Adapt, Evolve, Overcome with Chuck Allen

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Hey everybody, Jim Johnson here, your host with Contractor Radio with another amazing episode with a pretty awesome guest today. I'm excited to bring this guy on. He has done some pretty amazing work over the last three years and we want to talk a little bit about this idea of giving back and why it's so important to what we do and how sometimes our dreams don't exactly go the way we want and what we can do to maybe get ahead of those and then get into that position to start giving back and then what that giving back does for you. But before we get into that conversation, as always, we got to pay the bills. We're going to hear from one of our sponsors today and get the referral. If you don't use get the referral strongly suggest checking them out. It is amazing what they can do to boost the referrals for your business.

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Everybody, welcome back to the show. Today's show again is about giving back and I got a special guest on today. This guy is the general manager and owner of Rio Blanco Roofing. He is which is a multi branch company. They've only been around for three years in their new form and we're going to talk about some of that today. And he's also a consultant. He travels around the country, helps contractors out all over the place and I would classify him as a bit of an influencer now. And we're going to talk a little bit about that today and why he's doing what he's doing consistently being out there on social media. And so hey, welcome aboard today, Chuck Allen from Rio Bronco Rio Blanco. Sorry I miss said that. Welcome aboard man.

Thank you, Jim. I appreciate the opportunity to be here and I want to start by saying one real quick thing if I could. I've been in the industry for a long time and you're one of those people that I've always had a high level of respect for. This is the first time we're ever speaking in person. So I've been looking forward to this for about 10 years. I appreciate you having me on today.

I appreciate that. One thing that says I've been around a while, and two, hopefully I've been pretty consistent in who I am. And so I appreciate that. Thank you very much. And likewise, you know, I've been paying attention to you for really, the last couple of years. I started to notice that you were putting yourself out there more. You were being a lot more consistent on social media. You were sharing valuable content. I'm like, hey, I kind of like this guy. Don't pay attention. And I'm a little bit reserved about who I bring on my show because I want to make sure that who I bring on my show is somebody that's consistent in their actions and does right by the industry. And every once in a while, you might get fooled, but I don't believe that's the case today because you have been consistently what I would call valuable to an industry that needs folks like you. So thanks for being on the show today.

Yeah, it's my pleasure.

So first order of business, give us a little bit of background, you know, kind of how you started in the industry and kind of your track and what brought you to where you are today.

Yeah, definitely. It's been a long and winding road for sure. This is my 24th year now starting in the industry. And to be honest, the day that I started, I didn't wake up that morning knowing that I was going to be in the roofing industry. It was kind of a crazy deal. I was doing some manual labor for a living, and I was in my early 20s, or I wasn't even in my early 20s yet, but I was. I was already tired of the fact. And I realized that lifting heavy things was probably not, you know, not going to be something I really wanted to do, which is ironic based on what ended up happening. But I was driving home one day and there was a roofing supply company on the side of the road that had a sign up looking for a truck driver. Went in and I applied for the job. I got hired that day, and 24 years later, here we sit. I've done just about everything in the industry at this point. I started off as a flatbed ground drop delivery guy. I graduated up to the boom truck, the conveyor, you know, loading roofs by hand. And I actually did that for 12 years, which is why I kind of walk around with a little bit of. A little bit of a pain look on my face at times. But it was well worth it. In 2010, I got an opportunity of a lifetime to branch off of that company and actually go open a location in Charlotte, North Carolina. That was my first real jump in life where I kind of moved outside of the comfort zone and really wanted to just see what I could do on my own. So I relocated halfway across the country from my home in Ohio. We did that, we built it up pretty good and it just wasn't my thing. I'd been in distribution for a long time, but I was always an outdoor kind of moving around guy and it put me in an office 80 to 100 hours a week, which was like being in jail and I just couldn't do it. So kind of indirectly ended up here in Texas in 2012, started working for a company down here. I did that until 2019, at which point I made another quick move. I joined up with ASAP Roofing, based over in Tyler, Texas and I started actually in their Indianapolis location. I was there for just a few weeks and the owners came down and we met. And I'd known Clint and Joseph, Clint Koppel and Joseph Kozell for a few years through mutual connections online and such. And we were in some mastermind groups together. So I knew who they were and they were great guys. They presented me with an opportunity in 2019 that changed my life, which basically was the, the Rio Blanco opportunity. And what this was was a roofing company in San Antonio that was basically started by a gentleman. He retired, sold it to another guy. That guy was really, really good. But I think life might have just kind of gotten in the way and you know, things don't always go the way we hope. So the company was, was shuttered. It was non existent at that point. So I was tasked with the opportunity to move to San Antonio where I literally had only been one time for a half a day in my life. I went to the ire back in like 2011 when it was here and I said, heck, let's go man, let's do this. We rebranded it, basically resurrected it from the dead. I hired my first sales rep and off we went. And it's, it's been amazing. Within that first 18 months we were able to open up two additional offices in Tyler, Texas, and now I've got one here in College Station where I currently reside. So I had no idea three years ago that this was even going to be a reality or even a possibility. I just, just came up on my three year anniversary when I made that move, it was January and I didn't even know in March that that this was going to be the thing. So it's been Kind of cool. I've gotten to see a lot. I've gotten to meet a ton of people over the years. I've got friends all over the world, and I've got to travel. So. Pretty. Pretty unique story, but it's one that I definitely wouldn't change for anything.

That's awesome. Well, first off, you and I have been. You must have started in the roofing industry in 1998.

Yes, sir.

