67: What Does Your Soul Know? Flow and Transparency with Penney Peirce

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Greetings everyone. Welcome back to the Pivot Podcast. I am over the moon with glee today to have someone I long admired from afar who has since become a good friend, Penny Pierce, back on the show. Penny is a gifted clairvoyant, empath and visionary and one of the pioneers in the intuition development movement. She's a popular author, lecturer, counselor, and train specializing in intuition development, inner energy dynamics, expanded perception transformation, and dream work. And we are here today talking about her latest book. This is our fourth go round on the Pivot Podcast with more to follow on her latest book, Transparency Seeing through to Our Expanded Human Capacity. Penny, welcome to the show.

It's so good to be back on the Jenny and Penny Show.

I love it. The Jenny and Penny Show. This is one of those things that I could not have dared to dream would have happened. And I told you before we hit record that I was going to share the story of our friendship and not even tell you what I was going to say. So let me tell everyone listening that it started with I bought a book called the Intuitive way back in 2014. Didn't read it, was probably intimidated, was probably a little scared of what would start to happen if I really listened to my intuition. What would that do? A little nerve wracking. It wasn't until I went to Bali, I took an intuition class. I came home and this book practically jumped off the shelf. And I started doing all the exercises. One of the exercises was, who is a dream person that you would want to ask a question to? So I wrote down the name Penny Pierce and I thought, come on, everyone who reads this book writes down Penny's name. You know, thinking like, that's so unrealistic that I would write your name. And how cliche. You know, everyone reading is going to want to talk to you. But I did, and I really felt that that would be a dream if I could ask you a question someday. So then I decided to book Penny for a numerology reading, which, if you have never had one, I highly recommend it. It's almost like doing a personality assessment, but it incorporates both who you are, what your proclivities are, and what themes are coming up for you in your life in general. And so we kind of got to know each other that way. Then I did a second one a year later. Then when I started the Pivot podcast, I had her on the show. We hit it off so well in our first conversation that we decided to turn it into a trilogy and scheduled two more. And in the time since those podcast interviews and now, I even got to write the foreword to Penny's book. And I don't have words for that. Penny, I pretty much fell out of my chair when you asked me. I was just over, like, how I couldn't have dreamt that we would ever get to be friends, let alone write the foreword for your new book. So I just want to say thank you for being you, and I'm humbled and honored and mostly thrilled that I get to bring you back on the show to enlighten all of us in this conversation.

I love our conversations, too, and I love the forward you wrote. It's just beautiful. So thank you so much for that and being in the book with me. That's just great. And yeah, I mean, I don't think we'll even scratch the surface today on all the things we could talk about.

I know.

So much fun.

I know. It really is. Your books have so much depth and richness to them, and so we'll get into transparency. But one of the things you say in the introduction to this is, I never tire of learning how souls grow themselves. Say more about that, I guess from.

Doing so many readings for people over the years.

All so many different kinds of people, and looking down deep into them to see why they do what they do. And often it is kind of on one level, a medication of their wounds that they're doing something, but at the same time that they're trying to heal their pain, they're also evolving themselves. And it's so creative. Everyone is just amazingly creative in their own unique way. And the way they think of to do it actually works out, you know, if you look at things like karma and, you know, how souls evolve over lifetimes, which I do.

To me, that's like a giant design problem, you know, when I was a designer for so many years and just amazing engineering feat. So I never get tired of looking at that stuff.

It really is that there's so much. We're all so dynamic as beings and then, not to mention in our soul families that we're all traveling with together and how dynamic the world itself is. It really is something that's so complex and yet there is somehow an ordered chaos to it when you step back.

Yes, yes. And it's really not chaos at all when you really go deeply into it.

How so?

Well, I feel like we're all in the flow.

And that the flow is kind of the collective consciousness of all beings, maybe even trees and rocks and insects and birds too. But that collective consciousness helps everyone do the next just right thing so that it's evolving us as we go along. And the ideas that come to me are coming from everyone and me, you know, and then what I give out to the world is the next stuff that other people need in their next moment. And it's like this perfect fit of offerings and needs that fits together so well. And it just keeps on going like that.

You know, it's just whenever I contemplate this stuff, I go into really true amazement. You know, like my mouth falls open and go, wow. You know.

That'S the only way I can explain that you and I are here right now is that same amount of amazement that it somehow is in the flow for us to get to know each other and for our books to harmonize. And you and I were even working on our books at similar times. I love what you said about you almost being a conduit, feeling into what the collective consciousness needs. And you say that this book really had its way with you. And I found it very interesting as your friend to watch your process, which is that I'm not sure you even knew exactly what you wanted to say on this subject until you were in it. And I would love to hear more about how you know when it's time to start on a book or a message, but then while simultaneously co creating it or downloading, noting it or understanding it as you go.

