Nail the Perfect Hire Every Time In Your Contracting Business

All right.

Recruiting, hiring, and onboarding. It's a mouthful just to even say, I'm sure we got more than enough to talk about when it comes to those things. So first off, we couple all these. These three things together. Recruiting, hiring, and onboarding. Why do we put all of these just in one one subject? Why not split these up into three separate videos?

First off, you have to realize what you've done before this. That's kind of the key part of this, is you've done a lot to do this correctly. Most people put this thing way early. They're starting to recruit, hire, and onboard people right away without having all of the components of their business in a fashion that makes recruiting, hiring, and onboarding successful. Which is why we usually old coach like, yeah, we got to have a few people to generate some revenue and stuff like that. But don't start to really scale your business until you have the tools for them. We couple them together because they truly go together. We're going to recruit people. So we're applying some of our marketing knowledge that we've learned, because that's what recruiting is, is marketing. We're going to hire people, which is much of what we've learned in our sales side of things. We always talk about that recruiting is marketing, hiring is sales. Then onboarding is the training, like bringing somebody in. So we've set these processes up. Now what does that strategy look like? To bring on the right talent at the right time and the right position on the bus for us to be successful. So that's why we lump them together to build a strategy around what the hiring process looks like, what the marketing for that hiring process looks like, and then how to onboard them in a way that makes it completely unique and it seems to be something more than just a job.

Fair enough. So, Nathan, when we talk about recruiting specifically, how are we, like, how are you as the business owner, attracting the right people to put in a job application to get to the point of the interview process?

So you talked about the concept of.

A brand when we.

At one point, when we talked about marketing. Your company's culture can also be branded. What is it about us that makes us unique? Who are the kind of people that we want to attract? Well, the thing that decides what kind of people you want to attract is the culture that you have, because you can have lots of people who lots of different cultures are attractive to, and then the skill set is simply teaching them how to do the things that you want them to do. So ultimately, looking at your culture and saying, who are the kinds of people that we want. And then building a hiring brand that matches up and would be attractive to that kind of person. Some people are really adrenaline junkies, and they like doing adventurous stuff and they like being a part of a high energy go, go, go group of people. Some people are a little more laid back. They like the idea of going to an office where people bring their dogs.

Right.

But ultimately, the purpose being that who we are and who we want to be is what we build the brand around, and then we put that brand out into the world. Some people have a separate website. They might even have a separate social media presence just to put out into the world what it looks like to work at this company. And so that that gets into different algorithms, it gets into different searches, because we're not trying to attract people who need our services. We're trying to attract people who want to join our team. So, first of all, starting with your culture, who are we? What are the things that we do? And then begin to understand a brand around that thing and then begin to put that out into the world. So people see it and they go, man, that seems like a really cool place.

So just.

I chuckle a little bit, not because of what you said earlier, but because I've heard this before. It's like, you know, core. Core words, core values. Right. Like we're honest or trustworthy or something to that extent. We want honest people. I don't think anybody's going to admit that they're a dishonest person. Right. So when we're building something like that in there, let's say we get these job applications and people are coming in and we're having a conversation and we're in the interview process. And Jim, maybe you can answer this first. How are we determining, like, when we're sitting there having a conversation with them, that you are a fit for this company and this culture?

We're jumping ahead a little bit in that.

Okay, well then go back and answer more questions.

Well, there's multiple different aspects to this. So the recruiting portion is attracting people to your company's brand and trying to be a part of your team. Just like when you're selling a product, you want the people who are attracted to your product to respond to your marketing.

Okay.

The next component of that is also. Well, I guess there's two different strategies here too, that we should probably talk about. You have a recruiting and hiring brand.

Okay.

That you put out there. Most people actually don't do that. Most people don't actually put something out into the world that other people would see and say, I want to be a part of that.

Except for randomly. Well, there's, hey, we're hiring this position, that type of thing.

Here's our company Christmas party photos.

That's exactly correct. Some people are significantly more. More diligent about it.

It's not consistent, planned or strategy oriented.

So then you've got kind of the two different philosophies of the ways that you would go about it. So once again, thinking about marketing and sales, you have organic generation of leads. You have diligent, specific generation of leads that you're trying to accomplish. Same thing can happen with recruiting. You can diligently be out there putting something out that attracts people to want to. They're like a, like a warm lead coming in as somebody wants to get hired.

I would relate it to like paid digital. Like I have ZipRecruiter. I have indeed, indeed those type of things. I have maybe even paid ads on like Facebook and LinkedIn and some of that kind of stuff that I have this paid aspect to what I do. And then there's the organic aspect of what I do. And then there's the person to person recruiting, like people within you.

