95: Cultivate a Courage Habit with Kate Swoboda

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What's next? This is a question we're all having to ask and answer more frequently. I'm Jenny Blake, your host of the Pivot Podcast and author of Pivot. The only move that matters is your next one.

For show notes from this episode, visit pivotmethod.com podcast if Change is the only constant, then let's get better at it. Here we go.

Hello everybody. Welcome back to the Pivot Podcast. I am very excited to have Kate Swoboda here with me today. Kate and I have crossed paths many, many times online over the years, but we've never met or talked in person. She is the creator of YourCourageous Life.com director of the Courageous Living Coach certification at TribeCLCC.com and author of her brand new book the Courage Habit, how to accept your fears, release the past, and live your courageous life, which is the topic of today's show. Kate, welcome.

Thanks so much for having me. It's so great to be here.

As soon as he reached out with a book called the Courage Habit, I knew this would be a fit for the Pivot Podcast because I love talking about fear and insecurity through a different lens than what we see out there most of the time. And so right away I flip open your book and you say courage can absolutely be cultivated. It isn't something you're born with. It's a specific set of strategies you can learn and choose to practice until a courageous way of being becomes your habitual way of being. Say more about this cultivation of courage.

Yeah, so I just think that it's really cool. And this has been like the guiding, provocative question as I've looked at the research and been writing the book. So when most people talk about their experiences of fear and self doubt, they talk about those experiences in such a way that it's as if the fear, the self doubt, the lack of confidence, whatever name you want to put on it, it's all different Flavors of fear just washes over them like it feels out of control. And my, my provocative hypothesis is that it feels out of control because it's actually become a habit that has worn a groove in your brain on the level of your neuropsychology. And that if you can shift, if you understand how to recognize the fear based habits, and then you start going, okay, I'm going to interrupt the habit loop and I'm going to start practicing courage based habits. What if when life's challenges come up and you feel fear, you could interrupt going into the behaviors that actually don't get you where you want to go and instead go, whoo, I know this fear feeling. Let me instead pivot, to use a word that I know you're a fan of.

Nice product placement.

Thank you. Right there. Instead pivot to courage based behaviors. And so I started researching what are the behaviors that research says.

Are the behaviors that boost confidence or that build resilience. And there were four primary behaviors that really emerged. And, you know, you can practice just one of them, but all four together are really, really freaking powerful. And I call all four of them together the courage habit.

Amazing. I would love to hear what they are.

Oh, yeah, totally.

It's the best. I joke with people. I'm like, do you hang out on a Friday night on Google Scholar looking at the research abstracts? You're missing out. Like, it's a riveting Friday night. So, okay, so the four behaviors that really we need to integrate into our lives to practice more courage and to have that as our default way of responding to the fear that we feel are accessing the body, listening without attachment, reframing, limiting stories, and reaching out to create community. And I can go into each of those, but usually I like to try to talk to people a little bit too about how we typically try to deal with fear so that people can see where the shift really needs to occur. And so that is where I talk about when we're feeling afraid. There are really three predominant things that people want to do to try to deal with fear. So they want to ignore it, avoid it. You know, sometimes you want to please it or placate it. Like, if I can just do life in exactly the right way, the fear won't come up. And then otherwise they will try to attack it. And that's where we start getting into kicking fear's ass, telling fear to f off, you know, all the. Yeah, yeah, it's. It's not because it ends up just practicing abuse, like the fear itself when it's especially when that internalized critical voice is really gnarly and nasty. Usually we've learned that voice from someone else, right, who was practicing a conditioned behavior that they learned from someone else and then they learned from someone else and on down the line. But when we, when we try to deal with our fear by avoiding it, pleasing it or attacking it, what ends up happening is we never really deal with the source of the problem and we're constantly trying to outrun fear. And so what I'm talking about is there is no fearless, you're never gonna disaster proof your life. And if you go after something that's really meaningful to you, you're going to have your oh my God, what am I doing Moments over and over and over.

And so how do you, when you have those moments, go, instead of ignoring, I'm gonna access the body instead of placating and going into perfectionism so my fear won't come up. How do I listen without attachment what my fear is saying and do something different? Instead of attacking myself for feeling afraid, how about I reach out and create community so there are all these places where you can notice what's happening and then go to a behavior that's more helpful.