I'm not aware consciously in advance too much like when the book Frequency. When I wrote Frequency, which was some years back.

I had titled it something else. I thought I was writing a book about empathy, and the publisher said, that's a little too advanced for most people right now at this time. Could you go back to the drawing board and rework it? And I came up with this new pattern and it just. I was writing words on a pad. What should I call this? And my hand just wrote Frequency. And I thought, oh, I wonder if I could use that word, you know? And so I put it out there. It felt right and it was so timely. You know, it just hit at the right moment and then the next one leap of perception was the next stage. But I didn't know I was going to do that one. And Then I noticed that transparency has been a phrase, or I've had a little section about it in all of my previous books and I had forgotten, just went in one part of my brain and out the other. And then it started to just be present all the time, the idea, the word, the knowledge about what it might be. And I thought it would be a nice short little book. And turns out that it had a different idea of what it wanted to be. And it's quite comprehensive, actually. It turned out to be longer than I think the publisher even wanted it to be. But there's no repetition in it.

So yeah, it kind of, it teaches me, I think as I go along, you just have to stay open and these ideas or explanations start to come in.

And isn't it interesting how it's as if our soul leaves us clues, like there were clues in your previous books and your body of work to transparency, but you hadn't yet pulled it out as its own thing.

Well, and the timing wasn't right. See, now I think transparency is a word that's just everywhere in the news. Can you believe it?

I mean, when you started writing this book, we had not yet had the 2016 presidential election.

That's right.

What on earth.

I know.

So give us a primer. Give us a primer of how you define transparency and why it is more relevant now than ever.

Well, as I started writing it, I thought, well, what do most people think of transparency as? And really it's about freedom of information, free access to information, honesty in the way we communicate and being able to see through things so that there's no hidden variables. And it came to me that this was because we're really right at the end of the information age. And I've been writing all my other books about this transformation and shift that we're going through from the end of the information age into what I've been calling the intuition age, where we're moving from mind to really into the idea of spirit or the imaginal realm or the non physical realms in a much more comprehensive way. And so it makes sense to me that transparency would be understood in a kind of linear way because we're still thinking in a cause and effect methodology. Past, present, future, beginning, middle, end. And so transparency is a horizontal. In the information age, it's in the physical world really. All right, so that's the thing we understand. But what I was getting was that there's vertical transparency as well, where as we become more clear and more intuitive and more open, we start to actually realize that the soul, or the spiritual self, however you want to call that, is actually in the body, it's actually in the personality. It's making us up second by second. And it's not out in heaven somewhere separated from us. It's in the very fabric of every particle and cell and the space between cells. And so that also spirit, or the energetic realm of the unified field is all through matter. It's not separate from matter, it's integrated. The problem is, is that our mind wanders into this linear construct which is the future and the past, and leaves the present moment. And when that happens, you can't access the soul in the body, which is in the now, or spirit and matter, which is in the now. And you can't feel it and know it as a real felt sense.

But what's happening now is we're coming into the present moment, we're coming into our bodies, and we're starting to have this revelation that.

We are the soul. Now that's what I call vertical transparency. Because when we merge and we realize we are the soul, an interesting thing happens which is that the soul has no concept of fear. It doesn't need secrets, it doesn't need to lie, it doesn't need hiding, it doesn't need masks. It's just playful and creative and it doesn't have any shoulds. So the more you become the soul and feel that spiritual reality, the less clutter you need to protect yourself. That's vertical transparency.

I love how you describe that when we remove that clutter, what's left is the transparent diamond like self, and that it is a contagious light. Such beautiful descriptions that when we're opaque, there's a density, a thick, clouded, opaque state as you describe it. And I think all of us listening can remember a time where we felt dense, heavy, clouded, unclear, and not just uncle solid in the moment, but like unclear and weighed down and fearful. Like you're describing it just now, solid.

And like wet blankets laid on top of that kind of energy. And that's why I've kind of broken the book up into talking about the opaque reality and what causes it, and then the transparent reality and how they're different. And you know, so the opaque reality is really.

Caused by fear. Nothing short of fear. And all the mechanisms that we have evolved to sort of protect ourselves from feeling terribly vulnerable, like we might possibly be nothing or be annihilated or be abandoned or whatever our greatest fears are. And, you know, so as we get rid of those fears and all of that, those Belief systems about fear. Like you said, what's left is just the simple us, which is basically clear light and wisdom and sort of an integrated compassion. And compassion becomes the evolutionary force at that point.

