Presenting Like a PRO with Ryan Shantz

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Hey everybody, it's Jim Johnson here, your host on Contractor Radio and the head coach at Contractor Coach Pro. And we've got another amazing episode for you today. We're going to be talking about professionalizing your sales presentation and really your business overall. It's one of those things that'll help separate your business business from all the competition out there. We don't want to be the herd of cows, we want to be the bull. And so the best thing for us to do is to find ways to position ourselves in a unique way that creates value for our business so that we're not price selling, we're value selling, which allows us to be a little bit more profitable. I've got a special guest today who is amazing at this. As a matter of fact, he created a piece of software that helps with it. He has his own roofing company. I believe it's the largest roofing company in Calgary, Canada. And, well, Calgary Alp. We'll have to ask. I can't remember what province it's in. I think Alberta, but up there in that great white north and all that other good fun stuff. But we're going to bring him on in just a second right after we pay a few bills with our sponsor, signpost.

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Hey, welcome back everybody. Signpost. If you haven't checked them out yet, please do. Those guys do a great job of creating brand for you. You become recognizable, you communicate better with your customers which gives you more of that professional experience. This is what we're here to talk about today. Contractor Radio is all about giving you education, hopefully giving you a little bit of entertainment and the strateg and tactics you need to separate your business from everybody else out there. And we have an amazing rock star with us today. He is a guru of his roofing business. He is the master of presentations and proposals. Welcome aboard today, Ryan Schantz from Sumoquote.

Jim, thanks for having me man. Great to be here and that is a lot to live up to. I will do my best on this one. Man.

Well, I've. Ever since I've gotten to know you, I've been very impressed by your attention to detail, how you separate your business from the other businesses in your market and how you're starting to help contractors do the same thing. You're also one of the sponsors of our show, so thank you very much. We really appreciate that. And we look forward to long term relationship because we're very aligned in how we approach the contractor. And it's about them, not necessarily about us. If we do things the right way, we won't have to worry too much about our business. So I really appreciate that about you.

So it makes sense. It seems like there's been a lot of alignment for a long time. So yeah, good to be here.

So give us, give us a little background like catch us up to speed, like what brought it all the way to this Sumoquote. And I think that's what your responsibility is nowadays is sumoquote and running sumoquote, right?

That's right. Yeah. So I'm one of the partners on our roofing company and I ran sales there for years and I was on the tools back the day and everything else. One of the pieces. And I'm not even sure you know this about my history. After I was on the tools for a while, I knew I didn't want to be on the tools long term. Like, hats off to those guys. They do great work. But I went and I did some, some extra education stuff. I ended up buying a denim line, a blue jeans company and I. Yeah, yeah. I'm probably one of your first guests that's owned a denim line, I'm guessing.

Yeah, well, that's a Canada thing, right? Like they like. It's called the Canadian tuxedo. Like you know the whole thing, right?

That's right. Yeah, you know it.

So please tell me, please tell me that you supplied Aaron Rodgers with his whole outfit that he wore. I don't know if you saw that or not.

Sadly, no, I missed that. But I remember there was a, there was a musician named Mattis, Yahoo. I remember him wearing our stuff on the Jay Leno show. And we know we were in InStyle magazine and Elle and Vogue was pulling samples from us. And very. Most roofers don't think and talk about that stuff, but really that's the place where I fell in love with this concept of branding and how to have your brand stand out in a crowded space. And so when I sold that company and then I went back to my roots and joined this roofing company and bought in as a partner and everything. That's where it was sort of this, okay, I've lived this experience in fashion where, you know, you take a $2 T shirt and, you know, suddenly you throw a logo on it and it's worth $50. Right? And that's really the type of experience we were trying to create as a contractor was we were the largest in our space, as you. You had mentioned, but we had to compete with guys working out of the garage that didn't have our overhead and everything else, and we didn't want to compete on price. So we had to create this way to have our brand really. And the experience we're going to offer them really stand out at that sales level at that first touch point, because we knew we could give them the production and the post production, the warranty and all that stuff. So, yeah, that's where this really polished professional sales presentations piece came in. And it worked incredibly well. It helped grow our business like crazy. And we just had people commenting on it all the time.

So you got a roofing business like a lot of us, right? And you guys were pretty good size already, right? Like, you were one of the bigger contractors or were you smaller? What were you at the time where you said, hey, we got to start this new strategy?

