Contractor Finances with Jenny DePoint

Foreign. Well, hello there everybody out there in contractor land out there in the world. This is Nathan Thibodeau. I am coach here at Contractor Coach Pro. Just bringing you another episode of Contractor Radio. As you know, we are all about people and their lives and their contracting businesses. And so today is super cool. We're going to be dealing with a subject that we probably don't hear enough about in our industry because honestly there aren't a lot of people out there who I think put this kind of content out for contractors. But in order to get that information, we are bringing on Contractor Coach Pro's very own Jenny depont, our finance coach. Hi Jenny, how are you?

I am good, thanks Nathan.

Good, good. So Jenny, you've been doing this for a little while, so why don't you give us a little bit of background because I know that you, your accounting and finance understanding isn't just broad in general, it actually is pretty specific to the contracting industry.

So.

So why don't you tell us a little bit about where you came from and your background.

Yeah, yeah. So I started as a CPA with a big firm doing corporate pretty quickly after I realized I like a lot of hands on. And my first big experience was in this construction, the roofing, siding, remodeling business. And I got to work in this industry for going on over 11, 12 years now. And it's been. I just keep getting back to this industry. I love it. I love the challenges that the accounting financials bring in this industry. I've touched some others now over the past years and I'm just passionate for this. I think you nailed it on the head. I think why I'm passionate is because it feels like there isn't a whole lot of solid structure and advice for these guys. And that's where I've just had a lot of fun building out systems, really understanding it, trying to break it down to make it doable, repeatable process for, you know, basically everyone to be able to understand their numbers and let their numbers make decisions for them and not just gut.

Well, it seems like it's pretty common for a company to have like somebody who kind of keep track of their accounts receivables, that sends out invoices and maybe they do a little bit of bookkeeping, but then they. It's pretty normal for contractors to have like an outsourced accountant, right? Like somebody who kind of handles their books, start to finish deals with their taxes. And so while they kind of understand how accounting programs work and the general inflow and outflow of money being that they're not from the construction industry, a lot of these guys don't understand, like when you get a deposit, what does that mean? What is it going towards? You know, how long does it take to retrieve this money? If we create an invoice, does that mean that money comes in in a week? Like a lot? They don't. Their general understanding of accounting sometimes isn't broad enough to understand how the money flows in a construction business.

Absolutely. That is, you know, and what I most common see coming to me is that you have, you have people that are doing, getting numbers, right. They're obviously seeing their bank account, but they're letting their bank account make their decisions of where their financials are at. And that cash, exactly. What you just touched on is in our industry, it's all over the place, especially in the insurance world. Right. Your initial check could be all over the board of percentage of that total job. And so that cash can be really, really misleading. Even early in a storm, obviously you're collecting a lot of initial checks without having to put out the money yet, without having a system that can really track what have I earned out of this. Where are we at? What are the buckets of this cash? What to expect with future cash. It's just hard. You're going off of gut and you're going off of. I see the struggles of just kind of like winging it and it can lead to some trouble spots and, you know, just poor decision making, poor accountability.

So let's get down to it a little bit. You've worked with a pretty good chunk of our clients at this point because you've been with us for what, coming up on a year, I think.

Yes. Yeah.

So happy anniversary, by the way. When you start working with a client, what is the, what's the typical status of their finances?

Yeah, I do feel like I don't know if I can pinpoint a typical because people come to me all over the board as far as what their staff is capable of, where their financials are at. But in common, it's coming to me because they are managing it off of cash. Right. They're managing off of seeing what they collect and they're struggling to make those decisions or get those numbers they want out of truly understanding what their profit is and kind of just building off being able to make their decisions off of an accurate what they've earned and not just the cash in their account. So they may struggle to know what their overhead spending is, which plays into their big picture. So they'll Come to me with those questions. And, you know, many want to get a budgeting in place. And without having a tracking system or a setup of their books correctly, it's hard to budget of any sort of value. So I think those are the common threads that keep coming to me in what seemed to be that common thread throughout our industry.

So it's holding people back from being able to make intelligent decisions. Right? So you kind of have like, you got the one kind of person who is like, we got the money, let's do it, let's just, let's go for it. Right? And then you got the other kind of person who's like, I don't know if I have the money. I don't know if I can do this. Whether they can or they can't, they don't know. And so some people charge ahead and they just happen to make enough money to cover a decision they make. And then sometimes they charge ahead and they don't actually have that.

