87: Penney Interviews Jenny—We Are Souls: On Past Lives, Alignment Practices, Conscious Creation and Non-Icky Marketing and Manifestation

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What's next? This is a question we're all having to ask and answer more frequently. I'm Jenny Blake, your host of the Pivot podcast and author of Pivot. The only move that matters is your next one.

For show notes from this episode, visit pivotmethod.com podcast. If change is the only constant, then let's get better at it. Here we go.

Hello everybody. Welcome back to another very special episode of the Penny and Jenny Show. This is a really fun ongoing series that has kind of created itself that every time Penny Pierce and I hang up from recording a podcast interview, we think that that was so fun and there's so much more to talk about. We should do it again. This time, however, the tables are turning and Penny is going to interview me. So before I turn the mic over, just do yourself a favor and look up Penny's name on Amazon. P E N N E Y P E I R C E Penny Pierce. She has so many amazing books that have truly changed my life and my way of being in the world. Her latest is Transparency and other favorites include the Intuitive Way, Frequency Leap of Perception, and even books on dreaming and 24 hour consciousness. We also have Pivot podcast episodes on all of the above. So I welcome you into the Penny and Jenny rabbit hole. And with that, Penny, welcome to hosting the show today.

It is my great pleasure.

So fun.

Well, you know, Jenny and I, we have really been connected for a couple of years now. First as kind of clients and then we started talking more and more and just had so much in common. And then, gosh, you wrote the foreword for my book Transparency, which just was fantastic and I appreciate that so much. So much.

Thank you for letting me do that. It's like a dream I would have never dared to dream came true. So thank you. I'm so honored. And by the way, you're on the hook to write the foreword for my next book.

Okay.

Just haven't asked you yet.

Love it. Well, you know, when I know things about your career and all of that, but there are my kind of questions which go into the Kind of bridge between the non physical realm and the physical realm that I always want to know about people, like how did you get to be who you are and what kind of things? You know. So that's what I want to start asking you about is.

Sort of the kind of things that you might have been doing as a little kid that were, you know, those things that carry over that you never stop doing, you know, like I was just thinking the other day how I used to spend hours like blinking my left eye and right eye to see my nose change positions when I was like four or whatever. But then I thought, well, maybe that has something to do with why I got got into perception, you know, studying perception. So are there things like that that you had as a kid that have carried over?

I would say. By the way, I love that we are diving into the kind of non career realm intersection of physical and non physical realms. And I just have to say it's a little nerve wracking because this is the stuff that I don't outwardly share or talk about. So I'm excited. It's always a good feeling. I've decided with the podcast, the more awkward I feel interviewing someone or even the more awkward I am, it must have been the right guest or the right topic. So I'm glad that we're doing this.

Yeah, well, it all goes toward transparency, doesn't it?

Yeah. And like the awkwardness is a sign of excitement and caring and dropping perfection, which you talk about in transparency.

Yeah, yeah. And I just think it's so cool how really we are souls. Right. We don't have a soul. So, you know, you were you when you were a little kid and you. I think we come in a lot with our mission or our purpose and we start into the things we're interested in very early on.

And that's definitely true for me. I think my grandma had some kind of intuition because when I was born and my parents named me Jennifer Blake, when I was born, she said, wow, that sounds like an author's name. So that's interesting. And my whole life, all through schooling and especially high school, everyone always called me Jenny Blake. Like it was never separating my first or my last name. So even there, there was always something with my name about it being easy to say or something. And for me, I think themes as a kid, I was very sensitive, I was very introspective. I loved reading. I devoured my books like it was my job. I was a little busy body. I was always running around. Partly it was like my child Care was running around from ballet to gymnastics to acrobatics to piano. So I was always, like, ever the little multitasker. And I was always creating things. I really. And teaching. I. I both was always creating little ventures. Like, I remember when I was maybe 8, I would set up a video camera in my room and do a fake, like, news broadcast.

And I would certainly teach my brother, since he was. When he was born, my mom said that. I said, like, something like, he just was mine. Like, he became my baby. Like, it was. He was in my care now, and I was always teaching him. I wanted him to be ahead in school because if I had learned something, well, maybe I could give him the advantage and I could teach him and he'd be ahead and he could, like, get things faster. And that is something that do now. It's like when I learned things I wanted.

That's a core motive.

Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, that's funny. And. And the. Did you do art and stuff like that, or did you. Was it more the experiential kinds of things?

My dad is a painter, and he has been since he was 5 years old. And so he would take me into his studio and we would throw paint around a canvas. And I think in an ideal world, I would have taken up more of the visual arts. And I did some ceramics as a kid. But really, the way I translated, it was like I set up a library in my bedroom, and I organized all my books on two shelves and I made a sheet protector ledger of all the options that people could rent and check out. Like, that was my art. It was. Even then, it was not so much the visual arts, although I always had fun with my dad doing that. But it was like organizing, categorizing.

And serving somehow. Always.

Well, your library now looks that way. Yeah, it's got all colored books together.

Yeah. Like, books have never left me, and I just never quite knew how to make a career out of them. But now that I am an author, one of my favorite byproducts of it is that I get to meet my heroes all the time, like you. So it's kind of like one of the secret reasons that I'm an author. In addition to wanting to help teach what I've learned the hard way and making it easier for people is like, I feel so lucky that I get to meet and even be friends with other authors like you.

When you were little, did you feel that same.

Recognition, I would say, about who were the experts or who you wanted to learn from or something like that, or who you Respected.

I guess I just. I was always trying things. I started writing books when I was younger. Writing a children's book and then a novel, I think I. But. And even. Even when I. Again, like, part of my childcare was I'd go to my mom's office. She worked in a landscape architecture firm. And maybe when I was nine, I mean, young. And they would just write a prompt on their Apple IIC computer. I just remember a blinking green cursor like, aliens have descended upon the Earth. And to keep me busy, I would just sit and they. I would respond to the prompt. That was like how they.

Wow.

Occupied.

Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Wow, that's amazing.

Yeah, I don't feel like a writer today. I. I write to convey ideas, but I just. Yesterday, for the first time in a very long time, I sat at my computer and I said, I'm going to do a free write. And it just doesn't spark as much joy for me as this. Even you and I having a conversation.

Well, it seems like when you were young, a lot of it really was experiential. You know, like it was like in action, motion. Not quite as introverted and quiet as writing forces you to be, you know, so I can see how that's evolved. You haven't lost it at all, but you've translated into, you know, more live, you know, experiential things.

Yeah, and I think more about communication. I also, when I was 10, I started a family newspaper and I produced it monthly. It was called the Monthly Dig up. And it would have feature articles, new technology that was coming out, birthdays, whatever the extended family needed to know. And I did this for 12 years and people subscribed and I had production in my living room and I was very stressed out trying to meet my deadlines. Like.

These lessons started so early, so even that was a. About translating and conveying and communicating information. It wasn't like I wrote just to please myself in a sense.

