91: Divine Time Management — Putting Faith Forward in Business and Love with Elizabeth Grace Saunders

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Hello friends. Welcome back to the Pivot Podcast. I am super excited to have Elizabeth Grace Saunders here today to talk about a book that's been on my radar for months now and I was just waiting for the perfect divine timing, if you will, to have her on the show. We are here talking about Elizabeth's latest book, Divine Time Management. Elizabeth, welcome to the show.

My pleasure. I'm so excited to be here.

Something I find really interesting about you. We've been friends in the blogosphere and bookosphere, even though we haven't yet met in person for many years. And your first two books were on the three secrets to effective Time investment and how to invest your time like money. I know that this book, Divine Time Management, was a big leap for you. It was the first book where you're putting your faith forward forward into your book, into your business. The subtitle is the Joy of Trusting God's Loving Plans for you. And I have to be straightforward myself in saying that when your book first came out, I didn't know how to best incorporate it into the podcast. And I was wondering, well, what is the place of faith and God and people's different beliefs in the podcast and how do we make it comfortable for everyone listening? These were the thoughts going through my head. And then in recent months I've just been drawn more and more this way and you and I have had private discussions in email about the vulnerability required in kind of putting this forward. So I would love to hear what this journey was like for you of writing this book and how, well, nerve wracking it was for you to be vulnerable in this way in your work publicly.

Yeah, no, and I love your transparency and honestly, I felt the same Way too. And I'm a person of, like, very strong faith. So when I was thinking about taking this leap into sharing I'm a Christian and sharing about my faith, I was like, oh no, what are people going to think of me? So I guess as a little bit of my story, I have been a business owner for over 12 years and specifically in the area of time management coaching for nine years. So I started doing that in the beginning of 2009. And that came out of my passion for helping people achieve work, life balance and more peace and calm with their time. Because when I had started my first business, I had no work, life balance. I was. I felt guilty whenever I wasn't working and I was stressed out all the time. I kind of figured out how to get to a place of peace with, with that and then start helping others. So that was amazing. And we met during that time. And like you said, I've published two books. So in many ways from, I would say a quote unquote, practical business sense, I really shouldn't have written Divine Time Management, which is my most recent book. If you're really an expert in all these business things and people want to hire you to do that, and it's relatively easy because you've established your expertise, why would you take a left turn and all of a sudden talk about something really private when I have worked with so many people and very deeply respect people of all different faith backgrounds or those who choose not to engage in spiritual things. And the reason I did that, it was a couple reasons. So one was this was about two years ago and I had been doing time management coaching for about six and a half years and six and a half, seven years. And honestly, it was starting to feel a little bit empty. There was something inside of me and I think there's this six, seven year mark for a lot of people with their businesses or just different things in their life where I used to feel so, so passionate about what I was doing and what was going on and helping people with their schedules. And all of a sudden I felt a little bit like I was on repeat. Like you could press a recorder and I'd be saying the same things about priorities and schedules and planning. And that frightened me because when you're really good at something and people know you for that and you have books with that, to all of a sudden feel like, ugh, maybe I'm not that passionate about it, maybe feels scary and you don't know how long you'll be able to keep that up. So that was one Part and then the second part was I was at church one day and I often feel like God speaks to me at church. And I felt like I heard someone say something, say, I believe God. You need to start giving me the glory in your business. And I was like, so what does that mean? You know.

I'm not so sure about that.

Yeah, I'm not so sure about that. So it's like, okay, so I know that you're taking away kind of my core passion for what I have been doing. And now I'm supposed to give you the glory. Does that mean I ditch everything? I mean, you know, I'm having these thoughts like, do I leave behind my whole business? Like do something crazy? And so I let it percolate for a few months. And what I ended up coming to the conclusion of is that it wasn't that I needed to ditch my whole business, but that I wanted to start a divine time management group coaching program based on Christian principles if people were interested, while I was still doing my one on one coaching with everyone, you know, all over the world. And then also I wanted to start on the book proposal for this book, Divine Time Management. And so to do that I kind of had to come out of the closet to my audience. And so I did that through a series of newsletters that fall. And it was, it was really amazing. A few things happened. One, I was scared. I was so scared, I was like, am I going to lose all my clients?

But I was like, I have to do this, I really have to do this. It's the right thing to do. And what ended up happening was that I felt reinvigorated for my whole business because all of a sudden I was integrating this part of me I'd never integrated into my work before. And that just gave me a little excitement and a little passion. And all of a sudden I started liking the one on one coaching again, the time management coaching. And I was also developing this new thing. So that was amazing. So it was kind of like I felt alive again inside. And then the second thing that was so interesting is that when I came out to my audience about the fact I'm a Christian and all of that, overall the vast majority of people were amazing. Like there are some people that were like, I always knew you were a Christian, like Baba, like sending me Bible verses. And then there was other people that aren't people of faith. But.