Yeah, we were about. We were about 110, 120 employees at the time. So we're maybe 160, 170 now. And we had a good year last year. We. We do a ton of retail, but we also do a lot of insurance. And we had a big storm hit. So last year we were a little over 35 million in sales.

Wow, those are good numbers. Everybody likes that kind of number on their tag there. So you guys sit down and you say, hey, we're going to build this tool that's going to help our sales guys in the field present in a way that creates an experience for the homeowner strategically, if you approach it from that thought process. What made you guys go down that road? Was it just simply the separation from everybody else, or was there something else to it that you went, hey, this can give us an advantage?

Yeah, it was the advantage. Initially, our thinking was, how do we create really fast inspection reports? So we just wanted to. We wanted to grow in the multifamily space and our service department. So. And as we were going through that, we said, well, if we just throw, you know, a quote page on this and an authorization page, we can run all of our quotes through this. And really, it was the, you know, the fact that we were building 5,6000 reports a year in it, and our closing rates went up by 63%, it was like, the impact that that had. And then you just got these comments, right? So I remember giving a quote to property manager, and they were about an hour and a half north of us, and. And it was for $237,000. Full roof, partial siding, some metals. Right. And I called her a week later, said, hey, just want to check in. Obviously, we'd love to do the work. How are we looking there? She said, well, our local guy here, he's the best. We use him all the time. He came in at 207,000. But I really want you guys to win this, so feel free to tweak your numbers if you want to, but either way, I'm going to be pushing for you guys in front of the board. And I said, well, it's great, but I got to ask why? We've done one service call for you one time, you're raving about this other guy, and they're 15% less. Like, you know, why do you want to work with us on this? And she said, oh, man, I know it shouldn't matter, but holy smokes, that quote you gave me was just amazing. Like, I have a question. I turn the page, there's the answer. I just know I put the two quotes in front of the board, and they're going to be like, well, obviously, this is the more professional company. This is the one we should be working with. It'll just make my life easier if I'm just pushing for you from the start. Yeah.

And that applies to so much. Right. Like, you walk into the wine store and you're going to go buy some wine. I don't know about you, but the label kind of attracts me as much as anything else. Right. Like, it's kind of a cool label, and it's the kind of wine I want. And then there's that boring one over there that just, you know, it's brown and it's got some black writing on it. This one's all cool. It's got fire on it, and there's a skull and, like, all kinds of, like, I want that one. Right?

You buy different kind of wine than I do.

We've had all kinds. You know, they add some gold fleck to it, some gold foil. They do some things with their labeling that goes, hey, we have a premium product. And you'll notice that that wine isn't on the bottom shelf. It's up there on the top Shelf or maybe the second shelf down, but it's not on the bottom normally. And that's really what you're doing with this proposal is you're putting yourself in this top shelf position saying, hey, we are the best of the best. Would you agree with that?

Oh, yeah, I would totally agree. I mean, the number of comments we get when people start using our tool where it's, hey, I just gave this 80,000. My first quote was an $80,000 quote. I wanted to put a bit extra into it just to. Because I wanted to win this one. Right. And they gave it to the client and the client's comment back to them was, well, you're higher than everyone else. But they were, they were written on. One guy didn't even write anything, just emailed me a number. Two other guys just gave me a one page with a number and a couple of products. Yours actually explained the process, showed me some details of my home and photos that I wasn't aware of, explained the product that you were going to install and why it was better than other products, and then gave me options for the numbers and let me customize it quickly. Yeah, I mean, very often we hear the comment that, holy smokes, I gave it to, you know, my first three and I won two of the three or four of the first five. And yeah, it's great. You love hearing that because the impact it has on the decision maker, the homeowner who ultimately controls the dollars and cents in this whole project.

So let's talk about a little bit about why it's different. So the standard for most contractors, home services guys, is, and I'm making some assumptions here, I think it's improving over time. But the standard has been pretty much go out, do an inspection, take a three part carbon copy, maybe some spreadsheet, if you're lucky, a one page like contract. And when we write on there what we're going to do and how much we're going to do it for, I would say that's the standard. Would you agree with that?

Yep, you bet.

And so if we know that's the standard and we say, okay, that's who I'm competing against and I can do exactly what they're doing and then we're a commodity, right? Like, hey, he can do what he can do. So my choice is totally price. If instead I go out there and I say, all right, here's a cool cover page with a picture of your house on it, the details of your house and everything on it and you open it up and, and it starts to tell the rest of the story. What does that story look like? Like, how is it put together? What do you, what would you see kind of in order if you were using a sumo quote proposal?

