332: IFS Part(s) Two—Understanding Our “Not Enough” Exiles with Adrian Klaphaak

Let's drop the criticism. Because that edge with the kind of the meanness, the criticism like, oh, you're not good enough, that part of it. And try to take the criticism as it's constructive, as how is this part of me trying to help me grow? And when I look through that lens of how can I make this better, how can I improve myself and the offering I have, then I really appreciate that motivation to be better, to do better work.

What's next? This is a question we're all having to ask and answer more frequently. I'm Jenny Blake, your host of the Pivot podcast and author of the only move that matters is your next one.

For show notes from this episode, visit pivotmethod.com podcast. If change is the only constant, then let's get better at it. Here we go.

Welcome back, Pivoters. I am so excited to be here again today with recurring co host Adrienne Clapack, who also happens to be my first coach. This is our ninth installment in the Pivot by Career Pathfinder program playlist. We're working toward that album, that debut album. So I'll put the link to our Spotify playlist in the show notes and today's conversation is building on episodes three 19, who's Sitting in the Boardroom of youf Brain, and episode 328, Accessing youg True Self through IFS. I wanted to give a special shout out and thank you to two listeners who commented within Spotify the episode page. For each podcast or each episode, there's a little place to leave a comment. And so thank you. Cvincent71 said, thank you so much for being vulnerable in this episode. It meant a lot to me to go with you on your journey. That feels incredibly similar to my own. And Terri said, thank you for being so vulnerable with all of us. That was feedback on episode 328 and now I just got to give it right back. To say those types of comments were exactly what I was saying at the end. That to know that it reaches you in some way, that it might help your day in some way, just makes the whole thing worth it.

So.

So with that, Adrian, welcome back to the show.

Thank you, Jenny. Great to be here. And I can add to the feedback. It was less direct, but I had a bunch of people reach out for consultations to explore working together immediately following the previous IFS episode that we did. And it was different on those consultations with people. It was like they already knew me. They already knew the model. We got right into it. And it was really fun and very rich right from the start. So thank you.

Oh, sure. That's so awesome. Yeah, we mentioned last time and it is still true that Adrian has some spots available to work with him one on one, which is rare. So we said in the last conversation, if you want to book a free consult with him, you can, I mean, try to only book if you actually are looking for a coach. It's not the kind of thing to just schedule a coffee talk, but it is so fascinating when you do have a medium like the podcast. I noticed the same thing that I would go to sales calls for even something like a speaking event and the person would say, oh my gosh, I just can't believe you're on the phone. I'm thinking I'm gonna sell you. But wait a second. Like, this is the easiest phone call I've ever had to do to try to land a gig, because there was already this relationship there. Even if it's a little bit one sided, the technical term would be parasocial. I think it's. What's so beautiful about podcasts is that we really get to know each other through this medium in so many directions. Host, guests, listeners, and myself included. As an avid podcast listener, I think.

There may have been something particularly resonant from the last episode because you were so vulnerable, truly, authentically, spontaneously sharing and revealing your inner world, your inner process. And it reminds me of Brene Brown's work on vulnerability, which is so brilliant, and the essence of it being that vulnerability is required for genuine human connection and it's what we're all craving, and yet it's terrifying. It really takes courage to be vulnerable. And so I want to again appreciate your courage, your willingness to be brave and to be vulnerable, and then look at what it does.

Thank you. It's such an interesting journey because I've been putting stuff out publicly online for 18 years now, and I still have those nerves and the hesitation every single time. What I find interesting, even if someone listening, if you're not a blogger, podcaster, writer, type, it's such a counterintuitive thing that we think we need to present this buttoned up self to other people. And I know sociologists talk about different masks that we wear, and that's a normal human adaptation to put on different masks for different scenarios. And yet time after time after time, the thing that really connects people is vulnerability. It's like if you're the friend that's only ever giving advice, nobody wants to be friends with you. But if you can Be a little vulnerable and say, and this is something I constantly work on and say, I'm struggling with this. I would love to hear your thoughts or I would love to know how you've handled things like this or in your experience or just, I'm having a hard time right now. That is actually where the relationship gets built in. One on one friendships, relationships, even this type of medium. That's like, it's so counterintuitive because you think if I put out this side of me, people will judge me and then they'll run for the hills, but it's always the opposite.