I thought that was so powerful. And by the way, Kate in the book, she calls it, these are fear response modes, but also our inner critic response modes. And I've never heard someone break it down like that on the inner critic specifically. But a lot of coaching language is. And I remember someone said to me 10 years ago when I was going through coach training, you have a fierce inner critic. And I remember feeling so bad, like I had this bad enemy alien living inside of me and it was so mean, you know, and it just immediately I became afraid of it and I made this part of myself wrong. And you. So these response modes of avoiding, pleasing or attacking, it's so interesting because even people who are self aware, we often fall into one of these three things with regard to our inner critic. So even if we know our fear, but the inner critic comes up and we, we do these behaviors. And so I love the strategy, especially listening without attachment, that rather than avoiding pleasing or attacking, can we listen to it? Can we invite it to the conversation and just ask what's up? Doesn't mean we have to take action exactly as it's instructing or stop what we're doing to please it. But I just love how you, you share these behaviors and give, give a solution.

It's really interesting because I mean this is not just, I should say this Is not just like, woo, woo, life coach talk. Okay? This is. There are numerous psychotherapeutic modalities that employ versions of what I'm talking about here that have been tested with different populations. Dialectical behavior therapy, acceptance and commitment therapy, narrative therapy, cognitive behavioral therapy. So there are. There are these habitual ways that we respond to our fear. And you know, I talk about in particular for fear patterns. And they all tie to. Please share these.

I loved these.

Oh, yeah, they all tie to avoid. And yes, one of my favorite realizations was realizing that whatever fear pattern someone has, their inner critic, the words they hear in their head tend to align with that. So there are four predominant fear patterns. We all do them. I do them. I'm going to go out on a limb and say you do them. But one of them usually hooks us a little more than the others. And the point of power that we want to think about here is about how fast we notice and how fast we change to noticing. Oh, I'm starting to get hooked by this pattern and into something different. So the four predominant fear patterns that I see are perfectionism. I'm like, raise your hand if that one's yours. Raising my hand over here.

Which is your garden variety. Like hustle, hustle, hustle. Trying to be beyond judgment, as Brene Brown calls it. There's people pleasing and martyrdom. So that is constantly putting everybody else's needs in front of yours. Like everybody else gets their place in line before you get to go after what you want. I don't want to be selfish. This can be something that can impact moms where they feel like they can't do the things they want to for themselves because it would somehow deprive their kids. This can happen for people changing careers who still want to be the star employee at their old career that they know they're going to leave. Because it's really, really hard to, like, not be the person who stays late or takes on the extra task from your boss. There's pessimism, which is that kind of like womp, womp, like wet blanket. There's just never enough time, never enough money, never enough friends, never enough ability. You know, comparisonitis. Well, they've already done it better than me, so what's the point? And then there's self sabotage. And technically, yes, all of the three things I've already mentioned are self sabotage in some form. But with this nuance of self sabotage, I'm really talking about procrastination, shiny object syndrome that keeps you from being able to be focused.

And the kinds of things where, like, something just. Just gets so intimidating that you don't set yourself up for the success you need. So, you know, deciding I want to, you know, have a new career and you have no savings and you quit your job tomorrow and you're like, I'm just gonna make it work. And it's like, you haven't built yourself a Runway for this new career to take flight. Like, that's, you know, it's. It's a well intentioned, follow your bliss kind of move. And that's great, but it, it's rooted in self sabotage because you haven't paved the way to actually set yourself up for success. So when those patterns are coming up, they totally fit into the ways that we commonly try to avoid, please or attack with fear. So, like, self sabotage and pessimism can be primary avoidance moves. You know, people pleasing and martyrdom totally go into, like, placating your fear. Perfectionism could be placating your fear as well. Like, if I just do it perfect enough, I won't feel afraid. And attacking your fear can show up in any of those. Just in particular, I think it shows up with pessimism of like, well, you know, what's the point? Or who do you think you are? You know, stuff like that. And our critic voices inside mirror that.

