Best of Contractor Radio 2023

Hey, I'm Jim Johnson, your host here with Contractor Radio, and I want to thank you for taking the time today to listen to our show. And our show is all about you, helping you get control of your business so you can grow your business and find that personal and financial freedom you're after. So hang on tight. Episode's about to start. Yeah, I always think of it reputation thing. Like it's. It's what people perceive about you is your brand the way they see you. And so you've taken it this. Because there's a lot of different ways to do it. Some people do it with this top of mind marketing approach where it's like billboards everywhere, TV commercials everywhere, and you just can't avoid it. So it's just embedded in you all the time. Others do a little bit like what you're doing, which is this giving back and being really involved in the community. You said two words that were put together that really kind of meant something. And it was showing up. Like you actually showed up to go do something. And I think so many people look at this opportunity of generosity, especially in our world, and we do okay, like as a roofing contractor or a painting contractor or, you know, any kind of contractor that's good at what they do, they do pretty well financially. And they tend to look at it as their way of getting back is like, here's some money, now go help whoever.

Right?

Because I'm busy doing this other thing. Why the show up approach.

Kind of felt natural. I mean, it's brought the company together. We do it together. It's something that everybody adopted. You know, we're all in. Everybody's all in. And it's something that's really kind of held the culture and strengthened it.

Was that something that was previous to the whole Covid thing, like, you guys.

Tended to lean that way anyway, it's all organic.

Wow, that is wild. Like, there's so many negative things from COVID right? Like everything. We don't like to be around people anymore. I can work from home and hey, I can sell stuff online. There's all that stuff, right? And there were so many people that were damaged from it. From a mental health aspect, you guys almost flipped it on its head and found something inside of yourselves that wasn't there before.

I think what people need to realize.

Is there's vehicles out there that they can partner with. They don't have to do it all themselves. And we didn't realize how much Salvation army did. So we're there to support and we're not there to run it. And so with a small amount of help, we can give them the teamwork, the partnership together can do more. But us together trying to put something together would probably be a bit of a.

Okay, how would somebody go about finding the thing they're into? Like, it sounds like you guys, Salvation army, you do some. It's not really Meals on Wheels, but it's similar to that type of idea, but for the homeless. Right, Right. We're going to talk about the Matty Farr foundation here in just a minute. But how would another contractor out there, if they're thinking about this, I actually want to get my hands dirty approach.

There's a lot of organizations out there, but what we found, and just the first one that we partnered up with that Salvation army does all those. I mean, they give aid to the elderly. They give aid to. They have a women's shelter. They have a, you know, rehabilitation shelter. They have, you know, they have all of those avenues and their boots on the ground, too. So if you're looking. We found that if, you know, if we were looking to kind of figure out what made us drive or what we were passionate about, that was such a great place to start. Because there were so many different avenues that the Salvation army could lead us.

We put it out in front of the team to find something to do to other organizations. We said, is there something that's near and dear to your heart that we can help contribute to? So it was kind of a team effort, and Salvation army is the one that stuck over time. We're two and a half, three years in with them now, and. But we put it out to everybody, and we've done some other things outside of just this.

Do you find that it has an impact with your client? Like, do you talk about it, like, how this business facilitates your generosity and your ability to give back and hopefully in an authentic way? Like, we really just like to do this.

We hope.

I mean, I hope that they see, you know, we do get a lot of calls and stuff like that around Christmas time when we're doing the Angel Tree. But what we did last year, it's starting about. We actually, from May till May of this year, May 1st, we donated. It was $50 from BFAR and $50 from the homeowner. And we clearly stated it in their proposal that this cost of your roof, whatever the price was, includes a $50 donation on your end, and we're matching that $50 for you. And at the end of the year, we're gonna give basically $100 per roof to the Salvation Army. So December of last year, on top of donating to the angel tree and on top of, like, you know, adopting the 40 angels, we were able to give a. I think it was $21,700 check to the salvation. So small on a $15,000 roof. $50 is so small, but accumulated over the, you know, over the year. It was a big deal.