Again, wrote me just amazing newsletter, amazing emails and were like, I really respect who you are and what you're doing and that you're Being authentic to yourself. I'm not of the same faith persuasion, but it's awesome that you're being genuine. And in that process, I really tried to be respectful. So I gave people the option, if they wanted to, to basically opt out of those kind of emails if that wasn't their thing. So I could keep track of that and still honor them and give them great content without giving them things that, you know, may make them feel uncomfortable, because I totally respect that. And then for those who are interested, I was offering more of that. One final thing I'll say, and then I'll let you talk, is of course I had a few people that got mad at me and sent like mean emails and unsubscribed and did all of that, but it was just such a very, very small number that it honestly just isn't a big deal compared to all the number of people that were like, this is awesome that you're being genuine to yourself. Even if I don't necessarily agree with you, I still think it's cool that you're. You're being honest and authentic, which is.

Such a contrast from the fear that everyone's going to leave in droves. Yeah, I love how you bucketed this into three categories. Those who were all about it and extra excited, those who might not have shared the same faith but were still happy to stick around and could discern what was most helpful for them or not. And then the very small percentage who did leave. Right. There's always going to be that, that percentage. I find it so interesting that you, me, others I speak with, why is it that around this conversation of faith in business, are we so closeted? Like you said, come out. Come out of the closet. Someone else said, I feel like a Secret Service agent with my faith. I felt like I had to sneak in any of my spiritual beliefs into pivot. And I, and I also see this movement of people being sick of that like you described, if it starts to feel empty or incomplete, if you are hiding apart. But it's, it's just so interesting to me that we live in a culture where we're raised to hide it in the first place.

Right. Well, it's really, really interesting because I actually just read an article by Bernay Brown yesterday and.

Of course, there's always the perfect divine timing that I just read it yesterday. So the name of the article was, and I know this will sound unrelated, but I promise, I promise I will. It was, it was called Gun Reform was the title and then the subtitle was Speaking Truth to bullshit, practicing civility and effecting change. And basically the point, and this was adapted from her new book Braving the Wilderness that came out by Brene Brown. And basically her point in this article about gun reform. And by the way, I don't have strong beliefs about guns. So this, that's not the point. But the point is this is that she was making note in this article that so often people create false dichotomies. So they are like, okay, you're either totally against all guns or you're like a crazy gun person who supports people doing horrible things. And like you're an NRA person and they create this like false dichotomy. And Brene's point in the article was she happened to grow up in a family where hunting was part of their family culture, but they were very responsible, like very safe with guns. And she would, she supports responsible gun ownership but she, she isn't a supporter of the nra. And in this article she shared this, this story of this woman who got very upset at her and was like, you know, you're in or you're out, either no guns or you are like, yeah, into craziness. And so I think that's what can happen in the spiritual realm is that there are some people and I would like, I personally consider myself both spiritual and religious. So I see myself as a very spiritual person, very personal relationship with God and I also choose to do outward things, like I do go to church and all of that. And I would say I'm part of a particular, particular group. But that being said, there, I would say that there are many people that are very religious but not spiritual and there can be this false dichotomy like, oh well, you're a member of this faith, like you're a Christian so that must mean like you're a horrible means mean hearted person that accepts no one and like wants to like, I don't know, do all these crazy things, which isn't true. Like that's not who I am, you know, and, but I think that people.

Come come up with these false dichotomies and so then we're afraid that they're going to label or like put all these things on us that aren't who we actually are. And I was thinking about it and just recently I really think that there's this spectrum of like love versus hate. And I think that there's a whole lot of people of all different spiritual backgrounds that are actually very similar on this love spectrum. Like would be more towards the love side and Then there's a whole bunch of people of all different spiritual backgrounds who are much stronger on the hate side. And I think that's actually what's happening more than, oh, you're part of this particular faith group and so then you have all these qualities. So there may be some. Although I am a Christian and I believe strongly in being Christian, I might have more in common with someone of a very different faith than someone else who calls themselves Christian. But it comes at it from very, like, hate filled point of view, if that makes any sense. Absolutely.

That's a great point and I think you nailed it. Which is the fear of being labeled. Yeah, there is a lot of labels that do get attached because we have such a history with religion and each person has such a history with religion or rejecting religion or whatever it is. But that. Yeah, I can see exactly what you mean. This fear of being labeled. I want to read an excerpt from your book and I want to start with the end because I just got the biggest smile when I was reading this. In the epilogue, you say, I often wondered why God picked me to write this book on letting go of control. The best I can tell, he has a really good sense of humor. I started out feeling pretty good about my credentials, but through the process of writing Divine Time Management, I realized how completely unqualified I was to write it. A type A personality, a planner, a high achiever, a go getter, and a time management coach, for goodness sake. I thought I had mastered the art of being in control for most of my life and was proud of it. And here I am writing about how to do the opposite of what I've spent most of my years doing and teaching others to do the best. I can tell it all comes down to one simple word, grace.

