Solar For Contractors: Take Control of Your Business

Hey, I'm Jim Johnson, your host here with Contractor Radio, and I want to thank you for taking the time today to listen to our show. And our show is all about you helping you get control of your business so you can grow your business and find that personal and financial freedom you're after. So hang on tight. Episode about strive. Hey, everybody, it is Jim Johnson here, your host with Contractor Radio with another episode and this one's going to be awesome. I've been kind of waiting on this one to get this done. We've had to reschedule a couple of times. We both had conflicts with our schedule. And when it comes to solar, I've talked to a lot of people that act like they kind of know solar and what's going on. This is the first guy where both sides of the equation, the sales side of it, yes, very good. A lot of people can sell this stuff, but the install and how to run it in a business and those type of things. It was super interesting. I mean, shoot, it came out with a drone with a FLIR camera on it. And so we're going to have a guy here that understands both sides of the coin of solar. Hopefully we're going to talk a little bit about what some of the struggles were, maybe some of the things that contractors should be aware of whenever it comes to getting into solar, especially roofing contractors, because it's not necessarily a one to one contract relationship. Super excited about this and. And I'm not going to wait any longer. Like, we might as well just get him in here. This is the vice president of American Home Contractors and the brand manager for Infinity Home Solutions, one of the brand managers. There's several of them. Because we're going to talk about some private equity too. We can't miss that. Hey, David Silver. Good to see you again, brother.

Hey, nice to see you, Jim. Thanks.

Yeah, it was. Yeah, it was awesome. I got to hang out with you. We went out and put on some solar shingles, the powerhouse product from dow. And you were doing your investigative, like, research stuff and I was, I have to be honest with you, I was a little bit cautious. Like I don't know if we have everything where we needed to be just yet. But you were patient with us, you were interested in it. You actually helped us a lot in kind of understanding what we need to offer when it comes to those powerhouse shingles. So I just want to say thanks for coming out and hanging out with us.

Oh, yeah, it was a blast. Thanks for having me. And the weather was actually warm out in Minnesota.

So, yeah, it wasn't too bad. Like, we didn't have parkas on and ski outfits and stuff like that. It was. It was tolerable for that time of year. It is not so much that way right now. I think it was minus 20 this morning there. So there's a reason I moved away from that. So, vice president of American Home Contractors. And so why don't you just give us kind of background story of American Home Contractors, and then a little bit of that journey of, like, hey, this private equity thing came up. We wanted to be a part of Infinity Home Services. And so. So kind of walk us through just a little bit of that to let all the listeners know who you are and why I want to talk to you so badly.

Sure. So my partner, Steve Luszynski, he founded the company in 1986 and started off as a window company and then slowly entered into roofing in the 90s, and then in the 2000s, got involved with some storm work. Kept doing windows as well, siding, gutters, all the exteriors. In 2015, I sold my interest in a company that I owned, and I partnered up with Steve at American Home Contractors, and him and I continued growing the business. And In June of 2022, we actually sold the business to private equity. And that's how Infinity Home Services entered the group or entered the fold. And after we sold In June of 2022, we were the fifth acquisition. They acquired nine companies. The original private equity firm was North Branch Capital out of Chicago. After they acquired nine companies, they ended up selling us all. So we rolled to two larger private equity firms, Light Bay Capital and Freeman Spogli out of Los Angeles and New York. And now in 2024, now we are at 15 brands, and we just made an acquisition in Canada, so we're technically international.

Oh, wow. So did you say 2017 is when you joined up with Steve?

2015. 2015.

2015. So seven years later, we're, like, going to private equity and all that. What was it like whenever you first joined American Home Contractors? Was it a big operation, small operation? What did it look like?

It was a smaller company. We were doing about $3 million a year when I joined in 2015. And leading up to acquisition, we were closer to 20 million. So all because of you, Right? It was a great team. Right? You know, I. You know, I guess I was a spark plug and a catalyst. But no, it's really the team that. That helped us get there. But, you know, hiring great people, bringing great, great people as part of the company. You know, allowed us to continue growing. And, you know, we had a lot of growing pains. You know, when you're trying to grow that fast, you know, if you make any mis hires, it's definitely a, you know, a step back, but taking one step back to take two steps forward, you know, adding the right people. Now we have some of the most tremendous talent in the industry as part of our company, which is why we're so successful with Tesla Solar Roof and some of the other products that we're selling currently. It takes the best team to do that.