And that's a good segue to come back to where we left off. Because. And when I say left off, I mean in the little sort of demo ifs session that we did at the end of the last podcast, we were working with your various parts. And I think you started with the people pleaser or some version of it. People pleaser, good girl. Which is all about trying to be who you think you're supposed to be, to not upset other people, not piss anybody off. And then amidst that, when you started to peel back the layers, there was a lot of vulnerability that you brought forward. And then the hangover part, the, oh, God, this was too much. But I know I'm going to be critical of myself the next day for being so vulnerable. And then even that independent part that says, ah, I don't want to deal with any of this. I just want to be able to do it all on my own. Yeah. I'm curious to check back in with you following that. What has been alive in your inner world since our last conversation?

Definitely the vulnerability hangover. I've been having those every day because I'm trying to work on a new, more personal writing project too. And also the manager part that I would just refer to. I think I texted you after we spoke that I call it the inner editor that will definitely pick out, if not the entire exercise that we did that was going to go live on the podcast. It will kind of, in an almost paranoid way, hone in on one phrase or one sentence that's really gonna offend someone. And I can just pick any random person. Sometimes I have someone in mind, sometimes I don't. And so the editor starts really going wild, like, oh, should we take that out? Should I put that in the notes to the production team? And we're like genuinely really working hard. The wheels are turning. Not just is the whole thing okay, but how about let me just pick one thing to kind of stare at and Consider. And then having it go live. Okay. It was exciting. I mean, there is a little bit of a thrill, I think, to taking these types of risks because it is a step toward being seen. And I do find, and I really was grateful for your help excavating these different aspects that I had not really put names to in these ways, that there's something that takes the sting away just to say it out loud and be heard. Heard by you. You're so skilled at holding space. And then friends and listeners, people who reached out, like, every single moment that someone comments or interacts, it's just like a continual, reciprocal healing process that I found very rewarding.

It touched people. You could feel that, and your world didn't fall apart and you didn't get storms of angry people screaming at you. It was kind of the opposite. Right? People appreciating your vulnerability and letting you know that that helped them. And I remember a moment in the session when you were saying, I really want this to be of service to people. Like, yes, it's hard. I know I'm going to have this vulnerability hangover. It's emotionally difficult to be in all this material. And some version of, like, it's okay, though. I can deal with it because I really want to be of service. It seems like that deeper self, that truth, that purpose in you, is a part of why you do this. Would you say that's true?

Yes. And there's probably a sneaky manager hiding in there that if it's a work product, I've essentially done something, quote, productive, and I have produced an article or an artifact that is going to be helpful and it will be of service. I think a small part of that is the manager at work, because like I said at the end of that last conversation, well, listeners can just turn off the podcast. It's not that vulnerable already. Now, midway into this conversation, I'm thinking, who's turned it off already? You know, do I need to, like, get to a different point? Or whatever? That narrative is always going. And so I think sometimes the manager says, oh, well, at least we created a podcast episode. Whereas if I were in a container that had nothing to do with work, I wonder how I would be feeling. I don't know. I don't know how vulnerable I would be in a situation. I don't know. Just thinking out loud, just talking out loud. But I do think there's some aspect. I do feel that my purpose on this planet is to be of service. I've always felt that that's very strong, and it is my North Star. And it's more in my comfort zone to be of service in creating work product kind of way than to just straight up be vulnerable without, like, adding to the world. And just that feels like, ooh, that's that needy taker energy that we were exploring a little bit.

