Heart Strong with Garen Armstrong

Hey, good afternoon, everybody. It is Jim Johnson, your host here with Contractor Radio and the head coach at Contractor Coach Pro, where we help contractors get control of their business so they can grow their business and achieve that lifestyle and personal freedom and financial freedom they were chasing when they started their business. Today is going to be a show of miracles. It is something that I've wanted to have this guy on for a while, but I waited intentionally for this particular time and place to do so. We're doing our Contractor summer series. This guy is an amazing individual who runs an amazing business, and he's got unbelievable talent that steps in and fills the gaps. It is my honor to have on our show today from Shamrock Roofing, Garen Armstrong. What's going on, man? It's good to have you, Jim.

It's great to be here. It's always great to be in your presence. Really is.

Well, we'll get to the story of, like, how we met and what all. What all went down there at some point. But just so all the listeners know who you are and a little bit of your story, like, how did you get into this home services, construction, roofing thing? And just kind of bring us up to speed with where you are today.

Sure. Garen Armstrong with Shamrock Roofing and Construction. And I got into it when my dad was started in 1977, but it was a side thing. It was his main deal. And anyway, when I worked doing that growing up, but I did not want to do that, you know, all my life. So it's hard work. And anyhow, I wanted to do. Sit behind a desk or do finance or something like that. Long story short, I went and did that for a minute and then it didn't work out. My dad got sick and so I got back into the business to help him. And it's been a whole change since helping him back in the day versus what it looked like, what it looks like now in regards to the business, the size of the business, everything about the business.

So. So were you guys like, like, sell it and install it, too, like you actually did the work?

Oh, that's all we did was the work.

Like you. Yeah, you're on like you're tearing stuff off.

Yes, yes, yes.

You know, you hear this term for those kinds of companies, right? Like Chuck in the truck, Pete in the pickup, that type of thing?

Yeah.

Is that. Is that kind of how it started?

No, it was more started with my dad and his friends and uncles and, you know, and a side thing. It wasn't just roofing. It was electrical. It Was, you know, framing. It was everything. Plumbing, construction, everything.

And so everything from building a house to putting a roof on.

Yes, from putting a roof on. And so then, you know, it was. It wasn't. It was doing. Doing too many things, right? Doing. Because of all those. We basically honed them down to, you know, roofing. Before we had roofing, we were roofing deck all, everything we need government contract work. But it. But we had to stop. Well, we have. Once we stopped the government contract work, once we stopped doing all the other things, and once we focused on roofing and gutters, then we started growing like wildfire.

Okay, so you trimmed down all the offerings to what made you trim them down first? Like, and how'd you decide which ones?

There was too many distractions with them all, and it was too difficult to train your sales guys, your estimators, on multiple things. You chase two rabbits, both will escape. And so once we honed in on the largest ticket item, most profitable item is how we chose to answer the question. And then we was able to scale from there.

Actually pretty smart. Like, I think a lot of people, they find fear in that. Like, hey, there's a job I could go do if I just go take it. Right. And so you're now saying no to things that you would. Would have done before. And this fear of being able to fill it with just a little bit of the stuff that you were doing before, how did you overcome that?

It's a real fear, and it did impact our revenue and our numbers, but. But we planned for it. I talked to it with my controller, my cfo, let them know that was the plan. And, you know, we. We just financial. Modeled it with the increase of. Of. Of the roofing sales, you know, and just effort. And we ended up even beating our effort with just the roofing sales because it's such a distraction when you've got so much going on. There's something about being able to have, you know, singularity of focus.

Yeah. One of the things I love about it is how you can market it. It's hard to market. We do it. All right, it's hard to market. Like, I'm a general contractor. And what does that mean? And there's variations of, you know, commercial general contractor, home general. Like, there's all that stuff. But if you can say, hey, I do roofing, you can be very specific in your marketing to people that actually want what it is that you do. Did you guys click to that right away, like that was part of the thought process, or did you come across that or learn that later?

I learned that later.

It does make it easier. Would you agree?

It makes things easier? Yes.

