328: Accessing Your True Self Through IFS with Adrian Klaphaak

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As you might imagine, life and work are going to become much less stressful, much more fulfilling when a person leading their life from their self instead of apart. So like if you're in a critic trying to help you make career change or take the next step in your career not going to go nearly as well as if you're confidence wise creative self is helping you lead your life and move forward.

What's next? This is a question we're all having to ask and answer more frequently. I'm Jenny Blake, your host of the Pivot podcast and author of Pivot. The only move that matters is your next one.

For show notes from this episode, visit pivotmethod.com podcast if Change is the only constant, then let's get better at it. Here we go.

Welcome back Pivoters. Jenny Blake here with one of our recurring guest co hosts, one of my favorite people, my first career coach, Adrienne Clapack. Adrian has been on the show many times and today we're building on episode 319, who's sitting in the Boardroom of youf Brain. We were talking about some of our inner critic Personas or the board members and what they were like, what we wanted to say to them. Part of that is based on ifs, which is a body of work called Internal Family Systems that Adrian trained in over a decade ago and has modified and incorporated it in parts of his career coaching practice. So we got two wonderful reviews and comments. I just want to give a shout out to Jusi Petervari who a month or two ago said, ah, Jenny, speaking about ifs. Finally. I love it. Thank you for your enthusiasm. And we also got Liz wrote a wonderful podcast review saying so many great conversations. I especially love Jenny's conversations with Adrienne. These feel so authentic and full of insights that I can apply to my own experience. They're the perfect blend of concepts and actionable steps that feel genuine. Thank you Jenny and Adrienne. And thank you Liz for leaving this great review and Juicy's. Sorry if I'm bungling your name, but you left that in Spotify and I saw it. So thank you because that's a new feature that I'm really enjoying where it's the first time we can really get comments on podcast episodes by going to the specific Spotify page and sharing your biggest insight from a conversation like this one. Before we dive in, just a quick reminder bio on Adrian. He's a coach, purpose guide, entrepreneur, and founder of a path that fits career and life coaching. What I love about him is he takes a holistic approach, really around the practical steps, but also this bigger quest for your soul's calling for meaning and fulfillment. He himself is a deep seeker and a parent. We just talked about him coming back from parental leave for his second kiddo and Adrian has two resources that may be interesting to you. The Career Pathfinder program is a group program. If you want to navigate what's next, be sure to use promo code Pivot and he himself is taking on a few more one on one clients. So if any of this resonates and you want to work directly with Adrian one on one, we'll put all the info on how to reach out in the show notes with that. Adrian, welcome back to the show.

Thank you Jenny. Always good to be here and I'm excited to do a deeper dive into IFS and also want to say thank you for the feedback to the two people who gave us that positive feedback that is really nice to hear and helps me want to do better. So thank you.

Likewise. I know it's always so helpful to know what's working, what to do, more of True to the Pivot Method. I'll put these two books in the show. Notes Richard Schwartz is the founder of IFS and he wrote a book called Introduction to Internal Family Systems and no Bad Parts. For those of us who are new to this, would you mind giving an overview of what is IFS and then how it's been helpful and interesting to you in your life and practice?

IFS is a form of psychotherapy. It believes that we're all made up of multiple parts or sub personalities as well as a core self. So the parts take on different roles, like an inner critic, people pleaser, the ambitious doer, the perfectionist, the doubter that sees everything that can go wrong. And there are no bad parts. All the parts are trying to care for us, help us, protect us. But they get misguided or overactive or siloed in their roles and then start to pull us in different directions. A common example I hear let's say you're unfulfilled in your career, and you know you're meant for something else. In response to that feeling, that sense you're having, some parts are likely to start showing up. So it could be that there's this spontaneous, adventurous, let's just do it part of you that's urging you to just quit, dive into something else. And then another part is afraid to let go of the security and stability of your current career. And this part keeps pointing out all the risks, all the problems with your ideas about what else you could do. So in the conflict between these two parts, you're stuck. They're not working together, you're pulled in different directions, and it's really hard to make any kind of change. Those are the parts. The other thing in the IFS model is the deeper self. Or in ifs, they just call it the self with a capital S. So everybody also has self, which is wise, open, loving, creative, confident. And the ultimate goal of IFS is to increase a person's access to their self. When a person's more connected to their self, they can heal their parts. They can resolve the conflict between parts and create more inner harmony. And then their true self is leading their life instead of the inner critic or the people pleaser or that doubtful look at all the things that could go wrong part. And as you might imagine, life and work are going to become much less stressful, much more fulfilling when a person leading their life from their self instead of apart. So if you're inner critics trying to help you make career change or take the next step in your career, not going to go nearly as well as if your competence, wise, creative self is helping you lead your life and move forward. So I was going to ask you, Jenny, let me turn it back over to you.