That's when I started. Same exact year. So we've been around it for 24 years. A very different path, but we're. We're in a. In a similar place now. It was interesting to me. You. You. You talked about the situation with the distribution where you got to open your own location, and that. That just didn't fit. It didn't work out. It wasn't really, like, the dream wasn't fulfilling, and so maybe a sense of failure or whatever that went on there, but here you are now. This Rio Blanco thing, kind of, that guy was going through the same thing, right? Like, he was probably good at what he did, but he didn't really understand business the way he may have needed to. Maybe it just wasn't the right fit. Right time, right place, and here comes. Here comes Chuck, and it's like, all right, man. Reclamation project. I get this opportunity to come in and maybe have a bit of retro. Is that how you feel? Like. Is that what's been going on in your head?

Oh, absolutely. From the moment this was presented to me, I'll never forget that evening. I was sitting there with Clint Koppel and a friend of mine, Kevin Burrell, who owns a company over in Georgia, and that we were at a country club in Tyler, and the opportunity presented itself to me right there. And I didn't hesitate at all, because I've been for, you know, seven or eight years. It had just weighed on me heavily that it didn't quite work out the way that I'd envisioned it. It was a little bit different than what I'd expected. Since I was a little boy, I've kind of been an entrepreneur in spirit at least, and I've always kind of felt like I needed to kind of be the guy in charge. I don't know if that's right or wrong, but that's the way I've always felt. I'm sure I could get differing opinions from whoever you speak with, but it was kind of my thing. I was doing the supply deal, and it was all right. I mean, I had some good opportunities to really grow and develop and understand Business, but it also just. I'm an outdoor, high energy kind of guy. Being in that office for 80 plus hours a week was really detrimental to my health and my mindset, and I could feel myself changing, and it was not for the better. So I just went in one day and I told the guy that I was working with there that I just didn't want to do it anymore. And, you know, we kind of mutually agreed. Okay, let's part ways before this gets any worse than it is in your mind. And, you know, like I said, I had an opportunity to open a roofing company in New Orleans as soon as I left, and I opted not to do it. It just didn't feel right at that time. I didn't think I was quite ready.

Good move, by the way.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, boy. I went down there and observed everything, and I realized this is probably not. Not my thing yet. So I came to Texas. I got to work for a really great company here locally. I got to learn the ins and outs of how a roofing company works. You know, I was always on the other side. I've met so many different owners from all over the country, and everybody's a little bit different, but I wanted to get with someone that understood how to run a successful business and, you know, leverage that. That knowledge later on down the road to, you know, springboard myself into something like what we've got here. And while I didn't anticipate it and it wasn't my true vision, this is what it is. And Rio Blanco now is me. And, you know, I've got the. Got the branding all over the place, and I throw our name out there, and it's. It's really cool because I go to the events like I went to Roofcon, and people in Roofcon knew who Rio Blanco were that I've never seen before. You know, manufacturer reps are saying, hey, we watch your podcast or we see your live videos, and it's been just an amazing transformation. But my motivation was, honestly, it was selfish. I wanted to get back and feel like, okay, that is a distant memory now, and what you're going to build here is going to be your ultimate legacy. So that's the way I'm viewing it on a daily basis.

That's cool. And a little bit of thinking about ourselves isn't a bad thing. Right? I don't have anything against that. I believe that we are wired to feel fulfilled, and it kind of defines who we are. Who's Chuck Allen? Like, how would you define who you are?

That's an interesting question. And I'm still trying to figure that out, I guess, on a daily basis. And I think we all are, as we go through life, trying to evolve into what we actually believe we're truly meant to be. I've spent the last 24 years understanding that I'm not a material delivery driver anymore. I'm not a guy that. That's gonna, you know, go out and physically do the work. And I'm very grateful for that realization. I'm glad I figured it out before it was too late. And as we've moved on in this, you know, I've gotten with a new group of people who really have changed my mindset completely. And it kind of coincides with what you said, you know, about three years ago, is when I started getting more consistent with what we're doing. I started putting myself out there a little bit more. That's 100% because of the surroundings that I put myself with. The family over at ASAP Roofing, we've got K socialized media as well in our organization. So that's kind of ingrained into us. You know, when I started the company, I had to utilize, you know, I had to utilize social media, really, to build the brand, because I moved to a town, San Antonio, where I didn't know a human being. And I'm trying to re, you know, restart a company that's already gone under. So that's kind of when you decide, okay, I'm either going to put myself out there or I'm going to live under a bridge for the next 10 years. And all of a sudden, the camera wasn't so scary. So now I kind of enjoy it. We have our own podcast. We do. And we do goofy videos all the time. I was the turkey that got shot for Thanksgiving dinner, and I was on the table, and we just have fun. We do goofy things as a group. I think the most important aspect of this is never taking yourself too seriously and understanding. You know, this is fun. We're blessed. We get to help people. We get to see people who are distressed because of the condition of their homes. And then we get to go through the process of saving that forum and, you know, the smile at the end of the day or the hug that you get from the happy homeowners. It's why I do it now. And I'm. I'm more happy now than I ever was when I thought about this as just a way to make money.

So. So I got a question for you. What are you doing when you're Having the most joy, like, don't put money into the equation. But what. What is it that you're doing? Like, if you can think about it for a second, you do this thing and you get joy from it. What is that?

It's amazing because this really has just come into my life within the past year. I've got a great consultant, a great friend of mine, Mike Coday, who's very well known in the industry as well. And my company is one of his platinum partners, which he's got a network of companies, and we all kind of work together. It's a beautiful thing. And Mike has given me the opportunity to go travel to some of the other companies, and those owners have allowed me into their building. They've allowed me to speak to their sales teams, to the management teams. I think that's the most fulfilling thing for me right now is helping people that are getting into the industry or maybe are looking for retribution like I was, that have had opportunities that didn't pan out, and they know that they're capable of doing more than they were given the opportunity. So that's. That's what gives me the most joy. Now. It's not so much about building roofs. It used to be that for years, I've kind of shifted my mindset now to, I want to give back. I want to help people develop, and I want to see people accomplish things that they don't even think they're capable of doing.

