"Ask for Chance to Deliver Value" with Navid Momeni

Hey, everybody. Welcome back to Contractor Radio. We're in like the 170s or 80s now on episodes. We're having an absolute blast doing this. This is our fourth year of doing Contractor Radio with this whole entire purpose to help you guys out there as home service contractors and general contractors to get a better control of your business so you can grow your business and find that personal and financial freedom you were chasing when you started your business. If you need help with any of that stuff, you can find us@contractorcoachpro.com click on the assessment link and there's a pretty detailed assessment. Takes 15 to 20 minutes to take. It's going to tell us everything we need to know about you. And if you take that assessment, we'll hop on a free coaching call with you, help you with your next two or three steps and hopefully serve you well that day. If you decide to be a client, that's wonderful. But if not, we're here to serve the industry and serve it well, responsibly and ethically to help you stay in business and achieve your dreams. On today's Contractor Radio, I'm pretty pumped. I don't get too often a guy on here that knows his game whenever it comes to sales. As many of you know, we have a coach here that does a lot of sales coaching and Chuck Toki, and then you have myself. I do a lot of sales coaching as well. And it's always awesome to talk to other coaches. It's just fantastic. And I got a chance to check this guy out. He's done some pretty amazing things. He's one of those guys that whenever he comes in, he. He dominates. And so we want to talk about dominating out there in the sales world. What it would take to do so maybe a little bit of controversy, some of those things that may have changed out there in the world. So I'm excited to talk to him today. His name is Navid Momini. He is from Sales Guru Global. And you gotta be a good sales guy if you're gonna come out of the gate with a name like that for your company. So, Navid, good to have you, man. Happy to have you here on Contractor Radio.

Thank you so much. Thank you for inviting me. I'm super, super excited. I'm not gonna lie to you. I didn't sleep last night. I was like, you know, I'm going to be at one of the best podcasts in North America. So thank you for inviting me.

Well, I appreciate that. I'll get you the hundred dollars later. Like we talked about that. And there's a sales guy right there. He knows how to build it up. That's awesome. So, Navi, give us a little background. Like, I'm going to assume that you didn't start out as salesguruglobal.com, like, there was a bit of a journey to get there. Why don't you tell the to listeners, like a little bit of the path or Reader's Digest version of how he came to sales guru global.com.

Yeah, absolutely. I've been doing sales for 20, 25 years now, and at the professional level for 18 years and at the leadership level for seven years now. I've been very lucky that I've worked in some amazing companies in North America. And there was a point in my life where some of my mentors, they told me, hey, you know what? It's time for you to put all this knowledge that you have here into a book. That's why I decided to publish a book last year which currently is a top seller in three categories in Amazon. And, and the title of the book is how to become a Sales Master. And it's for anyone who's in the sales industry. Doesn't matter if you're in B2B or B2C, from SAS, technology, financial industry, all the way to anyone who is in business of selling their products or services. And I have been, I've been very lucky that I've been going through this era of, like, I remember when I started sells, I was one of those people watching some of these sales movies out there. Like, you know, like, was it like Boilers Room and.

Ross?

Yeah, yeah. And that was the idea that I had in mind in terms of sales. Oh, my God. You know, this is, this is what sales is about, right? And then obviously pretty excited, then watch another amazing movie of Wolf of Wall street. And then I'm like, is that what sales is all about? You know, like you're, you're supposed to. To sell no matter what. And, you know, and all that. And then, then, you know, I had the opportunity to truly learn what does it mean to sell a product or service to someone? And then I realized there are lots of bad, you know, perceptions of salespeople and misconceptions about the whole sales industry. So what I've been trying to change is the way that people are actually do sales and the reality behind this beautiful industry. And I always say, you know, salespeople, their job is as important as, you know, doctors. And some of the people say, oh, come on, man. Like, you know, you can't compare them. I said, trust me, if you're a good salesperson, if, if you do your job properly, you can help so many of these business owners to come back to you and say, hey, you know what? Thanks to what you did, we avoid, you know, filing for bankruptcy. We avoid, you know, shutting it down. So that's the best feeling ever. So. But definitely we can get into that more of, you know, why do I say the same reason that. The same way that I say cold calling is not dead, it's the same thing that I say. Salespeople are like doctors, that I love that.

So first things first. I agree with you. I do not see sales as this thing of how much money I can make. I look at the money as like a byproduct of how good I am at what I do. And I have an opportunity to serve somebody well or poorly. The choice is mine. Sales is neutral. It's not a good or a bad thing. Although I do agree with you that the general perception of a salesperson, because I can remember, you tell me, like, my family, when I decided I was going to be a salesperson, I took a sales job. It kind of looked down on me like, oh, my God, 100%. Did you deal with that too? What was that?

Yeah, yeah. Well, for me, for me, you know, I'm coming from a very well educated family and, you know, my father's doctor and, you know, based on, you know, our culture, Iranian culture, if you are not a doctor or a lawyer or an engineer, you're a failure. Just as simple as that, right?

Yeah.

And I started actually studying civil engineering. And. And after a semester, I changed to hotel management, hospitality and tourism. And my father didn't talk to me for six months.

Whoa.

And yeah, because he was like, you know, this is like, now you're like a failure to this family.

Right?

Especially if you're coming from a background where, you know, all your siblings are master graduates, PhD graduates. And, you know, when I, when I graduated, when I became a. One of my first, you know, sales job, like, out of school, the first, first one was, you know, here, like selling, you know, door to door, you know, kitchen knives and all that. But then one of these, you know, first sales job that I got was, you know, being a financial advisor. And, you know, when my dad asked me about, you know, the, the nature of the work and what we have to do, then he was super disappointed. You know, he said, so are you telling me that now? I. And what made it worse was, and, you know, he's a. He's a religious guy. I never forget one night he called me. It was a Friday night. And he was like, son, where are you? And I said, I'm at a mosque. And he was very happy. He was like, wow, you know, good for you. That's amazing. You know, I knew you're gonna find God again and, you know, all these things. And after, like, five seconds, he paused, and he goes, what are you doing at a mosque? And I'm like, the honest answer or the lie? And he goes, the honest answer. I said, I'm here, you know, to. To find clients. I'm here for prospecting and all that.

