. And certainly the right job supports the expression of one's purpose tremendously. But their fulfillment, their impact, is not dependent on a job. It's deeper than that.

What's next? This is a question we're all having to ask and answer more frequently. I'm Jenny Blake, your host of the Pivot podcast and author of the only move that Matters is your next one.

For show notes from this episode, visit pivotmethod.com podcast if Change is the only constant, then let's get better at it. Here we go.

Hello, hello my friends. You are in for such a special treat today. For the first time ever, so long overdue, my very first coach and longtime friendor Adrienne Klaffak is here today. Adrian busted out of corporate life long before me when I had my coaching sessions at Google. That changed my life. My coach said, why don't you talk to someone? Why don't you see if this is something you'd want to get into? I had a call with Adrian and never looked back. He was so encouraging. He was just talking about going his own way as a coach, a purpose guide. He's a longtime entrepreneur therapist. He founded his own coaching business long before mine called the Path that Fits, and it has been such an honor and a joy to go through business building together our parallel Pivot paths. Adrian is the COVID blurb for my first book, Life After College. I learned so much from him as a coach when I started going through training in 2008, and I just appreciate his deep, calm, wise presence. He's always had it. We've known each other 15 years now. And I partnered with Adrian. I decided not to create a figure out your next move course because he already did it. So if you want to learn more and enroll in his fantastic group program, you can go to pivotmethod.com career pathfinder. Adrian, welcome to the show.

Thank you, Jenny. I think the introduction that I was your first coach is maybe my ultimate claim to fame. So, yes, it's great to be here.

Isn't it funny when you see coaches and then they like, blast their clients all over the website? Like, I always felt really shy about doing that. I felt so strong about the confidentiality of clients. And then I never wanted my coaches. I always felt weird hiring someone if I had any inkling that, like, a couple years down the road they were just going to blast me on their website.

I don't know if that's a weird paranoia.

No, I think it's respectful. Absolutely. Yeah. And I feel like you've been a coach to me. I don't know that I've paid you or hired you specifically as coach, but we've had a million conversations and emails over the years in which you've provided amazing guidance on growing my business, doing it in a way that feels authentic and true for me. So I've really valued your coaching over the years as well.

Well, thank you. It's been interesting because we were both kind of early to this space, at least early at the moment that the Internet was truly going wide in terms of being able to for any business owner to create a presence online. And you were really early at generating Yelp reviews, becoming like a go to career coach in the Bay Area. In these last 15 years, you have probably worked with either one on one or through your programs and your partner coaches, thousands of people. And I don't have to tell you, we've been going through a lot the last few years. So I'm just curious, what patterns have you seen emerging lately that maybe weren't even the case 15 years ago?

Yeah, that's a good question. I think what I've seen is actually fairly consistent across time. And it may just be about who I am and who we are and how we describe the work that we do and the work that we do.

What I've seen is that people are searching for deeper meaning, more fulfillment, and I think purpose in particular is more relevant, more talked about, more desired now than ever. But it's kind of always been there, even if people haven't said explicitly, I want to know my purpose. For as long as I've been coaching which is, as you were saying, 15 years or even a little more now, people have been wanting to find something more fulfilling, more authentic, like, what am I really here to do? So I would say that's been consistent across time. And I certainly think the pandemic and what we're calling the Great Resignation and those related forces have brought up the really big questions for people. It's like we were all going along in our lives, challenging, as they already were. And then the pandemic comes and throws everything upside down, creates huge challenges, and. And in all that upheaval, I think people started to really reflect and ask themselves, what do I really want to do? What am I doing? Am I really happy? What am I here to do? And that is the question. I have always loved to sit with people in and guide people into a deeper knowing and clarity of who they are and what they're here to do.

There was a recent article in the New York Times called, the World's a Mess, so They've Stopped saving for tomorrow.

Specifically, this article is about young adults under 35, quote, throwing financial caution to the wind. I don't know about you and what you saw with your clients, but I noticed my appetite for risk actually grew in 2021 because I felt like, well, the world is upside down anyway. Nothing is guaranteed anyway. I'm going to follow my bliss. As Joseph Campbell would say, have you seen something similar? Because career change inherently comes with so much fear about providing for ourselves, making the right move, the wrong move. It's not always that easy to change. So I'm just curious what you've seen in terms of people's relationship to risk or even your own.