Do you feel like you had a philosophy that you brought in with you into this life that you can kind of now see is actually your own thing that you didn't get from other people?

Wow, that's a great question.

I mean, I'm sure it ties in with the activities you did, but, you know, at a certain point it does formulate in your mind and you develop a kind of worldview, but, you know, it comes out of your own core.

If, if anything, I. I think what.

What happened for me when I was younger was because I was very sensitive.

I was shy and I And I took things personally. So I don't know if it was a belief that I came in with, but it was almost like I came in with a cloud. I think one of my lessons in this lifetime is working on insecurity. And in some areas of my life, I feel very secure and empowered and totally trust myself and all's well, but in others, really insecure. So it's almost like books have been my teachers, and they have allowed me to.

Learn or shed light on things that I was struggling with and taking personally. And I was always. I think I have a propensity to take my problems personally, like, oh, and maybe we all do. I don't know. But where. Oh, there's some deep flaw that I have and books have shown me. Oh, no, other people have this and they've solved it and. And they've taught me and they've healed me in that way. And I just. I have no shame about reading like 500 books to get to.

The point that I am. Some people say, oh, that's not living, or that's not how you can't learn from a book. But I do. I do and I can.

Yeah, I get that. And I kind of feel like.

You know, that cloud of insecurity.

Almost like that's why you had to do the experiential things, you know, was to feel yourself, you know, in motion. Do you know what I mean? It's not bring it into your left brain and write about it, but actually let it flow through you without.

You know, defining it too much in the early seasons. And so it feels like, you know, you're really developing this sense of.

Fairness that helping everybody, like you did with your brother, you know, like, if I help him do this, it'll be easier for him. And some of those motives are very probably close to your philosophy.

Like that I definitely have a philosophy of.

Learning it for myself is half of the experience. And then teaching and translating it completes. That's the other half. That it's one thing to learn and integrate, and that's necessary. And then my satisfaction is only complete once I've somehow taught and translated it.

Yeah, that has something to do. It's like for me too. Same thing. It's like. But it's about sharing and not so much being smarter or anything than anybody else, but sharing and having us kind of a communion experience with people, you know, and that's, you know, it's just. I think a lot of our main motive is so that we can.

Connect intimately with people, honestly, you know, to know Others as ourselves.

I think so. And I think another motive, just like you said for me, just feeling helpful, feeling like my unique interests can contribute somehow to other people. And I love. That's why we connect, Penny, because we were talking before we hit record. I said, I'm reading everything about past lives right now, all the Brian Weiss books. The first one is Many Lives, Many Masters, for anyone listening who wants to go down this path. But you said, and I said, oh, you should write about it. And you said you'd been thinking, but you'd want to make it practical. And I just love that you said that. And some people would think, come on, how can you make past lives practical?

Yeah.

You've written about all kinds of things. Transparency, frequency, dreams, and made them eminently practical for people to bring these sometimes very abstract or even intimidating ideas and make them accessible.

Yeah. And I think the, what you're doing and exploring all this is like just the same as I have done, is that you wanted to look at a lot of the non physical phenomenon phenomena and see how it felt, see if it was real, see if I could relate to it. And then, you know, how it fits into the life today. You know, how do these things make us more of who we are? And you know so well, have you had any feeling about having had past lives or are you exploring that at all?

Well, I just did. Let me say I rejected this book for many years. People would hear what I was reading and say, oh, well, have you read Many Lives, Many Masters? And I'd say, ugh, no, I don't know about all that. And I just kind of left it there. Like I wasn't, I wasn't even open to like exploring this. And I can rewind farther to say, as early as fourth grade, I stopped saying under God in the pledge of Allegiance because I didn't know what I believed and I didn't want anyone to tell me what to believe. And I'm sure that connects into a past life somehow, but it's it. And I've since come back to my beliefs on spirituality and I guess to connect first to what you were saying. For me it's. I realized my 3D world, my not relying on anything spiritual. This is separate from even the idea of religion. But like wasn't complete for me. My life was very hard. I was worried all the time. I was anxious, I was insecure, I wasn't trusting of myself or life. I was pushing the river. I was stressed, I was burnt out. And so starting 2012 is when I started meditating and that led me into your work and Tosha Silver's on outrageous openness and surrender. And so now here we are five years later, and I can see how enriched my whole life and way of being is by being open to things bigger than myself. And so, yes, to answer your question on past lives, I just did my first guided meditation on it today. I've read three of his books in the last week and I did a guided meditation today. And even Brian Weiss will say in the books, some people will say, oh, this is just your imagination or it's fantasy. Either way, whether it was really your past life or not, they're tremendously healing and interesting and helpful to see what comes up.

Well, let me say, just interject there that I think imagination is the real world, you know, and that what you get, whatever you got in that meditation is data that you don't know whether it was literal or not, but you know you got it for it's like something in you presented you with that particular thing which then becomes something you needed to know that you're showing yourself. So, you know, why do you. I always look at this, like, why do I notice what I notice? You know, there's. What am I trying to develop in myself or grow in myself? So what did you get?

Well, and that's why I love your book Dreams and the subtitles, A Guide to 24 Hour Consciousness. I'm so glad you reminded us of this, that whether it's a dream, an imagination or waking life, past life, ideas, it's all data. I love, I love that you just said that. So, yeah, what came up for me, he gave options for different time periods and he said, imagine you're watching a movie of yourselves at these different times. Choose the one that has the most resonance for you. So the one I chose was 25 AD and I was a man in a kind of open, ventilated. I was like a room but with stones picturing like the one of the alchemists in the show Game of Thrones. Like it's their stone around. He's working, it's his little shop. And his job was to be the reader for the community, that he would read books and no one else could read. And so he would read books or letters. Sometimes he had them, let's say he had some religious text. People could come in and hear what he would read, but he wasn't a religious figure. Or they'd bring in a letter or piece of paper and he would read it for them. And that was so interesting because his job was simply to read. And I've always in this life wished like, hey man, how do I make a job where my job is reading books? And even this podcast, I feel like delightfully guilty. But not when I'm reading for four hours in the middle of the day to prepare for an interview. It's like, hehehe. You know, I worked at the system and I figured out how to read even though the book.

But you know, doing being the reader was you got to read and speak and translate. Exactly, yeah, translate.

And it's like what I do now because my books involve me reading hundreds of books and then I sort of distill or translate what I've read for the many. And that was really gratifying. And then I'll say the other part of this book vision that came was that he, his wife died young and he was very sad and he hadn't let go of the grief from that and he felt lonely. And that really relates and is relevant information for my life because for much of my life I felt very lonely and like I couldn't understand relationships and I felt very sad. And I had a lot of unrequited love experiences in this life where I'm like, why? Why is this area so hard for me? And I don't, you know, this was just this morning that I had the vision. But I do think that there's something connected there of relationships for me up until now. Now I'm in a wonderful relationship. Up until now. I really had to heal the part of me that was just so deeply sad.