What's interesting about hearing your process is I feel like we all have so many truths sort of happening at one time, or so many experiences happening in ones. The one experience is like, yuck, I can't handle this, or I really don't like this. It's too vulnerable. Then we have the yes, but also, I really do feel like this is a part of my purpose and is of service. And there's some thrill in that. We can use ifs and all these other modalities to understand more about what's happening. And like you said, I think what it hopefully does is it. Did you say, takes some of the sting out or softens or something like that. Yeah. And then the parts are still there, the feelings are still there. It doesn't magically evaporate everything, but it seems like in your case, it allows you to continue to do the thing that you really feel moved to do, that you want to do in a deeper way and have the resilience, have the strength to also hold the discomfort along the way.

Yeah. I've been using this phrase a lot with Michael and with Voxer coaching clients of 51 49. Like, whatever I do that looks courageous or interesting is 49% neuroses and worries and vulnerability, hangover, et cetera. And 51% I'm going to do it anyway. I'm gonna move the ball forward an inch today and again tomorrow and again the next day. And that's my personal constant ratio. It's just 51, 49. The 49 does not go away. It's there, it's strong, it's loud. And I just try to make sure that it stays 2 ticks less than the 51 of the action that I take. How about you? I mean, I know you said you could relate to a lot of the parts that came up last time. Any reflections from you in the interim since that went live?

Yes, immediately. I was critical of my coaching, of what I said, how I guided the conversation, that little demo session. Oh, I could have gone this way or I could have gone that way. Would have been better to go there. That was a mistake. So, absolutely, totally hearing from my critic. And it's more exposed, I would say it's more intense. That's the Word I'm looking for much more intense than when I'm having a session with a client. Nobody else is hearing it, but my process with it is similar, is to say, well, I hope this was useful. I have a sense that even though, yeah, maybe it's not perfect, I'm still learning, of course, as we all are on our path to mastery of whatever we're doing, that I'd rather be trying, I'd rather be being of service. I'd rather be doing something imperfect and stretching myself and growing myself through it. And then I also really see that the critic is. I see what it's trying to do, which is it's trying to help me improve, help me grow, help me do better work. And for that I'm really grateful. So it does help when I listen to its deeper intention enough to say, yeah, okay, what can I learn from that? Let's drop the criticism. Because that edge with the kind of the meanness, the criticism, like, oh, you're not good enough. That part of it. And try to take the criticism as it's constructive, as how is this part of me trying to help me grow? And when I look at myself and review my session with you, or sessions with clients, or my work as a whole, my program, all of it through that lens of how can I make this better, how can I improve myself? And the offering I have, then I really appreciate that motivation to be better, to do better work. So that's where I've been since the session.

We'll be right back, just after this.

Before we started this series that we've done, now that we have nine, you weren't on podcasts all the time, if ever. And your coaching was always private, and you've been coaching for almost two decades now. And so it must be extra vulnerable to take a process that you're used to doing in private, one on one, and somehow just do it out loud for how many thousands of people listening? Like I could imagine that that really turned the volume up.

Yeah, it did. It was scary. It was definitely scary and vulnerable, and it felt like a really good stretch. And it's also an opportunity, I think, to practice really being with my parts and understanding hearing that critic. What is it about, you know, what's the first level? Oh, you didn't do this well enough. You should have done that. This or the other thing. Okay, you know, what's going on? Why? Well, I want you to be good. I want you to be perfect. Why is that important? You know, what are you afraid would happen if I wasn't perfect. You'll be bad. You'll hurt somebody, or you'll miss an opportunity, or you'll. And somebody will be upset or people will think bad of you. And it's like, oh, wow, you really have this idea that you have to be perfect in order to be good. Well, what's that about? You know? And then I'm back in my childhood and all these experiences. And what I notice now, having, yeah, been a coach for almost two decades, been a client of coaches and therapists for two decades as well, and having done a lot of. With this work on myself as well as with clients, is that it's a faster process now, and I kind of know the way, and I am doing it genuinely in the moment each time. And it's simultaneously, like, so frustrating that I'm still dealing with the same parts. The critic, the perfectionist, the I'm not good enough. You know, all these things. It's like the same cast of characters. But I've noticed that it doesn't get me so spun out. I have more of myself present, more compassion, more wisdom, and it's genuinely easier for me to work with that, relate with that part for, like, a couple minutes. And then it softens and I feel like I'm not critical anymore. I'm actually really appreciative of my willingness, of my courage, of my vulnerability that I'm willing to stretch and that also I can get better in the process. And then it comes back again, you know, two days later, whatever, and then it takes just a little bit less time that time. And now I'm like, oh, yeah, that happened. And it doesn't really get me. And I'll be much more, I think, relaxed and willing to do the next one whenever the opportunity presents itself publicly.

