345: How Are We Holding Ourselves Back? with Adrian Klaphaak of Career Pathfinder

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What's next? This is a question we're all having to ask and answer more frequently. I'm Jenny Blake, your host of the Pivot podcast and author of the only Move that Matters is your next one.

For show notes from this episode, visit pivotmethod.com podcast if Change is the only constant, then let's get better at it. Here we go.

Welcome back, Pivoters. I am so excited to be back on the mic with recurring co host Adrienne Clapack. This is our 10th conversation in the Pivot by Career Pathfinder series. I'll link to the full Spotify playlist in the show notes and today we're taking a few listener questions. In addition to addressing the ways that we hold ourselves back, I also want to put out a special invite if you want to join us live for a future virtual taping of this show. Maybe someday we'll do it in person. I'm going to put a link in the show notes to register for our next recording date because we would love to meet you if you want to join. You can stay on background lurking if you want. I'm pro lurker. You can write to us in the chat, or if you're feeling brave, you can come off mute and ask a question quote on air. Even though it won't air in that moment, it would air on the Pivot podcast later. So before we get into it today, Adrian, welcome back.

Thanks Jenny. Good to be here.

I wanted to share a wonderful comment that we got from Adam Zach, who was referencing a conversation I had with K He and he said, you talk about the continually changing context for the question what is it that you truly want? Adam writes, you both mention your respective ages along with the aging of your target audience and how that will impact the evolution of what you produce, produce and for whom. My thought is that most people at most times in their lives don't really have a great answer to that question. I'm going to figure out how to do something with that exciting time to be alive, isn't it? And I just love this because Adam said He's in his 70s, and he said, I've had a great career and I'm at a new point now and I still don't know what I want. And so I just love this permission set from Adam to all of us. It's okay if there's no there there in terms of what do I want for my career? Where am I going? What's next? It's like, even when we have those figured out, there is going to be an inevitable moment of change and renewal again, where we have no clue that Adam's kind of saying, it doesn't matter. At any age, that question will always kind of be hovering around.

I remember the poet David White saying, what is the question that has no right to go away? You know, the question that you don't want to have go away? And this is one of those. I think, what do you want? What do I want?

And then I saw someone publish recently, what do youo really, really Want? I think it was Elise Lunan, and she encourages people to journal on that and even then say it out loud. Because sometimes what we want is just surface level. We almost hold ourselves back, which is the topic of today's conversation, thinking, well, I shouldn't want that, or I'm not allowed to want that, or it would be just greedy of me. And so we don't even allow ourselves to say what we really, really want.

So true. Yeah. I find with a lot of clients that I'm working with that part of what I'm doing as a coach is asking that, what do you really, really want? Question. And even if they don't have an immediate answer, giving them permission to explore, dream, blurt things out, journal about it, write about it, go through my process of discovery to try to get to that. But essentially, it's about looking deeper inside of ourselves and also giving ourselves permission to want what we want and be courageous enough to speak it out.

And then on the flip side, I've always appreciated, I heard it from Tim Ferriss, Jerry Colonna's question, how are you complicit in creating the conditions you say you don't want? So that's something I'm always reminding myself, too, that there's the wants on the one side of the spectrum, and then there's the things that are no longer working or serving me, and how am I continuing to create those conditions? I remember going through so much of this with just scheduling and calendar chaos. We also Got a submission from Emily, who's asking a question less to do with what she wants when job searching, but almost wondering, what do you do with parts of your career or history that you don't want to share? Share or that you don't know how to share or own? So do you mind just teeing that up for us?

Yeah, this was a great question. Thank you, Emily. I'll summarize. Emily's asking about time off. If you've taken time off due to mental health challenges, how do you handle that when interviewing and coming back to trying to find a job? And also, how do you own that time and get comfortable with that time that you took as well?

There's two really interesting parts of this. One is like, how do you get yourself to believe that it's okay that you took that time for mental health reasons? And Emily said, when it all gets too overwhelming, and it's so true. So there's that piece of, like, dealing with mental health issues is so grueling sometimes, and it's hard enough, as is job searching, even in the best of times, is completely overwhelming and can be so discouraging in moments. And. And so not only how do you own that for yourself, let alone tell the story to a recruiter who's sitting at you kind of scrutinizing your resume in front of them, saying, oh, tell me about this time. And I can totally imagine just feeling kind of frozen, not knowing what to say. Do you have any pointers? And then I'm happy to share, too.