Yeah, tell me about it. Because I get to coach a lot of contractors, roofers in particular, and it seems like there's a group of folks out there that are constantly after roofers to install solar. Like, they seem so, like they go together so well that a roofer should be able to do solar. And is. Were you guys kind of approached that way whenever you first started to get into the solar thing, or did you do it a different way where you just said, hey, we're going to get a solar. We weren't really approached by anybody.

So GAF Energy approached us in 2017 when, with their product, the Decotech system, which was the integrated panel system, right? Just solar panels with a proprietary frame that gets flashed into the roof just like a skylight would. They approached us in 2017 to get certified. So we ended up getting certified with GAF Energy to install the Deco tech product. And then in 2018, our market got hit by a windstorm, and it was a severe windstorm. So every roofing contractor in our Market in the D.C. metro, Maryland, Virginia, D.C. pennsylvania areas were busy because of that windstorm that came through. So we didn't have any time, any bandwidth to focus on anything else except for taking care of all those people that had wind damage and issues with their roofs from that storm. So 2018 was a storm year, big surge year. We grew tremendously that year, tried to scale up as quickly as possible. We were trying to hire as many crews as possible, but, you know, there was a. Definitely a labor problem that year across the board for roofing contractors in our market. So we kind of took a break from it in 2018. In 2019, we started the conversations again. And towards the end of 2019, I actually had the Deco tech product installed on my house. And that was the first time when I bought my Tesla Model 3. So I got an electric vehicle and I started my journey towards renewables. So I had the solar system and I also got a powerwall battery installed as well. So. So GAF decotech solar system on my house. Powerwall battery. Tesla powerwall battery. And then the Tesla Model 3 electric vehicle. So that was at the end of 2019. And then in 2020, we got connected with Tesla for installing the Tesla solar roof product.

So just straight from a manufacturer, it's kind of different than what I see with most people. It's some solar machine out there that, you know, they tend to do the door knocking. They are what you call an EPC company. Engineering, procurement and construction, I think is what that stands for. And what they need is a bunch of little sales teams out there to sell products so they can go and do what they do. And they tend to make it sound easier than what it really is. And it seems like a lot of false promises and that kind of thing. I'm not trying to lump everybody. I'm sure there's a good EPC company out there. I just haven't found one that tends to work for any longevity. It might work for a short period of time, but it doesn't last real long. Did you ever get approached by any of those folks at all?

We did, but we view it as, you know, you can't just sell a product. You need to actually understand the product from the technical perspective. So when I got into the industry, I got into the roofing industry in 2002 after I graduated high school and I got into it through the installation side. A buddy of mine convinced me to hop on the roof with him that summer, do some side work, make some cash money, and I fell in love with it, you know, and then I actually worked full time when I went into college that fall, doing school, working full time roofing. But I came in through, like I said, the installation side. So I was very familiar with roofing, how to diagnose leaks, how to install shingles, how to install wood, Shakespeare learning all the various products. So we kind of took that approach with solar as well. I wanted to install the products on my house so I knew firsthand how the products go together. I understood all the nuance, what could go wrong, right from a service perspective. And then that translates into sales. You know, once you fully understand the product, then you can sell the product better. And now I actually have the Tesla solar roof on my house and I have the deco tech system on my shed. I'd moved it over from the house to the shed. And again, just living with that product, going through the app, seeing how it works, seeing how the production, the consumption, the charging, the discharging, all that behavior kind of plays out in the app, it creates for a better understanding of the product. Since I'm living with it and I can sell it so much better, and I can articulate that to homeowners. When we install a Tesla solar roof for somebody, they have a lot of questions. So I'm able to provide a lot of answers because I've lived through it. I lived through the, you know, the sales process, the design, the permitting, the interconnecting, you know, the installation and then post sale, you know, commissioning the system, going through the app, figuring out how things work, how the features, you know, what to look for, diagnosing problems. You know, I had a couple issues come up. You know, it happens. One of which was the utility company was actually sending high voltage to our house. So it was actually arc faulting our inverter and causing our solar system to malfunction, which wasn't a. It wasn't even a problem of Tesla's or ours, but, you know, nonetheless, it was a problem. So just living through those experiences, I'm much more aware of what can happen and what can go wrong. So, yeah, we're a big believer in, you know, being very involved with the products, and that's why I installed them in my house and I live with them every single day. Which, you know, helps me out with explaining it.