You mentioned the concept of vulnerability that some amount of being transparent of. You describe it as developing the ability to see through. So our intuition can skyrocket and be seen, and yet to be seen can feel very vulnerable. Or even to live in the moment, even in your case, to be surrendered to a book where you don't exactly know where it's going is quite vulnerable. How can people. And we hear a lot about mindfulness being present. Oh, stress is just fear of the future or regrets about the past. But it's so much easier said than done sometimes to really be in this transparent, open state. So how have you found that helps you shift into that when you're feeling dense?

Yeah, well, first of all, I think that a lot of the terminology we're using that the phrases that we bandy about are so trite already.

Like meditation, mindfulness, and it's like, oh, boring.

Well, and it's funny because in a sense, the trend worked. You're right. We are in the too much information age. We are leaning more toward mindfulness and spirituality, and yet now we're bombarded by information about those things. Not necessarily a deep knowing from within.

Yeah, it's like too much left brain.

Right.

And so this is partly an answer to your question too, is that.

I think we need to recognize when we're in the left brain and identifying with the left brain too much. And the left brain always has language. So if you're talking or you have the little voice inside your head running around chattering at you or monkey mind, you know, then you're in your left brain. And if you're measuring things or quantifying things or criticizing things or talking negatively to yourself, you're in your left brain as soon as you shift into the brain.

I want to pause real quick. Yeah, say that again. Anytime you're talking negatively, negative, say it right with words. But anytime you're talking negatively to yourself, is that really true? Is it always that if we're, you know. Because I think some little part of our inner critic would have us believe that. No, I'm just trying to be helpful, be realistic.

Right.

We live in the real world. So how do we know that every kind of stressful thought is in fact left brain and not necessarily.

Well, the left brain is not entirely bad. You know, we need it in order to become conscious of things. So you Know, making meanings, for instance, is a left brain function, which is quite helpful. And figuring out how to do things also is very helpful. We need it. But the right brain, which, see, the left brain functions I think, a lot from the past and projects things that we did before that we have in our memory repertoire, and it projects that onto the future, onto the present and future. So there's not a real responsiveness with the left brain, but there is a reactiveness often. And instead, if you come into the center of yourself, into the present moment, drop into your body and stop talking, get quiet, go into silence, you will almost immediately shift into your intuition and the right brain and the body and the heart consciousness and the field consciousness of the energy that's running through everything. And you just need to stay in that and saturate with it for a little while and get quiet and.

Recover yourself kind of at that point. At that point, you're in touch with everything all at once. It's an immersion experience.

And if it weren't for the left brain, you wouldn't be able to know what you were, anything. I've heard it said that the left brain is actually the act of interrupting the right brain focus, you know, focus so that you can actually know what you're knowing. So the left brain is not bad. It's just only when it thinks it's the boss and is starting to run us around that it's not functioning properly because it doesn't know really what it's doing. It has no access to new insight, innovation, or, you know, higher guidance. And so we need to rock back and forth. So getting out of those stress places where you feel stuck or heavy or in the opaque reality has a lot to do with getting quiet, getting centered. I call it stop and drop. You know, get into your body and then be quiet for a while and then allow the next just right thing to start to bubble up from within your own field. You don't attract it from the outside because there is no outside. Everything's already within you. And whatever you need bubbles up and emerges into the moment with you and becomes close up.

And when you need it, it comes and becomes real. And when you don't need it, and this is from the soul's point of view, when you don't need it, it goes back on the shelf. It's like a pantry.

With great thousand millions of ideas. Use them and put them back.

That's such an interesting metaphor. And I remember this was a real mind bender for me when we were having the Frequency and Perception podcast Interviews where you were saying that we're not manifesting something from outside of us, that it's coming up from within. It's just such a. Still stretches me to even conceptualize that.

It is a long standing habit to participate in the linear perception that we all buy into, you know, that creates the reality we know of having goals and achieving them. And, you know, or just a notion.

Of, well, I don't have this thing yet, or I haven't created this project yet, written the book. It can feel outside.

Yeah. Or even then the next step is there's something wrong with me that I don't have it now already. You can get into all these self negations over it all. But when you live in the spherical reality, which is the new reality, then everything's inside a huge ball and you're in the center of the ball and the ball changes shape. I mean, not shape, but scope. It expands and contracts. And that's really your present moment. It's your amount of the unified field that you're paying attention to in each moment. And it can be a little tiny, really physical, dense one, like.

Fixing something that's broken in your house. Or it can be a really huge visionary one, like meditating or getting a vision for your life dream.

Or dreaming at night. We go out at night into these big balls of reality.

Yeah. I love how you describe to stop and drop and drop into your body.