Something that I found really interesting is just this idea of exiles and possibly not even knowing they exist if one hasn't done this work, which I hadn't before our conversation last time. And it's interesting because you've mentioned the inner critic and the perfectionist, which I think so many people can relate to. Have you identified in your work in this path? Have you identified, like, who is the exile that the perfectionist is almost the manager, Right. Trying to manage. But what is the exile part that.

The perfectionist doesn't want exposed?

It's I'm not good enough. It's the part of me, the little boy, that feels like he's not good enough. I'm not good enough. I can remember the first time I saw that, felt that, admitted that I Was driving across the Bay Bridge with a friend who was a coach. We think we had just done a workshop or something, and we were talking about it, and I was sharing something about my process. And she was like, oh, yeah, sounds like you don't think you're good enough. And I was like, no, I do think I'm good enough. I'm just sort of struggling with, you know, this thing. She was like, yeah, I don't think so. It sounds like there's a part of you that doesn't think you're good enough. And in the car ride, I was unwilling to accept it. It was, like, so threatening to the perfectionist manager that I have to be good. I've always done well, you know, I've always tried really hard and been able to succeed one way or another. Like, I just couldn't handle that. There could be some part of me that felt like I wasn't good enough. And then later that night, I remember when she had gone and I was just there with all that was triggered, all that was up, I could finally really feel like, oh, I think that's true. I can feel somewhere deep in there is this feeling that I'm not good enough. And that's been a huge, ongoing part of my work, my growth, my healing.

And do you have any sense of where that originated? Like, now you have two very young kids, and I know for sure you and your wife are doing everything you can to, like, really give them all the love and nurturing you possibly can. And so, I don't know. It's like, sometimes I wonder about this, that no matter how good of a job our parents do, how do so many of us still end up with this feeling of not good enough? How do you think that that originated for you?

I have a very clear idea of it from doing this work over many years. And there were different layers of that feeling, that part of me I'm not good enough, showing up, coming out of my psyche, or being creative in my psyche. And I think the first one was the birth of my sister. I have an amazing younger sister who's two and a half years younger than me. So I was two and a half when she was born. It's the very first memory of my life, and I can remember trying to keep up with it. Felt like my dad, who was going to give my mom something because she had just had a baby, and everybody needs a tremendous amount of support when they have a baby, so he's going after whatever to support her, and he was with me. But I felt My world shift. It was like, no longer was I the focus. All of a sudden I had to keep up with my dad. And somewhere amidst that, I think there was the initial seed was planted. Like, there's something else more important happening than me. And it wasn't directly, I'm not good enough. It was like, there's something else happening that's more important. And then fast forward a couple years, and I don't remember any sort of specific events in my family as a kid. But there was this sense in the field of my family that everything had to be just right. And we joke about it now, but my mom held that belief, or if belief is the right word, that was kind of like one of her modes of operating was that there was a right way to do things. And she wanted everything to be just right, organized, perfect, et cetera. And my dad, too, was like, there's a right way to do things and let's get things right. And that's really important. And so as a kid, like, there's no where any child gets things right in a consistent basis. I mean, like, we're all just flailing around trying to figure it out, being spontaneous, free as we should be, as we are, as is authentic when we're kids. And so I think at some point, and I don't know when there was this sense, I started to feel like, oh, mom and dad do it this way, and that's the right way. And my way, just as I exist, isn't right. It's not good enough. I need to be doing things like they are. Then the larger culture, like, starting to get graded in school, and it's like, okay, if I don't get an A, I'm not good enough. My parents had high expectations, so I can't ever remember them getting mad at me for not doing well academically. But I also did well academically. I think I just knew that if I didn't do well, it was not going to be okay. I wasn't going to be good enough. And then getting in trouble in high school for drinking and kind of exploring the edges of wildness and all of that again, I'd get punished, I'd get in trouble. It was like, this is not okay behavior. And through all those sort of multifaceted experiences, I think I developed this sense of like, oh, I'm not good enough just as I am. I have to try. I have to be perfect. I have to get good grades. I have to be well liked. I have to please other people. I can't just be like wild and spontaneous and free because I'm not good enough. So somewhere in there, and then the final thing I'll say is I feel like I don't even know if I've met anybody that doesn't somewhere inside them have some part, some version of themselves that thinks they're not good enough. So it also seems like this weird, universal, developed Western culture belief that we all develop.