Oh, wow.

And, you know, and he just hung up. He didn't again talk to me for a couple of months. And I remember back then, when I did that, like, all my colleagues back then, they were like, come on, man, you're crazy. You're. You're going one. You know, you're. You're just being extra. Like, who would do such a thing to go to a church or a mosque or a synagogue, you know, just to find clients to do prospecting? I said, people like me who are desperate, you know, and that's how it started. And when I started closing deal after deal after deal, then all my colleagues back then, they all started going to malls and churches. Yeah. So, you know, I always tell people when I used to go to, you know, like, shopping malls, you know, to find clients, you know, when I used to go to, like, you know, places, like, random places that nobody expect, you know, for you to be there to pitch. And I was. I was a guy, you know, I was a kid who was hungry, and I had to do it. But again, you know, the perception was, oh, my God, you know, you're a salesperson, and, you know, are you trying to sell me something? Especially when you're doing that cold calling. And, you know, so many sales people, they. They use or they still do, they apologize. They say, yes, yes, ma'.

Am.

Sorry, it's a sales call. And I tell salespeople, never, ever apologize for being a salesperson. And don't ask for a chance to pitch something. Ask for a chance to deliver value. There's a huge difference between these two, right? Because the shady salespeople, they do no matter what, to close. But the best salespeople are truly there to help you to get from point A, where you are today, to point B, where you want to be in the future, and be that salesperson.

It's really interesting the way you put it, because I've sold a few things throughout my career, and I've noticed that the things that I thought truly brought value, I had. I had no problem selling. Always did a great job. The things where I couldn't figure out how to create some value versus the other guys out there, yeah, it was just. It was a green bean. It was a commodity. There was nothing different about it versus anybody else's. There was no real passion or emotion behind it in any way. I didn't do very well at those. And it doesn't mean that somebody can't. It just means that I didn't see where I could sell the value to somebody else. Do you ever find that? Like, do you. Are you a little picky about what you sell? Like, you got to believe in the thing before you sell it?

Well, I mean, if you don't believe in a thing that you're selling, then there's no way for you to be able to sell it. Just as simple as that.

You know, those guys on Wolf of Wall Street, I don't know if they believed it, but they were making some good money. They believe in the making the money part, right?

Yeah, they believe in making the money part. And that's why, like, for me, that's one of the, you know, worse examples of, you know, sales people to follow. Because, you know, and not only that, like, you know, when we talk about controversy and all that before, you know, it's like, you see that often, you know, people see that. Like, I know there are so many of these, you know, fake sales coaches and trainers on, you know, Instagram and Facebook have millions of followers. And I've met some of these individuals, I've worked with some of these individuals where they actually got let go from. From, you know, where they were working. Why? Because. Because they had to lie to a customer to sell. They had to cheat to sell. They had to basically do shady things to sell. Like, they were pure examples of charlatans, right? And they tried to bring that and put it into these courses and sell it to a kid who has, like, lots of, you know, debts coming out of school and say, hey, you want to become a millionaire? I'm going to show you five ways, you know, to become millionaire within a year and all that. And for me, that's as equal as, you know, Wolf of Wallace street. Because, you know, what Jordan Peterson did, I think if that's the name of the. The individual basically was like, lying. Here's how you lie to people and you tell them, you know, you have these amazing stocks or whatever, and you're gonna make the money. And we saw the ending of that story, right? And there are so many examples like that that these people, they go on these social media places and all that, you know, just to sell their services and all that. And what happens is I interviewed this person two months ago, one of the worst interviews ever, right? And. But I'm like, I can see this kid has some potential, right? But I'm like, something is missing. And at the end of the interview, I asked him, you know, do you follow anyone? And it was like, yeah, in terms of the sales trainers, you know, I follow this person and this person and this person. And I'm like, oh my God. And I'm like, listen, I'm not going to hire you, but I'm going to actually coach you and get you ready for that, you know, next step. Because what you did today is awful. And thanks to those people that you're following, they're teaching you all these garbage and shits and then you come and then you deliver this. And you would never ever be able to get a position if you say some of these stuff that you said today, such as, you know, the kid said, you know, I said, you know, what are you thinking in terms of your follow up process? And he was like, I don't believe in follow ups. And I'm like, sorry, what do you mean? And he goes, one car close. Yeah, it was like, I don't believe in follow ups. Who, who likes the follow ups, you know, who loves to be chased and all that. I just do it right there. And if I. And I'm like, if you couldn't. And he was like, yeah, I just close it as loss and move on to the next. And I'm like, oh, God, forgive me. And I'm like, you know, like this, this is, you know, this is what some of these people are doing, right? So it's, you know, that's why, you.

Know, there's actually a stat out there about follow ups that you would increase your sales by as much as 30%. By as much as 30. Just by following up, just by making that second or third call after your first call, you would increase your sales. But do you believe that? Is that, Is that fair?

100%.

Yeah.

Before COVID it was nine to 13 touch points. After Covid, when people, especially so many people, when they, you know, the sea levels, the prospects start working from home, it was 19 to 23 touch points.

Yeah, that's. That number is 22 for me. That's the one. I know. So, yeah, that's right, man.

19 to 23 touch points. And we were talking about, like, you know, calls, voicemail messages, emails, you know, LinkedIn messages, Twitter messages, text messages, like, you know, any type of communication that you can get a hold of your prospect. But, you know, like, again, comes with some of these people. Yeah, Cold calling is dead. Bs Follow ups are useless. Yes. Another article that I. That I published that got some. Not controversy, but, you know, I said, do people buy from people who they like? Absolutely not.

And so that was the one I saw. I want to talk to you about. I really hate interrupting these videos, but I've got some important information for you. If you haven't tried out Atlas Shingles, you should, because they put you first as a contractor. They want to give you a competitive advantage out in the field so that you can win more sales and be more profitable. Check out Atlas in your local area, find your local rep, get hooked up with them today and start making more money tomorrow.