See that? I always think that who we are speaks so much to our character and who we are internally. Like, inside, there's this thing that gives us fulfillment. Sounds like, to me, the thing that's fulfilling you right now is the ability to serve others. Give back. That. And by doing so, it's naturally drawn in and been magnetic to the financial reward side of things without any intention of it being that thing. Would that be fair?

That is absolutely fair. I had no anticipation of having three offices where I'm, you know, I'm generating more revenue than I ever dreamt possible right now. I think it was just because I was doing the right things and people notice it. And, you know, you get around the right people and amazing things happen for you. That's. That's the only way I can describe life right now.

So if I don't know how old you are, Chuck, I'm gonna assume you're younger than I am. But we're probably pretty close in age. If we were about that time when Chuck is all said and done, like, hey, we're done with this roofing thing. I've accomplished everything I can accomplish. What are you doing? What are you doing then?

You know, that's an interesting question. And I've. I've really evolved with that thought process as we've gone along. If you had asked me three years ago, I would have told you I'm never going to retire. I'm just going to keep doing this forever because I love roofing. That's a lie. At this point, I want to. I want to look back on my career and say, hey, you know what? I got a lot of friends out of this deal. I met a ton of amazing people. I got to do some great things. I got to visit some places I never even dreamt of. And I just want to. I want to leave it with a positive. A positive vibe. I want to be remembered as someone that, that always strives to give his best, goes above and beyond, not just for his clients, but for his team. And, you know, I think that's really the. That it's legacy at this point. That's all it is. We were at roofcon, and that was one of the things, you know, legacy with, you know, leading with legacy and integrity. I want to help make our industry better, and I want my contribution to be recognized by somebody. That's. That's really it. You know, I'm a pretty simple guy.

I want to. I want to come back to that legacy thing. I gotta, you know, do the pay the bills thing, keep the lights on. And we love our sponsors, so I'm gonna, we're gonna go to there, but I want to come back. I'm gonna talk about this legacy aspect of things and maybe the meaning of that, and is it any different than impact? So let's talk about that whenever we come back, if that's cool with you.

Absolutely.

Awesome.

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So it's actually one of the reasons Why I like Atlas, they have this culture of serving their contractors and helping them build a legacy. And, and so, so describe for me what legacy means to you.

Definitely. And I will say this. I am an Atlas Pro plus gold contractor. I work with Atlas 100% and Stan Bastick is the man. So that's, that's a great fit right there. It's, it's all about, you know, the way that we work together, and that's why I work with them. So forgive me, I just got off track there with, with what we were talking. So legacy, you know, to me, like I said, I'm a pretty simple guy. I want my contributions to have a little bit of a lasting effect. I want maybe some of the younger people that I'm helping right now that are in their early 20s or people that have, you know, maybe not gotten everything they deserve so far to succeed. And for me, I think that's my legacy. I think if I can see some of these people that I bring into my organization that maybe are downtrodden or they feel like this isn't something I can do, you know, they kind of come in half hearted. I want to motivate people. I want them to feel good about themselves and I want them to go out and be successful. So to me, you know, I've had people that reach out to me more frequently than ever before that just say, hey, I'm inspired by your content. Which I don't know how my content can inspire anything. It's goofy, but it's fun and we have a great time with it. But that right there is. That's the thing for me, I don't think that I understand, I don't think any of us do at this point, how far reaching we really are with what we're trying to put out to the public and what we're trying to give back to the industry. To me, that's the coolest part. When I have a complete stranger come up to me at a show and, hey, I saw you over here and I was almost nervous. I didn't even want to come talk to you. I'm nobody, you know, I. To me, that's amazing. And it's one of those things that I never get used to it because it's just so cool. But that's what my legacy is going to be. That's what I want it to be. It's not going to be so much about building the company. Obviously, that's part of the deal and that's the vehicle to help me get to that. But it's more personal than it is business related. And when I got with the ASAP team, that was really what impressed me the most, is you work with a lot of people, not just in our industry, but in our industry, it's, you know, hey, money, money, money. This is a big money deal. You can make six figures without having to work that hard. That's the big pitch to get people in. I got in the room with Clint and Leanne and Joseph when we were just getting ready to start this partnership, and we were talking about our ultimate dreams and our ultimate goals, right? And the one that really, it hit me was Clint Koppel, who said his goal is he wants to build an amusement park for less fortunate families. Because he, you know, he knows what it feels like to be on that side where you can't afford to take your kids to Disney World or you can't take them to, you know, Six Flags even, or something local. And that really just impressed me so much, because here's a guy who came from humble beginnings. They all did. And I think that's really what's the most special thing about this. But rather than thinking, hey, I'm going to be a multimillionaire. I'm going to live in a mansion. I'm going to do this. I'm going to build a theme park to help less fortunate families. And from that day, my entire mindset shifted, and it became more about what can I do for everybody else, rather than what can I do for myself? And it's been the most fulfilling thing ever, because I never really realized that I was being selfish my whole life, and I didn't know it. I always thought that I was there for anybody when they needed me, and I probably was, but it just. It changed everything and kind of magnified it by a hundred. So that. That's really my thing now is I just want to give back. I want to help people. I want to show people how to do what I've done. Because, like I said, there's nothing special about me other than hard work and enthusiasm. And that's all you need, really. You can get pretty far in life just by being happy and being nice to people. And, you know, skills are. I guess they're acquired along the way. I've gotten a few, I suppose, but I'm definitely not an expert in anything other than having fun and being happy.

