#61 - Encouraging Women Leaders in Sports Chiropractic with Dr. Shea Stark

Hi guys, welcome to a new episode of The Factor Podcast. I'm your host, Jessica Riddle. If this is your first time tuning in, welcome and thanks for listening. In today's episode, we're taking a bit of a detour from our typical training format. To bring you a special Q&A discussion. Today, we'll be chatting with Dr. Shae Stark in a segment titled Sports Chiropractic: Encouraging Female Leadership in a Male-Dominated Profession. From treating on the sidelines to serving on the governing boards for some of the world's leading sports medicine organizations, in recent years, we've seen a huge uptick of female leadership within sports chiropractic. But there is still so much more to be done to encourage the next generation to continue to lean into opportunities to serve, And step into leadership positions when they're presented. And who better to have this discussion with than Dr. Shea Stark, former president of the ACA Sports Council, current North American representative for the International Federation of Sports Chiropractic, and member of the Medical Commission for USA Cheerleading. A graduate of Texas Chiropractic College, Dr. Shea Stark began getting involved in leadership and service positions within professional organizations While she was still a student in chiropractic school. She took advantage of every opportunity to learn and build her network. We'll touch a little bit today on what she learned from these experiences and discuss the ways that being intentional about building her network while still in school served as a catalyst that continues to open doors to this day. In this fascinating conversation, we will chat about Dr. Stark's journey in pursuing her career in sports chiropractic. We'll talk about the importance of manual skills in treating on the sidelines, and we'll take a little peek behind the curtain to learn what it takes to travel the world treating high-performance athletes. As a fellow female entrepreneur, I had a ton of fun with this discussion. My hope is that this serves as inspiration and provides some actionable tips for students or new practitioners who are still seeking direction and purpose on their next steps. And while this is a bit of a shorter episode than most, I think you'll find great value in learning from Dr. Stark's story and finding out what has led her to where she is today. Now, full disclosure, some of our audio is not the best on this particular episode. We were utilizing Zoom and sometimes connection was a bit spotty. Obviously, in the post-production and editing, we have cleaned it up as much as humanly possible, but I still think there's so much valuable content in this episode that I wanted to publish this, even with a little bit of the audio challenges. So that being said, pull up a seat. Let's cue the intro music and dive right in.

What are you involved in now? I know you recently have made a pretty significant move back down to Texas.

Yes. So after almost 6 years up in Bozeman, Montana, I decided to move back to Houston and I opened my own practice. So I've been going for just over 2 years now in my own practice. So that's a lot of time and energy. But I, as you said, I also hold multiple leadership positions within sports chiropractic and I have been able— blessed really to be able to do my real passion, which is travel to treat athletes all over the world. So I was in Barcelona a couple of weeks ago for actually for board meetings. So I wasn't treating athletes, but I have a really wonderful opportunity coming up. First taste of kickboxing, I was in Jesolo, Italy for the Kickboxing World Championships. And so I'm happy. I'm really excited to be going back and hopefully see some of the athletes that I worked on last year. do some really great things at the European Championships.

So, oh, that's phenomenal. Yeah, that is amazing. And I know you were recently at World Games as well, is that correct?

Here in the States, I was. Yeah, so I was part of the 54 chiropractor delegation at the World Games along with someone you know really well. That's actually where he came up with this brilliant idea to get me on to chat with everybody. So So yeah, the World Games was phenomenal. Yeah.

Awesome. Well, I am very excited to kind of chat today. And as I mentioned earlier, you've had kind of a very long journey within sports chiropractic. So I'd love to—

Bike. And then 8th grade, I moved from Houston to Phoenix. And so when I was in Phoenix, I got really heavily involved with playing volleyball and I kind of dropped everything else and started focusing on playing volleyball. My sophomore year, I started playing year-round, so I was playing club volleyball year-round all the time. And I got a scholarship to a junior college in Northern Arizona.

Nice.

Yeah. So I went and played volleyball in Northern Arizona, in Prescott actually, for a couple years, and then got recruited at a Division 1 university in Greensboro, North Carolina. Called North Carolina A&T State University, and I played volleyball there for the final 2 years of my 4-year eligibility. Well, because I transferred schools, I, I wasn't able to complete my bachelor's in 4 years, so I had another year that I had to go to school. And funny enough, my senior year playing volleyball, we did our team bonding, and I was finished with my eligibility playing volleyball, but one of the girls on the bowling team unfortunately had to leave school for health reasons. And they were short a person. And so the bowling coach was talking to the volleyball coach about it. And she's like, well, why don't you try out Shay? We did this team bonding thing, and she seemed to know what she was doing. And so I tried out for the bowling team, and I made it. And so I spent the second half of my first senior year, I guess, on the bowling team, and then the entire next year. So with the NCAA, you get 4 years of eligibility in one sport or 5 years in 2 sports. So then I— was able to be a 2-sport athlete, volleyball and bowling, at the Division 1 level, which is pretty amazing to me.