Absolutely, absolutely. So you're absolutely hitting it on the head of like where, you know, I always say investing in your financial and administrative processes of your company have two benefits. You're touching on the one, and that's kind of what I was touching on, that accurate decision making. When you're on cash basis, you know you have the risk of making those decisions. Right. That are totally misleading direction. You may be thinking you're doing awful and really you just have a whole lot of AR to collect and you're doing great. So it's this misleading in both ways that can get people in trouble. So when we get into that more of that accrual model, looking at your numbers for what you've earned instead of that cash basis, it just helps you track. It tracks how much cash is not yours at any point, what that liability is to you.

Right?

So that's that one big piece. The second big piece in this financial is accountability. I feel like so often without these pieces, owners can't hold their team accountable because they have nothing to hold them accountable to. So I find that numbers are the best way to allow owners to not have to micromanage. Right. They don't need to say, how are you getting this job done? If you're showing me you're getting the job done based off of numbers guiding my decision as owner and my oversight, you're allowing and empowering your employees to do a lot of cool stuff for you, right?

Yeah. No, that's awesome. So when you start working with a client, is there some sort of overarching Principle that you kind of, that you apply to their accounting methodology. Like here's, you know, here's my methodology or my principle or here's how I kind of go about this. This is a guideline for how I make decisions in this.

Yeah, that's a good question. I guess my overarching philosophy in anything finances, right, is to know your numbers so you can, you can make decisions based off of what you have and not, not spend before you have it. I find that in the business world a lot, it gets eager and that's a tricky space because obviously as an entrepreneur, people, you have to be willing to take risks, right? But I like calculated risk and I like understanding what the payoffs of your risk could be. And not just taking risks because you want to spend to get to that next level. Let your profits help you grow your business, right? Prove a model at a smaller rate, Keep that money in the business and let that build for you. You can then use that money to go. So I guess my philosophy in general is to, to really let your business let your profits drive your growth. Keep the money you earn in the early stages inside your business. So it just allows you to be stress free and lets you to spend more of your energy.

Like it.

Well, I shouldn't say stress free in the financial piece, right? Like where if you're just, there's you.

Know what you have and you know what you don't, right? You know what you have and you know what you don't. And it's like, well, if I don't have this, then okay, let's go get that, right?

Get that first.

I mean, I kind of think that's, that's pretty similar to like your own personal finances too, right? If you're looking to make a big purchase with your personal finances and you look at your bank account, you're like, hey, I've got enough money to buy this thing. But your bills are coming up. Like, do you really have enough money to buy that?

Yes.

Right?

So philosophy is knowing it so you can make those.

Let's say that there's a contractor out there listening to this and he's going, yeah, he or she is thinking, I'm not totally sure I know what's going on with my stuff. Are there some telltale signs, some cracks in the dam that might be evidence that your finances maybe aren't in real great shape or that you're headed towards a bad position?

Yeah, I see, you know, I see first step is getting that accurate financials so you can have trigger again without it, you're, you're, you're trying to trigger things off of gut. There's nothing to tell you those trouble spots. So getting the accurate financials, then we'll set up trigger stages and trigger points from marketing, I mean obviously marketing feeds to sales, sales feeds to production, production feeds to collections. Right? So you have this plethora of data that until you have the pockets and the understanding of the numbers, it's hard to have trigger points. Right. You have nothing to, you're triggering it off of your gut. But once you do get to there. One of the biggest eye openers I see companies having is they're able to pinpoint their overhead spending. Right. They're able to look at it from more of a break even standpoint. This is our fixed cost, this is what we're spending on our company. What do I need to be having in sales which again drives some marketing decisions and what do we need to be able to be producing and completing on the production side to sustain the spending we're having on overhead? So I think those are some of the biggest trigger points and eye opening points is when people see, yep, now I know my numbers, now I'm, I know I'm spending this much. I need to be hitting some pretty high numbers or whoa, we're going to be doing pretty good at our sales numbers, right? You can kind of have that break even point to give you that, that trigger of how we're doing, how we're going to be.

So I'm that same contractor and I'm like, okay, great. So Jenny just terrified me because there's nothing in my accounting to tell me whether or not I'm doing well or headed for a cliff. Right? So now I'm like kind of freaked out. That would be me anyway, because that's how I am. If you were me, what would be your first step? And you say, okay, so we need to figure out whether we're headed towards a cliff or not. What would you do first?