What's the hardcore recruiter?

Right, right.

So then you've got, you know, if you're really wanting to recruit hard, then there are people you can outsource that to who are really good at getting that message out, getting it out across multiple platforms. Because we're trying, we're not trying to find one or two people. We're trying to find a lot of different people in a lot of different places in a lot of different ways. Odds are just like, there's somebody better than you at marketing, there's probably somebody out there better than you at recruiting in a super specific, targeted way. And then you have the one on one. It's almost like door knocking. You're at a restaurant, you are getting your car washed, you're shopping for a new truck, and you're just meeting people consistently who you identify and go, that person's interesting and that person might fit the team. But this is nuanced because how do you know if you're talking to somebody that this is somebody. I might ask more questions to see if maybe they're interested. So then you come all the way back to the prep work that you need to do before you even start getting into recruiting, hiring and onboarding. So I just laid out kind of three different methodologies. First of all, you need to understand who your company's culture and who you are and who we're looking for that fits into it. Then we need to figure out how many people we're trying to hire and in what time frame and whether or not we want to make that something we do in house or we want to outsource that. Then you have the venues and the channels through which you send out the message that you're looking for people.

And don't forget about one of those channels being you, which you're always in recruiting mode. And your team, if your team is culturally aligned with you, it is very likely that they know other people just like them. Because as you said way back in culture, birds of a feather flock together. And so the core group of friends that one of your better salespeople have might be somebody that's ideal for you. The core group of friends that one of your administrators has might be a good person for you. And it might not necessarily be an administrator. That administrator might know somebody that fits in sales or fits in production. We've got to communicate that well to our team. I think we really need to incentivize our team around that too. That by bringing somebody in, there is a reward for doing that. So it becomes more top of mind and there's some incentive behind doing it.

Yeah, I know one of the companies, a good buddy of mine owns it. It's out in Raleigh, North Carolina. If they go, if his guys are outdoor knocking and they see another sales associates like card in the door, they take a picture of it and send it to the owner so the owner can get in contact with them because they are a primarily door knocking company and they want killers when it comes to that. That's how they're building their company. So and if they call, if you send that and then they hire that person, he will write you a 200 or give you $250 in cash.

We recruited, when we knocked the door, we would start to see that we had a relationship, we liked them, there was cultural fit and we learned about them. We were in relationship. They weren't happy with their job, but they seemed to have the skills and talents that we were looking for because we taught our guys about the skills and talents that we were looking for in the ideal fit for us. And so they would actually recruit homeowners, sometimes people that we would sell to.

So now I go back to my question. Now that you've covered everything else, it's obvious I don't coach this. You're like, great question. It sucked. So let me tell you everything that has to happen before you get to it. Well, maybe it didn't suck, but the timing of it sucked.

Well, but there's, there's just. There's a lot that goes into making this happen correctly.

Yeah.

And there's also pluses and minuses to the different ways that you go about it. So, for example, a recruiter is generally going to be very good at finding people who have probably the attributes and the skills that you're looking for, but they're not as plugged in and as personally involved in the culture of your business. Which means that when they find somebody, they'll probably find somebody who can do the job. But it's going to be hard for them to find somebody that they know fits in with your company unless they.

Do a really strong interview with you to understand your culture so that they can hire. And we know a couple of companies like that that do that.

Well, exactly.

Correct.

So before we really start putting that out there, we want to get some of our ducks in a row. And so we're trying to attract the right person.

Okay.

We need to figure out who that right person is. So for sake, for instance, and what they do. Yes. So, like, what position are we trying to hire for?

Is it a full blown sales guy?

Yeah, so.

Or is it a.

Let's go sales guy. I'm trying to hire a sales guy. Right. Because I think a lot of our audience would.

Well, let's get some clarity on that. Is it a full blown sales guy that takes it from A to Z? Because that's the process I've designed, the culture I want, how I want to interact with clients. Or have I staged the process out and I have a canvasser, I have a inspector and introducer, an estimate, like those type of things. Because you're going to have different skills and talents that apply to each one of those things. And then if I'm trying to cover the whole gamut, this guy's going to have to have a higher skill set and a higher level of talent to be able to cover all those things.

So I run a roofing company. Right. I'm going to use my buddy's company as an example because I know how he's got it set up pretty well. So I need you out there door knocking, I need you doing inspections, I need you getting contingency signed, and I need you showing up to adjuster appointments and just checking in with the customer the day of the build. That's all I need you to do.

So I'm gonna go back to you and say, do you believe there's a person that can be an expert at each one of those things?

Probably, yeah.

