Drug Addicted Pro Skateboarder Gets Filled with The Holy Spirit | @JayHaizlip

I got hired to play the main character in a music video for a band.

Mm-hmm.

We were supposed to show up in downtown LA to film a scene for this video. I didn't go to sleep. I'd been up all night. I showed up super high on cocaine. I'm sitting at home one night on a Saturday night by myself. My wife and son, they were going somewhere, and all of a sudden this presence came into the room. And it was evil. It was dark. And I literally felt it hover over me. And the thought entered my mind, why don't you go score? Here's how you can do it. Nobody will know. You can drive back home. You can still go to church tomorrow.

So it's kind of cool because this is the first podcast here. Yeah, number one. So it all really worked out well, you being here.

Yep.

What do you think of the Texas weather?

Texas weather? Well, when I walked outside my hotel this morning, I was greeted by overwhelming sensation of humidity. But it's nice.

I thought you said humility.

So when you have hair like mine and it encounters humidity, It creates humility.

There you go. There's a sermon in there somewhere.

Yeah, I preach that.

You know, I'd love to actually know your background. You came from Alabama, you know, and skating. How important was skating in your life at that time of your life? This is pre-salvation.

Oh yeah, skating was everything.

Yeah.

I mean, it wasn't— for me, skating wasn't a hobby. It wasn't a sport. It was a lifestyle.

Yeah.

So my mother gave me a skateboard for Christmas around 10. And that literally lit a fire in me. Everything about my identity was immersed in the skate culture. I carried a skateboard to school, my pants or my shirt, my shoes, skaters, right?

Yeah.

Carried Thrasher magazines. That was my life. And that literally paved the pathway for Everything I did and started getting sponsored. And then when I moved to California, all the guys I was looking at in the magazines—they became my best friends. Wow! And began to get sponsored by those people. So yeah, that's my whole life. I wouldn't be here today without it.

Geez! I I have to know. I have to know. Where did the nickname Jay Alabama Alabama Alabama slip? That is an interesting nickname.

Yeah. So I was born in Alabama. A lot of my friends, especially in the skate world, they don't even know my real last name. They just Alabama, right? People call me Jay Alabama, Jay Alabama. Some people say Alabama Jay. But I was born in Alabama and I lived part of my life there and went back and forth between Alabama and California. I've lived more of my life now in California than In Alabama, but that's how it just stuck.

So just for some context here, you were talking about the people you would look at in magazines. Are there any names that some of our viewers might recognize?

Well, all those guys that were like in the documentary and a movie called Lords of Dogtown, right?

Oh, wow.

I love that movie.

Yeah. So all those guys are my friends, right? When I was 16, I moved. My mom kicked me out of my house. Kicked me out of her house, you know, and I got kicked out when I was 16. So I moved in with Tony Alva. Oh, wow, that's crazy. I lived with Tony, his dad, and his brother. Wow, that's crazy. And then Jay Adams, you know, Jay Adams, he's now in heaven, but I'm his daughter's— or yeah, his daughter's godparent.

Wow.

My wife and I, he was part of our church in the last part of his life, and So his wife is good friends with us. So all those guys are my friends, right? And then of course my best friend is Christian Hosoi and he's the best in the world or was for a long, long time.

So you're in the skate scene. Walk me through now what begins to happen in terms of things that got very dark.

Yeah. So my mother was 15 when I was born and I love my mother. She did the best that she could with where she was at, with what she knew and then when I was somewhere around the age of 5, my cousins because the hippie culture wasn't a— I didn't grow up in a commune but probably one step away from that type of environment.

Hmm.

So my mother would take me into these environments where she would never herself give me alcohol or drugs but other people did. So when I was 5, that was probably the first time I ever remember getting drunk and I didn't become an alcoholic overnight. I didn't start drinking all the time but that was my first exposure and then by the time I was 12, I was carrying a bag of dope on me all the time.

Wow.

I would go to these parties, right, with my mother and I'm this kid and I would scope out the party and I remember going into a bedroom And there literally was a regular-sized trash can filled with drugs.

Whoa.

And so I'm just like, take handfuls of drugs, right? I'm probably 12. And so there was that. I grew up in that kind of environment. Then fast forward, we're living in California. My mother moved out here so I could pursue skating. I'm already sponsored and stuff like that. I was living in Newport. skating on the boardwalk and there was an older lady that lived in a nice house right on the boardwalk. She called me over. She said, hey Jay, you want to get high? And I'd gotten high with her before and, you know, we'd drink wine sometimes, smoke pot, weed and she chopped out a line of cocaine and said, here, snort this. And I remember thinking to myself, hmm, what could be so wrong with this, right?