Yeah, for sure. It's one of the things. Whenever we're coaching, we look at a contractor and they're like, they do everything. Roofing, siding, gutters, windows, screens, coming ac, all of it. And we're like, okay, which ones are the most profitable? Which ones give you the most grief? Let's get rid of the ones that give you grief. Let's focus on these two or three and then market those two, Two or three specifically. And it goes pretty well normally. And you can systematize it then. You can scale it then.

Yes. Is.

That is. And so is it down to just roofing now or do you do a couple of other things too? We.

We do.

We'll.

We'll do siding and we'll do, you know, interior. We don't advertise it. And, and it's one of those things that if there's a client, it's a big client, and they want it all done to, to get all, you know, they want it all encompassing. We can do it. I'm a class A general contractor, can build bridges and skyscrapers in 48 states. So we can. But we, we try. We try not to.

Yeah. Okay, I got you. As you, as you transitioned from do it all with dad, and then you're transitioning now to keeping it down to two or three things that we do, really great. What were the biggest obstacles? Did you start to become the leader of the business? Was dad still the leader of business? Was there any friction there? What happened there?

So, no, what had happened there was. He had. We weren't.

I.

He and I had left the business when I was younger and, and so I then was helping consulting for. I had a finance background and software, built a software and sold the Department of Defense. It's another story. It wasn't a home run. It was more like a single. Like, I bought and beat out a single. So it sounds cool, but it's really wasn't cool. And, and I was like, okay, every, you know, I'm around with a bunch of very smart, passive aggressive people all the time, you know, and technology. And I'm like, you know, I really like the construction thing, you know, construction management aspect of everything. But, you know, maybe I'll try this, but I want, I want to try something. Something different. I, you know, growing up in the business, I had my dad's friends that, you know, they have businesses and everyone else, so I could easily gotten a job back in construction, in any other multitude of business. I answered an ad out of a Craigslist because I didn't want to do that. I wanted to learn something completely different to see what I could. You could do. Long story short, I was out an ad from a company local, said they're local and. But they're out of Texas. And that was a project manager job. And they gave me a stack of cards, and they said, go knock these doors. I'm like, what in the world?

Yeah, What I get myself into?

What did I get myself into? And I'm like, okay, well, I see other people that are successful doing this, so I'm just gonna see what this is about. And I. I was really weird at first because I'm used to being in boardrooms, and I'm used to being, you know, so I had to really check my ego at the door. Like, what? You know, and then it was at.

The white boardroom to door to door sales guy. Yeah.

Yeah. And so. But. But. But then it was fun because I could just sit there and freestyle with people and talk to people and help people. So I like that aspect of it. But immediately I'm starting to analyze, you know, his business and business processes and systems, the guy I went to work for, you know, and like, oh, this is, you know, I see what's up. But what I learned from that was I learned the insurance side of things. That's what I didn't have with my dad's business. It was Chuck and Chuck side hustle business. You know what I mean? Just right. You know, growing up and, you know, that's what you. What you learn. So that's what we did. So that's how. That's. That's my story of how I got into this and then continue to move forward. Then I. My dad got sick, and then I came back and. And helped take Shamrock. Learned what I learned in the insurance side of business with construction management class, general contractor license. And then what I. You know, what my dad taught me with work ethic and everything else, then, you know, all of those things combined. And you know what I've learned in the sale with the Department of Defense and that other deal. So there was a combination of things that I learned that was able to help me take this over after my dad passed, got cancer and passed away, that I was able to take it, Shamrock, and grow it to this level.

So give us a little bit of growth patterns. How long have you been running Shamrock and what does that look like?

Over time, I've been growing it since 2017. I passed away in 2016. It took a little time. Morning. Getting everything together in the fall of 2016 is really kind of when everything started to come together. And then 2017. So 2017, it was, you know, really 3 million, 3 mil. You know, 2018, that's when I had this. I got the infection in my heart, and I had to go get this heart pump put in, which is. We can talk. Well, that was in 2018, and we had 3 million after that. It was 7, 15, 25, 32, and we're hitting 30, 38, 40 this year.

Wow, that's some pretty exponential growth. And you alluded to it just for a second there. This is the part I really want to talk about, because I see a lot of guys that there's nothing in their way. It's just hard work is what's in their way. You alluded to got a heart pump put in in 2018. Is that right?