Well, that's my experience of the way the past incarnations feed into the present one. It's almost like they aren't even in the past, they're just in your present moment. Right. You know, feeding in with things that are slightly incomplete that you still want to explore more or balance in yourself. And I guess you would call that karma, but it's not like negative. It's just you, the soul, are deciding that you'd like to make sure you understand this thing fully, you know, from the soul's point of view and not from the left brain's point of view. And I find a lot like I, in one of my last lives I died of tuberculosis. And in this life I came in with really bad lung problems, had pneumonia when I was two and every year and you know, so I think a lot of those things.

When you do finally die in a lifetime, a lot of those patterns are stuck or get stored in your energy body. And then when you come back in again, that energy body is part of what you're forming your new self with, except that you now have a whole bunch of new energy, new family energy. It's all kinds of things. And so it gets integrated more easily. It totally makes sense to me.

Yeah. And that's actually the thing that opened me up to past lives at all, was that I started to get the intuitive sense that my deep difficulty in the area of relationships up until now, I'm 34 now, was bigger than me because there was nothing in my childhood that I could point to that wasn't beyond the normal day to day workings of families. My parents did get divorced when I was five. But like I just. When I would look at these instances, it was nothing so deep as the healing and the learning that I've had to go through. Like, I also think I was a nun in a past life. So I think in this one I had the feeling for a long time that I'm starting from scratch, that somehow other people have an easier time or have things figured out that I don't and.

But not in my career. You know, my career. One thing that came to me in the last few days kind of relates to what you're saying is that our soul, for some, I don't know if I'm pulling this out of the collective consciousness or it's my own thinking, but we have lesson, lesson and expression. So that these two things. So there's probably a primary soul lesson or two and that can relate to karma or not, and a primary expression. So in the example of the man that I was in 25 AD, his expression was to read books and translate them and speak them. And his lesson was around relationships and healing, that part. And I think that that mirrors very well what my journey has been. And.

Just having this picture is fascinating to me. Like again, whether that was my life or not, but I actually am now really believing it more.

It sheds light on the picture of what I've got on my plate now. And so it's just, it is helpful.

Yeah. And I think too that even the expression like for instance, being the reader is also the lesson because in previous times you may well have, you know, been persecuted for speaking out or for not being able to communicate or make that connection with other people, you know, and so then the, the fortunate benefit of the next incarnation is that you get to have a ton of protection around yourself for expressing.

And that I can relate into that as well, which is I have an insecurity. And when I wrote the first draft of Pivot my editor said this reads like a book report. You're just sharing everyone else's ideas. Where are you? You're an expert too. And even that kind of relates as a lesson, which is that my maybe a lesson in this lifetime is to speak up, have express my ideas, own my, my unique ideas and not feel that I'm only valid if I'm translating other people's.

Yeah, well, that kind of makes me want to ask you more about sort of how you do work with the non physical realms because you know, you're really super busy, you know, and in order to be successful in this 3D world, you really do have to be centered and you have to maintain your connection, I think to the non physical world where your soul self, you know, your identity as soul is just sitting there, you know, waiting for you to open up the portal so that you can come through. And it's so easy to be distracted, right? You know, by all the things, the to do lists and everything. So how do you do it right now in your life, you know, to maintain your alignment?

Well, one thing you really taught me through your books and our friendship is I think it's in frequency. There's this triangle Be, do and what's the last one?

Have. Yeah, be, do have.

But there's one that's like almost releasing. So I find when I'm in the B phase and I'm very open and very spiritual and I can meditate for hours, I'm receiving so much and at those times I'm not as like grounded or I'm not as busy or I've cleared my schedule or I'm traveling somewhere else. And then sometimes I'll shift into doing mode where my work is. I can tell it's like boots on the ground. Like I more restless in meditation, I'm more functional and practical and the job is just, okay, you got all these downloads, now go put them into practice.

Or, but while you're doing that, do you, can you be be while you're doing?

Yes, but I just, I mean maintain.

Mindfulness during the process of action.

Definitely. But it's helped me to not be hard on myself when either one is taking precedence somehow. Like sometimes when I'm in the super downloady spiritual place, I get hard on myself. Oh, you're not getting anything done. And then if I'm in the really practical place, I'm like, man, did I lose my connection to spirit, to the, to my guides, you know, like you asked. So no matter what, the day has to start for me with Reading usually spiritual texts that like many lives, like your work, Penny, so they don't have to. It's not, it could be anything that I feel has a high vibration that really talks to my spirit, to my soul of like how I want to be. So it's almost like instead of me reading one Bible, I have books that fit on a very spiritual frequency for me that I pull down in the mornings.

And then meditation is crucial and.

That, that keeps me grounded kind of no matter which state I'm in. And it's, it's now it's a given. I'm on like a 750 day streak. Maybe I missed once or twice in there, but.

That'S critical. And then during meditation and then after I meditate, I actually started a practice that I'm excited to share more about. And I was inspired partly by your direct writing in the, at the end of the chapters of your books, the practice I call Soul Letters to Self. And so after I meditate, I journal and or write a letter to myself from the perspective of my soul. And that's been really, really interesting and helps me channel my highest wisdom or the wisdom of all the masters that I've been reading. And then sometimes I'm accessing intuition. Like right now, I'm not talking to guides or a council. A few years ago, and when I was in the middle of your books, I would, I would just picture them around me or at a table or. And they would just all talk to me. I had a total counsel. And right now it's not that way. But I still have an intuitive voice where I feel messages get imprinted into my mind. It's not auditory, but it's an imprint. And so I'll ask questions or kind of look for guidance, even if it's how I'm going to spend my day or what to write or how to make a decision. And I'm always tuning in for that voice, even when I'm not in meditation. So that helps me stay grounded. And then of course, yoga. Yoga and Pilates exercise.

Yeah, very interesting.

Some of the intuitive how you get your intuition, I think is interesting. I have a whole list of things I hand out in one of my workshops about how do you know certain things and so for you, like, I don't know if you can get this into words, but how do you know when something is true and just right for you or when it's not true or not ready yet or actually even dangerous? How do you know those things?

Well, I didn't read your book Intuitive Way. For almost a year, it sat on my shelf because I was afraid of it. Because every time I had had intuition, it was terrifying. It was like something was going very wrong and I needed to listen. And maybe that was more my gut instinct. And you taught me through your work that that's when we're not practiced with our intuition. Sometimes the messages that are the loudest are when something is wrong or something's really not good. So I'd had those, but then it became more subtle as I tuned in more, more frequently.

What I'm.

Do you. Do you feel it in your body? Do you feel it somewhere or a certain kind of.

I feel it, definitely feel it. I have very visceral reactions to things. I can tell if a person creeps me out. It's like I know it immediately. Um, I can read people's faces, face, micro expressions, probably to my detriment. It used to really stress me out. I felt responsible for everybody's feelings and to make sure they were happy. And I could just notice the second that it turned. Um, so.

Well, for instance, like, how would you know if. If someone's reliable.

Yeah, good.