That's awesome. That story about Clint. I'm always looking for this connection, right? Why we're doing what we're doing and who we are, why we're doing what we're doing is usually what will give us our purpose or passion, meaning those type of things. The grit to get through the grind every day. Right. And when it's connected, that purpose is connected to who we are. So you kind of described a little bit about him of coming from, you know, maybe not a situation that was the best for financially. Right. Socioeconomically. And because of that and who he really is, he wants to do something to serve that purpose of his. Just because of that experience and his character and who he. I, one of these days I got to get him on the podcast because I'd love to talk about that. How does, does that relate to you in any way? Do you see those things in your own world? That the reason that you're doing this over here, this purpose, this passion thing, is because of what you've dealt with, who you are and your character.

It is. I mean, I think we all go through struggles in life. Obviously I've never met anybody that's perfect. I've never met anybody that's made the correct decision 100 of the time unless they, you know, just came out. And even that's probably not the best decision in modern times. But it, it changed who I am because, you know, like I said, I always thought more along the lines of, I want to make this company successful. When I was doing the, the roofing supply in Charlotte, it was more about proving myself. It was a self centered reason and I never really thought about that until years after the fact. And it was like, wow, you know, I was going down there to prove to the people that put me in a position that I was the right guy. Even though I knew I wasn't. I, I took it because you'd be foolish not to.

Right?

I'd be, I'd still be delivering shingles if I hadn't made that decision. But it definitely, it showed me that that's not the most important thing in life. Working all those hours, proving that you're the hardest working guy. It doesn't matter. At the end of that day, I walked away from that company and I never turned around. I never even thought about it again, except for, you know, times like this. And I mean, I was working 100 hours a week for two and a half years. I don't remember 2010, 2011, and most of 2012, quite frankly, I don't have any memories of it. It was work, go home, work, go home, work, go home. And I realized I was in my early 30s, I was think 32 at the time. And it's like, this is going to kill me. I'm not going to live to 40. I'm going to. I'm going to fall down and be dead before I hit the floor. And I just. I had to take that step back and realize, okay, it's not that important. If I don't do this, if I drop dead tomorrow, they're going to replace me probably with someone by the end of the week. Getting then with the ASAP family, with the Koppel family and the Kozell family. It really showed me that our industry has great people. I've known hundreds and hundreds of owners all over the country. There are some really great ones. There are some really, really bad ones. I never understood exactly how many really great ones there were until I got with this organization and I started really seeing. You know, I've got people now that let me come to their businesses and speak to their teams. And we. We don't work for the same company. We did a conference in Tyler last year where I was a keynote speaker with a bunch of our guys. We had owners from all over the United States fly in. I was standing up there talking. It's amazing. My main office was in San Antonio. I was standing in front of the crowd, and the gentleman that was right in the front row was the guy that I'm directly in competition with in San Antonio. To me, though, you know, if we can give him some information that helps him just a little bit and it elevates our industry, then that's what we're doing. There's no information hidden. We understand what we need to do, we understand what works and doesn't work. And I think we all want to help elevate the industry, right?

Yeah. When we don't, you know, when we. When we're the opposite of that, I always think of that as the scarcity mindset. Like, if I give somebody something, they're going to take all this stuff away from me. And you're like, there's only so much of it to have. And when you operate from that, you operate in a place of fear. But if you operate from this place of abundance, right, like, hey, there's plenty of work out there. I know only a few are going to listen to what I say, and even less are going to execute on what I say. But if I can help them raise the bar just a little bit, that raises the bar for me, too. And it also pushes the ones that aren't willing to make those sacrifices and do things the right way down. It starts to separate, hopefully the Right choices for the consumer versus the wrong. Would you agree with that? Is that how you look at it?

I couldn't have said it any better. That's. That's exactly it. You know, if we can just elevate the good ones just a little bit more, it's going to push some of those out because they're not going to be able to adapt. They're not willing to. You hit the nail on the head right there. I know it's a contractor show, but boom.

No, no. So, hey, like, great use of a pun. That was well done. You said the word adapt. And this industry is moving fast right now. I don't know how much you've noticed, but I've noticed like there's all kinds of stuff going on. There's companies trying to go public, there's acquisitions being made, mergers, there's joining up of like you guys and ASAP and like that kind of thing and going and helping people all over the country. What do you see for the future here in. In our industry?

I think it's going to continue moving forward like it is. And you're absolutely right. The last three to five years have just been amazing for what's developed. You know, I started in the age of go out there with your tape measure, you know, draw the thing up, spend an hour and a half measuring it, go back to your truck, work up an estimate, you know, write it down, hand it to them. You know, now we're at the time where we've got, we've got programs that can measure roofs for us in seconds, we've got drones, we've got all kinds of crazy stuff. We've got CRMs that we never would have even imagined, you know, and that to me is amazing because there are a lot of old school people, I think, that are unfortunately not willing to adapt or they believe that, you know, hey, paper to pen is the best way. Face to face always works. That's awesome. But I can also tell you I've done millions of dollars of sales with people I've never even met before. And we're in that age right now where being able to understand that and being willing to change with the times, it's going to separate you. I feel like my sales career developed because of that ability to adapt. I didn't know any better when I got into residential sales. I was out there yakking on about products and products and products. And this is what this shingle does. And I didn't realize that nobody cared at that point. Point. And I had to Evolve. If I would have just been the guy that sat behind the counter of a supply company trying to sell that to a homeowner that could not care any less, you know, I would have been out of this a long time ago. And I had an epiphany one day that actually led me to that. You know, I was about to quit the industry because I didn't think I'd get it. And it was Mike Code, one of his little videos that he did when he first started. He was walking his dog, and he was talking about, you know, you have to change with the times. You have to evolve. And I give that man all the credit in the world. I wouldn't be sitting here if it weren't for him. And, you know, that changed my entire mindset. And from that moment, I realized nobody cares how much a bundle of shingles weighs that they're getting put on their roof. They care that it's gonna look awesome. They care that's gonna protect their family. They like the color. You know, it's that simple. I went from an hour sales presentation to five minutes, and my closing has gone from, you know, 5% to. I only work referrals now, so if I lose one, it's my own fault, but doing pretty well with it. And that evolution is what did it for me. You know, if I would have stayed where I was, who knows?