Oh yeah, absolutely.

That's incredible. So yeah, and then I realized that, I realized that after a year and a half at the collegiate level, I was way better of a bowler than I ever was a volleyball player. I probably should have stuck on that route, but here we are. It's fine.

Oh, that's amazing. So remind me to never go on a team building event with you at a bowling alley.

You will It's funny because this is always the question, right? How did you get into chiropractic? And I wish I could say, man, I had this really amazing chiropractor that changed my life. Unfortunately, that's not the case. I had no idea what chiropractic was until after I graduated from undergrad. So I never grew up going to a chiropractor. Even playing at a Division 1 university, there wasn't a chiropractor around. Wasn't ever even talked about. I'd never heard of it. No idea what it was. And so the med team that I dealt with was primarily athletic trainers, and because of the extent of my injuries, orthopedic surgeons, a lot of physical therapists. So that was pretty much the beginning and end of my, my sports medicine team, which is ultimately why I became a chiropractor. So after I had graduated— Or undergrad, excuse me. I I did want to be just like a family provider, sports med doc, whatever. And I met and was speaking with this chiropractor and she kind of explained to me what it was. And I was just completely blown away. I was like, how have I never heard of this before? This is so crazy. And so I went back to Greensboro and I found a sports chiropractor. And I was also looking at potentially being a physician's assistant as well. So I was kind of up in the air. And I called the physician's assistant from my surgeon's office and I called this chiropractor. Never called me back. The chiropractor did. And so I went and shadowed him. The very first day I was like, this is it. Like, I'm done. It was like a light, sirens going off. Like, this is amazing. This is exactly what I want. That was the direction I took. I didn't really look back. I didn't really Looked at any other opportunities, I was like, that's exactly what I want to be doing. And so then I started the hunt for how does one go really— I, I probably could have done my due diligence a little bit. I, I don't regret going there at all. I had an absolute amazing time. I had a great experience. It was just that was— I kind of had blinders on and I was like, all right, well, I'm going home. And so made that decision and moved home.

Oh, that's amazing. Well, and I think oftentimes speaking to docs over the years, location does really factor into it when it comes to where they decide to pursue their education. And likewise, I'm curious to hear like what that sports chiropractor told you that was like, okay, this is for me. Like, I really like what he's doing. I really like how this practice runs, or I really like the fact that he gets to work with athletes. Like, For you, did you always want to be a sports chiropractor once you had that exposure to one, or did you ever consider other specialties within chiropractic?

No, sports chiropractic was pretty much it. I knew even before I knew what chiropractic was that I wanted to be in sports medicine. Given my— I missed playing time every single season because of some injury. I always look back, right? Hindsight's 20/20. So I'm like, well, had I Had access to chiropractic or knew what chiropractic was back then, maybe my body would be in better shape than it is now. But then I also think everything that's happened to me along my chiropractic career has happened when it was supposed to happen. Everything has worked out the way it was supposed to work out, which is funny. And now, especially being having a new practice and everything, I live by that faith where I'm like. Okay, stressed out about this. It'll work itself out. It always does. And that's always just shown me this is what I'm supposed to be doing.

Yeah.

And I think that, that faith and that knowledge that I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing is why I'm so passionate about service to my profession. So that's very—

I love it.

Full circle. Yeah.

Now, when you entered chiropractic—

Medical school, right? However, I didn't realize when I decided to go and transfer to the school in North Carolina that their biology program was geared towards research. It was not pre-med. And so even though I was, I was taking biochem and organic chemistry and the chemistries and things like that that I needed to take, biology majors were not allowed to register for human anatomy classes. Which sounds really funny.

Yeah.

Instead, instead, we had to take a comparative vertebrate anatomy class, which was every vertebrate except humans.

Oh no.