Right.

Here's a Seemingly well-to-do lady, multimillion-dollar house, offered me something. I'm already partying and I snorted that first line of cocaine and that began a journey where I ended up becoming a major drug addict. Didn't happen overnight but for 12 years cocaine owned me. It became my master. I was a slave to it.

How old were you again when that first happened? 15 years old. Did your mom know this was happening or was she kind of just maybe in one way lying to herself saying, it's not as bad as it might look?

Well, I did. My mother never to the level that I would party. I never partied to that level with my mom but there was a certain point where I did start doing drugs with my mother and stuff and she went on to become a very successful last half of her career, CEO of a hospital. And but I would do drugs with her, you know, smoke pot primarily, but there were times I did cocaine with her.

Okay, so what was like the turning point then? Because to start that young, to go through all that, that would take a miracle to turn things around. When was that salvation experience?

So I'd moved to Hollywood. I was living in Hollywood, and just because of skating, my relationships and everything, And I would get opportunities that were connected to who I was and I'd blow them off. I wouldn't show up because I wanted to do drugs or I'd stayed up all night.

So definitely then you would've been further along in a skateboarding career had you not been addicted to drugs.

Skateboarding and all the other little opportunities that branch off from that. I got hired to play the main character in a music video for a band. And I went out like one night after we got through filming and did cocaine all night long. The next morning, we were supposed to show up in downtown LA to film a scene for this video. I didn't go to sleep. I'd been up all night. I showed up super high on cocaine.

Wow.

And they take after take. I mean, obviously they got very frustrated. We saw what it takes to even just make this happen, right?

Hmm.

And so I started blowing it big time like that, or just not even showing up for things. And then I knew, I reached a point I knew my life is falling apart. I can't get it together. And I went back to Alabama. I moved in with my grandparents thinking if I can just escape this world, my friends, the people that I'm hanging out with, I can get my life together. But that didn't work. I started to have my drug connection ship me drugs from California to Alabama and I started dealing in Alabama.

Wow, man.

And but there came a point where I know what led to this point. I'm sure there were people praying for me that I don't know about. But there came this point where voluntarily I'd been trying to change my life and I came out of a treatment center and I went out and used all weekend cocaine.

Right after coming out of the treatment center?

Right after coming out. I'd been in there for like 30 days and I put myself there because I wanted to change and I just didn't— nobody ever told me about Jesus, David. I don't remember anybody telling me Jesus can change your life. And I came home on a Sunday morning, been up all night, and I started just— it was like reality confronted me in a way I'd never had reality confront me because at this point, Christy and I, we had been married for 2 years. My son was still an infant in diapers, and it was just like hit me in the face. that you're— I can't do— I wanted to be a good husband. I wanted to be a good dad, but it was just, I was a failure at it.

Wow.

And I saw my son was completely dependent upon me. And in that moment, I broke and I cried and I said, God, if you're real, please, why won't you help me? I was begging God to help me. And I can look back on that moment and I went to sleep and I shouldn't have been able to go to sleep that easy because of the amount of cocaine I'd done. Then fast forward, I forget about it, you know, because you recuperate physically, mentally, you forget about those desperate prayers. But God didn't forget about it.

Yeah.

And God put a man in my path and God said, tell him how I changed your life. And that man did. And when he began to talk to me about Jesus, now I'm going to tell you what happened. This really happened, and I can't theologically explain to you how. As I'm listening to this man talk about Jesus, I heard myself say, how do I get saved? Without consciously deciding to say, ask him. And it freaked me out. It freaked me out, right? And so it was almost like I could see the words traveling, going to his ear. And I thought, I don't even know what this means.

So you didn't even know what that term theologically meant? You just—

I didn't. I don't even know how I talked without deciding to ask something other than— I mean, now, right? The Holy Spirit, you know, God's Spirit helped me to cry out for what I needed even when I didn't know what I needed. And it was the answer to the prayer. God, if you're real, please, why won't you help me? Because God says if you search for Him with all your heart, you'll find Him. And to the best of my ability, with everything that was in me, I was searching.

Wow.

And so what happened was that man looked at me when he heard those words, how do I get saved? His whole expression changed. He said, you want to be saved? And I felt what I now know is the Holy Spirit. It was confronting, but it was love. And I was so confronted with this love and presence. It was God. I said, yeah. I'm like, this is going to be great. I'm going to get saved and go meet my drug dealer. I did think that.

Yeah.

And so the man opened his Bible to Romans chapter 10, verses 9 and 10, read those to me, and we prayed a simple prayer. And then he anointed me with oil, laid hands on me, and as I felt all the hurt and the pain, the weight of everything I'd ever done, it felt like it just was being sucked out of my soul.