Yeah, I do think people are more willing to take risks now. I think there's something, too, about the initial confinement of the pandemic and everybody feeling exasperated with that. So much external control that there was this collective desire to break free of that. And so risk, yes. People were taking more risks. People were moving, quitting. I mean, those are two huge ones. Thinking about, what do I really want to do? And willing to jump into the unknown because there was already so much unknown at the same time, I'll say, I think there's another experience that people are having where there's so much uncertainty with the pandemic and so many things are unstable that they were less willing to take risks and wanted to hunker down and wait. And I can totally understand that approach as well.

You've also been really intentional with how you've built a path that fits how you've built Career Pathfinder, which is your flagship kind of group program. You. You have a whole process that you take people through, and a big chunk of that early part of the process is very introspective and deep, whereas I think a lot of people want to jump into looking at job roles and applying and sending out resumes. So can you tell us about the inner work that happens when somebody is in the midst of career change or change is on the horizon and they know, they're kind of getting antsy and they're ready to make moves?

Yes. I am grateful for the question because that has been so core to my approach and I think core to what's really worked for clients to find a calling and do work that they love sustainably. So I will always start with somebody. I always hear the question, what should I do next? Or what should I do? And I always say, that's a good question. It's not the first question to ask. Let's put that on the side. Instead of asking, what should I do? Ask yourself, who am I? The reason for that initial question, who am I? Is because I want your work to be an expression of who you are, of what your gifts are, of what you love to do, of how you're wired, of what really matters to you, of your purpose. And so I'll always guide people through that deeper discovery process first. And for some people, there's an epiphany like, wow, I did realize this was the thing that I love, or I really didn't know that that was my gift. And for other people, it's not so new as much as it's a remembering and a reconnection to, and then a deeper confidence in ownership of those things that they're good at or that thing that they love, or the clarity of, like, oh, yeah, my purpose. I guess it has been there all along. And now, knowing these things, it's so much easier to come to the question, what should I do? Because what should I do is really be who I am, use my gifts, do what I love, express my purpose, live it out. And so instead of having a million careers feel possible, there are a handful of careers, and then they can go and explore those things and listen to which one feels most like me, which one resonates most deeply, which one can I see myself doing am I most excited about doing? So it's much easier to answer the what should I do with my life Question when you know who you are.

Yeah, I was going to say, who am I? That's the eternal question.

Right. Living in it is.

What do you say to somebody who's midway through, let's say, whether it's career pathfinder or just their own process, and they hit the dip, they're discouraged and they go, I just don't know if there's work out there for who I am and what I love. And they feel that they're just hitting one wall after another.

Yeah. I'd say first of all, welcome to the dip. Welcome to the discouragement part of any meaningful big journey. It's normal, it's painful. Yeah. It is not comfortable at all. And it's okay, you know, it's normal. This is just one part of the process. And so I think it could look differently for different people, what they need to do to move through that place. For some people, maybe it's just continuing to explore. So follow those gifts that you've discovered, follow the things that you love, follow your purpose and start talking to people who are doing work in those areas or do it yourself. Start a project, volunteer, take a class or a course, test drive it. Like actually get an experience of doing the thing. Not necessarily quit your job and go do it, get your hands dirty, start doing it, tinkering and see what that does for you. So I think in those ways, sort of continuing to explore is helpful in moving through the dip. And then for other people, I think it may be useful to look at like what is really keeping me stuck here, what am I afraid of, what am I concerned about? Like, we all have such good reason to be freaked out, worried, anxious when making a big change and so we can't avoid those things. So I'll really encourage people to turn into it, you know, what are you scared about? And let's air those things out and let's figure out how can we be with them, how can we take care of those things, how can we shift our perspective around those things so that we can move forward with less resistance?

I don't do one on one coaching anymore, but I always used to talk to people about when their energy shifts. It's incredible how the outer world shows up and it sounds farcical, you know, like, I don't even know if that's a word. It sounds like it can't possibly be true. But I'm curious if you've seen the same thing where when they do ask those deeper questions and look where they're stuck or maybe what's serving them by being stuck, as per the book, the courage to be disliked, the world responds. And I'm just so Curious what you've seen on that front.