I would call that person a purple unicorn, because you're right, they do exist. But a person that's really great at generating leads and closing deals and that sales type of thing might be terrible at documentation and inspection.

That's typically where you see the biggest problems.

And I would challenge in your buddy's organization, like, do those jobs get turned in cleanly? Can production run with them smoothly? Does he hold them accountable? Because he's got that accountability measures.

He's told me before, the biggest problem he has is the guy's just taking blessed photos. Yeah, that's the biggest problem that he has. He goes, dude, they're killers at door knocking, they're killers at closing deals, and they're killers at getting contingency signed. But when it comes to the inspection, they suck at taking. It's like I can't get them to take the right amount of photos because.

It'S a different level of skill and a different level of talent that that person is normally a farmer. They're detail oriented and salespeople inherently just aren't that. They're.

I can produce the lead and close the deal, but don't ask me to document a dag on thing.

So. So how would I solve that? I would build that into my process and say, okay, sales guy, you don't like doing that. We know you're not great at it. So we're going to put you in position to succeed and you're going to have the ability to do more because we're going to take some time off of you, which will affect your commission, but there's going to be somebody that does it for you.

So I know we're getting slightly off topic here, but just my mind going here. If the sales guy doesn't have to do the inspection and take the photo, then who exactly what are we replacing inside of that?

It could be whatever name you documentation specialist, a certified inspector. It could be any of a number of different names that perform that function. But I'd have to have already identified that in my process. It's part of my culture that that person is involved. People are aware of what the sales process is and what the reward for it is. And if they don't handle the whole sales process and they only handle a portion of it, their commissions are affected by that. Whether I charge a certain amount per inspection that goes out or I reduce the level of commissions, I only have so much pie to give away for the full sales process. So you got to really consider those things. It's actually one of the things we do in our coaching is we do the stages of the sales process. We've identified the attributes or talents, you can use either one of those words for that and the skills that it takes to do those things. And so we go, okay, for a canvasser, what are the attributes and skills that somebody should need? For an inspector, what are the attributes and skills for a person giving presentations for a person, meeting an adjuster for a person. And this can vary by contractor. You may not meet adjusters, so you don't even include that in your sages. But for a person closing deals, what are the attributes or talents and skills that that person needs to be able to do that? And what you start to realize is that each one of those functions has different talents and skills that are ideal for it. Now whenever you look at them, you go, okay, as a whole, I have to give up a little bit if I'm going to have a salesperson cover the whole thing. And so I know what I'm getting into prior to ever recruiting that, hey, we might have some struggles on the documentation side of things because that's not what they're great at. We might have some struggles on meeting an adjuster because that's not what they're great at. We might have some struggles on follow up because that's not what they don't want to do that. And so I'm still willing to do that if I'm small. But as I scale my business, I'm going to start to cut it down to what you're great at. Put them in the right.

Okay. Beautiful part is follow ups. There's computers that can do that for you.

Yeah, to a certain extent. To a certain extent, yeah. I think there's probably, as my company grows though, having that person on the phone. Hey, Mrs. Jones, my name's Sally. Just wanted to follow up with you. There's a certain level of value to that that far outweighs the cost of it. You look at the ROI on anything that you did.

Yeah, of course.

So what we're trying to do is we're trying to eliminate the emotion from hiring.

Yep.

We want to be able to hire people based on numbers because emotions tricky when we like somebody or when we don't like somebody or when we had a really great moment or we felt like we had a connection. Those things are emotionally driven and they're fleeting. And you got to remember that when somebody either wants that job or you Want them to get that job. It's like being on a first date. Everybody's on their best behavior.

Okay?

Everybody can act sane for an hour.

Everybody can act sane for an hour. And so what we want to do is we want to eliminate the emotion. And I've heard clients say that all the time. I just. I hire emotionally. Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't. But I would like to remove the emotion part of it to become more consistent. In order to become more consistent, we need to be able to create.

As.

Objective a way of analyzing somebody as possible to remove that emotion. And so creating the caricature of the person that we want for the position we're hiring is step one. Just like when you create the ideal customer, what's the ideal customer? And how do I get ahold of that person? When I create the ideal salesperson or the ideal admin, I'm looking for a certain set of attributes or innate components that tells me that they're capable of doing this job. And then I want to take a look at their skill set. How developed is it or undeveloped is their skill set, which is going to tell me how long it's going to take for me to get them being proficient or successful at what they do. And then I can create. Well, then I have awareness. Then I have awareness that I'm looking for somebody who's outgoing, somebody who has smiles, easy, somebody who can make me.

Laugh, somebody humble and smart, somebody who.