So, yeah, this. This idea of adapt, evolve, overcome, right? Like, this is. We're sitting here, you know, as a business contractor, coach, pro, and watching what's going on, technology and what it's doing, how you're able to bring groups of people together to solve problems. This idea that, hey, sharing of information is a good thing. Not like, up until about six years ago, that didn't exist. It was like, hey, man, I got this stuff I ain't telling anybody right now. You got all these guys out there and they're sharing information, and information is so available today. Where I. Where it's. I struggle with it is how many people just go, I don't do it that way. Why do you think they do that?

I. I think there's a couple different reasons, honestly, Jim, I think, number one, it's just fear of the unknown. And I think it takes a special person to jump outside of their comfort zone. And that's why not everybody does this. You know, I've got people that look at me and think I'm insane. Which there's probably a little bit of truth to it. But, you know, maybe I'm not going to argue too Hard on it. But at the same time, I look at people that, that go to work 9 to 5, Monday through Friday, and I'm like, oh, like, I couldn't do that. So there's different mindsets. There's different. Like you said, you. You're either scarcity or you're an abundance mindset. And that applies to everything in life. I always teach my guys, you know, if the first thing someone asks about when they come in the door is the pay, you know where their mind is. You know, they need to get paid pretty quick. They need to make some money. That's what they're here for. If it's, hey, can I build my own network? Can I develop myself? Can I go out and do my own leads? Okay, now, you know, you're working with that as well. So to me, I think a lot of people are either falsely confident that what they have is going to work forever, because what's worked for the last 10 years is always going to work. Right. That's. That's wisdom for some folks. And I just, I think it's just. It's an inability to understand, quite frankly. And I hate to say it like that, but it's true. We're not the same as we were five years ago, like you said. I mean, I remember the first time I saw you speak was at the Atlas Roadshow in Houston back in maybe 11 or 12, right. A long time ago. Stan was there doing the spin the wheel, wearing a money suit. It was. Right.

It was 2013.

Okay, 13. Yeah, I was, I was brand new in the industry. And I'll never forget that. I still use your. Your direct mail technique that you taught me that day, to this day. But I remember being in that room and I saw.

I got a question. I got a question.

Yeah.

Was that as contractor coach pro, or was that when I was at Acculinx?

That was Contractor Coach Pro, I believe 2013.

So prior to that, I was the director of sales for acculinx. And so I did a lot of stuff with Atlas there too. So just want to make sure. I didn't want to get the dates wrong.

No, it was 13 for sure. You were contractor coach Pro. I remember that vividly. And we still use that. I teach that stuff to my guys to this day, and they're out making, you know, successful opportunities for themselves with it. But when I was sitting in that room, there were a lot of different company owners and salespeople there. And the one thing that I was really aware of keenly was there was a group over Here that was conversing with each other, and everybody's kind of talking and joking. And then there's a group over here and then a group over here and a group over here. And these are all the same people from the same company. And you could see a division even at that point. There's some guys over here that are wanting to work and network and help. These guys over here think they've got all the answers and they want to make sure none of us can see it. And, you know, I like being on the side where we're sharing because, you know, like I said, there's more than enough. If we all roof one house a day for the rest of our lives, guess what? There's still going to be millions and millions and millions of opportunities for everybody else.

Yeah. There ain't nothing new. There's just a reiteration of something that somebody's done before.

That's it.

And when you think you have a competitive edge, there's somebody out there that's way ahead of where you're at. This has been one of the biggest epiphanies as I've gotten into this. Coaching a little bit more and getting to interview some pretty awesome people. The world is moving fast. There's more than you can keep up with and got to make really good decisions. Surround yourself with really strong people that are in areas that you may not have as much interest in, but you need to be aware of. You talk about your salespeople like, that's been a big part of this conversation.

When.

When my. When a guy comes in, we don't always talk about money. Like, it can be other things. What's the number one goal for you when you're doing that? Like Mr. Sales Guy, you're interested in working for us. What are you trying to accomplish? There's.

I'm trying to. I'm trying to put forth an opportunity that's going to change their life. And I'll tell you a great example is the first guy that I hired for my company, his name's Jeremy. He's down in San Antonio. He's the branch manager now. I interviewed a bunch of people when I got to San Antonio. He was probably the close to the 60th interview I did before I pulled the trigger. I knew what I was looking for. And I just. I wasn't seeing it. Wasn't seeing it. This guy came in and my company was still brand new. It was just me. The office was still empty. I put my desk in there, but other than that, it was myself. And a little cricket that lived there. You know, I talked to him about business and we actually formulated our business structure off of that conversation. But I hired this guy and what I was really impressed with was I didn't have an opportunity immediately in front of him to make money. And I was very open and honest. I said, look, dude, this is a brand new thing. I'm literally just moving here. I'm gonna make this huge. You gotta believe me, right? And I convinced a complete stranger that I was gonna make it huge. Right? And he's still with me. We're still. I mean, we talked just a couple minutes ago on a commercial deal we're working on in San Antonio. But what brought him in and what really impressed me was it was never about the money, it was about the personal development. And I said, look, you're going to make the money. We've got online training platforms that we've developed in house. I think our training is the absolute best in the industry. You can learn on your own time how to be a roofing salesman. You can understand everything about the systems. We've covered everything. There's hundreds of videos, it's Lightspeed VT that we actually developed in house. That was pretty appealing to them. But what I got him with was we featured Grant Cardone at that time as well. And I said, look, I've got Grant Cardone sales training and this is a personal development minded person, right? Then he said, let's go, I'll sign up right now and let's get started. And he's been with me since then. You know, that was the first guy I had. I didn't even have any furniture. Now we're looking at putting us into a bigger office down there. And he's going to kind of be the head of that whole process. So I'm looking for people that want to improve themselves. When we interview people, I tell them we are a personal development and growth company. We're going to teach you how to set and achieve goals. And we put on awesome roofs while we're doing it as well. But it's never our focus. You know, we work with Atlas, you know, they're great roofs. So what separates us, we're going to teach you how to do it. We're not going to throw you out into the public and say, go sign some deals, you know, do whatever you have to do. We're going to show you how to do it. We're going to teach you the proper ways to be ethical. And you know, if you run with the opportunity, the sky's the limit. We've got a branch manager over in one of our offices that's 20 years old or 21. And my goodness, if I was 21 years old to have that opportunity, Lord knows where I'd be right now. And, you know, go ahead.