I would imagine that when Richard introduced this over 40 years ago, that it was controversial because probably up until that point, this would be considered schizophrenic. If you have multiple parts and voices, and I heard him say on a podcast that thinking alone is usually multiple of your parts talking to each other. That is thinking. And so do you know when this was first introduced, how it landed with the psychotherapy or the therapy community? Was it controversial to just introduce this concept that we all have parts and they're all talking to each other within us?

I don't know. I could see how it could have been. I think the model was developed by Dr. Schwartz in the 80s, and I know it came out of his work with actual families, like, you know, parents and kids and the actual families, not the family inside of ourselves. But actual families with different people. And I don't know how exactly, but had the insight or the idea to take the approaches he was using with families and then direct them towards the inner world of an individual. So I know it came from that he was a family therapist, but I don't know how it was received. The one other thing I can say about this is I know that when I first heard about parts, I think I was in a different training. It wasn't ifs, it was in a different training, different approach to psychotherapy. And I kept noticing that I would say, oh, one part of me, Or I'd hear other people say, oh, yeah, one part of me feels this way and another part of me feels that way. So there was something that was so natural about describing the way I was feeling and often the conflicts inside myself as, oh, yeah, one part of me really wants to get fit and in shape, and one part of me is lazy. It felt very natural when I first understood this concept of different parts inside myself.

In addition to starting to naturally use that language. Was there a moment of breakthrough that you had around this where one of your parts was revealed to you? I know he also uses language that you'll tell us about, such as that we all have exiles, managers, firefighters. Did you yourself have a breakthrough when you first started learning about this? Of like, oh, my gosh, I never knew that part was hidden or active. That changed your life in some way?

I think for me, the whole approach of being in relationship from my core self with another part of myself was a breakthrough because up to that point, it all felt like a kind of confusing mess inside of myself. And sometimes I'd be able to navigate my way through stuckness, confusion, and move things forward. And other times I feel like I'd kind of hang out in the stuck place for a while. But as soon as I was able to start learning this model and speaking in the language of parts and seeing myself through the language of parts, it helped me to disidentify with whatever feeling or state I was in. So, like, for example, if I was really anxious about something, instead of just being anxious, anxious, anxious, I could say, oh, I'm in the anxious part. The anxious part is the most active part inside me right now. And as soon as I would say, oh, I'm not just like an anxious person, but I have an anxious part, I could start to relate to that part and get curious instead again of just anxious, anxious, oh my God, look at all the things that go wrong. I could start going, oh, you know Hi, anxious part. Here you are again. What's going on? Talk to me. Tell me what you're feeling. And the person that was asking those questions, or the part of me that was asking those questions most often was myself, my deeper self. And so by identifying this part, I was like automatically moving myself towards my core self and in a much more grounded, open place and able to start moving things forward.

And I could see the difference, that once you're aware that it's a part, even that your language was so much more compassionate versus I'm so anxious. The sky's falling. I wish I wasn't so anxious. This is bad. I'm bad. My anxiety is bad. Make it go away. You know, like when we're not conscious, I feel it does spiral like that. Speaking of anxiety, you work with a lot of clients who are at a big pivot point in their life. They're navigating change, often in some form of existential crisis sometimes. But by the time they get to you, how has this parts therapy or parts work been helpful in your practice? I'd love to hear how it might apply to somebody navigating change.