Engages other people, somebody who. For whatever position, okay, I know now kind of what I'm looking for, which puts my antenna up for finding that person. So now when I meet somebody and they are, maybe they're kind of quiet, maybe they're a little reserved. Okay, that person's probably not what I'm looking for in this position. Versus I met this person after I cracked that nut a little bit, we had a good conversation. Maybe I should hire them. Versus no, no, no. I already know. This person needs to be engaging from the jump. So we got to identify that thing so that the antenna go up and we know what we're looking for. That'll make it easier for us to find that person. Whether we're using a recruiter, whether somebody's calling our office, or whether I'm sitting at lunch talking to an amazing waitress who did today, and she was fantastic.

And it helps you create the ad, too. The ad speaks to that outgoing person, that person that likes challenge. These things that you've identified that you want from a talent set and a.

Skill set and this stuff will come in handy later. So it isn't just about finding that person. So as we go down the road of recruiting, hiring, and onboarding, having that caricature developed and identifying that person, these things, we're going to talk about this as we move through trying to build a process around it.

What's great about that identification, what you're doing is you're building an avatar. Right. A target that you're after. So it helps the marketing person. Maybe it's internal. In your company, they do the marketing for your business, but now they can actually market for new recruits and new talent. Or if you're doing a third party, you can give them specifically what you're looking for. And ads can be built specifically to that. So when you're putting people into the funnel, your quality of lead goes up. You're creating better quality of leads, so you're not wasting as much time with people that might not be a great fit for your business. Because hiring is expensive, recruiting is expensive. Like we said before, you're into 50, 60, $70,000 to just hire one person. I want to reduce that cost as much as I can. And a lot of that comes in the time that it takes to just bring somebody into the building and talk to them the first time. I don't know how many times people will set up an appointment with a prospective recruit and they don't even show up. Everybody just wasted time. Or they do show up and they just suck because they're not a good fit. And it didn't fit what I was looking for.

If you saw a really good potential salary on an ad and they're like, I'll just respond to this ad.

Make $100,000 a year.

Yeah. They just pick up the phone and call regardless of whether or not they.

Fit, or they're checking a box that they have to do certain number of interviews to keep their. Whatever payment rolling.

Yeah.

And so we've got to do a great job of eliminating all that stuff. Stuff. So that that hour that we spend is a quality hour.

100%. So I know you said something, I think it was yesterday, that 50 to $60,000 to bring the right person on and $200,000 to keep the wrong person for too long.

Yeah, 100%.

And I think that was something that really stood out to me yesterday when you said that, because.

Well, think about the 200,000. Yeah. Think about the $200,000 to keep the wrong person on. Yeah. I have a person sitting in a seat that I could have had the right person in that would have generated more revenue, been more effective in administration, been able to process more jobs in production, actually meet the criteria and standards that we've set for our business. But I'm too kind when I would argue that you're too unloving to let that person move on to where they would do better. But even better than that, if I've identified my avatar or my target, who I'm after, I don't make that hire in the first place. I do a great job of number one, qualifying them from a marketing funnel perspective. And then once they're in the funnel, it's not over yet. I'm probably going to apply some kind of assessment. We can do those internally and build our own little assessments through a few questions. We could use a third party company that builds great assessments and that type of stuff to identify the skills and talents that we're looking for. And it creates resistance. That's a great point out, Nathan. Like it creates this barrier of entry that if somebody's not really interested, they're not going to take that next step. If they can't do that, why in the world would I want them to come in? Because I got to train them too. Like that's going to be a bigger barrier.

I got a company that told me one time that they require anybody before they come in for their first interview. They have to do a disc assessment. And it has nothing to do with figuring out who they are as a person.

Just will they do the work?

Will they take the 15 to 20 minutes to actually go through it and do it? And that's how they start by weeding people out is just do a simple disc assessment. And then if they hire them, they have that information that is sitting there and now they know what type of person they are. And it also tells them this is our strengths, this is our weaknesses. So are they fitting the role that we need them in? So, but I thought that was genius.

Well, imagine sending somebody a link and saying, hey, click on this link and fill this thing out and they won't do it. Imagine what it's like to try and ask them to fill out a report or put information in a spreadsheet or log into a CRM or please send an email or call somebody back they can't even click on. So I've had people say that just having some assessment component before an interview has eliminated as many as 70% of the people who responded to their ad.

That wasted their time.

That would have wasted their time had they interviewed all of them.