Can you think of a recent example where you were in that more right brain connected, unified state and maybe got your soul took something off the shelf and when you kind of came up, came out of it, you thought, what on earth? You know, like where it just seemed either, I don't know where it just surprised you or you weren't yet sure what to do with it. Because I think that that can happen a lot too when we really tune in.

You mean like getting some kind of an insight that's not ready to be.

Used or where you just thought, oh, well, that's counterintuitive. Like, that's not what my left brain was having me believe.

Mm.

I think I've kind of.

Honed my intuitive sense. Like, for instance, there are a lot of books I still want to write. And when I bring them up to look at them, you know, like pick them up and put them in front of myself and look at it.

I go, oh, not right now. Like, okay, that'll probably be next year, or that'll probably be in two years, or that one will come after this one. Or I'll have a sense of sequencing. Or I'll have a sense that something's missing. It's not time yet, because some insight is missing or some person is missing or maybe I had to write another book before that book could make sense. You know what I mean? It's like there's just that sense of timing and the way things want to seem to materialize. Maybe that's an intuitive sense all on its own to read the materialization process.

I think so, yeah. Sometimes I'll get a not yet. Like I'll know something is. Yes, it's a soul goal. It's something that I think would be joyful to pursue. And still the message might be not yet or wait. And it's like, okay, I don't know why, I don't know what that waiting. It's fine, it's not a problem. But it's like protecting me or showing me something or there's a reason. But that in itself is an action of some kind.

Yeah. Now that is a right brain accessing kind of thing, where you're getting information directly about timing, appropriateness or whatever. But then what happens often is it gets shifted over to the left brain. And that's where we make it personal and say, well, there must be something wrong with this idea, then maybe I shouldn't do it.

Or you negate yourself again. And then that's the left brain's territory because it really doesn't like change.

The right brain and the soul, they're totally in the moment and in the flow. Whatever needs to happen, just shape shift right into it. Have fun, enjoy the surprise, move on. And don't hold yourself into too much definition. I think the more we become transparent, the less defined we are in terms of ego. And you can play with your definitions, certainly, but you don't take them seriously.

Well, I was going to say that's a very interesting juxtaposition then between everyone should have a brand and everyone's CEO of U Ink compared to being transparent and totally fluid. And I know I can speak from experience of 11 years of doing this, that it is interesting to change in front of a community or to try and explain it, or to go with the flow and be free and yet then somehow try and bring people along on that journey. It's this interesting thing we're facing these days.

Well, I think that branding and all that you just mentioned is the left brain way of describing or defining the right brain or fluidity of being appropriate in the moment to what wants to happen. And sometimes I get the idea of something I think I want to do. But the flow itself, which is everybody else also may have something they need. And then that gets put into my mind as though it's my own idea, you know, and those things come to you without planning.

Yeah.

You know, and you have to be open to that because. And I'm thinking for some reason of Joanie Mitchell, you know, how she kind of evolved herself quite naturally from folk singer to watercolor artist to, you know, fabulous painter, and then she moved into jazz and, you know, she just kind of did what she wanted to do. She didn't do the popular thing that everybody expected her to do, and she let herself be an artist all the way.

And yet still remained so authentic that she's highly respected. And I think that's what happens to us. You stay authentic, you stay authentic, you stay open, you stay even vulnerable a little, or even exposed so that other people can see your example of how you are allowing yourself to shift from one thing to another to another. And it doesn't always make logical sense to the left brain the way a marketing professional would cause you to, you know, to design your career. You know, And.

I guess I think as we get more intuitive and open and transparent, that those old definitions are too structured, they're too formal, they're too formulaic. Yeah. They might work for how long? For six months. And then somebody invents another one.

Yeah. Well, what you're describing is very interesting that, in fact, it's almost as if the personal brand itself, again with these labels, they're so subpar to what we really mean. But the brand is going to be a certain amount of authenticity, which also gets overused. But. But that to be authentic, to be transparent, to let people in, to, as you say, to see into and be seen, that's being in the flow of one's own evolution and communicating and inviting people into that. That. That is the brand. Like the brand can be that. And that. That's plenty. And that, you know, in some ways, that is what happens with social media if we're not curating it too much. But everybody is in this constant evolution on their Facebook profile.

That's true.

Who they are, who they're becoming.

That's one of the good things about all that, is that. And that's why people actually today are hungry for personal connection with authors. They want to be friends with their CEOs, they want personal connections a lot, and they don't want the formal roles so much anymore.

I've also seen major leaders talking about their companies having soul. So Howard Schultz of Starbucks, Satya Nadella of Microsoft. Both of these men are very prominently describing the soul of their company and how they nurture it and keep that. And I think that's so interesting in line with everything that you're saying.