I mean, in your body. Yeah, yeah. How do you know that?

It's just.

I don't know, it's like. It's just a clear feeling of trust. I think for me, even when I did the past life meditation this morning, I thought, is there something wrong? It's not coming to me like a movie. Like, it's not as vivid as how he's describing. Some of his patients have, like, I'm not seeing anything, but I hear the imprint. So in the case you're describing if someone's reliable or not, I just feel like. I don't know, I guess I just feel an imprint. It's hard to explain.

This is why I know that is. And it's real interesting, like you said, to try to unpack some of these because there are very subtle kind of inner postures or.

Like, you know, like, what does trust actually feel like in the body?

Right.

You know, when. When you. You have like a deep relaxation or energy starts to flow in a particular way, or you. When you feel something is just right instead of being right or wrong. These are real fine, level distinctions.

Like, here's another one. Like, when do you know that it's time to take action? Or when do you know when to wait?

Well, when you were talking about trust, it reminded me. It's almost like taste. The second you put a food in your mouth, you have a reaction like, it tastes good. Or it doesn't, even if you can't describe how your taste buds work on a scientific level. So I do feel that I get. But sometimes, and I just did this today of should I attend this conference in July? Sometimes I will stand up, close my eyes and do the exercise where I say, is it the highest good for me to attend this conference? And if I lean back, it's a no. And if my body naturally leans forward, it's a yes. So sometimes I'm using a tool that, like, overt, I guess, just to say, what is it really? And I just feel my body either recoil and lean back. And sometimes it's not obvious. Like, the thing I'm trying to practice now is I have a lot of shoulds. I'm really trying to discern these very subtle shoulds. I call them sexy shoulds, where it's dinner that a friend is hosting.

Why is there this little iota of resistance? What does it, you know? And so often, even in recent years, I would like bulldoze that little tiny feeling and say, well, duh, a friend's hosting it. You gotta go, yeah. And I'm trying not to do that now, but it's so subtle and those shoulds are so sexy.

And yet you're giving yourself some of that intuitive data. Yeah, Something that, like, you can, like, feel into and merge into and then suddenly understand something. Sometimes it's that you can't make a decision because you don't have all the information yet. It's not about it's right or wrong. It's just that the timing's off or something and you start to learn those subtle sensations that you can identify, you know, about why.

And I've also learned that I might not know why my intuition gave something a no or a pass until after that date has occurred. So it might be that, wow, that night that it was scheduled, even if it's two weeks away. Oh my God, I'm so glad I stayed home. Like, it was a crazy day. And so I've also learned not to try and question the logic too much when I really listen to it and just trust that, well, I don't know what's going to come up. Maybe that day I'm going to get invited to something that could.

Things like that.

That my calendar is clear.

Yeah.

How do you know? How do you tell in your body if someone's trustworthy or not or if you should say yes to something or not?

I almost always get it more as a tactile, tangible kind of thing where I contract Somewhere Depends. Sometimes it's throat, sometimes it's my chest or gut or lower back even. I mean, different places where I just don't feel comfortable. I feel strained. And if it's really reliable, there's just a sense of almost like joy, you know, like a feeling of release and childlike.

You know, like I remember as a child, I would just say, oh, want to come over for lunch? You know? You know, like, no, figuring it out just right there. Let's do the next thing. And that comes in, you know, But a lot of it is I don't hear like you do. I get a very, you know, body oriented expansions and contractions. But I do feel like what you said, imprint. I feel impressions. Like something presses on me and makes like a tempur Pedic mattress, you know, it's a dent in it and then that is data. And eventually it will go back to its normal shape, you know, But I have the opportunity right there in that moment to discern or translate that energy, information that came through as pressure maybe into an insight. And so that's a skill, you know, that I think we gloss over a lot of times, these very subtle.

Kind of physical impression abilities that we have, whichever sense we think is dominant for us, you know, we have our favorite senses.

And learn to interpret those things.

You know, like, here's another one. How do you know how long something will take?

That's a good question.

I don't know, but I mean, we need to.

But we estimate these things all the time, right?

Oh, right, right.

Like how long it's going to take to get to an appointment, how long you should prepare before your podcast.

You have senses of these things.

That's true. And from past data, when you were talking about the childlike invitation, an example, something I'm practicing with the podcast. I was so excited to get on this call with you today. And I think to myself, why shouldn't I be that excited about every podcast guest? Like, why would I interview someone if I'm not so excited? And in the past, of course, I've been doing this now, slow start, but almost four years. And sometimes there were people where I was like, great, can't wait. Oh my goodness. And then other times it was like, this would be good. But I'm trying to pay attention because whether anyone listening has a podcast or not, I do think it relates to the projects that you choose, the lunches, the coffees you schedule. Like, I guess it's giving permission to not feel obligated if it's not. And this Is the Derek Sivers. It's just not a. Hell, yes. But if it's not that childlike enthusiasm, just like, can't wait. Why?

Why?

Why do it otherwise?

Right?

But I think in the past I would have said, oh, well, because it's, you know, it's a good thing. It's a good idea. Or this is a good person, like, not a good person of who they are. Just the topic for the show.

Mm. Yeah. So I guess that I have been curious about how you choose who you want to talk to on your show. Is it sometimes, you know, just kind of a logical thing, or other times serendipity? Or is it changing?

But it is changing. Quote A great question, because the show is called Pivot. And originally. Oh, man, I really regret.

In the beginning in the description, it said, like, I interview experts and peak performers. And then I got so sick of seeing the word peak performers all over the podcast, dosephere and the Internet. And I just thought, what is that? Like, peak performer? It just sounds so annoying to me now. Like, what even is that? And what does that mean? And why are we, like, glorifying peak performance so much? And I just really, like, passed that phase of needing it to be only an expert or a peak performer. Then I realized, wow, I really love authors. So then there was a phase where it wasn't so much searching for, like, anybody who had a Pivot story, but it was more authors and people who had curated often counterintuitive advice or things that I felt were missing from the conversation about career and business and change. So maybe Kelly McGonagall, the upside of stress, the paradox of choice. You know, I love exploring paradox upsides of things we think are bad, how to reframe our opinions. And then now my two requirements are that the person be soulful. When I look at their work and their business, I want to feel their soul. Like, I want to feel resonant on that level, and I want to be so excited to talk to them. And lately, and I think it does follow a trend of what I'm interested in, but lately I've even been exploring faith or spirituality in the role of career and business.

Because I guess I'm interested in taking the conversation beyond practical nuts and bolts and into some of the things that I think are more complicated to talk about.

I love that progression, actually.

Because I think this time that we're in right now really is this. You know, I was calling it vertical transparency, but to me, it's the time where we integrate the spiritual or the non Physical realms with the physical. In other words, we realize they've always been integrated, but we've had our consciousness in our left brain that was separating us out from everything, and now we're realizing that we're connected and then. So that that sense of how the non physical realm affects the physical is to me, a really fascinating kind of leading edge thing right now where people have thought that the non physical realm was just silly or imaginative or they discounted it, but now it's like it's really the key thing.