Yeah, it was so strange. And so when I actually graduated from undergrad and I was planning on going to school, to medical school even, this is before I decided against that, I knew I had to go back and take these anatomy and physiology classes in order to meet it to get into chiropractic school. But I did complete those before I made the transition. So yeah, the biology program we were in was really geared towards research. So it was a lot of statistics, a lot of microbiologies and things like that that we take in chiropractic school too, but aren't really geared towards what we, what we do necessarily.

Yeah.

So yeah, I mean, I have a bachelor's in biology, but it didn't really— it wasn't, it wasn't the pre-med route. It was like a more of a PhD research route.

Gotcha.

Okay. Yeah.

Now let's talk a little bit about your time at TCC. From trimester 1 on, did you try to look for opportunities to get in front of athletes, work with teams, volunteer? Like, what did you do above and beyond?

I had a year to apply to medical school, so 1 year turned into 2 years, and I was working and I had a good job and I was enjoying it. And then when I found out what chiropractic was and I decided to go that route and I moved back to Houston, I had to defer chiropractic school for 2 years because I ended up injuring my other knee and had—

No.

3 knee surgeries within a year. And I ended up in rehab for like a full 2 years trying to recover from these injuries. And so it ended up deferring chiropractic school for 2 years. And then I was like, okay, I need to go. If I don't go back soon, it's just going to be that much easier for me not to go. So then I gave my employer a couple months' notice and I said, look, I'm going back to school. And so when I started chiropractic school, I was a few, probably about 5 years older than— apart from school, I was also working part-time from home and I was doing some other things. So I was juggling a lot of stuff when I was going through chiropractic school.

Wow.

I think those extra few years motivated me a little bit more to focus on what happens next. So it was really important to me early on in my chiropractic school education that I started networking and meeting chiropractors as early as possible, right?

Yeah.

And I remember some of my classmates asking me, like, why are you doing all of these things? Like it doesn't like how how do you have time to do all these things? And I was like, it's a priority for me. I was like, for me, it wasn't my top priority to make straight A's in chiropractic school. I was like, I was working. I had a life. Like I had other things. I had bills to pay and stuff. And I hadn't. I had a going to what's now called Engage with ACA, and I was traveling to Washington D.C. to lobby. On Capitol Hill on behalf of chiropractic. So I did that all 3 years I was in chiropractic school, and it really did show me the importance of being an ACA member, of supporting that organization and driving chiropractic forward as a profession, right? And we got hit so much with the lawsuits that the AMA was trying to eradicate chiropractic with and just all of these things. And When you look back at it, yeah, chiropractic became a thing, what, in like 1895? But it was in the '70s when chiropractic was still illegal in some states. And so that really hit me, hit home for me, because I'm like, man, this is— profession as a whole was one of them. And so because of that, I ended up sitting for 2 years as the vice president of our SACA chapter. Well, then I knew that I wanted to be in sports medicine. And so we didn't really have a sports council per se. It was kind of started by a couple guys in the tri ahead of me. And so I kind of worked with them to get it up and running. And so then I started going to the ACA Sports Council symposiums as a student. So I went all 3 years as a student. My first one was in Scottsdale in 2012, and then— New Jersey in 2013, and then Portland in 2014. So I kind of worked my way through all of those. And those were really important for me to meet sports chiropractors, right? To meet people who are doing what I want to do. And so—

Yes.

So that was huge. And then after my first year going to the ACA Sports Council Symposium in Scottsdale, I met a female sports chiropractor and I referred her to a class that was both my clinic requirements I got to do 2 preceptorships, and I really got to get out there and see what was there. And I didn't have to worry about what am I going to do when I graduate, because I could have gone anywhere, and I had a lot of opportunities when I graduated. And so for me, that was the most important thing. That's amazing.

Well, and it's so important, and meeting people, getting to know chiropractors within the profession was so instrumental because then when you— it does come time to graduate, you have your pick, you have some choices, and you put in the time, you volunteered, you showed up so that they have a better idea of who you are as a professional. Even though you're not a licensed chiropractor yet, they have an idea of what type of professional, what type of employee you would be.

Exactly. Yeah.

I love that.

This is all preparation for the future.

Yeah, absolutely. So in terms of the leadership roles that you've served on, you know, especially those as a student and even now, do you feel like there's a gap when it comes to women taking these leadership roles? Do you feel like there's some work to be done in that respect, or insight could you give from that standpoint?