So, Paul, all this happens. It brings you, like, to this level of influence. And I noticed there was a change in you. Like, you went, this stuff isn't feeling good. I want to do something that I think is something missing in our industry. And I'll never forget you guys putting on Storm into a new era. I think that was the point where I went, maybe he's not full of shit. Maybe he is serious about this thing. And I was honored. Honored, absolutely. To come and speak at the event, be a part of it, be engaged in it. And I went, hey, you know what? These guys are really trying to do it right? Not just from a business standpoint from. But from a human being and spiritual standpoint. I don't know if that could ever be replicated again. That very first one was just different. Do you agree? This last one was great, don't get me wrong. But that first one was just like, wow, that's the first time I've heard that many people talk about God.

100%. I don't think it could ever be replicated. And it was at the right time, the right place, with the right people there, Right? Like, I wish there would have been a football stadium full, right? But there was 250 people, the right people in the room. And it was, you know, one of the most powerful things I've. I've ever been part of. And that. That came directly off of, you know, being at other events, that it was like, there's got to. There's got to be other people out there, you know, that have the same ideals and same thoughts and want to do things different.

Well, I think the best part of what came out of that was there was a. There was. There was now, like, clearance given. There was like, hey, it's okay to talk about God. It's okay to talk about ethics and morals and business. It's okay to not talk about all the taking advantage of the insurance company possibilities for supplementing under. Under the sun. It's okay to talk about those things, about being a good human being. And what you guys created was this. Since it was okay, everybody could go talk about it. And I think that's the piece that not a lot of people click to from that event is you see the Eric Oberams myself feeling clearance to like go and talk, like, hey, it's okay to talk about this stuff. And I just want to say thanks for that. Thanks for, for doing that. And what I think that's done for the industry since that time. There's more and more, but I feel like there's this welling towards being professional, ethical, and faith is okay, which I don't think is a bad thing. So after that, you, you're like, okay, that was pretty cool. Well, let's start a nonprofit. So, so tell us a little bit about that and what spurred that? Why did that happen?

The 100% roofers and recovery 100% came from going to a conference in Vegas. And one guy unfortunately passed away in a hotel room. And then a very good friend of mine, that I actually was his sponsor, he went to the conference I suggested. He didn't go, but he went. And within an hour he was drinking and getting high and he went on a three day run and either jumped, fell, or got pushed off of a 40 foot overpass and literally died, I think three times. He was in the hospital, I think for about 45 days or so. And when we left there, it was like, hey, we need to really kind of give back. And what did that mean? That meant like, okay, there, there needs to be a place, kind of a, I hate to use the word, a safe place for, for people when they go to these events. Because you know, what are most drooping events, they're pretty alcohol fueled, right? Even, even the, the calmer ones, right? There's a lot of booze flowing and, and why, you know, manufacturers and suppliers, they provide a lot of booze. You know, it's just kind of part of the business. And so we wanted to kind of create a meeting to where, you know, you knew that there was other people like you that were struggling and you could hang out with those guys instead of, you know, going out to the, to the after parties or doing whatever. So that was the start of it. And then from there it was a phone call. I called Eric one day and was like, hey, want to start a deal? Let's. I'll put in ten grand, you put in ten grand and let's send somebody to rehab, you know, in the, in the roofing industry. And so that was the start of, of of it. At that time it was a nonprofit. We just, you know, thought we would have a charity and send some guys.

The Paul and Eric Charity.

Yeah. And so very quickly, you know, with, with, obviously with, with my wife Kim, we started, started the roofers in recovery and how to get official and hire a lawyer and spend a bunch of money to get qualified and make it a 501C3. And so from there, that was the start of roofers in recovery. And the intention of roofers in recovery is to have a group in our industry that it's okay to be sober. It's okay if you're having an issue like, hey, we're here to help. And so what we do now is we get notified either by owner or a boss or friend or a spouse that, hey, this person is struggling. And we get on a call with them and kind of interview them and kind of go through a few processes and if they qualify, which, you know, most of them can or will, we, we send them to a 30 day in treatment center that we pay for 100%. And from there we kind of try to mentor them and sponsor them and get them involved in our, in our roofers and recovery group.