Yeah. So I mean, the, the style that I often present in is, you know, the COVID page and you led into it because you've seen these before. So. But that cover page with the client's house on it, now it's intentional that their house is on there. Right. You get into the sales psychology side of things. This is a place where they've spent, you know, Thanksgivings and Christmases and they brought their firstborn kid home to or their new puppy. Like, this is a place with a lot of emotion and so that you're, you're starting to actually subtly target the subconscious. You know, the emotion that they feel towards their home. There's a bit of that going towards your quote as opposed to the sheet of paper that just has the roofing company's logo on it. They don't care about you. And a bunch of lines and a price. Like there's, there's no emotion there whatsoever. Right. So, so there's that intentional cover page. You can have a nice introduction page explaining the details of the job. You can put in any marketing page you want. One of the ones we use with our company, we call it how to Compare Contractors. And down the left side it's the. Here's all of the things that you should be looking at with the. As a, you know, to compare contractors to each other. And then on the top, here's Epic Roofing. And then here's, you know, your typical contractor out there. And of course, we heavyweight all of those things to the things that Epic has or is talented at or skilled at. Right. So we mentioned that we've done over 30,000 projects. We mentioned that we've, you know, how long we've been in business for that we give a lifetime workmanship warranty. We mentioned that we've got a full time safety director. And it suddenly calls into question why this other company doesn't have a full time safety director. Even though you don't need to, to be safe. We're large enough where we need to have a full time safety director. So it's kind of that concept, if you got it, flaunt it. Right?

Yeah. And you've done 30,000 projects. I wonder how many projects that guy's done. Because it doesn't say so anywhere.

Right, Exactly. And so you can put these marketing pages in, you can drag and drop in inspection Photos, mark them up. But so educate them. This is their home, the probably their most valuable possession. Educate them on things that they didn't know about it and how you're going to make sure it's done correctly or have the last person didn't do it correctly. Right. Seeing, seeding, sowing seeds that if you don't use me, this next contractor, if they're not mentioning this, they might do the same thing as this last guy where you had this big risk on there. Obviously quotes, you can do a good, better, best or a single quote kind of your style. However you play that out. There's optional upgrades. That's actually one thing on the insurance side. People almost never try to sell optional upgrades and it's the easiest money to take because it's, it's just sitting there as a conversation pace. Hey, here's some things we could talk about just to make sure that we're putting on the, you know, the level of roof that you want to have put on your most valuable asset here.

Yeah. We teach this concept like hey, what you got from the insurance company is really a good down payment or you can look at as getting that builder grade roof back on your house that they put on whenever you first got it. Or you look at this opportunity, opportunity like hey, I got this huge down payment, I want to take it to another level and pitch actually that most expensive crazy thing that you don't think you're going to sell. Metal, composite, stone coated steel, any of that kind of stuff, have that as one of the options. Then something in the middle and we call it better, best, fall back to the rest and so you show better and best. Yeah, those two don't work. Okay, well that thing with the insurance company works fine. We can do that.

Yeah.

But what we found is by pitching it that way, 40% of the people pick the best. That's 40% of the people that most contractors out there are missing that profit opportunity because they really don't have a way to present it other than I got some sample boards and here's the samples.

And that's where you need to have that sales coaching in there. I mean it's still important. Sumoquote is will, will increase your closing rates. It'll make things super fast and easy. But your salesperson, you still need to have trained to be able to walk the homeowner through all of those pieces. Now with, with Sumo Quote, the one thing that I kind of throw in there is you, ideally your salesperson is there every single time a homeowner signs a contract digitally or not, we all know that doesn't happen, right? So what is there 100 of the time when they're signing that contract is your quote. And so if they're looking at these three quotes, you know, later on that evening with their partner, you know, and they're. They're trying to figure it out. If there's one that is. It's using visually, it's communicating all the same language and components that your salesperson is trained to do, but it's got that visual part of it, and then these other two have no voice. You know, it's all about just a price, and it's all about just their brand. And that's it. That's where standing out at that point can. Can really be powerful.