It's interesting because when I was a student with Sports Council, specifically sports chiropractic, and I think that's really what guided me to continue with the organization, was here, here are these women who are not only excelling as a sports chiropractor, but they're also leading this national organization of other sports chiropractors. And so it really gave me the motivation to work my organization. My first year out of school, one of the female presidents contacted me and she said, hey, would you want to— would you be interested in stepping in as our secretary? And I'm like, well, I'm just a year out of school. Like, I don't even know what the heck I'm doing yet. And she goes, you know what, your experience on our student board, I think, has really groomed you for this opportunity. I think it would be really important for you to do this. And I'm like, okay. And so I stepped on the board and I served a year as secretary, and then I served a year as second vice president, and then I served a year as first vice president, and then I ran unopposed for president, and I spent 2 years as president of this organization. And I have the distinct— they are mentors to me. And so now I'm just finishing my third year as president of this organization. And so it's so So great to see now we have just as many, if not maybe 1 or 2 more females on our national executive board than males. And so it's really awesome to be working with these women who are empowered sports chiropractors.

Mm-hmm.

So for me as a sport— like as a female chiropractor, a lot of people just assume that you're going to be pediatrics and pregnancy. which is fine. I know a lot of women who specialize in pediatrics and pregnancy, but I wasn't really interested in that so much as a student. I knew sports medicine was for me just given my background, and it was really important for me to protect the next generation of athletes from the things that I had to experience as an athlete.

Yeah.

And so that was— that's really what drives me as an ath— as a sports chiropractor is I've been there. I've been that athlete and I want to be that. And so nationally, at least from my perspective dealing with the organization, the Sports Council, we have a lot of strong female sports chiropractors.

Mm-hmm.

And so I think that's very empowering even for the next generation. I think even our, our student board is all females right now, which is amazing. And so just knowing that the next generation of sports chiropractors are going to be strongly female or a large portion of them female, I think that's wonderful because we, we have our own perspective. There are a lot of things that I can do as a female sports chiropractor that my male counterpart wouldn't be able to do just because of kind of how things are in society nowadays, right?

Yeah.

So I think it's, it's almost beneficial for me being a female because any of those restrictions Somebody uncomfortable, somebody in an awkward position. So, so I'm just really proud of sports chiropractic as a specialty for females.

But then when you look at sports chiropractic, it's also the fastest growing specialty within chiropractic.

Yep.

So I think it's really phenomenal to see a profession that is on the whole male dominant having female leaders within sports chiropractic. And you're right, there is Definitely some benefits, especially when it comes to treating female athletes. I mean, we know the statistics about females and their injury for certain sports versus males. So I think that's, that's a phenomenal step forward. So what advice would you give then to students or new docs that are looking to get involved, that are wanting to volunteer or possibly serve? Are there committees they can get involved in? Like, how do they— Start? How do they get linked into these things?

Yeah, absolutely. There's quite a few things actually. So a lot of schools have, and those opportunities may come from that, from the involvement in that club, because most of those clubs have a faculty advisor who is a sports chiropractor or somebody who is interested in sports chiropractic and are trying to make those connections local events, or they may be able to teach you a technique or teach you how to tape or something cool like that that goes a little bit above and beyond your education. So my first piece of advice is always get involved in a club at school. And then the second thing would be the ACA Sports Council does have student membership. And so being a student member of the ACA Sports Council allows you to kind of tap into those potential events and educational opportunities on a national level. You get to connect with like-minded students at different campuses across the country. So that would be my second piece of advice is look into getting involved in Sports Council on the national level. And like I said, FICS is, is kind of for students who are able to be there and kind of experience that so early. So those opportunities are there as well. And then my other thing is look for those local opportunities, right? So for TCC students specifically, we live in Houston. Like, there's races all the time. There are sporting events all the time. If there's the local soccer teams or the Pop Warner football or anything like that, volunteer. You know what I mean?

Mm-hmm.

Take a day out of your week. weekend or a couple hours on a Sunday and go talk to the coach or go talk to the league organizer and volunteer your time to maybe be there for injury prevention. Or if somebody does go down on the field, that you can try to handle that situation. But most sports chiropractors— and, and we really are trying to grow out of working for free, but every sports chiropractor that I'm doing it at a college level, weekend warriors across the gym, whatever it is, Get your hands dirty, get in there, get that experience, because you cannot learn those things in a classroom.

Yes.

You can learn the basics, but you're not going to get that experience in a classroom. And that's really what it takes to move you to the next level of being a sports chiropractor, is how much experience do you have? What sets you apart from other people? How much work are you putting into it? From your side, right? And that's the thing is is with sports chiropractic, nothing's ever really given to you. You really have to like claw for everything, which is part of the fun. You know what I mean? So even when I'm going and traveling the world with events, I'm still paying to get there. I'm not paying to. I'm not being paid to be there. So it's I I do it because that's what I absolutely love to do. And so it's the same thing when I'm working local events. It's the same thing when I'm working events on the national.