Where I go with that is thinking that our challenges can sometimes lead us toward our calling. So the things that we have to work with, not by our choice but just by circumstance we have to work with, do lead to us developing and growing strengths and knowledge. So one thing would be to think about how this might direct you toward careers that have to do with mental health, potentially. The other thing would be thinking about how have you grown in this time? What have you learned? What skills have you developed? It could be resilience. It could be emotional intelligence. I could imagine even saying to recruiter or somebody that I'm interviewing with. I felt like I just needed some time to myself after so much school to take a little bit of a break and get in touch with what I really wanted to do and. And what I'm really good at. And those things are this. And that's why I'm applying to this position, because I know it's aligned with what I'm good at and what I'm passionate about.

I was going to say something similar that as you said, it can actually be informative as to someone's calling. And there may even be companies like I know one of my neighbors here in New York works at a mental health startup and there are many companies now that are focusing on mental health directly and specifically as part of their mission. So I wonder if even in a way it's counterintuitive but like doubling down on the mental health challenges in the sense that you've been through it, you've been through the wringer and now maybe you really do have value to add or a perspective to share that would be helpful for companies who are doing their best to address that. And the other thing I would say is I love what you said, Adrienne, of the framing. You don't have to say I took leave or I took time off due to mental health. It is still true that you took time to reset and pause and be very deliberate about what you do next because you want to show up at your best and at your clearest. And it took time to figure out what that best fit role and organization would be. And that's why I'm so excited to have found you company company xyz. Because in my searching I realized that what I really value is this and my biggest strengths are that. And I saw this role and it was the first thing in a while that I really leapt at, you know, and just kind of like transitioning it without feeling like you have to give a detailed itinerary of that time in between.

A couple other things that might be helpful are from where you are now, you could try to volunteer to get some experience doing something that direct relates to the type of job that you want to get. So if you've already taken, you know, a year or two, another couple months may not make much of a difference, but would provide this experience from which you can share about and is a very sort of real on the resume reference point you have that proves your interest and ability to do the thing that you want to do. And then the other thing is talking to people for informational interviews. It's so tempting to just apply to jobs online because it's easier and it takes less courage than reaching out to somebody. But starting to reach out to people that are doing interesting work and having informational interviews could lead to a job and you might be less scrutinized than if you're one of hundreds of applicants online. And it also feels different from the perspective of you, the job seeker when you have a warmer introduction to somebody and they get to know you and they believe in you and they pass your name along to someone else. It's just a more hospitable and effective approach to getting back into the.

And I'll just add two more things before we move on the kind of wilder, bigger risk, Hail Mary type move that I've been known to do in the past. You don't have to do this, but at some point, if you're feeling brave, you might choose to write about this time of your life and maybe writing about it, no one ever sees it, and you write about it for yourself and that's as far as it gets. And there's something cathartic about that to where you can own your story and how you've grown and what you got coming through it. Sometimes it feels really empowering to actually share your story. Like today I read in the Free Press a story of a kid who said you can get addicted to marijuana. And I know because I was, when I was 12 years old. And he said every time he talks to anyone over 30 about marijuana, they say that it's not addictive, but he knows firsthand that it is. And that the THC and the vape pens and what he and his age group and his cohort have access to. He lives in la, has nothing on your parents weed or your grandparents weed. And it was like here was somebody just so vulnerably sharing a really challenging time of his life in service of other people. And I could imagine that maybe this kid is nervous. He's probably not a kid anymore, but he's not that old either. I think he's still relatively young, in his early 20s. And that at some point, if somebody asks a question about a certain period in that time, he can point them to this really thoughtful, well written piece about his journey. And again, this is like not for the faint of heart, but it's something that I have often found a pressure release valve for myself when it's been enough time, enough time has passed and I'm able to share my story in service of others.

Beautiful. That is so true about you, Jenny.

