How I Built Resilience: Jeremy Zimmer of United Talent Agency

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Take us back to March. When did you realize that this was going to have a huge impact on your business?

Well, I don't know that in March I could understand or grasp the full impact that it was going to have. But I certainly remember it was— I was supposed to go to a Laker game. And I was sort of debating, should I go? Should I not go? And then the news came out about Rudy Gobert. And then suddenly the game was canceled. And boom. And that was the first sign of, wow, they canceled basketball games? Like, that seems really a big thing. The season was canceled shortly thereafter, and then boom. It was, it was hard to comprehend in the beginning.

Yeah.

UTA, like other talent agencies, has been affected by this. You have had to have furloughs and pay cuts. You're not taking a salary. Talk me through a little bit about how this has affected UTA so far.

Well, so far it, it's affected us because, you, you know, first of all, everybody in the company participated in a salary reduction of some form or another. That was a really difficult thing to ask everybody to join in the sacrifice. But, you know, what we realized is the overall financial health of the company, sustaining the company for the duration is gonna be more, a more positive and ultimately important thing for people than, you know, trying to maintain everybody's salary at that current level in the short term. So that was a difficult sacrifice. We chose to make some furloughs. We took advantage of the fact that governments, you know, were supporting people who had been furloughed. So, so far, we've been just trying to keep going and keep everybody's spirits up and trying to figure out ways to be creative and thoughtful and of service to the clients when we can't just make a deal and send them off to go do a movie or book a show and have them go perform in front of 20,000 people. Creating new business opportunities for clients has been a big, big part priority for us.

Um, the portfolio of which you represent is enormous— live events and, and news reporters and anchors, and obviously films and production and YouTubers and esports and, and so on and so forth. Let's talk about the film industry first. Um, are movies being made right now? Like, what's going on in Hollywood? Are sound studios and the production facilities dark?

For the most part, the sound studios and production facilities in most of the US are dark. There are movies being made in New Zealand. I think Tyler Perry's doing some production in Atlanta. People are going up to Vancouver to begin looking at production there. I think there's some production being done in London. You know, we have some things coming back, but it's still very slow, and we're hoping that this new wave doesn't shut down whatever progress has been made.

Wow.

For the most part, sound studios, production studios, facilities in the US are dark.

What does that mean?

I mean, does that mean that in some ways, Do you think in 6 months' time there's going to be just a massive slowdown of new content, of new, new movies?

I mean, there has been a backlog of releases, so movies that were in post-production being finished or being prepared for distribution, those movies haven't been distributed because the theaters have been dark. So there is a backlog of new theatrical releases that will be available when theaters open back up. Some studios have taken to selling some of their product direct to streamers and releasing them direct on streaming or on electronic sell-through, so there will be some flow of new material, but that will winnow down, I would imagine, pretty quickly, and for, you know, companies that are relying on pure television production, that's going to winnow down much more quickly.

Yeah, we just heard about Tenet, the Christopher Nolan film that was supposed to come out, and first it was going to come out in July, and then it And then in August, and this was going to be like the tentpole movie that was going to save the summer movie season. It's now being postponed indefinitely, probably to 2021. I mean, can movies recoup the production costs by going direct to streaming, to video? I mean, I know there have been some examples, Trolls and some other movies. Is that a business model that could work?

I think it could work, but it'll be dependent on how expensive the movie is. And it'll be dependent on how much people can charge and how much the audience will show up. I mean, it's hard to know, but you could imagine that— let's take the new Jurassic Park movie. If Universal ultimately elected to put that out at $100 a household, maybe people would pay for it. And maybe if you got 5 million people to pay $100, maybe that would cover the cost of the production and put everybody into profitability. I really don't know, but I think we're going to see people starting to test different ways to monetize the content that they're making as the theatrical business remains in question.

Yeah, and same thing with television, right? I mean, television production facilities are also dark.

Yes, they are right now, for sure.

And will that mean—

I mean, is there also sort of a backlog on television programs that are not being released? Are we gonna enter a period in like a year's time when there's actually a shortage of new TV?