I can speak generally about it for a second, and then I could give an example that might be helpful, generally speaking. Another part of the reason that I got interested in this is because when I first started out, after getting trained as a coach and certified and all that, and I'd been doing coaching for a couple of years, I kept noticing that sometimes the process of working with people to discover their gifts and passions and identify careers that fit and then either pivot in their career or find something new. Sometimes that would work seamlessly. It would flow nicely, straightforward. They'd find that next step and they'd take it. And then with other people, I couldn't figure out why it wasn't working like we were doing the same things. And I started to realize, oh, for whatever reason, some people have more stuff that's getting in the way. And what I came to learn was really the stuff is there's parts that are getting in the way. Not all parts of some clients were on board with the change. And so that sort of stuckness that I would see led me to try to find a model, an approach outside of coaching that would help navigate, understand, and gracefully. Not just like, hey, what are you going to do? And by when and go do it and why didn't you do it? But really get at how do we resolve, how do we heal? How do we free you from this inner conflict that's holding you Stuck. And IFS is my go to tool with clients when I start to feel like there's something deeper that's stuck here. So it's been really useful in my practice in that way.

Thank you for sharing that. And just. You're so right. Now that I think about the times I've been a coachee and also a coach, sometimes things flow really smoothly and it's just about getting clear, taking action, what's the strategy? And then other times there is a block, and that's why it's like they can't see it in themselves. And there is a block. And it's not about the homework and it's not about the tools and tactics that they could read about online. It's just one of those moments of life. It's like a bigger new level needs to get unlocked or new expansion, or as I've often heard about big T and little T trauma. You can't even acknowledge trauma of any kind or even a toxic relationship until you're safe enough to do that. So it's probably very risky for someone who's still in a situation to even admit this situation is unhealthy. For me, it's scary. And so sometimes I've seen myself and others. Only when your life is kind of safe and stable can you go, oh, that's what that was. Now that I'm on the other side. So I'd love an example, if you don't mind sharing anonymously, of course, of just a case study of how you've worked with a client through this.

In this case study, I'm going to reference a couple parts called managers, firefighters, exiles. So let me give a little bit more detail about how the IFS model identifies different parts, because then the case study will make a lot more more sense in the IFS language. So the different parts in the IFS system are labeled managers and firefighters and exiles. And that's in addition to the self, which really isn't a part. It's your core. So managers help us function by doing things like showing up to work, navigating relationships and social situations, accomplishing goals, et cetera, as you might imagine from the title managers. But they can get overactive and turn into things like intense perfectionism or compulsive people pleasing or the harsh inner critic. And managers, what they want is to keep our life moving along well in the outer world so that we don't feel the deeper emotional pain that our exiles are carrying. Like, for example, if we're super successful at work and everything's going really well there, and we're getting all this praise and appreciation, then we're less likely to feel that deeper emotional pain that we're also carrying from an exile that feels unlovable. So that's managers, firefighters show up when the emotional pain of the exile gets triggered and the firefighter's intention is to numb or avoid the pain. So a common example of a firefighter taking action, taking over the wheel in somebody's life would be alcohol and drug use, overeating over exercise, something to distract and numb the pain of the exile. And it's often pretty extreme or can be pretty extreme action that the firefighter moves us to do. And then we come to exiles. Exiles are the parts of us that carry the emotional pain from past traumas. Exiles often are feeling ashamed, feeling grief. They're often younger because the initial traumas occurred at a younger age in childhood and then can sometimes be repeated or played out all throughout our lives. And yeah, these are the parts typically that. Jenny, you were saying? We may not even know they exist sometimes because the managers, the firefighters are working so hard to avoid us from feeling the pain, the emotional pain that the exiles have. And then again, last piece again to remember. We also talked about this earlier, but the core self, true nature, our essence, has the capacity to be with all of these parts and ultimately help them soften their intensity, come into a healthier functioning, and then lead us towards our best life.

We'll be right back just after this.

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Super helpful. Thank you for that overview of those three exiles, manager and firefighters. How do those relate to. Are they parallel to saying inner critic? Is the inner critic one of those three types, or do we have many parts and they often also include exiles, managers and firefighters?

I'm not sure this would be a good question. That I want to take in research, because that's a good question. I think an inner critic could show up as potentially any part, depending on its nature, depending on the role it's in, depending on the emotions it's holding, depending on sort of what it's doing in your inner world. So, for example, if the inner critic was like, you have to be perfect. You have to get everything just right. You're not good enough just the way you are now, that might be a manager. If the inner critic was just directly saying, like, oh, you're. You're not good enough. You don't have what it takes, that might be more of an exile, that feeling of shame. I'm not good enough firefighter. I don't know. I don't have a good example.