I also find that falling into one often leads to the next. So if I'm going unconsciously going into martyr mode, I'll become more pessimistic or cranky or something will start to happen where I'm like, why am I in such a horrible mood today? Or why am I being so judgy? Let's say perfectionist and judgment. So New York City is a great place to live because some days I walk down the street, I'm like, humanity is so beautiful. The streets are so crowded. And I'm like, I live in the center of the world. And then other times I notice a really judgmental voice like, what is she wearing? What is this guy doing? And it probably directly ties to my perfectionism scale or the way that I'm treating myself that day or that week. And these four fear routines, which I love how you've outlined it. It reminds me of the drama triangle. I don't know if you've heard of this, but I learned about it from my mentor, Michael Bungay Stanier. And it's three points of the triangle. Perpetrator, victim, and rescuer. And that oftentimes we get hooked into these unhealthy patterns where someone's the bad guy. We're the victim and we're looking to be rescued. Or someone thinks, oh, that person's in trouble, I can rescue them, and this is the bad guy and that no one is that healthy. Like, when we're hooked into this triangle, it's very easy to flip flop and take these different roles and ultimately it's not a healthy integration.

Oh, I love that. And he does such great work. I interviewed him ages and ages ago and he was just like an absolute delight and hilarious.

I know. He's so smart and so funny. Michael Bungay sr. His latest book is the Coaching Habit. For any of you who are interested.

Mm.

One of the fear responses that you touched on a tiny bit in these four, but I found very interesting was a more subtle fear which took the form of hiding out. That instead of that heart thumping, gut dropping fear that we're totally aware of, sometimes we go into this subtle hiding and we might not even realize it's not the blaring alarm fear, it's just this undercurrent that keeps us from taking courageous steps. Can you speak more about this habit of hiding out?

Well, the hiding out I talked about the most in the chapter on reaching out and creating community. Because we, we can hide out from ourselves for sure. But nowhere do we hide out more than when, like, someone else might see us but fail or flail. Right? And so, okay, so there's this, this, this cue routine reward loop in the brain, which is controlled by the basal ganglia. And I think of the basal ganglia as being like the project manager of the brain. Like, all this stuff is coming in, you hear things, you see things, you experience things, things happen. And your basal ganglia is going, oh, I've seen this before. Here's how we handle this. Like, so you start feeling stressed, basal ganglia goes, here's what we do when we feel stressed. And you know, for some people, especially when these fear patterns are running on autopilot, it's, you're stressed, you got a book launch happening, let's go into some perfectionism, make more to do lists, try to control it, you know, and the cue of fear goes into the routine of perfectionism to get you the temporary reward. And that temporary reward in a case like perfectionism is, at least in my case especially, is like feeling more in control. And it's not in service to my larger life vision of what I want for a book launch or for anything. But in the moment it feels just a tiny bit better. And hiding out behaviors, I think really tend to do with the visibility piece of things. And that's super tricky. And so I talk about in the book, ways that people hide out that are more subtle, like trying to hide parts of who you are that you worry others won't accept. So it could be your sexuality. It could be a creative longing. It could be not really letting people know just how sad you get when things really fail. So it's not being seen.

It could also be isolation during times that are really, really difficult. It can take on the form of not ever, like, control that goes to extremes. And one of the extremes that I offer an example of in the book is alcohol. So, like, you never touch alcohol because you want to make sure that you totally and completely stay in control when you're in front of other people. Or, like, you need alcohol and you have to be a party girl in order to, like, at all let yourself relax and connect. So you have to go to one extreme or the other. And with hiding out, I think that it becomes a vicious cycle. So we start hiding out, and then that erodes our ability to really trust ourselves.

Because here we are. It's a kind of betrayal, right? Like, I know that I'm this person who has this longing or this is my sexuality, or this is. I'm, you know, I'm this person who's afraid to be seen by others. And so I'm hiding it out. I'm dulling my flame. I stopped trusting myself because I've been the first person to betray myself. I haven't even waited for criticism from someone else. I've gone ahead and assumed the worst. And then because I've been hiding out, it becomes harder for me to get out of hiding out. And the thing just keeps repeating itself. Because now, especially when you start talking about integrating other people and hiding out with other people, now they've seen a false version of you. And then in one's head, it's usually along the lines of, well, they've never known this part of me. I don't want to suddenly show up differently. I don't want to. You know, the intimidation factor just goes up. And so I think that one of the things that we have to do, and this is why the courage habit process pulls together in the way that it does, is really start with accessing the body. You know, the courage habit process. So it's access the body. Listen, without attachment, reframe, limiting stories, reach out and create community. When you access the body and you're going, okay, I know what it feels like when I hide out. Maybe I numb. Maybe I get super tense. Then that starts becoming the signal you pay attention to and the place where you go. This is where I start to trust myself again. I know what this signal means. It means I am hiding out. It means that I want to pay attention to that flag and use it as an opportunity to be present and then do something different.