Right.

You know, you create that inner blueprint the way you want it, keep your attention on it, and it starts materializing almost immediately these days.

And those things are so, I don't know, it's so fascinating partly because they're so quick and easy and effortless and frictionless and fun.

Yeah. And like, I also feel I crave.

Listening to meaningful conversation and music. So my two favorite artists, I love Eddie Vedder, but Nako and Medicine for the People and Trevor hall, who have already been on the show, and they, their music is so uplifting and it's at a frequency that is so uplifting. And I think with everything going on, not just in the media, not just politically, but even social media, it's like we're so inundated by stimuli and what are we feeding ourselves? And so like, I love, I crave podcasts like Oprah's Super Soul Sunday. I know I can rely on it to have people speaking calmly about things are really important to them, lessons learned on a spiritual level, things that are going to really enhance the quality of my being and of my day. And that's what I feel is people, if I'm craving it, other people must be craving it as well, because there is so much junk food on the Internet now, information wise, which is something you talk about too, right?

Well, that's, you know, a part of this is, you know, that discrimination of what's authentic, you know, and, and, and part of it to me says too, that you're aware of how you're evolving or eclipsing beyond the previous reality ball. You know, like it just kind of the sphere keeps expanding and including more, and then your whole philosophy and your consciousness changes to match that, and then that grows, you know, and you got to let that happen. I just wonder how this fits in with your kind of your intuitive vision. If you have a sense of this yet, about how the world in a way will evolve over the next, let's say five years or so. Do you have a sense of where things are going and maybe tie that in a little bit with your own work or process.

Yeah, well, sometimes I feel that I'm not a futurist. Like, I actually feel that I'll go through something just before other people need it, in a sense, at least the people maybe in my community.

As in I'm not super cutting edge or anything, but I'll like, struggle with something a little early, earlier and then share it. So I guess. So I don't feel super well equipped to speak to where things are headed other than sometimes people will say to me like, the world is ending, it's all going to shit. And I can just say that I don't feel that way. I kind of resonate with Kevin Kelly. He describes in the inevitable that technology is advancing at such a rate and humanity, where we kind of go two steps forward, one step back, or 100 steps forward, 98 back or something where, yes, progress is happening. It is the positives of that innovation are outweighing the negatives. But there's a lot of negative, and no one can deny that I even right after this election, the last election, like, I don't spend a lot of time like, ranting because it's just not the energy that I want in my day and in my being. So I'm not the most, like, politically active person because I feel that my contribution is just be positive and uplifting. I'm not trying to be Pollyanna. I just truly, like, that's how I do feel that I'm contributing. I can still bring hope and enthusiasm and help people on an individual level to feel empowered and free to do whatever they want with that extra energy, even if it is then to go be politically engaged. So when I look ahead to five years, I think, of course, and hope super terrible things don't happen like nuclear war or anything. But I do trust, I do have a sense of faith that this is working out some big.

These, these tumultuous times are necessary for healing. And just the way that in our individual lives, when we go through something that feels horrible, we usually do emerge wiser on the other side or more equipped somehow. And so I can see that happening for us all.

But it's definitely concerning if you break it down one by one, like how we treat animals, how we treat the environment, how we treat people. It's like, it's tough.

Yeah, I know. It's a period where I think all the stuff that was stored in the subconscious mind is coming up now, you know, and we're having to kind of wade through it, but not get sucked into it and stay in our own clear vision.

And not be in resistance, but also not be passive either. So it's a fine line, you know, about speaking truth to power or whatever it is. But I liked what you said about that you go through things just before others do. Because I think I sort of do that too. And we maybe time this because if you're too far ahead of others, they don't get what you're talking about.

Yeah.

If you're right there on the edge of what's arising, people sense it, almost like you said, viscerally. And then it's like their little antenna go off, you know, go woo. Do. This is interesting, you know. Yeah, I think that's important way to go about it.

I had to give myself. I had to like I used to think, man, I had to see, I had to want, trust myself. Hey, if you're going through something, maybe other people are too. That took a little while. And then also I used to think, man, I'm. I'm so like not ahead of the trend or like I used to beat myself up for not being farther ahead until I realized it's okay. Like exactly where, where I am is helpful. And then just one more thing on the question of five years from now and what are, what's. I feel it is my responsibility. And this is very. Relates into a lot of the Buddhist studies I've done. But right speech, right action, right livelihood, right thinking. Like I. It is my role to try to be, to heal myself, to be kind, to be loving, to remove fear, to remove judgment, to do the best that I can. Like these are the things that I obsess about on a daily basis. And I look for where I'm blocked and I look for where I veer from these things. And that's my method, that's my way of.

Healing on a larger scale is like I can only start with myself. And it, by the way, it starts at a tiny basis. Whether it does, it's not. I don't every mundane. Yeah. But if it's like I won't cancel a plan with a friend by saying, sorry, I'm not feeling well if that's not true. I really try to speak the truth on every level, as much as I can.

Yeah. And that's so key for transparency, you know. But I call that in my book skillful perception. And that's a Buddhist thing as well, is that, you know, in a way you don't add any more suffering to the world. You heal what you have in yourself. But then you act in a way where you don't add anything more into the world.

And I think there's a great power in being a clear space in the field.

Where you're not stirring things up and creating more negativity, but you're allowing things to just calm down wherever you are. And then getting people back into sort of the right focus of attention, right?

Yeah. They keep their mind on the right things.

Yeah. And then some people are gonna feel the intuitive urge to go protest or to go rally or to go raise money, like, super actively. Like some people will be called to that. And I just so far haven't my calling. I like how you've described it. Be a clear, clean force. It's like the lake. Someone can come, take, like, fresh water and then go out and do their thing. Like they're thirsty. Okay. Now go back out and do what you do best.

And often they will empty themselves of what they don't want into the space of who you are. And if you don't own it and don't hold it, then it clears out of the field. You know, after you clear yourself, you know, you get into this place where other people will do that. But it's no different because we're all connected. You know, it's not like they're burdening us. It's just that it's just an open space here. And, you know, it clears just the way my own stuff that I used to think I owned clears through me. It's no big deal.

I would love to ask you about that because on the subject of intuition, sensitivity, it's very easy to. I used to feel like this to be a sponge for other people's energy. So how have you learned to do exactly that? Where people can bring you things but you don't hold on to them, you actually, you're helping to clear them. How have you learned to do that instead of getting consumed or by other people?

Pros and cons of empathy, Right?

Exactly. And being an empath.

Yeah. I think that a lot of it really has to do with centering. You know, we have that home frequency or your preferred state. And you know yours by the speaking of right speech and so forth. And when you're in that alignment, you feel really good. You feel like you're yourself. You get connected to source. Your information is kind of just right. You know, you learn that feeling, and then you know the feeling of when you're not in it and you've gone back into, you know, your insecurity or Whatever your cloud of insecurity was that you had, and you know the difference between. And so then you make a choice. You say, look, I don't like to be in my cloud of insecurity, or I don't like to be reactive and thinking people are stupid out in the world or whatever it is. And so then I choose to make myself comfortable, not apathetic, but go into my own state of deep comfort or, you know, that sense of.