Oh, absolutely. Well, and I love to call it the learn it or earn it principle, right? So to become the doc that you want to be, there's a portion of it that's learning, and that's the education piece. That's your certifications. That's your additional education beyond your, your basic degree. But then there's also the earn it side where you have to volunteer at those events. You have to work those sidelines. You have to get your hands on athletes and get that experience. So in terms of your learn-it piece and your learn-it side, what type of courses did you take outside of chiropractic school, both as a student and then as a doc, that prepared you to become a true sports chiropractor and work with athletes?

Yeah, so when I was a student, I didn't want to pay for stuff, right? Like, it was hard because I was traveling a lot as a student to different seminars and stuff, so I didn't really have a lot of extra money to be paying for, for, for classes in class. Same thing with Factor. I brought Factor to TCC way back in the day, and I got to take that class for free. Same thing with board preparation classes. Like, I was the one who encouraged all of my classmates to sign up for these courses, and then I got to take them for free. So doing those little extra things, it really benefited me because I got to take all these classes I wouldn't have been able to take beforehand that really prepared me for things that I do on a daily basis. So those were the 2 big ones. And then of course rock tape was really big in school. And so learning just those different things, so like a soft tissue technique and then a bunch of different taping techniques were really great. And then when I got out of school, I started doing a dry needling course or I started taking different taping courses or dynamic tape and just different things like that.

Mm-hmm.

And so you really do get to learn in what you are doing with these athletes and Ego has to be checked at the door.

Yeah.

That's the biggest thing sports chiropractors for is because a vast, vast majority of them are very humble. They're very open to learn. Even some of my mentors, some of the people that I've looked up to my entire career, they're always open to learn.

Oh, good.

They are never of the mind where I know better than you because I've been doing this for a long time. That, that kind of attitude and ego has no place in sports chiropractic, let alone chiropractic in general. And so lifelong learning is a huge part. There's always something new to learn.

Yeah.

Whether it's a soft tissue technique, whether it's a rehab— I've been a little bad at it, but the first probably 5 or 6 years of my career, I was doing triple and quadruple the number of CEUs required for my licensure because I wanted to learn as much as I could. And so that— and now having dealt with COVID and now everything's virtual and you have these opportunities to take these classes without the cost of traveling, so important not to get bogged down in everyday life that you're still willing to learn.

Oh yeah.

That's a big part of it. Yeah.

No, absolutely.

Anything you can get your hands on.

Well, and what's kind of cool is this whole Factor webinar series was started out of COVID So 2020 happened, docs were quarantined and having to close their doors. And we as a team had to step back and be like, okay, how can we still continue helping them learn and still continue helping course instructors get their material out there when we can't be in person? And when your practice is at a standstill, you don't necessarily wanna pay a lot for CE courses. So that's how they achieved amazing things within the profession.

Mm-hmm.

But they are the most humble people you will ever meet and have a great love and a desire to help the next generation and to help connect people.

Absolutely.

So wrapping up a bit because I know we're getting close to our 1-hour mark, I have a few different rapid-fire questions I'd like to ask you, just some things that we ask everyone when we come on. So tell me a little bit about what's in your practice treatment toolkit. What do you use? What are your in-office go-tos? And then what are your things that you take with you out in the field?

Yeah, so I would say the 2 soft tissue treatments that I utilize the most in my office are cupping and dry needling, both for very different reasons. I still utilize instrument-assisted soft tissue mobilization every once in a while, and I do some manual stuff. My Hypervolt runs out of battery every single day, the biggest thing in my office. And then when I go to an event or go sideline, obviously I usually can't take my needles with me. Because it's not in our scope everywhere. And cups are kind of cumbersome to take with me. So I always have a Factor tool in my kit. And then I do have the Hypervolt Go, which is the travel size Hypervolt that I take with me. Between you and I, I end up using it more on myself than anyone else after, after being on my feet and treating athletes a lot. But when I, when I'm working events, I do mostly manual stuff. So myofascial release or fascial manipulation, things like that. So that your hands and your manual skills will always be your most important things to work on. But I try to utilize as much as I can. And then of course I tape quite a bit when I work in events as well. Events— when I was working up in Montana and I was terrified one day that somebody was going to break a leg and I was going to freak out and not know what the heck to do because even though we took emergency procedures classes, In school, and I took an emergency procedures class in my CCS education. It wasn't enough. I still didn't feel comfortable. Everything was in the abstract. There wasn't a whole lot of hands-on that came with it. And so when I— that's why I did my EMT. I don't ever want to be caught off guard.