I just love the humanity and the humility of at the end of your book, saying I'm the least qualified person who should have written it and that it seemed to go against everything you had been teaching and your humility in saying, at the end of the day, it all comes down to grace. And I just love this journey that you went on in working on the book of going from a state of control to grace. So I'd love if you could speak to that. Just the vulnerability of thinking you had it all figured out, knowing this was your profession and then ending up where you did in this epilogue of the book.

Yeah, yeah. Is it weird if you get goosebumps when you hear your own words? Read that. Just happened to me. So anyway. Yeah, yeah, so. And that's not the first time I apologize in the book. So pretty early in the book, Divine Time Management, I'm like, I'm sorry for telling you to do this and that I was wrong. So public apology. So, yeah. Oh my goodness. Jenny. This book was by far the hardest book for me to write. I had written two other books, but they were very much positioned. It's me as the expert, so I'm the expert. I've got my act together. All you type B people in the world, let's be type A like me. Here's how you do it, here's how you get it done. Steps one, two and three. And when I wrote the books, it wasn't that my first two books weren't vulnerable. I mean any book you write is your baby and you care about it. It's hard. But, but I very much. It was, it almost is like, was very affirming to. I don't think I have a very big ego, but whatever I do have, it was affirming to it. It was like, yeah, you know what you're doing, you know what you're. This is great. Divine Time Management was the polar opposite. I literally would be in tears writing the book we have. For people that aren't familiar with the book process. Once you turn in your first draft, which is called a manuscript, the editors will look at it and they'll send it back to you and you'll do a few rounds of edits. So that's where you make changes. And I would get back the edits and maybe hadn't seen the book for a month or two. I would read it, I would literally be in tears again because I was so convicted, particularly by.

I think what most convicted me was that although I would say that I've been someone of faith my whole life, I grew up in a Christian home and have always felt close to God. I had, with my time management, I had had such like self idolatrous point of view. Like my life is great and I'm in control and I know what I'm doing. And in a way blocking out God, blocking out the divine because, well, God, please bless my plans. You know, I got the right plans. Just do it. And through this book I was really challenged to completely change my orientation to recognize, you know, I am not God and I shouldn't be God and God does know best and everything I do should be from a place of love. And it just, it like I remember specifically there's one time I emailed you when I was in this book writing process and you had interviewed another author and she had talked about the process of transformation. She was also very spiritual and. And I literally felt like my insides melted down at like a butterfly in a cocoon or a caterpillar in a cocoon. Like, I literally, like, couldn't feel my insides. It was like I didn't have a solid structure. And then in the process of writing this, writing this book, I got melted down and then reborn. And so a year later, after having written it.

I can't even describe to you how much calmer I am, how there's things that used to freak me out. Like I'd be like, in tears about them or, like, anxious or shaking or like, whatever that I can be totally peaceful about. And also, like, one thing I share in my book, which again, may not sound like time management, but I think it's related, is love for your storyline.

And I can't wait to ask you about that.

Yeah, we'll talk about that more later. But I can tell you that when we talk about it more later, a lot of things haven't necessarily changed externally, but internally I have this huge peace with who I am and where I'm at in life. And so I was changed by writing this book and I became a new person in the process in a way that the first two books never came close to doing that in my life.

How did the idea of divine time management come to you? I'm guessing there's a mix of the spiritual and practical. How did it come to you if it wasn't yet integrated? What gave you the message that, or how did you know this was something that. A way you. You had a room to grow even in working on the book.

Yeah. So.

And maybe just share a nugget of what divine time management is.

Oh, yeah, that would be probably helpful. Like. Like talking. Everyone knows when I invented it. So, yeah, there you go.

Me too.

So. So, yeah. Okay, so two parts. So first, why write about it? Well, it was. It was the natural extension of God saying, you need to give me the glory in your business. And so me being open about who I was personally, you know, very respectful of other people, still wanted to work with them, but just being honest about my truth.

Starting the group coaching program based on the concept and then this book was, okay, well, how do I explain this to people? And what does this even look like? And I mean, I had no idea. I didn't. I had no idea. All I knew is I was going to write a book about a spiritual approach to time management and I had just no idea. So what I did is I.

Put in my mind that I would start working on the proposal at the beginning of. Would have been the beginning of 2016. And I set aside every Wednesday I blocked in my schedule as a coaching call free day, because I do a lot of time management coaching calls, and I would just go to coffee shop and just work on this proposal. And for people who aren't familiar with the book writing process, when you're doing nonfiction, instead of writing the book, you start with a book proposal, which is kind of like a business plan, I would say, for your book to give a sense of what you intend to write about and why you might be the right person to write it. So I just committed myself to the process of every Wednesday working on this proposal and allowing these ideas to form. And you just have to trust the process, like any writer, that the ideas will come when you put yourself in that creative space. And one thing I was very proud of myself about is typical. Elizabeth would be like, okay, well, I'm doing this and it's going to be done by this date and this time and blah, blah, blah. But I just let it take. I let the proposal take what it needed. And so I told my agent roughly when I thought it would be done, but I ended up needing a month longer, and that's okay. So over the process of about four or five months, I came up with the construct of this idea and divine time management. The book is structured in three different sections, and it's definitely faith based. But I have people that aren't Christians or really even necessarily very spiritual at all who said they enjoyed it. So you never know, you might like it.