Yeah. And people like, seriously, man, that's not true. And I'm like, whoa. I was like, you know, you can be, you know, an awful person to me, you know, like, in terms of, like, you know, language and personality, but if you're giving me something that can help me to beat my competitors and be on top of my competitors and all that, I don't mind it. Right. Doesn't mean that you have to be disrespectful and, you know, and, you know, this a rude person, but at the end of the day, people buy from people who can see they're delivering value to them. Right? It's just as simple as that. And, you know, you don't have to have the greatest personality. Sometimes I jump on these, you know, sales calls and I tell the account executive, okay know, let's go, you know, pitch me. And, you know, they spent like, you know, 20 minutes of, you know, building rapport, right? And at the end, I'm like, what are you doing, man? No, no, no. But one of these guys told me, you know, if I be able to. To get you to connect with me in the emotional level, then there's 82% chance. I'm like, like, norman, you're making it very complicated. Yeah.

If it takes 20 minutes, you got.

A problem like that, it's all good. But then, you know, asking me, you know, things that, you know, like, just. Just tell me. Just tell me what you have for me, right? So obviously, that personality is very important, especially for, you know, one of those, you know, type of five sales personalities, that relationship Builders, you know, that's, that's their gig. You know, that's how they do it, right? They build rapport and they try to do that.

You know, do you think that's like the number one type of, not the, as far as skill set or production or anything like that, but as far as, like the number of salespeople out there, the majority are relational salespeople.

I mean, we have five type of sales personalities, and we have all of them, right? We have, you know, those reactive problem solvers, hardworking ones, lone wolves. We got, you know, the challenger ones, the relationship builders. But what I'm seeing now is very interesting. Kind of the old school type of salespeople, they're more like relationship builders. And the newer type of salespeople, they try to be mix of relationship builders and hard workers. And we don't have that many of those challenger type of salespeople and those challenges type of sales people, we always call them the best ones because these type of salespeople, they come out as experts in the industry. So. Meaning that, for example, I remember there was a time that I used to work at the American Express head office, and actually most of my clients were people in the H vac industry. Roofing, pot, lights, you know, basically electrical, plumbing and all that, right? And one of the things that really used to separate me and my other colleagues back then, our top performers, was from other cold callers. Because imagine that guy received like 40, 50 calls every day from people like me, right?

Please, God, yeah.

And, you know, the guy's doing his work, you know, the electrician or, you know, like a plumber. Hey, man. Yeah, what do you want? What are you selling? Right? And one thing that we did that immediately captured their attention was using the same language as them, right? And immediately the person goes, oh, wow, this guy knows about my industry, right? So, for example, if you're, you know, if you were calling an Edgevac person, we knew that who are some of the top five to eight suppliers that they work with? And based on that, we used to start a conversation and say, hey, you know, I work with lots of people in your industry that they work with these three to five suppliers. And I, I, I'm helping them to save 15 to $20,000 every month times about 12. That's how much I can help you to save. And the moment that they hear that, they're like, okay, let's, let's, let's talk, you know, because I work with these guys, with these suppliers, I spend, you know, this much with them, right? But it was immediately using something related to their industry to show yourself as an expert in the industry. If I were reaching out to a general manager of a hotel, I used to use the terms of that industry. You know, I'm not calling and say, hey, I'm here to help you to, you know, increase profit. No, I'm here, you know, to show you how I have helped your competitors to increase the RevPAR ADR, you know, like all the terms in the industry, right. And immediately go, okay, you know what, I want to give this person 30 seconds of my time. Those type of, the people are the ones today that they're pretty successful in every company and they're not shy of challenging the prospects when the prospect makes a comment that's not really important, that is not really related to and what I mean by challenging. Again, there's a difference between being disrespectful. Then you know, if someone says, you know, no, I don't think that's, that's really important, you know, in our industry. And then that's the time that you send us a customer, you acknowledge what they said and then you say, did you know that you know, out of thousand people that come to your website, only 1% to maximum 2% of them, they convert into actual clients and you just say something and we call it educational sales. And you go quiet, you let them to think about that answer and then you're like 98 of these people, they leave your website without you not even knowing who they were. And what are you doing today to capture that 98%?

I like it. It's, that's, it's so in line. And that's somebody that has gotten a lot of training, right. You've invested time and you approach it from a bit of a strategic thought process of saying, okay, I need to know their world like they know their world. But there's also, there's a tactical aspect to it as well. Like I've got to speak that right away, I've got to 100 let them know that I, that's, that's really good and I would agree with you. Now these five types, I'm familiar with them. I, from my experience just in, in my industry, not overall every salesperson on the planet, but in the industry that I work in with contractors, I think most are relational hard workers. I think that's who they are. I think very few but the highest earners are those challenger problem solver people. I think most are relational hard workers. I think that's who they are. I think Very few. But the highest earners are those challenger problem solver people. They tend to be very, very well paid. Whenever they can solve a problem, create some value for the person, and then also be the expert, this person they can rely on to come back and actually go, hey, wait a minute, I get what you're saying there. And a lot of people feel the way that you feel, but from our experience in working with so and so and so and so, they found that this particular thing actually helped them increase profit by 20% or whatever, save 20% on their energy bill, whatever it is that you're selling out there. If you do just a little bit of research so you actually have the data and the information to sell, to share with them, you can come across as like, hey, the expert. And people want to buy from the expert. Do you agree with that?