Yeah. I mean, some of these words, you know, when I first started doing this work, you couldn't even say the word intuition.

Oh, my goodness. Right. Not to mention soul in a corporate context.

Yeah. To mention, you could say, oh, you can fly by the seat of your pants. You know, things like that maybe like.

Go with your gut. What's your instinct? You're a little more primal.

Right. But to even say the word soul is kind of a new thing, I think, you know, in a common business like setting.

I think it's interesting. Like, you know, Congressman Tim Ryan has written a book on mindfulness and meditation and is working with that in politics, which is fantastic. You know, so some of these things are creeping in. But, you know, this whole concept of transparency, then it takes it kind of to a.

What would I say? It's like a methodology actually, to maybe it is to bring the soul of a company out or to bring.

The core true meaning, the true essence of anything out. And you don't even have to will it to come out. You just have to remove anything that is covering it over. Right. And then. Because it's what we are at heart. And so there is something about, you know, I go into a lot in the book about defining words like honesty and humility and, you know, because we have connotations with some of these things or trust or all this stuff. But to me, humility is an incredible state because it's not about being less than anything. It's about being what you are in the moment, in each moment, a statement of truth about what you know, what you feel like doing and so forth. And if you can be that way, you know, really deep humility, then you are authentic. Then you are honest. You are very real. And if you are doing that, then why wouldn't you want other people to see you? What do you have to hide? What would you have to hide? You know, so then you can be exposed. I don't know. I think you maybe read in my, in my introduction how when I moved from Northern California, where I had lived for 30 something years, to Florida to help my mother who was getting sick, I was like, oh my gosh, what am I doing here? I don't think I'll fit.

And I realized after I started talking to several people, like, what do you do? And I'd get into these long diatribes with them telling me that I didn't believe in Jesus and.

Very fundamentalist and conservative thinking, but heartwarming, open minded. Not open minded, but open hearted people.

I thought, well, okay, this will be okay. I can sort of expand my work up the east coast and into Europe. It'll be easier to get to other places. And a voice in my head immediately said, it's not about expansion, it's about exposure.

And I went, oh no. You know.

It said basically, just let yourself be seen. Don't put up any shields or anything to camouflage yourself. Don't try to hide here, just be open. People who can see you will see you and people who can't see you won't see you.

It'll sort itself out. And so I have had to really focus on what exposure means.

And the vulnerability that comes with that actually goes away when you're being authentic.

Right. Because as you said, you have nothing to hide and you're clear, there's a clarity. You're not trying, you're not faking it and people can accept it or not, but you are in your.

I was just going to say people are so, I want to say telepathic or clairsentient. We feel each other's energy fields now very strongly. And if people are not in alignment with their field or if their ideas and their pictures don't line up or their beliefs and their words don't line up, you get this really funny like mismatched like huh.

That like I don't really know if I could trust that person.

Right?

But if they, their words and their energy and you know, their pictures that they send telepathically all line up, then people relax around you. But if you hold even the slightest bit of distrust of them, then that's what they read in your field and then they distrust you.

So transparency actually is a thing that creates safety, which it seems like it would be the opposite.

Right. And you even say that sometimes as our souls become more transparent that even you are feeling kind of longing for other souls that were this way. But even barring that, that it can start with us. We can lead in this way. We can be the example and be transparent and be honest and humble and exposed in some way.

From a place of strength and openness that will invite others.

Yeah, yeah. Simplicity is a big factor here. It's like you try to be all complicated and impressive to others and it kind of gets in the way. I think.

You can be yourself and have great style if that's what's fun for you. And people can get a sense that you're playing with fashion or whatever it is, and they're not taking it seriously as a precondition for being approved of.

I don't know. It's just the more I got into the subject, the more fascinating it became for its.

Revelatory function. You know, that.

When you let other people see you and be exposed.

And let them see all of you and even your, you know, I said the spinach in your teeth, you know.

Because they've had spinach in their teeth, you know, they forgot to button their shirt all the way or whatever was. And everybody knows that. And it's just human. And if you can laugh at it and just be normal about flaws, then people go, oh, yeah, well, so my flaws aren't so bad either, all right? So I can be more comfortable being myself. Okay? So then what happens is they can see you much more accurately. Then they see themselves much more accurately than you see through their stuff, totally accurately. And all this kind of X ray vision starts happening where not only you can see really what's going on in the various layers of another person, but you can see through situations, you can see through problems. You can understand problem solving so much better. And it does relate into systems. You know, it's a personal thing. And it works for relationships and it works for small groups and for corporations and for nationalities. You know, I think it will spread to more and more collective expressions. But we have to start it like you were saying, ourselves.