I think that'll happen perhaps more quickly than the theatrical because, you know, the television gets released when it gets produced. So it's not like they've been sitting on movies waiting for the theaters to open. As soon as something's done and available, whatever, they schedule it for that release. So I don't think people, especially right now with such an unbelievably captive or captured audience, You know, people want new, new material now. I don't think streamers or networks are sitting on their best stuff waiting for another time. I think they're throwing whatever they can out at the audience. That'll be, to me, a bigger concern is how do they keep the supply of fresh content going?

I mean, you depend on films and movies, TV and live events happening. You broker those deals and you represent very famous people around the world. Um, so how do you kind of think about, about what you do and how your business earns revenue, you know, given these really challenging circumstances?

Yeah, I mean, there's, there's only so much you can really do. We try to create new opportunities and new sources of revenue for clients. And so that can be clients who have the time and ability to go into publishing or clients who have the time and ability to go into podcasts or, You know, musicians who are going to do live streams, and you try to create and maximize those kind of opportunities for people, but it's not going to replace the day-to-day revenue that comes from actors starring in TV shows and movies, writers and directors and producers creating television, and, you know, musicians being out playing, you know, a full tour, or athletes playing a full season. You know, that is going to be compromised. You know, we are all trying to manage our resources as carefully as we can so that when things start to come back to normal, we will be healthy and able to take advantage of the return to normal.

Yeah, exactly right.

What are you seeing creative performers doing that is capturing your attention?

We did an incredible thing with our client Cascade where we— he did a show On the overlook at the Grand Canyon. So we were able to, you know, he was able to secure that as a place, and we were able to help him arrange for a livestream of a full show shot in that incredible location. That's an example of how performers are thinking about what they wanna do and how they can use this moment to do things that aren't normal, that don't need the full audience, but then give them an opportunity to reach out to their— fans in an environment that's going to be exciting and dynamic.

Jeremy, what do you say to your agents, right? You've got a lot of— let's say you're a young agent or, you know, you're an agent at UTA, and so much of what you do depends on being there face-to-face. So much of what you do is like there's personal interaction, and now it's all happening remotely. Like, you are running a company of 900-plus people. You know, what kind of guidance are you giving your agents in terms of developing new clients and building up their roster when they can't actually physically see people and meet with people?

Yeah, I think what we're focusing on is staying in contact with the clients we have and making sure they feel that we're there, we're connected, we're trying to be creative, we're trying to help them think through what steps they can be taking, or, you know, in some cases we're going backwards, particularly with writers where, you know, so many writers have written really good scripts and really good projects that somehow didn't come together. And in the hustle bustle of daily life, you kind of move on to the next thing. So we're also looking backwards and remembering the script that someone wrote 8 years ago for Paramount. And then, you know, 3 Paramount regimes changed, but the script's still really good. And how can we bring that back to life? So we're doing that. And, you know, I'm also trying to remind them, look, I was— I remember, you know, when 9/11 happened, I sat there and said, well, I'm never flying again. And, you know, I don't know, a year later, 6 months later, I was flying all over the place. Now, it was different. Suddenly now I'm flying, I have to take my shoes off, I have to go through this, I have to go through that. It's all different. But we adapted and that became the norm. And I think that people have to understand that, you know, when you look back on events you're facing, they're often not nearly as awful as when you're facing them. You know, when I'm looking towards a problem, it seems it's going to be all-consuming. And impossible to surmount. And when I look back on that same problem, I can go, wow, that was a pain in the ass, but here's what I learned from it. Here are the people that helped me get through it. And in retrospect, I learned a lot, a great deal, and I'm stronger having been through it.

When we come back in just a moment, Jeremy takes questions from our audience about how to make live music work better during a lockdown and the need for more diversity in Hollywood.

Stay with us. I'm Guy Raz, and you're listening to How I Built This, Resilience Edition, from NPR.

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Let me start with this question from Noel Mesfin, and I know you, you address this in an email to your team, your staff. He asks, what is UTA's plan for hiring and supporting a greater number of people of color in its agent ranks?

Well, that's a really— it's a really important part of our Go Forward initiative. We are going to be as aggressive as we can be and as sort of streamlined as we can be to find, develop, and support a much more diverse agent force. In the last year, we've actually hired 3 African American division heads at the company. So we've been able to find really great executives. We just had to be able to either, in some cases, a little more creative, or in some cases, a little more aggressive. And we're going to continue on that path and be as assertive and rigorous as we can be about that.