Hmm.

And then he didn't even ask me. He started praying that Jesus would baptize me in the Holy Spirit, and right then I got filled with the Holy Spirit.

Wow.

Wow. And I'm like, I stood up and I'm like, whoa, something's happened to me. The man's like, yeah, it did.

Geez.

And I never used drugs ever again.

I can't help but think as you're talking about that, of all the missed opportunities that many believers just let go. That this guy heard the voice of the Holy Spirit to come and share his testimony with you, ultimately resulting in you coming to the Lord. I think that just underscores the importance of being sensitive to the voice of the Holy Spirit because you never know who God is bringing to your path.

I think there's opportunities every day, everywhere we go, either to plant, water, or harvest. Wow. And I think the average Christian is so consumed with their responsibilities that they lose sensitivity to the assignment in the day-to-day life.

Yeah, and I love, I love that because I look at life and I look at my life and the big decisions, right, that I've had in my life, and I think about those, but I'm realizing that it's those micro decisions, those tiny ones that you make in that moment that really start to shape the path on where you're going.

Yes.

Like from skating, right? Or from doing that first hit of cocaine, right? You enter into that path and it's the micro decision in that moment that sends your life on wherever it's going to go.

Yes.

It's crazy.

And God working through that.

And he's working through it.

Ultimately coordinating and orchestrating to this moment where you get saved. So you give your life to the Lord, things turn around. Was it an immediate transformation like you never did drugs again, or was there still some struggle with that?

Well, I was tempted a couple of times and so people started immediately, come to our church, give your testimony. This is skater, drug addict, gets saved, right? So I would stand up and part of my testimony was I would always say this, God's even delivered me from the very thought.

Yeah.

Because I was completely free. Fast forward about maybe 2 months, I'm sitting at home one night on a Saturday night by myself, my wife and son, they were going somewhere, and all of a sudden this presence came into the room.

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I'm sitting at home one night on a Saturday night by myself. My wife and son, they were going somewhere, and all of a sudden this presence came into the room, and it was evil. It was dark, and I literally felt it hover over me, and the thought entered my mind, why don't you go score? Here's how you can do it. Nobody will know. You can drive back home. You can still go to church tomorrow.

Jesus.

That whole thought unraveled, and initially I kind of felt, I felt like discouragement coming over me a lot, and even check this out, the thought entered my mind, you can't call anybody to get them to pray for you because you've told everybody God's delivered you from the thought.

Wow. So you're on these platforms saying that you've even been delivered from the temptation itself.

Yes.

So you would have felt like a hypocrite reaching out saying, hey, I'm dealing with this thought again now. So the tempter entered the room. Was that, do you think, I mean, how pivotal was that moment?

It was at a crossroads. Had I given into that, only God knows where that could have potentially taken me. Because in that moment, because I started devouring God's Word. I'd never read a Bible. I started devouring the Word of God, and I would— I was that guy that would walk around with a study Bible everywhere I went, right? In any moment that I wasn't having to do something, I had it open reading it. And so I had some Word in me, even though I hadn't been saved very long. And sitting there feeling discouragement come over me, all of a sudden the Holy Spirit rose up in me and brought a verse to me that says, who the Son has set free is free indeed. And as soon as that happened, there was this confidence that came. I said, wait a minute, I'm free. Used to when the urge or desire to go use, it would rise up within me. It was in me. This time it was coming from outside of me.

Wow.

And so now the Word rose up in me to deal with what was coming from the outside trying to attack me.

Greater is He who is in you than he that is in the world.

Yes.

So in that moment where you give your life to the Lord and suddenly there's all these different churches and ministries, I imagine, pulling on you because of the popularity that you had. What do you think of that? I mean, do you think that was a bit opportunistic? Do you think that was healthy to be doing right away? And what do you think that speaks to in terms of the way that culture views popularity?

Yes and no. You know, were there opportunists? I would think so. But other people were authentically excited for what God was doing. And they were celebrating what God was doing. You know, like the woman who had the encounter with Jesus at the well, she runs back into the city, tells everybody what Jesus had said to her and did. They all go out because of her testimony, but encountered Him and believed for themselves. The— so I know there were lots of people like that that were just like, man, it's amazing at what God is doing in this guy's life. Now when I view that time in my life, now the gentleman that led me to Jesus, him and his wife, they sacrificially mentored me and my wife. I was very high maintenance in the beginning and—

What do you mean by that?