Yes, 2018, I had that.

So this is two years after your father had passed. Obviously, there's probably some concern there, right? Like, now we're thinking all kinds of other things, and this business is now just starting to take off. How did you manage that?

Well, you know, back up a little bit. I had immediately I was working a hotel that burned down, and I was breathing in this char, and the char went to my. My Gave me a sinus infection that went to my heart, and my heart went bad in 45 days. In 45 days. It went so bad that I code blue. I got dizzy on the way to the hospital. And on the hospital, they code blew me. And it was immediately I was in the surgery room and they were opening me up. It was so bad. They kept me, did more tests on me, and then they was able to. They had to cut me open and put a heart pump in me, which is a HeartMate 3, first one in Kansas City. And it's just a flow that keeps your blood flow. So I keep my organs alive because my heart was so bad. I just had. I was on the list to get a transplant or live with that. At that time, I had to heal enough still to be able to receive a heart transplant. And because I'm a. O positive blood, I can give to A's and I can give to Bs, but O's can only accept O's. So the list, the wait time was longer, and it was during COVID And so I ended up spending, you know, three years waiting for the heart. Just. Just shy of three years. But even back that story up while I had the heart mate three, you know, in. I was living on batteries. Batteries. I wear, you know, Under Armour football pants so I can tuck the batteries in my jeans, put jeans on because otherwise they want you to wear this vest and look like a goober. And I still wanted to have some swag, you know.

Yeah, I look good while we're at it, right?

Yeah. And so I put these and they look like, you know, it was a little. Had hips, you know, but it worked. And I was able to tuck the wires in there because I had a wire hanging out of my side here. And I was able to go to work. So I was able to go to go to work with these batteries hanging out of me and this heart pump. And so I just, I showed up, I kept going. But during that time, you know, the business was just startup, you know, taking over and was going. And then I got sick and then a lot of the team, absent a leader, they leave. So they left. But the people that stepped up who are here today have really grown, grown personally grown the business, grown so much. Every person, everybody, myself included, all of us. And it's, you know, we really, through this journey, had just locked arms and marched forward together. And then, you know, when I'm gone, I'm in the, in the hospital, they're able to, you know, just keep. Keep things going. It's just keep it moving forward, you know, because after I had the heart pump, I was working and I was throwing some shingles and I ended up ripping the heart pump out of my. My heart. And so the blood was filling up, filled up my pleural sac that holds the lungs. It filled up. Your body holds. Has seven liters of blood. It had filled up three liters, was pushing my lung up. So I had to go back in, have another surgery to sew the pump in and drain all the blood out of my lung and everything. And then during that surgery, saved my life again. Same surgeon then, but. But during that time it got infected. And the infection is ultimately what was. Was killing me faster than the heart pump because of, you know, just the infection around the metal around heart. It was bad. So I had to, you know, have a couple surgeries in that time to have all that cleaned out. But to the point, finally I was in ICU dying in 2020, in December of 2020. And it was just a real scary time there. And, you know, not knowing whether, you know you're going to live, you're not. But it was, in retrospect, it was a great time. I Learned so much from that time, reflecting in myself and life, in my kids lives and in my family's life and everything. So it was very. You know, there's definitely the seed of equivalent benefit in going through an experience like that.

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It was 2022 or 21.

It was before that. It had to be 20, 21.

2021 then. Yeah, because I. Surgery, right. Like in. It was in 21. It wasn't 21.

Yeah.

So it wasn't a year since I had my correct. Right.

And I was, I was, I was in awe. I was sitting there going, dude, this guy just had a heart put in and he's like, at work.

I was really fragile. I was just walking.

We could tell. Yeah. And the thing I noticed as much as anything else was your team, your team was. It's kind of like when you get forced into something, you rise to the occasion, right?

Yes.

It's what it struck me as with your team. So what it was. There was talent there, but they needed this opening for them to rise to the occasion. And now we don't suggest that anybody go get a heart transplant or anything like that to figure that out with their team, but would you say that that's. That's a good thing for the team to create that type of situation where, hey, it's on you. You got to step up and do things. And is that a good suggestion or would you say maybe not the way to go about things?