One of the Beautiful ones. I like is first off, whenever we're in this recruiting phase, we can't be in this place of desperation of saying, oh you're going to be a hundred thousand dollar sales rep and this is the greatest thing in the world. Yeah, you're hired. Can you fog a mirror? That type of thing. We need to be more challenging. We're only going to hire the best of the best. We're looking for two or three of the best possible candidates for who we are. So you set this challenge out there that eliminates half the people out there right now that just don't like challenge. But those people that are really predicated for this high performing team that you're creating, go man, I'm up for that. I can get that job. That's who we want. Those people that are a bit hungry for a bit of challenge in their life. So this idea of creating a barrier, one of the best I've seen is alright, awesome. Thanks for inquiring about our position. This is a little bit. They sent them a little dossier about what the job is and what it does. Now send us an email back telling us why you would be a perfect fit for these two or three elite positions on our high performing team. Boy, that doesn't get a lot of emails back but the ones that come back, boy, they are selling them. They are selling them on why they should be a part of that company. It's a beautiful way to set a barrier to this challenging high performing team that you're creating. So you've taken it from interest to assessment, qualification and you've started to create a funnel that's a little bit tighter. And now we get to this point of an interview, we're considering an interview and I strongly suggest again, let's try not to waste time if we can avoid it. I really like the idea of a video interview. First getting that person on a video interview because in a quick bit of time, because we haven't ever spoken to this person yet. Right. In most cases, if they were responding to some type of marketing that we're putting out other than direct face to face recruiting of somebody, we have not interacted with them yet. By getting them on a video to have a short conversation to see where they're at on that challenge and outgoingness and those things that we have identified as the attributes of somebody that we want, we're going to be able to tell that pretty quickly from that and we can reduce what might have been an hour of sitting together down to 10 or 15 minutes of going, hey, man, I don't think this is a good fit. We're thinking that. So we're able to shorten that call up. But if they seem like a good fit, then we can go ahead and set that call. And a lot of times, the bigger the company grows, you can have that first interview with an HR person or third party interviewer, and then they'll come in for that final interview with a sales manager, owner, those type of things.

Fair enough. So I know we're talking about barriers and being very careful who we bring into our culture, right? Like, that's a big deal when we talk about this. And I will tell you that not only does Jim coach this, but he lives this. Because when we were thinking about me coming on board to do coaching, it was a three month long process of, is Tommy the right fit for the company?

We're still not sure. Still.

Look, we're a year and a half in and there's still questions, but. And I don't mean any disrespect by this, Nathan, when I say what I'm fixing to say, but for me, you told me, Jim, from the beginning, you don't have to sell me that you know what you're doing. You're gonna have to talk with Nathan. So Nathan was my, with all due respect, again, the biggest barrier between me working with Contractor Coach Pro and not working with Contractor Coach Pro. And I thought it was funny, our first conversation, you thought I was trying to do the marketing for Contractor Coach Pro. That's the way it was perceived. And So, I mean, 30 minutes of just bombardment of why marketers suck, just how terrible we are as people and human beings and that we like to kick puppies. Right? Like, it was just awful. And then as he's kicking a puppy. As he's kicking a puppy, Right. No, I'm just kidding.

But.

And then, like, I was just like, okay, I'm just gonna let him get all this out of his system. And then we had a conversation. And you realized that I didn't want to do the actual marketing. I wanted to coach the marketing while assisting where I could. And even then, it was still a couple more weeks of me and Nathan talking, me and Jim talking, because you two were very careful of him, who you brought within this culture of Contractor Coach Pro. And me and Alex, my wife, we talked about it. I was like, this is the longest interview process I've ever been through in my life. I was like, I just need an answer.

Well, there's one thing, and this is advice to all People who ever own a business, your culture is the thing you protect more than anything else. You let the wrong person into your door. They can subvert a culture a hundred times faster than you can build one. It's like letting Covid into your building. It could shut it down if you don't watch it because it becomes very hard and they get in, they subvert your culture, get a following, and then they leave and take a bunch of people with them. You have to really protect that. This new person coming into our world is on board for what it is that we're about, why we do it, and how we behave out there in the world. So I think we've kind of covered the recruiting part. Like, we've got them now to the part of interview. So we just went from marketing and creating a qualified appointment to closing the deal. Right. Like, and that's now becoming our job is because this person is interested in buying something from us. They're interested in buying a career from our company. And my job is to do a solution selling methodology to solve their problems that they may be looking for in their life. I think you need to really have that concept down in your hiring process that you're looking for, at it that way because then that kind of comes back to that leadership thing. I've got to engage them in the vision of our business and not just where we're going as a company or even the money they can make that could change their life, but the skills that they could get if they become involved in our company, how that will propel them for the rest of their lives, whether they're with us or not. We'd love them to be on our bus forever if they're great. But if they decide to move on, it's because they've gained some skills, gained some growth in our organization that they would not be able to get anywhere else. Then we have to follow up with it. But that's the sales pitch in a nutshell of what we've got to get accomplished when we're talking with somebody. You want to expand on that, Nathan? Sure.