Keep them, keep them on the straight and narrow. Like the 30 days is great to get them. What's the right word for that? Is it just to get them clean?

It really is. Because to be honest with you, the first 20 days you're kind of recovering. You know, you're getting some sleep and some food and getting your mind right. And you know, day 31 is really when it starts.

Yeah. What's my next version?

Yeah. Yes.

And a lot of people make poor decisions, so roofers and recovery really is the outlet to hopefully keep those decisions on the straight and narrow. Is that a fair way of understanding.

Really is because we, we all kind of look for commonalities, right? Like, we don't want to feel alone. Like, none of us want to feel alone. And the cool thing about roofers and recovery, you know, we all have like trigger points. You know, how many times does someone get upset because, well, this homeowner is mad because the drip edge color is wrong and she won't pay the last eighteen hundred dollar check. And so you go get drunk or high, right? But go tell that to a normal person and they're like, it's not a big deal, you know, whatever. But because we all have like these experiences, we're in the same business, we, we have the same issues. Mrs. Smith is mad at us for this and this guy did that and you know, the crew caused a leak and blah, blah, blah. And so it's just like we're a Group of, you know, common minded people that are searching for, you know, recovery and to stay, you know, clean and sober.

Yeah. And it's been awesome to watch. We, we've been fortunate and honored to help with that as much as we can. Whether it's, you know, straight up giving, helping you guys promote something that you're, you're about. What was, what was the biggest challenge with bringing on a salesperson?

For me, it was, will I be able to, you know, this was a guy with a family. Right. He just got married and it was and still is for me. Anytime I hire somebody, the challenge for me is, okay, they're putting their life in my hands and will I give them the opportunity to succeed? And can somebody actually succeed at this? Really? Back then the model wasn't so well known. Right. We didn't know that a Salesman can make 100 grand in a year. So here you are thinking, oh my goodness, you know, this guy is going from a job where he knows his income and here I just offered him a job and I don't even know how I came upon it, but I decided he'll be paid commission. I think I gave him a small base, but it was mostly commission. And, and he said, yes, I want to do it. And I'm like, oh man, he wants to do it.

He found the right guy. It sounds like he was hungry.

Yeah. And you know, I very specifically remember, soon after he started with me, I took a trip with my family to South Africa to visit my parents. And I was so concerned. I'm in South Africa, he's over here. He's supposed to sell a few jobs while I'm gone. And, and you know, will it happen? You know, back then, communication wasn't so smooth as it is today. As far as getting on, you know.

You weren't sending texts back and forth between South Africa and Texas.

Not those days. Those days you probably paid $5 a text. Now it's $5 a day, I think for everything. But communication was, was more of a challenge. But yeah, I remember, you know, me and my dad having some talks about that. You know, that was really, I considered my first high risk move in business. Everything else I had covered, you know, but hiring a salesman for me was a big step because I felt like he needs to make good money and can I, you know, what did you.

Do to ensure that, that he made it or did he? I guess that's a.

He did.

He did. Okay, good.

He very much did. You know, what did I do to ensure that? I'd say As I would say today, you know, when a salesman comes to work for us, he doesn't have to, he doesn't have to apologize for our company, so he doesn't have to worry about our reputation. I think that's a huge thing. If I'm going to go sell for a company, I don't want to have to apologize for them on every time. And so I say, what did I do for him? Well, I gave him a good company to sell, you know, a good name to sell. We were not, you know, we. The little bit of size we had was. We were reputable, you know, and we could, we could list our references and we could, he could walk into the supply houses and know that we pay our bill and so forth, you know, so I'd say I gave him a credible, you know, visible.

I think you gave him a brand with a reputation he could trust. Yeah, yeah, that's pretty awesome.