Is that a practice that you guys apply to, like, your production managers and people in production, like, hey, you need to install some of this stuff, you need to see what it is and how it works and all that? Do you actually incorporate that into your business too?

A lot of our team eats the dog food. Yeah. I mean, a lot of our team that own houses, they'll have products and services that we provide installed on their own houses, whether it's windows, roofing, siding, gutters, you know, all that kind of stuff. Couple people in the company own Tesla vehicles, so they're becoming more familiar with Tesla as a brand and as a company. And then, you know, from. From the solar standpoint, we have more. One of our main installers had solar installed on his house. So, yeah, it just helps when, you know, you're passionate enough about the product to actually install it on. On your own roof. And that's. That's a testament. You know, we want to provide the best products and services, and if they truly are the best, then we would want them on our own properties as well.

So I, I think the question for me, because you said you have the car, you have now two roofs, you have a power wall. Is there a personal side of that? That, you know, sustainability, alternative energy is it. There's something there at your core that you're going, hey, I think this is the way things are going, or you see some value in it, but explain a little bit of where that all comes from.

So, yeah, I do think that. I mean, it's. To me, it's pretty obvious at this point. Everything's being electrified. Cars are being electrified, heating is being electrified through electric heat pumps and geothermal, you know, so I see everything moving that way. So, yeah, I mean, to me, the writing was on the wall, so it was just a matter of when. What kind of early adopter are you? I didn't get Tesla's, you know, Tesla back in 2016, but I waited till 2019 when I felt the technology was built out enough, I was comfortable enough, I had the budget for it. So that's when I made the leap. And once you go to an electric vehicle, there's a lot of considerations you have to have, like, how am I going to charge this vehicle at home? You got to get an electric vehicle charger. And then, of course, you know, from a moral standpoint, you don't want to be charging your car from the dirty grid. You want to be charging it from clean solar on your house. So most people that go electric vehicle will eventually go solar if their house is a good fit for it, and then couple it with the battery so that you can go off grid and you become sustainable. So, yeah, it was a. Energy independence, I say, was a driving factor. It wasn't as much green. You know, I do believe in that. But energy independence, I think, is, you know, extremely important. And no matter where your politics lie, I think it's a good idea to be less dependent on the utility company and the grid moving forward. For sure.

Yeah, I would be one of those people. Here in Texas a couple years ago, everybody, like, even if you lived in the Northeast, you know, we had what we call Snowmageddon, like, everything shut down. We had no electricity. My house in particular is a very frustrating thing because it has one heat source that's it, and it's electrified. So I started looking into alternatives as well. I wasn't happy with a lot of the stuff that was out there. I sure didn't want to have rack and panel in my house. I know there's, you know, pros and cons to everything, but I just didn't like the look of it. I didn't like the mechanism of it. Like, there's. It's another thing on top of my roof instead of being part of my roof. So I started looking at different solar options and, and really the payback part of it wasn't as important to me as I thought it was going to be. I wanted this like 100% offset thing, but that's not always feasible. Based on your home and that kind of thing. I think ours is going to be about 80, 85% offset is what we can get. But that's clean energy. Like you use the words dirty and clean. And since you and I met, we did go out and get an electric vehicle, we went and got the Mustang Mach E gt. Oh my.

Oh, very cool.

That thing is awesome. It is lightning fast. It has a setting on it called unbridled. And it is unbridled. It's pretty cool. But now that's like, okay, I got the electric car and now I'm going to charge this thing. I went through the same thought process you did. Like, well, I'm just pump. I got this vehicle to be as conscious of the environment as I possibly can be. And now I'm over here like pulling energy from burning coal and whatever else is generating our, our grid energy. So that's my next step. I'm putting solar shingles on my own home, integrated into the system. I like the way that works. I like a lot of the technology there. I like the ease of it and the fact that a roofer can do it. Did those play into the factors of why you guys chose to go with the JF and Tesla is it was more like being a roofer. Now, I know, I believe you do rack and panel too, right?

We just got involved in that as well. Yes.