Well, coming from a very, you know, lifestyle of addiction and living the way, now all that's being stripped from me and now we're trying to figure out how to live for God. my wife and I are having complications because our life is radically changing, and I'm just nonstop asking questions, pulling, calling all the time, or I'm getting attacked by the enemy. I'm like, hey, there's spiritual warfare, or I'm picking somebody up off the street. Can I bring them to your house? So just there was a lot of that, and it really They mentored us. They taught us. They taught me how to pray. They taught me how to read the Bible. They took me into environments that would help me to grow in my walk with God. They believed in us, right? They didn't just lead me to Jesus and leave me, right? They really took us. And he became almost like what the Apostle Paul was, even though he wasn't in ministry. He was a professional man, a businessman. became a mayor of the town, mayor longer than anybody in the history of the town. And he's still, you know, my— the guy— I'm still in close relationship with him today. And so in the early days, there seemed to be a lot of competitiveness in the environment where I was at. Like, I'm called to preach, right? And people could see that, and I don't. I'm showing up at church, and I've never been a church hopper. I've only been in a few churches over the course of my entire Christian life. I still have the same pastor today that I had 20— I've had him for— he's been my pastor for 28 years, right? And so those first couple of years, it was almost like, hey, this young guy's on fire, They were afraid of me and I just—

Like other preachers were afraid of you?

Afraid of me, right. So I would like somehow they're going to— because I don't want to go start a church, anything like that. I wasn't there to try to pull people to myself. Actually, I wanted to be mentored. I desired to be mentored, fathered, right. You know, Paul said you have You have 10,000 teachers, but you don't have many fathers. I wanted to be fathered. I wanted somebody that would put their hand on me like Elijah did Elisha, and don't use your platform to make me a preacher. Just help me to be the man of God that I can be.

So you were looking for discipleship. They thought you were looking for a platform, and they were threatened by that, missing an opportunity to disciple someone. Now, you eventually did become a traveling evangelist. Was that gradual, naturally progressing from having been sharing your testimony in churches, or was there a distinct moment where you became an evangelist?

So it almost— so my heart, right? I was like out here on the streets. I started taking groups of people to that neighborhood and we'd put up— I made the outdoors church, right? Had the little speakers, had the amp, and I would break people up in twos because this was a neighborhood that there was a lot of activity in, a lot of drugs, a lot of bad things would go on at night, on the weekends particularly, and so we'd break them up in twos and we'd take turns preaching, but while people were in twos walking around the neighborhood, the housing projects, ministering to people. So that's where I started, and I would go out on the streets, and then people immediately began to invite me, hey, come share your testimony, story. And that happened a lot. But then within 3 years, probably about the 3-year mark, that's when God opened the door and God gave me a vision. And I literally was in prayer and God said, I want you to get this tent. I want you to go to inner cities of America and I want you to do this. And I saw this, right? So I started calling up tent companies and I'm like, oh my gosh, there's no way I can afford all this. I mean, it's going to be hundreds of thousands of dollars.

For a tent?

For everything to go with it.

Oh, I see.

Tent and sound and chairs and transportation, all that stuff, right? I'm like, there's no way. And I start downgrading it. I'm like, well, I could get a pickup truck and I got to get a pull-behind trailer and I can get a tent that'll seat 100 people. You know, that's what— and God opened up a door where a man had all that. He had an 18-wheel tractor trailer. He had the tent the size of a circus tent, had all the chairs, all the platform, truss lighting, had all the PA sound system, had a Leslie speaker, Hammond B-3 organ. This guy, he said, hey, I heard you're looking for a tent. I said, yes. He said, well, here's how much I'm going to give it to you for. God spoke to me. Wow. And okay, I'll tell you, $10,000.

Wow. With the Hammond included?

Everything.

Everything. What's that old saying? Where He guides, He will provide.

Yes.

God's will, God's bill. Yeah. I love that you tried to adjust it for your ability and then God ultimately said, no, we're going to adjust this according to My ability.

And so I took that into the inner cities across America. Feathers— back then I was in Alabama, right? Feathers I ever went west was Colorado Springs, but everywhere, Southeast. I went everywhere with that tent and just going to the worst environments where those people wouldn't necessarily come to church, but we took it to them. And then more and more doors kept opening up to preach in churches, and it got so much that I was preaching in churches that I was no longer using the tent. And then that was the path I continued to go on.

And then eventually How did you transition from being a traveling evangelist to then being a pastor of a church local?

So I was in my prayer closet. I literally had a walk-in closet. I was in there praying and God said, I want you to go back to California and I want you to start a church and I want to use you to raise up a church that's so vertically focused, I can come and do whatever I want to do. And I felt like God said, there's good churches around there, but I want to raise you up. I want to raise a church up where I can come and express myself in a way I'm not being expressed in other places.