Hire a finance coach.

I like it.

Yes.

Don't forget contractorcoachpro.com no, but for real.

I mean my take on that is like, yes, you can trial and error. You can have the, I mean step one is really having your right person that can own this for you as owner.

Right.

You have the time that you're investing into all areas. This admin piece more so than many other industries, which is why I like it. This admin leg of your puzzle here is a huge piece to your success. It's not an ancillary thing that can be done once a year, once a quarter on the back burner from an outside accounting firm. I mean, your admin piece is so crucial in this industry. So to have that person. When I coach, I coach with the person, not necessarily the owners. I coach you, your right hand person, to be that owner for you so you can feel confident in what you're looking at. And so I do see that as step one, you know, step one to getting yourself there is to have somebody own it, be that champion for that piece of it, and then it's setting up. I do feel like a coach gets you there way faster than they'll be able to get on your own. You know, living through the bumps and bruises of this industry and the seasons of this industry, that's where we can help set up that systems a lot faster than troubleshooting and figuring it out on your own. Oftentimes start with just the basics of. Let's look at your structure of your accounts. Let's take a look at your chart of accounts and how you're categorizing. How is that bookkeeping being done?

Yeah, so let's do something a little more granular. Could you maybe lay out a scenario? Maybe it's from one of your clients you've worked with. Obviously, maybe no names, but maybe a scenario where somebody was looking to make a decision in their business. Okay. And these numbers are what gave them the thumbs up or the thumbs down? Do you have something like, okay, so we had a. I don't know, maybe. Maybe some of the tools that you helped them put in place allowed them to make a certain decision one way or the other. Could you lay out like a use case on that? What, what that would look like if somebody had that?

Yeah. I'm thinking of a couple different things that come to my mind. Again, there's tools throughout all of this that we love. I love to work with. What are you trying to accomplish? What is your goal and how can a tool. First off, what do we already have in place? From your CRM to QuickBooks, what do we have in place? And now how can we utilize a tool to bridge that gap? Right. To get you there. So some of the pieces, I mean, the one that came to my mind, the first off, like I said, is that eye opener to companies, is that break even number. Because what that's doing, again, when you have it structured into the right accounts from an overhead spending level, you're able to see what is our spending in these different categories, what's our total spending and really drive Those decisions on the different categories, we do a lot of work on just a profit pie model of what are we spending in these different categories compared to what we're trying to do accomplish revenue wise and production wise. So, you know, I'm trying to dive that into a little, you know, more detailed, I think along the line of this is going off of the overhead, whether it's commissions. Right. We do a lot of detailed work around understanding this. The commission piece is a, oftentimes 10% of your gross revenue. That's a chunk of a chunk of that.

So that's a good one. Well, we dig in on that one just a little bit. Right. Because some guys, and this will probably be really. A lot of guys will probably be interested in hearing this. A lot of people will wonder like, so some people are, they look at their commission structure, whether they pay, you know, a salary in a commission, whether they pay straight commission, whether that commission's based off their gross profit or whether they, it's a straight number off of the revenue sold. And they look at their commission structure. And a lot of the questions that I hear from people are how, how do I know how much I can spend on, let's say, or how do I know how much I can pay my salespeople? Or how do I know how much I can afford to pay a marketing person or can I afford to hire a new admin? Or how much should I pay a general manager in my business? I hear those kinds of questions a lot.

Yeah. So to me, that comes down to the budgeting side of it. And budgeting is like the last thing I usually coach people on because it's really tough to budget if you don't know the other side of your, you know, know your financials. Right. And have a system that's holding them accountable to a budget. Because it's, it's. If you're not categorizing things right, or the setup is not set up, you know, in a structure that makes sense, what are you budgeting based off of? But that, that budget is really what will allow you to red flag things, but also help you plan, help you see, okay, if we're expecting to do this amount of revenue, we know our fixed costs, we can plug in those numbers. Now you can see where that wiggle room is on the categories. You're debating how much more. Okay, we see where we're at. We see what our. Based off of our budget. Right. What we're estimating. And obviously, you know, that estimate on the sales side is driven from a Whole lot of else planning, whether you're going to per rep or per marketing endeavor, like, there's a lot of strategy behind that as well. But from the overhead, like you're speaking of how much can I afford for these categories? You know, I just feel like it's again, getting those financials in place and then breaking it down. Breaking it down to what do we know? What are our variable type situations? So we can start to say, hey, if we're going to do this revenue, I know how much wiggle room I have, how do I want to. What do I feel like is important to me? And I feel like it's sometimes different. You look at your skills as an owner and you may have a great skill in one area, but need a little help in a different area. So it's going to vary based off of what your assets are, what your employee, you're yourself and your employees that you have. And then it's kind of strategizing from there. But knowing those numbers, knowing the budget will help you make those decisions.