Just core truth, I guess. And so then when you do that enough, then you can go out and feel other people's ways of being and almost like feel right through them, see through them into where their mistakes of perception are, how they're living their life according to universal principles, and partly not according to universal principles. And then you're just getting data again and you don't have to match their vibration. You can get the information and stay in your own level at the same time. And that. I can't tell you how much that helps. You know, it's just learning to hold your own but also be open to good ideas.

Right, right.

You know, because we're evolving and. Yeah. So, yeah, it's just practice. I don't think any of these things are really difficult, you know.

They do.

It does. Like, one thing I really had to work on was I would get hooked. So sometimes what people would say or their energy would bounce right off, but if it was touching a sore spot in me, I would get hooked. I get offended, sad, mad, whatever. And for so long I knew that, oh, personal responsibility is so important. But then certain hooks, I would think it's all their fault, you know, And I really, through reading a lot of Byron, Katie's work, really practice day after day after day. Like when I would get bothered, what's my role here? How can I see this differently? Because I'm the one getting bugged if I'm the one.

Well, it's kind of like you need to notice I do this too. I mean, it's just human, I think. But when your mind makes it about the other, quote, unquote, it's a projection, right. So that you don't have to feel that thing in yourself. You project it onto other people. But the gift is that the other person and they, as a soul, are coming to help you, as a soul, understand that you've got a little block there where you can't feel the love.

And so that makes it an opportunity for us really to. To notice something that's in the way. And it's not about being wrong. It's just. Oh, I had that old thing that's in the way. I don't really like it anymore. I think I'll, you know, give it to goodwill or something. You know, I don't need this.

Right, Right. Or look where I. Look where I lost my power because I let someone else's actions. Like, one time I was in New York, I was walking down the street with a guy I was dating at the time. I think we were being very affectionate. So someone walking the other direction threw popcorn in our face. Like, he just reached into his bowl, threw it at our face, and we kept walking. And the guy that I was with was like, what the hell? Oh, my God. And he started to get, like, rage started boiling up in him, and, like, I totally understand that impulse, but in this case, it was just popcorn. The guy kept walking. So I'm like, listen, we can either let this idiot, let it bring us down to his level, but why would we go down to the level of some random dude on the street? Like, what's the point of that? So for me, it was easier to just see how, like, okay, that happened. But why would I. Then double the suffering by then?

Yeah, double the suffering to just some.

Joe Schmo popcorn thrower on the street and match that frequency and then be, like, angry and so pissed off and, like, live it for the next, you know.

Yeah.

Hour.

Yeah, exactly. I love that. I mean, because it really is doubling the suffering. Because whatever. I mean, in a way, it can be a joke, too, but it's also that that person had a really weird motive of, you know, trying to feel superior or something.

Yeah.

Yeah. Well, I wanted to ask you. Maybe I don't know how much time we have left, but as you tune into people and you're working, you know, you're working with audiences, you're working one on one and all kinds of ways. But what do you think are the most important things that people are needing to learn or become adept at right now? Like, what kind of skills or kinds of consciousness?

I love your questions, Penny. They're so great. When you were asking that question, I pictured in my mind there were six times after Pivot Launched where I spoke to a room of a thousand people. And it's very. I had never spoken to that many at one time. And it's really powerful to have 2,000 eyeballs staring up at me on stage. Really humbling. And, you know, we were just talking about overwhelm, and I just felt the attention and hope and love. I really have so much Love for a room. When I go into a room, there's something about the way that people are looking and listening and paying attention because it's speaking to what they really want and giving people permission to pause and zoom out on their career, which I think relates to their life and understand.

What is it that, that I'm excited about? What do I enjoy? How can I grow? How can I make a bigger impact? And so I think those are the questions that people are asking right now. And that's certainly what I try to help facilitate. I'm not a typical keynote speaker because if I have an hour long slot, I take almost 30 minutes of that is interactive, where the audience, everyone's just doing exercises on their own.

Oh, I like that.

Because I think my best value isn't to just talk at a group for 60 minutes. It's to introduce some principles, the pivot mindset, then the method. But really the gift is that the people who chose to come, who had the courage and the will and willingness to take time out of their day to come to that session, get to pause, zoom out, reflect and be intentional about what excites them and how they can grow. And then I'd say the last piece of it, a theme that I see over and over and over again, two themes, is empowering people to start very small. That change doesn't have to be big, it doesn't have to be scary. What's one small, tiny thing you can start with? And that's very freeing. And then the other piece that was very freeing for me is taking the pressure off. Not like.

Whenever I tell an audience, like, it's okay if you feel afraid and insecure and unsure, keep going. So I think there's great relief in all of us realizing that if we're afraid, it's okay, it's fine. Like, I don't. I guess I used to expect that if I was meant to move in a direction, I wouldn't be afraid of it, or I should get rid of that fear before I kept going or I'd have to solve something first. And I just more and more come to believe. No, it's okay. It's just. Just accept the part that's afraid as long as you just keep moving so.

Well, doesn't that relate a bit to the whole idea of starting small? Because I think, you know, if you project to. Again, projection, if you project too far ahead and you think of what the whole big thing's supposed to look like and you can't get there from here, you know, it's like there's too much of a gap to try to cross. So it's all about staying in the present moment, which is small. You know, it's like in the physical realm it's small. But to me it's like you get a vision first, right? What excites you, that's what I hear you saying, is like, okay, let's look at your vision. Let's go up in the imaginal realm, let's feel the imaginal realm and then let's come on back down to the physical realm and see what's like a thing you could do that comes out of the vision that's of the same vibration as the vision, but right in the present moment that your body can enjoy doing and you feel fluid. And then maybe you go back out and check the vision again.

And then maybe come back down and okay, what's the next thing I could do? And you don't try to push or make it go too fast. And I mean, I'm hearing you really talking about how to materialize your destiny. You know, basically you know how to access it and then how to help it come through.