How much of a role do you think that talent agencies have to play in in making Hollywood and the entertainment industry more inclusive and more representative of the entire American population, not just people on screen, but people also behind the scenes too?

Well, I think we play a big role. To me, the role is very much driven by and guided by the people in front of the camera. It's the artists who need to have a voice and can tell stories, and those stories will help us all change the way we look at the world and change our priorities and help us focus on the problems. And I think that, you know, representing dynamic new voices and diverse voices and making sure they're being given every opportunity and in some ways, you know, really being jumped to the front of the line in some cases, I think is a really important burden for representation. And as part of that, we need to have colleagues That those artists can feel as comfortable as they can with anybody. So when they, when they look at their team of agents, they want to see people on that team that, that look like them and represent the world they come from.

There has been a long-simmering dispute between the Writers Guild of America and the Big 4 talent agencies over compensation. It's complicated. It's around this idea called packaging. I won't get into it, but basically the writers have argued They have not been fairly compensated for the work they've done on TV and movie scripts. Just a couple weeks ago, I think last week, UTA struck a deal with the Writers Guild of America. The other 3 talent agencies, I think, are still working out what they want to do. But talk a little bit about the decision to strike a deal with the Writers Guild of America. It's been widely seen as a victory for the writers. I mean, is this also sort of a realization that we're in this pandemic and We've gotta kind of resolve this thing right now?

There's— I mean, by the way, you said it is complex, and it is. It is wildly nuanced. There are, I could argue, 14 different sides of the conversation with almost equal vigor. At the end of the day, you know, we started as a writers' agency. We really believe that, really, it's all about storytelling. So, we wanted to get back in business with writers, and we wanted to be a place where writers feel like we— Are listening to their concerns. And do I agree with everything that the Writers Guild believes about packaging? I really don't. Do I believe that there were a lot of benefits to writers in packaging? I really do. Do I believe that we were doing something illegal or scandalous or anything like that? I don't. It was— we were incredibly transparent. It was all available and everyone seemed to be on board with it. But things change. So we accept that they change. We've now reached a deal with the Writers Guild. We feel like both sides prevailed, and that there were some things about what they initially wanted that were completely unacceptable to us. And many of those demands have been dropped. And that was very, very important to us. And we've given in on packaging, which I think is obviously very important to them. I'm just excited we can go back to working together. And hopefully, we'll be able to put great shows TV shows together and continue to get great results for our clients.

And from the sounds of it, there's going to be a need for a lot of TV in like 6 months because no one's making TV right now.

It sounds like— I think there's going to be a lot of need for a lot of TV for a long time. People seem so excited and compelled by what they can watch, and it seems like there's going to be a need for a very long time. And we have a very, very aggressive and competitive marketplace. with these streamers who are really fighting each other to get the very best stuff. And that's going to be tremendous benefit for clients who are going to be able to take advantage of that competition.

We got a question in from Scott Moeller. He asks, how do you think streaming will play into artists' touring plans? Like, do you see a world where bands are going to sell as many tickets as they're legally allowed to sell, you know, for virtual events and, you know, basically make up their revenue that way? I mean, is that a possibility?

I don't know that they'll make up the same revenue from those events, but I think they will be able to earn a living doing live events, especially if we can figure out the right ways to sort of geofence a live event. So if you want to do a live event for Portland and Seattle, you could sort of do it for those 2 areas. So you can kind of replicate a touring model. It'll require really putting together something that's going to be very dynamic. on screen, which will not be a straight-up stand on a stage and do a performance. So how do we create the events to be very dynamic and engaging? And that'll be part of where that business goes going forward.

And are those innovations really being driven by the situation now? Are they being fast-tracked because of what we're experiencing now?

Oh, absolutely. I mean, look, every, you know, every crisis has its innovation. And what's interesting, I mean, I think Spotify broke its streaming record maybe yesterday or the day before. So the hunger and appetite for music is as big as ever, you know, and we're just seeing it over and over again. And we're seeing the way artists just explode into the public consciousness. You know, 3 years ago, Billie Eilish was someone no one had ever heard of, and wow. And I mean, Juice WRLD just released his new album, and posthumously it's a gigantic hit. And so what we're seeing is this incredible thirst.

Yeah.

for great music. I just have to believe that when people can go out and experience it live again, they will.