I love when you talk about accessing the body, which is so important. You say you can't logic your way through. And I really love that section of the book because this comes up for me most prominently in relationships that that will trigger really just reptile brain fears that I have certain, certain things and I cannot logic my way through in those times. In those moments I know logically what's rational to be afraid of or what's not or. But there's nothing logical about what goes on in a, in a triggering moment. I think there's, there's like low grade fear that we've been talking about. But especially when fear we can notice. We can tune into the body and notice. I just love that you spoke to that, that you can logically know whatever you want. But that doesn't mean like you, you still can't get away from accessing the body and listening. Otherwise you're probably not going to get the full picture of how to move forward.

Yeah. And it's so. I think it's so great too to separate, you know, fear happens in the body so we got to deal with it in the body. We can't logic our way through. And I think it's really great to pull apart the experience because isn't that what's so difficult about those moments when we are totally in compare and despair, totally lacking self confidence, recovering from a rejection or a failure is that it's not just a thought. It's like we're thinking things, we're feeling things. It's all happening all at once. And it's like, okay, hold on, let me pull this apart. Let me just like dial into the tightness in my chest and just breathe with that. Or wherever fear shows up for someone in their body. That's just an example. Let's just like stop trying to deal with all the things I'm thinking and all the things I'm feeling all at the same time.

Attend to the fact that when I'm in fear or when I'm having a serious moment of doubt or lacking confidence, there's a bodily care that needs to happen first. And accessing the body can look a lot of different ways. I mean personally for me, I will Regularly consciously cry, which I know sounds crazy to most people, but I'm trying to tell more people about it to get the word out that it's not nuts.

By which I mean that, you know, when I see all these, you know, just insane things that are happening in our world and politically, and it all feels like too much and natural disasters, like, I'm really clear that who I want to be and how I want to use courage to create a better world is about speaking up and out and taking action and trying to help expose people to ideas that I think culturally are going to benefit all of us and benefit the collective. And if I get so overwhelmed by what I see happening on Facebook that I'm just like, I just can't even be on Facebook. It's too overwhelming, then how am I going to, like, sort of do my little part to let people know, like, these are the things that our world is facing? So that for me, a conscious crying practice is, like, you know, making some space in my office. Nobody's ever around when I do it. It is a private practice for me and playing, like, the saddest songs that I know. I have a playlist and, like, box of tissues, and I just think of the things that I know are hitting those notes for me, and I'll cry it out. And it's just like a meditation. Breathing and looking at the wall. Set a timer. I cry it out. I stop. I take some time to do, like, kind of some of the happier stuff, like stretch or kind of dance in my office or have a laugh sess.

And then it's like, I can breathe again. And it's really similar to, like, if you've ever had a really good cry. And, like, once you had a good cry, you feel like, okay, all right. I, like, needed that. That's what it's like. And it empowers you to move through some of those feelings.

This is amazing. How often do you set time aside for this just as needed, or is it on a regular basis?

So it is one of those practices that full transparency. Of course, I resist in terms of, like, I don't resist it in the way that I used to. I used to be like, I don't want to do that, but I'll resist it in that way. That's super sneaky, where I'm like, okay, I'm make some space for my conscious crying. And then, oh, gosh, would you look at that? The day went by, and I got to go pick up my kid from daycare, and, like, there's just no time. Oh, look at that. So when I notice that happening, what I'll do is I'll introduce. Intentionally block off, like, three days in a row to be, like, legit on it, and then other than that, it's as needed. And for me, the number one signal that I need to do it is I'm snippy. So if it's like, if my husband overcooks the broccoli and I'm sitting there grousing about, like, the broccoli is all mushy, you know, of course, not even taking the moment to be grateful that I have a partner who freaking cooks dinner while I'm doing something else. You know, when I get into that grouse y place, that's when it's like, all right, I need to do this. Like, I need to do this. This is, you know, to use the metaphor that I most love to use, my emotional balloon is full. And when a literal balloon is too full, it will either explode or it will leak air. And so, like, sarcasm, snippiness, and grousing to me is like the leaking and then, of course, exploding. We all know what that's like where, you know, somebody's just completely stressed out and they just lose it.

