Prepare Your Team to Rise to the Occasion

So what was the timing? Because I'm trying to think back now how long ago it was that I was there. But you had just come out of a surgery. You were just like. You weren't supposed to be at work at all. I was there to do some sales training. You had a hailstorm or something happen the same day. It was just all these things going on at one time. Do you remember when it was. Was.

It was 20, 22 or 21?

It was before that. It had to be 20, 21.

2021 then. Yeah, because I had my surgery. Right. Like in. It was in 21. It wasn't 21.

Yeah.

So it wasn't a year since I had my correct. Right.

And I was. I was. I was in awe. I was sitting there going, dude, this guy just had a heart put in, and he's, like, at work, and he's not supposed to be.

I was really fragile. I was just walking.

We could tell. And the thing I noticed, as much as anything else was your team, your team was. It's kind of like when you get forced into something, you rise to the occasion, right?

Yes.

It's what it struck me as with your team. So what it was. There was talent there, but they needed this opening for them to rise to the occasion. And now we don't suggest that anybody go get a heart transplant or anything like that to figure that out with their team, but would you say that that's a good thing for the team to create that type of situation where, hey, it's on you. You got to step up and do things, and is that a good suggestion, or would you say maybe not the way to go about things?

I think it. I think creating a succession, planning at first, having everything set up and then step back, you know, in a short period, you know, and then, you know, come in, you know, you're kind of there, and then step back for a longer period? That's what happened with. With our team, because it was through so many different surgeries. The first time, I was out, you know, but I was. I had my laptop, so I was able to ask. Answer questions. Right. It was the second time, you know, it was like, oh, he's in the hospital again, but we know what we're doing. They got more confidence. And then the, you know, the third time, it's like, oh, he's having, you know, another heart surgery. No big deal. By the fourth time, oh, he just had his heart transplanted this time, it's no big deal. He's got this.

We'll see him In a few weeks, he'll be right back on.

Yeah.

So there's something to learn from that. Like putting your team under the fire for a period of time to see what they rise to. That doesn't mean check out, right? Like, that's not, that's not the thing. We got to come back in and like, hey, coach. And then give advice where advice is needed. But if they don't go through the experience, they don't ever grow into that position. Would you agree with that?

Absolutely agree. Because sometimes I, I find myself grooming or training somebody and I put enough weight on them and their knees start to break. They just can't make it. No matter how much time I groom them, they're just something about them. They're not, you know, maybe they're not right for that position. So you need to make sure that you're, you know, weight test your, you know, your leaders or your team as you have out there.

Well, I see so many leaders that groom their team up. They're coaching them, they're teaching them, and they're like bringing them up. But. But they're always like a safety valve, right? There's a safety valve that you can rely on. And so they're empowered, but they're not autonomous. And that's a very different thing. And when you're autonomous, bad things happen. You gotta make some decisions. There's nobody there to give you a backup. And I see so many owners not do that with their teams, not let them actually fail, not let them. We call it the figure it out factor. Like, go through that part of it. Because that experience is so invaluable. Because now they know, hey, I messed up and I would do it this way differently next time or hot dang, I did that right. Good job, right? Yeah. That would be a big takeaway from our conversation today. Like, if you're sitting out there as an owner, if you're planning to get into a position where it's not running you every day and you're not in the day to day and you're not micromanaging, but you're macro managing. You gotta give your team the opportunity to rise to the occasion, cut them loose, let them know, like, set it up even. It's nice because you were able to go, hey, I got surgery coming up, see you later. I'm out of here. There's no if, ands or buts about it. And it's really like, I would imagine you were fairly cut off from any communication for a good bit of time.

I was in The ICU for sure. And, you know, especially during COVID I couldn't even, you know, one person in. That's it. So not see my kids. But I was. I was, I was cut off. But as soon as I was able to get my phone, I was back on. So.

Yeah, that's the owner right there, for sure. Yeah. Well, you're. You're thinking about the next thing, right? Like, that's, that's what you're thinking about, and that's the way most visionary A type owners think. So why don't you tell us a little bit about what are some of the next things for Shamrock? Because you have put in a lot of processes and systems and platform type stuff to run your business very effectively and efficiently. Where are you headed with things?

So Shamrock is number seven on 57 on the top 100 contract, you know, roofing contractors. And it's a platform now.