Hmm.

And so that's all I had was a word from God. And I came out of that moment and I told my wife, Christy, I said, God said we're to go to California. She had never lived in California. I said, God said to go back to California. We're going to start a church. And she tells everybody, I saw the look in his eye and I knew he had heard from God.

Wow.

And eventually we sold everything. Didn't have the promise of anything, right? It was before a lot of their— there's a lot of resources now that are available to people where guys will share their secrets on how to start a church. None of that was available. If they were, I didn't know about it. You know, we were— the way we were sent out was they called us in front of the church, they anointed us with oil, they laid hands on us, they prayed for us, said, if you get in trouble, call us, we'll lift you up in prayer, right? And so that was like, go get it, you know, and I'm very thankful. I love my pastor, the church I came from, but that's the way they did it back then.

Now it began in Huntington Beach, right?

Yes.

That building, I remember I preached for your Spanish ministry a couple times. I don't know if you know that. Remember Rudy Salinas?

Yes.

So Pastor Rudy Salinas, your Spanish pastor, or I don't know if he was your Spanish pastor or if he just used your building, but I would go preach there. Was that the first building or were you guys somewhere prior to that?

Yeah, we started in community center, Edison Community Center in Huntington Beach. Started with about 40 people probably. on a good day, 40 people. And it looked more like an AA meeting in the name of Jesus. And I was like, this is not what I envisioned in my mind.

Wow.

And I'll be very transparent with you. In my mind, I thought, we're going to start this church and it's going to be middle class, upper middle class, low maintenance people. They're going to be great givers and we're going to have church and I'm going to pray over them and I'll see them next Sunday. And that's not— that wasn't God's idea. and there was a moment where God said, quit trying to build the church you want to build and build the church I want to build. And I said, okay God, I surrender.

What were some of the differences you saw between being a pastor and an evangelist? And I don't like that I'm wording it this way, but I guess for the sake of conversation, I could ask about pros and cons.

Yes. There are Huge distinct differences. A pastor is married to the people.

Hmm.

One of the things that God immediately shifted in terms of how He graced me with this new position was that the compassion level— I was always very compassionate. That's why I was out in the areas that I would go to, the hardest to help. I was out there doing it, but it's a whole different story when you're living in the middle of a group of people that are very fragmented and broken and you're trying to make their life better. You have to be committed to the journey.

Hmm.

So as an evangelist, you're preaching for immediate results. As a pastor, you're developing them for long-term results, and when you're living with people that are broken, You often know what they need when they don't know what they need, and sometimes they resist you trying to get them to where they need to be.

How do you know at which point to say, I'm going to wipe the dust off my feet and move on, versus I'm gonna abide, help, persist? Are there certain signs that you look for in the individual?

I do. There's 2 things. Number one, when I realize at a certain point I'm trying harder than they are, I'm working on their life harder than they're working out their salvation, right? So if they're trying to put all the heavy lifting on my shoulders, we got a problem because the Bible doesn't tell me to work out their salvation. Scripture says I am to help equip them to work out their salvation.

Mm-hmm.

And so if they're just dumping their problems on me to try to fix them, problem. So if I'm helping somebody and I give them instructions and they don't follow the instructions and they keep coming back to me with the same problem, Then there comes a point where I have to tell them, there's no going there until you deal with what's right here. And I can't help you if you're not willing to do what I'm asking you to do. So there's that. Some people, I realize my only job is to minister, sow seeds when they sit in seats. That's my only job. Other people, I have a different level of responsibility to because of how they position themselves, and when they position themselves to really become a disciple, then how I invest myself goes to another level. Now, the Holy Spirit has at times told me—

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Other people I have a different level of responsibility to because of how they position themselves.

Mm-hmm.

And when they position themselves to really become a disciple, then how I invest myself goes to another level. Now the Holy Spirit has at times told me, continue to invest, invest, invest. even when I'm seeing no fruit. My wife is great at that. I mean, there's literally, I've seen her invest 10 years in somebody where I've been like 5 times over, stop it. You know, it's just not working. Stop it. But eventually it bears fruit. I'm like, well, thank God she had you. But so there's those moments where the Holy Spirit will speak like that. But then as people are— because Jesus didn't have the same level of relationships. You know, He took Peter, James, and John up onto the Mount of Transfiguration. He literally transformed. They saw Him in a more transparent light than anybody else.

Mm-hmm.