Thank you. And the last thing I want to say is sometimes I think we get really insecure. We know what our big weakness, like in Capital W, blinking lights is, or what we think it is on our resume. And there's so much going on in a job search and that matching process that I almost picture it like a blemish on our face, where we think like everybody's staring at it and everyone knows that it's there and no amount of makeup or lighting is going to cover it when in fact they don't notice it at all. So there's been times I've done things for fancy sites like CNBC or Business Insider and I have like hair sticking up at the back of my head and I can't stand watching those videos back because it's all I see. But then maybe no one else noticed or cared. So don't assume either that this thing that you think is going to be such a problem and just such a you're Achilles heel. We all have that. So as much as you can, if you feel yourself getting anxious that this is the reason it's not working out so often, whether it's jobs or dating or whatever, things pass us by to have no fault of our own. And one of the most frustrating things about job searching is you have no clue. Most people don't give any feedback and the only way out is through. You just gotta keep going.

We'll be right back just after this.

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With that. Adrienne, you recently co led a session with Amanda on your team about how people are holding themselves back and I'm curious what you shared. Like what were some of those big ways that we do that and we can dig into some of those.

Yeah, I'm excited to share. It was a really engaging session, one of the more engaging we've had in a long time. So I think the topic resonated with a lot of people and it's so relevant because if we're trying putting all this energy into trying to figure something out, but we're looking sort of Ahead and we're not looking in or where we currently are at. What's holding us back? You know, we're sort of spinning our wheels or not getting very far and not understanding why. So I think this question, how are we holding ourselves back? It's a really good one. In addition to the what do we want? Question that we kind of brought up at the beginning because it helps us understand part of the problem and then we can solve it more directly or try to solve it, try to work through it. So there are a bunch of ways, as you might imagine, that we all hold ourselves back. This was particularly in the context of how we hold ourselves back from finding our calling, from finding meaningful work, doing something we love. So I'll run down a couple that resonated and maybe, Jenny, you can tell me what's most interesting to you that you want to get into first. So one of them was doing what you should be doing. One was being too practical, overly practical. Another one was looking for perfection, going for the perfect thing, the perfect next step, the perfect project, et cetera. Then there was the fear of failure, which we also kind of lumped into doubting your abilities or undervaluing your ability to do the thing that you really want to do and not having enough time and then generally sort of staying in your comfort zone. Kind of like a lot of thinking about it and trying to figure it out and maybe obsessing over it, but not much action, not much exploration. Stretch.

Which one of those do you currently struggle with the most?

I think for me, it's probably.

Being too practical or going for perfection. Maybe it was previously going for perfection mostly, and now it's being too practical. And when I say being too practical, it can sound a lot of different ways for different people. The too practical for me, the being too practical looks like, well, I have a business that's working well that I really enjoy with a great team. My life is full with two young kids, and I love spending time with them and my wife and want to more and more. So I don't have a lot of time. Time is scarce. And so being practical for me looks like, well, all this is working really well. Why do I want to say no to new clients that I enjoy working with so that I can invest in in something new that is really alive and exciting and inspiring for me that I know is going to take some time and work and energy to develop and practice and build and then become a part of my business. So I end up saying, let me just continue with what's Working and good rather than going for the bigger dream I have right now in this moment in time, I'd say that's what's most present for me.

It's kind of like we talked about before you hit record. It took you a while to get a new computer that you'd rather not change, go through all the hassles of it, figuring out which one. You'll just keep the old one sputtering along until you have to trade it or get a new one.

Yes, yes.

I think it's interesting you framed this as, how are you holding yourself back from your calling? And that piece gets me really curious because in what you described, with everything working so well and being in a relative comfort zone, especially while you have young kids, seems super reasonable and, yes, practical. But also you're being present and you're embracing what is, and you're not chasing the new thing just to do it. Do you feel that currently being overly practical is holding you back from a certain expression of your calling? Is there something calling to you already, or are you just in a sweet spot where that voice is not beckoning at the moment?