That's good.

Yeah. So trying to, Trying to, you know, break below 50 and grow as a platform. We are in 10 locations and we are looking to still continue to open new locations. But we're also, we open. We have a power partner program that we're looking to help other roofing contractors that are less than $10 million get on and grow using our, our. All of our processes of discounts, supplies and shingles and leads and marketing and everything else, as you know. So as well as acquire other. Other companies that are at least a 3 million or 3 to 2 million EBITDA so that we can bring on and, and create a platform and continue to support and grow throughout the Midwest and South Central.

Okay, so what does that look like from a. When you say the word platform? It can mean a lot of things that could mean like, I got a software platform or I've got these processes. What do you mean by that? Like, what are those, like, tangible benefits? Because if I'm running a roofing company and I'm doing, I don't know, two or three million bucks, I'm doing okay financially. Personally, if we run it halfway clean, what's my incentive? Why would I jump into something like that?

The freedom to do more. The freedom to make more. The freedom to have the economies of scale. I have friends of mine who I've helped, you know, they're doing 3 to 4 million and they're pulling their hair out. No life at all. You know, chasing the money, chasing, you know, everything else. Because 3 to 4 million, I mean, it's really not that much. It's. It's a lot for a lot of People, but it's not much for a lot of people. And so it's. But, but you are burning the candle at both ends, running with your hair on fire. And this gives you the ability to. Well the tangibles are the what you're saving in your material supplies when you're cutting a huge percentage, you know, off of what you're used to paying the labor, labor network of, of of crews for every single tile style of, of roofing system, residential or commercial, as well as, as the leads shamrock. You know, our website is so much butt weight. No matter what, we can be in the top 10 fairly quickly in no time. And I think a lot of contractors have been kind of late to the game on that. I came in from a technology background from Internet marketing when before E commerce was around you had to write in your checks and mail them off. And to be a part of these groups, I mean I was midork, right. So I have fun geeking out with this stuff. And so I've been working with the side of the business and so the leads aspect is one thing, the systems and processes is another.

I would think been there, done that part might be really valuable and it may not be just you like whatever others that you've acquired. It sounds like you are the guy that's figured out the whole marketing thing. I can generate leads all day long. That's not a big worry. And you've got other talents obviously. Right. But this guy over here might be really good at customer experience and service and performing the work. This guy over here might be really good at buying and getting the right prices and, and when you put all those pieces together, the sum of the parts is greater, you know, greater as a whole.

Absolutely.

And are you seeing any of that collaboration?

Absolutely. One firm we're looking at in Colorado, mainly commercial, but they, they're really good. And, and we do a lot of residential, maybe only 10% commercial. So that cross pollination, that training from within and we, we do a lot of commercial. There's not, you know, at all of them but it's great to learn from other people what works. And plus when you're in that many different markets, there's a lot of different things in different markets. A lot of nuances about, you know, codes. Everything. What's.

Yeah, like yeah, every market Colorado especially with the codes. Right. I'd say elevation this and elevation that. Right, right. So why, why do all like you got a pretty good company, you're generating pretty awesome. Why, why do the hey, merger acquisition, pro contractor aspect of Things or power contractor. Right. Why do this?

Great question. You know, I could sit on the beach and rot. You know, I've got two nice homes and couple boats and all that stuff. But that doesn't make me happy at all. In fact, it brought me less joy.

I.

They told me when I was having the heart transplant that I needed to have less stress in my life, go buy a boat and house. So I go buy a house and a boat, and I'm sitting on the lake, and I'm like, that seems more stressful.

I have both of those things. They're both stressful.

Yeah. And so I. What I find brings me joy is being with everybody I got to. When I get to go with the families of everybody that we're impacting and helping, that that's a reason why I do it, why I help with Shamrock. The reason why I want to continue to grow the level that we're doing is because the space needs it.

Right.

If you don't have a business person from an operator, roofing operator, helping grow the platform, and you just let all these other PE firms from outside of the industry that really don't know the industry, that aren't operators, you know, that think they know best business practices because they're sitting behind a desk looking at financial models. Bad things happen when. When an industry gets ran by that.

And so when you let the bean counters run it, you're in trouble.

Right? Right.

And so is the consumer, I think. I think the consumer is who pays the price on that whole deal.

Absolutely.

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