Then He had the 12. The 12 did life with Him for 3 and a half years. So they did day in, day out almost all the time with Him apart from ministering to people, they'd say, what do you mean? So He would tell them. So when you did this, what do you mean? And Jesus would explain to them. So He invested in them. Now notice this, that when it came to His disciples, He didn't operate in prophecy. He didn't give them words of knowledge, anything like that. He developed them.

Hmm.

Now to the crowds, You know, there's words of knowledge, there's prophecies, there's miracles, but to them, there's developing and building, right, and then there was the 70 and then there's the masses. So the way I determine who goes, who gets to come, right, because you just don't let anybody—

Have that level of access.

Level of access all the time, and so those who get closer, here's the way I determine. By what kind of questions are they asking me?

What kind of a question?

Questions.

So what would you listen for? What kind of questions, for example, would they ask?

When people start genuinely trying to pull and ask questions that would empower them for their future, I'm like, okay, there's potential right there. Are they trying to impress me? Because I get those guys, right? They get close and they almost want to like be competitive in their conversation. Like, I know this and I know that. They're trying to impress you. I'm like, well, as long as you're trying to impress me, I can't help you. And so if it's that type of conversation or if somebody's just wanting to connect like, oh man, he'd be a cool guy just to be buddies with. You know, you can be friends with anybody.

Right.

You know, and I'm not going to pull somebody into my inner circle that I'm really investing in, like, like if they were a son or somebody that really has potential to do something for God because of how they position themselves. I'm only going to invest that because we all only have so much time and space, energy and resources, and we're called to be good stewards with everything we have. So for me to steward properly who I am and what God's gifted me with and what I now know because of my journey with Christ, to just waste it on a buddy who's gonna do nothing with it is being a bad steward.

Yeah, you have to steward your time.

Yes.

So on that note, I wanted to ask you about something. Now I've got to know you personally You've allowed us to host our Encounter Services at your location there in Costa Mesa. And your staff, your team, always so welcoming, you always so gracious. You gave us a great price on renting that facility when you saw that we were running out of space at our other facility. So we would do monthly meetings at your church. I even remember one instance where your team was preparing the sanctuary for us and you were out there with them stacking chairs. And it reminded me of this contrast. And this goes back to that saying, perception is reality. Some of our listeners might recognize you from that show, Preachers of LA.

Yes.

Now, the way the producers framed that program where they're constantly digging for drama, and to some degree, my opinion is they were trying to give a bad look to preachers in general or the church in general. You know, it was such a contrast because again, even before you were on Preachers of LA, I got to interact with you at TBN. You were always so kind, gracious, humble. And I remember looking at the promos and the way they did it. I said, that looks so flashy, that looks so in your face. And here I know this to be a humble servant of the Lord who loves Jesus, loves people. So speaking to that question of good stewardship of time, what was your experience like working on that show? And would you do it again knowing what you know now?

How did they even come up to you first for that show? How did they come up to you?

So NBC, who owned Oxygen, I guess they still do, they bought the show. It was all the cast besides me. So they said, we're going to buy the show, because there was actually VH1 and Oxygen, NBC, they both were like, we'll buy the show. VH1, they were going to do like a pilot run to determine whether they would make it a full-blown series. Oxygen said, we'll buy it and go straight to series. We'll greenlight it all the way.

Oh, wow.

But we want diversity, which is code for white guy. And so So the production company called a friend that's one of my friends, said, do you know a white guy in LA that would fit? He's like, you got to see my guy Jay. And they called me up. So the Sunday before— so let me go back a year before that. There was a guy that was visiting. He was on vacation in ministry. He said, hey, I want to come visit you while I'm there on vacation. He He's just sitting there with us on the stage and stuff, and church is happening. And he's like, I got a prophetic word. I said, well, hold on to it. I'll let you give it. And so in a certain moment, I said, he's got a word. I didn't know the word was for me. I thought it's for our church. It was for our church. But he said, you're going to be on TV. It's going to be mainstream TV. It's going to be a new kind of fishing program. You're going to reach millions of people. And fast forward a year, it happened. But the Sunday before, I got the phone call on Monday. Another person's in our church. They came up to me, you're about to be on TV.

Wow.

And I never had a desire to be on like TV like that. And Monday got a phone call. Hey, this is so-and-so production company. And Would you be interested in potentially being on a show? I said, well, I'll talk to you. And to make a long story short, that's how it happened. And I went, I filmed what they called a sizzle reel with them.

Yes.

And then they did their sizzle reel with NBC and they're like, yes, we want the guy. And that's how it all happened.