Okay. Because those options are options. Right. And there's price comparison differences. There's the amount of power that a panel can generate versus a shingle. All those things come into consideration that maybe it's right for this home and not for that home. And the more people you can qualify for it, the more chance you have of providing them with a product or service that fits. Is that why you guys have stepped into the rack and panel side of things too?

So we started from the roofing side because as roofers we, we're very much opposed to people penetrating a brand new roof with the rack systems, the solar panel rack systems.

Yeah. No roofer likes to see another hole in the roof.

No. And you know, back in the day when, you know, solar companies were trying to sign people up on lease agreements and just trying to gain mass adoption, they were installing a lot of solar panels on beat up roofs that needed to be replaced. And they just weren't very careful in installation practices. So a lot of them ended up leaking. So they, it made a bad name for the industry really, you know, and a lot of roof started hating solar panel companies because they were just damaging roofs left and right. And they were installing product on roofs that needed to be replaced either immediately or shortly thereafter. So our, you know, our, our thought process is we don't want to install solar on a roof that's going to need to be replaced within, you know, five or 10 years. So you know, once you go to replace your roof, the best time to think about solar is during that, that, that process, you know, so you're replacing your roof, you're going solar. If you can go with an integrated product like a solar roof, that's great. You know, it just depends on orientation, it depends on shading, it depends on your, your budget, depends on your layout of the roof. The mounting planes, right? And the various products like GAF's product is installed in a rectangular array. So you got to have the right roof space for it. Same with solar panels. The Tesla solar roof product, the smaller tiles, they can stagger around obstructions, they can stagger up, valleys, down hips. You know, it's, it's very versatile. You know, it can go around a lot of different things. And on certain roofs that are really cut up, you can actually get more production out of the Tesla solar roof than traditional panels. Not to mention when you put traditional panels, like you said, on a very cut up roof, aesthetically it doesn't look great. You know, most people would agree with that statement. You know, but when you have a beautifully integrated product like Tesla Solar roof, you can't tell where the solar begins and stops because it's all integrated into one roofing system and it's just beautiful. You know, when people walk by and see the house, they don't know what they're looking at really. They're like looking at, is that a slate roof? Is that, it looks like glass? What is that? And I tell them that's, that's a solar roof. You know, it actually produces clean electricity. So yeah, we came in through the roofing lens of we don't want to compromise the integrity of the roof. So we want to try to avoid panels as much as we can and we want to go with a solar roofing option. But for certain roof types and certain budgets, the panels do make a lot of sense. Now you got to make sure the roof is in good condition, right? You got to make sure that you're using good brackets and good fastening techniques so that you're not going to compromise the integrity of the roof, especially since it's going to be underneath the panels. But yeah, I mean, we would prefer an integrated solution like a solar roof as opposed to panels. It just depends on the budget, you know, because panels are still more powerful per square foot than the JF Timberline solar product. And even the Tesla solar roof product, even though that's much more comparable.

Yeah, that, you know, it has a lot to do with why I chose to get in on the distribution of the Powerhouse product.

I was going to say. Can we talk about that now? Is that a secret? Right?

No, it's not a secret. For those of you that don't know, I did join in with a company called Plan A Solar. We have the sole distribution rights for Powerhouse shingles, which were created by Dow, they're manufactured by Revere Plastics, and we're pumped about this product because you heard David mention, like, and I'm not knocking anything, I want to be really clear about that. But GAF has to be installed in a rectangle. So right roof, right situation, that works great. And the Tesla is like the whole roof and it's pretty expensive, to be honest with you. Like, if you really look at the expense of it. And what we liked about Powerhouse is it was able to be installed on angles, in triangles. You could cover a lot more roof surface space with it and be a little bit more budget friendly. It's not. I will be the first one to say it doesn't look like it's Hassler. If Tesla roofs are beautiful, I'm going to give them a lot of credit. But to be into a integrated solar shingle system versus a rack and panel and being approximately the same cost, I'd rather have that integrated shingle than I would the. The panel system. Now you had a chance to come look at it. What'd you think?

It's beautiful. It's beautiful. The installation was simple.

Yeah.

Yeah. It installs great. It's. It's. Yeah. I'm looking forward to getting it in our market as soon as we can get the pricing and as soon as we can get, you know, distribution figured out and access to the product, get a few sales under our belt. Yeah, we would definitely want to make that a, a product mix for our 2024 goals, for sure.