Maybe the firefighter's like, you suck. Eat this bag of cookies. Or like, you know, you suck better numbness, because you suck. So, yeah, here's what to do, right?

And already we're getting sort of some clues into. There's that core feeling of shame. You suck. Or I suck. I'm not good enough. And then there's the responses. Firefighters saying, oh, let's just eat. Or the manager saying, let's try really, really hard. If we try really, really hard, maybe we won't feel like we're not good enough. And so those show the different strategies of the manager and the firefighter in response to that core feeling of shame.

So when you and I were doing the boardroom of our brain exercise and we excavated three parts each of so many of a cacophony of voices, do you think those are mostly managers? Like, my people Pleaser is basically a manager that if I can keep everybody happy, then no one will be mad at me and I won't have to feel bad or that I did something bad or wrong. Do you think the loudest voices tend to be managers? Because that's what we hear, and those are the ones trying to fix everything versus where the firefighter is more around the action, the unconscious action that we're taking to numb or soothe the pain.

I think so. That's a good summary or simplification. Yeah.

Do we even know about the exiles? Cause wouldn't it be if we knew about them? We could address them. Like, I wonder how conscious most of us are about our exiles if we have not done this work?

I think it's common to not know, to not really know the exiles. Like, the whole more conscious part of our psyche is trying to avoid us feeling those deeper emotional wounds, pains, shame, grief. I think the exiles are probably. They're like the last part that we know about.

And I guess that's where Jungian psychology and the idea of our shadow comes in as well, because the shadow was buried in our subconscious, and it's too painful to look at. So therefore, it is the shadow. And then we end up projecting the shadow outwards, saying, I just don't like that person. Can't stand that person, you know? And that might be elements of our shadow.

Right.

Okay, super helpful. I'd love to hear your career case study, if you have one.

So I changed the names and a couple parts of the identifying information. Let's say Philip, he was feeling stuck and confused about his career and his life path. And when we started, he was successful in his career, product management, but didn't feel like it was enough. He didn't know why, he didn't know what else, but he just wanted more, wanted more, wanted more. When we started to get into what's really going on here, some of the parts started to present themselves. So first to arrive, first to show up, occupying the biggest space in his inner world was the ambitious part of him. This is a manager part. So this is the part of him that's saying, you got to do more. Comparing himself to other people, peers that were further along. This part saying to him, you should be further along. You need to be more successful. This isn't good enough, et cetera, et cetera. And then the other interesting thing that would happen was that Philip would just check out of work of social life for days sometimes and just play video games. And so there's the firefighter, right, Just checked out, numbing, not dealing. It's become too much. Maybe there's this sort of the beginnings of some hints of a really deep pain or something, discontent somewhere in there. And so firefighter shows up to numb it. And so what did we do? Well, I started with the manager, because that was so strong, so present, and started to get to know it. So asking him questions, identifying it as a part. Oh, it sounds like this ambitious part. And let's get to know this part. And what does it want to tell you about it, and what is it trying to do for you? And what he started to realize was that this ambitious part is trying to push him really, really hard to be super successful with the idea, the hope that if he's really successful, then he'll feel good. And so when we got there, it was like, okay, we understand the manager's positive, intention, purpose, goal to feel good, that you feel good. And so what that tells me is then some part of him must feel like he's not good, not good enough. And so then we started to orient towards that part and so asked him, okay, where inside you. And it may take a little while, it may not immediately present itself, but where inside might you feel like you're not good enough? Or when in your life, even if you go way back, have you felt like you're not good enough? And then eventually that takes us to his exile. And this feeling, first of being really alone as a young kid, very alone, sad, kind of withdrawn, and the feelings there, I'm not lovable, I'm not good enough. And then once we got there, then we could hear and see and just be with that exile in their pain and then do some things again inside of the IFS model called unburdening, to help that exile release that pain and sort of leave that situation where it's like it was still stuck back as a kid in his life, alone, unlovable, feeling like he's not good, he's not worthy. And so we sort of, in this imaginative way, brought the exile out of that place and into his life. Now with him as capable adult, then we come back to that original question, stuckness. Philip is seeking out coaching, for, which is like, I'm unfulfilled in my career. I'm confused about what to do. It's not enough. And then we're able, though, to understand if it's not about ambition and just success for the sake of success, what is actually missing, what's genuinely missing from your career. And for him, it was really that he wasn't doing the thing he was most passionate about. So he started exploring his passions. Didn't take long to get clear that what he loved, what he was doing in his free time, was studying finance. And so then the connection to that moved him towards career changes. He did a stint at a fintech company and then in a hedge fund and had that inherent sense of fulfillment from his work and was also successful and just in general in his life, much more settled. It wasn't in these extreme cycles of intense, intense work and just this constant restlessness, and then checked out playing video games. It was like he was able to also start doing other more healthy, fulfilling activities in his life as well.