Yeah, it points back, I think, to the inner work and how important that is in finding one's calling and in making a big change. And so I have definitely seen that. And it's mysterious too. It's like what works for one person may not work for somebody else. So somebody else just continues to push themselves to explore further and further beyond their comfort zone until they have that one conversation with somebody and the light bulb goes off and they're like, ah, this thing, you know, this is my niche. This is what I know I really want to do. And for other people, it's not about more exploring, you know, it's about that inner shift. So maybe for them, it's like they're realizing, well, I'm not excited to move forward because I haven't really admitted to myself this other thing that feels totally impractical, but that I'm wild about, that I really want to go and do. And it isn't until that gets unearthed and I can remember this happening with clients, many clients, it's not until that thing gets unearthed and admitted that they have that shift in energy. And then it's like there's no stuck anymore. They've connected to that calling, that purpose, that thing, and they're really off to the races. Like, I would not want to get in their way. Of course I wouldn't. But it's just like I can feel that energy in them that you're talking about. And then the practical steps, the what's next, it's so much less relevant because I know they're feeling it, they're on their path and they're going to go and make it happen almost no matter what.

Yes, that's so true. Where that energy kicks in and that renewed. Right. It's like on the other side of the dip. I love that too. Where you can just see it's so not about the coaching anymore. Now it's like the real world just needs to catch up with what they've seen in their mind. And so they do the real world steps, but the vision is already there that they're building toward.

Yeah. And I think that's the power and value of being connected to one's purpose is that like a job can come and go. You could get laid off from a job. You can't get laid off from your purpose. There's that thing that's going to be guiding someone no matter what is going on, whether there's a pandemic or not, they move or not, they quit or not they don't need the job in order to do the thing. It's like they're going to find a way to do the thing. And certainly the right job supports the expression of one's purpose tremendously. But their fulfillment, their impact is not dependent on a job. It's deeper than that. And then they've got that energy that you're talking about.

That's such a good line. You can be laid off from a job, but you can't be laid off from your purpose. What a singer. I love it.

We'll be right back just after this.

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This episode is brought to you by. Oops. I've got a box of Cheez It Crackers staring at me and I just wanted that irresistible Cheesy crunch. Sorry, that was a total snackcident.

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Okay? Speaking of purpose, you created a job for yourself. You were a management consultant. You pivoted to self employment very early on. Again before it was all the rage. And it's been a while now, again over 15 years. So I'm curious. Sometimes people laugh at me in my BFF community that I'll be talking about some pricing conundrum. And they're like the cobbler has no shoes. What do you mean you struggle with this? Like we need help with pricing. You know you can't struggle with it. And they're kidding, of course, because I'm always very transparent about my growth edges and whatnot. Within the container of your own business. We could say you're working on purpose. With purpose. And yet I'm sure you've gone through many dips as a business owner where you've hit many walls. And I'm just so Curious, what do you do when you get stuck because you're the coach, you know, everybody's looking to you. How do you coach yourself through those moments where you feel that the kind of life force, the qi has gone out, the air has gone out of the balloon a little bit on your career, even though the macro container is still true, you still might want to be self employed.

Yes, this definitely happens. I have the same question for you who I'm curious about. I think we've connected around some of these challenges in the past and supported each other through those places. So the first thing I do, I feel like I'm slow to admit it, you know, is just the truth. I will try to work harder, longer before I am honest with myself, like, oh, I need to take a step back. And so for me it usually has to do with some form of exhaustion, physical or health, pain or challenge or some circumstance sort of making it so obvious to me that I need to take a step back. And I'm not proud of that, but that's just real. And so usually then what comes is a step back. So I've taken huge chunks of time off or at much significantly reduced working capacity throughout my career when I felt like I'm not energized, I'm not fully aligned. So taking a sabbatical, a step back and then I'll do the things that I know nourish me. So physical activity, lots of time in nature, those things for me, journaling help me to come back to myself, reconnect with my soul, really. I think often when I'm off track, it's like I've gotten caught up in the busyness, the responsibilities, the obligations, and I've lost that connection to my deep self, my soul. And it takes time for me to re establish that connection and listen in that deeper way. And all those activities I mentioned support that. And so through that process, usually I'll start to have some new understanding of what was at alignment and also a connection to the aliveness, the energy, the deeper purpose. And I feel like for me, my purpose, like it's been consistent for as long as I've known it and it's a big part of what led me to coaching from my management consulting career. But I have to keep coming back to it. I'll come to know it in deeper and deeper and more refined ways and then the expression of it continues to evolve. So it's coming back to that deeper purpose, that deeper knowing of it, listening to it soul again and again, that ultimately gives me some guidance and inspiration and direction. And then there's also the reality, you know, of, like, I don't always get the most, you know, specific instructions from Soul. It may not be like, yeah, build an online course and, you know, create a community around it. It's not like that so much as it's. I don't know how to say it, a broader sort of calling to, like, create something. Let's say, create something new, design something new. And so then I'll have to get practical with it and sometimes figure it out. And a lot of how I'll do that is starting to talk to people. Like, you are one of those people, Jenny. I'd call and say, hey, I want to talk. Can I run some ideas by you? I have other mentors, my wife, community of friends who are coaches and therapists and fascinating people. And so kind of ideating, talking it out with people is also really helpful. And then usually there'll be this feeling of, duh, yeah, of course. Like, yes, okay. And then I'll start the doing of it.