Yeah. So have you ever, in working with a client, have you ever had a moment where you guys were kind of running your numbers, Somebody was like, oh my goodness, like something was just totally different than what they thought or expected? It was.

Oh, absolutely. I think I come across that often where whether I think the most common ones to me are employees will creep in there at times they'll realize, whoa, what am I selling on my production employees? Or this is how much I'm spending on my admin overhead. You know, like, they'll, they'll trigger with some of that. Marketing is a huge one. I think, you know, that's the dangling fruit of like, Yep, I want to invest money here because I need this sales to get up to where I want to be. And that can be a big eye opener when that's starting to be tracked.

Accordingly and go, oh my Gosh, I'm spending 15% on marketing.

Yes. So to me, I feel like that's probably the bigger trigger one that I see is just not realizing how much they are spending in that area.

Yeah. I always wonder, like calculating things like labor burden, how much it costs to employ somebody when we just bring somebody on and we pay them what they think is fair. And then on the back end, when it's, you know, when it's tax time, it's like, oh boy, we didn't realize how much more it was going to cost us to hire this person.

For sure. For sure. And you know, we talk about tools before we definitely, you Know, I work with my clients on different tools that lay out what is that. Some of them are percentage based, some of them are flat. That fees that you have that flat dollar amount of whether it's a benefit you provide them or you know, different supplies or materials. So yes, we have tools that help us conceptualize that.

It gets complicated too. Right. Especially because a lot of guys are starting to, rather than doing this 1099 model, they're starting to make, especially like salespeople, employees. And then because they want to compete for good labor, they're offering things like 401ks and healthcare and salary matches on this stuff is like, well, if you have, if you have a salesperson sell a million bucks one year and you're doing a 3 or 4% salary or retirement match, what happens when that person does one and a half million or two million? That match looks significantly different.

Yep. And that's that picture of, you know, setting it up to be able to conceptualize like your match may be more of that percentage fluctuation. But now at the 2 million dollar mark, they have some of these flat fees that become negligible because they're bringing in so much revenue. So percentage wise, it's, you know, it just, it varies. And so there's no, like you said, it's the opposite. True too. You budgeted for them off of a million dollars. You may be providing them a health insurance benefit, but now they only bring in $300,000. Well, hey, that percentage is a lot more to you at that rate. So it's understanding that picture. So, you know, managing your sales can grasp, okay, how much is this truly costing me? I definitely see that trend of wanting to provide these environments for sales reps to feel like the loyalty so they're not jumping around as much as they've historically maybe have in the past in our industry that they are loyal to you as a company. And that's that feeling of, hey, we have a whole package for you, we're taking care of you. We're not just a place to come in and make some money and leave. We want you to be part of our team.

Yeah. So not a lot of people understand this. I know. I'm one of them. I don't understand the ins and outs of these things. Right. But at the same time, as an owner, we should at least know how to do some things. We should know how to get the information that we need. Right. So as an owner, I need to have at least some financial literacy. And some of you owners out there have dealt with the effects of not knowing those things and relying on somebody else and having that person burn you. I've heard that. I've heard that story numerous times. I don't know how to use QuickBooks. I don't know what all that stuff in there means. So I always relied on so and so to take care of it. And come to find out that person's been stealing from me for years. So if you're an owner and you have your right hand person and you're working with Jenny and Jenny's getting that right hand person all set up, what kind of things should an owner know or be able to do so that they can proactively keep an eye on their finances? Or like how educated should they be about this? Reasonably speaking?