100%. 100. Like if you, if you use the same language as, as sea level, sitting in the, in the room with me every day, and this is like we were talking about, you know, those enterprise type of cells, right? We're gonna give you our time because I want to listen to you. I want to see how exactly you're gonna help me, you know, to how you show me how, what you're gonna do to simplify my life. Show me something that you're gonna do to make my life easier, something that I didn't already know, right? These are the things that, you know, you come out and say, Mr. Customer, this is what I'm gonna do for you and I'm going to help you with 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 5 common problems, main problems that people in that industry are facing, right? And again, you know, I always say, you know, don't ask for a chance, you know, to pitch, ask for a chance to deliver value. Right? And it's, it's very important. I always tell people that for me, if someone reach out to me, like I usually give them 5 to 10 seconds of my time. So basically you have less than 10 seconds to say something to capture my attention. Once you capture my attention within 10 seconds, then you have to keep my attention by giving me something that is important to me, that is relevant to me. That's what I want. What I mean by saying delivering value. So many times people reach out and say, I need 30 minutes of your time. You're like, 30 minutes of my time. You know, I work like, you know, like 14 hours a day. You need 30 minutes of my time for what? Well, I would like to tell you and how amazing our company is. We have won these awards, we have the best company. Like, then you see someone else reach out to you and say, hey, you know what? I need five minutes of your time. And you like. Five minutes of my time for what? Well, I want to show you, you know, how much money you guys are missing today and losing today that you're not even aware of because of this, this, this, this, this five common problems. And then I go, wow, okay, so five minutes of my time and you're gonna show me some things that even if I don't move forward, I can put in my back pocket. Yeah, sure, right. And you know, that's why, like, I go with my, you know, good friend, you know, Keenan, you know that he says offer minus ask, equal value. It's, it's a very important formula that, you know, we use it for our emails, but, you know, it's something that you can use it for any conversations that you have. Offer minus ask, equal value. What are you offering? What's your ask? And equal value. If your ask is a bigger circle than your offer, there's no value in that. But if your offer is a bigger SQL than your ask, then that's a value. And that was just an example that I gave you five minutes of your time. Let me show you something that your competitors are doing that you guys are missing right now. I help you with these three problems if you're dealing with it. If not, there are other areas that I can help you with. All I'm asking for is five minutes of your time, 10 minutes of your time.

That's really good and I agree on that one too. People's attention spans these days are so short. You talked about, you got this 5 to 10 seconds to like grab their attention. Is there, is there anything in that technique? Like, for me, my thing is to ask ask a question that I know is going to take some thought and drive some real emotion or value to them, like what's the question? And figuring out what that question is to start, especially if you're canvassing or cold calling or anything like that, what question can you ask the person on the other end that's going to grab their attention? Is that your approach or do you do something different?

My approach is, and the way that I teach my AES and my mentees is always lead with a problem. Just as simple as that. Always lead with a problem. Right. The moment that someone calls you, this is my name. This is where I'm calling from our company again, because I get that all the time. Every day we work with the like, of clients like Facebook, this and that. And you know, we have been, you know, winners of this award and that. And I'm like, just shut up, man. You know what, what do you want me to do? Like, stand up and give you a round of applause? Like, just tell me what you want versus the person will reach out to you a they can capture my attention if they immediately say something that shows they have done their homework or research about me. This goes on LinkedIn, this goes on cold emails. This goes on a cold calling. Hey, you know, like Navid, I don't know, before you start, I just want to say congratulations for, you know, for winning, you know, the awards for the best author or I really, you know, enjoyed the reading your article October 18, 2021 about this synthetic research about me. This goes on LinkedIn, this goes on cold emails. This goes on a cold calling. Hey, you know, like Navid, I don't know, before you start, I just want to say congratulations for, you know, for winning, you know, the awards for the best authors are the three things that I learned from it, you know, and immediately I go, you know what? This person deserves, you know, more time there. Or I really, you know, enjoyed the reading your article October 18, 2021 about this thing. Why? Because he or she has done the homework about me and my company, right? So that's one thing that you can capture their attention immediately. The second one is the and these are the three things that I learned from it, you know, and immediately I go, you know what? This person deserves, you know, more time.

Why?

Because he or she has done the homework about me and my company, right? So that's one thing that you can capture their attention immediately. The second one is don't call and say, you know, all this, you know, garbage. Just immediate you're a busy guy. Say, you know, all this, you know, garbage, just immediate nabbit. You're a busy guy. And I'm going to make this very quick. I work with lots of customers in your industry and I'm going to make this very quick. I work with lots of customers in your industry who are dealing with this problem. This problem. This problem. And after working with me, I help them to increase their revenue by 63%, reduce their churn by who we're dealing with this problem, this problem. This problem. And after working with me, I help them to increase their revenue but 63% reduce their churn by this much. Increase the things that are important to that person in their industry by this much. Increase the things that are important to that person in their industry. Okay, let's schedule a 5 minutes call, 10 minutes call to discuss this okay, let's schedule a 5 minutes call, ten minutes call to discuss this further. Do you prefer mornings or afternoons?

I love it. That's really good. Yeah, that's. That's some solid. You guys are listening right now. Hope you're doing what I'm doing because I'm over here writing some of these things down. I, I believe you can learn from anybody and everybody they ever do.

Prefer mornings or afternoons.

I love it. That's really good. Yeah, that's, that's some solid. You guys are listening right now. Hope you're doing what I'm doing because I'm over here writing some of these things down. I, I believe you can learn from anybody and everybody they ever come across. Even if you describe yourself as a sales master like I describe myself, or as Naveed describes himself as a sales.

Guru, Every day is a learning.

We're like, hey, man, I got a good one from that guy today. Like, I, I want to remember that one. So, a couple more questions. What's the biggest mistake that you see sales guys make during their presentation?

During their presentation or during the entire sales process?

Let's just start with presentation because I know a lot of the ones in the sales process, but this is one that I wonder how other people see it. And I think the listeners are wondering, like, hey, am I giving too much? Too little, spending too much time there, too much benefits or features? Like, what do I. I think there's lots of questions in that.

I love this. This is a great question. Actually, what I, what I see a lot is we call it product dump, Right? That's one thing that I would say, the biggest mistake, product dump. And what I mean by that is the salesperson, they just talk and talk and talk and talk. And then when they want to do a check in, right? This is how they do a check in. So they say, hey, you know what this is? You know, they're talking about the feature of a product or service. This is what he does. What he does. This, this, this, this. They talk, talk, talk, talk. At the end, they stop, they say, does it make sense? Right? Yeah. Does it make sense? And then the person goes, the prospect goes, yeah, yeah.

They always say yes. You know why they say yes? Because they don't want to look down.

Yeah. And also at the same time, or you, they say, hey, any questions so far? We're good. Any question? No. Okay. That's one of the biggest mistakes. If you're Doing that today, I want you to stop it right away because you have no idea, no idea how many lead, how many leads and deals you're losing just because of these tiny mistake. Never ever say, does that make sense? Because if I told you yes, would that really tell you if it made sense? If I told you no, would that really tell you didn't make sense?

Not at all.