Well, that's kind of what we saw. We filled a gap. Right. I filled a gap between the expense of a Tesla roof, kind of this not so pretty rack and panel system and yeah, there's some competitors out there, but we have this flexibility of where the system goes and how it gets installed versus being in a rectangular shape. So there's a, there was a gap there. And anytime I see a gap in something that I think, hey, we could probably do it better than. I would like to go ahead and pursue that. So we have, we're getting everything ready. Distribution is pretty much squared away. We got that part kind of figured out, really. The, the manufacturing, how much of it. We have a whole community that's 750 houses that is going to install the whole entire thing in powerhouse shingle because they couldn't get it done with other choices that they had, which is pretty cool to see.

Jim, are you coupling that with batteries, installations?

And one of the very cool things about it is it doesn't matter what kind of battery you could use a Tesla battery if you want to, which I think Tesla's is probably the highest, most premium version of your powerwall type setups. But we're looking at a lot of different options on that. There's one by lion that's really pretty slick. So, yeah, we can distribute all of the products that go along with a solar install, whether that be your gateway systems, your batteries, solar shingles. We're going to stick with that one product because we believe in it that much. But it'll, it'll combine with any of your other choices out there.

That's great.

Yeah. I feel like I just got interviewed. So you got to put your eyes on, on a complete system out there. And he had a pretty high end, high tech system. You flew a drone over it with a FLIR camera. What were your assessments of that? I thought that was pretty cool. I didn't even know that was a thing. And you showed us how that worked. That was pretty cool. Yeah.

The infrared drones are really cool. Just to check out the production, make sure that there's no discolorations in the system. Everything should be a similar color. When you're looking at the different solar shingles and the arrays and the strings, they should all be lit up the same color. So if something's a different color or you can see some imperfections in the individual shingles or tiles, then, you know, something could be going on. It could be, you know, a diode, it could be the shingle itself. You know, if a whole string's out, it could be just a connection with the inverter or communication issue. So it's really nice from a maintenance standpoint and, you know, peace of mind, you know, when you go to commission the system, if you fly that infrared drone over top of the house, you can see and verify everything is being done correctly and being lit up at the end of the project. And then moving forward, if the homeowner has any questions about, hey, my. I think my production's a little off, or they have a hail storm or something happens that could question the integrity of the roof, then you can just take your drone out there, you can fly it over top, you can do the infrared imagery, and you can be able to determine if something may be going on or not. We actually had an incident where a homeowner's daughter shot a crossbow up in the air, and it went straight up, straight down and actually broke one of the tiles. And, you know, he didn't notice it for like a month or so, and he realized, hey, you know, something's a little, little off. So he looked out on his roof, he saw the tile looked a little damaged, took some photos, sent it to us. I went over, I flew the infrared drone, and I picked up on some hot spots on that tile, and I'm like, yeah, that. That. That arrow actually damaged the tile. It actually broke the tile. So we had to swap that tile out. And then afterwards, everything was. Was operating fine. But, yeah, the infrared drone definitely helps out. And people use as infrared drones on, like, solar fields. You know, instead of sending electricians out there with electrical equipment to test things, you could just fly a drone out there. And as long as the arrays and the panels and everything, the colors are all. All consistent, then you can assume that things are working properly.

And was. Was that a Tesla or GAF roof?

It was a Tesla roof.

Okay, so how simple? Because I don't know. This is a genuine. How simple is it to take a panel out and put another one in? Pretty simple.

Pretty simple. Yeah. It's just a matter of getting on the roof. And, you know, since it's a glass roof, it can be challenging to walk on, depending on the weather outside. And, you know, if it's in the early morning or it's dewy out, but getting on the roof carefully. Got to use ropes, obviously, but, yeah, getting up on the roof, swapping out tiles, doing minor maintenance and repairs is not a big deal.

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I remember that. I remember you telling me that they are great.

They were. They work awesome on asphalt, but they're amazing on metal, glass, all of it. I was really like, okay, these things are the real deal. I wouldn't say they're quite like, hey, I'm going to go on a 1212, like I would with a cougar paw and just be, you know, sans ropes. But I would never do that. But they were great. I was on a 1010 walking cross plane and no issues at all.

Oddly enough, the cougar paws, they don't really work great on the Tesla solar roof product or even the solar shingles from GAF either. They're actually.