And he helped us build it, you know, then from there on, it's a snowball effect, you know, you work with that.

So he came in, he starts, did you give Supply some training of any kind? Did he already have some background in it?

Like what he, he, he did, he worked, worked as a salesman, but it was a salaried position at the company called Tough Shed. They build sheds. Are you familiar? Oh, yeah, yeah. He worked for them for a year. Yeah. In fact, I think the way that it worked is he worked for them, we were friends and he said, man, this is what I do for Tough Shed. I think I can do this for you. Ah, you know, I think, I believe that's kind of, that was kind of.

The God's providence right there.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Most guys don't get that lucky. That's not usually the way it goes. It's like, hey, will you come to work for me? Yeah. You got some sales history? Yes, I do. But then there's this training. You got to get them all this, like, knowledge that they didn't have before and you hope they make something out of it. Yeah, I think that's a big struggle for a lot of guys. Whenever they first start is, yeah, you know how to sell it. Because you have all this experience. You've gone through the ring around a lot of it. You've got a bit of a personal reputation. So now your word of mouth stuff is taking care of you. But this new guy doesn't have that. How do you, how do you get that to him quickly?

Yeah, today it's easy. I send them to you.

That's nice. I Did not pay you to say that, but that was nice.

No, no, but I mean, I. Look, nothing like that existed 15 years ago. Not that I knew of. I mean, not that I knew of. You were in the industry. Was there anything like that?

Only in my, only my building. Yeah, we had created it, we put it, you know, we had a whole sales training manual put together, videos to go with like that kind of stuff. Like I knew if I was going to scale, I had to get salespeople making quickly. And so it wasn't about teach them everything all at one time. It was teaching them what they needed to do to get to the point of making money. So we call it concept time to money. How fast can I get somebody up to speed on something that may not have any kind of at least construction background, maybe some sales ability, but not some construction background. So they gotta learn, you know, what's the difference between a flat roof and a pitched roof or steep slope? And what does slope even mean? And what are asphalt shingles vs. EPDM vs. Built up and those type of things and rafter systems and truss systems and you got all this knowledge that you just go, everybody should know that, right? Well, they don't. And it takes some time. And that's what I think most small contractors run into whenever they're trying to go from solopreneur to like scaling their business is they think this guy's going to come in and do really well right from the get go. They don't all get lucky and get some guy that has some construction background. And so they do this right along training like watch what I do and mimic me. And then you start doing that yourself. But that takes a long time to learn that.

You know, I was fortunate this guy was a self learner, you know, but, and, and then ride alongs and just getting introduced to the industry. But man, today it's so much easier. I mean you guys do this and I guess there's a few others, but so nice you have the platform. I just, you know, they log in, they go through the courses.

Yeah, it's.

Man, if you can't do it with.

All this info, then yeah, might not be the industry for you.

Yeah, yeah.

So okay, we get our first sales guy, we've got our administration gal. But now today, if I, if I read things yet, 52 employees, you guys do about them?

Yeah, we've actually, we've actually cut back a little bit over the last couple of years. Maybe Covid has something to do with that, but really our revenue hasn't Dropped just. Our model has changed a little bit. But yeah, we have 52 employees today. The majority of those are sales and administrators. We still employ quite a few technicians, I would say total of about 20. But you know, the world has changed a lot. In fact, we dealt with that a little bit today in our business. You know, we have to adapt. I like the old fashioned way of business where everything is under one roof. You know, we've got, you know, finances, the sales and the production, it's all there. You know, everything happens there. We've got all the equipment, all this. We put our guys through, you know, certified trainings and on and on and. But I have discovered, and I've had to come to the model today where, you know, we have to rely on subcontractors. There's such a shortage, you know, the technicians are not knocking our doors down, you know, that.

Yeah, it's, it has changed a little bit.

Yeah.