That's interesting. Is it unique to Western culture?

Well, I'm not an anthropologist, I couldn't say. But I feel like the light research and limited understanding I have of some indigenous cultures, it's not present in the same way. There's more of a sense of oneness and belonging, belonging to the culture, belonging to the place. And I don't think there's as much a cultural pressure to succeed and be something. And I think that's a big part also of what creates this I'm not good enough feeling parked inside of each of us.

That's so true. Because in individualistic cultures like we have here, it is kind of each one for themselves, sink or swim. We don't have a lot of social support here in the States. So if you do fall out of cultural line, you're screwed in some ways and life will not be easy for you. So you're right. There is so much pressure to conform or die is probably the message that our psyche gets. And then there are also cultures that are conformist in other ways. Like conform is the mantra. Like don't stick out. It is a collective. It's not about you. It's not about your individual identity and expression and goals. It's about the bigger family system. I really appreciate you sharing what you did even growing up, because as you were talking, it struck me too that almost this pressure to fit with the adults, like a pressure to plug in and be whatever the adults needed you to be. Like any child would have that. And yet it is an impossible task for a child. Kind of in hearing you describe it, it just struck me that what kid can plug into the adult universe and be this perfect doll of a kid? They're not going to be by default. Their emotions are going to be a problem. The crying in public is going to be a problem. You know, like there's just so much friction of a child conforming themselves while conforming to try to fit in this adult universe around them.

Yeah, I'm. I'm constantly as a parent, trying to figure out how to support my kids in being who they are as fully and completely as possible. Not putting on Them, my ideas of what's good, what's better, who they should be, you know, what I wish I had done or been able to experience. And then at the same time I'm also trying to educate them about how to navigate this world. And it's really difficult to do both at the same time and especially to do it in such a way where I'm not putting excessive pressure on them, but I'm also not like letting them just totally run wild and free and be the boss of their lives. Like they're in no position to do that as a four and a half year old or a seven month old is really challenging. I understand why we all have these many parts and these sort of somewhat like conflicted, perpetually challenging sort of psyches because life is difficult.

Do you ever have the thought this is what my kid is going to bring up in therapy when they're older and does it bother you?

If so, totally have the thought. I don't know what it is yet, but my wife and I are constantly reflecting on how are we parenting, how can we become better parents? There's all these different approaches and models and what feels genuine for us and worker. Yeah, I have no idea. But I'm sure there'll be numerous things that our kids are bringing up in therapy. And I mean my hope is that I have the humility to receive it, to hear their real anger, frustrations, grief about how I was as a parent and be able to receive it.

See, humility, that's a good word and that's a beautiful thing to say to just have the humility to hear it.

We'll be right back just after this.

Putting myself in any parent's shoes because I'm not a parent of human children, only my fur baby. I could imagine a feeling of frustration that I did the absolute best I could and it still wasn't good enough. And there's the good enough thing again. And like there is a part of me that would get pissed off. I gave you everything. I did the best I could. Like you have no idea what I was juggling. And then it's like the kid is still in therapy. Like something about that would really piss me off. But then that's universal. Who wouldn't have things to bring up about their childhood? So I don't know. There's something that I could see only now as an adult, the parents perspective of saying like we did the best we could, that's as good as it was going to get. I don't know, I don't know. Where else to leave that thought.