Oh, yeah, that's like, that's like asking yourself to go off the roof if you're wearing something like that.

Yeah, yeah, they're slick. They hold on great to asphalt and some, you know, metal or, you know, some other roofing materials, but not glass.

These are like little rubber suction cups on the back of your, on the bottom of your boots. They're really good. You should check them out. I'll send you the link whenever we get out.

Please do.

I'll add it in the show notes too. I always like to give them a plug. They're the guys out of Scandinavia, Denmark, I think, and he created these boots for his own thing and they've kind of taken off, so it's been pretty cool.

Well, please do. We're always looking for ways to be safer up there on these solar roofing products. And we've, we found that like skate shoes and basketball shoes, you know, flat soles tend to be the, the best.

Everybody's out there wearing vans, huh? Yeah, yeah, Vans.

Under Armour basketball shoes, you know, racquetball, racquetball court.

Like the rubber sole, the kind of brown colored. Those work. Really, those are good products. What are some of the mistakes that you think are common from roofing companies that get into solar that you guys may have made that you're like, hey, you should maybe pay attention to these two or three things, like they could really save you a bunch of time.

So I do think that roofing contractors have to do the work. They have to understand the products, do the research, and make sure that their team internally can install the products. They're not just selling it like you, like you referenced earlier, if you're just a sales organization and you don't have the technical know how to install the products or maintain and service the products, then you can get into trouble because you're relying, you know, on that subcontractor or that third party to, you know, service the product and tell you what's going on. Like you need to know and make.

You look good or bad.

Exactly. You need to know exactly what's going on because there's a lot of parts and components. You know, you're introducing electricity to a roof, right. There's a lot of things that can go wrong, fire hazards, all that. So roofing contractors are really good at weatherization. Solar companies are good at making connections and installing solar. So you got to blend the two. So some of the mistakes early on that we made were, you know, I guess moving a little bit too quick when we should have paused and we should have done a little bit more research and made sure that we understood things a little bit more. But that's why that we installed it on our, on our own houses so that we could be living with the product and we could see firsthand how it works and what's going on with it and monitoring it and seeing, you know, throughout the seasons. You know, because the sun travels through the sky and it's lower in the winter and higher in the summer. So we have all sorts of questions from folks and we put together frequently asked questions on our YouTube channel to help address some of these major, major topics that people have questions on. But, you know, it's, it's nice to be able to understand why things are the way they are. Why is the production this way in October and it's different in June, while the sun's higher in June than it is in October. You know, the leaves are still in the trees in October and the sun's low, so you're getting, you know, it's a lot of shading. So you know what I mean? Like, just make sure you understand the product before you dive into it. And then also making sure you're ready for the investment. You know, when you're going into solar, it's not just a snap of the fingers. You know, you gotta make sure you do the online training and then try to get the electrical in house as soon as possible. So yeah, GAF Energy, they have electrical services that they're providing the contractors. But again, it's, you know, they understand how it works. The contractor doesn't really understand what works. So anytime the homeowner has a question, they just push it over to GS go, I don't know, I don't know what they're talking about. That's electrical, that's not roofing. So you got to understand the electrical, you got to understand the solar and obviously the roofing. And then once you can bring the electrical in house, you got to hire a master electrician, which is a lot of investment, a lot of time, a lot of money in the form of salaries. You got to get the licensing in the different jurisdictions that you are offering your products and services. But once we, once we brought the electrical in house, that's when it was truly a game changer because then we were less dependent on third parties and again, we understood and we could control the electrical portion of the overall solar roof project. Because once you install the roof, that's only part of the process, then you have to actually connect everything to the inverter, to the gateways, to the batteries. You can also do value add products like electric vehicle chargers, smart electrical panel upgrades like Span IO, so you can bolt on a lot of different things once you have the electrical in house and you're not beholden to some third party or some electrical partner that you have in the marketplace and working around their schedule. Because ideally you want to do the roof and you want to have the electricians either on site while the roof is being completed or shortly after, right?

Yeah, I don't have anything like those are the things that I saw as I watched contractors try to do this. And my advice for the last, I don't know, five, six years, as more and more contractors have gotten into solar and asking me about it as a coach, I'm like, you got to bring it in house, you got to know it inside and out, backwards and forwards with your own crews.