You mentioned your daughter. I can imagine that parenting has been its own enormous teacher in regards to all these topics and especially on the subject of courage and fear, that, as I hear so many parents say, although I'm not one myself, that, like, your heart is running around outside of your body. How do you manage the courage habit as a parent, knowing that you. You really don't have full control over what your daughter is doing 24 7.

Yeah. Oh, it's. It's a super tough one. I'll quickly say that habit formation, if you do have a kid, will change your freaking life. Because we set up cue routines rewards for her around things like bedtime.

Can you give us an example?

Bedtime. So, like, like, people in parent, in parenting, people talk about routines in a different way than. Than we're talking about them here. They'll talk about, oh, the importance of a nighttime routine. And my husband and I had that with our daughter, or we thought we did, and she would, you know, every night was just a. I don't know if I can say bad words on this podcast. I'll say a crap show. How about that?

And so basically, once I started learning more about habit formation, it was like, okay, no, no, no, no. Q. Is this. So she gets to watch, you know, a little show like Sesame street or Sophia the first or whatever before bed. And it used to be that, like, she'd watch Sophia the first, and then we'd say, let's go do. Go do, brush your teeth. And then if she kind of stopped and said, oh, I want to look at my little toy, mommy, or, you know, can I have a drink? Or, you know, can we go do. And I'd try to be accommodating about it because I was thinking, oh, yeah, and then after this, we're gonna go brush the teeth. No.

No, not with a two year. It's like, no, you do not pass go. You do not collect $200. You go, you get up from Sophia the first, and you go brush your teeth. And then brushing teeth becomes the next cue for the next reward, which is you get bedtime stories. And if there's no whining, crying, and otherwise delay tactics, you can earn a second bedtime story instead of only having one. And then as soon as bedtime stories are over again, same thing. You do not, you know, pass, go and collect $200. It is like, you do not delay. It is. You are walking straight into bed, and this is, you know, the deal. And then in her room, it was, you know what it was? Discovering for a reward? Disney audiobooks. Like, listening to Disney audiobooks. She's like, I will totally get into my bed. And this has been going on for over a year, so it's not a fluke.

So that's what we did. And now going to bed for her is like, you're going to bed. And yeah, sure. Sometimes there's a night where she doesn't want to go to bed or cries out while she's in her room is like, I won't want to go to bed. And it's just like, we're just like, you're going to bed. Like, it is just like, this is the habit, and we are reinforcing that groove. And these days, she walks into her room on her own without being prodded. It's pretty amazing. So there's that. Parenting a kid from a courageous perspective.

Super tough to do, especially in the current parenting culture, which, from my point of view, there are a lot of theories out there about how to parent kids in certain ways. And I, I, I chafe at a lot of them in particular, because they're not actually based in research about brain development. Like, there's.

Give us an example of one.

I won't, I won't name the theory because there, because if I do, then, like, like, there I'm gonna get, like, so much crap for it. But like, there's this theory that is used at my daughter's preschool and it's used very well intentioned and it does work, I suppose, for some kids. But it's basically this thing about like, you try never to say no and instead always try to focus on yes and for some kids. And you talk to kids a lot about choices. And I'm like, that's awesome. Except especially around the age of two now my daughter's going to be four, so it's a little bit different. But especially around the age of two, the frontal lobe development and the ability to predict into the future and outside of the present moment, it's like not even there yet. Like it's not there yet. So my belief is that when a kid is hitting you actually instead of going, oh, could you do this instead? Distraction, you need to actually go, this is the role. There's no hitting. Like, I'm not saying yell and scream and shame children. Of course not. But like, this is the role. There's no hitting. And if you do it again, there will be a consequence. And it's gonna, you're gonna go have a little timeout. Not a shaming timeout, not you stick your nose in the corner, but like, you just, you have to separate and take a breather kind of timeout. So, you know, any philosophy about disciplining children or teaching children behavior that is not recognizing the fact that, you know, a two year old doesn't have yet the brain development to predict the outcome of their choices. You know, two year olds are very like, in the moment for me, is not a parenting philosophy that I'm, that I'm down with. And it creates issues. Like sometimes at my daughter's school, she doesn't want to do what they're asking and there's no consequence. And she just keeps upping the ante. She's testing her limits and testing her boundaries. And it's. They told me this thing one day about.