I think it's a little bit of both. I certainly feel without a doubt like one part of my purpose in this life or calling is. Is family, is being a father. And I know that I have this precious, precious moment right now with two young kids that is fleeting. So the time that I spend with my kids instead of working on that sort of next exciting project with my career does very much feel like a decision aligned with my calling, aligned with my purpose. So I wouldn't say that's me holding myself back by being too practical. I would say that's really listening to the first question we came into this session with. The what do I really, really want? It's to be with my kids and just savor the deliciousness of this moment. And when I think about what I really, really want, there are other things. They're not at that tippy top priority of being with my kids, but they're important to me. They're real. And one of them, in my work has always been ways to get people more deeply in touch with their soul, their deepest power, their calling, their purpose. And there are methods like breath work and the altered state of consciousness that shows up there and the possibilities for guiding visualizations and using breath work to get people in touch with their power and purpose. I want to bring more of that into my work. And I've done it and I'm doing it, and it is happening. But it's something that when I speak about being too practical, it's like seeing less clients to spend more time training and learning more and more about that feels impractical right now. But then it's also, I'm like, wait a minute, I know that that speaks deeply to me. That is also a part of my calling. So where I go with it is trying to find some way smaller ways and kind of accepting that I'm not going to be able to go on the week long retreat and do that and learn that and bring that back to my clients. But I can do a weekend retreat or a weekend workshop in it and I can do it now. So I've tried to be more accepting of what I can do and not say no, I can't do it. It has to wait until, you know, whatever my kids are in school. But to try to do the little bit that I can to keep it alive, to keep feeding it.

I keep picturing the time you did the solo quest. Was it in the desert or in the woods?

The high desert. A mixture.

And how long was that? It was completely by yourself?

Yeah, I've done a number of these sort of wilderness fasts where I'm with other people, but we're doing this individually I guess. There have been some in the forest and some in the desert now as I think back on them. But you go out alone for three, four days with water, no food and as minimal of gear is needed to be safe. And there's a lot of time and space to be with yourself and be with nature and listen in a very deep way.

Well, I appreciate you sharing in a way, the purpose is manyfold now because one purpose is being an amazing husband, father and being really present with your kids. And I just had a big smile as you were describing this delicious time of their life. And so it's interesting too reconciling when we have multiple purposes that come into play. It's not just about career calling. You are also being called forth as a family man in this time. And in a way I almost want to add to this list. One way we might hold ourselves back is expecting to do it all or expecting or sort of beating ourselves up that we're not going all out on all fronts of our life at the same time. And I feel that like I feel that I do what I can. I just struggle to balance family, business and health. And I'll just catch some Huberman video of like all the things I should be doing every day and just utterly failing at. So I think Sometimes we're not even holding ourselves back, but in a way we are held back by juggling so many things as life gets more complex. Not necessarily in a bad way, just in the realistic limits of time and space, you know.

Yeah, it makes me think about too, the perfection. Like you're saying all the things that I should be doing with health and with the daily routine and this, that or the other thing. And I used to not do something until I felt like I could do it perfectly. So, for example, with deeper soul work, breath work, et cetera, I might say, okay, I'm not even going to try that. I'm not even going to do that until my kids are in school and I have plenty of time to do it. And I think parenting in part has helped me stop with perfection or lessen the perfection and realize if I wait for the perfect opportunity, I'm never going to do anything other than just keep up with the inertia of what's happening now with the business and with a family and in my own self in life and et cetera. That is. I've seen personally the shift in letting go of some of the perfection and sort of accepting it doesn't have to be perfect and I'm actually happier and I'm able to contribute more value if I go and do the thing to the best of my ability. Of course, learn it well enough to be able to do this with integrity, but to not wait until it's so perfect to take the opportunity. So that's positive. Yeah, in my world.

We'll be right back just after this.

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That's been a helpful antidote for me too. For almost every one of these on the list that you gave. Like just taking a tiny step. I've Talked about my 51:49 ratio. It was on my friend Jonathan's Sparked podcast. I'll put the link in the show notes where I'm usually like 49% just a mess, you know, afraid, worried, perfectionistic, whatever it is. And then I just make sure that it's 51% tipped to action. Tiny action. I do not really ever expect to feel courageous, ready, qualified. I don't. 49% don't. I just tried to 51% got to do something, write something, schedule it, hit publish, send an email, schedule a phone call. It's just 51. That's it. I'm responsible for the 2% that tips the scale.

That's brilliant. This is the first I've heard you speak of this. It seems like it would work really well. How has it served you?