That's a great question. And I always end, you know, like I said, I usually start with the owner helping them understand the whole process. And I always end with the owner back in the picture. The middle ground is what they don't need to get caught up in that muck of the details. Right. That's the right hand man to do that. But at the end, I absolutely want the owner understanding this financial package we provide and what I'm coaching their team to be able to provide them. They need to understand it enough so they can hold it accountable to their team. They don't care about the details unless something's red flagging to them. So again, it's walking through. What I typically walk through with the owners is I really like to look at that P and L on a monthly basis where they're kind of seeing monthly trends. They're seeing where things are triggering up, triggering down. It sticks out to them on the P and L side that once we can get you to that budgeting point, the budget to actual is huge for them. They want to give the right accountability. There's all awesome features within QuickBooks to categorize things by class or areas that can hold the right people accountable to their numbers. And hey, set up that budget at the beginning of the year. Get to the right understanding. Maybe some are based off a percentage of revenue, maybe some are flat. And you as owner can just understand that I'm reading a budget to actual. I care about the things that are over budget, right?

Yeah.

If they're under budget or hitting budget, I don't need to worry about it. But I want to understand that when I see a red flag box shining to me that says this is over budget, I need to understand that. I want to know what's going on here. I Want the person accountable to this and maybe it's themselves. Right. I say budget to actuals can hold yourself as owner accountable. I want to be understanding of what I'm looking at. So from that financial perspective that P and L in different ways of looking at it are key.

Okay, so P and L a budget to actual.

You called it a budget to actual. Just comparing how your actual P and L compared to what you expected or that budgeted P and L. It compares the two. Yep. And we get down to, you know, the balance sheet is such a valuable report to the accuracy of your P and L. I don't necessarily concern my owners with needing to grasp that report. There's some reports more of a cash flow analysis I like to pull out of that piece balance sheet that I want them to understand for sure. But a balance sheet can be an intimidating piece that I usually get their right hand man owning that because they're validating that before we give the owner numbers. Because if that balance sheet is not accurate, your P and L is not accurate.

I'm surprised by that. I kind of expected a balance sheet to be something you think owners should should understand how to read. So that caught me off guard, I guess. Kind of thought that would be something they would need to know. But that's kind of cool.

Well, it's because it's an intimidating report that I'd like to break it down into other things that make sense to them. So I have part of our. Absolutely the best. When I'm talking to the right hand man that I'm coaching, I drive home. Balance sheet is your.

Bible that you own.

Right. You need to own. And we set up detailed processes of who, how each month are you validating those balance sheet numbers? Right. So you're telling the owner we have the checks and balances in place to say yep, our balance sheet is validated. So important. But it's one of those reports that I like to give the owners the pieces of that puzzle that are important to them. So when I break that back to when we go to this accrual basis, a huge piece of your balance sheet are these factors that come into the job costing. Right? Right. You have an unearned revenue amount or those customer deposits. Right. That are. Those relate to jobs but they're not your money yet. You haven't earned that income. You also have what I refer to as that WIP cost. Those costs that are from jobs that are in progress. WIP work in progress. It's the costs that are you're paying on materials that the job isn't even completed yet. You haven't earned that money, so that's really an asset to you. Clearly it's offset because you've collected money from that. But this is a system that allows us to.

You said asset, that's an asset or a liability to you if you've taken the deposit and haven't done the work.

That's where it depends, right? It depends on how much versus how, how much you paid out versus how much you've collected. That's why without that system, you can imagine it's a nightmare to track that manually because it changes every day you pay bills every day you.

It's the thing like, you know, they have that crazy statistic about the number of people who start a small business that don't make it within the first three years. And if I'm not mistaken, this right here is the number one reason why. Right. They might have a great sales year, but they don't have the cash to fund all these jobs or all this work that they, they haven't collected money for. So then they get into collectors and they owe too many people money and then they're taking deposits to pay their collectors for jobs that they want that they just built or haven't built yet.

Yes. And that's again, maybe my passion is like, you don't want to be in that space. Go back to that initial philosophy of, you know, do the right thing, build the business first, let some money stay in the business so you're not in that space. Right. Your profit is. As long as you don't take the Prof. Out of your business, your cash is never going to be an issue. If you've had profitable years, Right. And now it's that, you know, balance of how much cash do you leave in versus takeout? But absolutely on the sake of, you know, just, just knowing that and understanding that.

Good. So maybe we can. Maybe we can. Anybody listening to this who's kind of like me might be like, oh my gosh, now I'm a little freaked out. How often do you work with a client and start getting their numbers together and it starts becoming like a real freak out thing, like we're in trouble versus getting your numbers together and going, okay, we're actually okay. Like we didn't know that we were okay, but we're not bad. Like, is that, is that, like, is it pretty often or how does that, what do you think that ratio is of when you work with somebody?