I found it really interesting how you describe in the intro, you say in general you felt much less ambitious in the usual sense, but at the same time that you felt more like your true self and that what you need comes effortlessly, therefore you worry far less. So I find that because what you're describing, and as we were talking about companies with soul or this process of being, I think it's so interesting that you went through this phase of feeling less ambitious and probably your left brain asking, is there something wrong with that? And yet the solutions coming even more quickly. Like you said, you can see into problems and situations and relationships. So I'd love to hear a little more about your experience of that old familiar ambition shifting or evolving into something new.

What happens, I think, is that you start to realize that the field around you, and that's in you, of consciousness and energy, or light, if you want to call it that there's no end to you, that you continue out. And that energy, that is the self, goes through everything. And so the field around you becomes like a living being and your best friend. And so somehow, whatever you need next, the flow brings you either the idea of it and you get it on the inside, and then you match that with an event or something in the physical world, or it comes as a physical event or opportunity or person resource, and then you get the idea of why that happened to you and you make a correlation between your inner mental realm and your sort of physical, external realm of events and accomplishments. And so what I find is that the field materializes things for me now.

Which is the coolest experience.

It's like. And then I say, oh, yes, that's right. I wanted to work in Europe more. Oh, they just invited me to come over to do this thing, you know, And I'm still like a little five year old. Like, get amazed at, like, wow, this is happening. Isn't this cool? You know, like, I don't get bored with that or jaded.

And I find I'm much less attached when things don't happen. I think, oh, well, I must not have been meant to go to Europe right now.

Right now.

Cool. It must not have been meant to be.

Missing speaking gig.

Yeah, it just wasn't gonna be something else will come up or. I needed the rest. I've learned to trust when things don't work as well.

Exactly, exactly. Because they are working. Yes, it's still working.

Yeah, yeah. Quote, don't work. It's so true.

The other thing I wanted to read a paragraph here, so. Because one of the things I noticed was that as you become more transparent.

Get words around this, it's like things that we defined in linear perception in the opaque reality and we had an understanding of them totally change as you move into the transparent reality and they take on a whole new, expanded meaning. And that is a really fun thing to look at. And I have a whole section in the end of the book that goes through a whole bunch of these. But part of it is that things become very ironic. And so I have this thing I said, we're entering the time of great ironies.

I wrote that down too. I loved that. I loved that.

What seems restrictive is really freeing. What seems dangerous is really protective. What seems safe is really detrimental. What seems problematic is really the answer. What seems easily spiritual or is really numbing, what seems sacrificial is really an increase. It is the quest for an attainment of personal and collective transparency that reveals the deeper truths. And it brings with it some welcome humor and relief.

And then I also wrote at the beginning of One of the intros here, that this is a book about letting go of everything and receiving everything.

Yes, I loved that.

It's about the irony of having no ego and an amazing personal presence of not being intellectual and being a genius, of not needing to rescue the sufferers of the world and being a powerful force for healing. This is a book about how becoming transparent empowers the good while seeming dangerous. How it lets you be empty and spacious while being full and free while also belonging. So this is a book about making enlightenment normal, which is its own beautiful.

Irony, like, let's make enlightenment normal. It's available to you every day. Not some far away. You have to go to an ashram in India for three months or 30 years, but it's here. I love that you say that and create that possibility for all of us.

You know, part of it is the joy you start encountering when you go into transparency is that everything seems joyful and funny. Like the cosmic joke, you know, or something. I mean, not. I mean, gosh, you know, you look at the terrible things happening in the world, they don't seem funny. Obviously these are happening out of ignorance and pain and they're creating more ignorance and pain. Of course, we don't think suffering is funny, but.

You have to take a little bit longer view. I think when you look at these mass shootings and so forth that have been happening, the destruction from natural disasters.

But it's all part of an opening and a clearing of major old concepts, major old ideas of fear that have to be made visible and conscious in order to be cleared, you know, and it's a difficult process, you know, that some people have to lose their lives over it.

Yeah. It really is such a tumultuous time. And I remember a recent headline in the New York Times. It was just like a natural disaster of every kind, just across the country, across the planet. And there is so much fear and hatred. But I mean, then it's. As you said, it's not to find any. We would never, ever wish that upon anyone. And at the same time, people are. It's creating conversations. At least it's creating conversations for people to choose how they want to show up in the world.

Very true. Yeah.

You also say in the book, this is my turn to read a passage.