Thank you for sharing that. I can relate to so much of that. And I just love this process that you said of unburdening, where you're coaxing an exile, getting it to rejoin the group, like with these new tools now and Again, identifying it in the first place is probably so transformative. And then just that word unburdening. I can imagine the relief.

Yeah, we're all like, yes, let's unburden. Right? It's like, I'm always, always feel like everybody could use a good unburdening these days.

Isn't that the irony on some level of aging? Like, I try not to throw shade at aging in general. I want to be more positive about it than certain messages in society. And it's just so interesting. It's like, oh, it took me 10 years, 20 years, 40 years to unburden myself from this adaptive behavior that I developed, let's say, 25 years ago. And it just. You're like, okay, well, it took the time it took. Yeah, here we are.

That makes me think, too, of I'll often get into therapy or work with another coach, like, every handful of years, and I often find the same stuff again that's holding me back, the same parts. And it's like, oh, my God, again, I'm with this one again. I thought we already did that. I thought we already unburdened. That's humbling, too. And it actually makes me think of. In the beginning, you asked me what were some of the breakthroughs in discovery of parts, And I think for me, maybe the biggest one, or at least a huge one, was the people pleaser. I didn't really get how pervasive that strategy was in me. That part was in me. And so seeing that, and I really had to humble myself to really see just how much it was showing up. But that was a huge breakthrough when I got aware of that and then got through that to the exile underneath, which is like, I'm not lovable just the way that I am. I have to be good, be nice, be supportive, be agreeable in order to stay connected with people. And so that was really freeing for me, and I still struggle with it.

Yeah, I second everything you just said. Almost every day I have a moment where I go, there I go again. There's my compulsive need to people please to keep the situation calm or safe or make sure I'm liked or I don't ruffle any feathers, rock any boats. It happens every day. There is something that I see. I still do it, and I can know about it. I can talk about it for eight years on this podcast. And there it is, you know, and I just finished reading I'll put in the show notes. Elise Lunan. She wrote a book called Honor Best Behavior that is technically for women, although I think men could get a lot out of it as well. But through the lens of the seven deadly sins, how we're taught to be good, and the messages we get from society around that. And it was great. I was like, yep, yes to all the above.

So we could work with that people pleaser right now. We could do a little IFS session demo, or we could do any other part that maybe done a lot with the people pleaser. You want to pick something else?

Yeah. Well, I was thinking about this, knowing we had this recording session, and thank you for being willing to do a little quick session. And then we can always. To be continued. In our next convo, I relate to what you said about your client Philip and my friend Laura Garnett, who does a lot of work around helping people find their zone of genius. She helped me pinpoint that. For me, part of being good is I felt like a burden growing up, not because anyone made me feel that way. My parents are great, and they did the best they could, but I think I felt the stress of parenting. And they both worked full time, so we often had turnover with the babysitters. Eventually, it's normal. It's like we had one nanny the first few years, and then maybe a different person every year. And I think the result of that is just do not rock the boat. Be agreeable, be good. Because I see how stressed all the adults are and let me make myself as small as possible to not add any stress to their plates. So that kind of is like, again, from no one thing. It's all normal. It's all normal stress of parenting. And yet I really took it on as a sensitive child. I think I took it on and I became codependent from a very, very early age where I thought that if I could modify my behavior enough and be good enough, I wouldn't add any stress. And then now my life's work is like unburdening people and freeing their time. You know, that's what Laura helped me connect. So maybe we could do that version of the people pleaser.