I feel like I learn about Christianity through reading your book. I'm sorry if this offends anyone, but I've never read the Bible. I've never done Bible study, but there's a lot of passages in there. And some of them I was like, oh, wow. Oh, I've never heard that. That really resonates.

Yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome.

But it is very prominent, and I love that you went for it. You didn't tiptoe into this. You went all in.

Yeah, I did. I did. And so this is a whole shift of heart. So the first section of the book is about trusting God at the center of your time management. And this is, I think, one of the biggest things that makes it divine because it's our focus, our orientation. So I would say God. If you're from a different spiritual background, you might say, you know, higher or God of your understanding or higher being universe. That's fine. That's cool. But it's about taking our focus off of ourself. And, like, I have to control things, and I need everything my way, or it's not going to be okay.

Or I have to do it all myself.

Yeah, exactly.

Just from the title alone and the way you wrote the book, it's so much more about surrender and partnership and love and respect.

Muscling time management. Like a bodybuilder.

Exactly. And I remember, I love listening to your podcast, and you had someone on who was also very creative. And he wasn't coming from, like, a faith perspective, but he was coming more from a spiritual perspective. And he had said, you know, I wrestled a long time with not feeling, like, just thinking it was all based on me. And he had, like, I believe he had applied to a ton of TED talks or all of that Jeffrey saw. Yeah, yeah. And then he was like, I realized, regardless of wanted, whether I liked it or not, we all have to surrender. So there's something sometimes higher powers than ourselves at work. So that's the first element, like, letting go of this need to control and muscle everything to a place of there is some higher being and he's working for my goodness. And then the second.

What about people who don't believe even that? What if. What about people who say, but is there, though? Or they're not sure. Maybe they're just afraid or.

Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, so first of all, I just want to validate. That's totally normal. There's lots of people that feel that way and look that way, and they might think I'm totally kooky because in my book, I talk about talking to God. And I'll be honest, like, even my editor, she was like, elizabeth, like, should you really? Like she said, in a very nice way, but more or less people might think you're crazy.

Even Christian people. And I'm like, I don't care. Like, that's like, my experience of life. So I'm gonna say it.

You really can't go halfway, I think, on these, like, I love. You have to be yourself.

Yeah, exactly. And so for people that aren't kind of don't have a spiritual consciousness.

Yeah. Where they just want it. Like, I can see people who would think, yeah, yeah, divine time management sounds great. I would love to think that there's someone who has a higher plan for me, but I'm afraid. I'm afraid to let go of that control, because what if everything does fall apart?

Right. Right. Well, I would say just try and see what happens. And so much of this isn't actually that huge a change in what you do. It's a shift of your heart, your mindset. So. So I'm not saying sit on your butt on the couch and eat potato chips and expect the universe to bring you everything you want without you tuning. Like, that's not what I'm saying. But what I am saying is, okay, well, how about you just try it out? Maybe you're not sure there's a God. Maybe you don't know if any higher power is working for your good. How about you just try? You just, like, instead of freaking out about something you can't control anyway, how about you just try to be at peace and just think, okay, I don't even know if anything's out there, but I'm just gonna trust it's all gonna work out. Things aren't going according to my plan, but I just trust everything's gonna be fine and I'm gonna be taken care of and no matter what happens, I'm going to be okay. And then just see how that impacts you. Are you more peaceful? Are you more calm? Do you have greater confidence and greater joy versus if you're like, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, it's not going to be, I'm running late, I'm running late. Ah, the world's going to end. Like, seriously, do you want to live that way? So, I mean, it's just a happier way to live. And so just try it out and see. See how it goes. So I would say that's. I love those questions. Please keep asking those. Because I have a tendency to just be in my happy little world and be like, oh, well, everyone this way. So, yeah, but great question. And I would just say, just try the surrender thing and see how happy you feel. And again, this isn't about abdicating personal responsibility and this isn't about despair. Like, I'm not saying, like, oh, well, I can never ever do anything to improve my life, so I'm just. It's just hopeless. No, no, this is. I'm doing what I can, but then I'm surrendering. I'm trusting it's all going to work out.

And then the second component of divine time management in my book is love for your true identity, which once again may be like, what? Time management identity? But as you can see in the book, I talk about a lot of false identities. These molds, we feel we have to fit labels. We live up to positions or Possessions. And what so sad is that so many people are spending the majority of their time trying to live up to some image or some expectation in their head, and they're not being authentic to themselves at all. And that's probably your biggest way you could waste your time, because you are living for something, investing your time in ways that.