I think it. I think creating a succession, planning at first, having everything set up and then step back, you know, in a short period, you know, and then, you know, come in, you know, you're kind of there, and then step back for a longer period. That's what happened. With. With our team because it was through so many different surgeries. The first time I was out, you know, but I was. I had my laptop, so I was able to ask, answer questions. Right. It was second time, you know, it was like, oh, he's in the hospital again, but we know what we're doing. They got more confidence. And then the, you know, the third time, it's like, oh, he's having, you know, another heart surgery. No big deal. By the fourth time, oh, he just had his heart transplanted this time. It's no big deal. He's got.

We'll see him in a few weeks. He'll be right back. Yeah, so there's something to learn from that. Like putting your team under the fire for a period of time to see what they rise to. That doesn't mean check out, right? Like, that's not. That's not the thing. We got to come back in and like, hey, coach. And then give advice where advice is needed. But if they don't go through the experience, they don't ever grow into that position. Would you agree with that?

Absolutely agree. Because sometimes I find myself grooming or training somebody, and I put enough weight on them and their knees start to break, and they just can't make it. No matter how much time I groom them, they're just something about them. They're not, you know, maybe they're not right for that. That position. So you need to make sure that you're, you know, weight test your, you know, your leaders or your team as you have out there.

Well, I see so many leaders that groom their team up. They're coaching them, they're teaching them, and they're, like, bringing them up, but they're always like a safety valve, right? There's safety valve that you can rely on. And so they're empowered, but they're not autonomous. And that's a very different thing. And when you're autonomous, bad things happen. You gotta make some decisions. There's nobody there to give you a backup. And I see so many owners not do that with their teams. Not let them actually fail, not let them. We call it the figure it out factor. Like, go through that part of it. Because that experience is so invaluable. Because now they know, hey, I messed up, and I would do it this way differently next time or hot dang, I did that. Right. Good job.

Right?

Yeah. That would be a big takeaway from our conversation today. Like, if you're sitting out there as an owner, if you're planning to get into a position where it's not running you every day and you're not in the day to day and you're not micromanaging, but you're macro managing. You got to give your team the opportunity to rise to the occasion, cut them loose, let them know, like, set it up even. It's nice because you were able to go, hey, I got surgery coming up, see you later. I'm out of here. There's no if, ands or buts about it. And it's really like, I would imagine you were fairly cut off from any communication for a good bit of time.

I was, you know, in the ICU for sure. And you know, especially during COVID I couldn't even, you know, one person in. That's it. So not see my kids. But I was, I was, I was cut off. But as soon as I was able to get my phone, I was back on. So.

As the owner, right there, for sure.

Yeah.

Well, you're, you're thinking about the next thing, right? Like, that's, that's what you're thinking about and that's the way most visionary A type owners think. So why don't you tell us a little bit about what are some of the next things for Shamrock? Because you have put in a lot of processes and systems and platform type stuff to run your business very effectively and efficiently. Where are you headed with things?

So Shamrock is number seven on 57 on the top 100 contractor, you know, roofing contractors. And it's a platform now.

That's good, man. That's awesome.

Yeah. So trying to, trying to, you know, break below 50 and grow as a platform. We've are in 10 locations and we are looking to still continue to open new locations. But we're also, we open, we have a power partner program. We're looking to help other roofing contractors that are less than $10 million get on and grow using our, our, all of our processes of discounts, supplies and shingles and leads and marketing and everything else, as you know. So as well as acquire other companies that are at least a 3 million or 3 to 2 million EBITDA so that we can bring on and create a platform and continue to support and grow throughout the Midwest and South Central.

Okay, so what does that look like from a. When you say the word platform? It can mean a lot of things. It can mean like, I got a software platform or I've got these processes. What do you, what do you mean by that? Like, what are those, like tangible benefits? Like, because if I'm running a roofing company and I'm doing, I don't know, two or three million bucks. I'm doing okay financially, personally, if we run it halfway clean.

Right.

What's my incentive? Why. Why would I jump into something like that?