I often talk to authors and what you were saying of One Step at a Time. And I tell them, when you're writing, just write. Like, do not worry about editing or marketing or the COVID of the book or the title. You can't, it's too big. You can think about that up front when you're writing, just write. Then you'll get to the editing stage and it will be a ton of work. But when you're editing, don't worry about marketing. Like, don't get overwhelmed to the point that you stop the stage that you're in, even if you're planning some long term stuff. But then the calls I've had recently with authors, sometimes they'll reach out or we'll have a call, friend or otherwise. And the biggest piece of advice I tell them, like, listen to me. Your book is launching in two weeks. Have fun. Like your job. From this point forward, I command you, have fun. Like, do not let this pass you by where you're a stressed out basket case. Like I was when I launched my first book. What is the point? Like, it's such a privilege. And this goes for any project that we're working on. It's such a privilege to do the work. And I tell these authors, I'm like, listen, it does not matter how many books you sell during your launch week at all. You'll think about the success of the project in a one year, three year, five year time frame. Do not obsess over what is or isn't happening in this week. You owe it to yourself and to everyone you're hoping to reach to be joyful. And then I tell them, make sure a month after you launch skills, schedule one week of no meetings, if not two, and do nothing, have nothing on the calendar. And the reason I'm sharing this advice, even though not everyone listening will be an author, is that every single time they hang up the phone and they say to me, oh my God, thank you so much. How could I forget? Thank you for these reminders. Thank you for this permission. This is what I needed. Look, what they didn't need was, was 10 more pieces of marketing advice. They needed the permission to enjoy the process no matter what the outcome.

Yeah, I agree. What I'm hearing you talking about too is this. What I think is real important now is this blending of the left and right brain. To not identify yourself with the left brain totally, but to use it as the implementer of your visions. And so there's, we have to learn to access intuition and into the, you know, the be do have process is great, but then you have to return to being again to start another one. And that jump between the end result of something and the new beginning of something, people see it as invisible, but it's really full. It's the liminal space, you know, and so that taking time off, that's really important. It's like let yourself enjoy the. And have satisfaction in what just happened. I mean, look at now, your idea is in physical form. How cool. You know, and then relax a bit and let it settle in and let yourself feel it all the way, you know, you're really talking about the entire conscious creation process. Really.

Well, I learned from the best, Penny Pierce.

But I like the way you're translating it. I like the way you're translating it.

You're just coming out of a book launch. What was the biggest lesson you've learned now on the other side of releasing your big project to the world?

I would say that, you know, it's disappointing how little publishers do for authors anymore.

You know, they all, some of them said to me, well, you know.

Readers really just want to know authors personally now, so we can't do that. So you'll have to do all the promotional work yourself. Oh, anyway, I took your advice actually, and decided to do a podcast tour, an interview tour. And I just booked tons and tons and tons and tons of interviews and had decided to have a good time doing it. And I did. And I have no idea how it's working at this point, but I'm still doing it. And.

It'S been different. It's not, I don't, it's almost like I don't care if it sells, but I have a feeling it will. You know, books get their own life.

Yes.

They go out and do things that you wouldn't suspect. They make friends for you. They, you know, go into other countries. And.

I've seen that now because I've got 10 books, you know, and they all do something. And.

So, I mean, there'll be other ways of, you know, you have to reconsider what marketing is, don't you? I mean, it's really not about willpower. It's about kind of just letting, somehow letting people know that you're there and sending the right, the clear vibration of what you're doing out and saying if you're interested in this, you know, and you'll find it, you know, but I'll make, try to make it easier for you to find me.

But people find you anyway. You know, I remember I used to think I would take out an ad and put it in those directories and pay for it. I never got at one person from the ads, but I would get people coming in from other connections and word of mouth and you know, it was almost like I did a ritual or ceremony to say that I was available and then, you know, the field gave it to me.

So I love what you said of like redefining marketing. And I have friends who've been very successful with Facebook marketing and it's been on my list for many years, but I don't use Facebook. So every time I go to set up Facebook Facebook ads, I feel blocked. I just don't want to even touch it with a ten foot pole. Then I realized, oh, it's not within integrity for me. Why would I advertise? Why would I like shove my ads in people's faces if I'm not even posting personal status updates?

Yeah.

Doesn't make sense. And I, I've got a very, I would call myself very, very stubborn marketer because I don't care what people say. I just feel like if my work is good enough, if it's just genuinely helpful, when one person is done reading the book, they will recommend it to a friend and if that person enjoys it, they'll recommend it to a friend. So maybe it's going to grow super slowly. But I don't feel that I should. I'm with you, of course, of course. And I love being on podcasts too. And of course I go want to spread the word and I'll take any resonant opportunity to do that. But beyond that, I feel like I can't force something to sell and moreover I don't even want to try because I feel it. I really believe in growth, viral marketing and viral growth and just word of mouth and gorilla and all these terms like grass.

Well, don't you think it's kind of about frequency really? It's like I find that the higher frequency I become or the clearer I become, the more almost frustrated or irritated I am at low frequency behaviors or like I can't make myself sit in a room with a lecture that I don't, you know, that I already know about or something, you know. And so I think there are forms, old forms that work with the old kind of perception that are based on linear perception, separation, meaning you have to use willpower and cleverness to get it to happen and work in your left brain and all of that. And I'm like just sick of that. Like it just, I'm not at all interested. And it's just what you were saying, you know, there are ways that you can work with the non physical realms and you know, like put almost like telepathic information out because there's in the inner worlds of non physical, there's no time or space. It's all immediately interconnected. So you can heal people, you can send out messages and it's not even spaced across, it's just frequencies. And those who are on your wavelength will suddenly show up and it's like this effortless kind of thing. I remember years ago when I had just written Frequency and the Simon Schuster sales people called and said, well, we just wondered what are you doing to market this book? Because it's really selling a lot. And I said nothing. You know, I was doing some radio interviews.

But you know, it just.

I just let it be, you know, in transparency. I talk about let yourself be exposed, like for what you are. You don't have to promote yourself, but you don't have to hide. You don't have to put on a mask. You don't have to form yourself in a particular shape. The people who can use what you have will come.

I don't know, I just have this faith in that kind of thing.

I do believe that if you tell people what you love, they will help you get it because they want you to be happy.

I love that. I love that. Yeah. And it brings us Full circle, too. Back to this childlike excitement feeling right. I only want people to share my work if they feel that way. Like, if someone's enjoying this podcast. But by all means, we'd love if you sent it to a friend or two. But barring that, why would I.

Email BCC 100 people and be like, please spread the word about my podcast. Here's a tweet. I'm sure they would do it, but why not leave it to the people that are like, oh, my God, this podcast blew my mind. I loved it. You have to listen to it, because I've done that. I've sent those not of my own, but of other people's, to friends. And I like, that's the frequency. That's the energy and enthusiasm with which I would love for people to share my work.

Well, I think for you, I bet a lot of people come to your talks and lectures not to get the information, but just your energy just to be with you.

Thank you, Jenny.

Actually, I spoke at Chanel, and it was one of the, if not the nicest intros someone's ever given, where she just said. Because I've spoken there a few times. And she said, although we love Jenny's work and her ideas, it's her smile that's truly memorable. And it was like, the sweetest. Nobody ever introduced me to give a keynote smile speech by talking about my smile and my energy. And I just felt. Talk about transparent. I felt so seen and appreciated for just being an enthusiastic presence for them and beyond even what's written in pivot. And that was really sweet. It was really sweet. So thank you for saying that.

Well, I mean, I think it's quite true that, you know, again, the left brain thinks it's all about the. This thing we're providing, the book, the message, the whatever. But a lot of it is just the basic experience of the energy that you're.