You just shared a piece of information I don't want anybody to miss. You're not a roofing company.

I don't view it.

You're a personal development growth company. That's a big difference, knowing that identity of your business. So. And there's a lot of companies, like, we're a competitive sports company. We are a. There's. We're a professional organization. We are a leadership and growth company. We are personal development. Like, all these different things. A recruiting company. Like, I know so many companies that they identify with that, like, hey, that's our identity as we recruit and we build deep. But I would love the ones that are the personal development companies, because that speaks to me. I think that's what people want to do. They want to reach their potential and think and find the right place to reach their potential. And it's not a line of bs, right? Like, that's usually a big deal. Like, oh, yeah, we do that. And then they don't. But you follow it up. You actually, you sell a vision. You engage them in a vision, then you educate them, and then you set an example. Like, these are all things that we talk about from a leadership side of things that there's seven things we got to do all the time. You're doing the first three. Pretty dang amazing and so well done. Awesome job.

Appreciate it.

I love that identity. That's super cool. If you were going to give a salesperson one piece of advice, what would it be?

I think it would be, I know what it is. It's value your time, understand your worth, and value your time. We do a lot of things in our industry for free, and free has zero value to it. It's crazy because I'm part owner of this company. I'm the general manager of a multifaceted business. And I had a buddy of mine this morning that was calling and complaining because I hadn't gotten a free estimate to his friend yet. And it was like, man, you know, no matter what you are, as long as you can devalue yourself to the point of being free, you're. You're nothing. You don't have any value. So I want to teach my guys, you know, understand you don't get time back. You can. You can make money. You can go Home. And you can re energize, but you cannot get the time back. We just had a big storm over in Longview, Texas last night, and the first thing I told him was, nobody wins a prize for getting one roof and 20 different neighborhoods. Don't stretch yourself thin. You know, focus on one spot, dominate. Take over that area, and as you continue to grow, you're going to get the referrals in the other areas. I think a lot of people just, they want it all, and they want it all really quickly, and it's a, it's a quick way to get burned out. So I always want to make sure that I let my guys know, hey, this is how much you have to do to achieve the goals that we've, we've set forth. Because I ask every person we hire, how much do you want to make? How do you have to get to that path? And we literally give them the entire path. We line it out step by step, and it's up to you. At that point, you're either going to do it or you're not. That's your, your decision. I've seen a lot of people that had a ton of talent that didn't have the heart, and, you know, they washed out, they didn't make it. I've had guys that maybe didn't have as much talent, but they put in the effort, and they just worked and worked and worked, and they got to the point where they were extremely successful. So, you know, I want people that care more about helping. And as crazy as it seems to some, I want people that aren't focused on it just for the money. The money's there.

The money will just come if you do the right thing. That's the easy part, is the reward for what we do is tremendous. The effort that it takes and the willingness to be disciplined and grow is the hard part, at least in my opinion.

It is like you said, I mean, you can tell everybody everything, but they've actually got to go out and apply that. And that's where people get separated. You know, you can learn as much as, as humanly possible, but if you don't ever do anything with it, the guy that's, you know, marginally talented, like myself, is going to just step up and say, heck, man, if he can, if he can't do it, I'll just try. And, you know, if I fail at this, I'll just try again until I get it right. So it's all mindset. I, I, I hire mindset. You can teach the skills, you can't teach intangibles.

Yeah, let's talk. That's great subject. Do you find there's a lack of drive out there with people?

Well, I don't want it to be like a political thing, but I think right now the world that we live in is conducive to maybe not being a super highly motivated person. There are opportunities now to make decent money for very little effort. There are still a ton of people out here that want to live the American dream, that are willing to go out and bust their butts, that are willing to do what it takes to be successful. And my job is to find those people, to bring them into our organization and facilitate that for them. We filter out a lot more people now than we used to just because of, you know, hey, I can make more money sitting at home sometimes than I can going to work. It's hard to motivate yourself when that's the case. It's not the case for me, thankfully, because, you know, I couldn't do it. But I think there is a little bit of a lack of drive. I hate to sound like the old, the old man here in the industry now after 24 years, but back in my day, you know, we were, we were, we were working a lot harder, I thought. But see, I'm sure we all think that.

Yeah, I, I don't, I personally don't look at it that way. Like, I can remember, right? Like, hey, me, all my buddies, most of the people I was surrounded by, like, dude, how do I get ahead? Like, it was dry. Like, I gotta work hard, I gotta put a lot of effort in. And, and I. And what was driving us was this American dream thing, getting ahead, those type of things. And I don't think that's still the driver that it used to be. And so we've got to figure out now, like, we got to be a little bit more of psychologists of what's this person really after? Like, if they're really. Like, if we can't figure out what they're really after, we'll never help them find their job. I believe every person on this planet has drive. There's just out of alignment. Um, in other words, there's a gap. Like we talked earlier about who and why. Right. And I think while you were at the distribution thing, there's this gap between who and why you were this person over here, but you're over here doing it for these reasons. And that gap was there. And there was no connection or alignment. Caused a lot of friction. And at some point, the Obstacles just got so much, you're like no more. Right. And so when we can take a this gap and close it a little bit and say, okay, who are you? What are you? Like, who are you inside? What's your character all about? What feeds you, what fulfills you, what makes you happy, what makes you joyful? And we say, okay, that thing is what gives you joy. Okay. This is how we can align it with why we do this. And when you do that, it's magic. It changes the way people perceive things because they feel that they are valuable and they feel that likewise you're valuable to them. So it's this thing like, I think more people out there have drive, they just don't know how to connect it. Does that make sense?