Isn'T who you really are and isn't what you really want to do. So that's the second part. And I talk about what are some of those ways we have false identities and then how to break free. And that's. I mean, goodness. That's something that I really had to work on a lot. And going through this book, even I became a lot more authentic as a person. And then the third part of the book is about instead of having this idea of us having.

Enough understanding of the whole big picture of the universe to know exactly what our priority should be at any moment, the concept of alignment with God. And I divided that chapter, or excuse me, I divided that section into three chapters on right relationship with God, right relationship with others, and right relationship with yourselves. With the whole concept being that Jesus talks about loving the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and loving your neighbor as yourself. And this goes back to what we were talking about in terms of, you know, why do people not want to say, I'm a person of faith? Well, we're afraid of being labeled as, like, hateful people because we do have faith. And that is not what Jesus taught. Like, Jesus taught us to walk in love, to honor people, to respect them. And I really believe that if we're living lives of love, that we will experience the best possible, even if we don't get the most things done in a day.

So beautifully said. You've captured it really well, this feeling of I call them sexy shoulds. And whether it's an impression of who we think we should be or even a request for our time, that almost seems compelling. Like, I think there are certain ways that we contort ourselves that we know we shouldn't do. And it's an obvious no. But then there are other aspects of time management, and I love that you tie it right into our very identity. Because that's why I think time management is not this just super cut and dry thing of, oh, come on. You just need to learn how to schedule better or prioritize better, because our identity is tied into this. And things you talk about, like people pleasing or being someone we're not. How did you. You said you became more authentic in this process. How do you discern divine time management and this more easeful approach when even very sexy shoulds were on the table, like opportunities that seemed compelling that you should say yes or aspects of yourself that you would feel you should pursue. And then ultimately how do you decide or how do you tell that it's not the right way to go?

Yeah. So.

In terms of this, I think.

All, all of us have these. It doesn't matter if you're a business owner, any part of your career, whether you have even have a career or not. But I'll just talk specifically business ownership because I think that will probably be the most dramatic for some people. So.

Right in the same time, when I had on my heart that I wanted to start on this journey of divine time management, God really put on my heart to stop doing time management training. So I was still doing time management coaching. But in addition to coaching, of course you can do training incorporations. And.

The reason that I.

Stopped doing that or felt I should stop doing it is that I was, I was taking on these trainings and it felt before it had felt great and it was starting to feel like, oppressive. Like I literally, instead of being like, oh, that's great, I got a time management coaching contract. Like I literally felt like I was getting closed in from all sides. Like, I don't want to do it. This is awful. Like, ah.

And, and I've really struggled because from a quote unquote practical business point of view, like, this is brilliant. You have these corporations coming to you, they'll pay you lots of money to do these things.

But it felt awful. Like there was no passion in me for it. I didn't want to do it and I would just be in dread. And so I was reading the Bible, I was actually reading the Old Testament and it was talking about the individuals who were working on the temple and it talked about how their heart stirred within them and they were like they were inspired from within to do the work that they were supposed to do. So it wasn't some oppressive thing. It was like their hearts stirring within them to do this great work of artistry. And I recognized that my heart was not stirring within me to do time management training. For sure. I like the coaching. The training was like not working for me anymore. So when I recognized that and I recognized what it was doing to me and how it was draining my energy, it felt oppressive. I even saw it negatively influencing some of my relationships. So like, I have a really close friend and like I hurt her not on purpose, but because I was like, stressed out about all this training stuff. I was like, no, enough is enough. And I was actually just about to sign a new time management training contract. Like, the contract had already been written and I was just going to sign it. I emailed the person, I was like, sorry, I can't do it. And then I had four other contracts that were on the table and I was just like, sorry, no, can't do it, not going to. And so as soon as I did that, like, peace opened up. Joy opened up. Everything I was doing, from my one on one coaching, to working on this new group, to working on my book, it was like coming out from inside of me, like bursting up and out, like, I'm so excited to do this.

Instead of like, oh my God, like, oh, this is awful. And so that's how I knew I had done the right thing. Again, from a quote unquote practical business point of view, did I make the right choice? Some people would say no, but from a life point of view, I was thrilled. And ironically, not ironically, I don't know. However you want to look at it, my revenues went up a lot that year and I think it was because I was obedient to not do the things I felt I had to do to make money and instead do what my heart and my soul were calling me to do.

I love how you describe those inner stirrings. And I was going to ask if you saw a dip in your business, but if you zoom out, you can see that you earned more that year.

I did.

And with more joy, more calm and more joy.

Yeah, exactly. I was not stressed out at all. And I made a lot more money and I was like, working less and I was like, oh, sweet, awesome. Glad I did that one.

Because some people would have the fear, no, I can't let go of my cash cow. I can't let go of the thing that. But as you described, I mean, your language is so vivid as well that when you considered that opportunity, it felt like the walls were closing in on you. That's a sure sign not to proceed.

Yes, yes. Don't do it. That's my advice. Don't do it. You're gonna really regret it later.