The freedom to do more. The freedom to make more. The freedom to have, you know, the economies of scale. I have, you know, friends of mine who I've helped, you know, they're doing 3 to 4 million and they're pulling their hair out. No life at all. You know, chasing the money, chasing, you know, everything else. Because 3 to 4 million, I mean, it's really not that much. It's a lot for a lot of people, but it's not much for a lot of people. And so it's. But. But you are burning the candle at both ends, running with your hair on fire. And this gives you the ability to. Well, the tangibles are the. What you're saving in your material supplies when you're cutting a huge percentage, you know, off of what you're used to paying the labor, labor network of.

Of.

Of crews for every single tile style of. Of roofing system, residential or commercial, as well as. As the leads Shamrock. You know, our website is so much but weight. No matter what market we move into, we can be in the top 10 fairly quickly in no time. And that's. I think a lot of contractors have been kind of late to the game on that. I came in from a technology, you know, background from Internet marketing, when before E commerce was around, you had to write in your checks and mail them off. And to be a part of these groups, I mean, I was my dork, right. So I have fun geeking out with this stuff. And so I've been working with the side of the business. And so the leads aspect is one thing. The systems and processes is another.

I would think the been there, done that part might be really valuable. And it may not be just you like whatever others that you've acquired. It sounds like you are the guy that's figured out the whole marketing thing. I can generate leads all day long. That's not a big worry. And you've got other talents, obviously. Right. But this guy over here might be really good at customer experience and service and performing the work. This guy over here might be really good at buying and getting the right prices. And when you put all those pieces together, the sum of the parts is greater, you know, greater as a whole.

Absolutely.

And are you seeing any of that collaboration?

Absolutely. One firm we're looking at in Colorado, it's mainly commercial, but they. They're really good. And, and we do a lot of residential, maybe only 10% commercial. So that cross pollination, that training from within, and we, we do a lot of commercial. There's not, you know, at all of them, but it's great to learn from other people what works. And, and plus, when you're in that many different markets, there's a lot of different things in different markets, a lot of nuances about, you know, codes, everything. What?

Yeah, like, yeah, every market, Colorado, especially with the codes.

Right.

I'd say elevation this and elevation that. Right, right. So why. Why do, like, you got a pretty good company, you generating pretty awesome. Why. Why do the, hey, merger acquisition, pro contractor aspect of things or power contractor. Right. Why do this?

Great question. You know, I could sit on the beach and rot. You know, I've got two nice homes and couple boats and all that stuff, but that doesn't make me happy at all. In fact, it brought me less joy. I. They told me when I was having the heart transplant that I needed to have less stress in my life, go buy a boat and house. So I go buy a house and a boat and I'm sitting on the lake and I'm like, that seems more stressful.

I have both of those things. They were both stressful.

Yeah. And so I, What I find brings me joy is being with everybody. I got to. When I get to go with the families of everybody that we're impacting and helping, that that's a reason why I do it, why I help with Shamrock. The reason why I want to continue to grow the level that we're doing is because the space needs it. Right. If you don't have a business person from an operator, roofing operator, helping grow the platform, and you just let all these other PE firms from outside of the industry that really don't know the industry, that aren't operators, you know, that think they know best business practices because they're sitting behind a desk looking at financial models. Bad things happen when an industry gets ran by that.

And so when you let the bean counters run it, you're in trouble.

Right, Right.

And so is the consumer, I think. I think the consumer is who pays the price on that whole deal.

Absolutely.

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You know, I think that after, you know, this near death experience of this new lease on life, it's. It's all about helping people. And I just want to have an impact on everybody I touch going forward because I don't know how long I'm gonna be here. I know everyone can say that we all get in a wreck on the way home, and that's true. But when you, when you think about it for three years and deathbed and you, you kind of live a little different. And I don't really even consider these other roofers my competition or the regular good guys that are just trying to put an honest living together and make a difference. And, and if I have had some success, I just want to share that so to make their lives, you know, so they can do.

You're on a bit of a mission now. Hey, man. Right. I could have been gone. Now I'm not gone. There's something bigger and more important for me to be doing. And I notice that about you and one of your initiatives and I want. I know I'm going to get this wrong, but it has something to do with cars. Am I correct?