That's the funniest part. I found the same thing when I was working on Pivot as well. It's this aha moment of, oh, it was under my feet the whole time, like, and consistently, people would say, once it clicked, it seemed so obvious in hindsight, but only in hindsight. You mentioned your purpose and that you've had a sense of it for a while. Have you put it into words? Do you have a purpose statement that you could share with us?

I do. You know, when I first connected to my purpose, it came out of the question, what am I here to do? When I had quit my management consulting job and I was like, 23 at the time and traveling on one of those periods, actually, that I was just describing of sabbatical, of deep listening and connection with myself and nature and Soul. And at that point, it came as I'm a guide. What I've always done, what I'm here to do, is help people find their way. That's who I am. And then over the years, and right before the birth of my daughter, I had another major crisis that was initiated by this horribly challenging back pain, back injury that I'd had for years. And it really getting to kind of this breaking point. And so I went deep and did a lot of that deeper reflection again, and then came back to that same purpose of guiding, which felt true, but I did come to know it and articulate it in a deeper way. And so now the statement, the articulation and this feels vulnerable. To say is I am the sunset, lion hearted, wounded healer, guiding you into your true power, purpose and path. Loving you all the way.

That is so beautiful.

That is so beautiful. That really brought tears to my eyes.

Thank you for sharing that with us.

Yeah, it was hard to say. I definitely hesitated. I can remember taking a walk with a friend a couple months ago and we were talking about purpose and he asked me, and even with him who I love dearly, it was difficult to say. So, yeah, there it is.

Wow. What makes it difficult to say and vulnerable?

I don't know. I think it's deep. It's really core to who I am. And so, yeah, sharing that depth of me, of my soul with somebody else or in this context, certainly where other people are listening.

Just a few thou. No biggie.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Wow. And it's so beautifully worded. Did you sit with it and craft it and marinate over time?

Yes, I did, like years. It's something I'm constantly coming back to and understanding in a deeper way. And you know, it started when I was in Southeast Asia wandering around trying to figure out what I was here to do, as I explained earlier. And the guiding part came out of that. And then just before my daughter's birth, in a time really of tremendous pain, when I was like at my lowest low, wondering, how am I going to even do my life? And knowing also that if I was in that much pain in this crisis, that, okay, there is something here for me to learn or know or understand. And I was just so cracked open really by the pain that I was so open. And so I was out on a intentional sort of day in nature, fasting, listening deeply, praying for help. And I was watching the sunset amidst all of this, and there was that piece of really my essence. I feel like the purpose statement, I think contains there's a lot in it. There's no right way to do it or no formula per se, But I think often the purpose statement holds someone's essence as well as what it is that they're here to do, how they want to serve or impact or touch others. And so that sunset piece came out of that time of just sitting and witnessing the sunset and feeling so deeply at home in this sort of reflection of one part of myself. And of course, a sunset is like one of the most magnificent of all creations phenomena. I'm not saying that I'm that, but that there was some resonance in it for me.

And you know what's wild, Your sight imagery has had a sunset in a past for as Long as I remember.

At least the early imagery, the early days. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true.