I want to circle back to what you mentioned about storylines and there's a section of the book about letting go of forcing your storyline in which you get very vulnerable and you share that. Although you've been blessed with so many things and you have this great thriving business, your health, your friends, your family, the one area that you had a storyline that you'd be married with kids by now. And that so much of the acceptance and it's incorporated into Divine Time management is you don't always get everything you want right away. So I would love to hear how, how you wrap your mind and heart around the changing storyline even when it's something that you feel called to have and bring into your life.

Yeah, I'd be happy to share. And just like, so I guess people have a point of reference I don't mind sharing my age, I'm 35. So for some people that might be like, oh my gosh, you're so young, like get over yourself. But to put a little context, I live in the Midwest and I'm a Christian. And so like people get married when they're like 20 and have five babies by now. So like.

I'll give you a little context there. So yeah, so this was definitely the hardest part of my book to write. It was the very end of my book. And it's about this idea of loving our storyline. So we can think about time management from a micro point of view. So our day to day choices or even like a little bigger choices like do I take this or training contract or not. And then we can also think about it from a macro point of view. So like the big overarching themes of what's happening in our lives. And I know a lot of people have had a lot more struggles than I have, you know, So I know for some people maybe it's just getting into school and finishing college. Maybe you're in your 30s and you haven't finished college yet and you'd really like to get an education and you don't know how that will happen. Maybe you were someone who, you know, thought you would start a business by now or thought you'd be in a different place in your career or any number of things where we have kind of in our mind, well, this is how life's going to be. And we as young people, I don't think, or as kids, we don't question that. And then we get older and we're like, oh wait, this isn't happening according to my timeline. And for me, yeah, I've had a lot. I mean I've definitely had my struggles, I've had my ups and downs. I don't want to invalidate that. But in general, like usually within a couple of years things work out. You know, I can feel like, oh, that's why that happened with my business or that's why this happened. But for me the area of relationships hasn't been that way. So I've dated many people, I've been in many relationships, but have not come to the point of getting married or having children. And that's something I really love. Like, I'm the type of person that I volunteer at the nursery, and I'm babysitting my God, two of my godson's brothers this weekend.

And why I share this and why I think it's important is that I really think that we can make ourselves miserable when we choose to fight our storyline instead of surrendering to it. And.

Again, this is not saying don't do anything. So am I on online dating? Yep, I am. Like, am I going on dates? Am I meeting people? Yeah, I am. So I'm not, like, again, sitting in my house being like, universe, just work everything out for me. Am I working on myself? Absolutely, I am. But even with all that, things haven't worked out the way I hoped. And there's. There's two different parts to this. I think one part is that I wanted to really validate. It's okay to be upset about this just because a lot of things in your life are amazing. It's okay to be upset, angry, and frustrated with where you're at in life, whatever that may be, whether it's career, relationships, children. You know, some people really want to have kids and they are married. And for whatever reason, that hasn't happened yet. It's okay to be sad. It's okay for it to be hard. It's okay to cry about it. Like, and in the book, I share that and I read the audiobook. And honestly, when I read that part, I'll try not to cry right now. When I read the part of that audiobook, I broke into tears. We had to stop the recording because it was like, I was like.

Just talking about God's compassion towards me in that weakness. And so I just want you to know, whatever you're going through, it's okay to be upset about it, even if other people think it's trivial. And if you're open to the idea that there is a God, it's good to know that God is very compassionate towards you. So even if he's not giving you what you want right away, it doesn't mean that he delights in your suffering and sorry emotions. It doesn't mean that he doesn't care. Like. And, you know, he. Like, I know that his heart breaks for me. You know, like, he's like, I'm so sorry, Elizabeth. It's so hard. And I feel like, sorry.

I feel like he's told me that I won't have to wait a second longer than necessary, but for whatever reason, it's not that second yet. And so whether, you know, that's me with relationships, whether it's other people with, like, wanting a child, wanting a business, financial breakthrough, maybe you have cancer and you're like, seriously, God, why? You could cure this in a second. Why am I on chemo? You know, all of that. We all have our struggles. I think it's really, really important to know that God cares so much about you, and he is, like, crying with you. And I share that in my book, and I experience him in that. Like, that he is so compassionate towards you, and he's with you in your suffering. So that's, like, one part of it and then the second part of it. And I know I'm crying now, so you're gonna be like, you're welcome.

Thank you for being so open.

You're welcome.

Bringing your whole open self. Like, it's actually such a gift.

Yeah, you're welcome. You're welcome. And I know I just, like, start crying. So when I say almost every day.

It just doesn't happen to me.

Well, awesome. That's great. Yeah. Well, I started crying. So when I say the second part, some people might be, you're lying, But I promise I'm not. So the second part is, like, even in the midst of this, like, in general, I have such joy. I really, truly do. And I cannot say that that was true for all of my life. You know, there's definitely been seasons of my life where I think I had a more bad attitude. And I was like, God, you stink. Like, why can't I have a boyfriend? Why can't I get married? Why is everyone else getting married? I'm just as pretty as she is.