So, so for 20 years, I'm the vice president of Cars for Heroes and we give 300 cars away a year to.

That's like one a week. That's one a day almost.

Yeah, that's, that's a. Yeah. It's, it's, it's a lot and it's. And it's so veterans and first responders and then we do a Cars for Christmas where we give cars to just everybody in the community that needs cars. Not everybody. About 15 to 20 cars on Christmas. And they're full of food and full of toys for the kids because these stories are a mother who can't get her child to chemo treatments. And so you're being able to give a car like that, they're just. These stories are tearjerkers. And to be able to impact that, it just gives you goosebumps. And I've been hosting it at Shamrock lately. And so that my, my other project managers, the people that work with Shamrock can be the ones to Give. And when they're able to pass the keys and help, it just, it changes them and you can see it. And they want to keep giving and helping. And so, so we did the cars. We did the cars thing@carsforheroes.org and then we, and then I'm the chairman for the American Heart association and this is the hundred year. So it's the Centennial Heart Ball. And so what we, what we're doing is something really cool for the 100 year. And let me, let me explain this. So when I bought my building Dimensional Innovations are art place in town and they're the ones that just did the Raider Stadium. They're really nice. Well, they try to tell me. Well, they, they told me about this project, this Evil Knievel, this timeline where they. You can, you can see him where he jumped the Grand Canyon this time and you can push a button and you can see his broken bones. And so it's super interact active. Right? So I come up with this idea.

I remember watching that live.

So they want, they wanted to do this for my office from 1977, since the time to a timeline around the office. I was like, no, not right now. And I, and, and I said later. But now we got the Hundred Years Centennial for American Heart Association. So we're going to do from 1923 what kind of medicine and heart. You know, they had then to, you know what it was like in the 1920s, the roaring twenties. How in the thirties. How did. Aha. Like in the thirties, forties and so on to the hundred years. And then. So this idea is now going to 130 markets nationwide. And then so they. And you're walking through the ball. You can actually go through this entire experience of the 100 years of research and technology that it created and helped science along the way.

That's pretty cool. Is that, is that a fundraiser? Is that what that's going to be association?

Yes, it is the fundraiser and that's the heartball that basically celebrates the end of the year for the amount of money they've raised. And then each 130 city has. Has their own, you know, ball baseball on this. And so that program. Well, the timeline to the entryway to the ball, something that I came up with, Tucker Trotter came up with together. So pretty cool.

Yeah, that's pretty neat. I don't know if I can make it to the ball, but if there's any way to donate or help or do any of that kind of stuff, let me know. Give me a link. We'll Put the link in the show notes here, if there is such a thing, and we will do what we can to, like. Heart disease is one of the biggest killers in America, and it has so many different reasons. I mean, yours is obviously an anomaly. That's not something that you hear very often. Like, yeah, I breathed some stuff in and it kind of killed my heart. Yeah, that's not when you hear all the time. But there is, you know, heart disease, there's chronic, there's acute, there's cholesterol. There's all these things that lead to it because of the lifestyles we lead, the things we eat, the things we drink, this all that kind of stuff.

Right, right.

And the lack of exercise, the. The world that we live in almost forces it. Like, sometimes we have to be behind a desk a lot to get our job done. And so when do we fit that stuff in? So if there's a way to help, send me a link and we'll. We'll. We'll step up a little bit and we'll see if we can get others to do so.

I will, definitely.

So is it chairman of, like, the Kansas City City or like, chairman of the whole thing?

It's chairman of the Kansas City.

That's cool, man. Like, you need another thing to do.

I tell you that the philanthropy part of it and given is. I really. I enjoy it, but it's.

It can be.

It can be an addictive thing too. Right. Like, you know, the next thing, the Boy Scouts are coming over, I'm helping them. The next thing you know, you know, someone else has come over, I'm helping them, and I'm like, whoa, I've only got so much time, and I gotta focus. Those are all nonprofits. And what I focus on is. That's what I get. So I'm like, look, I've gotta focus on the business and I can help financially, you know, instead of so much time, because that's one thing that I'm working, you know, the balance.