So we were talking about before we got on, there was a time before contractor, coach, pro where I was pretty heavy into software and stuff like that, and, and my focus for software was selfish, to be honest with you. I wanted my sales guys, and I have a feeling this is kind of where you guys started, was one of my sales guys to have an advantage, number one. And number two, I wanted to make it easier to train them. In other words, I could train them faster so they could get up to speed quicker, so they could make money faster. The faster I could get them into the position of making money, the more likely they were to stay with us. And so we did a lot of things to accomplish that. We provided good sales training, we had a great training manual. But this piece of software that we created was a little bit similar to yours. Not as cool because it was way back when, but it sped up the process for them. And you could teach them the same. You could teach every single person the same exact way over and over again instead of, hey, this guy's doing it this way and that guy's doing it this way, and this guy over and the production department then has to figure out what the heck is going on. Right, and is that part of the strategy with Sumoquote2 is to make the training a little bit easier and more uniform so you can get people up to speed in your own business faster?

Yeah, that's exactly it. There's three key things that we talk about. Typically. The obvious one in my mind, because I come from sales, is like, well, you're just going to sell more. Like this is an obvious solution because you're just going to sell and win more work, whether it's more quotes and. Or also more upgrades. The second one is it's going to be Way faster. We've got a really cool integration we just did with Eagle View. Even if you don't use Eagle View, even though. And I mean, they're great, use something else. You can punch in your measurements quick, and basically you can build a 1012 page custom quote or proposal in 60 seconds or less from your phone or any device. So. So it's selling more, selling faster. But then the third one is that standardized growth. You as an administrator on the account, you can create these marketing pages. You know, the text on that introduction page, the quote details, items, but also how you want to market those items. You can, you can create and standardize and share all of those with your team. So your team, essentially, you add them as a user and they're set up and ready to go. Here's my five different standard reports. And I can hit a contingency agreement or a retail roofing, or retail, you know, or a commercial job or a siding job or service, whatever it is. But I can build these in minutes, and they feel very custom. So, yeah, that's standardization, and being able to scale off of that is massive.

So let's talk about that for a minute, and we're going to come right back, and I want to talk to you not so much about Sumo Code now, but a little bit more on the epic roofing side. Some of the things that you guys have done to add to what you do with the proposal, like the standardization of things is really important. I want to talk a little bit more about how you cool with that.

That sounds great.

All right, everybody, hang on for just a second, and we'll be right back with Ryan, and we're going to hear a little bit from one of our sponsors. We got to get those bills paid. And I'm going to do it for everybody today. So, guys, you're hanging out here with me and Ryan as we're talking about positioning your business as a professional entity. And one of our sponsors is actually Sumoquote, and the reason that they're a sponsor for us is we believe that it's one of the best tactics that you can use to gain more capacity fast. A lot of us are small contractors. We're trying to get things done quicker and faster so that we can create more time to work on the things that we're really great at. And so sitting down and writing big, long estimates and putting proposals together is very time consuming. And so if we can reduce the amount of time there, we can be a lot more efficient, which allows us time to work on our marketing, to Work on our processes, to work on our culture, to work on those things that allow us to grow our business, recruit more people, because I'm selling more. And so if you haven't tried Sumoquote, when we get to the end of the day, I'll ask Ryan how you get in contact with them. I'm sure they'll do a free demo with you, let you check it out and see how it works. But the thing I love most about Sumoquote is the fact that I can customize it to fit my company, to fit my brand, and to really show off what I might do unique and different from everybody else. So when you get done today, go check out Sumoquote. We'll drop a link down on the bottom, and we'll see if Ryan will do something special for everybody. I kind of put him on the spot right there, but we'll see what happens. All right, Ryan, I'll put you on the spot. Why? He had no idea. Oh, man. What'd you do to me? We'll talk about that when we get to the end today for listeners, if they're interested in Sumo Quote, what you guys might be able to do for them for taking the time out to listen to our podcast. But let's talk about Epic Roofing. Like, that's the unique thing about you guys. You're also a roofer, so you, like, know it inside and out, backwards and forwards. You do retail, you do storm, you do commercial, you do residential, you do service. Like, you do what all these guys are aspiring to do. I mean, you're doing 35 million. He didn't start there, right? Like, you started small like everybody else and grew over time. Was there ever a pinnacle moment? Like, hey, we were kind of small, and then we ramped up. Was there ever anything like that?