What made you say yes? Did you have any like reservations? Because—

Well, I didn't have any reservations because I had 2 prophetic words. My wife, and then God did speak to me. And I'm not saying this to say something negative or toward the other cast members or to say I'm better, but God told me, God said, I want you to be on this show 'cause you're gonna represent me in a way I would not be represented otherwise.

Hmm.

And so fast forward, I'm talking to Christy. Christy, she is a quieter type person, right? She doesn't want the microphone. She don't want to be on a stage. That's, you know, she's very supportive and given her life sacrificially to ministry, but she doesn't want a stage. So she's like heels dug in. No, I don't want to do this.

My Jessica would be the same way.

Because she couldn't get her mind around like, these are all drama shows.

Right.

How's this going to work? We're not that. But eventually she's like, she prayed and God— and I reminded her, remember these prophetic words? One of them was just the other day. And so she said yes and we said yes.

During production, did you get the sense that they were trying to create drama or even make the church look bad?

There was definitely 100%. There was most of the time they didn't, but there was one time for sure they tried to create drama. And we had been filming at one of the bishops' house all afternoon. It's 1 o'clock in the morning. So at 1 o'clock in the morning, you're mentally, emotionally fatigued. So, you know, you're not on your A-game, right?

Yeah.

It would be easier to get the the worst part of you once you've given yourself that way all day, right?

Mm-hmm.

So they wanted me to have a conversation with another guy that had a baby outside of wedlock. And so they wanted me to bring this conversation up. And I told them in private, I said, look, I can talk about this now. For a long time, I couldn't because I had a non-disclosure for $1 million if I violated it.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

Let's double-check that before we post this. Make sure the date has passed.

Yeah. So they asked me, have this conversation. I said, look, that's not my nature to out somebody like that. Do I care? Yes, I care about this guy. And I will only have this conversation with him if he wants me to have the conversation with him. There were 2 executive producers standing there. And so they're like, no, he's ready. And so when I brought it up, we're filming the scene at 1 o'clock in the morning. Other cast members have left. We're here in this bishop's house. He's gone off to his private space. We're in his living room and I bring it up and the guy goes off on me, right?

So they lied to you?

They lied to me. Either that or he was in on it.

Ah.

He was in on it. And so they— because that wasn't me. And I was very— I knew this, like I'm in control of how I give myself. I don't have to be something that I'm not, and I'm not going to do anything that's not me. And I told all those guys, I said, look, I plan on being in ministry when this show's over. I said, no show lasts forever. This isn't a bridge. This is a pier. We get to the end and it's gone. And so it created conflict, and I had to dig deep. In that moment, because I did feel anger. I'm like, I've been set up and I got cameras on me. I'm being— I got somebody coming at me hard and it's a high-level conflict and I had to keep my composure.

So what were some of the reactions from that? I know it was probably very polarizing in terms of having a preacher on a show that the church knows is secular. So I'm sure it drew criticism, but I'm also sure since you received prophetic words that you were to be on that, that there was fruit from it.

Massive.

So tell me a little bit of both.

Well, initially because the trailer, right, was so sensational.

Very flashy.

Very flashy, right. It showed Bentleys and Ferraris, right, mansions, and some of those guys, that's their stuff and The— so there was that. It was put out in that way like, well, these guys are out of their mind and— or that's all they care about. And so there was an initial— and I told our church, I said, look, the last thing I want to do is put you in the middle of a battle. God has spoken to me to do this. You guys heard. We've had 2 prophecies in this room That this is what God wanted. And I said, so the last thing I want to do is embarrass you. The last thing I want to do is put you in a position where you have to defend me. And I said, but just trust that on the other side of this, people are going to see the fruit of this. And so literally millions of people watched. When people would come to California on vacation, they'd go to— they want to see the stars on Hollywood. They want to go to Disneyland and on Sunday, I want to go to the Sanctuary Church.

Hmm.

So we had people from literally all over that would come. There was a lady. I'll give you one example. There was a lady. I'll give you 2 examples. There was a lady that had terminal cancer. And she didn't have much money. And her hairstylist literally felt like creating this bucket list for this lady and said, what would you— what do you want to do? I want to help you to achieve these things that you want to get to experience in your life. One of them was to come to the church because she had watched the show. This lady, I don't know, they were from some other state, Missouri or somewhere. They came The lady got saved, gave her life to Jesus, and eventually went to heaven not that much longer later. That's fruit.

Hmm.

From the show, reaching people far beyond the 4 walls of where we were. And our phones nonstop were inundated with calls. You know, can you help me? Can you direct me? Stuff like that. I had to literally create a person that this is all you do is deal with these phone calls and try to help these people.

Wow.