Well, it's an incredible story. It really is, because of what you went through, and you're still, like, doing it. And even in a more impactful way, like, there's more to it now. There's more weight, I guess, or gravitas. Like, yes, it feels different for you. I would assume it does.

And it just keeps. It gets better. The message becomes more on point. As I've been talking to folks, and I'm getting to speak at the best success. And talking with Jill, and they're like, well, I tell my stories like oh my gosh. Which part of that do you want to talk about? I'll be happy. Because she's like, well, you only got 30 minutes. So, you know, fine tuning that is one thing and sharing the message, but what it also does is it gravitates more people with the same mission and together it's even becoming more powerful. And it's. You're really meeting some like minded folks that can really make change.

Well, excuse, excuse the pun, but you've really got a heart for it. You do. Thank you. Thank you. It's pretty awesome. And the reason I wanted to have you on is I wanted other contractors to see that. They've got obstacles too. Right? We all do. We all got whatever crap going on in our world, but that was a pretty big obstacle and you were able to overcome it, come out on top. I'm sure there's still things you got to do and deal with, but it's turned out okay. A lot of it is just because of that passion, this drive. There's a lot of experience that went into. You had to do these other things to get to this thing, but to stick with it. Right? That's kind of the idea. No matter what the obstacles are.

It is. You know, you, you only, you only fail when you quit. And it was that perseverance that kept through this because, you know, there's a lot of times I did, you know, you really do feel like quitting, but it's just not an option. And you know, my kids needed me, they still need me. And I'm the patriarch of the family now.

And.

Not only my family, but employing 450 people, when you're talking about all the crews you're dealing with, all your project managers and all the support staff, and then you take it even further and you think about from the supplier level, all the people that are employed because you're buying so much material from them, and then you start thinking about how many people you're impacting and that's a lot of people. And you want to. I want to continue to impact.

That's what it is. You understand the responsibility now, right? You understand the responsibility where maybe before it wasn't quite as clear. You knew it was there, but it wasn't like there.

Right, Right.

Man, that's. That's such a cool story, Garen. It is. I have not forgotten that day. I will never forget that day. Like you were pale. I was like, oh my God, this guy. I feel like you're going to pass out any second. And you were like, Sweating. And it was like, it was not like, why are you here? Go home. I got this. We can take care of it. And then the hailstorm hits and it was craziness.

I was wanting to meet you so bad. That's what had you in there and everything.

We still got that picture? We still got that picture on the wall?

Yes. That's a great one. Another one when you come back out.

Well, hey, anytime, man. You get me out and we'll, we'll, we'll go do it. I was just through there a week and a half ago, came through Kansas City, but I was, I was trucking. I was like, I gotta make it home in two days. But next time through, I'll stop, we'll check in, and if we want to do some stuff together, it'd be an honor to help out however I can. Any words of advice? I don't usually do this, but what I would like you to do is say, hey, this is the one most important thing that you need to remember if you are planning to go from little and small to something big. What's the one thing?

The one thing?

I got 20 going through your head right now.

Yeah, the, you know, from, from going to small to big. Prioritization of time. Focusing. The highest, most profitable and maybe not even profitable at that time. That's beneficial. Beneficial. Yes, beneficial. And that means focusing all your time on that. And that means as you get, grow and you need to delegate, how can you then either be more efficient with your time or increase your productivity by maybe hiring assistant or, you know, technology, you know, and that way. And then that person, maybe it's one assistant. The next thing you know, you got two project managers, three. And then, and then you make. Always make sure you're in a CRM and tracking everything, all your data, because you can mix it.

That's the other thing about you. Yeah, you're a numbers guy. You're really data driven, data oriented. Why do you think that's so important? Because I've coached for a long time now. I've seen a lot of companies make pretty good money without being like data focused. Now qualify that. They blow a lot of money too. But why, why, why is that such an important part?

Well, because then you can get stats and you can start understanding what is actually your. Your most profitable thing. And then you can also understand stats if you start to slip. Why, why aren't I doing, you know, you know, well anymore? Well, you need to make some adjustments. You need to be able to pivot. And, and if you don't know. You're not tracking your. Your data, your matrixes, then you're not going to know how to improve or how to better improve. You're really just guessing. Throwing darts at a board.