Absolutely. And what you said also speaks to how these parts, they have genius in them, too. Richard Schwartz always said, there are no bad parts. And it's like, absolutely. And what a beautiful way to look at our inner world, because there's so much genius, wisdom, strategy, creativity in the formation of these parts. And then they're also. We can apply their gifts in our adult life in tremendously useful ways to ourselves and others. And so it's a great example already.

Of that thank you. And also caveat, I might cry because I cry so easily when I talk about these parts or the exiles or I've never done ifs work. I should also say that, like, you put it on my radar and I love listeners who've mentioned it, but I've never. I've never done it myself.

So. Yeah, well, you have my full permission. Thank you. To let whatever shows up show up.

Thank you.

And thank you for being vulnerable.

We'll be right back just after this.

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So yeah, just start and sort of step one, I'll kind of narrate also like what I'm doing so that people who are curious to know the model can follow along. Hopefully I'll be able to do that. We'll see what happens. But first step is just to notice Jenny, like how does this people pleaser or whatever we end up calling it? But how does this show up inside you right now after having talked about it?

If I had to name it, I would just nickname it the Good Girl. Maybe that's even inspired by having just read Elise's book already. Now, just from me bringing it up, I have a lump in my throat, a tight feeling in my chest, and watery eyes. Just like everything wants to shut down. Like, yeah, it's a hard feeling to.

Be with and so just notice it. We can go super slow. If it gets to be too much, you can let me know and you can just kind of gently take a little breather from it. But just be with that lump in your throat, the tightness in your chest, the watery eyes just noticing it. And now see if you can identify how you feel toward that part of you that's presenting itself. So how do you feel toward that part of you.

I do feel a lot of compassion. I have a younger brother, so whatever was happening in the house, I have a visual image. There was one time where I was hugging him, maybe my parents were fighting, as parents do, and I, like had my arms around him. And so I feel like he always had me in those situations. And like, obviously when two people are arguing, like there was just nobody doing that for me, just built in. So I feel that I had the instinct to give that to him, but I had to figure that out kind of on my own or if we had a new caretaker or something. It was like I was constant for him and in a lot of ways him for me. We're really close to this day. I love him, you know, he's one of my best friends. I love every conversation. So I did get so much from our two way friendship. But as far as being a steady older person, that was mostly on me most consistently if the parents weren't home or if there was discord in the house.

So you're the older one, you're taking care, you're the one giving the hug. And so it sounds like as you're noticing how that part shows up inside of you, you're also recalling this memory. And that's great. That often happens. And then when I ask you, how do you feel towards that part? You say, I feel a lot of compassion, which to me is a sign in the IFS model that yourself is present. If you'd said, I'm so frustrated with that part, that would have also been totally understandable, but that wouldn't be coming from yourself. So you're saying, I feel compassion for it. So what we want to have you do now is just feel that compassion that you have towards that party.

Yeah, it's interesting because something came up while you were saying that, that I think it's the firefighter, but I'm not sure how they connect. When I overtly ask for the proverbial hug in a situation where I'm stressed or down, I feel extremely vulnerable. I'll have a big vulnerability hangover the next day and I almost berate myself. I almost can't stand it. Like, the firefighter wants me to not show so much vulnerability. And even among close friends, I feel like the part that I want to numb out is stop telling people about your problems because I can't stand the flashlight on me when I'm down. Like, and this is obviously public for the podcast, but it's come up recently. I've had a hard year, but when I'm too vocal about it. It's too vulnerable. The firefighter's like, can you just shut up? Like, can you stop talking already because this is uncomfortable. So there's this weird relationship between, yes, I feel compassion for the younger self who would have loved connection in those moments. But then as an adult, somehow the way I numb is just be as independent as possible, not need anything. I never want to bring bad energy and I don't want to be a burden even on my friends if I'm too down for too long. Makes me very upset.