At every point along the way, as much as you possibly can, you want to score your interactions with this person. Now, I realize that scoring is subjective, but at least you're putting a number down rather than having to remember or recall an emotion.

And you're comparing it to people you've spoken to before.

So you have to think, okay, here. This is how I maybe scored their assessment compared to what I'm looking for. Ideally, if ideal perfect is 100 so far. This person scored on the. If they filled the assessment out perfectly, it was a hundred. This person's maybe a seven or maybe they're an eight. Okay, not bad, right?

Or 70 or 80.

If it's 170 or 80, depending on how. Yeah, whatever number structure you. They're a blue versus a green. But you also have the component of first impressions, like a first conversation we have over the phone. Maybe if they're sending us an email. How does their email look when they communicate to us? They do the video interview. Scoring them on the things we're looking for could be a 1 to 5, could be a 1 to 10, but we have an ideal number we're looking for. And then ranking them in that so that we can remove that emotion. Also making sure that we score them within a period of time that we can remember what happened. But be careful not to score them too soon after that interaction, because you want to think about it. So if you're thinking, I don't have time to do that, then you don't have time to hire somebody correctly. If you just. If you just bang through interviews and you don't take the time to either prepare for the interview or to prepare for that interaction and then take some time to think about it after, then you are only increasing your likelihood of making a poor hire, which is going.

To cost you $50,000 at least, or maybe 250.

If you think you don't have time to do this right now, wait till you do the wrong person and then spend God knows how many hours and how much money having hired the wrong person. And you're trying to avoid that. So let's stay on that track. We want to make sure that we're scoring this person as we interact with them and as they make their way through our process. So as we get to an interview, there's some.

Some.

There's. There's a lot of books on this. There's a lot of different books. There's a lot of different ideas and mentalities around this thing. Once again, the people who love, contractor, coach, pro, and pursue working with us and who we pursue to work with. We generally have a feeling about how we would do this. If you don't agree with it, that's cool. We understand there's lots of different ways to go about it. From our perspective, we want to create as disarming and as comfortable of a scenario as we possibly can because interviews are wonky. There's a few weirdos out there who don't mind doing interviews and Actually enjoy them.

Okay.

I actually enjoy that process because I like talking to people. I like answering questions. I like thinking about what. What people are looking for and then. And then being able to answer them honestly with what I think about their question or my own experience. For most people, interviews are nerve wracking. Most people do not enjoy that. For this weirdo over here, most people do not enjoy being interviewed. They feel like they're getting grilled, they feel like they're on the hot seat, and they feel like they're taking a risk and potentially making you part of their career path. So there's pressure on it. So we want to. We want to remove that as much as we can. Okay. So this needs to happen in a comfortable place. So be careful about the height of where you sit. Compared to somebody sitting behind a big giant desk with all of your stuff, having a clipboard there with all of your questions. And then when somebody says something, they go, hmm. Then write that down. Meanwhile, the person's going, what did you.

Yeah, I just became very pressure packed.

Was that good? Is that okay? You know, so that means practice on your part because you need to know and have in your mind where you want to go, what you want to ask, and how you want to do this without having to have a script next to you. So guess what? If you're going to recruit, hire, and onboard people, you're going to interview people, you should probably try practicing with some people to develop that skill.

So what are some good questions? Just for advice, right? What would be some good questions to ask in an interview? Because I can think of about 20 that I hated being asked.

Let's talk about the type of question.

Yeah, so that's fine. Let's talk about the type of questions. But I do think that would be something our audience would appreciate getting that information and understand it's customized to each individual company because everybody's culture is different and so on and so forth. But there's got to be some general ones that are just. That everybody could use.

So let's talk about what we've done. We've marketed, created interested party that was qualified, showed up for an appointment. I'm in a sales process right now, and I've shared with them our vision, how being a part of that vision is going to benefit them. I've investigated a little bit about what they want out of life, and I'm going to start asking some questions, much like I would in the sales process. But what I don't want to do is I don't want to Ask leading questions is one of those things I see people do and all awful lot in an interview. Like the worst one you could ever ask in an interview is, are you a hard worker? Oh, yeah, I'm a hard worker.

Tell me a story about when you had to work really hard to get something you wanted.