Instead, especially if you're doing remote sales or over zoom or anything, just pause and just ask a simple affirming question, right? You want to ask them a question to repeat back what you just showed them and told them. Not word by word, but it's very. As simple as, hey, Mike, let's stop here for a sec. So based on everything that I've shown you so far, can you see how this can help you to increase your revenue? That's one way to do it. The second way, hey, Mike, let's stop right here. Compare this to what you're doing today. Or let's say, if you had access to this feature today, how would you have used it for your business? Right?

I like that question better because then they have to give you an answer that goes beyond yes or no.

And the person, yeah, well, if you even the first one, the person say, yeah, I can see it. Yeah, I can see this can help us to improve our, you know, churn. And then you go, why then now you're at the point that you like your question, the person goes, wait a second. What just happened? I just told you, I see the value. But then you say, but why? Why do you see the value? Why do you think it would help you to increase that?

Have them sell themselves?

And the person, if the person replies to that question. Well, because I see it. Because if I had this today, you know, I could have done this. I could have done that. I could have done this. You're like, exactly. Thank you so much. Thank you, thank you. Thank you so much. Right? I didn't ask you any questions. Never, ever say any questions so far. Instead, say, what questions do you have? Because any questions so far? Yes. No. Done. Dead end question. Okay, Mike, let's stop. What questions do you have? And actually truly wait for them. Don't say anything until they ask that question. Right? And this is one thing that I'm seeing missing almost every day where the person comes, okay, now let me show you this feature. Now let me show you this feature. Now let me show you this feature. Now let me show you this feature. That's one. The second one I would say is, well, not Asking affirming questions, but also, it's just like trying to oversell it. The. The products and service, right? Like, you know, like, I remember one time I went to. To this store and I told this guy, hey, you know what I'm looking for? You know, like, running shoes, right? And this kid was very, very excited. And I love the passion. You're looking for running shoes. And it. And it was a. Sure. You know, here are the running shoes. And I'm like, you know what? Yeah, that. That black one is good and all that. And it was like, okay, that's. Yeah, you should. Okay, let me tell you what. This black one, it has this thing in the bottom of the shoes. It has this thing. Then it does this. Then if you want to jump to go. And I'm like. And I'm like, you know, I was already ready to buy that black one, right? That is this. Then, you know, it gets to the point in the winter time, though, you know, it's. It's not good because it has the letter this and that. I'm like, oh, wait a second. You say it's not good in winter. Oh, okay. Actually, I'm looking for something that is also good in wintertime. Thanks, man. Yeah, because of that overselling that this person did, you know, they lost a client. And same thing happens for lots of people out there when they're selling their products and services. The person is ready to move forward, and that's the time for you just. Just. Just go quiet and just move forward. Oh, no, no, no. Let me show you this, too. I have this cool feature here. No, let me show you this. Let me show you that. It's like, you know, when I got my car, I remember, like, this guy was making that joke, like the, you know, the salesperson at the dealership, and he goes, you know, like, literally my conversation with him was so simple, and I was amazed. I'm like, man, you're very good. And he's like, why is that? I'm like, well, because I had this experience when I bought this other car where the guy was like, you know, yeah, but this car has this. This car has that. And he's like, yeah, man. Like, you know, I'm not going to show you something that you don't really care about. And the problem is, you know, so many times these salespeople, they think if they oversell it, there's a bigger chance and a higher chance of them closing. But they don't realize you're just hurting yourself.

Well, if you know your client and you listen to your client, they'll sell themselves 100%. Like it's that simple. So one of the things I noticed in the rundown on you was your unique approach to needs. Because this is what's happening. This is the reason why people do benefits and features so much, is there's no real needs analysis done for that person. So you're, you're covering everything instead of the things that they say they need or their hot buttons. So what's this unique approach? Because I'm, I'm interested in this because I have some pretty strong beliefs. I think people tend to almost do too much of like a survey up front. They ask a billion questions, try to figure out all the needs they want, and then tailor everything off of that. How, how does yours work?

This unique approach is again, you know, as I mentioned to you earlier, you know, I've had the, the honor to have some amazing mentors in my life, right? And these are like some amazing people that I'm always thankful to them. I give them shout outs in my book. And when it comes to, you know, when someone asks me the most important part of the sales process, no matter what type of products you sell, you know, tangible products, you know, software as a service products, you know, technology sells, you know, pharmaceutical, I said, the most important part of the sales process is discovery. That's the part of need assessment or need analysis. That's the part that sells is done, sales is done. At the end of that discovery, sales is done. And what I mean by that, people say, oh, no, come on, man, like, how is that possible? And I say, I tell them, I say, trust me, because at the end of that discovery, if you make me feel that, oh, my God, you know, I didn't know we were bleeding this much. And we are bleeding a lot. And just show me the solution, then your cell is thousand times easier versus me finishing that discovery. And be like, ah, do we really need these products, man? Right. Especially if it's multiple decision makers. They look at each other in their own, ah, what are we doing here, right? Versus actually people, you know, say, oh my God, just show me, just show me what you have. This unique approach, it comes from my good mentor Keenan, and we call it stripping, right? Stripping in, in discovery. And.

Is there a poll involved.