So there's a number of parts presenting themselves here. I also want to just say I feel how you're so authentic and vulnerable right now and really appreciate that. So what I hear though is there's the part that really holds. There's a vulnerable part in you that does want help, that does want to be held, that does want and need the support as we all do. Right. Just so easy to understand and to deeply understand. That part that's vulnerable, that wants help, that needs help. And then there's the part that when you do ask for help or you share what you're really going through, that vulnerable share. There's another part that will the next day maybe criticize you for it or berate you. So it sounds like it can be quite harsh because it's like, whoa, that was so much to feel. I don't like feeling that. Right. And then also another part and tell me if this is resonating and tracking another part that then maybe after all of that is saying, okay, I want to be more, more independent. Figure it out on my own. Let's just avoid that whole cycle from happening. The independent part.

Yes, totally. Yes, you're right. The independent is the manager. Yes. I could have avoided all that vulnerability and Right. The shame of feeling that way, of needing to ask for help, of the vulnerability of standing out on a ledge, even asking for help is like almost unbearable. And so then the manager's like, yeah, let's skip all that. Couldn't you just figure this out on your own? And I think that's why I dedicated so much in my twenties to reading self help books, because it's like if I could just help myself enough, yeah. I wouldn't need anyone else. I wouldn't have to be vulnerable, I wouldn't have to ask for things, I wouldn't be needy, I wouldn't be a burden on anyone.

Right. And it sounds like it's that the exile is that part that has that need that we all do. Right. That has that need for support, for someone to hold you, that holds all that vulnerability. Would you say that? Does that feel right?

Yeah, I think so.

Yeah. So that's the part that we'd want to go toward and be with because it's here now. And I also want to acknowledge that this is a really vulnerable thing to do on your podcast. Like, for real, free coaching. Yeah. No, no, thank you for. I'm honestly, I'm trying to figure out, like, whoa.

Thank you.

I feel like we want to check in with the other parts before proceeding. Because what I've learned from doing this work is if all the parts aren't all on board, and I think you alluded to this, then tomorrow you might be really hearing from that critical part or you might be really strongly feeling over efforting toward independence. So my sense is before going to that vulnerable part, we may want to just like, do a little bit of work, check in, hear out these other parts.

Yeah, Well, I really appreciate that. And then my answer will already be meta. Because I have so many voices. One is concerned for you and your time because we're at time of what we set to record. So there's part of me that keeps getting increasingly uncomfortable. Like, I don't want to take too much of your time. It's kind of ironic given the subject matter. And so I have to also check in with you on time. There's part of me for sure, when we hang up, I'll have a hangover. And when it goes live, I'll for sure have a hangover. But the thing that actually my core true self, I really love when I can be in service to others. And if this helps one person think through their parts, that's such a gift. It's so healing for me. So in this moment, it's like, cool to continue. And no doubt the vulnerability hangover will be there. And then I'm also the people pleaser. Good girl. Is like, is it gonna be okay? The people who know me, what are they gonna think now? They're gonna have thoughts about me. I can't stand having someone be like, well, that made me uncomfortable how much you shared. Or now as your friend, I'm worried about you. Or I feel bad for you. Like, that will make me vulnerable too. But none of that would stop me from probably the core self desire of being in service.

Yeah. Let's take five more minutes then.

Okay, great. Perfect.

Let's first have you from this core self that's saying, this is really important. This work is really important to me to modeling this for others, for other people's growth. I hear the commitment to growth and in the care you have for yourself because you know this is important and also for others. And so let's have that course, that self, like the place you were just speaking from. What do you want to say to the part tomorrow that may be critical or sort of be judging how vulnerable you were, was it appropriate, et cetera. And then we'll also come back to the good girl part as well, but first to the critical part tomorrow. What do you want to say or how do you want to be with that part?

Well, I love the idea of anticipating the part and speaking to the future self part. Like, I've never done it in that direction. I've always done it to the past self. So I really appreciate what you said and just acknowledging kind of the courage. And I think what I would say to a. I mean, there's many people have much more courage than this, but I would say to the one that has a vulnerability hangover is just remember what it's for and remember what's more important than the hangover. And I think that's always what has driven me, is just sharing something. I'm not an oversharer, as you know. Like, I only grow more private. However, when there's something that, you know, that's what I would tell the future self. I would just say just remember what it's for, what it's in service of. I always appreciate when I hear a podcast and someone's genuine and honest and not trying to be perfect. Like, I love those moments when I get them on shows I listen to because it is such a reminder that we're all human. All the things you've been saying are probably what I would come back to now.