To experience transparency. You need to develop radical trust, which means absolutely trusting yourself as a soul, that you, the soul guide. That you, the soul guide the unfolding of your life and fuel the function of your inner perceiver, which helps you notice what you notice for good Reasons I love that idea of radical trust. Not necessarily in every single person we meet, though maybe in some capacity, but that radical trust of our soul. Of our soul, pointing us, our inner perceiver, picking up just what we need to know, when we need to know it.

Yes. And I think I've mentioned radical a couple times in the book, but I like to define it because it really. It doesn't mean exactly the crazy extreme version of something that we think of it as. It's really about getting to the root of something. It comes from the Latin word for root. So that, again, means that we're trying to get to the core, to the truth, to what's most real about something. And so when you look at the idea of radical combined with trust, that would be. Yeah, have trust in your own self, in your own choices, in your own perceptions, in other people's perceptions, in the flow, in the way things unfold into what you have in the moment already and why you have it.

And it's kind of like you could have unconditional trust for any single kind of trust. Right. Like unconditional trust in my own perceptions.

Or you could have it for all things eventually.

Just to know that it's all working for you, not against you.

Yeah.

It's something that.

Relationships, entrepreneurship, I'm sure parenting, even though I'm not yet a parent, but teaches us, which is that a sense of trust in the unknown as well, and trust that for uncertainty or decisions that we haven't yet made, I've developed in large part thanks to you. But a certain trust that I am provided for, there's a flow. I can tap into it. I trust myself to do that. I trust my intuition about when to act on things and when not to. And so when I'm getting fearful or anxious, that that's what helps me come back to my home frequency.

Yeah. And even if you have a loss or. I remember I had a flat tire out in the middle of somewhere, and it was just like, freaking out. And then finally the guy came with the truck, you know, and then we had this wonderful conversation driving back to the. You know, it was like, oh, this was a gift, you know?

So how do you.

How did you process. Because speaking of loss, your mom also passed away while you were working on this book. And I'm sorry for that, that you lost her. And I mean, I know for you she's still with you in some way, but how did you. What did that teach you about these concepts that you were working with and still are?

It reinforced a lot for me, the whole idea that the worlds are not separate, that there's no line between, you know, there's no other side. There's there. You know, I think if I could be more transparent and I would be able to see her and talk to her more right now. I do that by programming a dream or by meditating and going into kind of a little meeting room up above my head where she comes down and I go up and then we sit in there and talk. And it's all in the imaginal realm, but that's where I think we go when we leave the body. We're in the imaginal realm. And so that's the real world then.

But yeah, I think her passing right at that time.

Shocked me open in a particular way.

And it made me more connected.

Shocked me open. That's such a beautiful description of so often what the grief process does that just shocks you, right? Open. Like you can't hold the same defenses up or just opacity, even if it's not conscious, but it just cracks you wide open.

You know, grief is in the opaque world.

Oh, interesting.

I think that really grief is not going to be around when we go into the transformed reality because you won't feel loss, you know, the people will, they're still there.

Okay, what about after a breakup? Would you feel, would there be a grieving or would you just say like this? I find this very interesting, especially in the personal development sphere of there's this concept of spiritual bypassing. When are you jumping too quickly to oh, nothing, I'm not sad at all. It's all meant to be versus what you're describing. How can, can you just tease that out for us a little bit?

Well, if it has any willpower to it like that, then that's left brain again.

Okay. Okay, Right.

I think that if you get quiet, stop and drop, get in, get quiet, expand your reality ball to include many, many more higher frequencies, then you start to realize, first of all, there are all the beings in the physical world inside your ball. And then there are all the non physical beings that have ever been, you know, and every kind, angels and people you've known, people you didn't know, your past lives. Probably, you know, millions and billions of little points of light that are all different frequencies and realities that you can put your attention on. And if you put your attention on it, you can know about it.

So there's nothing lost. And so when you break up with someone, I think you start to understand.

An opaque term, right, like break up. It's very brittle, linear, like a stick going.

Yeah, I know. So it's more that you understand that souls.

Have sort of agreements. They show up in each other's reality based on frequencies. When you match your frequency, souls emerge out of each other's fields and then there we are, like you and I met, you know, and we're sort of on the same vibration and we keep hanging around.

You know, I really love this concept from frequency. Yes.

Yeah. And then there are some relationships that you wanted maybe. I know I had a couple where I just wanted to kind of say hi to the being and hang out for a year or two and enjoy them. And then that was done because we had the rest of our creativity to get onto. And so we broke up. But mainly it was a feeling of moving on.

And I think then we understand that the souls are quite neutral in their.

I don't even know if you wouldn't call it a choice, but their natural rhythms maybe, and the flow, the comings and goings and flowings.

And if you can be co evolutionary with other people, they hang around, you know, them for lifetimes.