For people who are listening to it? You know, there's no, nothing related to, you know, pole dancing or anything like that. Okay, yeah, but the concept of stripping is basically, we say you're stripping through these layers of, you know, prospect and trying to go through that, you know, problem that they think they have. But by you coming and asking the right questions, you go for the root cause of the problems they have. And there's a huge difference. And I use this example in my book that I say, my doctor, I think the first time she did this technique with me without me knowing, you know, like it was 2012 or something. I was eating my food with my colleagues in the room and I started choking on my food. And it happened once and it happened twice, and it happened three times. Then I started eating my lunch. I'm like, okay, you know, if it happens once, it's a mistake, but if it happens, you know, couple times, you know, now it's too much. Night time I went home, I'm like, okay, let me eat. Now I'm trying to eat again. And the same thing happened. And I'm like, okay, you know what? I have to go to er. Went to ER and all that. And then a day after, I went to my family doctor and I said, I have to see his urgents, you know, and she was like, okay, and what's going on? I'm like, you know, I need a medication for my throat. And she goes, why do you need the medication for your throat? And I'm like, well, because I cannot swallow food. I almost died like seven, eight times. And honestly, I was, you know, panicking. I'm like, holy moly, what's happening? And my doctor was like, okay, can you, can you just drink a glass of water for a second? Because you're just, you know, I'm like, no, doctor, you don't understand. Like, you know, my father is a doctor. I know a lot about this stuff. You know, I just give me the, just that medication for my throat, that's my problem. She goes, no, no, just, just drink a glass of water. And then she asked me seven, eight questions. You know, how does it feel? You know, when was the last time you ate? Is it liquid? Is it this? Do you get heartburn this? Wrote down, you know, some of these barium swallow tests, endoscopy this and that, and then came back and said, hey, your problem is not your throat. You got gastritis and acid reflux, right? And for that reason, you know, you're having a hard time, you know, to swallow food, blah, blah, we have to put you on this diet, blah, blah, blah, and everything got fixed, right? So it's the same thing. Sometimes you're doing that discovery and the rookie salespeople, what they do is the moment they hear a problem or a pain Point, they write it down, they move forward, right? Versus pausing right there and try to dig deep and try to understand what exactly do they mean by that, right? So to give you an example, when a prospect goes, hey, you know what, like, you know, last year, you know, we lost so much money because, I don't know, we were doing, you know, things, you know, with this approach. And the person, salesperson, immediately they write it down, they move forward, and I say, pause right there. Just right there, sir. Mr. Customer, can you help me to understand this better? What do you mean by lots of money? Can you define that for me? Because lots of money is for every client is different. Well, you know, we lost like, I don't know, $80,000. So you're telling me you lost $80,000 because of this? This, this, this? Yes, it did. Yeah. Did you have money in your mind that you were supposed to lose and you're like, well, we just wanted to lose 20K. Okay, 80,000 minus 20,000. So the gap is $60,000 that I can play with. My job now as a salesperson is to show you how much, how I can help you to save that $60,000, right? So the whole thing with the stripping technique is we want to go deep. And the best simple example is you can try this with your friend, dad, like next time, tonight or tomorrow, go to one of your friend who's married, right? And say, hey, man, are you, are you, are you happy with your marriage, right? 99% of them, they would say, yeah, yeah, right? It's like a dead end question, right? Or the person says, unless they're just happy having a crap, yeah, it's like end of it, right? But instead of asking that, do it differently. Say, hey, man, when was the last time you guys had a date night, right? How often do you guys go out, you know, how often do you guys, you know, go out together and party? What was the last time that you guys got intimate? What was the last time that you guys bought each other a gift, right? You ask six, seven questions, then your friend will look at you and say, shit, I thought my marriage was good, right?

Why'd you poke holes into my beliefs there?

Exactly. And this is the same thing when I say with discovery is you have to strip and go through the layers, right? And ask the questions to go to the point to that root cause of the problems or the prospect. And I've done this so many times.

It sounds so much like me and my coaching. You know, a lot of people come to us saying, hey, I want to Grow and scale my business. Can you help me learn how to hire people? I'm having a hard time with hiring people. I'm like, okay, so help me understand that a little bit better. Is it that you're having a hard time hiring people because they're just not available, or do they not want to work for you, or are you having a hard time keeping that? What does that look like? And so you dig in a little bit, and then you're like, well, hold on a second. Like, if we hired people, what would the experience be like? What would the experience be like if they came to work for you? Would they, like, have a training program? Would they have that ready for them? Not really. Right?

Yeah.

You start to uncover what really the root problem is, and you start to find out that really it comes down to this thing way back over here, which was leadership and culture. Yeah, they weren't skilled enough as a leader, and they don't know what happened to my camera there. Let's see if I can get it to work for us. It doesn't want to work for me. I'm going to be foggy a little bit, or maybe it's my ass. But I agree with you 100%. But it needs to feel natural, too. I think this is one of the things where people make the mistake is they give their salespeople, like, this needs analysis thing, and they go through it, like, there's all these questions to ask, and they. They turn into a salesperson. They might have actually been, like, somebody that was getting along with whoever, and they automatically turn in a salesperson because they're going through this list instead of listening to that person on the other side first asking them the questions and then digging based off of those questions. That was really cool to me. Really?

Yeah. We call. We call it the CIA approach. You know, when sales people, they jump on a call, okay, Mr. Customer, I'm just gonna ask you some questions, you know, to learn more about your business. You know, question number one, number two, number three, number four, number five. And so many times by question number five, the prospect goes, hey, man, what's going on? Like, what is this? Like, are you from CIA or something? Just, you know, show me what you got, right? And you never want that to happen. And in order to avoid that, every time you ask that question, you want to listen to understand versus listen to respond, right? And it's just as simple as that. You want to listen to understand. And that's what I said. One thing that really separates the best salespeople from Average. The best salespeople, they listen to understand the average. They listen to respond. Huge difference. The best salespeople, they discuss the strategic outcome. They discuss that beautiful point B, what that point B would look like. Right. They will create this beautiful scenario for you as a customer. This is where you're today. But you told me this is where you want to be in the future. Let me show you how I can help you to get there. Right.

That piece that you just said, I want to drive that home. Because that is what I believe to be the key to sales. Here you are today. Can you imagine yourself in the future? Let me show you how I can help you bridge that gap. That's what everybody wants. That's the thing that people want. And that's why I agree with you that I think we could be as proud or even more proud of being a salesperson than even a doctor.

A hundred percent.

Because you're truly solving a problem at that point. You're truly seeing what they're dealing with instead of just assuming, which I think too many sales guys do. They assume, hey, I get called out because somebody wants a roof, that they assume that they want this kind of roof.

Yeah.

You don't even ask about these other options that are available or understand why they want a roof at all. You think, hey, they've got a leak. They want a new roof. So here's a roof and this is what it does.

Yeah.

Instead of asking questions like, well, how long do you plan on living here?

Yeah.

And your forever home? Or is this a home that's an investment home? Like, what are those things? So that I can better understand for you what the right solution might be.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So many times they don't even know. Honestly, if I want to.

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You know, buy a roof or something related to my house. I don't know anything about it, right?

No, you don't.