But yeah, I feel that when my wife gives me some feedback, when she says, you know, and whatever. Her usually very, very kind.

Articulate words, but whatever she's saying, whatever feedback, it often will land in me like I'm doing something wrong. And that really gets me mad. It pisses me off. I have a hard time receiving it until I realize, oh, wow, okay, wait a second. Like, I don't need to go to I'm wrong, I'm bad. Just because she's telling me that she wishes I had done this, or she makes a request, can you please do this, that or the other thing, or takes some more issue with me. But it's amazing how quickly I go to I'm wrong, I'm bad. And then when I'm there, it's very hard to just hear the feedback and go, oh, yeah, okay, you felt this way when I did that and you want me to do that differently. And even if I'm not going to automatically be like, oh, yeah, sure, I'll do that. Oh, you're, you know, absolutely, you're right. It may not be that, but just that I can actually hear it and process it without getting triggered and pissed and angry and frustrated and shame and. And all these things. And this is like a relatively small thing, but it's amazing how quickly I can go to those places. And so to bring it back to ifs, I'm really grateful to have this model and just coaching and therapy as well, just this whole, whole growth path to have these models and have this awareness that I can recognize what's happening and hopefully not always, but hopefully work my way out of that limited part, limited place in myself to sort of a more capable, more whole place inside myself and then respond from there. And it's a different life happens from myself than from any number of parts managers, firefighters, exiles.

What you said reminds me of Orna, the wonderful therapist on the TV show Couples Therapy. You can see that when someone feels they feel bad, like they're made to feel bad or wrong, it stops the therapy cold. It's like they overheat. They can't even be in dialogue when they're feeling. It's like shame really, but also just that feeling that I'm bad that it's almost impossible to work with. So you see her doing this dance to try to come at issues and allow the person to hear them, which it sounds like you do so beautifully. And I love what you said about how it can lead to a different life if lived from your true self or your core self, rather than unconsciously from the more domineering parts. I wonder, what do you think we could offer to listeners? Let's say we all have an exile. If you don't, we'd love to hear from you. You literally do not ever have the thought that you're not good enough. But for those of us that do have an exile that believes it's not good enough, what do you think some practices could be or little experiments or things that have worked for you in terms of just raising awareness or shifting focus?

I think it's all about being in relationship with that part. So some ideas off the top of my head.

Art to start by trying to really see and feel and imagine. It's an imaginative exercise. Poet David White often talks about. Or maybe it's John o'. Donohue. I often get them confused. I know they were friends, but they talk about this quality of imagination like a capability that we all have to imagine something. And that that's this great sort of superpower of humans. And I think sort of drawing on that imaginative capability is really helpful when getting to know a part. So, like imagining who is this? And not in a fantastical kind of conjured way, but really trying to see and feel and imagine the truth of who is this part that doesn't feel good enough, that feels like they're bad? And when I say imagine, I mean, like, how old are they? What do they look like? Where are they? Is there a scene or a place that you feel them in? Is there a memory that goes along with feeling this part? Like, when you do feel, when you allow yourself to feel, I'm not good enough, I'm bad, or whatever other exiled parts, challenging parts of yourself you feel to try to imagine in all these different ways and memories and textures and scenes and what would they be saying? And on and on. And to really try to put some visuals, texture, to who this part is. And then from there also then being in relationship with it. Like, once this part becomes more known, more visible, then go again in your imagination and be with that part. And as much as you can be curious about it, like, who are you? Tell me about yourself. How are you feeling? What do you want me to know about you? Whatever other questions you can think of. And from there, you could even journal. Like, I've given this activity to clients. Often after we do some work with a part of them, I'll say, okay, get out a piece of paper and do a dialogue. Almost like a play is written. Like, okay, I, Adrian, say, hey, My dear, I see you there, like, alone in your room, and I can tell you're feeling bad about yourself, and I just want to be here and be with you. Can I come hang out for a little bit? And then I'll write down, you know, like, younger me or boy or whoever, whatever name I might be calling that part of me. And then I'll give that. Write out the response, and I'll imagine, okay, or I'll see, you know, in my mind's eye, how does that boy respond? And he says, sort of reluctantly, like, yeah, sure. And then I, Adrian, you know, will write down, okay, and how do I respond? Like, oh, thanks. You know, it's nice to be here with you. So how are you doing? And then, you know, younger me is like, oh, you know, not so good. Then, Adrian, you know, oh, what's going on? What are you feeling? And on and on and on, and just say to my clients, just play it out. There's no right, wrong. You know, you can crumple this up and throw it away, and probably a good idea to rip it up completely so that you don't have any concerns. Is anybody going to find it? Or whatever, because it's vulnerable. But whatever you need to do to just give yourself the full permission. And sometimes it can take a little while and feel kind of forced and awkward and weird in the beginning, but I'll often notice that, and I hear this from clients as well. They can really get into some flow with it if they give themselves, you know, 15, 20 minutes and see what emerges, see what shows up, and come back to it.