And I see it done both ways. You know, people that want to stick with having technicians, we got to build a pretty strong training program. We got to go recruit pretty hard at the high schools and technical schools and really almost build like an old, their own education thing. The thing I've noticed is that for doing the trades, the money has gotten a lot better. And so there, there's been a shift in the last two years of people getting. It was always going down, down, down, people getting into the trades. The last two years, the first two years in 17 years that it has gone up getting into the trades. So what that tells me is that the income is validating what the effort is. So it's good to see. I hope it continues. I don't. It's not this big, huge shift, but it's at least going the right direction.

So.

If you were to go back and do it all over again, or you are a mentor to another person that's getting into it today, what would be the two or three things of advice that you would, you would give them when they're first starting up?

Yeah, probably some of the things we've already discussed like, you know, what are you good at? And you keep doing that, then hire people to do what you cannot do. I think if I was to restart a company today, I wouldn't be so heavy on trying to build my own in house crews because there are plenty of crews out there that you can get to skilled people and then just learn how to oversee them. But yeah, I would, I would tell a young entrepreneur, you know, you yourself need to understand finance as much as you Possibly can, you know what a P and L looks like and what a balance sheet is all about. You should know those things. But then hire people to take care of that for you as quickly as you possibly can, and then be as much as a people person as you could possibly be. Build as many relationships in your community as you could possibly build. I think I lacked in that some, you know, not going out as much as I should. I do now. But I think one should. In your early years, join the chamber, join every networking group you possibly can. Visit with every insurance agent in town, visit with all the realtors in town. Go to all of those things and make yourself visible and be confident about that. I think that's a big, big part of landing the right kind of work.

I couldn't agree with you more. Building that strong network of relationships that there's value back and forth. Right. Like, chamber of commerce. You just went with them to Billings, Montana, right?

Yeah. How valuable, man?

Yeah, yeah. Like, you didn't have to do that, but you. You willingly did. And so there's this, wow, that guy stepped up and did some nice stuff for us. I want to help him out. There's that kind of a feel that goes in to Absolutely reciprocity, right?

Yep. Yep.

What do you think has been the single biggest factor in. In your success? And, I mean, you've been doing this for 30 years. Nobody does this for 30 years without being at least some level of success. What is. What's been the number one reason for that, do you think?

Well, I want to. I want to. I think I'll ascribe it at least two things. One, In my early 20s, I had a friend that was very generous. He gave to charity a lot and very easily, and I saw that, and I was attracted to that. And then after I came to faith, I realized that, you know, this is part of our relationship with God. And so I've tried to be very generous through the years. And so, you know, I. We don't give, so God would give back to us. But I will say that, you know, I feel like a lot of my. If what is perceived as success is, you know, I try to just be a channel. So that's definitely, for me, it's number one. But from more of a human standpoint, I would say that between reading and a willingness to grab a hammer if I need to, and everybody that works for me knows that. That they know that I. I read, and they know that if there's work that needs to be done and nobody's going to do it, that I will physically go and do it and I will sweep the floor. If I. If the floor doesn't get swept and I do it, I gladly do it. So I think those are some things, factors, probably the two big factors for me.

You know, I find it like you said, because I heard you earlier when you're talking, like it was ministry and this, you were kind of doing two things at once. Then when you moved to Texas, really became the business. And then you said, you don't give to get back. You do it because that's what we're asked to do. Like there's actually scripture that backs that up. Right. If somebody. And you have it, give it. So there's this general. But you said something that really caught my attention. You saw somebody being very generous and it attracted you. Why is that?

Well, I think it just matched. It just matched what I was learning in my face, you know. So here I was seeing an example of somebody that wasn't holding on and hoarding their wealth. They, you know, for them to give everything away that they just earned today was not a big deal at all. I'll just get. God will provide again tomorrow. So why, why hold on? And so when I, you know, seeing that this guy was almost like a father figure or an older brother to me, I'm like, man, this is the way to live. Why. Why not go for it?

You know? And it's scary though, isn't it? When you got a family, you're responsible, you got people working for you.

Yeah.

Okay. So this money, I mean, I'm give it away. You have it.