You mentioned. Thank you for sharing, too, about both the back pain and becoming a father. And when we say back pain, you can't even put words to it. And I only know, unfortunately, because Michael went through that after you. It is searing. 11 out of 10, debilitating. Can't even think pain. And I've never had given birth. Most men, in fact, I don't think either of you have given birth. I know you haven't. But when women have talked about sciatica, they've said this is worse than childbirth. Some of them, not all. But, like, it's up there. These two experiences you mentioned that they kind of brought you to your knees in different ways. I mean, obviously, becoming a dad is super joyful, but it's just as catalytic an event. What specifically changed? So you had this back pain. It made you more receptive and more surrendered. I'm just curious, what changes did you make in your business, in your own career, on the other side of that? Either one.

Yeah. Well, this feels like I could speak for an hour about this journey because it was so significant, the healing journey.

Yeah. And, like, I'm interested in the practical. I think sometimes we talk about these things and they're abstract, like, it changed my life or I became a new person. But then in a career sense, it's so interesting to me. Okay. Yes. What did that look like? You know, what did you do differently?

Well, my back healed at the same time that my daughter was born. And when she was born, actually, I was in so much pain leading up to the birth, and so debilitated by it, I was still working and I was doing what I can, but it was taking so much effort. And when my daughter was. The birth was approaching, I realized I need to and want to take time off. I want to be with my wife, I want to be with my daughter. I want to have as much of that as I can. So I stopped working altogether for a couple months, like, completely. And I had the support of a small team to do that, so that was possible for me. And in those first couple months after my daughter's birth, my pain went away completely. It seems miraculous. It's not. I now understand, you know, what was going on, but to answer your question about what practically looked different in my business, it was setting things up with my team such that I could take a break completely. And then what I realized in that time is, for me, being a father was a part of my purpose. It wasn't, like, explicit in that statement that I read or in my initial knowing of it when I was 23, 24, and first coming to know that. But being a father, it's as deep a purpose as I felt. It's as deep as the other purpose. And so upon feeling that. And it wasn't like in an articulated understanding, you know, in the same way that this other purpose statement was, but it was just this deep knowing, like, oh, this is a big part of what I'm here to do, is to be with my daughter, to be a father, and to be deeply engaged in that role. And so I didn't go back to work, really. I did. I was still running the business and leading the group coaching program. So it's not true to say I didn't go back to work. I was doing that. But I let go of seeing clients for a long time, for most of the first three and a half years of my daughter's life. So that was a huge shift for me. And I made less money, way less money, and I didn't work as much. I spent a ton of time with her. I felt a deep, deep sense of purpose from it. And I'd still have these moments. Like, I can remember on one Father's Day having some reflection on where I was. I think my daughter was like two or two and a half at the time. And I was saying to my wife, like, you know, I don't feel like I'm as engaged in my work. I haven't grown my business, I've. I'm not making that much money like all these other people seem to be continuing to grow their careers and doing new and interesting things and like, what am I doing? And then quickly had the realization, oh, I'm a parent, I'm a father, and I'm in deep connection with my daughter and her life and our family. And it was like this amazing realization for me that I was absolutely on purpose and deeply doing what I feel here to do. It just wasn't solely about my purpose in the context of work. So for me, it was how. To go back to your question, I know this is a really long answer. Thanks for listening. But to go back to your question about the practicalities of how it changed. I worked a lot less is how it changed.

You mentioned that your back did heal shortly after your daughter was born, and you said, now you know why. Why? Enlighten us.

Yeah, well, the why, succinctly put, is that I was stressed out. I was focused on pleasing other people, on doing Everything perfectly on trying really hard to succeed. And that those things were for me, creating a lot of tension in my body dis ease, which manifested as physical in my case. And I know that to be true because when I had that realization and started really doing the hard inner work, back to the inner work again, of realizing the ways that I was making myself suffer, basically like causing myself emotional pain and how it was ultimately translating to physical pain when I realized those things and then through the work of therapy, of journaling, of having a really honest conversation with myself and starting to let some of those ways of being go, then the pain went away. And it'll come back here and there when I'm super stressed out and out of alignment. And I'll do the same thing, getting really honest with myself about where I'm overstretching over, exerting, bending too far and I come back into alignment and the pain goes away. And I did everything too. I had surgery and physical therapy, chiropractic, acupuncture. I mean, every healing modality that I could find didn't work. And then this approach did. And it's produced lasting change for me. And I'll also say, I don't know that this is true for everybody who has back pain and sciatica. Healing is so complicated, but for me, this is what did it.