That's awesome. I love the idea of writing it like a screenplay, and that just has a light feeling to it. Even if the material that comes up is deep and vulnerable, it's just flowing as a natural conversation. And I always found clients to be so resourceful when I would say, pretend you're calling Oprah on the phone and you're Oprah and I'm you. Whenever we would play these imagination games or exercises, they were brilliant. Like you said, we have the capacity to do this and maybe with a little warmup, but to almost immediately tap in to these hidden parts that just. We've just never had the conversation before. So thank you for sharing this exercise.

Yeah, I want to sort of give a challenge to anybody who's feeling like this might be a good idea. This is interesting because I'll liken what I'm about to say to going to the gym. You don't get stronger fitter by thinking about going to the gym or wanting to be stronger, fitter, a better athlete, to acquire those abilities by actually doing it, by going there, by running, by lifting the weights, swimming, whatever it is that you do, because it takes the practice. It takes like actually working it, doing the thing. I know the same is true for strengthening our inner world. This isn't the only way to do it, but this is a good way. But we have to actually sit down, take the time, stop whatever it is that we're doing, and actually be with these parts and engage them in dialogue. Or see a coach, a therapist, or even a mentor, friend, whoever it is, that can actually hold this space for you to practice, for you to do the work. It doesn't take. Well, I shouldn't say it doesn't take that much. It's a big thing to step into. But it definitely takes doing it to start to feel a shift.

Well, great reminder and I give kudos to anyone who has the courage to do therapy coaching. It's vulnerable. It's so vulnerable. I don't do much of it. I know you do, Adrian, but I have a funny relationship with therapy too. So that's for a future podcast.

That'll be for a future convo. Is there anything else you'd want to share or say before we wrap up?

I always appreciate the opportunity to be here and share my work, share the things that I'm constantly engaging in and fascinated by. And I appreciate everybody listening and I hope it was useful. And thank you, Jenny, for the opportunity.

Yeah, and thank you for sharing so much of what you've discovered along your journey and just through doing this work. It was really helpful to hear and I know it sparked a lot of insights on my end too, just like it did last time. So I'm sure that's true for listeners as well. And listeners, I'll just remind you it is super rare that Adriene even has one on one spot. So if you are looking for someone to do this work with, or even just career coaching in general, to figure out what's next as we continue to be in just wild times of 2023, Adrienne is amazing and I'll put the link to schedule that consult in the show notes. So Adrian, thank you again for being here and doing this with us and listeners for we take requests. If you have a question you want to submit to the two of us to tackle on a future Jenny and Adrienne collab, let us know. You can leave us a voice memo by sending a voice note to helloivotmethod.com or visit pivotmethod.com ask thanks so much for listening. Have a beautiful rest of your day.

Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the Pivot Podcast. Make sure you don't miss an episode or my insider tips and templates by signing up for Pivot List, a curated twice monthly newsletter where I share the inside scoop on what I'm reading, watching, listening to, and the latest tools I'm geeking out on. Sign up@pivotmethod.com pivotlist get show notes from this episode and @pivotmethod.com podcast and connect with me on Twitter @jennyblake.

Remember, build first, then your courage will follow. Hasn't it always.