If someone tells me right, I would say, I would call and say, I just Need a roof, right? And imagine the worst person is, oh, you need the roof. I take care of it, right?

Well, we assume. We assume you want the cheapest roof. That's what we assume.

Everybody either the cheapest roof or I just want a roof. And someone says, you know, but before I ask me, you know, a roof, maybe the problem that I have, you know, someone might say, hey, why do you want a roof? And I'm like, well, somebody told me I need a roof, you know, and someone says, you know, seriously? And you might ask me 7, 8 question, and you say, no, man, you don't need a roof. You know, you need, like this or you need that. You know, but this is a problem that we have today. People, they see it, oh, yes, I got a pain point. And, you know, the definition of pain point and problem nowadays is like, oh, yeah. And the person comes to me and say, boss, you know, we're going to close this one. I say, why do you think we're going to close this one? Well, the person has this problem, this problem, this problem. I'm like, do they agree that they have those problems, or do you think they have those problems? And immediately goes, yeah, no, I think they have those problems. And I'm like, no, we're not going to close this one. Then.

Well, I'll use the doctor analogy again. So you go in and you say, hey, my arm is bleeding. And they go, hey, I can solve that. Here's a band aid. That was my problem. Here's a band aid. Us as salespeople doing the exact same thing, but they didn't ask, well, how did you cut yourself? Right, well, I brushed up against a desk. Well, most people shouldn't bleed when they brush up against a desk, right? Yeah. So maybe there's something else going on. Maybe there's something wrong with your skin, maybe your hemophilia. Like, there's all kinds of other things that could be. And all they did was put a band aid on it. They didn't really solve the root problem.

Exactly.

And I think more salespeople that get that concept that I'm not here to put a band aid on something, I'm here to solve the problem. They'll get more referrals than they ever knew what to do.

100% go deep. That's.

That's. This is really good. Yeah. You're strong, man. You're strong.

Oh, thank you, sir. Thank you.

You're a rock star. Thank you. You've mentioned it a couple of times that you've had some amazing Mentors. Is there anybody that the. The listeners would know of that you follow? Like, hey, these guys are the guys I've learned this type of stuff from. So, like, they have material that could be read or watched.

It's very interesting, actually. That's another thing that's, I think, another controversial thing that I. I'm about to say. So many of these people who are the best, you don't even find them in social media. And one of them, like, one of them is like, you know, my. She's. She's my good friend Ilana Palmer, where, you know, I have so much respect for her and like, her and I were kind of the same. You know, when people tell me, hey, why don't you go on social media and post stuff and all that? And I just tell them, you know, I would love to do that. A, I don't have time. B, the social media is, like, full of, you know, fake stuff that, you know, put a bad taste in my mouth to even go there and try to help salespeople. But I get so many clients from referrals and all that, and so many people that they come to me because they see what I've done for other businesses in terms of consulting, has been working for them. One individual that I mentioned, I think his name two times. I think he's one person that for sales people, they can. They can follow him. He's a great guy. His name is Keenan. He's the author of Gap Selling. I'm a. I'm a huge fan of that, you know, approach, uh, of Gap Selling.

I've actually read it.

Yeah. Of that approach, methodology. Yeah. But aside from that, I don't, I don't. The rest of the people are all people that I work with that. They're all amazing, but they're not out there. They don't have a book or, or anything like that. But there are some, you know, good sales trainers and coaches out there, which, like, again, Keenan is a great guy. Another guy that I have so much respect for his. John Barrows. He's a. He's a. He's. He's also a good, good, you know, sales guru or coach or trainer. And obviously we have some people who have been, you know, in the industry for, you know, more than 40, 50 years. You know, from. That's. They're amazing. From, you know, Jeff Lounge to Mike Weinberg's. And also these guys are also. They're great. And you can read their books and you can learn a lot from them. At the end of the day, reading These books and all that is good. But it comes down to you understanding what type of salesperson you are and try to step yourself every day out of your comfort zone and work on things that you are not good at. So for those people who are listening to this, if you're a business owner, if you are, you know, trying to help to get into the sales industry or whatever, or sell any products or services, start doing things that you don't like to do. That means cold calling, that means cold prospecting. That means, you know, asking the right questions. That means, yeah, everything that you dislike. Yeah, exactly, go for it.

I look at it this way. Sales I don't believe is easy. I think it comes somewhat natural for the relational salespeople that can have some early success, but they really never go way up there, right? Like they could have some success but never like true crazy mastery type success. Everybody else is hard work, right. The relational guys aren't willing to put in the hard work. The other guys are willing to put in the hard work, but it takes a while. But here's the thing, it doesn't take four years. That's what it takes to go through college. And it doesn't cost what it goes, what it takes to go through college. If you really put your head to it and really put your mind to it, I can tell that not only have you studied it, but you have learned it, observed it, understand it, use wisdom with it. Your observation skills are extreme. They're very good. You pay attention to what other people are doing, how they're doing it, and you're pulling those things in from them. I find that those guys are usually the ones that do become the masters. They're the ones that take that thing. And man, I'm going to tell you right now, I wrote down three or four things here. I guarantee you I'm probably going to use. They're pretty strong. Like that was really good stuff.

Yeah. No, I appreciate that. I appreciate it and I hope, you know, for, for anyone who's out there in the industry, you know, this is a beautiful industry.

I have a question for you. I, I didn't think I was going to ask you this, but I'm going to ask you this. We are forming. First off, I hate the name Mastermind. I hate that kind of thing. Right. I feel like it's become cliche. There's been too much hype around it. Most people have had an average to poor experience with it. And I've been wanting to do this for seven years. I've been coaching for 10, I've been wanting to do it. For seven. I was kind of getting everything in play for it. And then it became like this almost bad word, like, because people were being taken advantage of by it. But I am going to do one. It's going to be very different because I found that the value of a mastermind is in the network that you create, the, you know, the camaraderie, the peers and that kind of stuff. And there's also this aspect of maybe being able to see things that you wouldn't normally see. So those are the kind of two big value props out of it. And then there's the negative side, which is usually it's very niche, like, hey, I'm in a sales mastermind, or I'm in a business mastermind, or, you know, I'm in health and fitness, like those type of things. Right, right. And so what I'm working on is a group. And I'm not only want to call it a mastermind, I actually have a name for it. It's called uodo, which nobody's ever going to see it. I'm not going to market it. The only time you're going to hear it is on this podcast, because I want to invite you. Nice. But it means a prosperous and expeditious journey in Greek. Like, I think that's what we're all about. And I want it to be about more than just business. I want it to be about sales. I want it to be about your spiritual journey. I want it to be about your mental genius and creativity. I want it to be about relationships. I want it to be about these things. Now I'm wondering, like, if I. If I compensated you, would you come in and maybe speak at one of these for us?