That makes perfect sense. I don't think I could explain that any better than you just did. And I'm going to go back and listen to this when it's published just so I can can remember that as you said it. But you're right, everybody's got something that they're passionate about. It's just finding that. And in a lot of cases for us, we find it through the fact that it was there and it got killed at some point. You know, and let me tell you.

Why I think it doesn't exist the way we think it should.

Yes.

Because I think we are living in a surface level, outside world driven distraction, full life. And so we only see things on the surface. We're only catching information at a very high level and there's no depth to it. We don't, we don't even give ourselves time to think because we're letting somebody else think for us by feeding us information all the time. But when we take time to think a little bit, reflect a little bit, it gets really quiet and we actually start talking with ourselves. My friend Reggie Brock talks about this a lot. And when we get into that level of things and if we listen a little bit, we'll start to hear what is it that's actually driving us? Where's the missing piece? And I think it takes a few questions. I asked you one of them. One of the questions I ask people all the time is like, what do you do that brings you joy? What's the funnest thing that you can imagine doing? And you're like, hey, going and helping people, helping these other companies learn some of these things that I've learned. Consulting them, speaking in front of them. And that to me sounded like serving and helping and helping other people. Okay, how do we take that Thing that you really enjoy, feel fulfilled by and go over here to this thing that we're going to do in sales in the roofing world and apply that. How can I show you how that applies to roof? Give you fulfillment, connect those dots. Drive comes into play. Passion, energy, all that other stuff to jump out of bed happens. I want to share that message more. I hope you share that message more. I want to see like, I see you sharing that message, why I have you on here. Like you're sharing it and it's like I'm seeing more and more people share it. I'm seeing you, I'm seeing Reggie Brock, I'm seeing One of my favorites is Eric Ogram is be authentic. Like, be authentic to ourselves and who we are. If we do that, everything else will take care of itself on the other end. Chuck, man, great stuff. What's what, what do you see Rio Blanco accomplishing over the next, I don't know, three, five years or so?

That's an awesome question. I'm looking to continue our growth. I want to do one to two branches a year and I've already got the next four picked out. So it's up to me now to build my team to get everybody in positions to where we can move up together and continue to level up, continue to fill the level that we're leaving and moving upwards towards within the next five years. I mean, I look at monetary deals and I don't even know what a realistic monetary goal would be. You know, 10 million, 20 million, 100 million, who knows? My guys at ASAP did 20 in under three years, so anything's possible. I didn't do 20 million in three years, certainly, but I want to just continue my growth and my development. I want to continue to meet the people in the industry that are like minded, like we are. Nothing I like more now than going to a conference or going to an event and just seeing my friends, you know, helping people in my markets to be better. I, I just, I don't know. I want to continue what we're doing and I think maybe that the true vision hasn't even been uncovered yet. I don't even know exactly what it is. I'm gonna wake up one morning with an epiphany and it's gonna be like, oh my gosh, you know, we need to go into whatever direction we're gonna end up going. But right now, the way I've got it looking is I want 25 to 50 offices before I, you know, decide to check out. Realistic, who knows? Yeah, Realistic. Maybe not. But what, what's realistic in life? Everything's possible, right? Someone's done it before. I was watching a video that Joseph Hughes did with a company over in Boise, Idaho yesterday. He put a video out and as I was listening to these folks talk, it was like, wow, these guys have the exact same vision that I do. But the thing is, they've already accomplished it. They're where I'm trying to get. So it gave me the, the, the drive to say, hey, look, this isn't the impossible dream. Sometimes it feels like it is. Sometimes it feels like, you know, the world's about to crash around you and, and who knows what's going to happen. But the fact is everybody goes through it. And being able to, to have these conversations and relationships with higher level people that have been there that understand what we're going through and can help you get through it, you know, that's been the difference maker for me in my life and I want to continue to do that moving forward. So my ultimate vision is I'm teaching a bunch of people how to be leaders and they're teaching people how to be leaders. And you know, maybe my legacy is completely different. Maybe 10 years from now I want to have 5,000 people that said Chuck Allen did something positive for me. We'll see.

I have no doubt that that's going to happen, that, that I think your number is a little small. We'll see how that changes. You mentioned doubt there for a second. And it's human nature, human behavior, that we all experience it. And the thing that we're most worried about is letting it set in like that's, we all get it, like we all have it. But we have to guard against this setting in aspect because once it sets in, it is like a virus you can't get rid of. Right. Like it just self perpetuates itself. How do you avoid letting doubt set in?