And if I'm going on and on about this, feel free to cut this out later. They told me this thing one day about how she didn't want to help pick up the room. And she kept refusing. So they sent her over to this cozy corner with a bunch of books and stuffed animals. And then they finished up the room and I'm just. And they're like telling me over and over she won't help with cleaning up and picking up the room. And I'm sitting here like, well, yeah, she's game in the system. People like you tell her to do something, she doesn't want to do it. You send her over to stuffies and books, she's not going to listen to you. Like at home, when I tell her she needs to clean something up, does she sometimes drag her heels? Of course she does. But she knows if she doesn't do it, she's going to go sit in time out and I'm not going to scream. But there's a consequence if you don't do what mom says. Courageous parenting, I think, has a lot to do with.

For most moms, not going into martyrdom and people pleasing and recognizing that children need to develop resilience. And with a lot of parenting theories out there right now, what I see is instead of saying, this is not okay for you to do and you need to choose a different behavior, there's distraction and going, oh, let me redirect you. But children actually need to feel, in my opinion, the consequences of their behavior. The like, hey, I lost out on that because I didn't communicate, I didn't cooperate with the community that I'm in. They need to feel that and feel those feelings and then develop the resilience to see that they can feel those feelings and that it's okay to be on the other side of them.

You mentioned the cue routine reward system for your daughter. I made me curious. What's one of your, like, let's say a morning routine cue routine reward. What are the three? And I know you referenced Charles Duhigg's Power of Habit in this arena, but. And I've, I have the book. I've never actually read it, but, like, for me, I wake up, I have a cup of tea, and when the tea is finished, then I meditate. So I'm guessing that's the cue. And then, yeah, cue. What is the cue? Routine routine meditation. And the reward is I get to fill the tea again and read again.

And there are cues within cues, right? Like, one cue is cueing. The next thing, waking up cues, the T and T cues, the meditation. And then. Yeah, okay, so morning routines for me tend not to even really exist until my daughter is out for the day. So she's, she's, she goes to school and she's almost in kindergarten. And, you know, so when, when I do have a morning routine, usually it's, it's coming back and it's enjoying the sound of like, a quiet house with no one there. I love my daughter. I would jump in front of a car to save her life. And as a human being, what I need is like, Alone time. And that's part of what I need to be a good mom. And having coffee and usually I've got books everywhere and it's like, how do I just before I get into work or to dos or tasks, how do I get into some time to just be totally divorced from that and just be in a space of just thought and inquiry? Because I find that the mornings are very contemplative for me. Like that's the time when I'm thinking about the world or life or a friend or you know, hanging out with you today and what kind of cool conversation we'll have. So it's really loose and open, but it usually doesn't start until I'm alone in the house.

I love the way you describe the quiet house. It's one of my favorite things too is just when I find those pockets of total silence. And that reminds me of the last thing I want to get into before we start to wrap up. But I love some of the, you know, we've talked so much about fear and some of the habits. But you have some great coaching exercises, of course, because you're Kate Courageous.

Especially the Liberated Day exercise. Tell us about the Liberated Day exercise.