Like, I've been through all those same question.

The ringer, like, troubleshooting.

Is it this?

Is it this? Should I do this?

Like, I've definitely been through seasons in my life where I just honestly have had a stinky attitude. And, like, I mean, even I've gone so far to be like, well, I'm just gonna make this happen. And, like, I had. I mean, this was crazy. Don't do this. This is. Do not try this at home. But, like, I went through the season where I was like, I was going on, like, six different dates with six different guys all week. Like.

I'm gonna find him. It's just a numbers game, you know? And. And that was stupid. Don't do that. But but anyway, what I can say is, like, ironically, you would think, okay, wow, she's just like. It's like every day she's getting older. So you would think as I got older, I'd become, like, more anxious about this part of my life or more upset. Actually, the opposite has been true. Like, especially with going through divine time management, that process. For me, I just really have come to a place of peace. And it's not that I don't want to get married or be in a relationship or, you know, have children. I do, and I believe God will provide that for me. I very much believe so. But I love my life now. And one of my ways of focusing on my life is, you know, live your best life every day. And so that is one of the ways with my storyline. Like, I acknowledge the pain. It's not that there isn't hurt there. I mean, you obviously heard me crying a little bit before. But I also, I love my life and I love the people in my life. And I don't sit around being like, I want babies. I'm like, okay, well, I don't have babies, so how can I be around babies? I babysit other people's kids. I volunteer at the nursery at church. You know, I love my friends, I love my life. And so I think that that's. That's kind of the dual purpose of God is compassionate. He loves us, he's with us in our pain. But at the same time, I am not God. And. And whether or not I like his plan or not, actually, I kind of think it's stinky that's taking so long. He's right. He's right, and he always wins. And so I can fight that or I can surrender to it. And my final thought along with that, though, is I've really seen in my own life in the last year, I've gone through an incredible transformation as a person. I mean, so different. And even as I've been dating in this process, I see, like, how much more peaceful and calm I am in relationships. And I would say emotionally mature. Even though I tend towards the more emotionally mature, I definitely had still had some rough edges. And I thank God for the fact that I'm learning all these things prior to being married because I really see how there's a lot of ways where I could have created tension or arguments or issues in my ultimate relationship with whomever that is that I just don't think I'm going to do because of how much I've been transformed. And so every day when something like that happens. And I see my growth as a person. I'm like, that's so awesome. I get to bring that into my marriage. And we don't have to fight about that. And that brings joy.

Oh yeah. And I just love how you're giving yourself your self compassion as well and space to hold two things that you are joyful and you love your life and you still have a vision in this area and that it's okay, it's okay for those things to coexist. And I think that's true self compassion is, is not trying to whitewash your feelings and pretend that they aren't there. And it also reminds me of the Rilke quote. I'm paraphrasing but it's something to the effect of you must think that life has not forgotten you. It holds you in its hand and it will not let you fall. And I often it's, you know, I think you could look toward God the same way, which is that he hasn't forgotten you. You're on the radar and whatever amount of time it's taking is the perfect divine timing. And just like you, I can really I, I'm 34 now, but I think I'm last, last, last of all my high school or college or Google friends to get married. I don't know, I would have to work hard to think of someone.

And I stopped caring a couple years ago because as we talked, even at the beginning of this, it was too exhausting to care. And I had always had really anguished relationships, unrequited love. I was constantly vexed by relationships my entire life and now I'm in a great relationship and I ask myself the question, was it worth the wait? Was it worth the wait and all the tears and all the things. And the answer is yes. So only now I can look back and say, well, I'm glad it didn't happen a moment sooner or I'm glad that none of those other things worked out or yeah, exactly, exactly as you said, who I became in the process of surrendering and so much we talked about control. I once had a relationship coach point out to me that why I have so much fear in relationships because ultimately it boils down to control. And it was the one thing I couldn't control in my life was who I met when I met a great person or who or how that area was going to unfold. Which is very different from how we can approach career and business. Especially if you're self employed.

Yeah, for sure. And if you don't mind, I just Love to read a quote from my book that perfectly relates to what you just said. So I hear you, sister. I think this is like why we God makes us wait a little longer because he's like, girlfriends, you're gonna drive your husband's crazy if I don't work on you. So, okay, so this is page from page 193 of Divine Time Management. I love this quote. So it's under the reflection exercise, giving up control. And this is a quote from Danny Silk and a book called Keep youp Love On. It says whenever you try to get your needs met through control, you end up being controlled and addicted. You lose your freedom. You enter into bondage that prevents the pain. You are trying to self medicate from ever being healed. We were made to have our needs met through relationships with people we don't control. Love, a free choice is the only thing that will satisfy our hearts. That is why the counterfeits never live up to their promises. That is why all of us must face our fear of rejection, be healed of shame, and risk our hearts and relationships. We must be willing to offer the truth of who we are to those we love and receive the truth of who they are. Only the truth can make us free.