Yeah, that's a much better question. That's actually a statement. Tell me about something that you've had to work really hard for and what that experience felt like for you. Now it's more of a, oh, let me think about that for a second. Most times they will be really short. Their answer is going to be really short. And you can follow that up with, well, how did that make you feel? What did you like about it? Why was that important to you? And what you're digging for is you're digging for a little bit of a story. You're trying to get them to the point where they tell you more. And when they start to tell you more, you're listening with a filter. Filter. Your filter is listening for the skills and the talents that you're looking for. There's a great book about this. I don't know if you're going to mention it or not, but there's a great book out there. It's called the Perfect Salesforce. It's by a guy named Derek Gatehouse. The only reason I ever found out about it is because I was interviewing somebody for a job and that person asked if I had ever read this book. Because I interviewed that way, I came to it by happenstance and luck over a long period of time. But the idea behind it is to ask questions in a way that are designed to bring out or show that they don't have the skills or talents that you're looking for. So if you identify that communication is one of the skills that you're looking for, you're not going to ask somebody, are you a good communicator?

Of course I'm going to say yes.

No, I'm not. No, I'm terrible.

I'm not going to admit to that.

But that's a leading question that they know the answer to. So they give you the answer they want that you want because they need to lie to you to get this great paying job. And that's another one of the people that you have that you interview is the person that lies to you on a consistent basis to get the job. So we got to put them in this comfortable situation, like you said. I wanted to expand on that a little bit. Never be across the desk I don't care if you got a bunch of stuff on it, big things behind you or anything. Just never be behind a desk. Be more in a setting like we are right here, where we're beside each other. Maybe it's in your conference room, your lounge, but even in a conference room, don't sit at the head of the table and make them sit on the other side or anything like that. Sit side by side with them where you can actually have a conversation, because you want to turn it from an interview to a conversation. You want to listen to understand during that conversation, you want to ask questions in a way that you start to get them talking more than you're talking, because then it starts to become really clear whether they have those skills and talents that you're looking for. Like, if I'm looking for the skill to be persuading, I might ask a question that said, hey, when was the last time you really wanted something? A lot.

Oh, you know, today I want this job.

Okay, so you wanted this job. Other than that, like, something not in a. Not in a get a job type of perspective, but you really wanted something. I don't know. Maybe it was a truck. Maybe it was a clothing. When you got your 2023 Silverado, okay, so what were your criteria that you were looking for whenever you were looking for that Silverado?

Oh, man. Had to have seat warmers in it had to be full four doors because I got two kids, so I needed to have space in the back for them. You know, it had to be all digital. Like, I didn't want any actual gauges in the vehicle whatsoever. Obviously Bluetooth and all that good stuff. And it had to be a white truck.

How did you convince. Are you married? Let me first. Okay. How did you convince your wife that you should get this 2023? So for.

It took about three years.

Okay, and so what did that look like?

It was just constantly showing her trucks that I wanted until she gave in.

Okay, so you were constantly showing her trucks. What did you learn through that process that finally got it to the point of her going, yes, I want to get the truck.

It's just being consistent. So she knew that it was something that I wanted, and it wasn't just some random thought that I had. It was over the course of time. She understood that I was willing to work for. For it and that I was actually saving money to get it. And I wasn't expecting us to pay for it, but I was willing to pay for it on my own.

So that last truck, what was the Key point.

The last what?

The last truck that you showed her, the one you got?

Yeah.

What was the key thing?

That I just drove it home on the test drive and said, look at this truck. Do you like it or not?

So you closed the deal.

I closed the deal.

So as I'm asking those questions, a couple things. First off, I noticed it took him a long time to persuade her. Now, that happens a lot with our significant others. Hardest person that we could ever sail. But there was certain skills that he was using. He was showing, he was demonstrating, he was doing some of the skills that I would be looking for in a salesperson. He was also lacking some of the skills. He was not communicating well. What it was that he wanted, he had to prove what it was that he wanted. And so that would be something I would have to teach him. And I would have to ask myself, do you want to take that amount of time to teach somebody how to communicate persuasion the way I need it to be communicated? Because communication is a skill that takes a long time to learn. And so I would be scoring a little lower on persuasion when it comes to sales. Now, you've worked here a little bit longer. You might be a little bit better.

Yeah.

That took little while persuading her, but that's how those questions would look. I kept digging until you told me a bit of a longer story and finished with the crescendo of how you got her to go with that last one. And each and every skill, I have three or four questions that identifies each one. Each and every talent, I have three or four questions that helps lead into figuring out, do you have that talent or not? And the entire time I'm listening for skills and talents, I'm not necessarily listening to your answer on the surface level. I'm listening to it deep. And that takes time to practice, time to gain that skill, time to get really good at it. Most of the people we coach on it don't do real well with it right off the bat. And we actually coach them to practice it with their staff and usually practice it with their crappiest person and practice it. And none of you have crappy people. I know that. But you're least qualified.