Okay, so, yeah, so like the whole book is patterned after how I would work with a coach if I was working with them in one on one sessions. And in coaching, coaches work in different ways. But it is pretty typical that in coaching it's like you're going to initially set some kind of focus or goal or say, here's what I want for myself. And then, and as the resistance starts to arise inevitably on the journey, then you start employing strategies to try to have an intervention. And the Liberated Day is all about really getting in touch with your most courageous self. And your most courageous self is the person that you would be the way of being. So it's not a doing, it's not a to do list. Plenty of people jump out of airplanes and do all kinds of death defying stuff and then maybe like in their lives aren't necessarily like emotionally courageous or open hearted or you know, I'm talking about that level of courage. I'm talking about 100% fully alive living as a courageous act. So, you know, the Liberated Day is about let's just throw reality asunder. And if you woke up and your entire day went exactly the way you wanted it to go, what would that day look like? Like just write it out, you know, how are you waking up? What are you thinking about when you wake up? What's your, your way of being and then moving into. What kind of work do you want to be doing or not doing? You know, who are you connecting with? How does your life connect with a purpose that's larger than you? What are the passion projects? Where are you living? And there are all these work sheets that come with the courage habit that extrapolate on some of these questions. And the idea is that based on this liberated day, writing this out, okay, you might never have, like, a day that's 24 7. You go from one to the other, but these little things will kind of zing at you. And I gave this example in the book of Shay, a yoga instructor. I mean, technically speaking, all names and identifying details have been changed because coaching relationships are confidential. But in the kind of case study I give, it's Shay, and she's a yoga instructor, and she does her liberated day exercise. And this little zing comes to her when she starts thinking about just kind of what she's wearing. And this zing is around a moto jacket, like, this badass moto jacket. And that becomes this interesting opening for her of going, you know, kind of not being myself in yoga. Like, I'm adopting this, like, namaste and kind of breathy and. Because I think that's how yoga instructors are supposed to be. But who I think I really am, who my most courageous self is, is like a little kind of feisty, a little kind of in the yoga room going, you know what? Don't back off from that pose that intimidates you. Try it. You know, I'm not saying injure yourself, but try it. You know, don't back down. And that's not how any yoga instructor she had been around had ever been. So the liberated day exercise with just going full tilt. Don't even try to be realistic. Here's who I am and what I want and how I want it to be. You read it over later, and it's like, what are the things that make you go, ooh, that would make me feel really fully alive? And from there, you start going, what do I want my primary focus to be? And these are the things that I'd like to work on during the entire duration of the courage habit. And I find it really exciting to think that somebody could finish the book and literally start the book going, I want this for my life, but don't have it yet, and finish the book and go, wow. These things that I said I wanted, these three that I narrow or five that I narrowed it down to, I have, like, I'm on my way this is happening.

Absolutely. And to do it with this courageous habit forming and with that spirit I love. The reason I love Deliberate a day. I have one that's very similar called the Ideal Day Mad Lib, where people can fill in the blanks. And by the way, I'll put links to both of these in the show notes. But I liked yours because, for example, I don't prompt. With the Ideal Day exercise, I don't prompt. If you were your most all out, authentic, courageous self, how would you go through your day? And that was very powerful for me to think about. Not just what am I doing, but exactly as you just said, how are you being what is going through your mind? Like, if I were to eliminate all those micro moments of people pleasing like that alone, I could probably craft a Liberated day that just removed that. Like, I think today in my hazy morning sleep, I was kind of dreaming about my email inbox. Like in my dreams I was already worried about who needed a response, you know, So I love the awareness around Liberated Day. Not just, again, not just the activities and not just oh wow, I would go jump out of planes or some uber courageous seeping act from the outside, but what it feels like from the inside and even on a micro level from thing to thing to thing.

Yeah, I mean, it's got to be about our way of being, right? Like it can't be just. I mean, especially because I, you know, I start the book talking about, you know, I mean, this, this whole sort of fork in the road in my life came from sitting in a meeting at work for the gazillionth time more than a decade ago and suddenly realizing, I don't want to be here and if you had asked me to just go, what do you want to do with your life? Well, that question, answering that question with I want to have this job and I want to get this promotion and da da da was exactly what had landed me right there. I had ticked off all the boxes. It was my way of being that that was not working as well. And I would imagine you meet a lot of people who I meet who are the women who like, they're really smart, they know how to make a to do list and hustle and get stuff done. The problem is that there's this self help hamster wheel or to do list hamster wheel of constantly trying to do more things and doing is great. I don't knock it. And I think it's great to do things in your life and action will be required, but your way of being is the primary place where the shift takes place.

How did finishing the book. And now as you enter the launch phase, are you shifting anything around how you're being and. And as fears come up around launching this book that maybe you wouldn't have done even prior to writing it?

Well, for sure I'm having to watch the perfectionism hustle thing because it is so.