It's been good. I mean, it came to me as I was working on the new substack, Rolling in Dough because I'm so afraid of that project. Like I think something for me when the pandemic hit and corporate work slowed down so much, it kind of shook something loose in me where I had been holding myself back, trying to always be palatable for future clients. And it was just the same way I would try to be palatable when I worked within a company or for a future company. So whether it was full time or now, from the container of self employment, I've always often joked about the great resume in the sky. This even goes back to Emily's question where it's like, who am I trying to impress all the time? And something kind of snapped in me in 2023 where I just thought, I cannot hold myself back anymore from saying how things really are, especially as a business owner. It has been so tough the last few years and I really tried to smile and keep a good face and stay optimistic and only share the good parts. But something in me this year was like, I cannot stand putting on a good face when I know how hard it is not just for me, but for every single person I get on the phone with, one on one tell me what a hard time they're having and at a certain point it becomes a disservice, me holding myself back. I feel like my calling oftentimes is to just go through something the hard way and then share openly about it and I was holding myself back because I didn't want to repel future business or future clients. And I felt like, well, if I share honestly, it's like nobody wants to go to the restaurant that has no patrons in it. So if I share about what a tough time I've been having, I'm gonna actually become a self fulfilling prophecy, send everybody running for the hills. You wanna go to the restaurant with a line out the door. And so if I convey the stickier sides of solopreneurship and what's not working, it's gonna be a death knell. But that mindset was holding me back from being honest. And the thing I've only ever done, especially when things when really hits the fan, is be honest. And that has actually been the spark. The impetus for all three of my books came from things really going wrong and deciding to talk about it. And there's many bigger tragedies in the world, but just from my little seat and perspective. And so I had to stop holding myself back trying to impress future clients that not only didn't exist in my orbit, had like long since gone away, you know what I mean? I was still trying to present myself or impress people that didn't exist. They were just potential in the future. And I got so sick of it. So that's where 5149 came from. Me needing to just say, is this going to be worth sharing out loud? I don't know. But I'm willing to try. I'm only willing by 2% but I'm willing to try. And I'll link to the essay I wrote an essay about it that I'll put in the show notes.

And I hear that as like if we think about what's the headline, how you were holding yourself back, it sounds like it was trying to look good. Does that sound right? Do what you are supposed to be doing as a business owner.

Yeah, I would say it's not really successful. I don't like the word successful but I feel like, you know, in business you want to present that you have your stuff together, that if someone hires you, it's not going to be a disaster, it's going to be a good choice. And not only should they hire you, look at all these fancy people who are already hiring me and how amazing things are going and like bet on me because momentum is on my side. And I felt like if I shared anything other than that. So yeah, looking good, but also like projecting an air of confidence so that they wouldn't know what was really going on, like, the fact that I even just today was on a call with a corporate client and, like, made myself look nice from the top and the rest is sweats and a mess.

The 49% below. Yes. Yeah, yeah. When I think about this isn't exactly what you're saying, but along these lines of trying to look good, do what we should be doing, which is one of the common places, I think people hold themselves back from finding their calling. What you've just explained is being more honestly and overtly who you are, being real. And I think that's one of the big shifts that has to be made for people to find their calling. And I see this all the time with our clients and people going through the group coaching program is the recognition. Oh, yeah. I started out in my life doing what I thought I should be doing. And even if I was able to succeed in that, which some people are, it didn't bring me the fulfillment that I was looking for. And like you were describing Jenny, it just starts to not feel good anymore. Like, yuck, I'm being kind of inauthentic. This isn't really me. It's taking a lot of effort to maintain this. And then the shift is, okay, who am I? What's real for me? What's my truth? What am I good at? What do I like to do just because I like to do it? What do I need in order to thrive? Because that's what I need in order to thrive and how I'm wired. And then when people connect to those truths about themselves, it becomes easier. It's not like it's easy after that. Becomes easier, though, to follow what's real, what's true, who we are, into the next steps in our work and in our life.

I also really appreciated you highlighting doubting your abilities or undervaluing them. I feel if there's one thing I've done Most consistently for 20 years is undervalue my abilities. Always. I always think I'm worse, not unique, don't have something worth sharing. Didn't matter whether it was in corporate or what I'm doing with my delightfully tiny media company. I'm always thinking there's nothing there until other people reflect and say, oh, this is unique. Oh, you're so good at this. Oh, this is really a skill. Oh, I'm not reading this anywhere else. And it's almost like I learned through the eyes of others. I wish it wasn't that way because I know they say don't look to others for validation, but undervaluing abilities has been a really big one. So I just appreciate you shining light on that because you might think, oh, yeah, I have skills, but they're nothing compared to so and so. And I'll link to another post I wrote on Rolling In Doe about why we shouldn't compare ourselves to 8 billion people now that it's fully made possible by modern technology.