So the interview process, we also want to score that as well, and we want to remove that emotion by applying scores to it and then being able to think about this thing. I know that many of you will hire on the spot. You get excited, you get juiced up. You just had a great interaction with somebody. Maybe you feel like you made a new friend who knows, you had a great connection and you'll hire on the spot. You can take it for what it's worth. We don't really recommend doing that, only because if you want to remove emotion, you don't want to dismiss or accept somebody right after the experience of that emotion.

Well, there's another factor in that, too. You look desperate.

You also look desperate, and you might have other people that you interviewed that you felt the same way about yesterday.

Yeah.

So do you feel the same way about them now?

You might have two or three other people that you need to interview before you decide to hire somebody that might even be better.

So we want to take the time to think about that interaction. It could be a simple scorecard where you go, you know, ambition, drive, passion, community. You know, you list out the attributes you're looking for and the skills you're looking for and you just score them. As you think about your conversation with this person, here's the one thing you might find you might have really enjoyed that, enjoyed that conversation at that time with them. Just because you like them doesn't necessarily mean they'll make a great candidate simultaneously. Just because maybe you didn't feel like you clicked with them all that great, that doesn't mean that they wouldn't be a good candidate. Sometimes somebody who's willing to give you some pushback and frustrate you just a little bit might be the exact counterbalance you need in your business, because maybe nobody else in your business ever tells you no, and you need somebody to do that for you. So you got to take those emotions and score that person and think about that interaction and not look desperate to that person. And just take your time, take your time. Don't hire them on the spot. Okay. I don't know, probably 5% of you are going to take that advice, so thank you. 5%.

Well, what that does, that takes us from the hiring part, the sales part, and really, what's the close to the thing? Right?

Well, making it a big deal. So if you didn't hire them on the spot, the other advantage to that is, number one, you didn't look desperate. Which means that if they got the job, you specifically thought about it and you specifically, specifically selected them potentially over other candidates. And we have a chance for them to just sit on it and sweat about it. Because here's the thing, them walking away from that interaction gives them a chance to think as well. It gives them a chance to think as well. And you want that, because if they're all high on emotion and they accept that job and then they come back with a letdown from the high on that emotion. Then you deal with this weird caffeine crash of hiring, and you don't want that. You want them to be thinking about it. You want them to be thinking, am I going to get that job? Am I not going to get that job? Do I want that job? Do I not want that job? You want them to want the job, but if they don't want the job, you don't want to hire them. So keep that in mind. And then when it is time to give them the, hey, congrats, you won. Okay, Congratulations. You can make a big deal out of it.

So I want to just like in sales, there's a transition statement, right? Remember that transition statement from presentation to close, you have the exact same thing in hiring. If you've had a great conversation, you know whether this person is a single decider or there may be another party involved, right? And we do not have two people sitting in front of us. We have one person sitting in front of us. And there are other objections that might exist out there that we have not defeated at this point. So we might ask a question, something like, other than feedback with whoever it is that you're going to talk about with tonight, do you see this as a place that you could make a career? Yes, I do. Awesome. We'll get back with you on Friday or whatever day after we've done all of that of our interviews. So we didn't give them the job, but we have confirmation that they want the job. The next question I might ask is, what could you see upon presenting this to your partner, whoever that may be, the other interested party in your career as being a possible roadblock? So what you're doing is helping them defeat objections before they ever arise. You start to give them some of the answers they might give about some of the questions they might not have asked you, that once you spark that, they start thinking like that other person. I can remember one of the best interviews ever given to me. Somebody asked me that question and I went straight from thinking like, I think, how much money can I make? And all that other good stuff to, oh, wait a minute, yeah, she's going to ask when my first paycheck is. She's going to ask, how do I get paid? She's going to ask, do I have benefit? I hadn't even asked about benefits yet or anything like that. And I started thinking like her. And I was able to get the answers to those questions before I ever went back and spoke to her. And you got to really think about that because you're not just hiring one person. In most cases, you're usually hiring at least two.

And, Nathan, you said it beautifully the other day. Your spouse can make break or take half.

Yeah, exactly.

You know, so. But and as a business owner, you have to understand that about your employees as well. You've got to have buy in coming from, from them in order to make it work. But let's do a quick transition. We hire them, they're excited. Onboarding process. What is what does that look like?

We, we touched on this a little bit in the training thing.

Yeah, we touched a little because it.