Yeah.

And it causes a bit of worry and anxiety. Even though we. We're not supposed to. We're not supposed to feel that.

Yeah.

We're supposed to trust God's going to provide the next day. Like you said before, it has been such an amazing journey for me because I've gone through this thing too, where I saw some examples of it and it was attractive to me. I don't think it's attractive to everybody. I think it's more rare than we might assume. I think most people are like, well, we see the guy with all the money and he's got all the fancy stuff and the planes, the cars, the boats and all that. And I want that. But what we don't see is the guy that's like giving away, like he's not announcing it out loud. You usually have this influence, this person that you were close to.

Right, right.

You see that? I. I think it's the coolest Thing.

Is really what I. Yeah, it's really, you know, it's really very humbling, man, I tell you, you know, you know, I. I run a nonprofit as well, and here recently especially, some people have come alongside and partnered with us. And, man, it's so humbling. And that just inspires me to just, like, want to work harder. And, you know, I hate interrupting these.

Videos, but this thing is something that every contractor should have. It's company. It is the one piece of software every home service contractor should use to document their jobs. Every picture you ever take is associated to the address you took it. It's like Instagram. For every project that you have, give a link to the homeowner, share it to them while you're doing your inspection. Win more sales. If you want to find out more about Company Cam, check the description below. Save a few bucks by following our link. I noticed, as much as anything else, was your team. Your team was. It's kind of like when you get forced into something, you rise to the occasion, right?

Yes.

It's what it struck me as with your team. So what it was. There was talent there, but they needed this opening for them to rise to the occasion. And now we don't suggest that anybody go get a heart transplant or anything like that to figure that out with their team, but would you say that that's. That's a good thing for the team to create that type of situation where, hey, it's on you. You got to step up and do things, and is that a good suggestion, or would you say maybe not the way to go about things?

I think it. I think creating a succession, planning at first, having everything set up and then step back, you know, in a short period, you know, and then, you know, come in, you know, you're kind of there, and then step back for a longer period. That's what happened with. With our team. Because it was through so many different surgeries. The first time I was out, you know, but I was. I had my laptop, so I was able to ask, answer questions. Right. It was second time. You know, it was like, oh, he's in the hospital again, but we know what we're doing. They got more confidence. And then the, you know, the third time, it's like, oh, he's having, you know, another heart surgery. No big deal. By the fourth time, oh, he just had his heart transplanted this time. It's no big deal. He's got this.

We'll see him in a few weeks. He'll be right back on.

Yeah.

So there's something to learn from that. Like putting your team under the fire for a period of time to see what they rise to. That doesn't mean check out, right? Like, that's not. That's not the thing. We got to come back in and like, hey, coach. And give advice where advice is needed. But if they don't go through the experience, they don't ever grow into that position. Would you agree with that?

Absolutely agree. Because sometimes I find myself grooming or training somebody and I put enough weight on them and their knees start to break and they just can't make it. No matter how much time I groom them, they're just something about them. They're not, you know, maybe they're not right for that position. So you need to make sure that you, you know, weight test your, you know, your leaders or your team as you have out there.

Well, I see so many leaders that groom their team up. They're coaching them, they're teaching them, and they're, like, bringing them up. But they're always like a safety valve, right? There's a safety valve that you can rely on. And so they're empowered, but they're not autonomous. And that's a very different thing. And when you're autonomous, bad things happen. You got to make some decisions. There's nobody there to give you a backup. And I see so many owners not do that with their teams, not let them actually fail, not let them. We call it the figure it out factor. Like, go through that part of it. Because that experience is so invaluable because now they know, hey, I messed up, and I would do it this way differently next time or hot dang, I did that.

Right?

Good job. Right? Yeah, that's. I would be a big takeaway from our conversation day. Like, if you're sitting out there as an owner, if you're planning to get into a position where it's not running you every day and you're not in the day to day and you're not micromanaging, but you're macro managing. You got to give your team the opportunity to rise to the occasion, cut them loose, let them know, like, set it up even. It's nice because you were able to go, hey, I got surgery coming up. See you later. I'm out of here. There's no if, ands, or buts about it. And it's really like, I would imagine you were fairly cut off from any communication for a good bit of time.