And then it opened up opportunities in private. You know, Paul described meeting with certain people in private, right? So that his labor wouldn't be in vain. Well, for example, I was invited to Rockefeller Center in New York City.

Oh, wow.

And I sat on the floor with people from Bravo, NBC, and Oxygen in a room. I was on a stool for this big room full of people and just asking me questions about Jesus.

Wow.

I would've never got that opportunity otherwise. That gave me that opportunity. And there were so many more. that I got because of that.

Yeah, I think sometimes the church is resistant to methodologies that might seem a little bit different than what they're used to. But I'm of the belief that so long as the message doesn't change, you're preaching Jesus, you're holding to biblical truth, you're not compromising, you're standing firm on what the Bible says, that the methodology by which you deliver that communication really can change from time to time. Like we have social media, we have podcasts, we have live streams. there are TV shows. As long as people are hearing the gospel. Now with this caveat, I wouldn't want to do God's work the devil's way.

Yeah, well, that's true.

Like, you know, there are sometimes where certain individuals might justify their methodology and that methodology is outright deceptive or sinful. That's wrong, of course.

That's wrong.

But I'm talking about the means of communication. That of course we know.

Yes.

God can use any of that So long as people are coming into encounters with Jesus. And that's one of your passions.

Yes.

Is seeing people encounter the presence of the Holy Spirit through worship. You had told me something and it really touched my heart, and I hope you'll share it again, where you have this desire. I almost, when you were describing it to me, visualized you just doing this with your hands, like motioning toward Jesus, as if you're just Introducing them.

And I do feel like that. So think, so where John the Baptist said, He must increase and I must decrease. I mean, he was this voice preparing the way and people came out from everywhere to hear him. And in the middle of all of these people looking at him and listening to him, he takes the attention from himself and he points to Jesus. He says, now that I have your attention, look right there.

Mm-hmm.

So as a minister, I feel that's my responsibility. I just want to get people's attention just so I can point them to Jesus. When I first knew that God had called me into ministry, I literally would lay on my living room floor and I would cry and I would beg God to use me. And what I would ask God to allow me to do, I just want to get people into Your presence. If I can just get people into Your presence, I know Your presence can do for them what they need done for them. And, and I still feel that way to this day, that I could be the most brilliant, articulate communicator, but if I have no presence, if I can't help people to encounter His presence, then it's just nothing. It's all in vain because He's the one that changes lives. I don't change lives. When I'm used to change lives, it's Him through me. It's Him through us that does it. Apart from Him, we can do nothing. And, um, so my— we were never designed to live outside God's presence. In the beginning when God created Adam, the Bible says he was crowned with glory. He lived in this constant position of being in God's presence. Yes, God would come down, you know, walk with him in the cool of the eve and they'd have conversation, you know, intimacy, talking, questions, answers. But then when man sinned, immediately he got outside the presence of God and he started to malfunction. All humanity began to malfunction. people began to do things they were never designed to do. We were never designed by God to live outside of his presence.

Hmm.

And anytime you get people into his presence, what is out of line begins to come in line. What you didn't have a desire for, all of a sudden you begin to have a desire for. The desires that we have, as to serve God, to walk with God, Those are desires he put in us as a result of us encountering him. To desire— because I like to read the Bible. I love to pray. I love to worship. I am a worshiper. Like, if you put Bible reading, prayer life, worship in 3 categories, my worship probably exceeds all of them. I engage in all of them. They're all important. And because I just—

I love that.

When God saved me and I got back into my car, I didn't— whatever saved meant, I knew I was. I was that. And I start screaming at the top of my lungs, I'm saved! I'm saved! And it was almost like every time I would scream, I'm saved! God's presence would sweep through the car, filling it. And it was— I was like Acts chapter 2. What Peter said, they're not drunk like you think they are. So it was pure. It was from heaven. It was God's presence and it was intoxicating. Not that God's presence is always intoxicating. There are those moments where we feel His manifested presence, which I value that above everything. I love God's presence because that means there's manifested intimacy, manifested closeness. But even when we don't sense that, but there's this awareness or thoughts about God, that's because God's presence is with us.

It's like you're not always able to feel him emotionally or physically, that tangible touch on your being, but there's this inner knowing, that witness of the Holy Spirit saying, he's with me, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. We know that we know that we know. that he abides with us. Pastor J, this has been an incredible conversation. Thank you for joining us here on our first episode—

Thank you.

Of the Encounter Podcast. And I'll leave you with a question for conversation. Tell me in the comment section, can you describe for me a moment in 2 or 3 sentences where the power of the Holy Spirit touched your life that transformed you forever? Don't forget to like and subscribe on your way out. And until next time, remember, nothing is impossible with God.