Um, we're getting a bunch of questions in from people who want to be agents, um, so I'll kind of ask this. This is Jeremy Zimmeroff asks a version of this question: what do you look for in, in people who, who want to work for you and be agents?

I mean, one of the most important things I look for is somebody who has a real passion for the product. I want to be an agent because I love music and I love artists and I want to figure out a way to work with them. And I believe in the journey of the artist and I see value in being a part of the team for an artist and what I can bring to the party. You know, if you want to represent filmmakers, you have to understand and value the power of storytelling through the cinematic medium. I know that sounds academic, but it's real. And if you can't, you know, if you can't sit down and tell me who your 10 favorite filmmakers are and why, or 5 favorite filmmakers and why, then how are you really going to communicate to a filmmaker why he or she should let you represent them?

When you think about this moment now, Jeremy, running and leading an organization in an unprecedented crisis, what do you want to take away with you from this time? When you look back in 5 years and say, that was a crazy moment, but you know, this is what we learned, this is what we did, this is how we kind of operated, And we want to kind of take this value with us into the future. What what would it be?

What this time has done for me is it has really allowed me to reflect on fragility and develop more empathy. You know, when I first started hearing about this and people were scared of the virus, I was like, "Oh, come on! What are you kidding me? Let's go." Da da da da. I lived through the seventies. This is fine. Da da da. And you know that. It was such an uneducated and unsympathetic view. And to understand that people are experiencing the world in so many different ways, and there's so much anxiety out there, and that to be able to be there as a friend and as a supporter and as a listener and as a concerned colleague is a really, really valuable characteristic now, and I think going forward. You know, I think leadership today is not sort of You need to be strong, but you need to be quiet. You need to be intense, but you need to be concerned. It's like this— it's two different— it's almost playing offense and defense always at the same time. And that's been a really great challenge and a difficult challenge for me and something I've learned a lot from.

Jeremy Zimmer, co-founder, CEO of United Talent Agency, thank you. Thank you so much.

Thank you. It's been a real pleasure. I'm a huge admirer of yours and what you, what you do. So thanks for allowing me to join you.

That's an excerpt from my conversation with Jeremy Zimmer, the CEO and co-founder of United Talent Agency.

To see our full interview, you can go to facebook.com/howibuiltthis.

And if you want to see all of our past live interviews, you can find them there or at youtube.com/npr. If you want to find out more about the How I Built This Resilience series or other virtual NPR events, You can go to nprpresents.org. This episode was produced by Candice Lim, with help from Will Mitchell, Tyra Lockhart, Matt Adams, Allie Prescott, Gianna Capodona, John Isabella, Julia Carney, Neva Grant, and Jeff Rogers. Thanks for listening. Stay safe, and I'll see you back here in a few days. I'm Guy Raz, and you've been listening to How I Built This from NPR. We get support from Engine. A lot of founders start with a product or an idea. But at some point, the business becomes something else. Think about Brian Scudamore. He started 1-800-GOT-JUNK with one truck and a vision to make junk removal a real brand. That worked, and then it became hundreds of crews across multiple cities, trucks on the road every day, routes changing by the hour, and a team that had to be in the right place before the customer even called. Or Beryl Stafford, who started Bobo's by baking oat bars in her kitchen. Next thing she knows, she's flying to retail meetings, Demoing at trade shows, managing distributors coast to coast, running a national food brand out of what used to be a family recipe. Or Tom Hale, who built Backroads around the idea that active travel could be a premium experience. That means guides in 6 countries, gear shipments, guest logistics, thousands of moving pieces that all have to land before a single trip begins. Different businesses, same truth. Here's what I've noticed after talking to hundreds of founders. The hard part is rarely the big idea. It's what happens when the idea works. Suddenly you've got people on the move and all the logistics that come with it. That's the real test. And that's why I think Enjin is worth knowing about. Enjin is the fastest-growing modern travel and spend platform in the country, built for small and medium-sized businesses. The average business traveler spends 45 minutes booking a single trip on a legacy platform. With Engine, that drops to as little as 2.5 minutes. Last year, Engine customers saved $318 million on travel. Average savings of 26% on hotel bookings. No contracts, no booking fees. More than 1,000 businesses join Engine every month. Join them and get $500 when your business signs up and starts traveling at engine.com/built.