Oh, I don't know that I do. I mean, I think that we, we doubt things constantly. Right. One thing I don't doubt is the team that I've put around me. I've, I've got a hundred percent faith and confidence in everybody in my organization, the leadership, all the way down to the guys that are cleaning up nails on the ground at the job sites. I put together amazing group. I think we're all loyal to each other and we believe in each other and where we're going. And that's, that's been my, my big thing. You know, I want to be around people that I believe in we were just talking about how we live in a world now that's kind of social media driven. I don't know too many people that post their problems on social media. And I think that is one of the main reasons why so many people jump out there and give up so quickly. I think expectations are unrealistic nowadays and I think that everybody believes, you know, hey, if I just go out here and start doing this, I'll be driving a Lamborghini in six weeks and I'll live in a mansion. And it doesn't work that way. You know, you struggle. When I got to San Antonio, I lived in my office for like six weeks because I didn't even know where I was at. You know, I had no idea if I was in a good neighborhood or not. That's real. I didn't post any of that on social media. I posted myself standing on the roof of a mansion saying Rio Blanco. You know, nobody knew it was an empty building. Nobody knew that. I was extremely worried that if I don't do this, I'm going to look stupid for one and I'm going to, I'm going to fail miserably and who knows what's going to happen. So you have to just push it out. You got to fight through. But I do think that there's a huge issue there and I think a lot of people get more confidence in themselves earlier than they should. I think people believe 100% in themselves where they should probably believe in themselves 80% and then understand what they're actually doing before they jump out and do it. But hey, that's the world, right? You've got to make that decision. And we always say if you wait till you're ready or you wait to the right moment, you're going to wait forever. So double edged sword, really.

Yeah, man. Boy, there's so much more I could talk about there, but I want to be aware of your time and we all have important things to do to serve others, whether it be our people, other businesses or our clients. I want to thank you. Thank you very much. It was a great conversation today. Highly valuable. I think the listeners today are going to get a lot out of it to apply to their own businesses. And I want to offer something. You said you want to raise the bar here with the people in your area, you and I, if you want to get together with me, we could throw something and invite them all out and let's do a little content for them, a little lunch and learn whatever it is. Like let's let's help these folks. And it didn't cost anything. Just show up. We'll help. And I think that is the way to get back. If you're up for it, that's up to you.

I'm 100% on board. You tell me when and where, and I will be there, and I will throw Barbie.

Should we throw a barbecue into the equation?

I was gonna say I'll bring breakfast or lunch, whatever you want to do that. That would be an amazing opportunity for me personally. And, you know, like you say, the stronger we are in numbers, the better we can be for the entire. The entire group.

So thinking about starting this barbecue in business group, right? Like, if anybody knows me, follows me on social media, I love to barbecue.

Yes, sir. I'm very jealous of your pictures, believe me.

But I also love this business thing and thinking deeply about it and solving problems before they ever happen, because I don't want. I'm tired of watching 70, 80% of contractors go out of business in the first three years. So maybe we. Maybe we'll start something like that if you're up for it.

I'm always up for that. And I'm going to throw an offer out to you as well while we're here. It's been a tremendous opportunity for me to be on your podcast. I have a podcast as well. It's not as. As renowned yet. I'm going to get 10 to 20 million. I'm getting 10 million views on that thing before this year's out, though. So I'd like to invite you at some point this year, Jim, to join me on Keeping It Real. I do a different version than our live version. That's kind of like what we're doing here. I'm gonna be interviewing some pretty big people in our industry over the next couple weeks myself. So that's just the next step for me into, you know, continuing to evolve. I never would have guessed a year ago I'd have a podcast. And we're coming up on our 50th episode, so pretty good stuff. I'd love to throw that opportunity out there. That, that invitation, I should say it's not an opportunity for you, but it's gonna make myself better.

It's an honor to be asked to be on any podcast that somebody would think enough of me to have me on. So absolutely, send me a link or whatever I got to do to get on board or just shoot me some times, and let's see if they can fit my schedule. And I'll be on. I'll be Honored to do so. I like your content. It looks great. This one thing about these podcasts, like, you see people jump into them all the time. It took me two years before I actually said, yeah, I'm going to do a podcast, because I was being asked to do it and that kind of thing. And I was kind of having this thought about it, and I'm like, hold on a second. That's like getting married. It doesn't stop, Right?

You're committed to it for sure.

There's no end to that. It's like, am I fully committed to do that thing for the foreseeable future and maybe the rest of my life? It is a consistency situation, and it took a lot for me to make that decision. It's one of the things when somebody's talking to me about starting a podcast, how do you make them successful? Like, oh, first off, you have to just know what you're getting yourself into exactly. And be totally dedicated to it. You're doing a great job with it. I think we just broke 110 episodes or something like that, and it's been a lot of fun doing it. We actually have an idea for a new podcast that we're probably going to do. So this has been a fun thing to kind of learn and do, and I wish you all the luck with yours. Thanks for being on the show today, man. Appreciate it.

Yes, sir. Anytime. It has been my honor. And, you know, like I said, this. This was years at the making. Jim, I've been wanting to speak with you personally, and I think we just hit a grand slam, so thank you for letting me be a part of it.

Absolutely, man. Thanks for being on board. Did a great job today. Hang on for me just a couple seconds there, and I'll be right back with you, okay?

Yes, sir.

All right, perfect. All right, everybody. That was Chuck, man. That was awesome. Owner, gm, influencer, podcast host. Just all this opportunity that this industry can create for us if we just give it a chance and actually put ourselves out there a little bit and do it for the right reasons when. Because we don't want to come back and bite us. And it looks like Chuck has accomplished something pretty cool. He learned that, hey, something wasn't right for me. He did not pursue that dream anymore because it wasn't aligned with who he was at his core. He got a new opportunity and he adapted, he evolved, and he overcame. We hope that you guys do the same thing. If you want to learn more about how to do that, how to establish what that dream is and figure out the identity gap for yourselves between who you are and why you're doing what you're doing, and to build the systems and processes you need to build an amazing business. Contact us@contractorcoachpro.com hop on our website Click the assessment link on our website. That'll give us some insight into you. And then we'll hop on our free coaching call. A real coaching call, not a sales pitch. We're there to help you that day, hopefully give you two or three things to give you your next steps with your business. If you like it and you become a customer, great. If you don't, we want to provide you value. Thanks for listening to Contractor Radio as always. Make sure subscribe Download rate this podcast, tell us what you think, tell us what you'd like to hear, and we will continue to bring you the best episodes we possibly can. Thanks a lot everybody.