Right.

And so that's been huge for me. So assessment, anytime you can learn that. I did an SFMA class, and I, I don't utilize it every day in my practice, but there are parts of it That stick in my brain a lot that I see a lot in pattern. So that's a big part of it as well. But you can't assess your patient quickly, efficiently, and confidently.

So of the classes you took in chiropractic school, which ones do you use most in your daily practice? I know that's kind of thinking back a while.

Yeah, no, adjusting for sure. Adjusting. All 4 parts of adjusting. Ortho, obviously, because examination, a lot of orthos. Rehab, soft tissue, of course, duh, that should be really high up there. And then probably, I mean, obviously anatomy. And I would say the other one would be like differential diagnosis.

Yes.

I don't, I don't do imaging in my office. I used to when I was up in Montana, so I would utilize a lot of imaging interpretation. But since I don't do that really now, I don't utilize it as much as I used to. But I don't, I don't think that would necessarily be appropriate for this audience, but one of the books that I'm reading— I have a tendency to read a smutty time when I'm relaxing, but what I'm reading business development-wise is a book by John Maxwell called The Leadership Handbook. And so I'm always trying to grow my abilities, my tactics.

Absolutely. I love that. And I think that's important too, as you were talking about earlier. You're continually learning. So whether that's developing yourself as a professional, as a leader, or clinically, all of those are very important. And then finally, what CE classes are you looking forward to taking next year? What's on your list?

Oh, what is on my list? Well, I still have a few more for this year, able to make it to one of their classes, but they're always— also love to take my dry needling level 2. And get a little bit more advanced in my dry needling. Considering— oh, and I would love to get into DNS. Probably one of my biggest mentors, Jonathan Wilhelm, he's been doing DNS. He keeps talking to me about it, and I'm— I've wanted to do it for a couple years, but it's— it hasn't been a priority. So I definitely want to look at that more.

Yeah.

But more acclimated with rehab and those assessments and the developmental stages of life and what people can work on in order to get those things. Because that's a huge thing when people lose the developmental movement. It tends to hinder a lot of other things. So.

Absolutely. Well, awesome. Thank you so much for being on today again. I really appreciate it. It's been a great conversation. Thank you for having me. I think you've given some really great advice and information for the next generation or even for docs that have been out there for a while. Of course, Thanks so much. Thank you again, Dr. Stark.

Thank you.

That's it for today's episode. Be sure to tune in for episode 62, where we kick off a new training called Let's Hear It for the Boys: Pelvic Floor Dysfunction Diagnosis and Treatment Options for Men with Brittany Sudbrook, a fellowship-trained orthopedic manual physical therapist. There's no refuting that there are some distinct anatomical differences between men and women, but one thing is not more commonly talked about: they both can develop pelvic pain. Studies have found that at least 1 in 6 men are dealing with persistent pain in the pelvis, making chronic pelvic pain syndrome the most common urological diagnosis in men under 50. In this 2-part series, we will learn common pelvic floor diagnoses for men, Learn how to properly screen and identify pelvic floor dysfunction and when to refer to a pelvic floor physical therapist. We'll also talk about why it is essential to establish a mutual relationship with a pelvic floor physical therapist and how it can benefit your patients. You won't want to miss it. Episode 62 drops in 2 weeks. You can subscribe to The Factor Podcast on Apple, Spotify, iHeartRadio, or the podcast app that works best for you. Give us a 5-star rating to help us grow the show. Every little bit helps. And last but certainly not least, please be sure to visit our show notes so that you can see any special promotions from our sponsors, as well as view a link to the video version of today's interview. Likewise, if you found value in today's discussion or any of our podcast episodes, please be sure to pass it along to a friend. We would really appreciate your help in spreading the word and getting this great content out there. We'll see you next time. Hey guys, if you like what you heard today, I encourage you to visit our website at factor-store.com. That's spelled F-A-K-T-R-store.com to find out more information about all that we have to offer. We have a variety of online offerings as well as our hands-on Factor Rehab System course scheduled in cities around the globe. Be sure to also Also check out our event calendar and bookmark any of these upcoming live webinar dates coming up in the near future so you can join us live.

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