Just check in with that part. And yeah, it might show up tomorrow, but it's also here now. It's a part inside you now. So just check in and notice how it feels, how what you said lands, which the essence of it is this is in service to my wellbeing and others. And kind of like what I hear you saying is like, thank you.

Oh, I like that. I wouldn't have thought to thank that part because they're still not happy, but they're going to allow it. Like, that part will allow the episode to go live, but we'll be nervous on the day of. But I like the idea of just saying thank you. Hey, thanks. Like, I know you're a little edgy about this, but thanks in advance. That's very thoughtful.

And you Know, if we had had more time, I would have asked it, like, which I think you spoke to. But. But what is it trying to do for you? Why is it showing up with criticism? And it seems like the why is to protect you from that experience of being too needy, too much of a burden. It can sometimes help in speaking to a part to say, hey, I know, and I appreciate your intention. And what I want to say, Adrian, now to you, Jenny, is like, while you may experience these vulnerability, you may experience a little bit of this hangover criticism tomorrow. It sounds like you've done this in the past, and you keep doing it, which leads me to believe, like, you can also handle it. And it felt like you just were there in your core self realizing, I'm doing this for a reason, and I can handle it. And it does take courage, and I appreciate my courage. And it's kind of like you're saying to that part or I'm saying to it now, but I heard this from you. We can handle it. Yeah, it's uncomfortable, but we're okay. And this is a part of what I'm here to do.

I will say yes, and I'll have some homework because I know we're out of time, but yes. Although it's lower stakes because someone listening can just turn off the podcast if they're sick of me talking about this. Whereas with friends or family or something where, like, being overly needy or not independent, I feel like I'm. I don't know. It's just much more uncomfortable if it's in the container of a relationship because this feels so optional and low stakes. Anyone could just turn it off. And I'm like, well, maybe they already have. They didn't even get to this. So that could be something that I think about or we even continue, for both of us, of how this shows up.

Yeah, I think that's cliffhanger. Yeah. So one more minute to come back to the good girl then. And kind of same thing, like, what do you want to say to the good girl that also showed up in this exploration of your inner world? What do you want to acknowledge about her or say to her before we end?

I guess just. It's a really tough way to live, to only think about other people's opinions and reactions. And I guess I would just say take the pressure off. Like, you have a kind heart. I'm not trying to throw anyone under the bus or criticize anyone at all. It's just. I don't know. I honestly don't know, because that voice is Very prominent and concerned of people. I never want to make anybody mad.

Yes. So I think this also shows us there's more to do. I think I'm kind of trying to force wrapping it up a little bit prematurely. And let's not do that. And let's just appreciate you again for opening up your world and being so vulnerable and courageous and all the parts for showing up, the good girl, the vulnerable part, the critical part, the independent part, like, these are all working toward some care for you, even if they're a little misaligned. Sometimes I personally can say, I imagine this is true for other people, but I can see all of these inside of me. I do feel like that intention you have of being courageous and being vulnerable, you know, for the benefit of all definitely is happening. So thank you.

Well, thank you, Adrian, for holding this space as you always do. You have since the day I met you. Thank you. And if anyone is still here listening, thank you for holding space into the future. And yeah, I'll thank all the parts. And Adrian, I feel like, yeah, there's so much more we can discuss here from both of our sides. So we'll leave a cliffhanger whenever Adrian returns to the pod. We'll pick this up where we left off or somewhere thereabouts. So thank you again for just walking me through this and see, here's the hangover. It's coming in already.

Thank you.

Thank you. I really appreciate you and for just continuing these conversations. And I just want to remind people it's really rare that Adrian has any spots at all to work with him one on one, but he does now, so I'm going to put that link in the show notes. Thank you, Adrian. Thank you everybody for listening.

Thank you.

Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the Pivot podcast. Make sure you don't miss an episode or my insider tips and templates by signing up for Pivot List, a curated twice monthly newsletter where I share the inside scoop on what I'm reading, watching, listening to and the latest tools I'm geeking out on. Sign up@pivotmethod.com pivotlist get show notes from this episode@pivotmethod.com podcast and connect with me on Twitter ennyblake.

Remember, build first, then your courage will follow. Hasn't it always.