And even in the last week, Jenny, like, seriously, I've had multiple instances with friends in my life where I've learned a whole new level of authenticity and communication of my feelings. And I recognized that a lot of my control patterns in relationships were because I was afraid or I was hurt and I didn't know how. Like that part of me didn't have a voice. I didn't know how to articulate that. And so even seeing that growth in me, even literally in the last week, I'm like, I'm gonna do that so much better.

Totally. And I love the quote that you read and included in your book. I circled and highlighted and dog eared that page as well. As we start to wrap up, I would love to know by the time this episode comes out, your book will have been out for about six months of coming out of the closet, as you said, with this message and with putting your faith forward in your business. How is it going? I know you shared a little bit of when you started to do this with your coaching, but how has it been having the book so public? And how has this book journey been compared to your first too?

Yeah, so.

You know, this was by far the most vulnerable. So November was when the book came out, November of 2017. And there was like, you know, all this emotion leading up to it. You talked about crying every day I was there. Like, I was like, oh, my God.

I can just.

Anything can make me cry. Like, happy tears, sad tears. It's always right below my eyeball.

Yeah, I was. I was all. All the tears all the time. And so December was my recovery month. And then now, I would say, in terms of how it's going.

At the start of 2018, I just really recommitted myself to the process of getting this message out because it's really easy. So you put all this effort into this big, special project. You get it out there, and then it's really easy to slide back into your old habit pattern of what's easy and comfortable. Like, oh, I can just talk about normal time management. Like, oh, I can just do that. Like, I don't really need to push myself to keep talking about this stuff. That makes me feel more vulnerable, you know? So I really recommitted to being on podcasts, to reaching out to people, to doing more, speaking around divine time management. So I've started to do that more, which has been really fun. Also still, like, vulnerable, especially when I'm in audiences where not everyone shares the same faith. I'm like, they probably think I'm crazy, but it's okay.

And putting myself out there. And I love my core business with the time management coaching, I'm definitely continuing to do that. But right now, on a personal level, and then also definitely on a professional level, I'm exploring how do I get this out to a bigger audience, so how do I be committed to the speaking, be committed to these podcasts, be committed to consistent promotion of that instead of kind of been like, okay, I did it. Okay, now I'm going to retreat and not, like, continue to put myself out there.

I love it. And it's so true that you have the courage to publish, but then the courage to keep going is something. A fire to continue stoking.

As we leave everyone to think about everything we've shared. What is one practical or reflection exercise? Because you have so many great ones in the book that you would encourage everybody to do when they stop listening to this episode.

Yeah. So I will. I will give you one. And obviously there's a million in there, but here's the one thing that I would really encourage people to do. It's very simple, so no excuses. I'm a coach.

So I would say at the end of each day, ask yourself the question, was I authentic to myself with my time?

I'm someone that personally likes to journal, so I always Have a journal by my bed and I would write this down. You can just think about it if you prefer to do that. But at the end of each day, how about for a week so you have a time bounds there. Ask yourself, was I authentic to myself with my time? And the point behind this is I want you to start noticing your patterns. Did you say yes when you actually wanted to say no? Did you say no when you want to say yes? Did you over commit? Are you trapped in something? I'm not saying quit your job and like run away to the Himalayas. But like you know, there's simple things like maybe you're in a committee that you really hate being in. Maybe it's time to roll off. So any of those little things start to disaster yourself. Am I being authentic with your time? And then based on the answer you discover, start taking action to make those changes.

I love how we can all start with that. What a great question. We can all ask, how did I do today? Was I authentic with myself with my time? And that's steps before having to say no to things or turn things down or have those tough conversations. But to be real with ourselves. And I find it's very stress is easily to become generalized. Like there's just a crowd, a cloud of stress over my time. But what I love about this question is that we'll have us all reflect on a daily basis how did I do today? What stuck out today as a win and or as something that's kind of a thorn in my side and to learn from that by reflecting in this way. And was I authentic with myself with my time? So beautiful. Thank you. Elizabeth. Thank you so much.

You're so welcome. It's a delight to connect with you today.

Likewise. Thank you for listening to the podcast and being a great friend over all these years and for putting this message forward and having the courage to be yourself. I think beyond the subject matter of the book, you're someone who took bold steps to follow your intuition and to follow God's messages for you and to take those risks in any way is hopefully gives us all a little bit more courage to be ourselves. Thank you.

Thanks so much for watching listening to this episode of the Pivot podcast. Make sure you don't miss an episode or my insider tips and templates by signing up for PivotList, a curated twice monthly newsletter where I share the inside scoop on what I'm reading, watching, listening to and the latest tools I'm geeking out on. Sign up@pivotmethod.com pivotlist get show notes from this episode@pivotmethod.com podcast and connect with me on the Twitter at Jenny Blake.

Remember, build first, then your courage will follow. Hasn't it always.