Yeah, there was. And I know it. More. I was. I came back to Epic Roofing. So I was shingling for Epic Roofing when it was just single crew, and, you know, the owners were right beside me, and we were going back in 2003, 2004 sort of thing, so. And then I came back and joined Epic roofing again in 2011. So that was. And at that point, they were about 80 employees, so. So we had lots of growth since then. But I know in 2008, we had started to get a series of storms, and we made the decision that rather than subcontracting through all these, we were going to go direct and we're going to start winning these ourselves. And that was a big move. And in Canada, It's a bit unique how we can do some of that, because at that time being a preferred contractor for an insurance company was gold. They would basically go to the homeowner. It was like a $500 deductible, which was nothing. They'd tell the homeowner, hey, look, if you're going to cash settle, you get 2/3, 60, 65, 70% of the cash. But if you go with our preferred, you know, we cover the full value, we give you a lifetime warranty on their work. So really they're just trying to push it towards the preferred. Now. Things have changed drastically in our region since then. Now it's probably $2,500 deductibles on average, significant depreciation. And pretty much as a standard now all of the depreciation is non recoverable. And so you can imagine you've got to try and adjust quickly when you go from this gravy train of insurance just handing you work to now trying to get in front of things. And, and that's part of where we had to figure out a lot on the sales side as well, to make sure that we were still leading the charge and growing, even though now we had a big building, we had lots of overhead, and there's a lot of risks that come with being a larger company as well.

Yeah. So the dynamic change and I foresee those things and they are already happening here in the States. If you're in Texas, you've got a 1 or 2% deductible. So you're looking anywhere from 2,000, $2,500 for a DED all the way up into eight $12,000, a lot more. What we call and what you described as ACV policy. So you get actual cash value, but you don't have any recoverable depreciation. So that storm world is a different world and it's constantly changing. And insurance companies to me are like casinos. The house is always gonna win and they're gonna position themselves in a way that they are never exposed. And so if we keep that in mind as contractors, that that kind of stuff is happening. We gotta get better at our game. They still have a damaged roof, they still need to get a roof. And so who are they gonna get it from? It's probably the company that's gonna be the best at sales, the one that can actually like separate themselves and close a deal instead of just, here's my estimate, call me back. Right, yeah.

And I'm gonna. The analogy I often use there is as contractors, we've Gotten a little lackadaisical, right? Like, we. We kind of look around and compare ourselves to all of our peers, and we're like, well, we're better than the. This roofing company down the street and better than that roofing company. And so. But we got to think now. The world around us is changing so fast. And our customers, the homeowners, they're not comparing us to our peers. They're comparing us to the experiences they're getting in other areas. So they're comparing us to Amazon. They're comparing us to the experience they get with their bank or even their grocery store. Like, you know, I got three boys between three and six in age, right? Like, last thing I want to do is spend an hour in a grocery store. That is. That is the worst thing you could possibly do. Whereas I can go online, make a few clicks, do my complete order, and. And really, my wife does it and she's gracious, and I go pick it up. But, like, I just drive up and call them and they walk it out to my vehicle and I drive away. Why? Like, these are the experiences that are. That technology can help create these days. And so as contractors, I think more and more we need to be looking at the technologies available to us and the ways that we can utilize and customize those to create experiences that are way more. Way more powerful and help you stand out compared to other contractors that are still trying to slug it out with printers in their truck and doing these other types of things.

Well, I was thinking as you were talking about your proposals and the ability to pull Eagle View in, you get these storm situations that happen, but those are becoming more and more retail situations, that there's just more opportunity than there was before because the storm has happened. So you still gotta be able to sell, right? And I'm going, you know, if I was a contractor today and there was a storm, people aren't big fans of door knockers. So here's how I know. My neighborhood a week ago got hit by hailstorm, which I'm like, this is great. Right? This is great. I can't wait. I'm excited for somebody to knock on my door. I can't wait to talk to him the whole bit, because it's my world. But we have a very active Facebook group. And so in the show today, I want to let people know that when things like this happen, that community, that neighborhood, that whoever, they're actively talking to each other. And so this storm hit at 1:30am it woke me up. Hails hitting all over the Place tornado warnings are going off. I have this warning go off on my phone, and, you know, 15, 20 minutes later, everything calms down. My first reaction, go out, check where the tornado is supposed to be, see if anybody needs any help. And so I ran did that, came back and checked the Facebook deal because everybody was already commenting on it right away during the storm. And one of the very first questions, anybody know a roofer? I was like, wow, that fast? Like, really? That was your first thought is like, hey, I need to get an inspection on my roof. And so their mindset is saying, hey, I know there's a problem. I know that we think about our roof. But then it was within a day or two. How many guys have knocked on your door? Man, I hate these door knockers. They're just all about it. Don't trust the door. And like, all that conversations happening on behind the scenes that the contractor doesn't hear or see or aware of. And I'm like, all right, so what you're telling me is I can create a proposal for a house I've never been to in my life in 60 seconds?