And how have you worked with that? What have been the most useful approaches when you catch yourself undervaluing your abilities?

Well, one is, let me not be the judge of that. Like, let me put the things out and let other feedback roll in. Like, there's that 5,149 again. I gotta get it over the hump. Even if I am doubting myself and undervaluing myself, it's just trying to get better. The other thing is, when I'm undervaluing myself, I'm usually comparing. And I try to remind myself that people did not have these tools even 10, 15 years ago. Basket weavers in tribal cultures did not look at whose basket was better to know if it held their food. So I just try to remind myself, like, it's not natural to be in this hype or globalized competitive environment that we're in. And so, to the extent that I could just keep my eyes on my own paper, the better. How about for you? Do you have any final antidote or anything you want to share of ways we hold ourselves back before we close out with a piece of homework?

Yeah, I think the other one that was resonating for me, and I see this all the time, is resonating in the group session Amanda and I led is around staying in the comfort zone. And I think this could look like applying to jobs online, for example, like only online or doing a ton of online research about the next step in your career, but never actually talking to anybody that's doing that work or going to the conferences where people are gathering and sharing trends and best practices and all of that. And I think people do this because a mixture of, like, oh, maybe undervaluing my abilities or I don't have the time, or I'm scared that I won't have something intelligent to say when I connect with these people. But this theme of staying in the comfort zone until we feel like we know everything about the next thing holds people back so much because it doesn't give a chance to make the connections that can lead to those opportunities. It doesn't give a chance to get in touch with people and get their insight and their knowledge and the benefit of everything that they're working on being shared with you if you ask the right questions doesn't give you the benefit of bumping into something that you weren't even looking for in the first place that's adjacent to the thing that you were excited about that maybe becomes your true calling. So that's a big one that I want to, I guess put out in closing is just to encourage people to explore as much as possible with really that energy of exploration which is like I don't know everything here, but I'm curious about it and I want to go here and ask questions and poke around and see what's there and continue to follow that exploration until I land somewhere where I want to stay. And then once I'm there, then I can really dig in and do the work and take the time to to develop expertise and mastery, which does take time.

So if you could give one tiny piece of homework, try this next experiment. To that end or to the end of really not holding back, doing one step toward finding or following your calling and purpose, what would it be?

I would ask that question directly. So everybody's listened to you and I, Jenny, talk about different ways that we hold ourselves back, that other people hold themselves back. The thing that I would put back on the listener in service of you finding your calling is the question how are you holding yourself back from finding your calling? And write about it, be honest about it. And then next follow up question is okay, and what are you going to do differently? What about you?

I will give the homework. Well, I'm just reading Julia Cameron's right for life and everyone's probably familiar with her idea of morning pages. But the thing that got me jazzed or reminded me is her artist dates. You ask yourself what would I have been just delighted to do as an eight year old? And you take yourself out on a two hour artist date. So even if you're not an artist, I do think that having some fun in this process toward following your calling and your passion and your purpose is that question, what would have excited if you were babysitting your 8 year old self and you had to go schedule a little adventure outside of the house, what would it be and can you go make it happen?

Two hours of ice cream sounds amazing.

Yes, it's like and then what?

Yeah, right, right.

That'd be really fun. Just go on a whole string of adventures. Well, I want to hear from you. So listeners, if you do any of these reflection exercises, let us know. Send us an email. Adrian and I genuinely look forward to hearing from you. So you can always email helloivittmethod.com and we even want to record the next one live. So we'll put a link to that in the show notes in case you want to join us in real time.

Yes, come join us. It would be so fun to hear directly from you live to have a little back and forth mini coaching session or exploration of whatever questions, challenges, excitements, curiosities are happening for you in your career.

Amazing. Well, happy 10th pod episode aversary Adrian of our series. Yeah, right back at you and already looking forward to the next one.

Thanks Jenny.

Thanks so much. Thanks everybody for listening.

Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the Pivot Podcast. Make sure you don't miss an episode or my insider tips and templates by signing up for Pivot List, a curated twice monthly newsletter where I share the inside scoop on what I'm reading, watching, listening to and the latest tools I'm geeking out on. Sign up@pivotmethod.com pivotlist get show notes from this episode@pivotmethod.com podcast and connect with me on Twitter. Twitter ennyblake.

Remember, build first, then your courage will follow. Hasn't it always.

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