Still, like, it's so there around the things I want the most. Right. Like when we want it more than anything, you know, of course I want the book to be a success. Of course words like, you know, bestseller in your category and on Amazon, like, flit through my head. Of course they do. They do for every writer. And anyone who says differently, I'm like, I don't know.

So it's been a lot of that. And then.

I think too, it's been really interesting to notice discomfort with visibility.

And by that I just mean, I mean, saying it out loud to you, it's like, what are you worried about, Kate? Like, like, this is not. I'm not even remotely worried if I just speak it out loud. But when I am hungry, angry, lonely or tired, you know, the HALT acronym.

I start, it's easy to go into this place of like, like, oh my God, I feel really seen. It's going to be really intimidated, intimidating. If I go to a, if I go to a book, a book tour stop and nobody shows up. God, that's gonna be so embarrassing. You know, like, this stuff comes up and how I'm doing it is, is. I mean, I really try to take my own medicine. It's like, okay, I can go into the four fear patterns. I have a choice. And if I'm going to be sovereign in my life, over my life, and if I'm going to live a life that's intentional and, you know, I can go into these four fear patterns by default and hide out, or I can go, I know what this work is going to be. And it's going to be the four part process of the courage habit. I actually called a good my best friend last weekend and.

You know, said to her, I just feel like I'm really struggling right now. And.

I don't even know what I'm struggling with. I can't even articulate it. What in the world. I feel like something's crazy and overwhelming. And then I go, what's really wrong here? And I'm like, I can handle it. And she said to me, actually, so what would be the opposite of your. She's a coach, of course. Right?

I was just Gonna say, she sounds like a coach. She sounds like something I would say.

Of course, my best friend's a coach.

Yeah.

She goes, what would be the opposite of your usual pattern? And it was like such a great, you know, it's reaching out and creating community, calling her. That's what that is. And you know, I said, well, it would be to emphasize pleasure over doubling down on work to try to feel more in control of the feelings. And she was like, well, there you go. Valerie tooks everyone her holistichealth.com I love it.

I know sometimes it's the most counterintuitive thing like rest or creating some self care day or. I told you before we hit record, one of the things I advise authors with a book coming out is look a month post launch and block off two weeks from your schedule where you don't take a single meeting. And it's very counterintuitive. But I can tell you right now if you can do it, you'll be so grateful to your past self. And I love that question of just what's the opposite of the usual response.

So if you could leave listeners with one piece of homework. Because I'm a coach too, so.

Right. We love the homework. I know the homework.

I love like one easy next step. What would you have them do?

I so my favorite thing is to put out there. Believe in the power of five minutes. So we often think when we want to shift something that we've got to overhaul or make over our lives or we think it's got to be this big thing. You know, maybe somebody's even like, I'm really excited about the liberated day exercise, but also totally intimidated. So it's like, okay, how about we just dial it back and believe in the power of five minutes? Spend five minutes, go look up the Fitness Marshall on YouTube. His videos are fantastic. For five minutes, watch and even try to do one of his videos. Just try it. 5 minutes or 5 minutes reach out to a friend or 5 minutes listen without attachment to what your fear is saying. Okay, I got you fear. We're gonna reframe that limiting story by just saying, look, we're going to do the best we can. Like stop trying to make it. Everything in my life is going to be different tomorrow and just go to five minutes because most people do not need more on their to do list. So just start with that and believe in the power of five minutes.

So well said, Kate. Thank you so much for being here. Where can people find you if they want to keep in touch and learn more about you and these worksheets and the book.

So couragehabit.com will take you straight to the book, you Courageous life.

My coach training is@tribeclcc.com and most everywhere. I'm Kate Courageous. Except for on Facebook where I'm facebook.comyourcorgeous life.

Amazing. Thank you again, Kate.

Yeah, thank you so much for having me. It's been wonderful.

Likewise.

Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the Pivot Podcast. Make sure you don't miss an episode or my insider tips and templates by signing up for Pivot List, a curated twice monthly newsletter where I share the inside scoop on what I'm reading, watching, listening to, and the latest tools I'm geeking out on. Sign up@pivotmethod.com pivotlist get show notes from this episode@pivotmethod.com podcast and connect with me on Twitter ennyblake.

Remember, build first, then your courage will follow. Hasn't it always.