Thank you for sharing. It's such an incredible story and your process. I really appreciate it on this subject. Gabor Mate's book When the Body says no, I'll put it in the show notes. I mean, just recently, the day of the free time book launch, I had a raging ear infection and I could only hear. I probably had 50% capacity in one ear. And then the next day I was hosting a brunch, a bunch of BFF Community Community members were in town and I was in tremendous pain and I just knew that it was the launch with everything we say and talk about, I just had way more on my calendar and on my plate than usual. And just sure enough, like clockwork, there it was. There it was, my body saying, hey, this is too much for me. So sometimes we know it and life still surpasses our at least my capacity. But my body is a very early signal as well. I'm only laughing because I'm like, maybe there's an earlier one that I keep missing. But usually for me it is my body, but it comes in quick. I've always said mine has me on a short leash. For better, for worse. Me too.

I'm sorry. We have that in common.

I know, but it's such a beacon though, because then you go up. It's like, I don't even bother. Some people would hate this approach because of course, like disease, illness, injury, it's. You don't want to blame somebody. But in my life, every time I've come down with something crazy, no matter what it is, bronchitis, ear infection, thyroid issues, I go, okay, Jenny, what'd you do? Like, what am I doing? I have to look at myself because that's what shows up for me. And again, not to put it on anyone else, but that's what shows up for me.

Yeah. Yeah, me too. It's really humbling, isn't it? Just so humbling. Yeah.

Yeah. And it's humbling to experience it again. It's like the knowing doing gap. I can know the way of working that's easeful. This is why my work is about ease and joy. Because I. I just can't do otherwise.

Right.

Actually, I'm just not cut out for otherwise.

We'll be right back just after this.

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You've studied a lot of internal family systems therapy. Ifs I learned about it from you. I think it's fascinating. You say in your bio, I'm one part coach, one part purpose guide, one part entrepreneur, one part therapist. But we also have parts within ourselves. And you were the first person that I did part work with where we actually have different voices. I call it the boardroom of your brain. But we have different parts within us. I'm just wondering if you can Share a little bit about ifs with us and how it's such a powerful tool in your work.

Yeah, it is a really powerful tool. I think it's powerful because it's so common to the human experience to feel like a part of me wants this, a part of me wants that. And we're pulled in different directions. We're divided. It's like there's this lack of coherence or teamwork happening inside. So for me, if I go back to what I was just sharing, a part of me wants to be with my daughter, deeply engaged, pursuing passions outside of work. You know, just in the bliss of following a toddler, you know, under bushes and into people's yards and marveling. Right. And then another part of me is sort of screaming like, wait, what are you doing? You need to make money. You have this amazing career that you love. You know, your purpose is also to guide others. There's so much possibility for a path that fits you. Love sitting with clients. Like, go put your energy into that. You know, do that. And it is really painful, actually, to be in somebody's garden, you know, with my daughter, and feeling this pull out of that present experience and just the wrestling inside. So parts work, I think, is so powerful because it puts us in conversation inside ourselves with the different parts. And then in order to have a conversation with the different parts, it's like, who is it that's talking to that's in relationship with these different parts? Well, it's the deeper me. It's my capital S self. It's my soul. We could say that really is the leader here. And so getting back to that deep connection to my true self, my soul, and then leading from that place with coherence, with an understanding, a deep understanding and reverence for what each part is trying to do. That's the other thing about IFS is it's like it's all brilliant. Every part is good, is valuable, is trying to do something beneficial for the whole. So understanding what each part is trying to do can help bring that harmony inside. And so then there's less resistance, there's less energy drain. And not just less resistance and less energy drain, but I think there's more coherence inside so that we do move towards the activities, purpose, work, life that is most wholly fulfilling to our whole being. So it's profound and useful. So useful, yeah.

I mean, even just hearing you describe it, realizing that there is no one part, in a way, I mean, there is. We have a soul, we have our inner compass. But I mean, There are different parts of ourselves that are fulfilled in different ways, and no one is wrong. But then how do we give each part a voice? And then that. That is where sometimes that burnout or conflict comes from because we're neglecting a part or we're overemphasizing one part. And. Yeah. Just so interesting to hear you share it. I know you do a lot of deep work with this, with your clients.