Yeah.

Why wouldn't I mail that proposal to every single home in that neighborhood? I really want to work. Yeah, there's some expense to it for sure. You got some costs, maybe it's two grand, 2,500 bucks. I'm going to spend that in marketing anyway. Time and gas and energy, and when I can just pop it all at one point and just that thing itself is my salesperson that's out there. They hop online with me. I say, hey, yeah, this is what it is. I already have your proposal done. It's ready to go. Which shingles do you want to. Those? All right, cool. We'll get the order put together and sign here digitally. Do you see much of that kind of stuff happening? Do you see any contractors kind of stepping into that world?

You know what I think? I think it would be fascinating to think about a roofing company and that type of scenario that you've got or sort of wherever the roofing is. I think what technology is allowing us to do is some really interesting things. So, honestly, this is what I think. And we don't do this with our roofing company to this degree yet. But think about it like this. I think it'd be fascinating to start a roofing company where you've done well in one location and now you start doing a bunch of targeted Facebook marketing to another geographic location. Right? So shout out to Joseph Hughes with Contractor Dynamics. Go work with Joe Start, you know, focusing on this other area. Now you start getting leads for that other area, right? So your website, you add that location, you start getting leads there. Now you order an Eagle View. Now with the Eagle View, now you create a quote. And now you can have an inside sales team that's running actual virtual meetings. And one of the things we launched with Sumoquote recently was our pro level where you could do there's full in home presentations that you can put together with videos and brochures and the customers inspection photos and all kinds of things right there on your tablet so that it's this sort of perfect dynamic presentation experience that you go through. But we also integrated essentially with Zoom where you can have full video, full audio, full screen share, chat, message boards, everything there and this entire virtual experience that you can create. I think it'd be fascinating because as roofing contractor, I think for me to expand geographically, I got to buy trucks and offices and hire people and try and manage them from afar and take risks on people and all of this stuff. But if I could do a local in house team that I've already got trained run things, virtually all I have to have is a single project manager on the ground, really just to check for a two layer tear, if it's insurance, to check damages, and then to audit the crew and make sure that the crew's workmanship is done correctly so that we can warranty it and everything else. But technology is giving us incredible ways that we can run our businesses differently. And now I think it's that time to start thinking about those and thinking about, even if it's one piece of what I just described, right, it's taking that one piece and leveraging that and then starting to grow. It's, it's not that everybody has to become these virtual sales companies, but, but there's some fascinating things you can use technology for that I think would be very interesting with that.

So literally while I'm talking to you, I'm making a purchase and what I'm purchasing and just make sure I purchase it first before I put this on a recording. Yep. So there we go. This would be interesting. Like everybody's gonna go, whoa, holy cow, I had this thought last night exactly along the lines and we're working with some contractors that are doing this type of thing. They're, they're expanding out around them through virtual sales processes. And okay, so I just purchased it. I purchased roofison.com and so like, hey, I can buy my roof through an Amazon type situation. I can pick out all my stuff, I want this and this and this. And there's my stuff. Right. And I'm always a bit hesitant to put that out there because I think like somebody's going to finally click to this and they're going to dominate, they're going to take over the whole world. Like Amazon's taking over the world of retail. But Walmart hasn't gone anywhere. You know, those guys are still in business. So is Home Depot and Lowe's and everybody else. But it's one of the things I've noticed is that it's the way I want to buy. Yeah, I really and truthfully don't want a sales guy in my house. Like the guy coming to my house and doing some big pitch on me and all that other good stuff. I'm like, eh, no thanks. So I gotta click the order button before anybody else jumps on it. It's not live, thankfully. So now somebody can buy that from me. It's for sale. I think this is where we're headed with things. I think this is the way people want to buy, the way they want to have the experience. And they're like, hey, I want to buy my landscaping hop online. Check you out. I got all my reviews and everything else. This is what I want you to do. They pick like, I want you to mow the yard, I want you to trim the hedges. This is what it costs. Okay? Buy. The guy just shows up and starts doing work. Like he made that choice. And I can see the same thing happening in our world. I really noticed it when you could buy a car online. Like I don't know if I would do. Like I can go a long ways on buying stuff online by car. Really. Like I kind of want to drive that thing. Right. But Carvana got it figured out. You don't like it, give it back to him. And that's kind of the thought processes. You don't like what the experience is. Like, we'll give you your money back. So it's going to take somebody with some big cojones to go, yeah, I can do that. But do you see it going this way? Do you think it'll end up there?