Yeah. You start sliding back and you can't identify where you're. Like, what of the 20th, eight things that we have to do is the one that went, hey, haywire. Right. Like, okay, so maybe it's in. Our sales are down. But is it sales? Could it be our culture that's affecting it? Could it. Like, there's a million other things it could actually cost? Are we not getting the right amount of leads? Leads change. Do the algorithms change on our technology? Like, there's a million different things. If you don't have that data, you're just shooting for the hill. I hope I got it right.

Yeah.

And most of the time, we're off on that. So that is some good, sage advice. Garen, it's been a pleasure having you on.

Thank you.

You are. You are one of those guys in the industry, and I don't say this lightly out of respect for you. This is a hard industry to find that in sometimes, and you definitely fit that mold, and I appreciate what you're doing.

Well, thank you, Jim. I really. I appreciate that more than you know, and I carry that with high esteem, and I try to every day put my next foot forward to lead that way for all the people, for all the people on the team and lead an industry, because I think there needs to be more leaders in this industry, for sure.

Yeah. More leaders that do it right. There's lots of leaders, but there needs to be more that just. Okay. The consumer is really what this is all about. In the end, it's not necessarily, how much money can I put in my bank account? And then the people that work for me are more important than that, too. So the money is a byproduct of doing it right. I just am a firm believer in that and sustaining it over time. You can do it wrong and make money for a little while, but it's going to catch up with you at some point.

Not you can't sustain it. You go and ring the bell, and then it's gone. The only way to stay at the top and ring the bell is to have everybody else up there with you.

Yep. That's awesome. All right. Hey, Garen, I'm gonna. I'm gonna put you back in the green room for a minute. Close out. Can you hold on for a second afterwards? Sure, sure. All right, Awesome. I really appreciate you being here. Thank you. If guys wanted to reach out to you, is that okay?

Absolutely. Sure. They can reach out to me at Garen Arms. Garen. GarenRock roofer.com or text me at 913-991-8858.

Wow. He came out with a phone number. Okay, guys, that didn't stay for the end. They barely messed up right there. And I have one suggestion for you. You need to change your logo to four leafs.

Yes.

You are one lucky man. There is no doubt about it. Yes, you are one lucky man. There is no doubt about it. Is it four? Is it?

Yeah.

Oh, yeah. Okay. Well, you know, it's the double leaf.

It does look like three. Yeah.

You gotta, like, rub that thing there.

Honestly.

Yeah, I gotta rub that thing all the time. Yeah. No, very cool, man. Very cool. Thanks for being here. And we'll in the future find out how. Is it four? Is it?

Yeah.

Oh, yeah. Okay. Well, you know that it's the double. Things are going.

Yes, I'd love to.

All right. Awesome.

All right. Thank you.

All right, everybody. That was Garen Armstrong with Shamrock Roofing. What a story. I mean, seriously, I think a lot of people in the same situation would probably have given in, given up, but there is also this side of us that when it really gets bad, we fight harder. And that's nothing that we can't say about Garen. A guy fought and fought really hard, not just for recovering from a new heart, but fought for his business, fought for his people, and he's out there fighting for lots of folks and having a huge impact. So I'm super happy to have him on the show. If you're looking to grow your business, you're trying to get out of the rut that you're in. You're trying to break through a ceiling. You're tired of chasing your tail and making the same mistakes over and over and never get anywhere. And you really do want to get some control of your business so you can grow it and get to that lifestyle that you want and impact people the way you want. Reach out to us. There'll be a link in the show notes on this for our contractor assessment. Just click that link, take that assessment, and we'll do a free coaching call with you. A real coaching call, not a sales pitch. We're going to coach you based off of that assessment on the two or three things that you could do right away that would improve your business. If you like coaching and want to work with us, great. That's awesome. We'd love to have you, but if you don't, at least we served you well that day and we made the industry a little bit better that day. And hopefully we've had an impact on you in a positive way. Thanks for being here on Contractor Radio. We'll see you on our next episode.