Yeah. I think it's also incredibly accessible for people. Like, if we think about somebody who's going through a career change, they're usually excited about the possibility of change, of doing something they love, of doing something meaningful. And through that process of connecting to, you know, who am I, what am I about? Which I know you do as well, there's that further. It stokes that excitement. And there's this desire to go and do something consistent, aligned with who we are, what we love, what we're here to do. And then there's the other parts that are totally freaked out about making a change, stepping into the unknown. Am I going to make enough money? Am I going to like it? Am I going to be successful? Is everybody going to think I'm crazy? All these things. And so to just name to somebody, oh, it sounds like a part of you is really excited about becoming an ecologist, and another part of you is freaking out right now. And they're like, yes. And then all of a sudden, then there's this easier way in to explore those things with them. And so I might say, yeah, so that really resonates. Can we spend a little bit of time understanding that part of you that's afraid and what fears it's holding and what it needs and what it's about? And usually the client's like, oh, God, yes. You know, that would be so helpful. But maybe they haven't articulated it as a part of me. It's like they've thought, this is just how it is. This is what I think. This is the way it is. This is all of me. And so to frame it as a part, then they can start to relate and engage and talk, to have a conversation facilitated by me, but also not. They can do this on their own as well, but they can have a conversation with that part and really get to know, what are you trying to do for me? What are you afraid might happen? What do you need? All these things.

When I was leaving Google, my inner CFO was raging like, you're an idiot. You're crazy. You know? And once I named it, oh, this is my inner cfo I created a business plan for my cfo. It wasn't for anybody else. It was like I needed to show this part of myself that I had it. I had a plan. And we all know the only plan is there's no plans. But nonetheless, it helped me. It actually helped me navigate that transition.

Beautiful. Yeah. That's brilliant.

Yeah. Thank you. As we wrap up, and I really hope to be continued, because we've talked about jamming more for the pod. Again. I don't know what I was thinking not having you here sooner. There's a couple mantras that have stuck with me in my career. I know you've just been spending time actually irl river rafting, but two phrases that have stuck with me are lift the oars and don't push the river. If you could leave listeners with a favorite mantra of yours that you counsel or you give to, you offer to people who are navigating change, what would it be?

Yeah, I think it's something around be yourself. And I say that because there are so many expectations for us to be a certain way. And I think everybody has a gift, has their own genius, has their own unique way, and that the path, the way to a deeply meaningful, fulfilling life is really by being yourself. Like, that's the way. Being authentic, using your gifts, doing what you love to do in your own unique way. It makes me think of Maya Angelou's quote on success. Success is liking yourself, liking what you do, and liking the way that you do it. And I think she nailed it. She got it. That's been an inspiring phrase for me. So I say, be yourself. Do what you are.

I love it. I love it. Be yourself. Do what you are. So good. Thank you so much, Adrian. You're the best listeners. So much. Goodness. If you just can't tell, Even Ryder's chiming in now. Adrian, let people know where they can find you to keep in touch.

My website is apathatfits, and often that sounds like a path when I'm speaking it over the phone to somebody, but I think you all got it. A path. Like a path in life that fits.

I feel like that could be a good vocal exercise because it takes a lot of articulation. A path that fits.

That's right.

You really stretch out your mouth.

It's true.

Oh, my gosh. But it's so good. It's like, do who you are, what you are. Like a path that fits. It's right there in your mission statement and your purpose statement.

Yep.

So good. Thank you so much, Adrian. You're amazing. Thank you for being such a longtime friend, mentor and coach along my path and for being so vulnerable and open and sharing yours.

Thank you Jenny. It was so fun to be here and talk to you. Always is. And yeah, I'd love to come back. I could keep going for hours and hours with you.

I know. See now, if only we had hit record on all our many other zillions of calls and listeners. Thank you so much for being here. As I mentioned, Adrian's course is the one that I partner with for Pivot instead of I've created a few for LinkedIn learning, but those are usually only for companies. So you can go to a path that fits.com, you can also find it@pivotmethod.com career pathfinder and we'll put all this good stuff in the show notes. Thanks so much Adrian. Thank you everybody for being here.

Thank you Jenny.

Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the Pivot podcast. Make sure you don't miss an episode or my insider tips and templates by signing up for Pivot List, a curated twice monthly newsletter where I share the inside scoop on what I'm reading, watching, listening to, and the latest tools I'm geeking out on. Sign up@pivotmethod.com pivotlist get show notes from this episode@pivotmethod.com podcast and connect with me on Twitter ennyblake.

Remember, build first, then your courage will follow. Hasn't it always.

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