Not even channeling. What's the right word for that? Just experiencing that, you know, that you're.

Living in and bringing into the world.

And I think that is. I have made a choice ways, I guess, consciously or not, I don't know. But, like, I am who I am. And not everyone's gonna like the enthusiasm or they're gonna think I'm too, like, cheerleadery or Pollyanna or something. I don't know. But I. Whether it's a podcast guest or whatever company I'm speaking at, I really don't change my energy too much to be like, well, what would they want me to be @chanel vs how do they want me to be at Google? Vs? What about this guest I'm interviewing? Should I tone it down? Because it'd be cooler? Because he's got a cooler vibe? I can't really do that.

No, no.

I think there's something. Maybe you can. I mean, I guess you did just write this book, Transparency. But I still think in all this talk about be yourself and unlike our soul's calling, is just to be more of who we are. And it's. It's a journey. I mean, I guess it really is a lifelong journey, because.

Although I can do that in some areas, there are others where I don't even see how. I'm, like, blinded by societal expectations. Like, I just chopped off my hair. Anyone listening? Whatever you see in the podcast photo, it's gone. It's like I cut 8 or 10 inches now it's above my shoulders.

That's like letting go of your past, you know, it's like letting go. All that hair was there when you were doing other things right in your past thing. So now all that's gone.

I feel so energetically freer, lighter, more playful. But the reason I didn't cut it for years and years and years and years and years is that long hair is sexier or more glamorous or more of a statement. Like, I had all of these ideas about having long hair that were part of what I felt was necessary. And, yeah, it really is free to have it gone. It's the second time in my life it's been this short, and I'm into it. It's working. But it is weird. I look in the mirror and I'm like, oh, I don't have that instant. Like, what I used to think was, like, a femininity marker of just, like, long, flowing hair. But so anyway, that was just an example of where I wasn't really letting myself explore because I just felt I had a should. So I think maybe that's for a future conversation, is we could really explore this of. Yeah, because you can tell when you're not being your transparent self.

Well, that's true. You know, and it is an evolution, and it is. I mean, even going back to past lives, you think, how many past lives we all have? Those are all expressions of the true self.

How many lives do you think we have?

A hundred? A thousand?

Thousands? Thousands. Really?

Wow.

Yeah, I think. I mean, I don't know. Not everybody, but I think a lot.

Yeah.

And, you know, from the soul's point of view, they are simultaneous, you know, because there's no time or space, no real separation. It's an interesting, you know, it's like a hand with all the fingers coming down at once into the physical world and all these lives in different times in space quadrants happening. Which is like amazing.

It is. You have to write this book, Penny.

Well, we'll have to have another talk about so many things about, you know, like I think people are clearing themselves tremendously right now and, and like you said, accessing their, their real purpose and moving into new levels of their work and expanding themselves tremendously. And you know, and, and just some of these concepts about just like that, like how many past lives are all feeding into this one moment now, you know, that we're weaving our present life out of all these other times and places. And it's not linear.

It really is mind boggling for the left brain. It's not linear, but it's important too, I think when we look at the way things are right now and from the left brain point of view and the linear point of view, that's old perception. Everything we look at from that point of view we have defined in a certain way, like what is education or what is marriage or what is whatever, you know. But when you look at it from the new perception that's coming in now, this after transformation, as you transform every single one of those things that we take for granted changes into some different way of understanding it that is going to. That's an interesting discussion. How do we see that happening? That's so fascinating.

And I think it takes courage and curiosity to even be open to saying, wow, my left brain really cannot understand this. Or even I have an aversion to it and then still be open somehow. And that's taken me work to do that, but I love it. There's a Neil DeGrasse Tyson quote, something like innovation lies at the edge of our ignorance. And I'm paraphrasing, but what I love about that is that we think, oh, this works that way, you know, until we don't, until we learn or until we get exposed to something bigger. And.

I think it's important because I agree, I think.

I don't know. And it's, it's fun to explore these things. And I think there's an inner resonance like for me with the past lives, like I rejected even opening that book for so many years, but one now I did, I can't pull myself away from them. So it's like, it's funny to look at how we reject ideas that don't Fit our left brain well.

Or timing.

Or timing.

Yeah. I think things always are perfect the way they come about, you know, And I do, too. But it does come with its own sense of humor.

That's true.

That's true. I love the sense of humor. I think when I. Back when I read Intuitive Way of Yours and started paying attention, I was like, oh, the universe is funny. Like, there's very funny winks that I get. Coincidences. They're funny. Like, there's a real sense of humor happening.

Yeah. And, you know, and some of them are just astoundingly beautiful. I walked out on my. I had kind of a breakdown a little while ago and was sobbing and crying and, you know, just whatever. I was releasing something. And then I walked out my front door, and there was this gorgeous large dragonfly that had died right on my. Welcome Matt. And facing toward the door. And I picked him up and brought him inside. And I was like, oh, my God, this is so precious. And then it occurred to me, like, maybe I should look up what a dragonfly is. And it was all about new consciousness, new perception, you know, new things coming in for you. And it's like, how does nature talk to us? Or who helps coordinate this kind of thing, you know?

May I remind you that you have a dragonfly on the COVID of Bits and Pieces? And you sent it to me when I had had a dragonfly land on my Kindle in Bali. And I told you yes, because he stayed there for 10 minutes, and I just thought, wow, stays on my Kindle while I'm reading for 10 minutes. He must be telling me something. And then. So you had had the Dragonfly theme, even. That's even more interesting that it came back to you. So fun.

Good stuff. Good stuff. Yeah.

Thank you so much, Penny, for all the wonderful questions. And if anyone listening, if you have questions that you'd want us to riff on on a future Penny and Jenny show. Oh, yeah, we'd be delighted to. Yeah. So please send them in.

Good. Good. Yeah. Because I like our two different points of view on some of these things, you know, so.

Yeah. And you're the only one. I really never talk about this stuff publicly, so. Thank you, Penny, for the learnings and the inspiration and the being such a great friend and mentor to be able to open these conversations up to more people. And. Yeah, if you were listening and you enjoyed it, hey. And it feels great. Share it with a friend. But otherwise, let us know if you have any other questions. And you can submit through the contact form@pivotmethod.com or Penny, how can people dive.

Into the I have a contact. Yeah. At my website, pennypierce.com there's a contact form that people can write to me on.

Perfect.

Yeah.

Amazing. Well, thank you again, Pen, so much.

It was so much. Yeah, it was. Thank you so much for doing this with me.

Thank you. I can't wait to do it again.

Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the Pivot podcast. Make sure you don't miss an episode or my insider tips and templates by signing up for Pivotlist, a curated twice monthly newsletter where I share the inside scoop on what I'm reading, watching, listening to and the latest tools I'm geeking out on. Sign up@pivotmethod.com pivotlist get show notes from this episode@pivotmethod.com podcast and connect with me on Twitter at Jenny Blake.

Remember, build first, then your courage will follow. Hasn't it always.