I was, you know, in the ICU for sure. And, you know, especially during COVID I couldn't even, you know, one person in. That's it. So not see my kids. But I was, I was, I was cut off. But as soon as I was able to get my phone, I was back on. So.

Yeah, that's the owner right there for sure. Yeah. You're thinking about the next thing, right? Like, that's, that's what you're thinking about and that's the way most visionary A type owners think. So why don't you tell us a little bit about what are some of the next things for Shamrock? Because you have put in a lot of processes and systems and platform type stuff to run your business very effectively and efficiently. Where are you headed with things?

So Shamrock is number seven on 57 on the top 100 contractor, you know, roofing contractors, and it's a platform now.

That's good, man.

That's awesome.

Yeah.

So trying to, trying to, you know, break below 50 and grow as a platform. We've are in 10 locations and we are looking to still continue to open new locations. But we're also, we open, we have a power partner program that we're looking to help other roofing contractors that are less than $10 million get on and grow using our, our, all of our processes of discounts, supplies and shingles and leads and marketing and everything else, as you know. So as well as acquire other, other companies that are at least a 3 million or 3 to 2 million EBITDA so that we can bring on and create a platform and continue to support and grow throughout the Midwest and South Central.

Okay, so what does that look like from a. When you say the word platform? It can mean a lot of things. It could mean like, I got a software platform or I've got these processes. What do you mean by that? Like, what are those, like, tangible benefits? Like, because if I'm running a roofing company and I'm doing, I don't know, two or three million bucks, I'm doing okay financially, personally, if we run it halfway clean.

Right.

What's my incentive? Why. Why would I jump into something like that?

The freedom to do more. The freedom to make more. The freedom to have, you know, the economies of scale. I have, you know, friends of mine who I've helped, you know, they're doing 3 to 4 million and they're pulling their hair out. No life at all. You know, chasing the money, chasing, you know, everything else. Because 3 to 4 million, I mean, it's really not that much.

It's.

It's a lot for a lot of people. But it's not much for a lot of people. And so it's. But, but you are burning the candle at both ends, running with your hair on fire. This gives you the ability to. Well, the tangibles are the what you're saving in your material supplies. When you're cutting a huge percentage, you know, off of what you're used to paying the labor, labor network of crews for every single style of roofing system, residential or commercial, as well as the leads shamrock. You know, our website is so much butt weight. No matter what market we move into, we can be in the top 10 fairly quickly in no time. And, and that's. I think a lot of contractors have been kind of late to the game on that. I came in from a technology, you know, background from Internet marketing when before E commerce was around, you had to write in your checks and mail them off and, and to be a part of these, you know, groups. I mean I was midor.

Right.

So I have fun geeking out with this stuff. And so I've been working with this side of the business. And so the leads aspect is one thing, the systems and processes is another.

I would think the been there, done that part might be really valuable and it may not be just you like whatever others that you've acquired. Sounds like you are the guy that's figured out the whole marketing thing. I can generate leads all day long. That's not a big worry. And you've got other talents obviously. Right. But this guy over here might be really good at customer experience and service and performing the work. This guy over here might be really good at buying and getting the right prices. And when you put all those pieces together, the sum of the parts is greater as a whole.

Absolutely.

And are you seeing any of that collaboration?

Absolutely. One firm we're looking at in Colorado, it's mainly commercial, but they, they're really good. And, and we do a lot of residential, maybe only 10% commercial. So that cross pollination, that training from within and we, we do a lot of commercial. There's not, you know, at all of them. But it's great to learn from other people what works. And plus when you're in that many different markets, there's a lot of different things in different markets. A lot of nuances about, you know, codes. Everything.

Yeah, like, yeah, every market. Colorado, especially with the codes.

Right.

It's.