100%?

Yeah, absolutely. We want to bring in what we call a power pro to each one of our retreats that we do. And, and I don't want you to just speak. I want you to take your, you know, 30 to 60 minutes, whatever time you need to share your thing, but I want you to hang out with them. Because I saw what the thing I'm always missing from those things. Like this dude comes in, he talks, it does his thing and Audi goes, yeah, I want you to hang out, I want you to stay for meal, talk to the guys, answer questions.

100.

Yeah, yeah, I think, I think it'd be fantastic. I think you've got some serious skill I've had. You're not the first sales guy I've had on here. You're the first one I've ever invited. So that's pretty awesome.

No, no, I appreciate that. Absolutely.

Naveed, this has been great, man. I really appreciate you taking the time. I know we've been here longer than I thought we would, but like I said, if it was good, I wanted to keep it rolling.

I really enjoyed it. Thank you so much.

I feel like if you and I hung out for a weekend, it would be chaos. We would only talk sales and we'd probably challenge each other on a few things. Because my needs analysis part isn't all at one place. It's kind of happening as I go throughout the process with the person I'm identifying early. Because, you know, you can ask some pretty soft questions early in a conversation, but you can't ask those more advisory or expert or aggressive questions until you kind of get to know them a little bit and really see, you know, further and deeper what their needs are and you can really be honest with them. Hey, I get it. I get where you're at with this, but, you know, could you picture it being like this way if we did this and this and start really like poking at them or almost provoking them a bit in a good way? That's in there. I think that would be a. I think that'd be a fun conversation. And actually, I can't wait.

Role play. I can't wait. I'm already excited for it.

All right, man. Hey, how do people get a hold of you if they want to talk to you about, you know, maybe getting some advice or coaching? I don't know what it is that you do. I, I saw on your website there's some sales coaching, there's some sales leader stuff that you have. How do people get a hold of you?

So they can get a hold of me through. You can come to my website, www.salesgroupglobal.com, where I help startups, medium sized companies, large sized companies with anything related to their sales department, from doing cell training seminars to one on one sessions to group training sessions. They can find me on LinkedIn, they can find my book on Amazon, how to Become a sales masters. And 100% proceeds of that book goes to a charity in Ukraine.

And. Nice, well done. That's awesome.

Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, and they can find me through Google or they can find me, you know, like, like through, you know, your show. And, you know, I can definitely share, you know.

Yeah, look him up on LinkedIn too. He's on LinkedIn. He's. You're pretty active on LinkedIn too. Yeah, I think in your description it says I'm hiring a sales leader right now, a sales manager for somewhere. So I was like, that's pretty smart. I never thought about that.

Yeah, yeah, they can find me there. And, and obviously if they, if anyone wants something that I'm going to announce very soon. But based on whatever happening that that is in the, in the world right now, I'm also trying to offer my services for free for any individuals from some of the countries that have been going through the war right now, from, you know, Israel, Palestine, Ukraine. So if you're from any of these countries, please, you know, come to me and I won't charge you a dime and I'll help you as much as I can, man.

I might just join you in that. That's really good.

Absolutely.

And we like to give back. We. We do a lot of that kind of stuff and I'm going to put that past my team. That's really good. Naveed, this has been stellar.

Thank you so much.

I appreciate you taking some time today and hanging out with our audience. I will get your website and links and all that good stuff in the show notes and when we get done, we'll chop it all up and send it to you and you can put it on any of your social media that you want to. It's been great having you on board, buddy.

Thank you so much. Thank you for having me and absolute pleasure speaking with you and I can't wait to meet you guys in person.

Yeah, it's gonna be fun. We're gonna have a good time.

Thank you so much.

I'll be right back with you, but let me go ahead and close the show out. All right, thank you. Wow. Man, what a show. Like, I. I know he was probably talking about things like hotels and investment companies and stuff like that, but all the tactics, all the training, all the mastery, all that stuff still applies. So much of that was so good that you got five to ten seconds to grab their attention. We cannot forget that. And if you do some research in advance, it makes it a lot easier because you can speak their language and their industry or their need. Whether it's if it's business to business, it's industry, if it's business to consumer, it's knowledge of what it is that they're looking for in advance. And knowing that they probably don't know a whole lot about what it is that you do, especially if you're in something that's a home service type industry. So they know they need a roof, but not what kind. They know they need some siding, but which one's the right one? And they're still in this investigation stage. That was fantastic. Lead with a problem and then the three to five things that solves that problem. Fantastic advice. I mean, top notch stuff right there. I can't wait to talk to him more. I love his perception of himself and what sales really is, and I think that all of you should have that same perception. A funny thing is he was talking about like sales versus being a doctor and how we're just as important, if maybe not more important. I know this. Not only do I get to help solve people's problems whenever I'm selling and help them find value and have something of benefit through the interaction, I also make more money than those doctors and the those lawyers and those guys, which is super cool too, because it's simply a byproduct of providing value. And when you understand that the byproduct of you providing value to others is value back to you, it's going to change your world. Thank you for hanging out with us here on Contractor Radio. My name is Jim Johnson, your host, also the head coach at Contractor Coach Pro. If you're looking to truly scale your business and grow your business and become a better person and human being, check us out. Here at Contractor Coach Pro, we help contractors get control of their business by leading it well, putting in the processes they need so that they can grow and manage it well and hold people to expectations. And hopefully if everything goes well, through all of that, you find that personal and financial freedom that you were chasing when you started your business in the first place and it begins to work for you instead of you working for it. See you on the next episode of Contract Radio. Thanks for hanging out with us.