That's a great question. I don't know if I know I definitely don't have a one way versus I've seen both. I've definitely seen both. You know, I don't know if I've had. I don't know if I can answer that in a ratio. I see both in the sense of. I would have to guess 50, 50. Like, it just seems like people are at a different, you know, everyone has different pressure points or surprises or, you know, I've never come across somebody that's like, oh, my gosh, I need to stop right now. Like, I, you know, I can't. So. Yeah, I don't know if that answers your question fully.

No, I think it does. I just, I mean, like, how often are these people running their businesses, you know, not really knowing these things. Now, if you're running your business and you don't know it, but you are being pretty profitable, I mean, like, you know, good for you. But if you're not running your business and you're actually not, you know, like, you're. You need to know even more and even faster than the other person does. But if you don't know, you don't know which camp you fall into. I was hoping maybe you might be like, well, most people are actually okay when I talk to them. But if it's 50, 50, remember contractorcoachpro.com.

You know, when you talk about 50, 50 of dire. That's what I'm saying. I don't come across people that are like, oh, my gosh. Okay.

That's kind of what I was wondering is.

Yeah, yeah, okay. So that's where I guess it's hard for me. I don't, I don't attack it like that. I get so invested in these companies. I feel for all of them. So I don't. I never look at them like, oh, my gosh, you're in dire shape. That's where I mean, like, I don't think I could put. But there's definitely equal number. I think I overwhelmingly get to feel the support of, wow, I'm so happy to have these numbers that I don't, you know, maybe I don't see the side of now they're digesting of where they. From their gut. Is this worse than they thought or better than they thought? Yeah, I just get to hear that. And that's my passion, is to get you to the point I can't make magical decisions for you or I can't tell you like, yep, do this and you are, you know, golden. My passion and goal is to let you make accurate, you know, let you make the decisions based off of good information.

Well, Jenny, if somebody, if somebody can't tell that you're passionate about this by listening to this, they're clearly not paying attention. So I'm going to switch gears just a little bit on you. And I didn't tell you I was going to do this. So what we'll say Jim does this too and we do this at Contractor Coach Pro Radio. Right. So getting married, having kids after that. For Jenny Dupoint, what do you feel is your greatest accomplishment?

Oh, you are putting me on the spot.

That's what makes it fun.

Yeah. The greatest accomplishment. I feel like I've been challenged with this question. I don't know if I've ever pinpointed it. Clearly I'm a passionate person and I just love to help people. And I think, you know, I said this to our team here. I love Contractor Coach Pro for that reason is we get to do our work to help people. And that's clearly what I'm passionate about. And I feel like it is. I guess it is. Maybe one of my biggest accomplishments is that I've been able to get myself to this point now where I can not only help one company and develop what I have developed over the years, but now I get a platform to have a system that I can help a lot of people.

Oh goodness. Well, it's our pleasure to be able to help you with that. Holy cow. We get to be one of your. Part of your greatest accomplishment. That is super cool. I love that. Alright, so let's see. I've got another one for you. So I heard a rumor that we don't make it out of this life alive. So at some point all of this stuff kind of comes to an end when that moment has happened for you and there's all of these people there to celebrate the life of Jenny. What would you like for them to remember you most by?

I'm going real deep here, Nathan. Wow, that's kind of a daunting question to me. You know, I don't know, I guess it's, you know, like, I guess it's tapping into that my mission and model to just want to serve and love others. Right. And I would love nothing more than to be remembered for those, those traits and not the many other maybe not so great traits of it all. But like, that's what I'm passionate about. That's what I, you know, I hope to be remembered for.

Well, that is, that is a great answer and I know I put you on the spot with that one, but it is a fantastic answer. So thank you so much for taking a little bit of time and talking to people a little bit about their finances. For those of you listening, this is what she loves to do. She loves to problem solve. And I can say that from personal experience and working with Jenny, she is constantly trying to help me be better. And that is a daunting task. So, from all of us here at Contractor Coach Pro, we can't wait to bring you our next episode. So stay tuned, keep your eyes peeled, and we'll have something else out for you soon. Oh, and if you want to get in contact with Jenny, don't hesitate to hit us up at our website, contractorcoachpro.com or you can find us on any of the social media platforms, Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, or all of those. So we will see you guys next time.