That's a great. Yeah, I love that way of looking at it. So as we wrap up today's episode with a tear, I could talk to you all day. No, we're gonna just have to do a follow up. We even talked about that at the beginning, so. So shoot me an email, let me know if you would want that. But we have. There's so much more we can cover. I would love, Penny, if you could just give us one or two transparency experiments that we could all try to put this into practice.

Well, I always really love the diamond light meditation. That's like a core thing I talk about a lot is to imagine that you have a diamond light body standing behind your back that's exactly like you, shaped like you, but no blockages. He or she is just made of pure glossy diamond light, very high frequency, which is the soul's vibration. And then it puts its hands on your shoulders, you tune up to that frequency and then you let that being step inside you and slide in and match up with you part for part. So you get a diamond light brain and your physical brain and diamond light heart and your physical heart and diamond light blood and diamond light bones. And everything has its diamond light counterpart. And you kind of scan through your body and you let this match up. And as it does, the diamond light self has all the core instructions. It knows the optimal functioning of everything and of your own life path and destiny. And you Just sit there and let the light work on you. And pretty soon you realize, wait a minute, I am the diamond light self. Here I am. I'm present. And then I think if we did that a lot, we would have the look of light coming more out of our face, out of our eyes, kind of. Our skin would seem like it was glowing more. Our aura would feel bright to people.

You'd feel uncluttered and younger or sort of, do you know what I mean? Clearer.

Oh, yeah. I was closing my eyes while you were even describing it, and I already felt like a smile on my lips. I just felt like, wow, this is the coolest thing. I had like a digital soundtrack like they'd use in a hacker movie. Like. Like the diamond light was just changing my whole body.

That was really cool. We gotta get you on insight timer so I can meditate. Oh, yeah, yeah, that'd be so cool.

The other thing that I do a lot now, which is really quick, is notice when your left brain is making negative declarative statements. You're like, oh, well, I don't dance, or I don't know how to roller skate, or I don't do this, or I could never do public speaking, Jenny, the way you do public speaking.

That's the left brain keeping us from change. So write some of those down and then turn them around so that you make it into a statement that's not so positive in the Dale Carnegie type sense, but into a phrase that allows energy to flow. Like, I think it would be interesting to try to learn to do public speaking the way Jenny does it. It could be really interesting to work with large groups or to travel around the country and see how the energy would flow. Or I think it would be exciting to do roller skating. Maybe that would give me a sense of something that I'm missing. You know, I don't have to be perfect at it. I just think it would be interesting. And now the energy can flow into a new pathway. But when you say I don't do it or I can't do it, you just cut it off and that contracts you. Right? You can't. Nothing can slow there.

Then that is the most brilliant gem.

Petty fear.

I really. We have to. I want to repeat this because I love what you just said, that you're taking a fear or what seems like a factual statement from your left brain that has stopping the energy flow. And instead of Dale Carnegie ing it, instead of just saying, I am Tony Robbins. Yeah, I am the best keynote speaker in the world, which I think we have A misperception that that's how we need to reframe things. What you're saying is reframe it in a way that helps the energy flow. So again, coming back to something with some authenticity in it.

Yeah. Don't get too big and ambitious. Like have it be about curiosity.

Yeah.

Instead of the willpower early stages. Exactly. I think my body might enjoy that kind of energy.

Right. Or wouldn't it be interesting to try or. Well, it certainly would be an adventure.

Then if you imagine even further that I am roller skating and, oh, it feels really great. I thought it would. This is really great. And now look at how I feel in my life. I have the old me that didn't ever contemplate roller skating. It couldn't be possibly be part of my reality. And now suddenly I have all this freedom to flow and I know how to make turns and skate on one leg or whatever. And now you're open to even more things.

I love it. I love it. And I think we can also look at ways in the past where we've shifted. I know. I mean, I'm sure we've all had that experience where you do the thing you think you could never do or you become a person that you thought, wow, didn't see that coming. Penny, this is just so wonderful. Thank you. Thank you for being and shining your diamond light in the world and being such a great mentor and friend to me and so many others. Those of you listening, if you don't already have it, grab a copy of Transparency seeing through to our expanded human capacity. Penny, you're amazing. Thank you.

Thank you, Jenny.

Thank you for being here.

Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the Pivot podcast. Make sure you don't miss an episode or my insider tips and templates by signing up for Pivot List, a curated twice monthly newsletter where I share the inside scoop on what I'm reading, watching, listening to, and the latest tools I'm geeking out on. Sign up@pivotmethod.com pivotlist get show notes from this episode@pivotmethod.com podcast and connect with me on Twitter @jennyblake.

Remember, build first, then your courage will follow. Hasn't it always.